#i believe in s5 endgame PLEASE!!!!!

[bellamysgriffin]

get to know me meme >> Favorite Relationships [31/?] Steve Harrington & Nancy Wheeler (Stranger Things)

Remember the dream I told you about? About the Winnebago? Seeing the country with my six little nuggets? It's all true. Every last word. But I left one part out. It's the most important part. You're there. You've always been there.

[love-byers]

guys i believe in byler endgame but i have PTKD (post traumatic klance disorder) so it gets hard for me sometimes

every time i picture myself watching s5 suddenly im 14 feeling more disappointed than i've ever been in my life and my whole timeline is moping and cussing out dreamworks

duffers please don't do this to me

[glisten-inthedark]

Okay, I'm glad you asked about the monologue because I'm like 99% sure that Byler is endgame and the 1% is because of the monologue. When I first watched it, I immediately was like "oh it's so over for us". At first I was so shocked because after Vol 1 I was 200% sure that Byler was endgame. Then I was like "wow, guess all these things we noticed actually meant nothing and all this time Mike was just straight". I also thought it was really bad writing because the love at first sight thing made no sense with what we saw in season 1. After a few weeks I started to believe in Byler again, and I realized all the little things that didn't feel right, like the fact that Will was in shot during the first "I love you" (not even blurred in the background, just right there next to Mike! that's crazy!), that we had reaction shots of other characters, the ugly settings... Now, especially after Noah's answer at the con, I'm so sure that Byler is endgame because everything (else) points to it and I don't see how Will can have his main character moment and coming of age without getting a romance, but every time I rewatch the monologue I'm back to doubting. I just can't understand why the Duffers decided to write this if they knew Byler was the endgame, it doesn't make sense to me. I don't think Mike was lying, that would definitely make the audience hate him (even more than they already do), I think he absolutely believes he loves her and he does but not in a romantic way. But the thing is, I feel like it's too complicated to explain to the audience in S5. People who rooted for Mike and El would feel betrayed and I would understand. The only thing that makes me feel good in all this is the fact that Mike was only able to tell El he loves her after Will confessed his own feelings disguised as her's. But is it that simple? Will the answer be "oh, I only said that cause I was responding to Will's feelings!". Like, he talked about the yellow t-shirt and all, he was actually talking about El, not Will. Sorry for this weird ask, I guess I just needed to rant about this because I feel like I'm the only Byler shipper that has a problem with the monologue and I feel crazy sometimes lol. If you have any insight that would make me understand what you think the Duffers' vision was, please, I'll take it!

Hi there! How are you?

Firstly, I can totally understand why the monologue would leave you uncertain, it's totally normal and I think is something most Byler may have struggled with to some extent.

But I do want to broach a few things, so this answer might be all over the place, just a fair warning.

Firstly, about Mike telling El that he loves her: He does love her, of course, he does. But love can mean so many different things to so many different people. He wasn't lying, but he wasn't being completely honest either. I think there's a nuance there we can acknowledge that doesn't turn Mike into an ass - he was terrified that El was going to die and Will pushed him to say things he may not have truly meant the way he assumed El wanted them to mean.

And while we might not want to admit, that Mike did lie when he told El he loved her the moment he met her, we know that is not true and it shows us that if he believes he loves her, he doesn't understand what love is or he's forcing himself into believing that was what love was.

Why would the Duffers write that monologue if they knew Byler was going to be endgame, knowing that people who root for El and Mike would feel betrayed?

This is where I jump in with a question of my own to you (that you absolutely don't have to answer if you don't want to). But what were your thoughts when Mike told Will that choosing him was the best thing he ever did? (Without the knowledge you had from the next seasons. Your honest thoughts as the scene was playing out).

And if you look at that scene now and compare it to the scene where Mike tells El he loves her, what would you think?

"When we stumbled upon her in the woods. It wasn't fate, it wasn't destiny, it was dumb luck".

"You never say it! I say it."

"Eleven, you are being ridiculous!"

"I love you on your good days and on your bad days"

"The day we found in the woods"

The vines tightened and Eleven couldn't respond.

" I was alone and I saw in the swings, and you were alone too.

I asked you if you wanted to be my friend and you said yes.

You said yes.

It was the best thing I ever done"

Will looked at Mike and the trance was broken, allowing him to use Morse code to communicate.

Besides the obvious fact that Mike's speech didn't work on Eleven, there's one thing that I keep coming back to. Mike talks about meeting Eleven as happenstance, as something that just occurred to him when he was trying to find Will.

He talks about meeting Will as making a life-changing choice.

El - Accident.

Will - Choice.

But the thing is, both of these moments were random. On the sense that El was just standing in the woods, and Will just happened to be sitting on the swings.

He chooses to take El home and to help her, but he doesn't present the idea of meeting her as something he chose at all, but rather as something that just happened to him when both moments were things that happened to him, in a way.

But only one of these moments is treated as something that Mike chose, as an action he took and that had repercussions for the rest of his life and we have to ask ourselves why.

I don't know if the Duffers wrote it like that on purpose or if I'm grasping at straws, but it was something that always struck me as odd.

I don't necessarily think the audience will have a hard time understanding that he doesn't love El romantically, I think most people can acknowledge there are multiple ways of loving people, and I also think there's a discussion to be had about Mike assuming he has to love El - which is something people can intellectually understand if the writers know how to work with it.

Is the answer that simple? Did Mike only say it because he was responding to Will's feelings?

No. Mike said because El was dying and he thought he had to, he said it because he does love her - but not like that - he said because meeting El has changed his life and he does care about her, and because she represents hope and security because Mike has seen people he loves and cares about hurt and El represents the hope he needed to keep going.

Above all else, Mike's speech did not fix what was broken, El didn't tell Mike she loved him too, she didn't tell him she understood why he couldn't say it before.

And if we go a step further to look at how other couples relate to each other, we'll notice a pattern emerging.

I do believe that if the writers present Mike's trauma, his scars, and his fears, if they give us the vulnerability of what he fears might happen to him and the people he loves, most people will understand.

I can't say for certain why The Duffers chose to do this, but I do feel like they wanted us to compare Mike's speech to El to Mike's speech to Will. From a narrative standpoint to how it was shot, recorded, and edited.

They wanted us to see that Will was someone he chose, while El was just someone he stumbled upon.

[byler4vida]

The thing about these Mileven shippers is that I truly don't believe that they are delusional, that they truly believe with their whole heart that Mike and Eleven are gonna be endgame, I feel like they know deep down that Byler is the ship that's gonna be canon but they just don't want accept it so that's why they go on a freaking rampage that "Mileven is endgame", "Mike doesn't love Will, only El" etc, I don't think they genuinely believe that Microwave is gonna be Endgame, because ain't no way they are that stupid bro, I'm mean- the truth is in the pudding bro 😭😭😭🤣🤣 it's right in front of their God damn faces lol .

Also I wanted to talk about something else,

The fact that these Mileven shippers are sooooo passionate about a ship that doesn't exist and will literally go on rampage, insulting people etc, is actually very concerning, obviously I'm not saying that all Mileven shippers are like that, pretty sure there are ones that are actually sane and have a life that doesn't revolve around a ship. Like please get some help, go to therapy or something because this is so not normal behavior. I absolutely love Byler with my whole heart and it's literally my life but that doesn't mean that I'm extreme about it like these Milevens are, if Byler wasn't canon then yes, I would be sad but I would also move on, I would still ship them obviously but that doesn't mean that I'm gonna let that define my whole life yk. But If Byler doesn't become canon in S5, then it would be understandable if we went on rampage because that would mean that they've literally just queerbaited us and it would just make no sense, imagine how the people who are still in the closet would feel? To me, it's important and it's necessary for Byler to become endgame, it has to.

God damn I went on a whole rant 🤣🤣

[timetobeaghost]

Stranger Things Endgame ships

Jopper 110%

No happy ending without Jopper, not even a bittersweet one. Mom and dad.. Solid as a rock. Forevvva!!

Byler 100%

Might be under Jopper, but still a solid 100%. Iconic, legendary, best thing about the show. Will improve the rewatchability of the show by also 100%! Literally people will gasp when watching S1 after finishing S5. GASP!

Duzie 95%

They gave Dustin the perfect girlfriend. There is no reason to take her away.

Rockie 90%

Obviously happening, as promised in S4. I guess one of them could die, but not likely. Or they could kiss but somehow separate in the end? Very unlikely.

Lumax 85%

I wish they were higher, but I'm not fully convinced she is going to be okay? I really hope they are endgame and I believe so.

Jancy 48%

Could be endgame. I just don't know. It doesn't feel like the resolution of their arc? Jonathan wants to go to that one specific college and be free of his responsibilities, just live for himself for a while and thrive. Nancy feels like another responsibility to him to go to some other college and whatnot... Nancy wants to go to her specific college and pursue a career. What does Jonathan add to her dreams? Both were relieved not to see the other at Spring break even though they love each other, you know? Yeah, sry, I hope they are not endgame. (Better than Jonathan dying tho!!!)

Stancy 10%

I don't think so, as you can tell from the percentage, but I guess they could go crazy to be surprising or something. Please not! Steve deserves real love too and not "I guess you are not as dumb as back in the day and your chest is not bad at all"

Steddie 5%

I'm surprising myself, but I guess the possibility is above 0. No real reason why not. Sure Steve is straight and Eddie is dead, but would you bet a limb on either of those facts? It would be kinda unserious, so I strongly doubt.

Mileven 0%

But I secretly love them and they are canon, so they get a pic. Hope there will be lots of sad Mileven edits for my viewing pleasure post S5! They so cute! Lookatmypookies! Cuuute. And doomed.

[kiirotoao]

I keep getting asked what I’d like to see / theories for s5, so I’m listing them here!

(In blurb form because I have too many lol)

MORE. WILLEL. OR. DEATH. I’d particularly love some parallels from s1, maybe Will talking to El in the void or something? Because

Will has powers!! I’d love to see him have some kind of time/energy/electrical/celestial powers to mirror his Will the Wise persona

JOPPER WEDDING OR DEATH ALSO THIS IS A NON NEGOTIABLE DUFFERS

Robin being a BAMF and impressing Vickie or vice versa (I’m currently more sold on Robin being the BAMF because if switched that’s just Ronance. Which also. Ronance endgame please and thank you???)

Stonathan endgame or at least bonding. Can you tell that the CGI snippets made me insane

Flickergate duh

Pocketgate!!! And specifically Mike confessing to Will, Will thinking it’s too good to be true, then Mike pulling out the letter to prove it in dear desperation

Based on the “6 little nuggets” anecdote, I think Steve might unfortunately be toast because he has his dream with The Party, y’know

There will be a dragon of some sort based on Will’s painting? Maybe like Vecna, the Mind Flayer, and the demogorgons will combine into one big ugly creature to defeat? Dramatic but I have no idea

The spores might also be more lethal and infect people? Or maybe cause widespread hallucinations? They were everywhere in that finale and that cannot be healthy. Yes I know that Hopper and Dustin didn’t suffer any side effects of them in s2 but Vecna’s still alive so I think maybe they could become a new force

I believe in the Kas theory! But not for Eddie. I’m between Kas being Will, El, or Mike

I hope that Nancy doesn’t end up with anyone or it’s implied that she, Steve, and Jonathan, are happy being single for that time until they completely understand themselves and what they want

Vecna appearing in nightmares!! I’d love to see the subconscious come into play and it would serve to flesh out our main cast even more than they already are (especially Mike Wheeler and his internal gay crisis)

Jonathan, Mike, Lucas, Erica, and Murray in the Upside Down please!! They have never been that’s why, and no, I don’t count the tunnels in s2 because they didn’t flip upside down to enter those so I don’t think it was quite the Upside Down

Full and integrated Hopper-Byers family scene at the end of the season. Like them playing Monopoly or something or just existing together in the same house. Being happy. Please dear God.

Will coming out to his mom or Jonathan or Dustin or Lucas or anyone, really

EVERYBODY WANT TO RULE THE WORLD BY TEARS FOR FEARS preferably in the ending scene but anywhere would suffice and I’m not saying this just because I love this song but the lyrics literally fit so well I don’t think I’ll recover if his song isn’t in s5

A gate may exist at the library - it’s in the center of the earthquake and it’s where Will was taken in s1. I think Henry may want to destroy it because it contains so much information

I’d love a s2 parallel where Lucas talks to his dad again. Maybe about Max, maybe about all the stress, something. More sweet parent moments

Based off of the Byler fights in episodes 3 (s3) and 2 (s4), I think maybe they’ll fight again in s5e1?

And then resolve by s5e5

Wherein Heros (Bowie’s og version) will play when Mike and Will kiss

I just really really want Dustin being the lord of the demodogs. Like d’Art returns and recognizes Dustin and they help to fight against Vecna like fighting fire with fire it’d be so epic you see the vision right?

I’d love to see a return of Kali!! Either as a friend or villain recruited/controlled by Vecna it’d be pretty cool either way

Max lives. Period

[spicybylerpolls]

I think a big part of why the fandom has such a hard time grappling with the idea of Mike and Will having sex in S5 is that half or more of them doubt Byler will even happen at all. Even some of those that think it might happen aren't sure if they'll KISS, let alone have sex. There's even a portion who have a fear their entire relationship will be left up to the audience's interpretation!

I think the difference between that part of the fandom and here is that majority of the people who want a sex scene in S5 firmly believe Mike and Will are going to be endgame. Of course, that's just my assumption. So...

Do you have any doubt Mike and Will are going to end up together?

a) Yes

b) No

c) I did before but now I don't

d) See results

Please note that the purpose of this blog is not to be creepy or to make anyone uncomfortable. That's why I created the #spicy byler tag (I will tag all polls with this). If you don't want to see this blog or anything related to it on your feed, please block that tag. Not everyone is comfortable with this sorta stuff, and that's okay.

[in-deep]

If you could only pick one piece of Byler evidence to convince someone that Byler is endgame, what would you pick?

First off - I wrote this stream of consciousness style so please be kind aha.

I’ve been thinking a lot about this question and I think it’s simply the fact that if Mike is in fact straight, then what is his character arc?

Let me explain.

A lot of the GA view Mike as a glorified side character - sidelined after S2 to fulfil the role of El’s incompetent boyfriend whilst simultaneously leaving Will (his best friend) behind and treating him like a dick. The GA also view Mike as straight. For many GA viewers, the idea that Mike is gay/bi, let alone in love with Will, seems implausible and were it to happen, it would come out of nowhere.

Which leaves the question of: what is Mike’s character arc?

From this GA perspective, he doesn’t have one. He’s destined to make up with El in S5 and support her independence, and kindly turn Will down and go on with being besties like the supportive guy they remember him being in S1/S2. If anything, his character has regressed from the early seasons into a douchebag - a mouth breather. 

Not to mention that from this perspective, he has no real internal or external trauma to be unpacked. While this is obviously untrue as it has been made clear by the Duffer brothers and even within the show (Mike’s suicide attempt, Wheeler family discussion around his behaviour at school) that he is struggling with depression, that doesn’t seem to play into their predictions on his ending. If anything, many GA viewers don’t really view his character’s conclusion in S5 as something important because to them, (just to repeat my earlier point) he’s just a glorified side character.

Of course, if you watch the show carefully and focus on Mike, you’ll quickly realise that his character is dealing with a lot of the direct pressures of heteronormativity and internalised homophobia:

His family is your classic nuclear family, Nancy talks about the Wheeler family dynamic extensively in a heart-to-heart with Jonathan 

S1 has a lot of homophobia - all of it is about Will, but a lot of it is targeted and directed toward Mike

There are multiple times he is visually shown to come to realisations about his feelings toward El and Will, respectively. Now I won’t analyse those in this post because technically, none of the contents of those realisations have been made clear to the audience, it’s just my own interpretations. I’m sure this will come back in S5, though.

To show Mike’s queerness in S5 is not changing his sexuality, simply just revealing what has been shown to the audience the entire time. Stranger Things is brilliant at show vs. tell. They tell us something, and then show us something entirely different or even something that directly contradicts what we were told. Much of the GA don’t pick up on this (and tbf I don’t really expect them to, it’s intended to be subtle!).

To reveal concretely that Mike is queer and in love with Will would change everything. It would be shocking! The GA would lose their minds - and many people would, at first, struggle to believe it. But upon rewatching the show, it would all make sense. It would turn what many view as an unimportant character into one of the most well thought-out and planned queer stories in media history (definitely an exaggeration but bear with me aha, I’m not normal about these boys).

What people thought to be an incompetent boyfriend and an absolute dick to his best friend for two seasons in a row would turn out to actually be a deeply traumatised boy struggling to remain on the “normal” path (quote from Finn Wolfhard on Mike), within the bounds of heteronormativity. A boy who desperately wants to play DnD and Nintendo with his best friend, but realises that what he feels for him isn’t “normal”. It would reveal so much about Mike and all the things we never got to see from his perspective.

And in terms of my predictions, I’m absolutely a believer in Mike being Vecna’d, and we’ll finally see Mike’s point of view on all of this. Just imagine Vecna taunting him about how he failed to be normal. He failed to do the “right” thing. He’s been in love with Will since before he even realised it.

So yeah. Byler is real. Byler is endgame. And I’m 10000% certain that Mike is going to become an extremely popular character once we get his insight. He’ll also absolutely need a hug once all is said and done. I will be hysterical. 

But at least he’ll have his cleric <3.

A really good video on Mike's internalised homophobia that essentially sparked me to write this post in the first place, and I highly recommend if you haven't seen it yet, was this one (@lesbianmindflayer) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6IOlmBEEgE&t=80s&ab_channel=LesbianMindflayer

But yeah! What would you pick as your one piece of evidence?

[yellowjacketslesbian]

About Me

hey y’all! I figured it was time to finally make an intro post since I’ll be on here more often.

basic info:

nonbinary butch lesbian

they/them

late-20s

white

taurus ♉️

you may know me from twitter (VanistheOGlhb) where I can usually be found suffering from taivan brainrot, yelling into the void about how much I love Van Palmer, talking how much I love fictional butch lesbians, and going absolutely feral over any crumb of butch4butch in media. or, you may have read one of my taivan fics on ao3 (Van_Palmer_is_the_OG_lhb).

I’m mainly here for yellowjackets, taivan, and van palmer, but I’ll occasionally blog about other ships, characters, fandoms, and interests as well.

like:

all things liv hewson

aloto (jesslupe)

bly manor (damie)

butch4butch media (blue jean, etc.)

lesbian cinema

boygenius

hozier

all things butch

(I included more fandoms and interests in the “read more” section at the end of the post)

yellowjackets info:

faves: van, taissa, lottie, & nat

fave episodes: S1E7, S2E1, S1E9, S2E8, S2E5

main ship: taivan

side ships: parkinglot, lottai, parkinglottai, lottienat, mistynat, shaunanat

rare pairs: tainat, vannat

I’m a taivan endgame shipper

I personally believe taissa, van, and lottie will all survive through the series finale

I headcanon van as nonbinary (if you don’t hc it, that’s cool, but please be respectful of my and other people’s right to hc & write it)

I’m very protective of both van & taissa

I’m very protective of van’s canon butch identity

I joined the fandom on twitter in august 2022

fictional characters I relate to a bit too much:

Van Palmer (this one should be obvious)

Finley (tlw: genq)

Jo March (forever a nonbinary lesbian in my heart)

Kat Stratford (10 things I hate about you)

links:

ao3

twitter

instagram

letterboxd

serializd

more fandoms & interests

fave ships:

taivan

mariejordan (gen v)

damie (bly manor)

jesslupe (aloto)

jean/viv (blue jean)

emisue (dickinson)

kelly/yorkie (black mirror)

alice/dana (tlw)

alice/tasha (tlw)

raylla (mfs)

alex/steph (LiS: true colors)

pricefield (LiS)

deena/sam (fear street)

fave tv shows:

yellowjackets

black mirror (pre-S5 mainly)

bly manor

haunting of hill house

dickinson

a league of their own

the l word

tlw: genq (rip)

gilmore girls

feel good

fave movies:

blue jean (2022)

but I’m a cheerleader (1999)

jennifer’s body (2009)

10 things I hate about you (1999)

the incredibly true adventures of two girls in love (1995)

little women (2019)

the witch (2015)

bound (1996)

scream franchise

fear street trilogy (2021)

portrait of a lady on fire (2019)

across the universe (2007)

music:

boygenius

hozier

sleater-kinney

wallows

clairo

cage the elephant

pvris

tegan & sara

muna

mitski

the killers

smashing pumpkins

the cranberries

fletcher

yeah yeah yeahs

rina sawayama

radiohead

nirvana

[emblazons]

Hi! I started following you recently, i love your ST analysis posts 💙 some of them have made me believe more in Byler endgame (I'm one of those people who have been "hurt" too many times) and for that i thank you.

I just read your post where you talk about why Will was sidelined in s3 and it makes so much sense. Do you think they also used that sidelining to highlight how alienated he felt during the season? It wouldn't be the first time they get meta in the show itself.

This is so kind of you to say @izzymeadows! As someone who definitely walked into "byler analysis" as a skeptic, I'm glad to hear it. If me trying to parse out what's going on in this show helps someone else's understanding of it too, I've done my (proverbial) job!

Note: for everyone else, the post referred to in this ask is here.

To your question, though: I do think that the story itself made Will "fade into the background" as a sense that he himself feels that way because of how his friends are acting, in addition to how he's just now realizing he is gay (as he's been made fun of for all his life)—its why we get these little scenes too (ones focused on Will, iconically enough) showing us that he himself feels left behind—

—why he eventually comes to a point where he believes DnD (which are inherently/thematically tied to his relationship with Mike) and his ever-growing romantic feelings can't take precedence the way he once hoped they would—

—and why the theme of him pushing other people (see: Mike) into this painful new "maturity" (despite Mike not actually wanting a push toward "responsibility" OR El from Will) gets explored in S4—

—especially given how he both shrinks back in his hopes for relationship with Mike (even though they're still painful for him) until Mike himself says he wants it back...and even has a wardrobe that makes him "blend into the background" (I know people have done several analyses on this, so if you have one to link, please do).

Now: that isn't to say that Will is happy about any of this; he still wants to hold onto his "childish" interests and be openly in love with Mike in his heart of hearts—he just thinks those things are impossible, and so tries (and repeatedly fails lmao) to let them go.

So, to your point: yes, I think that Will being "pushed back" or "sidelined" in the story is a meta function of the narrative in that Will himself is pushing himself back in order to manage his own expectations, so as not to hurt himself believing he might get something the rain fight made him feel like he was foolish and/or immature for wanting.

Will moved back from the forefront of the story because HE believes that people don't get what they want and have to be forced to "grow up" and settle for things other than what they want (like much of the GA seems to think as well lmfao). Ironically enough though...the war between these things in Will (and Mike) is inherent to the themes The Duffers are exploring in the story—and given what we know about their value system...

...I'd put money on the fact that Will's defeatism is going to be 'proved wrong' as we conclude his "coming of age" and the story come S5.

I hope that answers your question! And thanks again for the vote of confidence (and the ask)! :)

[pholiabanna]

Confession time; i kinda hate the st writers. They are the reason why the pride was ruined during the vol2 waiting, the reason why we face constant homophobia from mlvns and the ga for shipping byler and all bc they refused to break up mlvn and also included that shit ass monologue. Now we have to wait years to see the conclusion meanwhile ppl gradualy start lose their interest. They ruined Nick's career and reputation for no reason when his site was there for years. The way they say nothing against the apparent fandom homophobia even though it is not even a secret since ppl sharw homophobic comments left and right. The way they use Will's car scene as a memeable moment even though many queer fans were devastated when the scene came out. The way they write these characters. The way they treate Will. The way they treated Robin. I have so much spite and hatred bottled in me and i am only starting to realize it after a year. If byler doesnt become canon i hope all st writers and the duffers lose their jobs and never manage to write ever again. I would even support Netlix going full bankrupt. My respect for the writers all depend on whether or not byler becomes canon and i dont care if it makes me stuck with byler or whatever. After everything the writers pulled, yes, my respect all depend on this choice for S5.

Honestly I see where you're coming from, so your feelings are completely valid. I do believe that the monologue and saving byler for the last season makes narrative sense because of the way they've written the story and how best friends to lovers stories usually work (they normally won't get together until the end of a movie, and you have to think of ST as a 5 season long movie).

I think most of those things you pointed out are more of a fandom problem, like Will crying in the van becoming a meme- I believe it was portrayed very seriously in the show and it was a certain sector of the audience who decided to memefy it. Also, the homophobia would happen even if byler became canon in season 4, sadly homophobes are everywhere in every fandom. I also believe a lot of those things you pointed out are more of Netflix's fault, because using Wills scene as a meme was something accounts like Netflix, Netflix geeked, Netflix UK and other did, but I don't recall strangerwriters doing that (but I may be wrong so please if I am let me know). Their executives were probably the ones who decided to split the season as well, and having vol 2 come out right after pride month (being a terrible coincidence because of the byler-Milkvan storyline and the homophobia that subsequently came from maloobans). If I remember correctly, the writers account has stated a couple times that everyone should be allowed to ship whoever they want. But as you pointed out, sometimes I feel like they could do a little bit more. They tanked Nick's reputation (which I can understand up to a certain point if they are trying to protect the show they are working on from getting spoiled, but maybe they should have made a less vague and incriminating statement), and they definitely could address the rampant homophobia in the fandom more frequently.

It sucks that we need to wait so many years to prove we were right, but think about how satisfying it will be once the season comes out and you watch all of those people have a breakdown, and hopefully you see interviews from the duffers explaining how that was the intention all along. If that's the case, then I'll be happy, but as you said, if all of these was for nothing and byler isn't endgame, I'll definitely consider it queerbaiting, because they have built up romantic feelings for Will on Mike's side, even if some people want to deny it. So yeah, queerbaiting in 2023 sucks, and it's totally valid for you to feel like you won't respect them anymore if they go that route. I think more people need to realize this is not a matter of whether the couple I like ends up together over the couple other people like, it's a matter of whether queer people get a respectful and deserved treatment or not. And if they don't, then they're terrible writers, because if the way they fucked up that storyline, and terrible people too.

But hopefully not. Right now, I'm really convinced byler is endgame and they know what they're doing. We have to deal with crazy Melvin stans meanwhile, but the wait will be over before you notice and they'll get really quiet and embarrassed once they realize how wrong they were. But I'd like for them to address some of the homophobic comments online a little bit more often.

[strangertheories]

“That’s what I mean by Byler superiority; you aren't better than other shippers because you realized Byler is canon. It's not canon yet. It is not guaranteed to be canon. Maybe they just watched it and came to a different conclusion?”

We have Byler superiority because Byler is superior, hope that helps. The clues are pretty explicit, so yes, Byler is guaranteed to be endgame. There’s no doubt. There’s no debate. The only way Byler isn’t endgame is if the writers suddenly stop following the storyline they’ve set up. If someone watches Stranger Things and comes to the conclusion that Moldy Bread is endgame, I WILL doubt their intelligence and their grasp of basic concepts. Byler and Mlvn are NOT equal. (Neither is gay MIke and bi Mike but many aren’t ready to hear that). Not all theories are equal. Some are wrong. And some are HARMFULLY wrong, cause they’re rooted in homophobia, heteronormativity, and bigotry. It is impossible to be a thoughtful analyst of the show and truly believe that Mike and El are endgame

I don't think Mileven shippers ship it because of bigotry? I'm very gay and love Byler but Mileven at the snow ball are cute, sorry not sorry. I do not think it's harmful to think that. Perhaps people watched the show and just... liked another ship?

You can of course believe the things that you believe but it's not canon yet. Say this after S5 and maybe I'll agree, but for now, everything is fair game. This is just really condescending and quite frankly rude. I bet you'd complain about Mileven shippers calling you delusuonal but then you say "moldy bread shippers" have poor intelligence and are rooted in bigotry.

I'm going to stop answering these asks now but just be nice to people, please? Even if you think they are stupid or have no media literacy. You can prove Byler without acting like "moldy bread" shippers are evil and making this fandom unwelcome. And I'm not even going to touch the Bi Mike comment.

[wheeler-fan]

Be honest please, your only reqsons to believe that Mileven will stay endgame is because deep down you are hoping that the Duffers will fix all their issues in one single season and because of the ily thing which yk even irl doesn't prive that you love someone. I think you're making the love triangle too easy to fix when it's defo not.

this is not my only reason!! look, i love Mike wheeler, and from my point of view he loves El, not Will. That's why i ship mileven, I'm not saying that it totally will be endgame bc i don't know that, a lot of things might happen so i guess we'll see in s5. But I won't ship byler basing on their dynamic which is better than the mileven one this season bc i don't see mike to be interested in something more than friendship with Will and i think that Will knows that, that's why it's so hard for him. I think the love triangle is complicated and for what 😭 the same with jancy and steve. Look, a lot of byler fans are comparing jancy to byler but i can compare jancy to mileven too. We have two love triangles- both have a wheeler in it (lmao😭), we can see that both ships (jancy, mileven) find it difficult to stay on a healthy way bc of the distance (i bet only suzie and dustin are good at it💀bc we can see that jancy mileven and byler had a problem with that) so, we have two relationship with some issues basing on communication, and then the third person showes up (will and steve) and in both situations they're in love with the wheeler one's lmao😭😭 but just because jancy and mileven have some problems doesn't actually mean they won't fix it, i truly believe that love can fix anything.

[areyoutheregoditsmejessica]

your post re canonbuddie stans ♥

you liking bucktaylor & megan west ♥♥

you liking bucktalia ♥♥♥

you not liking eddie ♥♥♥♥

you liking marisol ♥♥♥♥♥

your take on canonbuddie overall ♥♥♥♥♥♥

i agree with it all so wholeheartedly!!! buck and eddie literally feel like bros to me. yes, they are besties, and yes, buck has a very lovely bond with chris! but at every single point in the past 6 seasons that could have been used to give Hints to the audience that buck or eddie could ever be romantically involved with a man (or even each other), the show never took it. zero jealousy, zero hesitation to date somebody else, zero insecurity of their "family dynamic" changing when they date again, zero flirtation or appreciative looks or past experiences with men. buck and eddie are both so painfully heterosexual to this day that everybody who honestly thinks of buddie being a feasible option for a canon endgame couple is just delusional to me at this point. and i want to stress that this does not mean that people cannot enjoy and ship buddie to their hearts content! but i need people to fucking learn how to watch and comprehend a narrative realistically because things have gotten so extremely exhausting, even in the tags that are not even meant for buddie! it is everywhere, and i am so so so tired of it.

also, god, i am always so happy whenever i see somebody who enjoys buck and canon buck ships but also shares my disinterest in eddie dfjdsfk; i loved him sm in s2 but that love dwindled more with each new season, s4 and s5 eddie bored me to death. today, i am mostly just indifferent to him. i believe in marisol's power to make his scenes better lmao.

you have any wishes for bucktalia moving forward or some type of scene you'd like to see them in? i personally must see her in lingerie and/or in some really sexy outfit. i just want to stare at them being pretty and cute together, frankly speaking.

legit haven't gotten an anon ask in well over a decade hahaha so this was super neat to open the website and see <3

yes in s2, that character was one of the best male characters i had the pleasure of watching and that dwindled quickly, to the point i wish for the s1 118.

i don't wanna touch on the sexuality of anyone, even fictional characters but the writers have not gone out of their way in anyway to say they aren't straight and i think 7 seasons in, if it was in their plan it would've been done. it's a ryan murphy creation for goodness sake, if he wanted to he would've from ground zero.

i don't have much thought about them yet! they are very aesthetically pleasing. i just want them to stop having buck reinvent himself. we're on buck 345.0 at this point. (i love him and think oliver is GREAT at portraying him, but enough) i was really excited to see where buck and taylor could've gone especially given their history and how we had already been introduced to the audience and had a story independent of his. i also like how she wasn't falling at his feet and also in s4 when he basically used her and she called him out and told him he actually needed to treat her like a friend. why they just decided to take their story in the direction they did, i'll never know. they've written bathena AMAZINGLY and have done a wonderful job with madney, not sure why they aren't doing the same with buck. because after AB, PK, and JLH who came with an already established fanbase, buck/OS seems to be highly popular among the audience and deserves better writing. he was single majority of season 6, so i guess i can't say i wish he was single much longer. i hope natalia becomes a character we can invest in separately from buck. i'm pleased with what very little we've seen so far.

whoever, you are thank you for sending this! and here's to hoping we get season 7 by january 2024.

[timetobeaghost]

Breaking my silence

I guess fandom doesn't take leaker maire3xx on X too seriously. But I do, I buy it - like 72% buy it, who would want to be sure. People brought the counter argument that they said Lucas would die in S4, but they claim they just hinted hints about shit getting real in the Creel house, that was taken as Lucas dying. Which from the way they talk I can believe? Are there better counter arguments?

Here a summery go what they said for S5:

Byler endgame, it happens in E5

Before that there is a scene that WILL make us cry best described by the saddest Adele lyrics ever "Please, stay where you are, don't come any closer, don't try to change my mind, I'm being cruel to be kind. (O MY GAWD) I can not love you in the dark, it seems like we're oceans apart" And it's Mike -> Will, so get ready

Emotionality of the Byler arc is 10 out of 10

Emotionality of the Elmike arc, which they described as 💔 is 8/10, Scene on the rooftop is "very emotional!

Will gets so possessed, like they won't shut up about it. completely super constantly possessed. No powers but when possessed. Dangerous and veiny when possessed, which he so is. Like fr.

Vecna gets involved in the love triangle in that he wants to break it up. To isolate them.

Will in the bts pic is a spoiler because plot and time jump, we'll get it when we watch the show.

The Sinclairs move away and Lucas is not in Hawkins High to be bullied alongside Dustin and Mike. The Sinclair siblings insert themselves into the plot somehow using Erica's friend Tina. Lucas is then hyper focused on Max. Caleb has not filmed yet (or when they said this not so long ago)

Max is playing a large part in not the real world. Which might be for the best... Sadie has filmed one scene.

Eddie is back. Just is.

No conflict between Mike and either Dustin or Lucas, they're tight. And also have scenes with the 3 of them.

Stonathan BFF, Rockie is happening, duh. Lots of new interaction, half the cast at the barn and also radio station. (not Lucas tho) Everyone is closer to everyone.

El gets a happy ending.

Jonathan dies. No, he doesn't! Or does he? (I'm telling you they are sometimes playing, but dear god I hope Jonatan doesn't die.

Mike is in danger, his plot in 4 emojis: 🔻⚠️❤️🗡️

Wills arc in 4 emojis (he possessed) 👦🏻 👁️*hand I can't find*❤️ ( hand might say stop or be laid on someone's chest?)

Idk I can work with all that. Unless Jonathan dies, then I hate this show!

[chirpsythismorning]

You know what’s even more embarrassing than being a Byler truther post-Vol. 2??

Being a ‘the Duffer’s lied about forgetting Will’s birthday’ truther post-Vol 2…

Someone sedate me