#i am sooo sorry to op and all of my followers for this mess lmao

[lindwurmkai]

hmm. i'm sorry to hear it's such a common experience - i don't know if you saw my tag, but i avoided most problems relating to extended family by just not having an extended family, which had its own negative consequences but obviously none as severe.

i have mostly met two kinds of people with families like this: those where the parents themselves weren't any better, and those where the parents did cut off contact with the abusive relatives. i also know plenty of people my age who don't have children of their own and simply cut off contact for their own mental health. the idea that so many people would choose to or be forced by circumstances to endure it, even when children are in the picture, seemed unlikely to me but perhaps there really is a difference between countries here??

"I would rather teach my children to lie to everyone as a general rule of safety, and then teach them which individuals is safe to be honest around, than to have them have to experience what I and many of my friends have lived through without any sort of guidance on how you're expected to behave."

that is understandable. i think we have misunderstood each other slightly because to me, the scenario described above with the game very much resembles what i have perceived as a "lack of guidance on how you're expected to behave" in my own life - i would be presented with nonsensical and even contradictory rules ("lying is wrong" vs. "saying the truth in this particular situation is also wrong"), be reprimanded for objecting to or even questioning those rules, have eyes rolled at me if i expressed confusion etc.

the idea of yet another rule being introduced through a game without calling it what it was seemed manipulative to me in such an insidious way that i literally broke down sobbing after reading the post, just from imagining the long-term consequences as the child grows older. manipulation is the main form of abuse i have experienced, and at the same time i was constantly accused of lying. sometimes it feels like i spent my entire childhood trying to prove i wasn't lying 24/7. so if someone had started teaching me to lie in one particular situation through a game without thoroughly explaining that it was ok instead of a horrible offense for once, i think i would have simply exploded on the spot.

the way you've put it, it sounds like it would come with an explanation. that's fine! all i ever wanted was explanations and for adults to actually answer my questions instead of cheerfully ignoring me or telling me to "stop playing stupid" (more supposed lying).

i'm really sorry about this, and thank you for responding patiently. i don't know how to describe the difference between the scenarios we each imagined. your version sounded to me like parent and child united against the world as co-conspirators (sad that it's necessary, but a good solution), whereas the previous posts sounded like yet more bullshit cryptic instructions packaged as a fun game.

on reread, "we discussed how we would leave that part out for our more sensitive audiences" does suggest a certain amount of explanation and focus on the "sensitive audiences" as a problem to be dealt with. i was too taken aback by the concept of a child expressing their feelings being characterised as "the wrong answer" because that is what has been happening to me all my life - i express my feelings, it's the wrong answer. even as an adult it still happens in therapy. "no, your problem is the opposite of what you think it is."

like ... it's not the wrong answer. it's the relatives who are wrong. but apparently there is a whole shared culture of people who are so used to this that they accept it as a given and think everyone's on the same page about a certain percentage of extended family just being abusive by default, which is horrifying in a whole new way. if it's an US thing, i'm so sorry. i barely know anyone who's still in contact with their biological family tbh, so it's not like i thought abuse was rare, but?? well, they all left.

"Look at this video of a child disappointed at their expensive gift! Children are so spoiled these days!"

That's cool. So, why did their parents upload their small child being upset online? In a public video, shared to the entire video? Why did they even save the recording?

Like. The kid in that scenario could be saying the most entitled nonsense in the world, and if their parents post it online to be publicly shamed, I'd still support the kid 100%. Thinking your child's life is a toy to exploit freely for #content is "spoiled"; when faced with mommy vlogers, kids should be demanding three PS5s and a new Bugatti, and we should be applauding them for it