#i also hate that rook also makes choices for all the companions it's just such a strange way to approach the story narrative

[citrusai]

i think the problem w the solavellan interactions or specifically lavellan speaking w rook in veilguard is that we can only influence our inq through rooks dialogue options. had there been a way to play as the inquisitor even in a cutscene or a small chunk of the game and choose their stance and feelings it wouldn't have felt so bleh and sort of a "she would not say that" moment (to me at least bc gan'freya would def show up to whoop the evanuris LMAOOOO)

also it's weird because when we imported hawke into the keep you could choose her personality, veilguard doesn't give that option for inq which i found so strange? sorry my babygirl doesn't sit & mope around she likes stealing and also bullying her husband for his delusions of grandeur

[evillesbianvillain]

The thing with Veilguard, is that a lot of people who didn't like the videogame put all the blame on EA becuase the development was rushed and messy and some idiot had the idea to make it a multiplayer MOBA game or whatever the fuck it was going on and that can excuse some of the stuff going on in Veilguard:

everybody calling you Rook, a nickname a dwarf youve known for a month gave you, instead of your surname, especially ridicolous if you are a Grey Warden, you know, a member of a paramilitary order, and your boss calls you that. How certain factions, especially the Lords of Fortune but also the Mourn Watchers and Veil Jumpers are underdeveloped (but according to John Epler they decided to make less sidequests to focus better on a few of them and they ended up just being fetch quests or "kill these guys" for the most). Why you can't directly talk to your companions and ask them questions but have to stalk them through the lighthouse and hope they reveal something of themselves to your other companions (again, John Epler said this was a purpose choice they made and its a stupid one but I want to break a spear and say that it was probably because they didn't have the time to code or write every direct dialogue with Rook but I don't really know how these things work). Not being able to visit Minrathous.

But so much of it is an issue that started in the writing and developer room.

You cannot roleplay in the role playing game. Scratch the "there are not serious consequences of your action" part, we can file that under rushed development if we want to be nice. But you can only play as a nice, well meaning, always slightly sarcastic heroic Rook and that was a deliberate choice. You're basically only playing as purple Hawke. I don't want to play as purple Hawke. For an instance, I chose - obviously - the Grey Warden backstory (which I hated, all the backstories are the same, heroic Rook winning against a foe but disobeying orders and being punished by the mean higher ups) and when you do the mirror scene I chose the dialogue option that said "I have been impulsive when I saved that village and could've made things worse", but then when I'm talking to the first Warden and he reprimends me I can ONLY defend my actions and not agree with him or apologize for them. I wanted to play as a stern warden, respectful of the order and its authority, but the game doesn't let me do that.

The whitewashing of the narrative. Every faction (except the Grey Wardens) is super duper nice, they are all freedom fighters with XXI century politics. All the leaders of every faction believe you at face values about Super Evil Elven Gods and are willing to give you their help to slay them (except the Grey Wardens). All the factions are stripped of any nuance or of the infamous Bioware's grey morality (except the Grey Wardens, as the game, at any step, wants to reming you how stupidly secretive, kinda cultist-y and fucked up they are and how that is not a Good Thing). Especially annoying with the Crows, the local assassin's group of Antiva that is renowned for buying desinfranchised kids and torture them to make them the perfect assassins, and the Lords of Fortune, who are now the anti Indiana Jones of Thedas (but still tomb jackasses).

The whitewashing, or purposeful ignoring, of social conflict in Thedas. This game is set up partly in Tevinter and specifically in a district of Minrathous, but we not once encounter the slavery that the Imperium is built on, or racism against elves and qunari. And don't tell me "there are no slaves because Dock Town is a poor district of Minrathous", that is not how empires built on slave labour work, especially considering that Tevinter has always been based on the Roman Empire. Who do you think loads and unloads the cargo ships that dock there? You think slaves are only kept in the house and occasionally used for blood magic rituals? Not to mention that the faction for Dock Town is the Shadow Dragons, whos main work is freeing slaves, but not once we do a quest that revolves around that. And it's funny that they abandoned the entire issue with the mages and the Chantry "because we are in North Thedas" when the Chantry is a egemonical religion in Thedas. Zevran tells us that templars in Antiva guard mages like "jealous husbands", the Circle of Mages of Rivain was destroyed because they accused women there or summoning demons and the Anderfells are known for having the most pious followers of the Chantry in Thedas. I understand not making the mage issue a focus like it has been for the past three games, but to just dropt it like that is ridicolous. They didn't even do anything with the Tevinter Chantry and the Black Divine, something, I think, everybody was curious about. Ah but don't worry! We have the main dalish companion apologize 3000 times because the elves are at fault for everything going on in the world.

The characters are all shallow. There are very little important NPCs in this game and you can't directly talk to any of them if not during specific cutscenes during the story. John Epler (it's always him or Weekes lmao) said they wanted to avoid meaningless cameos but then they threw in the game characters from other games like Morrigan, Dorian, Isabela, Maevaris who was actually not from a game, but a comic, so I would've liked to know more about her, and doesn't let you interact in any way with them. Varric, for the love of god, there is no way for someone who is playing Dragon Age for the first time to give a shit about this guy. Who are these people. What do they want. Who are the leaders of these factions. The companions as well. You cannot talk to them but have to hope they will say something about themselves during random party banters in the Lighthouse and then they will have crafted cutscenes for the stupidest shit like Lucanis making Harding drink coffee. You know how some people dislike Varric, Garrus and Liara because the games want you to like them? This is what it feels with all the companions, and the forced found family is so on the nose it becomes unbearing. The romances are underwhelming, or so I am told by everyone. Davrin, who is in my opinion the best character in this game, has most of his character and quest revolving around a fucking rat with wings and all the stuff about his relationship with the dalish or wardens comes up in random party banters, again, instead of him telling me directly about it. The only relationship between companions that I found slightly compelling is between Davrin and Lucanis because they are the ONLY characters with an actual conflict going on, every other conflict is resolved immediately either by Rook stepping up and going "stop fightiiiiing why are you fightiiiiiing" or by the constrast being actually a misunderstanding, hey isn't it nice how every one of our companions are super duper nice guys who can do no wrong (like Bellara and Taash). Do you miss Mordin Solus? I know I do.

Connected to the characters issue, why the hell is the approval/disapproval system even a thing? It's impossible to lose approval from characters in this game, while they'll approve literally you standing in their vicinity. I've never worked SO HARD to try and lose approval with my companions, and it's impossible. Just, throw it away at this point, you have already implemented another system (the bond one) and are trying to work on a mass effect model, so atp just do that.

The villains oh my fucking god. This ties with the whitewashing of every good faction I have to ally with, as all the villains are super evil "bullies" with nothing else going on behind them. Maybe the only villain with something different going on is Isseiya, but all the others are faceless, corrupted evil hordes to be mowed down with Super Duper Evil leaders that have nothing going on if not a desire for Power and Conquest? Do you remember when Gereon Alexius was a desperate father who would've done everything to save his son from the Blight? Do you remember when Calpernia was an ex slave with a dream of revitalizing the Imperium by uplifting the slaves as citizens? Do you remember Meredith and the Arishok? Do you remember Loghain?? And like every side or personal quest villain/antagonist, the Evanuris are ONLY driven by power and power and power and they are so evil because they want power more power still power.

The missing/ignored plot threads. They hinted at us for years about the upcoming Tevinter/Qunari war and that went nowhere. What about the mentioned crisis/internal war/split between the Grey Wardens? Nothing. Where are Fen'hare's agents? Apparently they left Solas' side because he was a meanie and we know that because of a reddit AMA. The awakened darkspawns? Darkspawns now are officially a mindless horde and [insert GRRM piece on orc genocide] so don't worry about it.

They want a new slate in case they ever get to work on another Dragon Age in the future, and that's so obvious from certain narrative choice they made in the game, all happening far far away from us and that we know throw some fucking letters the Inquisitor sends to us and the most glaring one is the complete destruction of Southern Thedas, especially Ferelden.

The combat is... polarizing for me. On one hand, it is a mildly enjoyable action combat, and when you get over the heartbreak of never being able to build a mage like in Origins and having some tactic going on, it is fine, it is flashy enough to be enjoyable at least. But the enemy variety is terrible, the bosses are reused to hell and back and on top of that they are for the most normal enemies that are given a boss health bar (if i think about it, im pretty sure there is only one unique boss ive met so far, the archdemon, and it's such a pathetic boss fight)

The art direction. While I love, and I mean LOVE, the character design for your companions and whenever I look at them I get mad because such good design... wasted for these characters and this game. I do not like the art direction. I hate how everything has been scifi-ed, the eluvians now have rgb lights and they look like twitch streamers PCs or prothean artifacts, Bellara's magical gloves are fucking nanomachines and she literally works her magic like a mechanic. Not to mention the architecture and the neon signs in Dock Town. Most of the armors are ugly as hell and I want to talk with whoever designed the Lords of Fortune armors.

This scifi-cation carries out in the soundtrack as well, with a subpar score from Hans Zimmer.

I understand that it's not possible to work around every single choice made in the past three games, but some stuff is too important to just, leave it alone. Northern Thedas is still in Thedas and it's politically connected to it. Who the Divine is should be important, if my warden has died should matter, if Morrigan had a child should matter. They don't even make her mention the hero of ferelden EVER, whenever people talk about her they say she was a witch of the wilds and then worked with the Inquisition. ISN'T THERE A BIG GAP IN YOUR RESUME, MORRIGAN? Shouldn't a Grey Warden Blackwall be at Weisshaupt/Hossberg? But then, even the choices they have you make at the start regarding your Inquisitor are red herrings, the only thing the game cares about is wether your Lavellan romances Solas or not.

This game thinks we're stupid. I am constantly explained, over and over again what is going on. I am playing this game. I just saw the scene that has been recapped by Varric and then recapped by a text and then recapped by the characters chilling around a table commenting the scene. Not to mention all the time Rook and the companions say "We need to be in our best mind place to win this fight, we need to focus on ourselves, we need to think about ourselves first and then we can focus on the Evil Elven Gods" which is a little less on the nose way to say "do our personal quests". Insanely PG13 game.

Therapy speak.

And I think I'm done, at least for now. I have a lot of other issues but most of them are nitpicky and it's just me being annoying.

[butchvamp]

i already said it but it does really frustrate me how little agency Taash has and the more i think about it the more insidious it gets. again their entire story revolves around Rook making choices for them, and they're also consistently talked down to by other characters, even if those characters are depicted as being friendly or nice. Isabela treats them like a child despite Taash being a very accomplished dragon hunter with the lords (which we see, repeatedly, when fighting the blighted dragons! Taash is not a child), and of course there's their mother (at least this is intentional) and both her and Isabela go behind Taash's back to throw them in with Rook, without asking for their input. Isabela just assumes without even trying to discuss it with Taash separate from their mother, despite seemingly being aware of the two's strained relationship... and from there Isabela continues to make unnecessary comments to Taash whenever you visit the hall of valor with them.

even Flynn, the nonbinary grey warden you meet in the wetlands, condescends to them about the Qun when discussing their gender, and Taash isn't allowed to disagree with them (apparently they give Flynn a Look but ultimately don't press the issue) and Flynn is depicted as being helpful in this discussion. Rook lectures them about gender and their own culture; their entire narrative revolves around Other People telling them what to do and how to feel-- it's obviously meant to be Bad when Taash's mother does it, because she (the Qun) is oppressive, but otherwise the game seems to be fine when it's Rook or literally anyone else doing it, because we're the enlightened Good Guys, and Taash is just helpless and confused and so oppressed. of course, i don't think it's bad for Rook to discuss these things with Taash or give them gentle suggestions, and i don't even hate the potential gender discussion you can have with a trans Rook; and for the record, their mother does treat them poorly. but we can't ignore the way Taash's repeated infantilization culminates in the player being the one to choose their culture for them in the end, because..?

well, the game clearly doesn't think Taash is capable of doing it themselves. at one point Taash links the ropes they wear for the Qun to the ones the antaam used to tie down a dragon and "blight" them. even if i'm feeling gracious and say that Weekes really meant that womanhood & their mother's expectations are restricting, they actively chose to use the ropes of the Qun to make this comparison, and so are also implying here that their mother teaching them the Qun has tied them down and "blighted" them-- that the Qun has "infected" their thinking and is as bad as the blight (this is also implied in the previous discussion with Flynn). this is.... really racist. it takes Rook and their, again, "enlightened" (white) ideas about gender to get through to Taash, nevermind that the Qun has its own ideas around gender that just get shouted down or completely ignored. the racism here results in the narrative contradicting itself, considering one of the first things Taash says is "you don't get to tell me who i am" but... Rook does, in the end, because intentional or not the game is clearly convinced that a person like Taash needs someone from outside of their and their mother's culture (aka free of "blight") to come tell them what's best for them.... 🤔 hm! and while it's true you can choose for them to align with the qunari in the end, that doesn't mitigate all of the heinous and racist writing that leads up to that choice (and that the choice itself is racist. and you have to make it twice!)

of course we can say that Rook makes choices for all of the companions, this is true, but it's obvious that none of the other companions' choices are in the same ballpark, we aren't directly deciding something about their identity, and none of them lack agency to the same extent as Taash. we can even argue that they need Rook to explain gender to them, no one else ever has-- well, sure. the thing with Taash is that some parts of their story, when removed from context, are perfectly fine. i'm not criticizing the way Taash talks or acts or "does gender," all of which are things some people may connect to for various reasons (all of our experiences are different) but unfortunately we cannot discuss any of this without addressing the racism that is so thoroughly baked into every aspect of their character.

i criticized Taash for being "childlike" previously and that really wasn't the right phrasing-- i don't think that Taash themselves is childlike, it has nothing to do with them-- it's the way the narrative treats them, the way other characters talk down to them, how it takes away their autonomy & forces us to go along with it, and ultimately educate them and "save" them, and i think it's worth interrogating why Taash, of all the companions, is specifically depicted this way (it's racism).

[starlight-drive-in]

I'm in my feelings about THE Emmrich decision and the fact that over half of players chose it?! Disorganized sappy rambling below.

I had seen a spoiler after starting the game the Emmrich could become a lich before I had the quest in game (and before I had really gotten a feel for his character) so I wasn't surprised when he told me about the possibility and I wasn't necessarily opposed to it at first. It sounded - at surface level - pretty cool and like a solution to his fear of dying.

I was considering romancing him at this point and thought a romance with a lich sounded interesting enough, my Rook was a Mourn Watcher, so it made sense to me that this wouldn't bother her all that much. (At this point I didn't know it was a choice between that and Manfred)

But the more I thought about and the general trend of immortality corrupting a person, and thought how tragic it would be for Emmrich lose his joy for life, his childlike wonder, his kindness, or even how immortally would impact his capacity for love the more i strayed away from "letting" him do it.

Now include the fact that Manfred shows all that new potential right before he gets ripped away? How excited Emmrich was to hear Manfred talk? How he kneels down to Manfred's height to encourage new words from him right there in Hezenkoss's basement. It really clicked for me then that Manfred isn't just a friend or a assistant to Emmrich, no. That is his son.

As soon as Manfred is crushed, he immediately takes him to the lich lords, I think he knows they aren't going to let him have his cake and eat it too but he takes him straight there regardless. He doesn't teeter on the decision the way he's been teetering on the decision of Lichdom.

It's only when he considers "should" that he falters. He says something to the effect of, "What kind of Watcher would I be if I can't accept death?" In that moment it felt to me that he wasn't choosing between Manfred and Lichdom he was choosing between what he wanted and what he thinks he should do, who he thinks he should be and his duty to the Watchers. I wanted so badly to be able to say something like "Forget about the Watchers, what do YOU want?"

Post decision, Emmrich doesn't seem to have regrets about not becoming a lich? Sure he wonders what could have been but we don't hear about companions overhearing him mourning his lose of immortality, and Manfred seems to give him a new lease on life immediately. In the scene after we revive Manfred, Emmrich's literally so proud and happy? Plus he pretty much says "no regrets". I can understand that maybe people think Lich Emmrich is more inline with what he "should be" and that's the way to go, or maybe people just think lich's are cooler and skeletal sons... who knows. The stats just really surprised me given that you make that decision after the heartwarming scene of Manfred's first words.

After hearing some of the post-lich banters (that ripped my heart out), I want to know how many people re-loaded that decision, especially if they romanced him. But I also understand that TragedyTM has its own appeal.

I watched the romanced version of the lich scene and the scene itself has it's appeal (and a waaaaay earlier love confession than human Human Emmrich but it makes sense) but as for the rest of his existence, I prefer the happy family ending. What can I say?

I have waaaay more thoughts on this and the angst potential of the lich path but that's another post entirely.

If you read all this, you are amazing and I hope you have a wonderful day, or your day gets better if its going poorly.

P.S. if you chose Lichdom, absolutely no hate, you do you. I'm just a sap.

[utilitycaster]

The thing that I think gets me about Neve the most, and this is past the point where I personally am in the game, is that you can still romance her after you've chosen to prioritize Treviso (which you can't do for Lucanis if you do the reverse). The thing is, it makes sense. Neve judges you negatively for trusting her. There's a dialogue in the Shadow Dragons hideout where Tarquin (Shadow Dragons faction agent) gripes about The Viper (Shadow Dragons faction agent and leader) running background checks on him, before admitting he'd probably do the same. And the thing is, if you tell Tarquin that this seems reasonable he accepts it, but he seems irritated. Neve doesn't.

You meet Neve striking a pose, having frozen her assailants, needing none of your help. Neve does not, on the whole, ever seem to want your help until she begs you to save Minrathous. She approves of you taking her to interrupt the ritual, and seems to be entirely unbothered by the fact that it leaves her badly bruised - indeed, you have to actively choose to leave her behind later when you go looking for Bellara.

Neve loves Minrathous and Dock Town, which means she also hates them. She takes you there, if you do the companion quest, which you should. She invites you after Bellara fangirls out over some news pieces about her (Neve drily remarks they were hit pieces), to go pick up some leads and some serials Bellara wants. For all she's sarcastic, gruff, and even a little snide with Bellara (and with my playing of Rook, who is fairly direct and positive with the Veilguard companions) and doesn't believe a Tevinter serial would ever truly end happily if it were remotely realistic, she still wants to get those serials for her teammates. She's not here to make friends, though she's slowly doing so, but she also believes in working with your allies even when they're sunny and scatterbrained or bracingly positive and you're an exhausted, cynical detective.

Exhausted is I think the most salient point. Neve is fucking tired. She tells you she's lived in Dock Town her whole life, and she became a detective, taking on cases for people who weren't helped by the Templars (who, you learn in one of the core missions prior to your choice to save only one of Minrathous and Treviso, are corrupt all the way up to the top). After solving a missing person case successfully, with an implication that she freed a slave in the process, the Shadow Dragons recruited her, but she's been doing the same work she always done. And the Shadow Dragons, meanwhile, in addition to attempting, with limited success, to infiltrate the Magistrate and fight for abolitionism, also do a lot of work like Neve's: helping people on the street. Their basement is full of unhoused and hungry people with nowhere else to go.

Neve is tired because, I think, she doesn't really believe Minrathous will get much better in her lifetime. She tells you in her companion quest, as you eat street food on the docks, looking out into the ocean, that she treasures the small wins because that's what she gets. Whereas the Crows remember a free Treviso and fight for that, Neve, in particular, feels like she's just trying to keep things from getting worse, and maybe help a few people. She's cynical because dreaming big probably won't pan out and she knows it so she's not going to waste her time.

Her work is her life. Her gift is literally just more evidence. Harding, Lucanis, and Bellara all reminisce about friends and family, but Neve still hasn't yet. You get the sense that Rana, one of the few clean Templars with whom she works, is probably the person she'd put down as an emergency contact. She doesn't even really get along with Tarquin, though, to be fair, doesn't seem like anyone does. Her world is a network of people who are useful.

I'm going somewhere with this, and that's, unsurprisingly, to Critical Role Campaign 3, because after all that here's my thesis: Neve is what people want some of Bells Hells, but especially Ashton, to be.

I've seen defense of Ashton's abrasiveness because many leftists are abrasive people, and the thing is, that's not untrue, but they're abrasive because they're like Neve: they're doing endless difficult work with very little reward or thanks, and at most they get small wins.

What has Ashton done for their communities? The Nobodies and Krook House aren't feeding the hungry or fighting corruption; the former is a group of thieves with no particular cause and the latter a punk co-op house. What was Ashton doing for the people of Jrusar or Bassuras? I struggle to find anything tangible. There's a lot of talk and no action - punk aesthetics and a lot of talk about standing for the weak, but when do they actually do that? It's all very surface level, and so the defenses of Ashton must focus entirely on what and who they are (nb, disabled, punk, had a terrible childhood) and what they say but never, ever, what they do. It's posturing.

Neve? It's entirely what she does. She is, for what it's worth, disabled and queer (and played by a woman of color, though whether she's coded as such in-game probably requires an academic background in both the history of Thedas and the history of the real-world Black Sea region) but we don't know a damn thing about her childhood yet. We don't know if she's been hurt or heartbroken or abandoned until we, as Rook, have to decide whether to do that to her. And when we do? She takes her time (she's not back yet in my game) but in the end, she blames the actual root causes of the elven gods sending the dragon and blight, and the Venatori working with them and, as far as I know, gets back to work. As she always has.

[el-bellanaris]

The lack of treatment of Solas as a human being in Veilguard lowkey drives me wild. I didn't really think about it until after finishing the game but the Veilguard really just take over his house?? Rook is sleeping in his meditation room, the room he uses to spend time in the fade and where if you made certain choices is his place of connection to the Inquisitor. He does have a bed upstairs in his office but I personally see that room as his bedroom due to how accessible it is.

Regardless of the exact details, one of the first things we do is move our stuff in as Rook into his room. We're supposed to feel a sense of belonging to the Lighthouse as shown through how the companions will make their rooms into their own. Adding new decorations, turning an empty shell into a home. But how audacious of Rook, of us, to believe our cause so good and important that we can take some man's house because he is "bad."

And I understand the themes at play, Solas originally stole the Lighthouse from Elgar'nan and used it as his base for the rebels who fought against the Evanuris. So now it's time for a new generation to take on this mantle but there's a huge difference from taking a fort from a king who has a palace somewhere else and likely has multiple temples and places to live in then taking away the literal home of a man who has nowhere else.

Solas is a god in the thematic sense yes, he is powerful and revered by many out of fear but he is still a person. Becoming the self-declared heroes of the world does not grant one the freedom to literally rob a person of their house.

And now at the end of the game he's basically no longer welcome in his own home. Everyone in the Veilguard basically hates him and then squat in his house making it their home when they all have homes and just expect him to take it cos hes a "bad guy." I remember thinking how sweet it was that Neve started to think of the light house as her home, how she and other people would start to invite others over to have discussions showing how this is now where others know to reach them.

But the fact that none of them feel any remorse about it is crazy, especially coming from Neve, Bellara and a Dalish Rook. You have Neve who works with the Shadow Dragons, an organisation that is founded upon the beliefs of freeing slaves and wanting to work underground to help those who are being oppressed. And she takes the home of a man who has no where else to go? A man who has lost his entire world? The Dalish know about how the world has mistreated them and how much they've lost so why do they not feel any remorse for literally stealing someone's home.

I was also thinking about sad it is that my Inquisitor or generally any Inquisitor was never able to visit the Lighthouse in game but now all I can think about is how sad of an experience that would be for her. For my Inquisitor who loved Solas who has chased him down for years to stop him and is finally able to see into his heart, his mind more intimately through seeing where he lives and it's taken over by a group of people who hate him with such a passion that they barely see him as a person anymore. They all want to put him on trial for his crimes whilst sitting on their high horses inside of his house.

Back to my Inquisitor, she's been to Halamshiral, she knows the haunting feeling of walking through the halls of a place taken over by those who did not build it. She's walked the Emerald Groves and the Exalted Plains, she has seen the graves of her people overrun by humans who just desire power and war and want to burn the Elves from their history. To make the world think of them as savages to justify violence and destruction.

Now thinking about her walking through the halls of the Lighthouse that is so intrinsically Solas's and seeing it become the homes of other people would seem so gut wrenching. To hear them talk about his most wretched memories and dissect his thoughts just so they can figure out how everything is the way it is whilst also just taking everything from him. They're stripping him of his humanity for their own personal gain and it would seem so ignorant, so cruel. They take his table and remove his seat and then expect him to be live with it because they can blame the world's suffering on him.

We play as Rook, we are the hero of this story. The one who chose to step up and take down the last gods that remain in this world. But can we truly be good as Rook if we are just allowed to treat this guy like a stepping stone. To treat his entire life, the only things he can say he owns after a couple thousand years of his world decaying, as a means to an end with no remorse. How are we different from Solas who betrays Rook over and over when we just sleep in his bed, when we just steal from others to get to the "good" ending. Taking his Lighthouse was just an inconsiderate move not too dissimilar to how Solas will only consider his actions as a means to an end. But we're the good guys so it doesn't really matter right??

[pimsri]

Think I'm gonna have a place to note down stuff about my rook as I play through the game. Keeping track of new bits and pieces about them and what I changed (probably they'll change a lot as I play) Currently at the part where I now have all companions unlocked. Not sure how far into the story I am yet lol. Imma put them in this tumblr post (tumblr has unlimited text and allow image so it's just convenient lol)

Here's Cygnus Aldwir!

Can only choose 1 pronoun so I picked they/them but I imagine them to be he/they just like me :)

he's about mid-twenty, no older, I don't think.

Associated animal is the swan.

Background for now: orphaned Dalish. Picked up by another clan and raised by the clan’s mage who doesn't really want to raise him. Called him “little ugly duckling” and gave him the name Cygnus. Despite this, that mage tried his best to love and raise him. He left on his won, without telling anyone, after it turned out he's also a mage.

Introverted, laid-back, and shy, but very adventurous. Like excitement and danger. Would be the guy trying the most dangerous rides at the theme park! This is where their confident side shines!

Pursuits of adventure and excitement is part of the reason they left the clan. Joined the Veil Jumpers hoping to find a place they belong.

The thing about them is that they have a burst of energy, and then sleep like stone. This is very important: they're a sleepy boi. Love to nap and can fall asleep anywhere and in any situation.

I think they have ADHD.

Hobby is making tea. In their adventure, they likes to gather ingredients: leaves, shrooms, seeds and flowers to put in their tea.

I said that they're shy, but not that they have self-esteem issue. They have moments where they doubt themself, but not hate themself. More like being reserved and private. So sometimes they stutters and have awkward moments, but don't beat themself over it.

What they have issue on is probably being indecisive. To them, it's either taking decisions on impulse, or being so anxious about making choices that it impacts the situations itself.

As far as sexuality I think they're panromantic but more toward the demisexual spectrum.

[mollfie]

I took notes while playing and I've tried to edit them into something that makes a shred of sense.

Things I like in Veilguard:

Banter can be interrupted, and they'll continue talking. If you repeatedly interrupt, they'll start over from the beginning later on.

The banter also actually made me laugh, especially with certain companion combos. Not always but more often than not.

The companions aren't stuck in their room. You know when someone wants to talk to you or has a cutscene, but you'll also see them hanging out with other companions or just checking out places around the Lighthouse. Makes them feel like actual people with their own stuff going on outside of Rook. But I do wish you could talk to them more. I like bothering my companions. I'm fine with them repeating themselves. Just let me smooch my love interest or chat with my friends and get random flavour text. Is that so much to ask?

I like the orb and smashing enemies in the face with it. I actually prefer it most of the time to using the staff.

Can wear casual clothes instead of armour with no repercussions. Finally, some cute outfits. But not cute enough. Need more. I also miss dying outfits in different colours and dressing up my team.

It's not my fav but it's fine:

I miss being able to smooch my love interest whenever I wanted to. Let me bother everyone more. The romances are fine but I expected more in comparison to previous games.

Everyone hangs out with each other or all together (eat together, bookclub etc) but is Rook even involved? The camping trip scene was so weird. Ferelden is overrun. Where are you going? Why would these two even want to? I could maybe believe Taash being interested because they're adventurous and might be hoping to see a dragon, but even then it's so weird.

Semi related to Taash's personal storyline, I did not appreciate having words put in my Rook's mouth re: her feelings about her gender and I have seen others saying that when they play as an enby Rook it's very "third gender" rather than having any sort of nuance. This is why I'm always hesitant when companies are so proud of being inclusive, it's often so clumsy.

References:

Mage/Templar war was in the South but no one mentions really mentions much about the South. Varric?? Morrigan?? Inquisitor?? There are some letters and a few lines about what's happening but not much. Who got to be Divine, again more of a Southern issue but you think it would come up when talking to Harding or Varric. Drinking from the Well of Sorrrows. Morrigan's son. King Alistair or Grey Warden. Hawke in the Fade. Varric, my man, are we not friends? Harding, you were there even if you were just a scout! Surely you got the hot goss hanging around outside the tavern at all hours.

Surely even people in Tevinter would be talking about how the Inquisitor's old spymaster became the Divine?? Harding sort of mentions it but no one else. The Inquisitor coming along to be like "oh it's a shitshow in the South right now that's why I'm not helping you or trying to find Solas" is so stupid.

The references you do get are fine but some feel strange because they're specific enough for a fan to get them but vague enough to feel pointless because they abandoned the Keep and tracking everyone's choices. I know it's complicated because we've all played the games in a variety of ways but they started it!

I wish we had seen more of the countries. I liked the places we saw and I really enjoyed exploring them, I would have liked to see more though which is a good thing in a way? I wasn't bored by the places we got, more than they were intriguing and I wished to go further. I would have liked to see more of Minrathos outside of Dock Town, for example.

Cameos:

Re: cameos. Dorian's model looks like he got bad cosmetic surgery and veneers. What did they do to you?? However, I also hate how Alistairs looks in Inquisition so maybe I just don't like when they try to update old characters? Morrigan looks fine, but her outfit is ugly. Isabela is fine. Varric and Harding look good.

Are we unable to have cameos of characters (or references), such as Merrill, because the team are blood magic flip-floppers? She knew so much about Eluvians, blood magic, Dalish nonsense etc. She would have been a fantastic edition to the team in Inquistion and in Veilguard but apparently I can't have anything nice.

Romances:

The romances are good but once I picked my person it was weird seeing how Lucanis switched to Neve almost instantly AND how their chemistry was so much better just through banter and listening to their chats. Almost like that's what the writers intended originally and then made Rook an option later? Davrin has a sweet romance and I have heard good things about Emmerich.

Companions:

Still think I should be able to have three people tag along. Yes, it makes them just talk to each other for banter but I liked having three people.

I wish they would bicker more. Some characters are supposed to not like each other (at least for a while) but they really could have leaned into that more. Be meaner. However, saying that some fans couldn't handle Vivienne...

My main issue with all the companions is that they're really good but don't get the chance to be great. I'm assuming because of development issues. Any decent writer would want to make the most of a character. You can see what they wanted to do and what they managed is good. I feel like the writers pulled their punches too much. They could have really leaned into some ideas and expanded on some aspects so much more but didn't. They all needed an extra ten minutes to fully bake.

Taash's personal stuff is fine. It's a little awkward in places but it's nowhere near as awful as people are making it out to be. It's no worse than anyone else's personal storyline or dialogue. A lot of the criticism is over-dramatic HOWEVER I do feel like their struggles were more with their upbringing as the daughter of a strict mother (who says herself that she was never supposed to have that sort of role within the Qun) in Rivain and those two identities cause conflict, and that was really overshadowed. A lot of Taash's struggles with gender make sense when you consider how gender roles function under the Qun (how their mother would have raised them) versus how they are in Rivaini society (what she was exposed to outside of the home). That's not to say they aren't nonbinary otherwise, just that the conflict could have been woven together better.

I also didn't really like the binary choices you were presented with - why do I, a stranger, get to tell any of these people what to do with their lives? I think Rook can have an opinion but there should be a third option for the character to make their own choice, perhaps based on their approval level with you or something to at least feign free will. This felt particularly insensitive when talking to Taash.

I also think some people are forgetting or deliberately ignoring that Taash is not the only lgbt or nonbinary character in the game or the series as a whole.

But, I do also think there are awkward moments (for all the characters too) where I understand what the team was going for but it doesn't quite land right. I would have actually liked a little more focus on what it's like being a qunari in Rivain etc.

Lucanis is supposed to be a big scary mage-killing demon-possessed assassin but once you recruit him he's practically shuffling about in his fuzzy slippers making coffee at 4am. I really like him but I can't help but wish they hadn't sanded down the edges. Having the Crows fight for the little guys is certainly a choice. I would have preferred them go down more of a "these Crows in this particular family think this way" so as not to undermine everything about Zevran.

Other thoughts:

It feels like the backgrounds don't really matter, they're not referenced much anyway. I was a veil jumper so you'd think Bellara would want to chat to me about that sort of thing more but no, not really. Same with race choices. It does come up but not as much as I had hoped. I also miss the tension between races, backgrounds etc. Why am I, a Dalish elf, wandering around Minrathos unchallenged?

Where's Meredith??? We had that final shot in the animated series but that's it???

What happened to Solas' agents and the uprising? I know years have passed but you'd think there's been more turmoil considering 1. the gods are real and 2. they suck

TL;DR

I had a great time playing, and it was really fun. I actually really enjoyed the finale and the game overall. But, I am concerned that this was essentially a soft reboot and so now what? What about everything we did before? What about all those other characters we cared about?

I also think I got lucky by choosing to have my Solavellan Inquisitor and romancing Davrin, just judging my chatter online.

I think if they didn't want those choices to matter then they should have had this game hav a protagonist who has no connection to Southern Thedas at all. No Varric or Harding. Have them being a literal nobody who doesn't know anything about what's going on outside of what they've directly experienced or it's very vague. They were affected by Solas' actions. They're an elf who was an agent until they realised what he was doing. Something. I just... if you don't want to make a game where choices matter then you shouldn't be working on Dragon Age. You should make something new. This was always Bioware's whole selling point and they've just tossed all that work to one side. Who made that decision?

Imagine if we'd been forced into being a specific character, similar to Hawke in DA2, and had to actually decide whether or not to support Solas as we learned about what he was actually intending to do? Imagine.

Origins still has the strongest writing. DA2 is still my favourite. But I do think Veilguard is a good sequel to Inquisiton. Unfortunately for Bioware, this is the fourth game in a series not the second. As a fourth game, there are some really weird choices. On it's own, it's a really good game. I'm still going to get my partner to play some of it to see what they think as an outsider who only knows about Dragon Age via my chit-chat and reblogging.

[sampirism]

talkn bout my opinions on rook and varric and roleplay and feeling disconnected (roleplay in a game sense not the freaky sense. sorry) - SPOILERS FOR ENTIRE GAME, BEWARE. this post is WAY too long. sorry about that too.

it's very evident that bioware/EA wanted an action/adventure game first and an RPG second, but let me type at you.

i hate to say that i didn't feel particularly sad about varric's fate, due to the structure of the game. it is, in hindsight, completely obvious that he was not alive! i just hadn't been thinking about varric much at all the entire game because you have limited opportunity to talk to him in the infirmary or when he plops around barefoot when everyone decides to sit at a table and talk about how fucked we are. i genuinely forgot he was there otherwise.

he barely feels like a guy himself. because there's no personalized worldstate, any specific mentions to events or characters might be jarring to the player who may have made a different choice along the way.

no one talks about how sorry they are about varric because they CAN'T or the twist is completely revealed. even with another DA2 character in the game (who my hawke romanced. who is now dead in the fade. glad to see you're LIVING IT UP ISABELA!!! (I'm jk. a little.))

there's no response rook can say to condolences outside of "oh, thanks" without the game fully revealing its Twist, because "I'll tell him you said hi" and "he'll be up and walking in no time!" are only reasonable responses from a Mourn Watcher, and even then, should still cause your companions to be a little alarmed. the closest we get to this is the inquisitor making reference to lost friends, and rook visually registers it, but its swept under the rug and moved on from immediately.

(i know we're all mentally unwell in this lighthouse repressing our feelings but jesus christ)

despite spending two games with him and enjoying him as a character, I struggle with feeling much for his loss AS my rook, because i found there to be no meaningful connection between him and rook. i was only told i was supposed to have one.

the game wanted so badly get the ball rolling with an immediate threat, its at the expense of roleplay. you could argue that da2 and inq also started with Immediate Threats but you are also very limited in the choosing of your backstory in those games.

rook was deliberately designed to be more open-ended, with more similarity to origins, but still gave you a prequel where you felt what your life was before The World Began To End.

there's this conversation you can walk in on with lucanis and davrin, where they're talking about their worst jobs. there are three dialogue for rook I think and i can only remember two but they were "I don't want to talk about it" or "man I have the dreadwolf in my head". (I... honestly think the third option was very similar to the second one but I have a very bad memory. sorry)

i played a mourn watcher mage. i had to have done some messed up spirit stuff. some bone shenanigans. not able to mention my Down With Nobles rebellion at all. i halfway expected it to be revealed that my rook was just like a shitty pawn (haha) and actually all her memories are fake and not real. but obviously you meet people from your shared backstory and they do know OF you but they don't really know you

in mass effect 1, there were some unique missions related to both the backstory and psychological profile you picked for shepard. they were short, and nothing happens like that in 2+3 that i remember, but they are unique to your character and are something at least.

no one really asks you much more about yourself! mourn watcher rook is literally Found In The Crypts as an Infant, an incredible mystery that you have to fill in the blanks yourself, which could be something someone wants-- but i personally like my characters a little more predefined in a game such as dragon age. vague history worked for me in games like skyrim and fallout new vegas, even baldurs gate! but makes me feel wholly disconnected from the story and group here.

there was a fair amount of dialogue choices for mourn watcher, especially with Emmrich-- talking with emmrich was one of the few times my rook felt like A Person-- but there were other times that my companions seemed to think emmrich was the only necromancer/watcher on the team. (i even specialized in death caller!)

by containing all the dialogue with companions to ! markers and outings, it's weird to be unable to have any conversations without being able to provide personal insight, whereas some NPCs in inquisition actively asked you about your past.

its particularly noticeable because of lucanis, whom my rook romanced. the dude has a lot to say about nevarran culture and the necropolis and such, and we can have zero conversations on the matter lol.

maybe this is like, really a mourn watcher thing? maybe it feels better as a crow or a warden. but if you offer me the choice to be a freak crawling around in a tomb. i am going to be.

TLDR: i really feel that a prequel mission, a recruitment by varric then a timeskip, a personal quest tied to the consequences of your backstory, something, anything, to make rook feel like an actual part of the world, was a necessity and sincerely a missed opportunity. if you actually read this far, thanks!

[dergnblaze]

Finished Dragon Age Vielguard.

Here are my thoughts... spoilers ahead. I romanced emmerich. he became a lich.

You could REALLY TELL they fired all their writers.

I loved how beautiful everything was, the combat was delicious. But so much of the game felt filler or forgotten.

There were many many opportunities to make compelling story moments that were just lost to happening off screen. Like they were afraid if they tried to animate them they would get made fun of if it didnt look right or something. But just lost all their power bc we didnt SEE them happen.

Lots of moments with bards in the environment that I think SHOULD HAVE HAD music! Maybe not voiced music! But a musical change would have been nice. Hell I would have been happy with the music from the inquisition even.

Its also the shortest Dragon Age game I've ever played. And I hate that. I hate it.

I agree having a tightly wrapped up story is better to ambiguity and lots of moving parts makes things confusing, but everything felt rushed and nothing had room to breath.

I loved romancing Emmerich, and would have loved to see all of the companions have more reactivity with your choices and the enviroment. After every big choice in inquisition you got a scene with the companions it effected the most.

The ending of the game was done very well. I thought the lead up to the big boss fight was well paced, engaging, thrilling and satisfying. But I couldnt help but keep thinking 'Wow I wish the rest of the game got this level of care and attention.'

All the dragons were a mess. We need a big boss fight? Ok here is a dragon. Thats a cop out. I dont like it.

I like all of the companions a LOT more than some of the other games. In Inquistion I only really cared about like, three of them. And how hard would it have been REALLY to bring some of what you did in Inquision into this game? The Divine choice could have been an easy way to satisfy us with a line or two of dialogue, but just nothing?

I liked that there were bodies in the tentacles, that was cool. Belarra being all gross and blighted was cool. It was dark when I needed it to be, so Im happy with that. Elgarnan looked sick as fuck at the end of the game, and so did Solas for that matter. I really like that Emmerich was in lich mode the entire end game. That was hot. I'm sad Lucanis died in my run. I feel like other games would have had a funeral for our lost companions or something, but Harding and Lucanis didnt really get anything.

And Mythal just being some white lady elf was lame. She was an elven god! You CLEARLY have some amazing animators and designers working on the game, its beautiful. It would not have been hard to give us a large, beautiful, ethereal elven goddess instead of just this random white lady ghost. Just feels thoughtless.

SO much of this game felt thoughtless. Like, just the care and attention wasnt given to it that the other games had.

And I shouldnt compare it to Baldurs Gate 3 bc that game is like, magnificent.

But how can I NOT??

They are the same kind of game!!

idk, I feel like the studio maybe gave up on it. I love this IP but after this I doubt it has the legs to keep going. No hook for the next game in the epilogue. No real epilogue for Rook and their partner. Just them standing with their hands on their hips while like four people cheer for them. Lame.

[championofthefade]

Thinking about Veilguard sometimes really makes me start picking it apart.

Yes, I did like it for what it is. But as someone who played the three games for the first time this year, I found it disheartening at times.

Long story short for those who rather not read my rambling: I liked Veilguard, but there are parts that just don't feel right and that everything we've done in Thedas the last three games were all for naught. (I'm yapping about my complaints, might make a more positive post later)

It's a mixed bag, really.

While I liked the gameplay, there are things that just don't rub me the right way.

The first immediate example is how the (only, in my opinion) major choice we are presented with is choosing Treviso and Minrathous. We have the choice to harden the other companions in spirit, but the only ones that actually are affected are Lucanis and Neve.

While I have done both paths, I can't say that one is a better choice over the other. Shadow Dragons are decimated if you choose Treviso, Treviso is blighted if you choose Minrathous. I think that it's fair that Lucanis doesn't want to romance Rook if you choose Minrathous, because he wants to save his city from dying. He trusted you to follow through, while Neve expects that you won't since she's a cynic. Which makes sense why she's willing to still romance you if you choose to save Treviso, although it'll be a bit more challenging to, because you were presented with an impossible choice. I don't mind that he ends up with Neve, even if the romance for all the companions kinda fall flat if you think about it too much.

Another thing is Taash. Their identity is important to their story, but having Rook (us the player) choose how to deal with their cultural crisis doesn't make sense and makes me not want to repeat those quests. Why is there no option to embrace both the Qun and being Rivani? Why am I the one choosing how Taash chooses to express themselves? Relating back to the city choices, Lucanis and Neve both choose their hardened options with Illario (getting jail) and Aelia (being given to the Threads). With Taash, the choices are a little less clear to me. I think we shouldn't be able to dictate one's cultural choices.

One of the worst choices that we have to make as Rook is Harding vs Davrin. Thinking about the amount of people who are saving Davrin just for Assan is actually crazy to me. I love Davrin, but he's reminding me of what happened to Wyll in BG3, and it's not a fun time. (I can barely pick up BG3 for various reasons and this is one of them.) I'm glad Bioware doesn't pander to the fans that are loud, because I don't have to worry about everyone's favorite white boy getting more content than the only black companion (saying this as a white person myself). I will always save Davrin because he is a compelling character even without Assan. I love the feather-brain but I feel like I want to know Davrin more than his mythical son.

I hate that we only got three world state choices, two of which don't really matter since it's more flavor text. It doesn't matter if we disbanded or merged into the Chantry, we don't see the consequences of those actions. It doesn't matter if your Inquisitor wants to Stop Solas at All Costs, because apparently they feel responsible for Solas being... Well, Solas. And our romances, outside of Solavellan, were reduced to a codex entry and sidelined.

Yes, Solas is important, and yes, I expected his romance to be given more light. I'm in the camp of people who feared that was going to be the case. And it was.

Yes, I agree that him getting a Good Ending with his vhenan is one of the better endings, but his friendship one and facing his fear of dying alone is also important. I liked playing a Rook that tricked him, I liked playing a Rook that chose to fight him as well. I'm glad we have at least those aspects that we can control.

As someone who has romanced Lucanis and Neve so far, I wish there were more little cutscenes, and not just for Lucanis. I'm just okay with how things are, even if they're a bit empty in comparison to what we could've had. That being said, I think that there's always room for improvement to have a more fulfilling resolution to the romance in the game the devs claimed was the most romantic. I wish there was more, I wish that there had been more to support that claim. I want to feel closer to these companions, and I am sure that I will as time goes on. But as it stands, for now after sitting with the game for nearly a month (11/29), I wish we had gotten more.

I would like to say that it really doesn't feel like the most romantic compared to the other three games. (Blackwall's "heart laid bare", Dorian's "you're dreadfully dull and I hate you", Josephine's letter of "let me make a promise to you here. I dream you will say yes", Zevran's "I'll storm the Black City for you, never doubt it", Anders' "ten years, a hundred years from now, someone like me will love someone like you, and there will be no templars to tear them apart", just to name the few that feel more romantic than what we're sitting with for Veilguard romances. And one of them is a codex entry.)

I hate that we have to learn through missives that the South is gone, save for Skyhold. I hate that we had no power to help the South, and that the last three games were all for naught. It's upsetting to know that Ferelden is gone. RIP Orlais, you slayed too close to the sun. Kirkwall being empty is a scary thought, but it's gone too.

It makes me wonder where HOF is. Did they ever find a cure? Are they even alive? What about a Hawke that didn't get left in the Fade? You mean to tell me that they wouldn't be out there in the frontlines doing something? You mean to tell me that they're sitting on their asses?

Varric dying is something else entirely, but it's just gut wrenching that we don't even get to mourn him. A second playthrough was mindbogglingly eye-opening. Harding was mourning when you check on her in her little room. Neve reminisces about how Varric brought her onto the job and she wishes that she didn't take it. They were mourning while Rook probably looked like they were in the denial stage of grief. What killed me inside was the fact I caught it the first time when Bellara name dropped Varric like she didn't know he was there. That's when I started thinking maybe he was gone, but I didn't want to believe it. I had to step away from my computer when the reveal happened because I was devastated.

We don't get to see just how the team made the fake lyrium dagger, or how they even managed to find Rook in the first place. We don't get to see the love interest's reaction, only the aftermath where they are still registering that Rook is there. We don't even get an explanation on how those things were possible. To create a perfect lyrium replica and locate someone in the Fade? Knowing that we could've had a mission to save whoever was left in the Fade hurts. RIP to those left in the Fade.

The secret ending is just... Bewildering to say the least. What do you mean that there's an even bigger force that has been controlling the narrative from Across the Sea? What do you mean these incredibly well written villains had no agency in their choices and were being used to orchestrate whatever the hell the Executors wanted?

Again, what do you mean that all that we've been through in Thedas just doesn't matter anymore?

[butterflydm]

some thoughts on spirits (DAV)

I feel like the game has done a good job making Rook feel like someone with natural leadership abilities. And while I do love the companions in the previous games, I feel like DAV's companions are my favorites (at least currently; entirely possible that a replay of the older games would make me feel different!).

I also really like the different dynamics between Rook and their companions. Just... idk good vibes.

Also, here is Rook being very relatable for me:

I am just really loving all the characters so much -- Lucanis stole my heart as my favorite (he's my 'personal demon' now in the character screen lol) but I'm very attached to all of my companions. I love how the game has made it easier to know when they have something new to say, and I like that they distinguish between 'conversations' and 'outings' in the companion quest section. I've really been enjoying getting to know them and I feel like this game has done a really good job appropriately gating dialogues and areas.

It feels like they found a good compromise between 'open world' and 'mission-based game'. Each of the areas feels really big but it's also gated in natural ways that get unlocked as the story goes on, so you can't bum-rush the Crossroads and do literally everything the first time you're there, for example. In DAI, I would sometimes have to impose my own pacing to make sure that things flowed well for me, and I haven't needed to do that with DAV.

One thing that leaving the Fereldan/Orlais area did is really let us get to know a lot of mages who don't have the same sense of shame and self-hate that mages are taught in the Chantry of southern Thedas (or the even more extreme way they are treated by the Qunari!). We got hints of this approach in earlier games, but getting to dive more in-depth into several cultures who do not have the same "let's toss all the mages into prison" approach to magic that southern Thedas has has been very illuminating! Obviously we've always had exceptions like the Dalish clans, but they were very much depicted as deliberately on the outskirts of society, and going against the Chantry-defined norm.

And to contrast, in DAV, I recently had a long conversation with Emmrich on the potential merits of lichdom! Basically an unthinkable conversation in either Ferelden or Orlais. Nevarra doesn't burn their dead and they don't have such a deep fear of the dead, demons, or magic itself. And it really just to illustrate how much the oppression of mages that was so much at display in the Circles is just... nonexistent in places like Nevarra. The oppression is cultural and it's religious -- it's not actually something that's necessary to 'keep magic in check'. (which, yeah, is obvious from the outside, but always nice to have reinforcement from the actual games!)

I'm also watching a let's play of DAI on the side and the person just got to Solas and Cole's personal quests and, yeah, they resonant so hard after the additional Solas revelations in DAV. And it really does feel so much like DAV is in a strong conversation with DAI (as makes sense). Solas and Varric are talking about Cole but Solas is also talking about himself.

Varric: "A spirit who is strangely like a person!"

Varric: "He came into this world to be a person. Let him be one."

Solas: "We cannot change our nature by wishing it." Varric: "You think?"

Solas: "You would alter the essence of what he is." Varric: "He did that to himself when he left the Fade."

[if Cole is made more spirit]

Varric: "...could have been a person." Solas: "Would that have made him happier?"

Is Solas's endgame becoming a spirit again? Or has he experienced and changed too much? (would it make him happier? is that a desirable goal?) Is it all a matter of perspective? Cole approves of the Inquisitor's choice whether they make him more of a spirit or more human. I feel like Solas would lose a lot of himself if he became a spirit again, but maybe that's a matter of perspective too.

And then Solas's DAI quest is all about dealing with the damage of a Wisdom Spirit being corrupted against its purpose -- the same kind of Spirit that Solas once was. Wisdom vs Pride (but once you're a person and not a spirit, you can be filled with both at the same time).

DAV is really making me want to do another run of DAI, and take Solas literally everywhere, lol. But the conversation about spirits in the 'real' world didn't start there either -- it started back in DAO, with Wynne. It continued in DA2, with Anders. Both DAO and DA2 are more 'standard' than what we get in DAI with Cole, in the sense that they were possessing a body (though with permission) but it's still part of the same conversation.

But the conversation really did explode into something bigger in DAI, with Cole as a spirit who was with us without possessing a body, and with learning that being briefly possessed can reverse Tranquility (via Cassandra's quest). And now, with what had been confirmed in DAV, we know that a spirit that takes mortal form can, over the generations, become mortal, as that's what the ancient elves did, so Cole could have kids who were fully mortal, maybe. And Cole did it without using lyrium (and thus taking something from the Titans to fuel himself) -- at least as far as I understand.

I am also finding myself very curious about where humans come from -- we know that the ancient elves were once spirits; we know that the dwarves are fragments of the Titans. Where did humans come from? Evolution? Or is there a magical answer for them too? Is the Maker a spirit and/or Titan who created humans specifically?

(I think it's implied that Qunari were genetically/magically engineered in some way, and possibly crossbred with dragons somehow?? iirc DAI correctly)

I'm really looking forward to removing my filters on DA-related stuff and reading other people's thoughts. I've covered my eyes and clicked on posts a couple of times so far and have been rewarded by mostly getting fanart and not spoilers, lol. Mostly.

I genuinely have zero critiques of the game so far, if anyone was wondering if I was just holding some back or whatever. I like the quality of life changes they made to a lot of little things like companion banter; I never had an issue with the art style*; and I'm enjoying the story and characters as they unfold.

(*I know that was a big thing with a lot of people but, confession time: I genuinely can barely tell a difference between DAI and DAV's 'art style'. You can change Qunari hairstyles separate from horns now in the character creator? People walk less awkwardly than in DAI? The menus are purple instead of green? idk, maybe my brain just doesn't register whatever it is that makes DAV so different, art-wise?)

I also love that I can literally just throw myself at boxes to break them open to get materials. It's so satisfying. I have a griffon that I can pet. idk, I guess I'm just a simple girl with simple desires. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Looking forward to playing more this weekend!

Current progress note: a Dalish clan (at least one) has been kidnapped for potential blood sacrifices, so trying to rescue them is my next main quest. I'm about eighty hours into the game.

[tiredassmage]

veilguard thoughts!

rook + solas parallels edition

spoilery ofc because my head's not full of cotton balls today and i haven't stopped chewing on it all since i finished the game! so! this is a little endgame heavy; you've been warned for what's below the cut <3

the final first playthrough counter has come in just over 67 hours and i am all but physically holding myself back from launching right into another one with another rook because i had a blast. i'll concede it was a bit heavy on the exposition in the first several hours, but what followed has certainly won my heart, and i think the game is visually beautiful.

but i'm not even looking to do a full review here, but i think one of the most fascinating things this game did was set up rook and solas. so, two parts of preface then: one, i was a little determined to love this game and hoped it would at least perform decent. that's my spite about it, lol, but that's not the point, so we're not here about that. two, one of my admitted concerns when they had first announced this game having its own protagonist was... that i wasn't sure there was another person to finish solas's story other than the inquisitor, and this isn't a solavellan thing for me, though my beloved canon inquisitor is a lavellan. solas's friendship wasn't the biggest hitch in inquisition for me, but it was important to my inquisitor. he wanted to prove his friend wrong.

i don't believe hallaren had a plan at the time for how to achieve that. he wasn't sure it was actually possible to convince solas the dalish were not as lost a cause as he seemed to believe, but he had to try.

and when i started veilguard, i wouldn't say i'd have anticipated the parallels of solas and rook, nor how well they ended up working for me. i admit: they got me. i didn't see that twist coming. and the hindsight of losing varric from the beginning makes a lot hurt (i say that as a compliment). i think it's easy enough to explain why i didn't see it, why (my, at least) rook didn't puzzle it out, but i also readily admit i'm historically bad at seeing these kinds of things, so you're free to be amused on your own time, lol.

anyway. regret. not becoming what you hate, what you claim to fight against. not being beholden to what you were or what you've lost. the game hits these beats several times, and i think its a real beautiful repeating thing they've done if you hammer all the companion's stories with the main deal, and i did the memories of the dread wolf as well. rook and the inquisitor have a conversation about it that about touches on all of it way more eloquently than i could summarize.

and, of course, part of the reveal is solas did dabble with blood magic on the matter of varric's death, did set rook up for the level of regret and grief they must settle with to trap them in the fade - a prison fit for gods, a prison fit for a god's regrets.

and this is where i transition into blorbo-specific thoughts. because i think part of what fascinates and delights me so much about the rook and solas, potentially two sides of the same coin deal is how tyr's relationship with solas starts and then develops.

tyr does not trust solas from the outset. which i think is where a very interesting presentation of similar (at their roots) choices begins, as varric says: in a bar, as all good stories. one of the first story notifications we get is how rook chooses to handle the bar owner: charm your way out, or a more direct approach, and we're told varric takes note of this.

varric's own plan is an appeal to solas's nature. to talk his way out. as is varric's way.

normally, i'd call tyr the kind of character (having played with him as an oc in various medias for oh... going on 2 years, is it? maybe 3? time's fake, different post) to also prefer talking his way out. but he doesn't believe solas will listen. so he rebukes varric's plan of just waltzing up and charming him with his babygirl eyes.

then at d'meta's crossing, he spares the mayor. not because he doesn't hear the concern that the greedy bastard will fall to said greed again, and not out of an entirely conscious mandate for live with the consequences of your actions, but... in hindsight with other choices, i'd argue it's... from at least a little of that kind of place.

he tries and fails to reason with the first warden. several times. in the heat of weisshaupt, and with the recent conversation with solas about whatever it takes on his mind, he ends up decking the man. the stakes are too high for risking the first warden staying on his high horse again if another attempt at reason fails, is the driver of the decision.

i'd chewed for a while on how that would seem to make tyr's commitment to "talking things through" indicated by that first choice in the bar inconsistent. it all seems justifiable at the time, and he didn't get to the place with the first warden he was out of intentional malice, but he still wound up there.

much of that is natural by the circumstances he was presented. by making calls with the information and under the conditions that were present at the time, as anyone, not just rook, would have to do under such circumstances, if they traded places. sure, some of it is also by solas's engineering of his conversations with rook. by setting them up to be a leader asked to make those hard calls. maybe even for arguably goading them a bit into a situation where whatever it takes was their only feasible option. which neve has a great comment on:

this is, i think, most directly about varric's death, but also, personally, i have to say is applicable for solas's intervention during blood of arlathan.

so, back to blorbo for a moment. tyr begins from a place that mistrusts solas's motives. the I'm quoting you here, "lies, treachery, and rebellion" kind of mistrust. and then, as things progress, as the team unveils more about solas's past in the crossroads and through the murals, it circles back to what I think motivated much of his comment to varric that talking with solas wouldn't work: that even if solas has any regret for what's happened, he's too stubborn to concede, too trapped by the mistakes of that past to ever admit fault, to hear himself sound like the 'gods' he claims to despise. tyr continues to take solas's advice into consideration the whole time, true, because it's... hard to discount the only potentially close to the problem kind of advice and knowledge they don't... exactly otherwise have themselves. he's not sure what the other shoe dropping in that equation is going to look like, but he's more convinced it'll happen than he is entirely happy with the situation.

the murals create... a hunch. or develop it. that rather than just being too prideful about the harm he'll cause by tearing down the veil, that solas is trapped in this plan by his regrets and guilt for actions of the past. at that point, tyr... has a better understanding about how they got to this point, but it kind of only solidifies his reservations that solas might actually be reasoned with.

the one moment this is changed, then, is during blood of arlathan. because frankly i think that was one of the worst experiences tyr has in the entire game. elgar'nan's influence in their minds, and an incident where they're trapped with no conceivable way out and potentially facing down an archdemon again, not so long after weisshaupt that the losses have stopped aching.

whatever his reasons or motivations and whatever else happens, solas saves their lives. tyr can't find a way around that one, and he's not even certain he wants to. because it's one of the definitive moments where he didn't have a plan, and he was terrified the tables had finally turned against them, and they'd fail.

it's not... trust. but tyr's also spent all this time working with his team on this concept that change shouldn't exactly be beyond anyone if there's a little effort put in. and whatever his own feelings are, varric wanted to believe in his old friend, and so does the inquisitor - both people he respects greatly, and he's constantly calculating their desire for a better outcome into the rubix cube that is trying to figure out how to stop the gods.

the problem then, is that solas all but instantly takes advantage of this... lapse. this faint relaxation of tyr's guard against his manipulations. that whole little incident with the fade after ghilan'nain's fall is all but immediately after, and its a betrayal nearly thrice or so over in rapid succession: that varric's been dead this whole time, that solas has manipulated him and how he feels responsibility for the team and the regrets that arise out of having to make hard choices, especially in times like these, and then on the other side of the fade, that solas has gone to minrathous, solas is playing "hero" about it all in tyr's and the shadow dragons' backyard. and to add salt to the wound, in minrathous, it's been blood magic all along.

and, y'know. solas says sorry, says he won't tear down the veil by his own hand, but hands rook the weapon to do it for him. sets them up again. so maybe that's more like... four or five times, depending on your count and categorization of it all.

and rook has a choice about all of this to make, a certain level of peace they have to make with it all to even get out of the fade. and how much to follow varric's advice about don't become what you hate - what you were fighting all along, or trapped by what you lost.

here's tyr's opinion that solas has more than likely been beyond reason because he's too far gone on his own path to even see that he's done exactly that: that he talks like elgar'nan's control, he's just dressing it up in a different way. that he's trapped by what he's lost and sacrificed and admitting that will be too much.

and here's tyr's inescapable bitterness of having been betrayed, of having spent so long trying to be careful with the god of trickery only to have danced right to his tune the whole time. a fiery emotional response for a threat to his home, to minrathous that he's tried very hard to protect and leave a smidgen better than he found it in this whole fight.

by circumstance... and by a little of solas's own design then, rook and solas confront the same trouble of what sacrifice being a leader demands. what cost is too high? how much is too much?

i had the pieces at that point for the ending with mythal, but now i had tyr bitter and a bit more resentful about solas - in a kind of pain about betrayal that was still asking why? about it rather than worried about if regret was present or meaningful. which is where this came from in my head akdfnas;dfnsadf

you're both thinking it. and the endings directly focus on whether or not solas succeeds in tearing down the veil, but the thematic part of it, to me, was... do rook and solas recognize where they might be held back? does tyr act on the pain and resentment of betrayal and swing blindly at solas as repayment? or is it bigger than both of them? is it about posing the question to solas about regret? how much is it like what drove solas to this point to act on that resentment? is it just retaliation? or did either of them learn anything from that prison in the fade?

and that's what makes the parallel, and it's what sets them apart.

and that's how, still, in the end, i have tyr who is willing to choose trying to reason one last time. for the sake of the advice of an old friend. for the people that brought them this far, the ones who chose to believe against the odds. and maybe, even, a little bit for himself. a choice against letting regret and resentment rule.

for the sake of it and because i couldn't get this game out of my head, i checked out the other endings, just to see, and i... think i like sticking with convincing him the best for both of them.

the trick with the dagger swap i think is the only other fitting course of action tyr might've taken from that point, and i think some of its elements reflect similar beats here about... learning from the past, if you will.

the accusation of likeness to the gods is still there. the banter about wits. i am a fool who finally met his match. one might argue that's for underestimating rook, which... fair enough, but i think... it also falls in line with solas's regrets, the appeal to be made to his nature, the... want, in the end, to be proven wrong. to find a 'better' way, as once he suggested to the inquisitor, and as mythal's release from debt and rook and the inquisitor's forgiveness, if you will, finally allows.

and that is... very satisfying to have said between them, when it's been on tyr's mind the whole time. and... they can both be proven wrong this way: for tyr, that solas wasn't beyond listening, and for solas, that there was another way.

for both of them that they could move on from what these trials have made of them, what they have done, and what they endured.

and man... man that was good. and so, so satisfying. it worked, veilguard. you sold me on these two as parallels to each other.

and that's just... one of many things in this game that gave me a lot of emotions, but this has already been. a helluva ramble, so if you've made it this far, congratulations and i salute you, lol.

i'm sure i'll do it all over again and have even more thoughts about even more rooks to throw around and chew on with this and what it'll reflect about each of them and that's. MMM. that's delicious. i loved this game. if my brain and time cooperates, i'm sure i'll have more thoughts and maybe even some writings for it in the future, we'll see where the blorbos take me. xD

[butchvamp]

i finished the game last night, here are my unpolished thoughts about the final act and what i liked & didn't like. this is very long and probably incoherent lol

what i liked:

the whole final battle was awesome, i loved the combat, and i really enjoyed the huge cutscenes of everyone fighting together. i had been really disappointed earlier about the lack of a battle scene at weisshaupt a la ostagar in origins, and this definitely made up for it

i liked the suicide mission and actually getting to assign people their roles in the battle

i LOVED Solas's betrayal, that whole section in the fade prison with the statues was one of the strongest scenes in the game, i think the entire relationship between Rook and Solas is really well developed. as the player, we know Solas is manipulating them, but i think they did a good job making it so it's still believable for Rook to fall for his tricks, especially with the Blood of Arlathan quest before this. (also it's very obvious Solas is Weekes' favorite, wish they would have just stuck to him and not all that other dogshit...lol)

i liked the idea of Varric's role here, but not the execution. i'll come back to this lmao

the giant dread wolf and archdemon fight was cool as fuck. no notes. that's just classic rule of cool, baby

also i had Davrin in my party while fighting alongside Solas and i really enjoyed his banter with him and how hard he laid into Solas's ass. it was very satisfying. yippee go Davrin!

okay. now. what i didn't like (sorry not going to bother with bullet points, it's going to be longer down here lol):

while i liked the suicide mission structure, i hated how the game all but told you who to assign where. there were no stakes at all, there was no way to get it wrong unless you did so intentionally.

this also brings me to. The Choice. between Davrin and Harding. i understand the need for a "fallen hero" here, it ties into the entire theme of regret with Solas as we see in the fade prison, it was necessary for Rook to be the person "at fault" (aka directly make the choice that ends with someone getting killed) but this choice was dogshit. it also was really fucking stupid to see Harding climb up and stand atop a giant stone pillar, and then NOT use her stone magic!!! i don't hate the idea of someone dying here, but this was just a series of failed choices over and over again. we should not have pitted returning fan fave Harding against the single Black companion (who comes in late and barely even gets his own story outside of his damn pet)-- it should have been Harding (narratively satisfying, she's been here since the beginning and dies for the fight) or Lucanis (he is literally the guy taking the shot), we also shouldn't have tied all the dwarf lore revelations to a character that can just fucking die at the end, and we shouldn't have had her stand on a giant stone pillar when she has STONE MAGIC!! i knew this choice was coming but her death still caught me off guard cus i was fully expecting her to collapse that stone pillar on her, not use her stupid puny bow 😭

i think this choice is also weakened by the fact that it's THEE only choice. it's obviously an echo of the earlier Treviso and Minrathous choice, which also didn't really seem to affect much outside of potentially losing the corresponding factions (and i think Lucanis's romance gets locked out?) i saved Treviso, so i got the Treviso questline later, and i assume that you get a Minrathous specific questline with the Shadow Dragons if you save the other instead (haven't seen myself tho so i'm not sure, just guessing). but it's very easy to recover the Shadow Dragon's reputation, and the final battle takes place in Minrathous no matter what. the only way for companions to die or the battle to fail is to just straight up ignore quests. you can't lose a faction's support at all unless you intentionally try to do so. i don't even think you can lose companions at all unless you intentionally ignore their quests and place them in the wrong spot. though the game still holds your hand through the battle and basically Tells You who to put where so they survive.

and to be fair. this is true for the suicide mission in mass effect 2, but the thing is, there is so much more dialogue and variations with how you can play your character and interact with the companions and the world than there is in veilguard, it makes it feel like you do have more control over your character and the narrative, even if it's just the illusion of choice.

and then with Solas, it doesn't matter, he always ends up trapped/linked to the Fade, it just changes how he feels. (they also do this with the First Warden. i was excited for a potential variation between punching/not punching, but all it changes is his attitude when you find him later in Davrin's quest) okay.... well. is he going to return again after that post credit scene? and are they really going to write 3 (or 4, with lavellan i guess) different branching personality variations?

i think the powers that be just wanted to get rid of him in a way that would still leave the dragon age setting ultimately unaltered and open for more games in the future. especially given the secret post credits scene. which i also have an issue with. we're going to go from "it was all the Evanuris fault" to Actually, it was this secret third thing and everything we did was for nothing! AGAIN! if they want to make more dragon age games, they can just... start a new story. do they know that. (the fact they're implying Loghain was influenced by some outside force to do what he did at ostagar actually has me livid lol. leave origins alone!!!!)

anyways. now the fade prison. i have two issues, my main one being Varric. i actually started to suspect early on something was up with him, because he just sits in that damn infirmary the entire game, no interactions, barely any dialogue. i think Varric was horribly underutilized in this game, and it results in all of the emotional beats around him falling flat for me. of course, it's emotional for ME, the player, because Varric is a fan fave returning character and one of my own personal favorites. as far as i've seen in game, though... Rook has no relationship with him at all. i think this game would have been vastly improved with short playable origins that showed the two meeting and developing a relationship, and also he really really needed to have more scenes and dialogue in general. he's barely in the second half of the game, literally just sitting all by himself in that damn room, and even when he is in the cutscenes he has one single line that everyone obviously just ignores. it sucked. very disappointing finale for a really beloved character... it could have been so good if it was good....

because i DO love the idea of Solas using him to manipulate Rook (and i really like Varric and Solas's relationship & the way they contrast against each other), and also the idea of how being tricked in that way would actually affect Rook-- what's real, what's not, can they even trust what they're seeing at all anymore? especially when Solas "glitches" between Varric and Lucanis (idk if it's always him or your LI? would be cool if it's your LI, that's what i assumed) after slaying Ghilan'nain-- this could have tied in with the final romance scene. but of course the game doesn't get into any of that at all.

and now issue 2. how the fuck did Solas do that LOL. how did he switch places, how did he get out, how did it take Rook in his place when it was designed for elven gods? where are the other elven gods (did i just miss this explanation? did the other two just kill them in there)? 🤷 when did this place suddenly turn into a prison of regrets? was that Solas's presence influencing it, or did he do that intentionally for Rook? dont know! who cares. moving on...

i romanced Lucanis, and i was really disappointed with his romance. the final scene was sweet, but.... i think particularly with Lucanis you can tell so much of his story and arc ended up on the cutting room floor, it feels disjointed and as if we're missing pieces, and you can feel it in his romance, too. i also really didnt understand the "keep flirting (not a lock in) or end it now" choices that didnt feel like they did anything at all. why was i given like 3 different times to break up with him when we weren't even dating yet lmao. the romance was a bummer, of course i love the setting and the story but i go into these games expecting strong romance along with it and i was really banking on that being the highlight in this mess of a game but. alas

this also segues me back into the whole "trapped in the Fade prison" section. why was there no reunion with both your LI and everyone else? apparently Rook was in there for WEEKS!!! they hardly communicate this and Rook just reappears and jumps straight back into leading the team, no tears or questions asked about how they found them, how they got out, what everyone was thinking while they were gone... we also get a deus ex machina knife, how convenient that they did all that while i was gone and no explanation is given as to how it could possibly fool Solas, just trust us bro! 💆 i feel like trying to craft our own copy of the knife should have been something actively happening in the background throughout the entire game, and it gets finished while Rook is in the Fade. but this truly came out of nowhere lol

again i think it's obvious things were cut and rewritten and maybe this was the result of a frantic scramble to come up with something that would work, and i'll be generous and blame it on that, i guess...

when we finally get to the final confrontation with Solas, i was very excited, because again i feel like Rook and Solas's relationship is the best in the game, Solas's writing is consistent and strong, i knew this scene had to be good.... and i guess it was? but it felt so unsatisfying. i chose to fight him (my Rook would do anything to get him to shut up) and i was hoping for. an actual fight. you can do it with Mythal earlier in the game, and we already saw his giant wolf form, i was so excited. and then. no<3

okay! sure. we beat him with the power of friendship (not surprised and not even making fun of it here, it makes sense narratively, i knew some version of this was coming after the whole comparing Rook versus Solas bit in the Fade) but come onnnnn i wanted to fight the giant wolf.... sigh. i did check out the other endings as well, and it's clear the redemption ending is the "true" ending and also the best written one imo.

overall. this was a bad dragon age game. i had a lot of fun playing it though, so it's not a bad game game. the gameplay loop never got boring, i never got tired exploring or doubling back, i loved the maps, i loved the combat, and i did love the companions. but the writing is atrocious and racist. this is a horrible dragon age game. i don't know where i fall on recommending this. again, i've had a lot of fun playing and dissecting it, but i dont know that i could recommend this to dragon age fans. this would have been way more successful as a completely different fantasy game. the changes to the lore, disregarding the majority of the games that came before it, the horrible depictions of returning characters (the inquisitor and isabela were the worst offenders for me) the setting and characters feeling watered down and incomplete, the complete lack of the classic "grey morality" shtick (even if it's not always been implemented well)... idk man. bummer! it's obvious there was a cohesive vision at one point, i do think this game is a casualty of the current state of the gaming industry (i was honestly surprised it was functional on launch. not shade at bioware just in general that is rare to see now) we know EA thrashed bioware throughout development, and bioware made a lot of really bad choices, too (the racism is absolutely their doing, they made that choice back in inquisition). but we can see, particularly in the artbook, that there were good ideas & an intention to actually tie everything together and give this story the finale it deserved... but it all got lost along the way in a very ugly, chaotic development. and the game really suffers for it.

[fadetouchedsilk]

I think something else that kind of puts me off the neve/lucanis thing is the fact that this appears to be the one NPC romance that re-uses the same lock in scene we get as the player?

To the best of my knowledge this isn’t the case with Taash or Harding’s romance scenes, Emmerich & Strife happens mostly off screen so that’s exempt too. But for some reason with Lucanis it’s basically the same scene with Rook model-swapped for Neve.

Like, some of the vitriol towards this ship can definitely just be marked down as garden variety biphobia & the occasional side of character related possessiveness (no judgement we’re all mentally ill I’ve been there lmao) but I’m also just seeing this overwhelming sense of… idk how to explain it exactly, it’s almost like an energy of depressively resigned rejection across platforms? Was the decision to not have this be a unique scene for the player a budget issue/cut content? You can argue him remembering what your favourite dessert is makes it unique but honestly that’s just a few dialogue flags of difference.

It still comes across as a shortcut for the player’s story. Realism in relationships aside, I actually don’t think it’s a bad look for us as consumers to assume we’re going to get a certain level of indulgence here for that reason. I don’t think everyone needs to be falling over themselves to kiss Rook’s feet, but I think it’s okay for our chosen li to be a bit more of a fantasy, yknow?

If it was a given from the start that the npcs were going to pair off, I think it would have been better if this only happened after your romance of choice was locked in, or at least past the point in the game where you would get a lock in scene (correct me if I’m wrong, but those all seem to trigger around the same time for everyone). Because of how the game is paced, we’d get to avoid spending the first 40 hours listening to ambient flirting when we’re exploring, which imo would also help npcs being received. There’s a distinct lack of interpersonal reactivity Veilguard whenever it comes to Rook (genuinely, why is this such a lonely protagonist?) but the relationships between companions seem to chug along nicely. Seems like a bit of a design flaw to have pre-romance flags active but to still be hearing how much your chosen li is apparently into this other person?

I don’t see the same amount of pushback towards the other NPC romances as I do Neve/Lucanis, which honestly looks like it comes down to how his romance specifically was executed & how the narrative likes to prioritize relationships between other people vs. ones with Rook. I don’t expect writers to not have favourites because that’d be hypocritical of me lmao, but I do expect a professional studio to be more adept at either covering it up better or giving your players enough attention to offset it. I haven’t seen anyone reflecting on how comparatively empty Neve’s romance felt to other companions the way I have with Lucanis, so I have to assume it isn’t. But with his route, it just feels extra :/ that one of maybe three scenes we get is just recycled content for his other possible partner.

(Obligatory disclaimer: I see the vision behind the ship and I don’t hate it nor am I jealous, I just feel like with those two characters in particular it should have unfolded much slower than one game would have allowed & also I expect a certain degree of wish fulfillment when it comes to these games, not feeling like the player character is the writers’ afterthought. Hating Neve for this is a bit much because 1. She’s not real and 2. She’s also not responsible for writing decisions so I think taking jabs at the female character involved is kind of a waste of energy [once again I get the jealousy thing, but still.])

[madameevil]

Protagonists & Failures (Dragon Age)

Originally, I started writing this as a reblog to another post complaining about how Rook isn't anyone special but then it quickly became something else.

I realized something while typing my response out to that. The two games that are hated the most within the fandom (DA: 2 & DA:TV) have the protagonists experience failure repeatedly as key parts within their story. I think that's no coincidence.

Let's look at when the games either force you to accept/face failure or provides you a non-game over failure state that you don't purposefully choose. I'll focus on the main questlines & companion questlines because I don't have time to break down every side quest in all the games. I also won't count purposeful choices made by the player as failures. Consequences sure, but a player driven choice to kill or save someone doesn't count. You made that choice knowing the consequences. That's not a failure you're forced to face. Hopefully that clarifies everything.

Spoiler warning for all games below cut.

Dragon Age: Origins

Prologue: Regardless of which origin you choose, your Hero of Fereldan (HoF) suffers a loss or failure that forces you to join the Wardens.

Ostagar: Regardless of your choices, you are forced to accept the failure at Ostagar.

...

Every other instance, you are successful. You are successful in recruiting the Dalish, handling the problem at the Mage Circle, handling the dwarven problem, handling the Redcliffe problem. There are different ways to address these problems which lead to different sacrifices but those are all choices the player knowingly makes and in the end you are still successful in your goal. You gain an ally for the fight. That's your goal. Each time you gain one.

The entire game is just travel around to get allies. Ally has their own problem that is somehow more important than the blight. Resolve said problem: gain ally. That's it. That's the formula. (Don't get me wrong I love DA:Origins but mostly for the companions.)

In the end, even if there is a loss associated with it, you are victorious. You kill the Archdemon. You save Fereldan.

Dragon Age: II (2)

Prologue (conditional): You fail to protect a sibling.

Expedition (conditional): Your choice put your other sibling in danger. You lose them either through death or the Wardens. You also fail to gain any of the items you initially went down there for.

Qunari Mage: You fail to give him freedom. Even if you defend against the other Qunari, they still kill themself.

Mother: Hawke fails to protect the last family member who's present in their life.

Qunari: Hawke fails to resolve things peacefully before they attack the city. You fail (conditional) at judging your companion, Isabela.

Dalish Clan: You fail to save the Keeper of the clan. You fail (conditional) to keep Merril's clan alive.

Mage v. Templar: You fail to resolve tensions. You fail to stop things from escalating. You fail at judging your companion, Anders and you failed to stop him. You fail to save the circle as the First Enchanter uses blood magic. You fail to stop the Knight Commander from succumbing to the relic. The relic you found. The relic you failed to recover.

DLC Legacy: YOU unleash the evil and YOU fail to kill it.

...

Hawke's story is a tragedy. They struggle and struggle to just simply survive and hold on to those close to them only to fail repeatedly. At the end, no matter who you support, you're forced to flee Kirkwall. There's no celebration. There's no party. The ending scene as the Knight Commander is petrified isn't happy. It's not joyous. No matter what your relations were with your companions, you're forced apart (except your lover). DA: 2 requires you to face failure and loss at every turn in the story.

Dragon Age: Inquisition

Haven: You fail to fend off the attack on Haven forcing you to retreat and end up at Skyhold.

Halam Shiral: You can fail here if you get kicked out or fail to gather the evidence you need.

Trespasser DLC: You fail to stop or convince Solas.

...

Otherwise, you are victorious at every turn. You outmaneuver Corypheus so badly that he's the one who's constantly moving to a fallback plan. Dude is on plan Z by the time you finally finish him, I swear. After Haven, you consistently have the upper hand and win against him pushing him into a corner.

There are times when you are forced to make a tough choice like with Bull's Chargers or with Hawke & the fade, however, each time you are making a conscious choice on the matter. The story doesn't force you to face these as "failures" they're just difficult choices to make and that's an important distinction. It's not framed as "you failed to save the chargers" it's framed as "you sacrificed the chargers when you didn't have to." It's not "you failed to escape the fade" it's framed as "you sacrificed Hawke/Stroud/Alistair to escape" Either way you aren't blamed for it. Varric may be hurt if you leave Hawke, yes, but even he doesn't blame you for it. He doesn't grow angry with you. He's just upset. He knows it was Hawke's choice to remain.

Dragon Age: The Veilguard

This game is all about little wins. Neve points that out in her story. Failure here usually has a small win associated with it.

Backstory: Rook fails at (or screws up) something.

But you did end up with Varric because of it.

Ritual: Rook fails to protect the team. Rook fails to protect the world by unleashing worse threats.

But you did successfully stop Solas's ritual

Davrin Recruit: Rook fails to save the griffons.

City Choice: Rook fails to save a city. Rook fails to kill the dragon. This one I'm including because Rook is blamed by both companions and NPCs for it. It's also framed in a way where you truly believe your other companions and faction can help the city just as much as you can the other, but you fail to factor in the dagger. The dagger is the only reason that dragon lands. It's the only reason you can stop it from attacking the city and focus on you instead.

You at least saved one city and injured a dragon.

Weißhaupt: Rook fails to save Weißhaupt. Rook's plan fails at killing Gil.

But you did kill her archdemon.

Blighted Dragons: Fails to kill Gil again.

But you did kill her dragons

Elgernan's Eclipse: Fails to stop him from summoning his arch demon. Fails to stop them crafting the dagger.

But you did save the hostages

Island: Fails to protect the team. Fails to see Solas's betrayal.

But you did kill Gil.

Then if we look at the companion quests we see even more...

We fail to capture the venatori in the relic case because the system is corrupt.

We fail to give Lucanis closure with Zara because Illario.

We fail to save Taash's mom.

We fail to stop Hekenkoss so Manfred has to.

And the every time we fail to kill the gods or fail to stop their plans, more of the South falls. We lose territory. We lose a faction. We lose companions.

...

Failure is a prominent occurrence in DA:TV for a few reasons.

Rook isn't anyone special. Rook isn't the only one who can end a blight. Rook isn't blessed with a magic hand that can fix the tears in reality. Rook is just a person who Varric happened upon. They're just someone who is struggling at every turn.

Rook must experience failure to feel regret. Rook must feel regret to be manipulated by Solas. All these failures accumulate to the prison swap. There you're forced to face them. You're forced to acknowledge that you failed, but you had little victories along the way too and sometimes that's all you need (thanks Neve). Also because regret is a MAJOR theme in the game among Solas and your companions.

EITHERWAY this leads to an almost inverse of how Inquisition felt. In Inquisition we were outplaying the antagonist. This time the antagonists are outplaying us. We're the ones struggling to find a next move. We're the ones struggling to think of another plan. On top of that, blame is cast on Rook multiple times by NPCs and their own companions.

So what's the point?

People don't like to experience failure. They don't like to be told they failed. They don't like to be told "you weren't strong enough." or "you did everything you could, but in the end it wasn't enough." It doesn't feel good to be powerless and that's what Rook is for a lot of the story. It's also what Hawke is for a lot of DA:2.

I think a lot of people don't know how to process feeling powerless in the game. Their thoughts follow the same pattern of regret: "if only I did X" or "if only I was stronger/better."

In reality there's a lot of anger that follows; either towards oneself or anything else you can cast blame on. In a game, it's much easier to cast blame on the developers and say "If only you did X" or "if only you made the PC stronger/better", "If only you wrote it differently.", "If only you gave me different dialogue options."

But I think feeling that way is the point. You are supposed to feel powerless. You are supposed to feel like no matter how much you struggled, it was helpless at times. It plays right into the core theme of the game. Unfortunately, I think that doesn't sit well with a lot of people.

I think asking a gamer to feel powerless in a video game always leads to people feeling uncomfortable. That uncomfortable feeling leads to hate or a dislike of the game. "Power Fantasy" is a real concept in games and when it's broken there are consequences to it. However, I do think that breaking it deserves to be explored and utilized within narratives. Breaking it at the right moment is after all a key step in The Hero's Journey.

Anyway! My ramblings have concluded. If I missed some crucial moment or rambled too hard and lost the point, let me know. If you're polite I'll probably respond.