#i also believe they a buddie getting together timeline based on the number of episodes they had by 704

[lover-of-mine]

IDK enough about when scripts for S7 were written vs knowing 10 eps only and S8 renewal, but I kind of feel like eps 1-5 were written with Eddie/Tommy leading to Buddie in mind and then when the switch happened they changed a couple of things in eps 1-3 (not much, just Buck speaking to Tommy before he headed off after Eddie) and then ep 4 became a mish mash of what was originally planned with Eddie (his whole meeting someone and clicking thing and their "dates"). I feel like they were going Buddie (making Buck jealous while Eddie figured out he liked men in 7a and then going to spend 7b with the fallout of that leading to Buddie) but then found out they had only 10 eps and the woman who played Natalia couldn't come back so they switched it to Buck because it was easier to make him bi/they didn't have a storyline for him anymore if Eddie wasn't dating Tommy, making Buck question everything while still dating Natalia. And THEN they got renewed so instead of pushing Buddie to end S7 they moved it to S8 to give Eddie a better coming out arc, but then had to come up with a storyline for him beyond the nun thing and TM happened to watch Vertigo late one night... IDK maybe I'm crazy, but I just feel like S7 was planned buddie (starting with Eddie/Tommy as catalyst) - even including how they marketed the season before it aired with a lot of Buddie stuff and talking about it in interviews, etc (and that Family Feud ep) after filming the first 5 eps that had been written - and then between only 10 eps and a S8 renewal the plans changed. Does that make sense or am I delusional?

If you're delusional, we both are delusional because I'm right there with you. They already had episode 6 recorded by the time of the renewal but not anything past that, and assuming that the renewal allowed them not to rush things doesn't feel crazy to me. Also I think they switched things around because they realized Buck was more straight forward to get out of the closet than Eddie along with the actress availability, I don't think they planned on shoving Buck on the back burner, they just happened to not know what to do with him because Natalia couldn't come back so they couldn't use her for whatever plan they had about his death, and then they gave him something they had planned for Eddie, because the switch happened while they were filming the cruise, and just kept him in Eddie's storyline for the rest of the season because they didn't plan that far ahead lol the vertigo thing was very clearly a last minute decision because if they had thought about it earlier, they would've expanded the situation to happen all season, imo they could've used Kim in 705 for the conflict with Marisol instead of that nonsense of moving in/moving out, along with actually giving us the backstory on Eddie and Shannon. That deleted conversation with Chris adds a lot and it would be interesting if we had seen some version of it during 701 when Chris is having his crisis about Shannon and talking to 5 girls, and if they had laid the groundwork from the beginning of the season, that storyline wouldn't be so out of pocket. I think it was a combination of the way the actress couldn't come back, the show was renewed early and the way that Buck bi was well received, they kinda realized they could use Eddie being queer to bring the same type of buzz to s8 as biBuck brought to s7, and looking at it from a business perspective, to cram both storylines into one season when they could milk the exposure is kinda dumb, so we ended up with them not knowing what to do for the back half of the season and just winging it. And Ryan said they were getting scrips hours before shooting, so like, it was very clearly we did not plan for this but we need 4 more episodes so they let Tim play in his sandbox of madness.

[iamnmbr3]

Hi. I've been reading threw a number of your posts related to Loki 2021 and the general impression your post give is that you don't like how Loki 2021 has been written and present (which I understand because while Loki is not a favourite character of mine, I want to see his character done justices). And I guess I was just wondering how you would have tackled Loki 2021, using the plot elements that have been established in the show, but with your own spin. Thank you :)

That's a great question! I think the premise actually had a ton of potential. @nikkoliferous and I often talk about all the really cool things that could've been done and why it's so particularly tragic that they wasted all that good story setup. I think there are 3 main types of directions the story could've gone in with this premise (and then a lot of variations within each type).

Direction 1 - A buddy comedy with a heart

So I think this is what they were trying to go for with Loki and Mobius's dynamic based on the narrative framing and how all the interviews have presented Mobius in a positive light. (Though that's not what they actually wrote at all).

The way to do this would be to set Mobius up in a more sympathetic way and put him and Loki on more even footing. They could've had Mobius be almost as much a prisoner as Loki. They could have started out with him being pretty indoctrinated into the TVA worldview, but also being considered expendable. We could've seen his superiors threaten him with deletion if he can't make things work with the Loki Variant. Maybe he even feels some compassion for Loki and convinces his superiors that Loki can be useful and shouldn't be deleted since he's powerless to do anything else and he figures being enslaved is probably better than dying. Loki could actually be in-character and question Mobius's world view etc. And Mobius could to the best of his ability treat him decently instead of smugly mocking and tormenting him.

We could have Loki escape early on and end up bringing Mobius along with him, either by accident or because he realizes Mobius will be killed for losing him and he feels bad about it. Then we have them thrown together by circumstances and they could slowly grow to trust each other over the course of the show. The series could dig into the parallels between them. Loki could point out to Mobius that he repeats the propaganda he's been taught but he's hardly less of a prisoner than Loki and his masters are hypocritical. This could also lead to Loki realizing that while maybe he wanted to tell himself that he was an ally of Thanos's the truth was anything but.

While they're on the run both could start to realize they're experiencing freedom from the first time. Mobius could learn to question the TVA and Loki could realize that maybe he can be himself and doesn't have to be a tool of Odin or Thanos. Loki could could grapple with how much control he had while attacking NYC (thus allowing Disney to leave that a bit open to interpretation without totally sweeping the torture and mind control under the rug) and Mobius could grapple with how complicit he has been in the TVA's horrific actions.

Rather than Loki "learning to be trustworthy" (smh) Loki could learn to trust someone else and that not everyone will betray him. Mobius could also be a stand-in for more casual viewers and slowly realize that Loki isn't just the uncomplicated villain he at first took him for. There could be a nice mix of substantive character drama and entertaining hijinks. And of course in the end they could burn the TVA to the ground and liberate all realities. There's so many variations on this and @nikkoliferous and I often chat about them. Because the show could've been so good! And yet. </3

Direction 2 - The TVA & Mobius are acknowledged as the great villains they are

This is kind of what they're making by accident without acknowledging it which leads to a lot of emotional dissonance in the narrative. In canon the TVA is a horrific organization and Mobius seems happily complicit. He doesn't seem to have any compunctions about supporting their agenda of using murder, genocide, forced labor, enslavement, torture, police brutality, sham trials without due process, and privacy violation to eliminate free will. He happily forced Loki to toil under threat of death, mocks and humiliates him, manipulates him, and participates in acts of torture. He is INCREDIBLY creepy and a great embodiment of the "banality of evil" concept. The TVA is also absolutely terrifying.

If the show actually leaned into that it would create a great sense of narrative tension. Loki has escaped Thanos only to once again fall into the hands of a horrifically evil and powerful enemy. And it's up to him to figure out a way out of this situation and a way to liberate all of reality from their grip. In this scenario it might be useful to introduce some other prisoner characters so that he has some friendlyish faces to interact with...and potentially an army to lead against the TVA after he's won them over and figured out a plan.

Mobius's parallels to Odin and Thanos would work really well here because having Loki eventually defeat him and tell him he doesn't get to tell Loki who he is or make him into a tool of evil would be hugely cathartic. We'd get to see Loki stand up to and defeat someone who parallels the two individuals who have most hurt and manipulated him and decide to make his own way from now on rather than trying to be what others make of him. It would be awesome.

Direction 3 - TVA are twist villains

Some people think this might be the direction the show is going. The problem is that if that's true it'll just fall flat because the TVA is already clearly villainous so there's no twist. In the first episode already we see them commit acts of murder, genocide (wiping out a whole timeline because they believe the beings in that timeline belong to a class - variants - that are unworthy of life), police brutality, trial without due process, privacy violation, torture, and illegitimate imposition of rule (they are not elected in any sense and yet they have appointed themselves the arbiters of reality) all in the service of eliminating free will. That is...not what heroes do.

However they COULD have been good twist villains with just a few tweaks. Maybe they approach Loki and play on his deep yearning to be viewed as good and worthy as well as his self-hatred and poor self image to convince him that an "evil" version of him is wreaking havoc and they need his help. Maybe they also sweeten the deal by offering him protection from Thanos and the Black Order since he has no idea they are dead in this timeline. (If you wanted to keep audiences more in the dark you could have them just talk about the Black Order so that audiences at first assume they are still hunting Loki even tho Thanos is dead and don't realize the TVA is manipulating Loki).

At first they don't do anything overtly evil. The authoritarian aesthetic would seem like a humorous parody of office culture. It would then take on a new, much more sinister meaning when the TVA get's revealed as evil later and we learn that they obliterate entire timelines, murder people for the slightest infractions, don't view variants as people, and want to eliminate free will. Mobius could either appear first as a friend and then get revealed as a villain or have a redemption arc where he ends up siding with Loki.

Also for all of these scenarios the script and characterization should be good. I should see Loki, not Larry his dumb lookalike cousin. The script should have Loki doing and saying things that are in-character. (Which certainly doesn't preclude humor since Loki's wit is one of his most iconic features!)