#howtodestroyacharacter

[goldenkamuyhunting]

to "anonymous" March 16. Noda has denied himself many times. Ogata's own storyline was debunked and ignored so much that all doubts and "mysteries" of his character were abandoned by leaving him to die. ultimately Golden Kamuy ends up with Sugimoto and Asirpa staying together. and this is a fact that he can deny as much as he wants but it's there

Sorry for the late reply.

Should I warn people this reply isn't a 'Noda praising feast' or it's obvious enough? Whatever.

At this point I'm not really sure what went on with Noda and GK.

Very early in GK we've Huci asking Sugimoto to marry Asirpa.

Noda though, said, until the end, that Asirpa wasn't meant to be seen in a sexual way, because she's young and because he's uncomfortable when women are seen like that...

Noda: I wanted to make absolutely sure that Asirpa would not be seen in a sexual way, by either the readers or the other characters. There’s a lot of perverts in the story, to be sure, but I didn’t want her to sway in that direction. Her being a young girl is part of it, but I was always uncomfortable with women being shown explicitly sexualized to begin with. [Noda Satoru’s interview with Asahi Shinbun, translation courtesy of @piduai]

...and that she had a crush on Sugimoto, but that their relationship wasn't romantic.

Q: The relationship between Sugimoto and Asirpa could only be described as “partners”, with no romantic elements, until the end. Did you plan to keep it like that since the very beginning, or was it a natural development?

Noda: I decided from the very beginning that I would not show Sugimoto and Asirpa as romantically involved in the end. Asirpa’s crush felt natural for the character so I included it, and since it was related to the later events, it was part of my calculations. [Noda’s interview for Yomiuri online paper translation courtesy of @piduai]

However he deliberately set the relationship between Umeko and Sugimoto to fail right from the start so that Sugimoto could stay in Hokkaido with Asirpa.

Noda: If Umeko had not remarried and her eyes weren’t healed, the story would have needed a few more chapters, which, considering that it was post-climax, would have made it drag on needlessly. The reason for that is Toraji told Sugimoto to get together with Umeko before dying, and he is not the kind of guy who could have ignored that and return to Hokkaido with Asirpa. Besides, Umeko remarrying has been hinted towards at a few points throughout the story, so it was a foregone conclusion. [Noda’s interview for Yomiuri online paper translation courtesy of @piduai]

Where all this lead us to?

Well, clearly as far as Noda is involved, he believes he ended up GK with Sugimoto and Asirpa not being together in a romantic situation.

Asirpa, after all, should be around 16 when the final chapter takes place and, even if back then she was considered of marriageable age (and, if I'm not wrong, girls of 16 can marry in Japan if they parents allow it), she's still awfully young.

However they don't have a father/daughter relation, Noda himself describes them as 'partners' (相棒 'Aibō').

The volume version includes a scene in which Sugimoto admits to himself he previously was never able to truly acknowledge Asirpa as such but now that she has (attempted) to kill Ogata, he believes she's the one who will fall with him in hell (it's a tentative translation, I'll have to wait till June for the official translation in my country as Vol 30 was just released and for much, much longer to check the English translation) which seems to imply he finally sees her as his partner.

So now of course a part of the fandom can speculate that, although Sugimoto has such a close bond with Asirpa and she has a crush on him that lead her to go so far for him, she'll always be friendzoned to him. I personally hope so.

However many of us come from years of seeing manga/anime set up those situations to imply that, ultimately, the two people involved will become romantic partners in the future, which is why a part of the fandom feels like we got a SugiRipa ending, regardless of the two not being yet in a romantic relation. We feel like it's just the next step, the one that's not shown but that we're meant to figure on our own. From what I know, many didn't like this implication, many wanted Noda to just deny any possible implication Sugimoto might end with Asirpa, which could have been conveniently done if Sugimoto were to remain with Umeko... or were to marry Umeko and then move to Hokkaido with her.

Actually, even leaving Shiraishi to live with them would have helped to give more the impression they were a group of friends than showing them together, going back to Huci's home.

So who says the ending isn't a SugiRipa one isn't technically wrong, as the two aren't together... but who feels the ending is a SugiRipa one isn't wrong either, because the ending seems to hint that's how the characters will end in the future and Noda is old enough to know that's how it would be perceived as he too should have seen plenty of such implications in other stories.

As who read this blog knows, I hated the idea the story could end pairing them up from day one. I hate the implication this could be their future even if, by then, Asirpa will be older.

So I'm not happy with the ending, not even when Noda says they aren't together right then, because that's not where that ending seems to lead.

I won't even go into how unhappy I am with the handling of Ogata, or of Koito, Tsukishima, Tanigaki, Tsurumi and so on because I've already discussed way too much about it.

Which is what had lead me to pull out of the GK world. I still have lovely memories of the first 2/3 of the story and I like to talk about some parts of it but... that's it.

So if you also are displeased with how he was handled, I fear we're on the same boat.

Said so, I'm happy for who's instead happy with how the story was handled. At each it's own, I guess, just let's respect people's views on it and remember everyone if you see something you don't like the back button and block button are your friends.

[goldenkamuyhunting]

"Back in Karafuto, Asirpa didn’t kill Ogata because she lacked the resolve of taking a human life. After she reunited with Sugimoto, she was reassured in how important he is to her. If it’s about protecting Sugimoto, she decided that she’s ready to go to hell. Seeing her determination, Sugimoto also resolves that he’s ready to take the VIP seats to hell with Asirpa. Which is why Asirpa was able to risk her life taking the land deed back. Ogata had a very important role in facilitating this whole process."

it seems to me an unanswered answer. she eliminated Ogata brutally and senselessly. and instead of answering he shifts his attention saying that now Asirpa feels capable of killing people like any Sugimoto … it was better if he didn't say anything. thank you for the continuous observation and research you do

Well...

... let’s start by pointing out that quote comes from the interview @piduai was so kind to translate for us all to read.

I actually banged my head a lot around this answer because I’m not sure I understand it correctly.

So take my words with a huge grain of salt.

A possible explanation is that Noda wanted Asirpa to ‘heal’ Sugimoto. I’ll try to explain myself better. By showing Sugimoto she was willing to kill to protect him, this might have helped him to revalue himself, to accept he has killed people and would always guilty for that but that he can still be loved and accepted tot he point someone else would kill to protect him. In fact when Sugimoto shows up again in the epilogue, he’s in peace with himself and decides to move with Asirpa.

Sometimes in manga happens that you just use this narrative trick to ‘heal’ a character who feels he is unremendable. “I love you to the point I’ll do everything for you, so your life has worth” is a common trick.

Now... if this is the right explanation... well, maybe I had bad luck but I hadn’t seen anyone reaching it with just the manga, meaning if it needed to be verbalized to be understood, it was explained poorly.

Even people who loved the ending seemed to be puzzled by how Sugimoto just seemed fine, meaning people didn’t connect Asirpa being willing to kill Ogata with this... and, honestly, with good reasons since Asirpa shoot Ogata AFTER the latter has shoot in Sugimoto’s direction, so, by the time Asirpa let go of the arrow, Sugimoto’s brains might be dripping on the roof of the train.

Instead Ogata apparently only wanted to trigger her into killing him since Sugimoto’s head doesn’t have a second, gaping hole as far as we know and it’s not possible at that distance Ogata would have missed him.

But, honestly, I might be wrong.

Back in Karafuto I would have said Asirpa didn’t kill Ogata not because she lacked in resolve but because she believed taking a human life was wrong, even if it was in revenge or self preservation.

Instead it seems the idea is she just didn’t do it because ‘she lacked the resolve’.

I also believed Asirpa has plenty of courage since she risked her life more than once.

But no, it was all thanks to Sugimoto being willing to go to hell with her.

And Ogata was the plot device Noda used to quickly wash away Sugimoto’s issues and give Asirpa bravado, which, okay, could have symbolical sense since he was actually the second person Asirpa saved from Sugimoto (the first being Kasahara who’s however unavailable due to being long dead) but... well, this is a personal opinion but I overall don’t like how it was handled.

I could list why, but it would probably feel tedious so I’ll cut the reply here.

Anyway, yeah, I might totally be off track in my reading of Noda’s words so just take this as a theory and nothing more.

Thank you for enjoying my work and for your ask!

[goldenkamuyhunting]

the plot continues to fold into the absurd ... Sugimoto manages to throw gold dust in Tsurumi's eyes even though he is downwind at at least 80 km / h .... and Tanigaki comes back as if he just had abdominal colicThanks for the work you do.

Well...

...the whole chapter is aimed at requiring our suspension of disbelief due to rule of cool.

Trains back then shaked but the characters all have perfect footing except for a moment in which Sugimoto’s foot slip.

The air running at them doesn’t unfaze them at all, even Tsurumi’s hair remain perfectly combed.

Tsurumi’s hand keep on bleeding without him suffering of dizzy spells and I won’t go into how Sugimoto should have already been dead due to blood loss.

Tanigaki who, despite being shoot, is apparently not that badly wounded and can recover a horse and run after the train, no problems.

So it doesn’t really matter if Sugimoto, from that distance, would manage to throw gold dust into Tsurumi’s eyes or not.

The overall idea is that this final fight is cool, the reference to the Hijikata/Inudou fight is cool, so we should give a pass to whatever might not be realistically possible.

“The limit of the Willing Suspension of Disbelief for a given element is directly proportional to its awesomeness.”

The manga relied on rule of cool so many times I lost count.

Of course, if you aren’t impressed, you won’t automatically suspend your belief and the chapter will hardly come out as enjoyable... and it’s hard to be impressed when one is as disappointed as we were.

Even if I can recognize whan Noda is trying to accomplish and I’m sure people who weren’t displeased will find it great... it kind of feel flat to me, I needed more than the author asking me to give him a pass because ‘hey, but this is cool’.

To me it felt more like he was attempting to distract me from the previous chapters with some fireworks than with something really cool.

And, credits when it’s due, using the rule of cool is MUCH BETTER than solving the situation in easy mode (something lucky happened so that Tsurumi ended up blinded without Sugimoto having to think/do/lose anything), as Sugimoto had to think up on something and implement it, aware it means he’ll have less gold in the end... and Noda had to think of a way realistically believable due to which Sugimoto would have his pockets filled with gold dust instead than just having something happen at random for no reason whatsoever or in a way that’s way too convenient.

But yeah, it’s not that impressive, so it’s not enough to win me over again, so yes, it’s sad.

I loved “Golden Kamuy”. I feel bad thinking I’m not really enjoying its ending... but it’s not something I can help. Sorry if I’m not capable to cheer you up either.

[goldenkamuyhunting]

if the last chapter, 314, is this. in the end how many infinite possibilities can there be that some characters "resurrect"?It seems to me a bad way to close a story since it leaves an infinite possibility to present the evolution of the story. what do you think? thank you

First of all, apologies for the late reply.

Sadly this one is a pretty busy month.

As for the ending... open endings aren’t necessarily bad, I think it depends on how one writes them. If well written they can be good, if poorly written they can be terrible and inconclusive. And, of course, we’ve to take into play also the readers personal preferences.

My personal opinion is that the characters who survived to the gold hunt were solely Sugimoto, Asirpa, Shiraishi, Nagakura, Kantarou, Vasily, Koito, Tanigaki and Tsukishima but I get what you’re meaning, some of them seemed dead then they popped up alive so are we sure that characters we assume dead are really dead?

Unless Noda is planning a sequel, my two cents are that yes, they’re meant to be dead, at least as of now. If Noda plans to change things in the volume version... well, that’s up to everyone’s speculation.

Of course in some cases an author makes something deliberately unclear so as to not dissatisfy a divided fandom.

For example you can interpret the ending as a SugiRipa or not because Noda doesn’t say the two will get/are married so that who wanted it and who didn’t want it can interpret the story the way they prefer and everyone is, supposedly, happy.

In regard to the ending in question... I fear I already made clear how I wasn’t fond of the fact we ended up with an epilogue instead than a final chapter, Noda completely skipping how Sugimoto got saved or how he solved his issues or whatever so that he could have his happy ending with Asirpa. -_-

It’s not that I expected them to end up miserable, I actually expected for a long time a happy ending... but I didn’t expect the ending to solve everything with a time skip in which everything got solved off screen and ask me to figure up how things got solved because the manga doesn’t care to tell me anymore. But well, maybe that’s just me and maybe things will be fixed in the volume version.

I don’t really know, we can only wait and see.

Thank you for your ask!

[goldenkamuyhunting]

Good morning ... In the end Asirpa's priority is a document and not Sugimoto's life? How sad.

Sorry, I placed both your asks together, I hope it’s okay.

Hum... no, I don’t think Asirpa is prioritizing the land deed to Sugimoto’s life.

When she tried to grab it, she didn’t think Sugimoto was in danger as the latter had a weapon to defend himself and, for all she knew, might have just fatally wounded Tsurumi so he would remain perfectly safe. I also don’t think she realized she was at risk of falling under the train.

The land deed is however very important to her and to all the Ainu as it would legally insure the ruling government in Japan would have to recognize them the ownership of part of the Hokkaido land.

This would allow them to continue have a land in which to live in their own traditional way as Japan has previously basically taken possession of Hokkaido and didn’t recognize them as the legittimate owners.

Without the land deed they risk for the Japanese government to just do as they please with Hokkaido, keeping on cutting down forests and building cities and whatever they want without them to have a say in the process.

Now, I’m not sure the land deed would be the solution to all their problems but it would still be a great help.

This scene from chap 284 might help to better illustrate why the land deed is important.

It’s also worth to mention Asirpa has a huge crush on Sugimoto so, given the chance, it’s unlikely she’ll want to risk him. In chap 211 she told him (and Shiraishi) to remain where it was safe and that she would take care of things exactly because she didn’t want to risk losing him.

As for Tsurumi... yes, the scene is a bit jumpy likely due to the fact each chap needs to be 18 pages and will probably be expanded in the volume version.

Anyway after Sugimoto tossed Asirpa away, he grabbed Tsurumi’s hand (which was holding a gun). At this point he tried to turn Tsurumi’s hand toward Tsurumi.

It’s unclear if he pulled Tsurumi toward himself or if the latter tossed himself as Sugimoto in an effort to subdue him and force him to let go because the next we know is that Tsurumi is above Sugimoto and Sugimoto has managed to turn Tsurumi’s hand  toward Tsurumi’s chest and have the trigger being pulled so that the gun shoots at Tsurumi’s chest. Due to this Tsurumi remains above him and clenches his teeth in a way that’s meant to remind Sugimoto of their first meeting.

Tsurumi’s nickname is ‘shinigami’ (god of death). Shinigami kills people by snuffling the candles representing their lives. Sugimoto however is nicknamed ‘immortal’. So Tsurumi said if Sugimoto’s flame can’t be snuffled down as it’s immortal, he would just destroy the candle by biting it down and made the same biting gesture.

Since the train is about to fall into Hakodate bay, Tsurumi is just reminding him of that, basically telling him, he’ll cause his death by holding him there.

I hope it helps! Thank you for your asks!

[goldenkamuyhunting]

Replies to assorted asks and messages

So, as promised, I’m going to attempt to reply to all the asks. I put the replies all in a single post because they overall regard all chap 309/310 and I wouldn’t want to submerge anyone with them.

Also, normally when I do post more asks in a single post I just place a photo of the ask in it, but this time, since there are so many, I also transcribed them in case the image won’t load.

Sorry again for my lateness in replying to everyone.

Anonymous asked:

Hello. I hope I have misread the previews of chapter 310. I must say that seeing Ogata die saddens me very much. but if what is seen is Noda's project, I think she is an idiot as an ending to this amazing character. I understand that it's hard to keep the level of a plot high but making it so rambling is really hard to do. what a disappointment. A greeting

I’m sorry you’re sad. I can’t reassure you saying you had misread something because Ogata really died in chap 310, which I guess by now you’ve seen in the scanlations.

I fear I can’t offer you comfort, seeing a beloved character go is just sad.

I am sad too although, what I wish the most, isn’t he had saved Ogata, but for the whole thing to work differently.

I was grief-stricken when Kiro died and the same goes for when I believed Ariko died or when Kikuta died or when Boutarou died but I could let it go because the whole thing was written differently. I’ve watched plenty of characters I love, I know the pain of losing them from when I was a little kid and stumbled upon “Misunderstood” by Florence Montgomery and “Little women” by Louisa May Alcott. No probably it was even earlier than that, when, as a preschooler, I watched Astroganger die. It’s sad but in it comes also the ability of the author in making it happen in a way you can still feel ‘it works’ and it becomes a good kind of grief that emotionally ties you to the story.

For me this didn’t happen this time. Even more than the sadness of losing Ogata, I felt anger for how his arc was handled to the point if I had known in advance this was where we were heading, I would have been more fine with him dying of poison in volume 19 because all he was used for in those volumes that followed was merely to tip Koito about how Tsurumi was the one behind Hanazawa’s death and his kidnapping and then… nothing. Part of his character was retconned, his actions were unclear, his death is rushed so that the plot can move on.

It’s like Noda wanted to kill Ogata in vol 19 but kept him alive to tip Koito and then had no idea what to do with him, dragged back in the story Vasily, which also did nothing whatsoever and ended up having a  rushed death and then, finally, killed Ogata too so the story could go on how he meant for it to go. At least, I might be wrong of course but for me it felt like that and the fact that a character I loved for how engaging and intriguing he was ended up stopping to be so is extremely disappointing.

Sorry if this is not of comfort and ultimately I ended up venting to you. I hope the pain of losing Ogata will go away.

Anonymous asked:

Just to say I totally agree with the gay fan service part in your ramblings, I feel like the fanbase only talks about this instead of the actual scenario and that’s really sad to see. I also appreciate the FMA reference as I always wished for GK, one of my favorites to get an ending as incredible (probably the best ever imo) as FMA. However, if we keep going with the manga comparisons, it does not ruin my whole appreciation of the manga like other « bad » endings did. Cant explain why but it surely will if « that ball in the head » happens to Ogata lol

Well, credits when it’s due, the fan service is loved in each fandom and OSugi or SugiO is a really popular pairing in this fandom so I get why they would talk about it. As I’m probably the only person in the fandom who doesn’t care with who Ogata or Sugimoto end up, for me it falls flat, especially in such a moment but I can see why others would totally love it.

“Fullmetal Alchemist” is absolutely awesome! It’s really too bad I got into it too late. If you’re still enjoying the story I’m happy for you, it’s bad when the story stop being enjoyable so I hope that it’ll never happen to you.

Anonymous asked:

Wow... just fucking wow. I have no words to describe my emotions about what I saw. The fact that several important characters have been sacrificed in the name of the plot device to trigger a particular event, that one of the most clever characters who has survived a lot of shit is left as an imbecile waiting for Sugimoto to kill him because memes is something I don't know how I should process.

For me the problem is the story went in ‘easy mode’.

Characters can and will die in a story but in the endgame it’s usually not out of bad luck but because the enemy overpowered them in a hard struggle that’s why in the endgame you usually use the ‘hard mode’ because it makes their deaths painful but, at the same time, rewarding and more easy to accept.

Although they’re still sacrificed for the plot, they feel as part of it, and not victims of it, just used as devices to carry the story on. At least, that’s how I feel. We’ll see if this will carry on till the end or if Noda, in the last volume, will change things.

Anonymous asked:

Quite sad that I went from waiting anxiously for the unfolding of the story and, especially, the characters, to simply ocasionally checking who died in an uncreative way. The decline has been undeniable since they arrived at Goryokaku. 310 ain't gonna be pretty. That being said, the journey was incredible.

Yeah, it’s sad how, to me, it felt as the story was going downhill and Goryokaku only made it even more evident. I wish we could have said goodbye to our beloved characters in a different way.

@howtodestroyacharacter asked:

I've seen chapter 309 translated. If before I could have had some doubts about the fact that the character of Ogata was badly closed ... now I am sure. Now it would be nice to understand if the motivation is economic (the funders of the project as "anime" have not seen the desired results) or if over time the author has developed a personal annoyance towards this character. An end that is ridiculous. in the last few chapters Ogata has been: an idiot, a hallucinating madman, a poisoned lucid ...

I don’t think Noda hates Ogata, I think he has long planned this… but he hasn’t managed to develop it in a convincing manner. We know the story took various times different directions from the ones he originally planned… we’ve seen the canon incongruence like how the convicts started to kill each other after they escaped only no, wait, they all survived to the slaughter, even Ueji and Prisoner Number 1 who’re so weak and at the very best only 1 died but actually we’re not sure and his corpse was taken by… Wakayama? Really? Hijikata, Ushiyama, Sakamoto and Boutarou let him get away with one skin? Or the skin count which was messed up and even the OFFICIAL timeline listed facts in the wrong order, we’ve read the interviews in which he saw he changed some things and we’ve seen the differences between the magazines and the volumes but this is likely the tip of the iceberg. There are probably much more changes below but the result is they made less coherent the original plan and we ended up stuck with this, something that leaves open tons of questions, feels like a retcon and is just easy for the plot.

Anonymous asked:

[1] To be really honest, i'm actually enjoying those last chapters, the only thing that really gets me worried here is... WHERE IS TANIGAKI? Honesty, i don't mind if Noda decide to kill him in the ending (even that he's my favorite character), but i can't accept that he died falling from the train with the gunshot. I still hope that he return someway so he can have a better ending, being death or alive. But honesty, if the last time that we're going see him is with that...

[2] But honesty, if the last time that we're going see him is with that scene where he was shot... There is also some other details that i wanted to see from other characters, but i guess it was things that i was with high expectations. But anyways, i'm still enjoying those last chapters... And i'll really miss GK when it ends (sorry for the long text)

Supposedly Tanigaki fell off the train after receiving a bullet in his back. If it went through it, it got to his intestines and Tanigaki will face a slow and painful death. If it stopped on its spine it might have broken him and he’s alive but paralyzed from his waist down. The bullet seems to have gone through him so Tanigaki should die a slow death but Tanigaki is Noda’s favourite so, who knows, maybe it manages to survive without any big damage and Noda has merely conveniently moved him out of the danger zone.

It’s great you’re enjoying the chapters, I wish I could do the same but, honestly, I can’t and I really didn’t expect this, to stop enjoying a manga I loved so much.

@violentmaiden asked:

Rushed over here after reading chapter 310 and I just... there are just no words. It truly saddens me to see the direction Ogata took. Such an interesting character, I truly liked him through all the terrible stuff he has done.  I won't say more in case you read this before chapter 310 but I look forward to your reply when you do. I can almost here the boss music lol.

I’ve read chap 310. There’s not really boss music because at that point my expectations had dropped so much I didn’t care anymore and if Ogata has just slipped from the train, broken his head and had an explanatory death dream instead than an hallucination break up for me it would have been all the same. What can I say? Half of the mysteries that were built up around him weren’t explained but just ‘happened’ and Noda was in a rush to get rid of him so as to continue with the story but he has to protect Asirpa’s ‘purity’ and this happened. Whatever, let’s see if all this rush was at least worth getting to the final chapters.

Anonymous asked:

Hello, I love what you do and reading every week what you think of each chapter with the "ramblings and crazy theory time", I've been following you for a while now. I was wondering if you had read the last 310 chapter that came out? I think that Noda has put in place some good ideas but there is this feeling of wanting to rush the story and it spoils the scenario a bit, I find it sad personally.

PS: I can't get over this last chapter

I read the last chapter and I agree with you. There are some good ideas he foreshadowed through the story, like Ogata actually feeling guilt toward Yuusaku’s death and this being the reason why we couldn’t see his face but ultimately it’s an easy way out to tell a story instead than show it and kill a character so the plot can go on without anyone of the main characters facing backlash for his death. But that’s it. We’ll see what Noda plans to do with Tsurumi.

Anonymous asked:

Ueji Keiji did not die, he makes plot for Noda now. It is so disappointing we can only explain it like this.

I understand your feelings but I think the difference between Noda and Ueji is that Ueji disappointed people on purpose while Noda clearly miscalculated. Except for Conan Doyle there are hardly writers who would risk disappointing their fans that close to the end out of the fun of it. The success of “Golden Kamuy” will not only insure Noda income for the volumes, the anime and the gadgets tied to it but also it might be tied to him getting a better pay for his next manga. So really, I don’t think he displeased us on purpose. It’s his first endgame.

In “Supinamarada!” for his own admission, he messed up the start and so his story got discontinued and he used this mistake to make a better start for “Golden Kamuy”. From “Golden Kamuy” he’ll probably learn to make a better ending. We’ll see.

@okapimstari asked:

This train reminds me of the "Train to Busan". They're all dead on it and all immortal as zombies. But seriously, what if this train is their personal hell? And then thanks to his guilt and the "ghost" Yuusaku Ogata was finally able to get out of there. I also think that Ogata is probably the first and only person in this story who committed suicide for the sake of suicide itself. Please, correct me if I forgot someone from other characters.

LOL, it would be interesting if they all were to turn into zombies now but yes, this is clearly meant to be a train to hell, a reference to Sugimoto’s catchphrase he’ll have VIP seats on it.

Well, the story had characters who wanted to die but they actually fought till the bitter end. We’ve Henmi, who wanted to be killed by Sugimoto but didn’t just made it easy for Sugi but made him work for it, Sekiya, who wanted to be struck down by God himself and again, didn’t make things simple for Hijikata and Kadokura at all and Youichirou, who yes wanted to die before his brain were to leave him, but still attempted to fight with Hijikata and only when he was fatally wounded stopped fighting.

If I’ve to search for something similar to what happened to Ogata the closest thing is, of course, post Karafuto, with Heita who, to stop his other bear personality from killing other people people, somehow manages to stop being controlled by his bear personality that much that was needed for him to deliberately trig the amappo into killing himself. And the reason he suffered of split personality is, apparently, because he wanted his family dead as they were greedy and wasted all the gold he collected and he was guilty of taking home and hiding where everyone slept the remains of the prey of a brown bear, which lead the bear to  came there and murder his own family except him, who was saved by the Ainu.  At least this was said in the changes in the volume version, the magazine version skipped how Heita caused a bear to come there and just said one day his wen kamuy killed his family.

Heita’s suicide was also pretty convenient because Heita was a good guy with mental problems who didn’t mean to harm anyone and it would have looked bad on Sugimoto if he had killed him, even if in self defense.

So yeah, I guess Heita too is meant to parallel Ogata, along with Ostrog and Ueji, at least in his death… in a fashion.

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This is all for the asks.

What follows are replies to the messages left on individual post.

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Replies to the ones who left messages on the post “Ramblings and crazy theory time about GK chap 309 “Bloodsoaked””

@bearseark said:

Hey, i dont usually interact with people on this site, but i wanted to say ive really enjoyed your breakdowns, and found them very useful. I dont always agree with you, but it does show me the more intricate details of this story, and some of the failings. Tbh i had no expectations for this ending arc, just cause i couldn't even guess how this would end. Ive been enjoying it, and honestly im glad i experienced this story at all.

I’m glad you enjoyed my breakdowns and that they were of some use to you. Not agreeing is fine, it’s not like I own all the truths, sometimes I mess up interpretations rather badly. If you’re enjoying the story I’m happy for you! That’s great to enjoy a story and I only wish I could do the same with “Golden Kamuy”. Who knows, maybe the next chapters will surprise me. We’ll see.

@deepfriedegg said:

The "something that's been bothering me for a while finally got resolved" is referring to chapter 187, when Ogata uses the same wording. So it is about the fact he's bothered by Asirpa's sense of morality and decision to not kill people, but now she has decided to kill him. As to why he "can't die quite yet", it's for his goal of leading the 7th division, which is why you see the panel of Tsurumi with the land deed. Pretty sure that's the explanation!

You might be totally be up on something, I wouldn’t have said it was a reference to chap 187 because for me, that something got solved in chap 188, when (by mistake) Asirpa shot him and Ogata grinned as if this was proof she too can kill and he has missed it was a mistake. But yeah, the wording is the same so, despite his grin, evidently he was still bothered. Thank you for your input!

And yeah, since later developments proved Ogata can’t have an ulterior reason, evidently he was really putting his trust into Tsurumi helping him out since the story retconned his distrust of Tsurumi. Tsurumi’s Tsurumisexuality made another victim. So yes, I’m willing to bet you’re right on this one too. So, again, thank you.

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Replies to the ones who left messages on the post “Ramblings and crazy theory time about GK chap 310 “Blessed””

@howtodestroyacharacter said:

Good evening. I found your analysis very interesting. I share the unpleasant feeling of Ogata's character's rapid closure with a literary artifice. Moreover, bringing the character out of his character. Compared to you, I fear that Ogata's death does not end with chapter 310. Golden Kamuy has shown us unlikely resurrections and I am afraid that Vasily, who we did not see die, may find him in agony and do something with him. I add that, as far as I understand, in t

The fun part is it seems Noda has used various convicts to parallel Ogata’s death, as if to prepare us to it, and if I realized it sooner I would have realized sooner as well it was going to be a trainwreck because Heita and Ueji and EXPECIALLY Ostrog didn’t really impress me much to say the least… and I would have preferred for him to prepare us less and work more on the whole thing instead. I’ve heard there’s this theory going around that Ogata might be still alive. I’m honestly not a believer but I might be wrong. With the way the story goes, for all we know it might turn Ienaga is actually still alive and will come to eat Ogata and Vasily both and then will acquire sniping abilities and be the one who shoot down Tsurumi. Just joking of course, I understand your fear but I don’t really feel up to think how Noda could make this worse... and I don’t think he wants to, if only for the sake of sales.

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Replies to the ones who left messages on this ask

@Grossmichel said:

Agree so hard w this

I’m glad you do!

@artist-assassin​ said:

agreed. ogata has always been my fav and even though i could understand if he died in the end or didnt get a happy ending, it seems so ridiculous that he might die so early without clearing up ANY of the loose ends (of which there are many) surrounding his character. it almost seems like he went through a great character arc and then reverted back to his original self in the end :/

Yes, I get not everyone might care about the loose ends but there are fans who were interested and, if there were no plans for those loose ends to be developed it was better not to include them at all. In this way it seems they were just things that happened at random, without reason whatsoever. In short ‘easy mode’ again so that the plot could advance even when Noda didn’t know why the characters would come to act such way.

Also, I don’t want to think committing suicide in such situation could be a ‘happy ending’. It’s still a suicide just after a man has a mental break up. But whatever, it might be a cultural thing so people might disagree with me.

@arsfantasia89​ said:

I agree so much with your analysis of this final arc. Plot wise there were too many easy conveniences & it definitely feels rushed. Ogata was such a complex & interesting character and this “train ride” is greatly disappointing. If he dies now and we are only left with the lame excuse he gave Tsurami, it will be a shame. Everyone’s death had an effect on Asirpa (turning to water) & yet we are supposed to smile like Sugimoto did that she may kill him? It feels conflicting. And I miss Hijikata :’(

Yes, Noda used to write much, much better in the first 20 volumes of the story. Ogata got simplified down, plot threads were left loose and he just conveniently removes himself from the plot just because so the characters won’t have to do it. And yeah, it’s really not a good thing Asirpa sacrificed her ideals and decided to kill and attempted to do so and then the story still protects her purity by causing Ogata to die by other means. Although she’s my other fave character, if she could aim at Ogata and shoot him with the intention to kill him, I would have preferred that she had succeeded than this.

@next-futtture said:

Disagree completely, golden kamuy is a story driven by plot, just bc it focused on different characters it doesn't mean we should spend 10 chapters crying their death. We knew they would die, I adore them and some were my favs but I dont want senseless drama, I need to know who tf gets the gold.

Hum… I don’t know if you want a reply, so forgive me if this is not the case. Disagreeing is fine, of course, but I’m not sure where you read I wanted us to spend 10 chapters crying about their death or something similar? If you refer to the plot, I don’t know where you got this impression and sorry if I gave you it but I really don’t want this. If you refer to personal reactions everyone is free to mourn characters as much or as little as they want and I don’t really patrol their feelings. I don’t think anyone want SENSELESS drama, so you’re not alone in this, but people might have interest different by yours and not care about who gets the gold but about other things. It’s a matter of tastes and de gustibus non disputandum est.

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And with this I hope I’ve replied to everyone?

Again sorry for my lateness and thank you for having shared your thoughts on those 2 chapters!

[goldenkamuyhunting]

You’re too nice. Thank you for asking my input on this story.

If it can help the translation is now available in all its three parts here.

Well, I don’t know if my interpretation is right, I might be completely off.

Ogata’s death had mixed responses... like many things in the ending. There’s who loved the ending and who didn’t, there’s who found Hijikata’s death and who hated it, who’s happy with how Koito and Tsukishima were handled and who isn’t at all.

Overall what the most seem to agree is that the manga would have worked better if it hadn’t ended at chap 314.

I understand well your disappointment about Ogata’s death, which, I guess it’s no secret, I also share and on which I could write lengthy metas.

At this point I’ll just wait and see if the volume version will change something. I don’t expect Noda to let him alive, but I just hope the scene will be, at least, executed better. We’ll see.

Thank you for enjoying my post and for contributing to the GK discussions!

"Back in Karafuto, Asirpa didn’t kill Ogata because she lacked the resolve of taking a human life. After she reunited with Sugimoto, she was reassured in how important he is to her. If it’s about protecting Sugimoto, she decided that she’s ready to go to hell. Seeing her determination, Sugimoto also resolves that he’s ready to take the VIP seats to hell with Asirpa. Which is why Asirpa was able to risk her life taking the land deed back. Ogata had a very important role in facilitating this whole process."

it seems to me an unanswered answer. she eliminated Ogata brutally and senselessly. and instead of answering he shifts his attention saying that now Asirpa feels capable of killing people like any Sugimoto … it was better if he didn't say anything. thank you for the continuous observation and research you do

Well...

... let’s start by pointing out that quote comes from the interview @piduai was so kind to translate for us all to read.

I actually banged my head a lot around this answer because I’m not sure I understand it correctly.

So take my words with a huge grain of salt.

A possible explanation is that Noda wanted Asirpa to ‘heal’ Sugimoto. I’ll try to explain myself better. By showing Sugimoto she was willing to kill to protect him, this might have helped him to revalue himself, to accept he has killed people and would always guilty for that but that he can still be loved and accepted tot he point someone else would kill to protect him. In fact when Sugimoto shows up again in the epilogue, he’s in peace with himself and decides to move with Asirpa.

Sometimes in manga happens that you just use this narrative trick to ‘heal’ a character who feels he is unremendable. “I love you to the point I’ll do everything for you, so your life has worth” is a common trick.

Now... if this is the right explanation... well, maybe I had bad luck but I hadn’t seen anyone reaching it with just the manga, meaning if it needed to be verbalized to be understood, it was explained poorly.

Even people who loved the ending seemed to be puzzled by how Sugimoto just seemed fine, meaning people didn’t connect Asirpa being willing to kill Ogata with this... and, honestly, with good reasons since Asirpa shoot Ogata AFTER the latter has shoot in Sugimoto’s direction, so, by the time Asirpa let go of the arrow, Sugimoto’s brains might be dripping on the roof of the train.

Instead Ogata apparently only wanted to trigger her into killing him since Sugimoto’s head doesn’t have a second, gaping hole as far as we know and it’s not possible at that distance Ogata would have missed him.

But, honestly, I might be wrong.

Back in Karafuto I would have said Asirpa didn’t kill Ogata not because she lacked in resolve but because she believed taking a human life was wrong, even if it was in revenge or self preservation.

Instead it seems the idea is she just didn’t do it because ‘she lacked the resolve’.

I also believed Asirpa has plenty of courage since she risked her life more than once.

But no, it was all thanks to Sugimoto being willing to go to hell with her.

And Ogata was the plot device Noda used to quickly wash away Sugimoto’s issues and give Asirpa bravado, which, okay, could have symbolical sense since he was actually the second person Asirpa saved from Sugimoto (the first being Kasahara who’s however unavailable due to being long dead) but... well, this is a personal opinion but I overall don’t like how it was handled.

I could list why, but it would probably feel tedious so I’ll cut the reply here.

Anyway, yeah, I might totally be off track in my reading of Noda’s words so just take this as a theory and nothing more.

Thank you for enjoying my work and for your ask!