#how it connects to Nandermo!

[parttimesarah]

or is it ?

[incorrectquoteswwdits]

Saw this on Twitter about Nandermo

And I’m so mad so maybe thoughts later but

Gotta love that it’s somehow ALWAYS gay people whose relationship is “more” than sex (and thus never canon on screen), it’s always gay people who are said to be lesser if they are sexual. Meanwhile Nadja and Laszlo have sex all the fucking time. The fuck does he mean it would be less profound hello?!!!

problematic??? They literally murder people every episode what 💀

point is I love hilarious hypocrisy that means a presumably straight creator won’t have to go ahead and make the obvious pairing that has written itself and would make sense narratively happen. I am so tired of this type of homophobia, I’m fucking SICK OF IT. You would never say that Nadja and Laszlo’s relationship is less profound or less meaningful, they are love and they have sex and it’s treated as normal.

[bottombaron]

we dont talk enough abt how Nandor actually wanted Guillermo to be a vampire the whole time 😔

[nandermoenthusiast]

guys i have been in a state for days. i am giddy i am gasping for air i am broken inside i am blushing i am sweating i am twirling my hair i am suffering i dont know how to deal with the very real possibility that nandor has loved guillermo for years and has been restraining himself, feigning aloofness, keeping his distance, because all these years he understood that maybe guillermo would never be ready for vampirism - and maybe hes been so depressed in the latest years because hes finally found someone he wants to spend eternity with, and he strongly suspects he will spend eternity missing them instead

[ramavatarama]

Yeah, I have seen it. This is not about Guillermo becoming a Vampire.

This is about Nandor becoming human.

[sharkbath]

This post really making me think of the parallels between Laszlo and how he was turned by the love of his life and Guillermo wanting to have been turned by Nandor but Nandor not doing it yet because Nandor is too dense to realize he loves Guillermo like that yet. Meanwhile this is Nandor everytime Guillermo is gone:

Like Laszlo wants Guillermo to have what he and Nadja have cuz he knows that bond is special and AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

They genuinely care about Guillermo. Laszlo even keeps suggesting they get Nandor to turn him. (And considering how and why Laszlo became a vampire, of course he does.)

But protecting Guillermo is also about protecting Nandor, who wouldn't survive this, because his pride and his heart are just that wrapped up in Guillermo and their relationship.

When they figure out they're in love, literally no one is going to be surprised but them.

[guillerhomo]

i love the guides desperate clawing dedication. it will just be you and i. into the night. she wants nadja so bad she needs nadja so bad she needs nadja to need her back. and nadja not even giving her the time of day. so so so good. just giving her a complete brick wall of emotion. but not rejection. its a dance. the classic stringing along of this show. we know how much she wants that connection. shes said directly how deeply she craves a relationship with other women. and when its right there eager crying out for her she completely ignores it. perfect femslash version of what nandor does to guillermos devotion. that playful “lack of awareness” or so it seems. it knocks nandermo out of the water its what my lesbianism needs oh that sexual chemistry is so so so there please give us more of them

[emmabirb8]

As much as I absolutely adore the Nandermo relationship dynamic, it can be so frustrating sometimes.

Like, Nandor loves Guillermo so so much, but he is too emotionally stunted and repressed to actively show him that in ways that Guillermo can understand, so Guillermo believes he doesn't feel the same way he does. That disconnect becomes even stronger with Nandor's tendency to reject Guillermo's efforts to show him how he feels, especially when he denies Guillermo's attempts for something as simple as a hug every single time. Because of this frustration and because Nandor is often dismissive, aloof, and emotionally closed off, Guillermo lashes out and strains what intimacy they do have, not even realizing how he's hurting his own chances of forming a deeper connection by doing so.

Meanwhile, Nandor does actually express his feelings in LOTS of different instances in his own himbo way, but because Guillermo isn't responding positively to those ways Nandor has found, Nandor is likewise led to believe Guillermo doesn't love him back. (Most everybody has figured this out, but that's why he's held out so long on making Guillermo into a vampire - in Nandor's mind, if Guillermo doesn't love him, he won't stay, but he will stick around if he wants Nandor to sire him.) It's a quintessential version of "the love is requited (very, very requited), they're both just idiots" trope. It's just that the "idiots'' part stems from a total lack of proper communication, both verbal and nonverbal, on both ends.  

See, these bitches are so intensely in love with each other, but they haven't quite figured out that they speak different languages when it comes to attempting to express that love. And I don't just mean that they utilize different love languages either (though Nandor tends to gravitate toward gift giving while Guillermo goes for acts of service). Both of them have actually expressed some form of each of the five love languages to each other at different points through the series. No, what I mean is that, being as repressed as they are, they each are at a point where they need direct, explicit, and blatantly obvious signals from the other to truly believe the love is requited. Buuuttt neither has yet found what those signals should be, partially because they each struggle with verbalizing their feelings (esp to each other's faces) and partially because they each require different signals to really get it. 

Nandor focuses on gift giving and taking action, such as saving Guillermo's life on multiple occasions and trying to make him more happy/comfortable in his role as familiar and bodyguard in various ways. And for someone so repressed and hesitant, that's great! He's at least developed some techniques over the years of showing how he feels. However, in order to convey those feelings to Guillermo clearly, he needs to be more emotionally vulnerable with him and express himself through words as well as actions. Stating his feelings directly is key for Guillermo in particular - it's been shown/implied at least a couple of times when they've had arguments that Guillermo would prefer Nandor be up front and direct about what he's thinking and feeling. And obviously, another important step would be for Nandor to stop his habit of rejecting Guillermo's advances and allow him to follow through on attempts to show his affection (such as through hugging - damn it Nandor, let Guillermo fucking hug you). 

On the other hand, Guillermo focuses on acts of service as well as taking action, such as becoming a vampire slayer in order to keep Nandor safe despite the fact he loves vampires. The problem with Guillermo's expressions is that for the most part, Nandor doesn't perceive his service and actions as indications of love. Nandor thinks Guillermo is only fulfilling his familiar and bodyguard duties and doesn't know or understand the full extent of how above and beyond Guillermo has always gone for his sake out of devotion and love. So for Guillermo to really get it through Nandor's head that he loves him, he needs to make a point to do activities with Nandor outside of his working hours as a familiar/bodyguard, and verbally say that he wants to spend time with him as a "friend" and not just go through the motions of his usual duties. This way, Nandor will (hopefully) understand that Guillermo values their time together and wants to be around him even outside of performing as a servant. And ofc, he ALSO needs to be more emotionally vulnerable and talk more openly with Nandor.

I'm obviously not a therapist, but I think this would fix them. At the very least, it would finally set them in the right direction of realizing and accepting their love for each other and doing something about it. Preferably in the form of Guillermo railing Nandor against that snazzy new bar of his until they both see stars. 💖💖💖

[whomstwedointheshadows]

THE NICEST POSSIBLE INTERPRETATION of PAUL SIMMS

I suggest using this as deposition prep when Nandermo sues for emotional damages.

Earlier in the panel, the writers confirmed a plot card exists on the wall in their writers room with Nandor + Guillermo + Kiss. Look, they’ve thought about it before!

‘People’ even want it. Whomst could be amongst thee people, he’s not naming names. Ignore the history of queerbaiting as a grand tradition of showrunners, did those showrunners ever tell you the writers room periodically comes back to the discussion of a ship and keep a dedicated index card of space to a potential kiss?

So as far as explicit statement that Nandermo ship is not sexual, keep your showy gays away- Paul does not restate it in exact terms. He still support that it’s a love story- even if that love story is not as we want it right now. He’s not confirming in this statement it’s a chaste one of ONLY boss/employee nor is he saying it cannot grow into another form.

Furthermore, this entire statement is in response to a question. So, he confirms the foundation of love story, divergence between what is desired at this moment and what the writers intend, and even the framing as turning=infidelity/broken trust. Now, just because it wasn’t sexual doesn’t mean it doesn’t impact their greater love story.

I think it’s very useful to dig in here to the actual question poised to Paul; the question explicitly eliminates Paul giving a response that acknowledges the plotline as explicitly romance-advancing in function.

(Even if this plotline is instrumental in their greater romantic storyline and personal journeys which may become romantic.)

His response has to be about the connection between them, and he cannot just respond, “oh because they love each other deeply and wanna fuck.” It’s a nuanced response to a question which took away a romance pairing between the two to explain it as about the interpersonal dynamic. That’s also not the driving factor of the characters.

I also think the writers know what ship they made, and constantly have address the question of Is It Ready Yet? Could, from a creator perspective making a show that is character driven, see a difference between ‘just hook up already’ because that’s what the fans want and these two characters become the richest possible combination because of how they grew together? I don’t know about you, but I tweet about just fucking do it already and write long metas on tumblr about epic loves. I want to see an epic story, not just doing something to get it off their backs.

Here’s the big quote:

Knowing that these questions were prewritten, screened, and answers were practiced because that’s their job on a panel to be prepared, it’s striking to me there was no denial of an explicit romantic relationship. He answered a carefully worded question with a carefully developed response. He’s about to get flustered by an audience interaction, and then dig a deeper hole.

Okay, now here comes our true soldier in the trenches interrupting the panel.

Does that final response not feel scripted? I wonder if the writers for an improv comedy show like to pull off jokes and throw people the scent. Or could that be an actual joke? Did they just spend the first four seasons giving Guillermo more autonomy and power and season 5 see Nandor fighting for his attention?

Or is it amusing to see someone twist themselves in knots trying not to state the obvious? Would the writers really be so unaware of everything else problematic on the show?

Just take a minute to think about the humor on this show. Does this feel like a bit to move the conversation along, away from the thing they don’t want to give anything away?

The love between them doesn’t just have to be sexual. {They could also be like, best friends, or something, like Lazlo and Nadja. Do you think there’s more than one type of love you can have for someone?}

Or, if you’re doing press for your show and your job today is to talk to the media and get the hype for season 6 and confirm filming in Jan, do you maybe have some tricksy talking points that will generate interest and capture attention while also preserving a surprise element. If I didn’t want to give too much away about the new season, especially if it was driven by the final episode and had some major developments on a personal and interpersonal level, I wouldn’t leave much room for further questions, probably drop the big news item to make sure the attention stays on that. Maybe the person doing the interview is a professional and knows the things a showrunner won’t give away before it airs, so there isn’t going to be a hard press to circle back unless the writers do it during their response time.

Also, look at the reiteration the writers explore multiple paths and pick the best one. They certainly picked an interesting option, if the goal was not to bathe the ship in romance tropes.

Oh wait, it looks like one writer (also exec producer) who won’t say spoilers wants to make sure there’s one last hook thrown out there. Almost like it’s softening the response from Simms from a ‘nope’ to a ‘watch and see’ like planned remarks at the end of a panel, or something.

My interpretation of Sam’s comment, in the most generous to shippers, is- this is a driving engine and intentional plot of our show. We want to make the best show. They pay off of getting together has to be worth it and interesting. It’s integral to the story we are telling. Part of our story is the journey and we’re on our timetable, not to rush this.

So, what does Guillermo want?

Can you think of why he’d stick around the vampires, as per the format, if not to become one?

TLDR: the bait is still on the hook. They’re going to keep it there as long as possible. Nothing has been ruled out, in fact it seems like they’re actually building against what they say would be the problematic aspects. I wonder if comedy writers ever a) keep secrets before something is even filmed so who knows what they decide is the best pathway on an improv show or b) tell jokes in plain sight. If they do things to twist our expectations.

It’s a queer show, so this is not queer baiting. It’s just a Will-they-Won’t-they. There are a lot of choices in plot and character arcs which point to someone in the writers room being fluent in better queer characters if not relationship representation. One would think, as a writer, they would Know Their History of Queerbaiting and associated tropes. {Personally, the ‘No One Dies in Shadows’ seems like a nose bop at Buffy, but that’s a meta for another day. }

I find the boss/employee line so unserious considering everything else in the show, and I wonder what tumblr would be like if we focused on the Kiss Card left on the writer’s wall instead.

[python-nebula]

I think the fact that a lot of the fandom sees 'people can be in love and not have sex' as 'this ship isn't canon fuck you', says a lot about how people view sex in relation to romantic relationships. I want nandermo to be canon too, and I do think that the cast are being unnecessarily cryptic about it (maybe to the extent of shipbaiting like everyone is saying), however the amount of people I've seen basically equating the above two statements says a lot. I know the show is very centred around sex, and therefore we might connect 'characters having sex' to 'their ship being canon', but I've seen some blatant aphobia. I've seen so many people say that 'that character can't be ace they're just repressed', 'the showrunners want to keep it chaste', things like that and it just makes me think, would you say that to an ace person if you met them in real life? I could be making a big deal out of nothing or misinterpreting things but honestly our community are told that we do that daily so I don't know.

[cookinguptales]

Though... I guess I am trying to counterbalance things that make me unhappy with things that make me happy... So if the Barbie thing is irritating me (and if Barbie wasn't even a movie that I thought reached its full potential) then let me rec a women-led media project that I really, really enjoyed instead.

*rubs temples* Um... I'm going through the women-led media projects I've enjoyed over the past few years in my head. Fewer than I would hope, but I've also admittedly been watching fewer movies the last few years since I moved out of Center City.

Honestly, the one that comes to mind immediately is the first season of Russian Doll, which is one of my favorite tv shows that I've seen in the past five years. Natasha Lyonne was, as ever, incredible, and it was probably my favorite take on a time loop that I've ever seen.

(I was asked a lot if Groundhog Day was influential when I was writing my nandermo time loop story, but if I had to pick any piece of media that actually influenced it, it was probably Russian Doll and its emphasis on time loop as metaphor for trauma and coping mechanisms.)

The thing about time loops is that I feel like you really have to use the idea of time when you're using them. Russian Doll wasn't just about living the same day over and over again. It was about the cycle of abuse and an overall inability to escape from the past. It was about the dangers of becoming too solitary, and how becoming dislodged from the world isn't that different from becoming dislodged from time. It was about how genuine connections are what can pull us out of these horrible, damaging cycles, whether they be time loops or harmful coping mechanisms.

I loved it because it was a show about time loops, but it was also a show about humans and what makes them tick. I thought that Nadia and Alan were both super interesting protagonists, and I thought them growing and learning together was beautiful. I thought that the increasingly literal depictions of Nadia's trauma were haunting and horrifying and beautiful.

I think people often say that they don't like tropes and cliches when they really mean that they don't like them when they're handled lazily. I think that Russian Doll is one of the best examples I've seen of a piece of media utilizing the actual physical form of a trope in order to further what it wants to say rather than twisting the writing of the piece to better suit a trope. It used the time loop to talk about the time loops that humans place themselves in every day, and it used the time loop to explore how many ways a person might try to gnaw their own leg off if caught in a trap.

The time loop was literal but also a metaphor and I honestly just thought it was incredible. Fully recommend.

[sour-grape-s]

As we are now half way through season 5, I will make a wwdits prediction for the end of season. (This is obviously a mistake as the only thing I got right last season was Colin Robinson returning fully grown).

However from where we are post 5x05:

- There is definitely a gut punch or two coming for Guillermo/nandermo. They are really not shying away from Nandor’s feelings this season. Guillermo is obvs very preoccupied but they still sprinkle enough to say okay these two are absolutely down for each other no question. Couple that with Guillermo’s secret and we have to get ready for pain! 🥲

- I know we are die hard fans of this show but they are really leaning into Nandor’s need for Guillermo and even giving enough self awareness for 1 second to admit he wanted to impress Guillermo (!!!). Which makes me even more sure whatever is coming is going to be rough

- I think Guillermo will come to a point where he leaves the house ‘for good’ at the end of the season. He’ll come to a point where he’s transformed fully (or as far as he’ll get as a hybrid or whatever) and Nandor will find out and I suspect (hope!) they have another epic fight where neither will truly be able to kill each other but Guillermo will decide it’s best for him to go his own way.

- Who do I think will encourage/suggest this?? Laszlo. They’ve deliberately paired them this season and Laszlo is the one who has been helping Guillermo figure himself out right?! So I think actually Laszlo will think it’s best for Guillermo to ‘find himself’ as a vampire away from them and the house (I guess after some kind of Nandor/Guillermo fall out). I see him doing it out of genuine care for Guillermo and as the most human of the vampires, thinking Guillermo should ‘spread his stupid baby bat wings’ so to speak. I’m aware this part is very much wishful thinking on my part as I’m just such a fan of this paring so 🤷🏼‍♀️

- That being said they’ve continuously been keeping them connected this season - anyone notice Laszlo was the one who knew Guillermo wasn’t at the house in 5x05 and he was the one who answered the phone to him! Would he have given the tiniest shit in past seasons?! I don’t think so…

Anyway the crux of my point is this… Guillermo leaves and he and Nandor have a big angst blow up beforehand and that’s the cliffhanger/end. This then opens the door for a certain Jinn wish from Nandor for an extra cliffhanger…

Of course as always with this show there will be something so left none of us have even thought of it!

I’ll enjoy coming back and seeing just HOW wrong I am after the season finale 🫠🤭

[g0sts]

Guillermo, salmon, coconut, death 🥥

jamie u MENACE droppin all three ask memes at once, come over rq i just wanna talk (talking is code for fist-fighting you on behalf of how long this is gonna be)

(from this ask meme, this other ask meme, and this third one!)

first up Let's Talk About Gyemmo!

My favorite thing about him - he's Nice, sort of, when it benefits him, but he's definitely not A Good Person. he's just like me in that he's got that baby-faced Charm combined with a polite disposition that enamors people to him, but he's ruthless. he's just sweet about it. only this bitch can give up almost everything in his life in pursuit of pure selfishness and then struggle to accept that there's consequences ♥

My least favorite thing about him - mans has got to stop Leaving For Good For Realsies This Time at least once a season (twice in season two!!), he's gonna be the boy who cried Gone For Ever ('whale eyes at the coming finale but pretending i don't see it' voice)

My favorite canon relationship - you know im a nandermo bitch. they make each other worse and they might just turn out better for it. it's like watching two dogs who both want to play but are both just doing the little bow thing bc neither dog is taking the bait to chase so they're just whimpering and pawing at each other thinking "why doesn't he wanna [redacted] 🥺" it's pathetic, sort your shit out guys

My favorite non-canon relationship - That Year In London With Nadja. they never showed it to us but we all know it happened. they did mani-pedis and nearly killed each other multiple times and then she hired him as her accountant

The sexuality I headcanon for him - baby boy canonically gay and that's such a win ♥ i do hc him as trans but you knoowwwww that's some juicy little projection i like to do~

What I’d do if I could spend the day with him - in all honesty i do not anticipate that we would get along! like if i'm lucky he lures me home to be dinner but probably we would end up somewhere with a line unable to surpass our own giant social walls enough to do anything Cool. like, ok. is this pre s5? if i watch someone take a fork and knife to a burger i am Leaving Immediately

Random fact about him I like - the little snippets we get about his family life and what he gets up to off-camera. tell us more about the meat dress for your cousin's quinceañera!! u freaque, gimme more of this shit!! i'm obsessed!!

OK WE MADE IT LET'S GOOO

Salmon: How many pairs of sunglasses do I own? triangles, tiny shades, blurple circle shades, alien circle shades, ghosts, cat circle shades, and i think i still have the coral foldable shades but i haven't seen em in a while? so 6 or 7. for now.

Coconut: A subject I enjoy learning about crafting historyyyy how shit's madeeee show me the machinesss show me vintage vintage patterns, show me how vikings made yarn and then make a scarf out of it

AND LASTLY

Death: 3 things I wanna do before I die 1) go to New York City 2) get a tattoo 3) i wanna get married 👉👈 specifically i am holding out hope that i can connect with someone and forge that level of love trust and commitment that makes you decide "yeah this is a Forever thing" even if Marriage Specifically isn't on the table for whatever reason. thot i had it once! so i can get there again! just gotta do the hard part and meet the right person, which includes meeting a lot of Not the right people 🤷‍♂️

[iwikpines]

i used to really like wwdits... like, i live in spain and here the episodes always air at 4 am, so i used to stay awake to watch them. but this last season, well... i always waited one or two days since the episodes aired because i really didn't care that much. they bored me. i kept looking at my phone through the whole thing. i just didn't feel the same connection to the characters, the same investment in the story. i didn't care. i just watched them because whatever, man, let's see if something new happens for real now.

and i was actually looking forward to the finale. i didn't like season 4 either, but at least it left you with this huge cliffhanger that made you think "okay, maybe the next one won't suck". but, this time, not only the episode was the worst, but it didn't either left you with the feeling that the season was concluded. or that the characters had learned anything.

i'm not even invested in the relationships between characters anymore (nandermo, or ladja, or anything at all, i don't care if they are platonic or romantic), and every previous arch seems to be broken or simply forgotten. i know this is supposed to be a silly show with silly jokes and no drama nor heavy plot lines, but... man, this is just bad writing. im sorry. I'll keep watching this, just to see if they are able to fix anything at all (which i deeply doubt). and i don't think i'll enjoy it very much, but i guess it saddens me to think of how much i liked this show and not give it a chance to be a little better. just half as good as it used to be. i won't be asking for more

so i watch wwdits. and i gotta say. that was the worst episode i've ever seen of not just this show, but maybe any show. ever. wow. i'm actually impressed with how bad it was.

i'm considering doing a more serious dissection of how Not to do a character arc or narrative framing. but for now, let me just share some general thoughts:

undoing guillermos vampirism totally shits on his character arc of standing up for himself and taking what he wants regardless of the morality of it. i hate it and it sucks.

also, the reasons make no sense. guillermo has had zero problem killing people until now. the roundabout way they try to explain it, like wow, he could smell someone's shampoo and imagined him picking it out and felt their mutual humanity... why would that not apply to any of the other people he's killed? he's even had somewhat of a relationship with some of them. yet all he's ever done when they die is give a distressed frown AT MOST.

guillermo is a killer and always has been. lately, he's even proud of it. that has, metaphorically, been part of him "embracing who he is."

but what bothered me even more was nandor. we all know this situation (guillermo being turned by someone else) is his fault for neglecting turning guillermo for 13 years... but instead, everything is framed as guillermos own fault for having someone else turn him. like - look at how mad you made nandor, guillermo. look what you've caused, guillermo. look what you made him do.

which, yikes. i feel like i dont need to say how bad that is.

even worse than nandors jealous rage.... i really hate the stupid condescending "forgiveness" afterwards. thats actually worse. like guillermo was right to be meek and apologetic for this, like it IS something he needs to be forgiven for. but its "okay" now because nandor "forgave" him. lets just move on. no need to interrogate nandors entitlement over guillermo.

you can argue theres the unstated idea that nandor is overreacting. sure. we, the audience, dont want guillermo to die, and thats part of the irreverent way the show treats death and killing.

but still, yknow?

i feel like i'm taking crazy pills, because the real question isnt whether nandor should "forgive" guillermo. in this context, guillermo has done nothing wrong. nandor totally reneged on their agreement as vampire-familiar. guillermo is supposed to serve nandor, and in return, nandor is supposed to turn guillermo. but he keeps not doing it, and in general being shitty towards guillermo. so guillermo takes matters into his own hands.

that COULD be a great character beat. it could confront nandor with his selfishness, and this uneven power relationship where he gets guillermo to stay by not fulfilling his promise.

but the question of whether guillermo should forgive nandor for not turning him, or for throwing a fit when someone else does? not even brought up. even though that really seems like the most pressing question. its crazy how subservient and apologetic guillermo suddenly is, like its S1 all over again. he does some token yelling at nandor, but his primary emotion is clearly guilt. its not enough to remotely change the shitty framing.

look. this show doesnt exactly have much "morality", and i dont want it to. i dont want any of these guys to become upstanding citizens. i like the irreverent tone and how theyre all killers.

but i do care about character arcs and agency.

guillermo has been treated like hes inferior the whole time hes been a familiar. and hes put up with it because he wanted to be a vampire. so by becoming a vampire, he forces the relationship to become equal. he also finally gets what he wants. which is ESPECIALLY poignant when it happens regardless of what nandor wants. it takes back his own agency over the situation, because nandor CAN'T hold it over his head anymore.

and then nandor doesnt like it. and goes into a murderous rage because of own entitlement at being the one to turn guillermo. thats fine as a starting point to a character arc, but guillermo doesn't even stand up for himself. he doesnt fight back as he should - or really, would, given how he's evolved to be more assertive. and then its reinforced by the stupid "forgiveness", like nandor has any right to forgive someone who did nothing wrong. it sets up this convenient scenario where nandor is not confronted for being a shitty master, but guillermo IS confronted for taking control of his own life.

and now, just as conveniently, guillermo just... doesnt like being a vampire, either. so nandor gets to further be a "good friend" making amends by helping "unturn" him. all framed like its about guillermo finding out what he "really" wants.

this is lame and it sucks. not only because guillermos reasons make no sense (again, he's been a killer this whole time? if anything, his arc is more accepting his own lack of morality), but because it resets the chessboard in a way where nandor doesnt have to learn anything.

nandor doesnt have to confront the sting of guillermo having agency to make this choice without him. he doesnt have to deal with the fact that it never got to be him who turns guillermo. he doesnt have to be forcibly confronted with the fact that he now has to treat guillermo as an equal, because guillermo now doesn't need anything from him.

and it sucks because all that could actually be a great jumping off point for them to, despite everything, start a real relationship. maybe even a romantic one. they could mutually realize they actually care about each other. regardless of this pact.

and you can say that by guillermo deciding to be human (as extremely lame and deeply uncool as that is), it also gives them this "equality." because he would stay with the vampires because he wants to, not because he needs something from nandor.

but you're missing the point - its NANDOR who needs to learn. its HE who needs to be confronted by guillermo making his own choices.

so guillermo just... conveniently changing his mind because he was a full vampire for one (1) fucking day and suddenly decided he's too good to kill people?

it robs nandor of that entire arc. and no, i'm not counting his stupid "forgiving" guillermo as learning to treat him like an equal. that would require a lot more introspection about his own entitlement. that would require him to actually say with his chest that guillermo had every right to make this choice, and its not on nandor to forgive him, its on guillermo whether he would forgive nandor.

that doesn't happen. what actually happens is nandor decides to show guillermo "mercy," which, again, firmly places the agency in nandor's hands. at no point does he have to be vulnerable and accept that guillermo might not want to be with him. at no point does he have to introspect about how he's treated him this whole time.

also. there is a long, proud line in patriarchal thinking of husbands "forgiving" their wives for perceived "disobedience," which only reinforces the husband as the head of the household and that said wives "should" have been more obedient. forgiveness is not always an act of kindness. sometimes it's very condescending. which it is here.

(same for the interpretation i've seen from some, that nandor "always knew" guillermo wasn't cut out to be a vampire. like that's why he didn't turn him. what a horrible, condescending idea. i don't know how you can look at nandor being like "i'm not going to give you what you want, because i know better than you" and not think it's shit.)

yes, i'm aware of the cheating metaphor. but its a bad metaphor. at least, not without acknowledging that its been an unequal relationship for 13 years where one partner has been neglecting the other constantly. at that point, the nuance should really come out and maybe the partner "cheating" isnt the worst here.

but that doesn't happen.

also... it's just a bad episode. like. in general. like the whole thing with the guide, where you think she actually gets to assert herself? sounds great. too bad its totally undone by gaslighting her into thinking they do like her and are nice to her. like the problem is they just didnt verbalize that "enough." thats yet another bullied or ignored character whose arc of standing up for themselves (even by immoral means, because its an immoral fantasy show) is undercut.

it sucks. guillermo sucks for losing his defiant streak (and metaphorical empowerment through vampirism), nandor sucks for being entitled. this whole show sucks. i suck for bothering to stick with it so long. i'm done. i'm out.

[ineffably-human]

Hey there, vampire family, let's talk about sex. (Again. Because I think I've written some of the broad strokes here once before.)

I see a lot of people saying Nandermo is on its way because Nandor realizes how he feels now. And I am not trying to kill the party vibe, seriously I'm not. But I think he's still got a lot of dots to connect. Nandor knows 'Guillermo matters to me' and 'I am doing this thing to impress Guillermo' and 'I am mad Guillermo finds this other person more interesting', all of which says Guillermo is a very important friend who can make him do stupid shit - but certainly isn't someone he loves or would consider a romantic partner.

On the flip side, and this may be contributing to Guillermo's status as a vampire: I think Guillermo's sexuality is blossoming, but he's still holding back. Guillermo has always framed sex as something he doesn't want to talk about, because that's an inhibition he was raised with (and he was closeted to boot). He has heart-eyes aplenty for Nandor, he's been jealous of Nandor's relationships, but it's never clear he's yearning for anything more physical than a hug.

I still don't think he knows that's something he wants from the relationship. In fact, he wants to close his eyes and walk away from most sex he sees - even though he's been surrounded by the weirdest, kinkiest, most casual sex for well over a decade, as part of the very lifestyle he wants. (And Nadja's now confirmed, the vampires fuck each other all the time.)

That doesn't even change with Freddie, by the way, where they awkward-hug hello and walk arm in arm. Then we cut to him walking in on Freddie and Nandor snuggling naked in furs. He doesn't ever kiss Freddie, but Freddie's clone does. The contrast could not be more clear.

Guillermo's said that he doesn't feel any sexier, like he expects being a vampire to change that for him. But does that mean it would make him more desirable or more open to desire?

(And if Guillermo is some form of ace that's totally fine too, of course, it'd be so cool to have an ace vampire of all things. But I don't know if the show's going there. And it'd be weird if Guillermo's dream this whole time was actually some kind of forced self-conversion therapy.)

But he's making inroads. Last year he came out and had a boyfriend, however chaste that was. Whether Guillermo is a virgin or not, his bungled turning is treated like a horrible first sexual experience - we've all talked about that by now. And if you contrast that with Guillermo's Pride experience...

Even in the scene before the space thing, his conversation with Nandor hits different. Guillermo's vibe with Nandor is different than everyone else in the house, and his reaction to Nandor going to space feels downright flirty. And I am fascinated with how the show frames Nandor's descent: Guillermo reacting to Nandor crashing with 'oh my God' (and the vampiric reaction that gives him, a sudden puff of smoke, aka heat!). Nandor looming over Guillermo naked to gloat, before he ever approaches the crowd. For a moment, the joke isn't that Nandor's a bare-assed flaming disaster in front of everyone. It's something that's completely between the two of them.

And then they're walking side by side, a true duo again for the first time in a while, when they come across the rest of the household - and Guillermo immediately nopes out. Which, well, is understandable. There's a lot of reasons he doesn't want to touch that, literally.

But Nandor asks, "are you sure?" Because in his head he just got his friend back, and sex to Nandor is as casual as breathing.

Sex as a vampire is just something you do, and any deep emotion is secondary and special. I think it's a mental hurdle Guillermo has to navigate, either by some sort of supernatural change or (I suspect) just understanding what that means to him. And I think they're going to sleep together in a casual way - maybe as part of that sexy-gross episode Paul Simm has been teasing, which certainly sounds like a vampire orgy to me - before Nandor realizes he's feeling anything like love.

But it's going to feel different than anything else in the room. And that's going to uncork some things for both of them - very different things, but both coming to the same conclusion.

[gertyorkess]

currently thinking about how this season is going to be about guillermo learning how to find himself and explore his slayer skills more and learning how to separate himself apart from just being nandor’s familiar and the episode called farewell and how it’s the second to last episode and the way that there’s still members of the vampiric council out there and here’s how we have can a direct parallel to s2 with the vampires saving guillermo