#how it connects to Nandermo!

[parttimesarah]

or is it ?

[incorrectquoteswwdits]

Saw this on Twitter about Nandermo

And I’m so mad so maybe thoughts later but

Gotta love that it’s somehow ALWAYS gay people whose relationship is “more” than sex (and thus never canon on screen), it’s always gay people who are said to be lesser if they are sexual. Meanwhile Nadja and Laszlo have sex all the fucking time. The fuck does he mean it would be less profound hello?!!!

problematic??? They literally murder people every episode what 💀

point is I love hilarious hypocrisy that means a presumably straight creator won’t have to go ahead and make the obvious pairing that has written itself and would make sense narratively happen. I am so tired of this type of homophobia, I’m fucking SICK OF IT. You would never say that Nadja and Laszlo’s relationship is less profound or less meaningful, they are love and they have sex and it’s treated as normal.

[thatblackdress]

Have we talked about the credits song for wwdits 6x07?

“Three men can keep a secret if two of them are dead”. I don’t think this was an existing song; was it just made for this episode? Basically it’s a Benjamin Franklin quote on being careful who you confide in.

Anyway, this song immediately kicks in after the Guillermo/Jordan scene where Guillermo is promoted to The Vault, to protect Cannon Capital’s secrets.

The song then pauses, for Nandor to go visit The Guide except he encounters Jerry instead, before it kicks back in.

Anyway the two main plots surrounding the vampires right now is Jordan, supported by Guillermo (The Vault), and Jerry, supported by The Guide. Is this just accidental mirroring or deliberate?

Wondering if the S6 endgame is heading towards Jerry vs Jordan (with the main vampires caught up in it), or Jerry & Jordan vs the main vampires? 🤔

[bottombaron]

we dont talk enough abt how Nandor actually wanted Guillermo to be a vampire the whole time 😔

[nandermoenthusiast]

guys i have been in a state for days. i am giddy i am gasping for air i am broken inside i am blushing i am sweating i am twirling my hair i am suffering i dont know how to deal with the very real possibility that nandor has loved guillermo for years and has been restraining himself, feigning aloofness, keeping his distance, because all these years he understood that maybe guillermo would never be ready for vampirism - and maybe hes been so depressed in the latest years because hes finally found someone he wants to spend eternity with, and he strongly suspects he will spend eternity missing them instead

[ramavatarama]

Yeah, I have seen it. This is not about Guillermo becoming a Vampire.

This is about Nandor becoming human.

[sharkbath]

This post really making me think of the parallels between Laszlo and how he was turned by the love of his life and Guillermo wanting to have been turned by Nandor but Nandor not doing it yet because Nandor is too dense to realize he loves Guillermo like that yet. Meanwhile this is Nandor everytime Guillermo is gone:

Like Laszlo wants Guillermo to have what he and Nadja have cuz he knows that bond is special and AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

They genuinely care about Guillermo. Laszlo even keeps suggesting they get Nandor to turn him. (And considering how and why Laszlo became a vampire, of course he does.)

But protecting Guillermo is also about protecting Nandor, who wouldn't survive this, because his pride and his heart are just that wrapped up in Guillermo and their relationship.

When they figure out they're in love, literally no one is going to be surprised but them.

[thebennsofdallas]

In defense of Season 6 (What we do in the Shadows)

I’ve seen talk about season 6.  How people are disappointed. How the writers have blown it, how Guillermo and Nandor are in so few scenes together, how canon has been thrown by the wayside.

So, I have to gently disagree. I think this is the best season of the series and that’s coming from a full-on Nandermo truther (with Laszlermo tendencies). I think this season HAS moved Guillermo and Nandor’s story forward. But it’s so much more than that. These 8 episodes have connected all the vampires in ways I never expected.

Think of all we learned about the vampires in just the first episode. Guillermo and Nandor apparently made an agreement to stay away from each other until Guillermo got his life together. (UNTIL. Keep that in mind.) Nandor obviously didn’t give a fuck about that and has been keeping tabs on him in secret. How else can he be so matter-of-fact about being separated from Guillermo and also, know where he was working?

Nadja has longed to interact more with humans and Laszlo forbade it, which caused a massive rift between them that lasted years. Man of science Laszlo had a dream to reanimate life out of dead tissue that he gave up on in favor of spending more time wanking. And Colin Robinson has been lonely for a real friend, even one made out of random body parts.

That’s a lot of stuff there, good stuff. Yes, we briefly had to deal with the prospect of Jerry destroying our show (okay, that was probably just me) but it turns out, Jerry was just a vehicle to reveal more about our beloved characters (I think Jerry will be a factor in the finale but that’s another story). The same with Guillermo’s departure from the vampires’ employ. It was barely a separation. Nadja and Nandor felt compelled to follow Guillermo all the way to his office, to “protect him”. And Laszlo restarted his project to create new life and allowed Colin Robinson to join in.

The writers are mixing and matching the cast in a way they’ve never done before. Nandor/Nadja, Laszlo/Colin, Colin/Nadja, Laszlo/Nandor. It’s a fresh spin on the old dynamic and it’s hilarious. And it demonstrates how much these four care about each other and that feels new, too.

As for Nandor and Guillermo, it might feel like they aren’t together as much but when they are together, it packs a punch. Except for the beginning of episode one, when Nandor childishly pretends like he doesn’t remember Guillermo, there’s been no more pretense. Guillermo has always worn his heart on his sleeve where Nandor is concerned but now, Nandor is wearing his there, too and it’s exciting to see our suspicions confirmed in a big, big way — these two idiots love each other and it’s just a matter of time before they have to acknowledge it. I don’t expect a vampire wedding in the future but something is coming. I just know it.

Episode 9 tomorrow, y’all. Episode 9 is where this show usually goes off the rails and into a ditch. So hold on. It’s gonna be a bumpy night.

[sociallyanxiouspyrate]

Wwdits spoilers!!!

Might get hate for this but whatever, i'm HAPPY nandermo didn't have a romantic relationship in the show. They needed to build a healthy one, which i think they did but it was on unsteady ground, before they broach romance. The biggest block for them getting together how I interpreted things is that there's mutual feelings there but Nandor knows he can't handle having a close romantic relationship with Guillermo just to loose him because he's mortal. He's already very emotionally connected to him why deepen things just to loose him and hurt so much worse? I know it's unreasonable but Nandor doesn't seem to get over that idea before the show ends, just proving to me even more there had to be alot more development for them to get into a romantic relationship in their situation.

+ leaving us knowing theres continued story but none cannon? Leaves us to develop them entering a romantic relationship however we want in our minds and fanfic, so like, that's the ultimate win in my book

[dongoverlord]

nandermo shippers aren’t the main audience of wwdits tbh. The majority of the viewer base is not involved in shipping fandom and generally considers it the Matt Berry show

that's real and fair but it's very weird they decided to make the interactions btwn the two So Weird just in an attempt to dissuade shippers. this isn't my first time seeing this, and I think in the modern age with how connected staff are to the fandom of their show (especially w how they referenced fandom culture in the show too), I think some saw nandermo as "dumb" and decided to try and do smth abt it. which. just made the show demonstrably Worse.

whenever writers try to spite their fanbase it feels so obvious to me and always come off as weird bc like?? why do you hate ppl interpreting ur media in diff ways?? it's like sherlock all over again ngl

[guillerhomo]

i love the guides desperate clawing dedication. it will just be you and i. into the night. she wants nadja so bad she needs nadja so bad she needs nadja to need her back. and nadja not even giving her the time of day. so so so good. just giving her a complete brick wall of emotion. but not rejection. its a dance. the classic stringing along of this show. we know how much she wants that connection. shes said directly how deeply she craves a relationship with other women. and when its right there eager crying out for her she completely ignores it. perfect femslash version of what nandor does to guillermos devotion. that playful “lack of awareness” or so it seems. it knocks nandermo out of the water its what my lesbianism needs oh that sexual chemistry is so so so there please give us more of them

[emmabirb8]

As much as I absolutely adore the Nandermo relationship dynamic, it can be so frustrating sometimes.

Like, Nandor loves Guillermo so so much, but he is too emotionally stunted and repressed to actively show him that in ways that Guillermo can understand, so Guillermo believes he doesn't feel the same way he does. That disconnect becomes even stronger with Nandor's tendency to reject Guillermo's efforts to show him how he feels, especially when he denies Guillermo's attempts for something as simple as a hug every single time. Because of this frustration and because Nandor is often dismissive, aloof, and emotionally closed off, Guillermo lashes out and strains what intimacy they do have, not even realizing how he's hurting his own chances of forming a deeper connection by doing so.

Meanwhile, Nandor does actually express his feelings in LOTS of different instances in his own himbo way, but because Guillermo isn't responding positively to those ways Nandor has found, Nandor is likewise led to believe Guillermo doesn't love him back. (Most everybody has figured this out, but that's why he's held out so long on making Guillermo into a vampire - in Nandor's mind, if Guillermo doesn't love him, he won't stay, but he will stick around if he wants Nandor to sire him.) It's a quintessential version of "the love is requited (very, very requited), they're both just idiots" trope. It's just that the "idiots'' part stems from a total lack of proper communication, both verbal and nonverbal, on both ends.  

See, these bitches are so intensely in love with each other, but they haven't quite figured out that they speak different languages when it comes to attempting to express that love. And I don't just mean that they utilize different love languages either (though Nandor tends to gravitate toward gift giving while Guillermo goes for acts of service). Both of them have actually expressed some form of each of the five love languages to each other at different points through the series. No, what I mean is that, being as repressed as they are, they each are at a point where they need direct, explicit, and blatantly obvious signals from the other to truly believe the love is requited. Buuuttt neither has yet found what those signals should be, partially because they each struggle with verbalizing their feelings (esp to each other's faces) and partially because they each require different signals to really get it. 

Nandor focuses on gift giving and taking action, such as saving Guillermo's life on multiple occasions and trying to make him more happy/comfortable in his role as familiar and bodyguard in various ways. And for someone so repressed and hesitant, that's great! He's at least developed some techniques over the years of showing how he feels. However, in order to convey those feelings to Guillermo clearly, he needs to be more emotionally vulnerable with him and express himself through words as well as actions. Stating his feelings directly is key for Guillermo in particular - it's been shown/implied at least a couple of times when they've had arguments that Guillermo would prefer Nandor be up front and direct about what he's thinking and feeling. And obviously, another important step would be for Nandor to stop his habit of rejecting Guillermo's advances and allow him to follow through on attempts to show his affection (such as through hugging - damn it Nandor, let Guillermo fucking hug you). 

On the other hand, Guillermo focuses on acts of service as well as taking action, such as becoming a vampire slayer in order to keep Nandor safe despite the fact he loves vampires. The problem with Guillermo's expressions is that for the most part, Nandor doesn't perceive his service and actions as indications of love. Nandor thinks Guillermo is only fulfilling his familiar and bodyguard duties and doesn't know or understand the full extent of how above and beyond Guillermo has always gone for his sake out of devotion and love. So for Guillermo to really get it through Nandor's head that he loves him, he needs to make a point to do activities with Nandor outside of his working hours as a familiar/bodyguard, and verbally say that he wants to spend time with him as a "friend" and not just go through the motions of his usual duties. This way, Nandor will (hopefully) understand that Guillermo values their time together and wants to be around him even outside of performing as a servant. And ofc, he ALSO needs to be more emotionally vulnerable and talk more openly with Nandor.

I'm obviously not a therapist, but I think this would fix them. At the very least, it would finally set them in the right direction of realizing and accepting their love for each other and doing something about it. Preferably in the form of Guillermo railing Nandor against that snazzy new bar of his until they both see stars. 💖💖💖

[artsyaech]

the finale of what we do in the shadows was... a lot - A Very Long Textpost

[PT: the finale of what we do in the shadows was... a lot: A Very Long Textpost. end PT]

now, i'll be completely honest; i had pretty low expectations going in, and now, after watching it, i have thoughts.

first, i'll go over why i had low expectations. while a lot of season 6 was pretty good, it didn't feel like a final season at all. yes, a part of the show's charm is how it's not as structured as other tv shows, with it being in a mockumentary format, but i feel like they definitely should have done more here.

a lot of s6 was just uneventful, honestly. i feel like more stuff happened in s4 and s5. a lot of the episodes felt more... episodic, i guess is the word? very little of s6 feels like an overarching plot, very few episodes had even the slightest bit of connection, it was all over the place.

so, already, before i even watched the finale, i didn't have high hopes, but my hope was definitely there. "maybe they'll turn it around. maybe the finale will be a banger", i thought to myself, and well... i wasn't exactly.... wrong???

the finale is very focused on guillermo and nandor, and while i am definitely very fond of those two, i feel like they should've also focused on nadja, laszlo, colin, and honestly, even the guide.

i feel like the show wants us to think that the guide is a main character, but, to me she feels like a semi-important supporting character. we barely know anything about her life's story, what she does for fun, what her opinions are. she basically just exists when she's in the presence of the other vampires. they did her so dirty in this show, honestly, i love her to death and she deserved much more in the show overall, but especially s6.

while not done as dirty as the guide, i feel like colin had so much missed potential. like, when he started caring deeply for the monster, because he feels like he doesn't get enough appreciation in the house, i was like "okay, i see, this could be interesting" and it kinda just... went nowhere. i understand that he feels out of place because he's an energy vampire and doesn't actually enjoy the fact that everyone hates him, but we barely get a glimpse of that.

literally, the last we see of colin is him draining the other household members by telling a really bad joke and it's like... that's it??? oh, well.

nadja feels like a relatively rounded out character and her relationship with laszlo has got to be my favorite fictional relationship. but also, think about this: what did she actually do of any importance in s6? i mean, she did get a job at the same company as guillermo, but other than that, i don't really know. i still love her to death, but i feel like her most memorable moment in this season was when her and laszlo were arguing and he said that really cute line, but that was a shared moment, not one exclusive to her character.

speaking of laszlo, while matt berry's performance in this role is perfect, no notes, i feel like his character became increasingly one-note throughout the series. his line delivery gives us some of my personal favorite moments in the entire show (namely, the iconic "nyew yark citayyy" and me and my dad's favorite: "nandor! i've been double crrrossed by the devILL!". but like, while his character is great from an acting and a comedic standpoint, they didn't do much with him either in the later seasons. well, they did something, namely when his daddy issues were revealed, but, he's still just a silly british guy and not much more.

now, i am aware that a single episode couldn't have fixed all of those problems, but it is a little sad that they didn't even really... attempt to???

now, about the nandermo thing. i have a pretty hot take about that: i actually like that they were shrodinger's confirmed. like, yeah, they "only" hinted at it, but like, c'mon, they hinted at it so heavily that it wouldn't go over even a straight person with a bad case of heteronormative thinking.

it was obvious, so i think that they are confirmed. calling it "queercoding" or worse "queerbaiting" is just objectively not true. nandor is achillean, guillermo is gay, there are no ifs ands or buts about that. they are both queer characters, so the fact that they are having a relationship behind the scenes is not only entirely plausible, but heavily implied.

and for me, that's why i'm personally okay with this confirmation. because, for me, the implications of them having a behind the scenes relationship is more fun than just to have them share a lip-to-lip kiss on-screen. not only does that allow fanfic writers to have endless amounts of fun, but even a relatively casual fan could make up some fun scenarios and speculations. but idk that's just my opinion.

i'm just happy we got to see domestic nandermo, regardless of it being in an AU.

i should go to bed…

[whomstwedointheshadows]

THE NICEST POSSIBLE INTERPRETATION of PAUL SIMMS

I suggest using this as deposition prep when Nandermo sues for emotional damages.

Earlier in the panel, the writers confirmed a plot card exists on the wall in their writers room with Nandor + Guillermo + Kiss. Look, they’ve thought about it before!

‘People’ even want it. Whomst could be amongst thee people, he’s not naming names. Ignore the history of queerbaiting as a grand tradition of showrunners, did those showrunners ever tell you the writers room periodically comes back to the discussion of a ship and keep a dedicated index card of space to a potential kiss?

So as far as explicit statement that Nandermo ship is not sexual, keep your showy gays away- Paul does not restate it in exact terms. He still support that it’s a love story- even if that love story is not as we want it right now. He’s not confirming in this statement it’s a chaste one of ONLY boss/employee nor is he saying it cannot grow into another form.

Furthermore, this entire statement is in response to a question. So, he confirms the foundation of love story, divergence between what is desired at this moment and what the writers intend, and even the framing as turning=infidelity/broken trust. Now, just because it wasn’t sexual doesn’t mean it doesn’t impact their greater love story.

I think it’s very useful to dig in here to the actual question poised to Paul; the question explicitly eliminates Paul giving a response that acknowledges the plotline as explicitly romance-advancing in function.

(Even if this plotline is instrumental in their greater romantic storyline and personal journeys which may become romantic.)

His response has to be about the connection between them, and he cannot just respond, “oh because they love each other deeply and wanna fuck.” It’s a nuanced response to a question which took away a romance pairing between the two to explain it as about the interpersonal dynamic. That’s also not the driving factor of the characters.

I also think the writers know what ship they made, and constantly have address the question of Is It Ready Yet? Could, from a creator perspective making a show that is character driven, see a difference between ‘just hook up already’ because that’s what the fans want and these two characters become the richest possible combination because of how they grew together? I don’t know about you, but I tweet about just fucking do it already and write long metas on tumblr about epic loves. I want to see an epic story, not just doing something to get it off their backs.

Here’s the big quote:

Knowing that these questions were prewritten, screened, and answers were practiced because that’s their job on a panel to be prepared, it’s striking to me there was no denial of an explicit romantic relationship. He answered a carefully worded question with a carefully developed response. He’s about to get flustered by an audience interaction, and then dig a deeper hole.

Okay, now here comes our true soldier in the trenches interrupting the panel.

Does that final response not feel scripted? I wonder if the writers for an improv comedy show like to pull off jokes and throw people the scent. Or could that be an actual joke? Did they just spend the first four seasons giving Guillermo more autonomy and power and season 5 see Nandor fighting for his attention?

Or is it amusing to see someone twist themselves in knots trying not to state the obvious? Would the writers really be so unaware of everything else problematic on the show?

Just take a minute to think about the humor on this show. Does this feel like a bit to move the conversation along, away from the thing they don’t want to give anything away?

The love between them doesn’t just have to be sexual. {They could also be like, best friends, or something, like Lazlo and Nadja. Do you think there’s more than one type of love you can have for someone?}

Or, if you’re doing press for your show and your job today is to talk to the media and get the hype for season 6 and confirm filming in Jan, do you maybe have some tricksy talking points that will generate interest and capture attention while also preserving a surprise element. If I didn’t want to give too much away about the new season, especially if it was driven by the final episode and had some major developments on a personal and interpersonal level, I wouldn’t leave much room for further questions, probably drop the big news item to make sure the attention stays on that. Maybe the person doing the interview is a professional and knows the things a showrunner won’t give away before it airs, so there isn’t going to be a hard press to circle back unless the writers do it during their response time.

Also, look at the reiteration the writers explore multiple paths and pick the best one. They certainly picked an interesting option, if the goal was not to bathe the ship in romance tropes.

Oh wait, it looks like one writer (also exec producer) who won’t say spoilers wants to make sure there’s one last hook thrown out there. Almost like it’s softening the response from Simms from a ‘nope’ to a ‘watch and see’ like planned remarks at the end of a panel, or something.

My interpretation of Sam’s comment, in the most generous to shippers, is- this is a driving engine and intentional plot of our show. We want to make the best show. They pay off of getting together has to be worth it and interesting. It’s integral to the story we are telling. Part of our story is the journey and we’re on our timetable, not to rush this.

So, what does Guillermo want?

Can you think of why he’d stick around the vampires, as per the format, if not to become one?

TLDR: the bait is still on the hook. They’re going to keep it there as long as possible. Nothing has been ruled out, in fact it seems like they’re actually building against what they say would be the problematic aspects. I wonder if comedy writers ever a) keep secrets before something is even filmed so who knows what they decide is the best pathway on an improv show or b) tell jokes in plain sight. If they do things to twist our expectations.

It’s a queer show, so this is not queer baiting. It’s just a Will-they-Won’t-they. There are a lot of choices in plot and character arcs which point to someone in the writers room being fluent in better queer characters if not relationship representation. One would think, as a writer, they would Know Their History of Queerbaiting and associated tropes. {Personally, the ‘No One Dies in Shadows’ seems like a nose bop at Buffy, but that’s a meta for another day. }

I find the boss/employee line so unserious considering everything else in the show, and I wonder what tumblr would be like if we focused on the Kiss Card left on the writer’s wall instead.

[python-nebula]

I think the fact that a lot of the fandom sees 'people can be in love and not have sex' as 'this ship isn't canon fuck you', says a lot about how people view sex in relation to romantic relationships. I want nandermo to be canon too, and I do think that the cast are being unnecessarily cryptic about it (maybe to the extent of shipbaiting like everyone is saying), however the amount of people I've seen basically equating the above two statements says a lot. I know the show is very centred around sex, and therefore we might connect 'characters having sex' to 'their ship being canon', but I've seen some blatant aphobia. I've seen so many people say that 'that character can't be ace they're just repressed', 'the showrunners want to keep it chaste', things like that and it just makes me think, would you say that to an ace person if you met them in real life? I could be making a big deal out of nothing or misinterpreting things but honestly our community are told that we do that daily so I don't know.

[cookinguptales]

Though... I guess I am trying to counterbalance things that make me unhappy with things that make me happy... So if the Barbie thing is irritating me (and if Barbie wasn't even a movie that I thought reached its full potential) then let me rec a women-led media project that I really, really enjoyed instead.

*rubs temples* Um... I'm going through the women-led media projects I've enjoyed over the past few years in my head. Fewer than I would hope, but I've also admittedly been watching fewer movies the last few years since I moved out of Center City.

Honestly, the one that comes to mind immediately is the first season of Russian Doll, which is one of my favorite tv shows that I've seen in the past five years. Natasha Lyonne was, as ever, incredible, and it was probably my favorite take on a time loop that I've ever seen.

(I was asked a lot if Groundhog Day was influential when I was writing my nandermo time loop story, but if I had to pick any piece of media that actually influenced it, it was probably Russian Doll and its emphasis on time loop as metaphor for trauma and coping mechanisms.)

The thing about time loops is that I feel like you really have to use the idea of time when you're using them. Russian Doll wasn't just about living the same day over and over again. It was about the cycle of abuse and an overall inability to escape from the past. It was about the dangers of becoming too solitary, and how becoming dislodged from the world isn't that different from becoming dislodged from time. It was about how genuine connections are what can pull us out of these horrible, damaging cycles, whether they be time loops or harmful coping mechanisms.

I loved it because it was a show about time loops, but it was also a show about humans and what makes them tick. I thought that Nadia and Alan were both super interesting protagonists, and I thought them growing and learning together was beautiful. I thought that the increasingly literal depictions of Nadia's trauma were haunting and horrifying and beautiful.

I think people often say that they don't like tropes and cliches when they really mean that they don't like them when they're handled lazily. I think that Russian Doll is one of the best examples I've seen of a piece of media utilizing the actual physical form of a trope in order to further what it wants to say rather than twisting the writing of the piece to better suit a trope. It used the time loop to talk about the time loops that humans place themselves in every day, and it used the time loop to explore how many ways a person might try to gnaw their own leg off if caught in a trap.

The time loop was literal but also a metaphor and I honestly just thought it was incredible. Fully recommend.