#how insanely fucked up ed & izzy's relationship is

[ohmyglobwhatthefrickamievendoing]

Just.....just finished the first three episodes moodboard....how......how are y'all doing....i'm.....

[izzyspussy]

honestly i think the root of ed and izzy's communication problems was not that they were unwilling to talk about their thoughts and feelings to each other - although of course that is also true and certainly didn't help. no, the root of the problem, and the foundation of their relationship dysfunction, is that they don't think they need to talk about it. they each think the other one already knows.

see, izzy thinks he's simple and ed's complex. it's not that izzy's unintelligent, in fact he'd say he's quite clever, and frankly smarter than most of the men he's sailed with (in his opinion). but he thinks in one fucking straight line, and- well, he frequently doesn't understand even his own feelings, but it seems safe to assume they follow generally the same path. it's just that one straight line, point a to point b, and that's it. no matter how much he tries to bend or take a different direction he just can't do it without someone else dragging him along every step of the way. it's just a matter of fact that he could never understand ed, who is so much more complex and dynamic that he's practically a higher life form. no one would ever expect him to, not without a detailed guide. but of course since ed can think every which way like breathing, looking down izzy's straight line is surely the easiest thing in the world. so obviously ed always knows how izzy will take things. and when ed says or does something that doesn't make sense to izzy and ed doesn't enlighten him, ed is choosing to withhold an explanation. forcing izzy to have to guess, or setting him up to fail completely. maybe to humble him or maybe to punish him, or maybe just to remind izzy (again) that they may be fucking and they might even possibly be friends but they're not lovers and izzy's desire to be so is definitely unrequited.

meanwhile, ed thinks he's nuts and izzy's sensible. it's not all bad to be nuts, you know the line between genius and insanity and yada ya. most of the time he likes being different, he likes being chaotic, kind of indecipherable, ineffable like a god. to most people anyway. because most people are a little bit nuts too, but just a little bit, not enough to do anything really interesting or cool with like ed (also not enough to be as volatile as ed, as dangerous. inhumane - you know, like a god). but not izzy. like obviously izzy has flaws. he's temperamental and high strung and he's got a chip on his shoulder almost as big as he is and he can be absolutely fucking ruthless. but he's logical. he makes sense, and he always notices the little fucking details ed misses and he never loses track of anything. he's so neatly put together and he makes everything around him fall into order too - the ledger, the store rooms, the men (or so ed thinks). obviously if izzy can be so objective about all that shit, he can do that with ed too, solve for him in his head like he does with sums. hell, izzy's so meticulous - and so obsessed with ed - he probably understands ed better than ed himself half the time. he must have all of ed's feelings mapped out like the ship's course. if he ever seems not to get ed, it's only because he's decided ed's feelings are just too fussy and convoluted to humor, or else he thinks they're not even worth pinning down in the first place.

so izzy resents ed for tricking him and for rubbing his nose in his shortcomings, and he never tells ed he feels that way because the only thing bitching about it will accomplish is for izzy to look weak as well as foolish. and ed resents izzy for judging him and ignoring the parts of ed he doesn't like, and he never tells izzy he feels that way because izzy would just double down and tell him to get over it.

the fact that they've spent the majority of their lives in a dog-eat-dog world of treachery and gratuitous violence where any vulnerability is taken advantage of and/or belittled is just one of many icings on top.

[piratecaptainscaptainpirates]

One of the most frustrating things that happened to this fandom wrt Izzy is that it's almost impossible to talk about the canon guy anymore.

Like. I love that guy. He's so fucked up. He compells me. His "ooh daddy" moment was simultaneously one of the most baffling things I've ever seen and completely integral to his character. I love how he takes his frustations out on the unicorn figurehead. He is completely fucking insane and I love him for it, and I love how Con O'Neill puts his entire heart soul and pussy into every scene he's in. His relationship with Ed, his need to control him, is absolutely fascinating. I want to put him in a little maze and watch him stomp around.

But it is impossible to talk about that guy in fandom spaces, because you've got the canyon one end, and they're very vocal and refuse to entertain any interpretation of Izzy that isn't "poor little baby who never did anything wrong and is a helpless victim always and is also a main character." But, and this isn't our fault at all, in spaces with people who actually watch the show and care about what it actually says (I love you mutuals <3), we also have trouble discussing Izzy because so many of us have developed a sort of knee-jerk reaction to the guy.

One of the reasons I didn't like Izzy's s2 character arc on first watch is because I was so anxious anticipating the canyon's reaction. I knew they'd interpret everything as being right about "Ed being abusive!!" when that's...not what the show was trying to say. It really dulled my enjoyment of it.

And every time I bring him up I'm thinking "am I gonna get called a slur for this" because the canyon really attracted some of the most racist-ass takes. It's incredibly frustrating that this show, which has some of the best anti-racist writing and characters of color I've ever seen in my life, has a fandom that can be so hostile to fans of color.

It's so wild that it feels like this small but extremely vocal subset of the fandom is talking about a new guy that they've just made up and doesn't exist in the show, and they're so loud and insistent about it that it makes it difficult for everyone else to talk about the actual guy.

[canonizzyhours]

What nobody wants to admit is there’s a reason OFMD fandom has a big divide over how to interpret Izzy and it’s simply that Con is playing against the scripts.

Con DOES play Izzy like he and Ed have a profound warrior’s bond and their relationship was actually a positive thing up until Stede appeared and Izzy’s jealousy made him briefly go a little bit insane, but once he recognized that Ed truly needed to be with Stede to be happy Izzy was able to let go because his love for Ed is genuinely selfless. People who see that in Con’s performance aren’t wrong.

However this makes no sense as an interpretation of the actual STORY. The scripts write Izzy as someone whose “love” for Ed has been selfish and controlling and abusive (in ways that, yes, echo Ed’s relationship with his father) since long before Stede was in the picture, and is mostly based in the fact that he craves power and manipulating Ed is how he achieves and maintains a position of power – plus the whole deal has this creepy undercurrent of psychosexual obsession. This was obvious back in season one but there’s zero remaining ambiguity about it at this point now that the show literally had Izzy tell Ed “I’ve been terrible to you for years” and “it was me who needed Blackbeard.” 

The way he’s written, Izzy has to let go of both his ambition for power AND his fucked up crush entirely before he can stop obsessively trying to control Ed’s life and be normal enough about him to start building an even remotely healthy relationship, which the two of them never had before. Both djenks and other writers have said this in interviews - what Izzy needed was not to realize Stede was good for Ed, it was to let go of his obsession with controlling his boss’ love life entirely before he even COULD realize that.

This contradiction isn’t Con’s fault, or really anyone’s. If you’re an actor it’s your job to come up with headcanons that make sense of your character’s motivations even if they’re not super clear in the scripts, and the scripts do not focus all that much on Izzy’s internal motivations. (It’s clear from his interviews that he got only vague high-level overviews from the writing team about their intentions for Izzy’s overall arc too, which is normal for a supporting character - not only has he mentioned scenes where he struggled to figure out the motivation on his own, he didn’t even know the show was gay for four episodes, meaning the writers and directors didn’t tell him about Izzy’s gay crush on Ed, the thing he plays as Izzy’s core motivation!) And it’s usually a good idea as an actor to come up with an interpretation that lets you sympathize with your character. So Con went with the most sympathetic read of Izzy he could come up with. It doesn’t make sense of the overall narrative arc of the show, but that’s not his job, his job is figuring out a motivation that gives him a foundation for feeling like he understands Izzy’s perspective in the scenes he’s playing.

So if you pay the most attention to Con’s performances and ignore the narrative framing of the scripts, you end up with basically the canyon read on Izzy’s character. If you pay the most attention to the story the scripts suggest and mostly ignore the performance, you end up with the non-canyon one where Izzy’s a really really bad guy up till s2e5 and he’s manipulative and emotionally abusive toward Ed. Neither one of those is really “canon Izzy.” They’re both present in canon and they directly contradict each other.

This is what led to the fandom getting incredibly weird. Because people most interested in Con’s performance take it as the primary lens through which they interpret the whole show - but it’s an interpretation that fundamentally cannot make sense of the story as a cohesive whole, so they keep running into cognitive dissonance, and they try to resolve it by coming up with increasingly contorted interpretations of the entire narrative arc of the show (including parts that aren’t even directly about Izzy) and getting angry when other people bring back the cognitive dissonance by pointing out how nonsensical those interpretations are. 

People who prioritize the scripts as their main interpretive lens don’t have quite the same problem, because if they notice what’s going on in Con’s performance there’s an easy way to integrate it: assume that the way Con acts is expressing Izzy’s own point of view, BUT IZZY IS WRONG ABOUT ALL THAT. Izzy THINKS he really understands Ed but he doesn’t. Izzy THINKS his feelings for Ed are selfless love but a lot of abusers think that, it’s him lying to himself about his motives being benevolent. And the thing is, this angle makes Izzy look REALLY FASCINATING but also WAY WORSE than the basic read where he’s just being selfish, it turns him from an ambitious manipulative schemer with a weird little crush into a horrific obsessed stalker with a creepy daddy-knows-what’s-best-for-you complex about Ed, a grown-ass indigenous man who never asked his white employee to control his life “for his own good.”

It’s no wonder everyone’s fighting all the time.

#88.

[jellybeanium124]

Ok something I've literally never seen anybody talk about ever is the fact that Izzy apologizes for his little "insane, unpleasant, shell of a man" speech in episode 4.

To quote: "I said some things I regret last night. I don't think you're a shell of a man... or a twat."

Ed responds: "You were right man, about all of it." Imo the most common explanation for this line is buttering Izzy up to agree to his Stede-killing plan, which is something I agree with. Izzy turns and looks at Ed after he says this and Izzy gives him this look that tbh I can't fucking decipher.

Sad? Confused? Blank stare? ?????? idk

Anyways, what are the possible interpretations of that line? Let's start with the least charitable one and work our way to the most charitable interpretation.

Option 1: Izzy is lying and intentionally manipulating Ed.

I don't agree with this because like most people I agree that Izzy does a lot of things without understanding the consequences/implications. To agree to this option you have to think that Izzy has intentionally been abusing Ed for however long they've been working together, and imo Izzy isn't doing that on purpose here. I think he isn't doing that most of the series. At this point in the show things haven't gotten serious enough. Also he's not that smart and doesn't tend to think about things in the long-term, and to imply Izzy has been playing the long con for years abusing and manipulating Ed on purpose is just something I have trouble agreeing with.

Option 2: Izzy is lying, but just so he and Ed don't part ways on a bad note.

Izzy is trying to leave when he says this. Is he just trying to make sure Ed doesn't hate him after this? Ed's kind of an important connection in the pirate world, and Izzy could just be trying not to burn that bridge with the most powerful pirate. (and also he doesn't want Ed to hate him, I think, for some very repressed reasons.) I think this is a plausible interpretation. However, as I've posted about a loooong time ago, Izzy isn't a big liar. He tends to be weirdly truthful about his own emotions, with some exceptions (lying to Stede so Stede can die "doing what he loves).

Option 3: Izzy is telling the truth and means what he says.

Oh man. Dude. The implications of this one. The way Izzy hurts Ed over and over and doesn't even fucking realize it man. The way Ed acts when Izzy gives his little speech implies that this has happened over and over again and ed hardly notices it anymore (until the decade of repetition gets the better of him in episode 10). Izzy loses his cool and apologizes. Izzy loses his cool and apologizes. Izzy loses his cool and apologizes. Over and over and over. And if he's being honest, what does that even mean for Izzy? We know he cares about Blackbeard. How much does he care about Ed? Is there a difference between Izzy in episodes 4 and 10? I think there might be.

By episode 10, Izzy has doubled down over and over and over. He succeeded in getting rid of Stede, and Ed is, to him, behaving more differently/"weird" (bad, soft, effeminate) than ever. In episode 10, Izzy goes after Ed's clothes. He doesn't make a remark about Ed wearing Stede's clothes once in episode 4. Would episode 4 Izzy bully Ed into being the Kraken? I don't think so. I think it takes all his successive loses throughout the series building on each other to get to that point. In episode 4, Izzy is, at the very least, trying not to end his relationship with Ed on a sour note. In episode 6, in his mind, it has totally ended on a sour note and he has a vendetta against the man who stole his man.

I guess this post is part of my ongoing impromptu exploration of early-series Izzy and why I think he's fucking fascinating. Because early on we see more of an Izzy who, while of course still being an asshole, is a little more human. He's having fun in the woods with Stede. He's apologizing like a grown up to Ed. Starting in episode 5, he gets crueler, targeting Lucius because he's the most effeminate person on board besides Stede (with his most human moment in that episode being his perplexed and strangled "fuck off" at Lucius's come-on). In episode 6 he says "I'm good thanks" (or something like that) to Stede offering a draw and tries to kill him. By episode 8 he's bringing the ocean cops to Stede and Ed's doorstep. And of course, in episode 10, he's verbally attacking Ed and threatening him with murder unless he becomes Izzy's version of Blackbeard. Strangely enough, at the end of episode 10, we have another human moment. Izzy seems very conflicted just underneath the surface after the toe scene. The way Con's acting in that scene makes it seem like Izzy is just barely repressing "oh God what have I done oh fuck oh shit I'm in over my head fuck fuck fuck fuckfuckfuck."

Well... like a lot of my metas (can this be called that???) this has been a stream of consciousness.... thing.... that I don't know how to conclude. I guess I'll say I lean more towards option 3 but if you read it as option 2 that's valid, but I don't think it's option 1. I also can't wait to see what this bizarre little man gets up to very soon. What a guy.

[fluidfox123]

The most beautiful thing from this season so far in my opinion is Ed and Izzy's relationship

It's fucked up, they love each other in all the wrong ways, they're abusive, they're toxic, they ruin each other, they drive the other to death, suicide, to break everything they touch when they're with one another

At some point it may have been the opposite, but even then they weren't meant to be and they've fallen into hell and cannot save the other no matter how hard they try they cannot please the other

Their love is horrible, but it is still love, and while everyone else talks about how love saves (Ed and Stede), is joy (Pete and Lucius), changes (Fang and Jim), is forever shifting and "undeserved" (Jim and Izzy), and takes on so many forms (Jim, Archie, Olu, and Susan)

Everyone should know love is hell, it kills, it harms, it's ruthless and painful and diseased, and it just is one of the most powerful weapons of destruction in the world, Ed and Izzy show that side of love so perfectly it makes me go insane

Love is so many things and it's shown in every corner of this show

[devotioncrater]

ed/stede + edizzy + edward's bipolar

oh man the first three episodes of season 2 are. wow. okay. much to unpack. more fuel for my Edward Has Bipolar Theory.

DISCLAIMER: i am not a clinician, nor do i hold any degree in the psychology field. this meta is purely drawn from my own experience with diagnosed bipolar i, alongside what i've learnt in years of therapy as well as reading bipolar books/articles and peer-reviewed research papers. above all, this meta is for fun; please do not use this as a self-diagnostic.

this meta is broken up into sections:

the intro section

the bipolar section

the codependency section

the season 2 speculation section

The Intro Section

right away, the admittance of edward hating himself & feeling unloveable recontextualizes everything. his dynamic with stede & the crew, his dynamic with his own crew, his dynamic with izzy.

because like. hi hello?? when izzy says "you know me better than anyone else, and i daresay the same is true for me to you" it's just. a nail in the coffin. one of many nails. here's why.

it took an insane amount of vulnerability for edward to open himself up to stede in season 1. it took a lot out of him to even accept stede's love, and then believe it to be real. he believed that just for one moment in his scarred life, he was someone worth loving, baggage and all. as he himself was. for who he was. stede saw him and loved him and accepted him. if edward had been there to hear when lucius said to stede that the time edward spent with stede was the best it'll ever be for him, edward probably would've agreed.

which is. oh man. it would be a bit of a thin ice situation, wouldn't it? that's fucking bleak.

before we get into that, we need to dissect the dysfunction in the edizzy dynamic. i mean it's all tragic, all toxicated, especially with the downward spiral edward's on. so why examine it? what is there to examine?

the downward spiral began in season 1, became abated by stede & the crew, only to jumpstart at the end thanks in part to izzy. so we need to examine why, because edizzy's dysfunction plays a role in all of this mess.

it's undeniable izzy triggered edward, yes, but look a little further. edward's irritability, his emptiness, his substance abuse, the sudden shift in gears between his erratic moods. the crew walk on eggshells around him, because his behavior in season 2 so far is reckless, dangerous, and suicidal. there's pressurized speech patterns and racing thoughts present and they intermingle alongside low-energetic periods when he isolates. above all, he feels hopeless. overwhelmed by a sea of loneliness. fang starts the season off being unable to recognize him.

on the flipside, in season 1, he's on the tail-end of a low when we meet him. listless, bored, passively suicidal before he swings the other way. with stede & the crew he's up in the clouds. he's affable, he's happy, he's social. there's hope for change. he tries new things, laughs, even falls in love. he imagines a life for himself outside of piracy. there's impulsive actions such as the act of grace and impulsive thoughts like sailing to china. even when stede leaves him, edward grieves at a healthy-looking level. in episode 5, when edward's mood first shifts, fang doesn't recognize him in the elevated state.

the point is, edward feels things in the extreme. he lacks emotional regulation. "uncharacteristic" high highs and low lows.

how he reacted to izzy's trigger — "this is blackbeard" — is disproportionate until you piece together two puzzle pieces:

edward likely has bipolar + his core beliefs (self-loathing/feeling unloveable) throw oxygen into the flame of his relationships.

The Bipolar Section

to get on the same page here, let me provide a few Basic Oversimplified Definitions (here is a pdf of the DSM-5 for a scientific understanding, scroll to page 168. please do not use this PDF or meta as a self-diagnostic. contact a clinician/psychiatrist if you have questions or feel you need an evaluation):

bipolar disorder: a chronic, lifelong mood disorder characterized by manic highs and depressive lows. fluctuations in moods are extreme and, depending on subtype, can inhibit functionality. it can be managed today with medication and psychotherapy.

manic episode: lasting one week or more, this is the high highs. the mood is elevated or irritable. if severe, it can include psychosis/psychotic features such as hallucinations, paranoia, and/or delusions. mania belongs to subtype Bipolar I.

hypomanic episode: lasting at minimum four days straight, this is a lesser high than manic. it does not include psychosis/psychotic features, nor does it inhibit functionality. hypomania belongs to subtypes Bipolar I and Bipolar II.

depressive episode: lasting two weeks or more, this is the low lows. anhedonia and major depression are hallmarks of a depressive episode. depression belongs to all three subtypes of bipolar (the third subtype being cyclothymia).

mixed episode: best of both worlds. a person experiencing one may possess high levels of energy — such as pressurized speech — while simultaneously feeling overwhelmingly low and suicidal. a mood may flip from elated to hopeless on a dime.

euthymia: a mood state that is stable, without (hypo)mania or depression. it is a neutral baseline which occurs between episodes.

IMPORTANT NOTE: bipolar disorder is more complex than "just a mood swing". mood swings are situational, while bipolar presents even without situational factors. think about how, in season 2, edward has got his hair in a messy updo, cleans his cabin, swears off drinking & drugs, and is smiling. he explains to frenchie that he's decided to change after a rough night. then it cuts to a flashback of him the night before lying on the floor bawling his eyes out. the scene is played for laughs, however that is a textbook bipolar mood fluctuation. you go to bed hopeless and you wake up on top of the world, or vice versa. edward's situation hadn't changed in the hours between him crying and his conversation with frenchie.

(it can be argued that he thought izzy had died, but i don't think he believed frenchie had truly finished the job. why else had he grilled frenchie? he was sweating frenchie out, testing frenchie's loyalty. "you don't think i know the smell of my rotting former first mate?" edward knew izzy was alive the entire time).

like with almost every disorder, bipolar disorder presents itself differently in different people. in my experience, when i am in either a depressive or manic episode, two different outlooks may occur:

it becomes hard to remember what life was like on the other emotional end. (i.e. when manic, i tend to downplay my prior depressive episode).

i become hyperaware of the other emotional end, so i try to either get it to happen or prevent it from happening. (i.e. not wanting to become depressed, so i'll do XYZ).

i mention these outlooks because they're common. when you're in it, you're in it; when you're out, you're out. the first outlook is something edward's actions point to him experiencing, too, as evidenced in season 2 with his extreme suicidal behavior. he's in it in it.

the ups and downs in bipolar are difficult for the person struggling with the disorder. often, it feels uncontrollable. the symptoms — especially the ones which risk becoming severe like hopelessness or distractibility — are a challenge to cope with. during the high highs, your brain feels like it's frying. during the low lows, your brain feels like dense fog. therefore it's common for people to turn to substances to help alleviate what they're experiencing, and/or they partake on an impulsive whim. drastic life changes also may occur in an attempt to "fix" or "control" the disorder. severe episodes, when left untreated, may ruin or end people's lives. people with bipolar disorder are 15x more likely to commit suicide than the general population.

people who do not have bipolar themselves yet are close to someone with bipolar may also experience related difficulty. it may feel overwhelming to witness episodes occur with little to no understanding or tools on how to help. it may also feel stressful to try and gauge what state the other person is in. "walking on eggshells" is a common descriptor for the experience when the bipolar is unmanaged. that does not mean the person with bipolar disorder is automatically bad/abusive/harmful, it just means the disorder is a disorder. it interferes with daily functioning, causes distress, and impacts interpersonal relationships.

at the end of season 1, izzy hit edward where it hurts (edward's self-loathing, intertwined with the role of blackbeard) while edward was in what i believe to be a euthymic state (calm). now with their recontextualized relationship, we also see the underlying message of: "i serve blackbeard, he is my captain." -> "edward isn't good enough for my love".

izzy loves edward, but he's made it clear in season 1 it was for edward's blackbeard persona. or was it? you see, i don't believe that claim to be entirely true anymore, not after the first three episodes of season 2.

i believe a more accurate reading would be that in season 1, izzy was concerned, jealous, and vindictive. all in that order. the above underlying message weaponizes edward's separation of Edward and Blackbeard against edward. more on this later.

in season 2, izzy is just plain concerned ("we're worried for you"). he tries a different approach at managing edward's unstable mood. he goes for a softer attempt ("i have...love for you") because maybe, maybe it could work. it worked with stede. when it backfires, he ditches it and goes right back to bluntness ("the atmosphere's fucked!"). he also refuses to kill edward despite everything edward's put him through.

both seasons' motives were not for blackbeard, but for edward.

when we meet them in season 1, their relationship is dysfunctional at best. their baseline dynamic before stede is best depicted during episode 4.

in the model ship scene, edward's excited about stede's stuff, restlessly moving, unable to focus, appearing happy even though he's a hair-trigger away from irritability. he purposefully avoids or dismisses izzy's concerns about dying. he feels bored and trapped ("is this all there is?"), then feels frustration over feeling trapped, citing that he's blackbeard and blackbeard shouldn't feel trapped.

later in the episode, izzy frustratingly points out that edward's moods are "increasingly erratic" and something that izzy himself has had to manage. izzy also states that he's followed edward's every whim for years, and smoothed over their crew for him. edward, again dismissive, says "sounds stressful, izzy". izzy says it is but he felt honored to do it all for blackbeard, who is the greatest sailor he's ever known. this ties into their codependency, which i'll go over later on.

at this point in time, "edward" and "blackbeard" are synonymous, the names are just different titles reserved for different settings. edward himself doesn't see a distinction until stede — a person he respects — consistently treats him like Edward and not like Blackbeard. edward's identity to Blackbeard separates because he opens himself up to the possibility that Edward is someone worth knowing. Blackbeard, once a healthy coping mechanism created to survive in the pirating world, had soured somewhere along the way into an unhealthy coping mechanism. it became more of a cage than a home.

but to izzy, "blackbeard" is a good thing to be because it's an accomplishment of edward's. they built their whole careers and lives around it. when izzy says he's honored to sail with blackbeard, the greatest sailor out there, he says it to try and bring edward back to himself. it's his botched attempt at grounding/helping edward. if edward can be reminded of how great he is, reinforced by his accomplishments under the name blackbeard, maybe he'll snap out of his funk. if edward values izzy, loves izzy how izzy thinks edward does, he'd see the weight behind the compliment. izzy doesn't sail for just anybody.

it's botched entirely because any time edward tries to voice how "blackbeard" really makes him feel, izzy dismisses/minimizes/mocks it. he isn't supportive to edward because he feels threatened in two parts: that edward finds stede fascinating, and that edward is making a drastic life change for both of them based on yet another mood whim.

to izzy, edward becoming Edward and ditching Blackbeard would mean izzy's lost control of the situation, which means izzy's lost control of edward, which means no one will have control of edward. not even edward himself. this is yet another facet of izzy's codependency.

side note: speaking of names, in the calico jack episode, we know "ed" is a nickname edward doesn't allow people to call him. the only two people who call him "ed" are stede and izzy.

so that begs the question: why did izzy call edward "eddy" in season 2? where the hell does that nickname come from? why does edward use it on himself when he was struggling in purgatory?

based on these two conversations in episode 4, we can glean both sides of the situation. on one side is edward, who is struggling mentally and whose work is deteriorating because of it. on the other side is izzy, who is equal parts concerned about edward and frustrated at him because he isn't functioning as well as he used to, leaving izzy to clean up his messes. since this has been a years-long tension point, they are both at the end of their ropes. about to snap.

that is how we meet them.

from then on, edward begins falling for stede, and his mood shifts. he begins functioning better. stede is genuinely good for him. stede, with his different view on life, provides emotional balance and radical acceptance and a general softness that edward's been missing. he is supportive, he is kind, and he treats edward like edward isn't broken.

but stede is not accustomed to pirate life or its reality. he's naive to the point of foolish. foolish to the point of fatality. and izzy sees those flaw points right away. it's a red flag to him because how can edward — passively suicidal edward — be trusted to not take advantage of stede's naivety and steer them all into a doomed situation?

edward's relationship with stede is also where izzy's jealousy kicks into gear, clouds his judgement.

i mean, shit, wouldn't anyone feel slighted? if you devote your life to a man, stick with him through thick & thin, feel responsible for both of your lives, go above and beyond, worry over his wellbeing, put him before yourself....just for him to run off with a wannabe pirate.

a wannabe pirate who has only known your man for a fraction of the time you and your man have been together. his weeks compared to your years. yet somehow he gets your man's good side, gets the love you desperately want.

of course izzy's seething. wouldn't anyone?

it makes sense for izzy to sell edward and stede out to the british navy. he's spiteful, vindictive. bet there's a bit of hurt pride to it, too. it's fucked! it's a terrible thing to do!

his motive here boils down to, once again, keeping edward alive. cleaning up what he perceives to be another mess. sell stede out, keep edward where he can see him. izzy hates spanish jackie's, he hates the navy, he doesn't enjoy any of it. this is his hail mary, his last ditch effort.

of course it backfires. royally. no one expected edward to call for an act of grace. to sign away his life. izzy tries to stop him, but edward goes where stede goes. and soon after that, edward returns without stede.

and soon after that, the situation deteriorates. edward's launched into a severe mixed episode, triggered by the compounded stress of stede leaving and izzy's rejection of Edward. pressurized speech, emptiness, irritability, suicidal behavior, increased goal-directed activity...he ping-pongs between mania and severe depression. this is more than a break-up.

edward struggles with emotional impermanence. when stede's right in front of him, kissing him, edward feels secure that stede loves him. but when stede doesn't meet him at the dock? Stede Never Loved Me.

another example: izzy. when izzy obeys edward's orders, edward feels secure that izzy loves him. but when izzy speaks up or disagrees? Izzy Never Loved Me.

"he was your friend," jim tells edward, in reference to edward's awful treatment of izzy. but edward, at this intersection of a severe mixed episode + emotional impermanence, can't see that.

he burns his bridges left and right. destroys everything because he's lashing out in pain and he doesn't think he deserves anything good. Blackbeard? sure, he'll be Blackbeard. Blackbeard is all he'll ever be anyways. a killer, a pirate, a crazy captain who does too much rhino horn.

edward hates himself so fiercely that he only finds relief during the storm, right before he believes he's going to die. "finally."

The Codependency Section

edward's relationship with izzy was always going to end in destruction.

they both love each other, we have canon confirmation of this. "i have...love for you" and "i loved you best i could".

edward's confession is critical here, because he did love izzy as best as he could. there exist moments between them that shine light into possible happier times. the way edward talks to izzy to placate him in season 1 when izzy packs a dinghy, even if manipulative at the time, requires intimate knowledge on what izzy would be receptive to. david jenkins mentioned that it was izzy who helped doll edward up for the season 1 ball, an offscreen act of intimacy. edward tries unsuccessfully to connect with izzy over stede's model ship and the clouds. the casual way edward says "i had a dream about you last night."

"best i could." if edward hated himself less, he could have loved izzy more. if he believed he was deserving of love, he could have accepted the fact izzy loves him.

so they both love each other, but love is not enough to combat self-hate. it just isn't. the only opponent to self-hate is self-compassion.

self-compassion is a process you have to choose for yourself. you must work on it yourself, hopefully with the aid of an external support system. self-compassion is separate from self-love and other forms of love because, oftentimes, people who operate under the core belief of Being Unloveable also operate under an assumption that love is conditional. "i'm not enough" / "i'll never be enough" / "i don't deserve love" / "i'm too much". it's unrealistic for someone to jump headfirst into healing when that healing is programmed with restrictions. we are our own worst critic. so to practice self-compassion is to soothe that inner, hater critic until we heal ourselves enough to get to a place where we can practice unconditional love on the neglected self.

the conditional love aspect is one that is modeled. edward grew up in an abusive household. abusers hold their victims out on a string of conditions. furthermore, his mother rejected his interest in fine things by saying that it's not "for people like us". it makes sense for edward to internalize an "i'm not [rich/nice/good/etc] enough" message, thereby shutting himself out.

he continues to shut himself out in the aftermath of killing his alcoholic father. he doesn't tell anyone about the traumatic event — an oscillation into "i'm too much" — until he opens up to stede.

so here you have an unloveable boy, the victim of domestic violence and the killer of his own father, going into the chaotic world of pirating. a world — put so eloquently by calico jack in season 1 — where everyone fucks each other over. where trust is a prized, rare currency.

and somewhere along the way, he and izzy find each other. and they stick together for years.

both edward and izzy bottle their emotions up and then blow up on each other. it's so completely different to how stede & the revenge crew operate. it's years of miscommunication and mutual resentment between them, caused in part due to their pirate enviornment. their pattern is hot and cold. reactive.

izzy smooths over things with the crew -> edward is dismissive of izzy -> izzy blows up on edward and resigns -> edward convinces izzy to stay -> edward begins falling for stede -> izzy and stede fight over edward's heart -> izzy gets exiled for losing, edward says nothing -> izzy goes vindictive mode and sells edward/stede out to the navy -> edward hates izzy's guts -> edward comes back without stede, depressed -> izzy smooths over things with the crew -> edward is dismissive of izzy -> izzy blows up on edward and triggers him -> edward convinces izzy to stay through violence

it's that one friend who keeps returning to their shitty partner — on again/off again —, only here they both are the shitty partner.

the thing about unhealthy relationships is that they provide a layer of comfort. it's known territory. which is why, when an unhealthy relationship morphs into a codependent one, it is incredibly difficult to break out of them.

codependency definition: excessive emotional or psychological reliance on a partner, typically one who requires support on account of an illness or addiction.

like conditional love, codependency is learned/modeled inside of a dysfunctional family setting.

it works a bit like an ouroboros in that it's an infinite loop. the codependent partner compulsively takes care of their struggling partner in the hopes they get better. this role of "caretaker" makes them feel needed/wanted, ergo filling their own low self-esteem void. however, all the rescuing does is enable the struggling partner further into self-destruction.

sound familiar?

izzy is edward's caretaker. izzy is codependent.

important note: no one feels good inside of a codependent relationship. there may be positive periods, yes, but codependency is primarily stressful for both parties involved.

in order to blossom, codependency relies on low self-esteem.

we know edward oscillates with his self-esteem, but we don't talk about how low izzy's self-esteem is.

izzy doesn't have an identity outside of edward, with the exception of being one of the best swordsmen in the pirating world. of course, this exception is taken from him when edward cuts his toes off.

izzy is high-strung with a compulsive need for control. things must be done when he orders them to, to the high standards he creates. do not question his authority. this compulsion is exasperated by edward's uncontrollable mood shifts.

izzy rolls with the punches, metaphorically and literally. he shuts down attempts at comfort, evidenced by his knee jerk reaction when fang hugs him in season 2. "i'm fine. unhand me. unhand me!" he doesn't allow himself to fully break down and cry. the tears only appear in this scene, and when edward attempts to get izzy to kill him.

loyal to a fault, izzy threatens to leave, goes to leave, but never leaves. he gets casted out, so he devises a plan to return instead of, i don't know, creating a new life for himself. even when edward maims him, he stays.

so is this loyalty? or is this a belief that this is what he deserves? or maybe it's loyalty born from the belief that this is all he's deserving of.

a hit dog will holler, and boy does izzy holler when questioned. about his role, about himself, about who he is to edward.

so who is izzy without edward?

"you know me better than anyone else and i daresay the same applies with me to you." is an insane thing to say because izzy does know edward, but only the version of edward he stitched his skin to. the unstable, erratic version that needs help, and who he subconsciously sabotages with enablement.

and edward does know izzy better than anyone else because izzy's consumed by him.

if edward could not accept izzy's love in a direct form, then the roles izzy inhabits are his only outlet. Caretaker, Punching Bag, First Mate. 50 ways to say I Love You and none of them are healthy.

they both are violent with each other, drag each other down, but can't quit even when they know that they function better separated. codependency is an addiction, and like an addiction, the only way for this to end was in rockbottom or death.

The S2 Speculation Section

going back to the very top, here's why i say this thing with ed/stede is on thin ice right now: without edward working on his self-compassion, their relationship runs the risk of devolving into yet another unhealthy dynamic.

stede has decent self-esteem, an identity outside of edward, so i don't think they'll ever become codependent. stede also doesn't try to fix or enable edward. again, stede is genuinely good for edward.

i think the Mer!Stede scene was amazing, vital in balancing the heavy topic of suicide/death with the overarching comedy genre of the show. love saves lives, without love the world is bleak. who are we as humans without connection?

that being said, i personally want to see edward heal before jumping into a full-blown romantic/sexual relationship with stede. he deserves to choose himself, nurture Edward, and figure out how to manage his moods. especially since his last relationship with izzy was so tumultuous.

speaking of izzy, i also want to see izzy find himself and heal, too. he needs to learn how to let go. i'm hoping he'll build up his self-esteem in his own way, doing something he's good at (maybe as a sword-fighting instructor?).

either way, i trust the direction this show will go in. they've done well so far in their depictions of mental health and the impact of mental health. it'll be interesting to see the rest unfold.

[illocopon]

Tw: suicide mention, mental health, toxic relationships

Ok I get it, the first season was all fun and games and silly little gay pirates, so it's obvious and easy to point Izzy out as the antagonist -ahem, the English and Spanish navy, ahem-. So yeah, we have this little and agry fella, trying to bring our lovers appart, trying to boss around The Revenge as if he's the Captain and being mean to everyone around. Of course we thought he's the bad guy. But have we stopped and cared about what are Izzy's drives? HAVE WE??

Izzy Hands is Blackbeard's first mate. Not Ed's, as he says later on. The good functioning of the ship and the relationships between his Captain and the crew is his duty. And all of a sudden, his Captain turns mad and in love with someone who is weak and has nothing to do with piracy. Izzy is absolutely stressed, like a stray cat taking a bath for the first time. The time Ed and Stede spend together is lost time: not pillaging well enough, not hiding properly from the Army... So he blames it all on Stede, ignoring completely his boss' state of mind. Izzy's job is to make everything work and it's just not happening anytime soon. He's so desperate that he even takes a deal with the English army. He even forgives Ed when he punches him in the face, because he's convinced he deserved it. What else could he do?

*S2 spoilers ahead*

And in the second season, Izzy has regained power as first mate. But he's utterly destroyed, both physically and emotionally. He has sacrificed his integrity for this ship, and it's not paying back. Ed treats him like a dog and the crew is so profoundly mentally devastated that he cannot make it work anymore. And again, in desperation, Izzy keeps searching for solutions. It's his job, at the end of the day. He's too emotionally attached that he needs to stay, to make it work again like it used to. He's once again against the wall, he even asks to talk it through. Anything is working, so even Stede's ways were given a try. And this gets him shot in the leg, leading to losing it in a 50-50% chance to die.

So dying is the last frontier. He's not sacrificing his life to a suicidal boss that doesn't care who goes down with him. He almost gives up, but luckily he fails his shot. When the storm comes, he gets his revenge on all the damage that he has taken over the months, over the years; and yet again he's doing his job: he's protecting the crew from what's now the enemy, their current Captain.

When Izzy sees Stede again, he asks him to insult him, to unburden all his hate on him -but that's Izzy's coping mechanism, not Stede's-, he needs punishment, for he hasn't been able to complete his duty and to save Blackbeard from insanity to it's last consecuences. All he gets back is just nothing, and it hurts more than anything because he's left alone with guilt. No bad words, not even a side eye. He's broken and ignored.

Later on, when Stede's crew escape, they take Izzy with them -he would probably be killed or used to track them back- and he tries, for the first time, to thank Stede. Ignored again. He's not worth a thought. So he first falls in booze and then progressively into absolute madness, guiltyness and grieve.

He's not been loved once. Not even when he gave all his life to the one he loved. It was never returned back and now he's disabled for life, alone and aboard a ship where everyone hates him -or so he thinks.

I was so happy to see that the crew ended up understanding his pain and situation, taking care of him and making him a new leg all together. So fuck yeah. FOR THE NEW UNICORN. For the new and crafty Izzy, for the new and sensitive man how's yet to come to terms with some things. To Izzy Hands.

So what I really want to say is: stop hating Izzy. He's been through a lot of shit, has done questionable things to maintain his crew safe and he's a baby girl and I'm too emotional to end this with something that makes sense.

[jaskierx]

people fundamentally misunderstanding what abuse even is all for the sake of arguing about fictional characters and being an abuse apologiser kind of actually drives me crazy like. real people get abused. and these idiots who do this are going to end up repeating violent rhetoric that will be harmful and actively put people in danger by normalising something like "you can't be abused if you fight back against your abuser because that's also abuse" or "abuse is when someone physically larger physically hurts someone who is smaller" or something. ("abuse is when the scary brown man hurts the defenseless small white man")

like 😭? ed holds a certain degree of authority over izzy as his captain and someone izzy projects his own fantasies onto, but izzy holds an IMMENSE amount of power over ed, and has for a while and maybe even ALWAYS has been building it up, and that fantasy plays into it. abuse occurs when someone holds power over another person and misuses that power and causes them harm, even if that person is "unaware" they're doing it... it's not complex and it's nothing to do with what's "typical", a parent can abuse their offspring, an adult child can abuse their parent. it's about the power dynamic. their relationship is incredibly imbalanced and it's always been in IZZY'S favour, his role is LITERALLY meant to liken to like an evil advisor whispering in ed's ear – an imbalanced, toxic dynamic where ed is the victim with false control over the situation, because the entire point is izzy wants him to be The Best He Can Be (a ruthless pirate).

izzy eventually getting hurt physically in retaliation isn't ABUSE because ed isn't enacting what little authority he does have over izzy (who allows him to have it as izzy finds perverse joy in SEEING ed use that authority against him and Be the fantasy he wants ed to be), he's just fucking retaliating to being taunted by someone who hates him. izzy got physically hurt, sure, but he was not ever scared of or threatened by ed, ed did not hold any further power over him other than the fear in any man's mind who knew they fucked around and found out and got fucking shot for it.

when ed severed their connection with that bullet he severed izzy's hold over him to a vast degree, but that still doesn't mean he then held an equal amount of power over izzy in his place. and ed even had the insane heart to actually feel bad about hurting him and forgive him for everything else 😭. izzy literally acknowledges this IN THE SHOW. it's actually concerning the lengths people will go to defend an aspect of a character that is written in the damn script (izzy is a toxic manipulative cunt who wants to control everything ed does who eventually stops doing that because he knows he went too far).

anyway. sorry for that. good morning ^_^

good morning anon you are correct and you should say it

it absolutely baffles me like how the fuck are you going to be so committed to banging a drum for your shitty fave that you end up posting stuff with real world implications about who can and cannot be a victim of abuse

like even without the nonsense the take was full of headcanon and weird analogies anyway (like it's useless to compare being a pirate captain to owning a house. those are fundamentally different things. turns out piracy doesn't neatly map onto 'normal' life today. who knew!)

but the lengths that people will go to to declare that izzy did nothing wrong after the show has looked them in the eyes and said 'the narrative is telling you that izzy was wrong'??

i'm so glad they killed him off bc i cannot cope with another season of shit like this. i patiently await their exit from the fandom tbh

[communist-ant-hill]

OFMD and Revenge

I've been seeing a lot of posts focusing on characters getting comeuppance for their bad actions in this fandom lately.

People are talking about Izzy getting off easy since no one knows that Ed's behaviour is "his fault" or Ed being punished or Stede etc and like,,, no?

If that's what people want then like I get that and I see you, you're feelings make sense and they're about the furthest you can get from an unfounded opinion but that isn't really the approach ofmd seems to be taking when it comes to revenge.

In season 1 we have three major characters who's character arcs are focused on revenge; Jim, Chauncey and Izzy. Their quests for revenge are never framed as desireable.

Jim is basically done with their revenge quest for most of the show, all they really want is getting their knife back, until they return to their home where they're basically shamed for letting go of their grudge. Them continuing to avenge their family is shown to be detrimental. They leave their friends behind and Jackie outright tells them that it's not worth it.

Chauncey is just a flat-out villain this season. Like we get why he's going after Stede, I'd even say the show makes us sympathise with him, but it's also very obvious to us that he's hurting himself and the people around him by refusing to let go.

Izzy want's Blackbeard back, he's stuck in the past and he also develops a grudge against Stede specifically. These are the reasons he becomes one of our main antagonists in season 1.

But this is made even more obvious in season 2, which is why I find it so weird that a lot of people are still rooting for the possability of Izzy being punished.

I think Ed's storyline this season is the shows clearest declaration on how it's going to handle redemption and comeuppance going forward. Ed is pushed over the ledge at the end of season 1 and so far his s2 arc has been focusing on his awful coping mechanisms with trauma and guilt. He's been doing worse and worse things to the characters we love and he fucking hates himself for it. He keeps punishing himself for doing bad things by doing something worse. It's very similar to Chaunceys framing in s1 if you think about it. And he's to scared to stop because he belives that he's unredeemable, that there's no one waiting for him on the other side.

But his crew, his friends, Izzy, Stede even his own imagination (Hornigold) are telling him that he can let go of his anger and that if he'd just show them that remorse without also hurting them, they'd be there. Ed punishing himself isn't helping anyone.

And if we disregard the fact that Izzy has already lost a leg to a long and painfull infection, not to mention the fuckton of mental trauma, we see that he has put himself on the road to redemption by taking accountability for his personal actions as well as protecting the crew from Blackbeard.

Yeah he's technically one of the reasons that Ed is in such a bad place right now, but if the revenge crew aren't insanely pissed at Stede for Ed's behaviour then do ya'll really think they'd react that poorly to finding out about Izzy's involvement?

Like they've been there with him, they've seen the abuse he's endured by Blackbeard and the messed up relationship they have together. I'm pretty sure they'd all agree that he's been through enough.

Yeah he's a dick, and they've basically always known him to be one, but he's their dick.

Idk I just think people are a bit to caught up in moral absolutes here when really the happiest ending for everyone involved would be for the characters to forgive themselves for the pain they've caused, and to free themselves of their personal grudges so that they can properly heal.

[hellishunicorn]

Izzy is abusive towards Ed

Or there are at the very least some signs of abuse in their dynamic, Izzy being the perpetrator.

So I had to read a text about domestic violence and abusive relationships for a course I'm taking in university about queer life and struggle, and some examples were brought up: like, 'the perpetrator is likely to do' and then there is like a list of things depending on the situation. This is specifically in relation to queer people and I started to connect some of the things that got brought up to things Izzy has done to Ed.

So without further ado, here are some examples that got brought up about how abuse can unfold that reminded me of Izzy:

First the text mentions different forms of abuse including emotional, such as threaten and control ("Edward better watch his fucking step"), and shame ("insane, unpleasant shell of a man" "namby-pamby in a silk gown"). Then abuse related to a person's sex, gender, gender expression, race, ethnicity, sex characteristics and so forth ("whatever it is that you have become is a fate worse than death").

Then come other more generic examples of abuse such as: Shows much jealousy and ownership over the victim (that is literally Izzy's entire deal with Ed)

Threatens physical violence (I don't remember if he ever does that specifically, but the Edward better watch his fucking step line sure could include it)

Blames the victim for all fights, arguments and problems in the relationship (again, calling Ed insane, erratic and so forth) The perpetrator tries to control the behaviour of the victim (again, Edward better watch his fucking step) and tries to come between the victim and their current partner (Izzy has been doing that since before Ed and Stede even met, which ties into the whole tries to control the behaviour of their victim, as in Izzy trying to steer Ed into killing Stede, which he does again in episode 6 when he compares Stede to a pet and tells Ed he should end his life. Talking about Stede making Ed weak and such, which also ties into belittling him.)

The perpetrator keeps saying things that are not in line with what they do. (Izzy keeps saying he is just being loyal to Blackbeard and whatever, but his actions point towards him wanting to control him) and the text mentions that it's the actions that speak louder than words when it comes to domestic violence/abuse of some kind and the perpetrator might say all these things about how they are just doing this for the victim and that it is the right thing to do ("Edward, I know you're upset but, it was the only (Ed punches him)- remember though, you said when you made me first mate that above all is loyalty to your captain. You're my captain and I was never going to stand by and let you destroy yourself for that twat. And this is a humane way of ending this, it's quick, it's clean. Edward you know that.") Here Izzy is blaming Ed for the execution of Stede, by pointing out that 'Ed' was the one who said that loyalty to your captain is what's most important, and Izzy is simply doing this out of the goodness of his heart, because Stede is nothing but a twat, and Izzy knows what's best for Ed (note my sarcasm here).

And one final thing that got brought up is that when the victim strikes back against their abuser, the actual perpetrator might use that against their victim as an example of how the victim is the "real" abuser in this situation. So, if Izzy ever uses the toe thing against Ed in season two, I am jumping through the screen to choke that man to death and not in a fun way.

I am by no means an expert on abuse or domestic violence, but I am getting quite annoyed at the fact that it's been a year, and I'm still seeing people believing Izzy is in the right in season 1, just because he says he is, despite the narrative itself suggesting otherwise, and I'd like to provide some examples as to how his dynamic with Ed, specifically, is quite the opposite of what some fans seem to think it is.

the text that I read is in icelandic, so I doubt it would help much to link it here, but it is however translated (with permission and some alterations to fit icelandic society, I think mainly in terms of where people can look to if they are in an abusive relationship) from a brochure/booklet/pamphlet from this organization

Freedom from domestic abuse | RISE (riseuk.org.uk)

[ohmyglobwhatthefrickamievendoing]

dj saying izzy was like a father figure to ed & then trying to connect that to ed killing his actual father is insane but specially, specially, when you remember that last episode stede & izzy had a pretty obvious moment where they came to an understanding about what it's like to be in love with the same man

that's not the kind of conversation and look you share with your ex's father figure. It's the one you share with your ex's ex while you're both still in love with him

Then the episode before that they kept cutting from stede&ed having sex to izzy singing a love song?

And the episode before that izzy stuttered and hesitantly asked stede what ed's been saying about him??

I know found families can have parental figures whom you may still feel a sexual and/or romantic attraction to, but at no point did either season ever show such a relationship between the two. I guess if you want to reach for it you could say that in early S1 there are times when izzy tries to look out for ed & guide him but even stede (fucking stede) clocks them as 'old married couple nearing the final stages of their divorce'

You could on a technicality apply the 'mentor dies at the end' trope to izzy but that's only if you assume that izzy's somewhat significantly older than ed and so probably looked out for ed at some point when they were working under hornigold together, which again is never shown in their dynamic (the only mention we get of it is through stede but I'm almost certain that most of what stede said was just him buttering up izzy to get him to train stede)

I feel like rather than 'father-figure/mentor dies at the end' it gives more 'even as we try to move on our existences are inseparably linked to each other and you're the last part of my old life that needs to die before I can finally be free to change and we both know that, even as it hurts' Yeah yeah izzy deserved to live a happy life away from blackbeard's influence the same way ed deserves to live a happy life away from izzy's (and I really wish he could have) but they've been unhealthily connected from the beginning (much more obvious in S2 seeing how neither of them could bare to get rid of the other's body) and it makes sense that eventually that's the trope & ending izzy fell into

point being:

david jenkins, sir, i respect your writing and love your show but that was absolutely NOT what was going on there

Izzy wanted to get fucked nasty but Ed's a bottom so it never worked out

[fregglover]

Wow okay so looking at the timeline of Eps 4-7 of Our Flag Means Death Season 2… Stede and Ed really did go fast

(Spoilers under the cut)

Okay so Ep 4- Ed wakes up from his Coma, Anne and Mary’s house of horrors happens and then he and Stede go back to the ship.

Episode 5 is the NEXT DAY because he’s been allowed back on the ship! We get our little adventures, Pete and Lucius are engaged, and then the You Wear Fine Things Well 2 with a little Take it Slow

Episode 6 is the NEXT DAY!!!! Pete and Lucius have been in their love nest for 24 hours!! Stede and Ed HAVE SEX 24 HOURS AFTER THEIR TAKE IT SLOW TALK

Episode 7 is the NEXT DAY!!!! Ed and Stede woke up in bed together and talked about their near death experience!!! Izzy congratulates them on their hook up! And then of course Stede is riding the high of killing a man, becoming infamous, having romantic sex with Ed to literal fireworks- and Ed begins to drown!!!

I didn’t internalize that eps 4-7 are literally FOUR DAYS APART that is INSANE! No wonder Ed freaked the fuck out, they are not going slow AT ALL! He needs some TIME

This is especially wild because from a quote from Pete in ep 5 we know that the interval between Season 1 and Season 2 is only “weeks”, not months (so maybe like 2 months max?)

And Stede and Ed went from broken up and hurting to having a VERY intense relationship in just 4 days?????

The whim prone boys continue to whim!!!

And I really hate to say it but it is kind of setting me up to like the concept of Stede’s spouse on land while he goes to sea- like Ed stays and runs a Inn or at least fixes up a cottage while Stede is out gallivanting around- he can come back regularly (2 weeks on, 2 weeks off) and gift Ed beautiful things, such as pearls and silks, that he stole. Meanwhile Ed can go full retirement mode- he can fish, make friends with the neighbors.

However this also doesn’t fit well- I think Ed needs people around him and wouldn’t do well being alone in a house by himself, and Stede is still p bad at fighting lol and would need more people by his side (the crew helps but like… Blackbeard would help more lol)

I don’t know man, excited to see how we find solid ground in the finale!

[faffounette]

I'm disappointed that S2 has become Izzy discourse.

He should have mallowed a bit but stayed an antagonist and killed in s3 not for Ed but in a big battle against the british. His death This season was lame.

Izzy betrayed Ed and told him being himself was a fate worse than death and drove Ed to insanity.

Ed didn't care Izzy was banished from the ship after the duel and abused and shot him and Made him a cripple in s2.

Their relationship was so toxic and I don't get how we went from that to Izzy doing drag, dying in the finale like martyr, Ed calling him his only family and david describing izzy as a father figure.

The show was supppsed to be about the journey of the gentleman pirate and his relationship with the crew and blackbeard. But we got little of that.

A little was left of the gentleman pirate. No talk of books, fine things and the revenge. Stede had no depth this season. Ed and Stede barely talked about anything the whole season. Stede moved on so fast after killing two people. The crew was sidelined. Stede retiring was not discussed on screen.

I honestly throught they would be driven to retirement after destruction of the revenge in a big battle and after a fuckery ( no talk of fuckeries This season) in s3.

It pains me to see the whole crew with zheng and spanish Jackie sailing on the revenge as big family without Ed and Stede.

How can writers fuck up this bad. And I don't care wvat anyone says but S2 was a mess for every character involved.

[canonizzyhours]

I cant fucking take it anymore. I love Izzy all my friends love Izzy but I love the show too. I’m sick of being called an abuse apologist because I like Ed. I never shipped edizzy bc the interesting part is how unrequited Izzy’s feelings are. So he can pine for Ed and maybe someday realize his attempts to keep Ed are only hurting them both. Maybe find a new love. And okay he died and I was devastated but his speech was perfect. His apology. I loved it. He was wrong in season one everything he did was wrong. Ed deserved an apology. Now Con says that Ed and Izzy never had a romantic relationship and I feel vindicated. I was right. People tried to convince me otherwise but Ed was not attracted to Izzy. Now my friends are telling me that “not romantic” means “purely sexual” and for fucks sake ship whatever you want but don’t tell me the stuff you made up is canon. Izzy was never a sexual prospect for Ed or Stede. Steddyhands was never ever going to be endgame. I’m starting to lose friends because I don’t treat fic as canon. I feel insane I feel like I have to be wrong that the main romance is Ed and Stede because everyone around me insists Ed and Izzy were together.

My friends think I’m a traitor I don’t know what to do. I am sick of them complaining about “antis” and David Jenkins all day. I have to get out of here slowly and quietly so no one calls me out for being an abuse apologist, it’s so hurtful just because I like a fictional character I will be called an abuser and shunned.

#43.

[riverwithoutbanks]

screaming crying throwing up

‘You wear fine things well’ god I’m losing my fucking mind. I fucking screeched. That was so beautiful. Losing my shit.

Apart from THAT. I like where it’s going. I like how the show is exploring relationships. No one is healthy here, but some of them are trying to get better. I’m very confused about ep 4 though. Wtf is up with Button? I love him I don’t want him to go 😢 Also Bonny and Read? Will we see more of them? They were balls to the walls insane I’m obsessed.

I know this season is not over, but it will be soon and I see a lot of themes and character development, but not much of an overarching plot… Like all the pieces are there, but when will they come together? Or is it just a transition into s3?

Anyways loving Izzy’s redemption, how Stede is getting better at being a pirate, and how Ed is dropping the mask and subsequently saving his relationships with the crew.

Crying over Lucius and Pete. They were adorable. I hate them. Lucius is bae fave character <333