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please-read-the-manga · 2 days ago

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It's all good man, just offering a few caveats before I start:

1.) I never read and have very little interest in Itachi Shinden as it's a light novel (maybe that will change someday, though). That being said I think I (roughly) know about some of the elements you're hinting at (between Fugaku and Itachi) from the novel but not any specifics. I know some people hold them as absolute canon while others completely disregard them, etc. For me, I see them as somewhere in-between, but like I said I fully admit I'm unfamiliar with them. The original manga is where it is at with me.

2.) I literally say in the post/disclaimer that Fugaku is not infallible. This isn't a post to glaze him lol and I even critique how he handled Itachi outside of the moment shown AND criticize Madara as well. It's mostly intended as an examination comparing two perspectives that were striking to me (Fugaku's and Hashirama's) that, again, to me, appear contradictory in an intriguing way. If that means it shouldn't exist in the Itachi tag, I can always remove that so as to not bother his fans here (I just thought since he was mentioned I should tag it that way).

3.) I'm never going to grant that the Uchiha genocide was in anyway necessary or justified. Full stop. So, if there's some element of trying to get me to see 'why' it was done 1.) I already understand the varying character perspectives on it (namely those from Itachi and Danzo), but 2.) I will personally never view those as legitimate/justifiable. I feel very strongly over how events like these are portrayed in media. That being said, again... everything is complex. We can examine (as I'm open to do) the dimensions that exist within the clan politics we're shown in the manga as well as the actions of complicated/contradictory characters like Madara, I just draw the line at ever seeing genocide as a solution to those layered problems. The massacre of every single Uchiha (including civilians, children not named Sasuke, and those likely not even involved in the coup plans) is unjust and I will firmly stand by that. Sorry.

This comes before Hiruzen shoots down Danzo's claim that the 'Uchiha will not be dissuaded' as Hiruzen hasn't even tried diplomacy yet, nor does he get the chance. Danzo makes it clear that his decision to unjustly (I stand by that word) indiscriminately slaughter an entire group of people through Itachi is preemptive. Actions by the Uchiha have not been taken yet, diplomacy has not yet been pursued and Danzo ensures it never will once he presents Itachi with his horrific 'choices'.

Okay, so hopefully that clarifies a bit right off the bat, and I apologize for not being well-versed on Itachi Shinden - my analysis here is restricted to the manga.

(Hopefully this is the correct formatting for replies. This got... really long lol, so I'll cut it up here).

Criticising Fugaku for his terrible parenting is not the same as portraying him as a "demon of hatred and cruelty." It's not even a prevelent opinion in the fandom. Itachi gets way more hate, is demonised way more than Fugaku, even if Fugaku was the one who shaped him, abandoned him, and became one of the biggest reasons why the massacre even happened in the first place. The man could have stopped it all by paying more attention to Itachi after Shisui's death. But nope. He had in fact sent Shisui to spy on his own son.

I guess it's impossible to measure who gets more hate (or I wouldn't know how to do that anyway) but this write-up was never meant to be a comparison between Fugaku and Itachi? Other than their interactions with one another, that is. In my experience, I have more commonly seen portrays of Fugaku being this caricature of an evil villain who lives to ruin Sasuke's life... I actually think the fan works that present Fugaku as a more complex character with honest looks into his parenting difficulties are really refreshing.

Fugaku is awkward. That's something Mikoto outright states and that's something Sasuke acknowledges/agrees with enough to find comfort in following her pointing it out. He doesn't know the right thing to say all the time, but I absolutely do not think this negates his love for his sons.

When Itachi is being wrongly criticized by other clan members over the death of Shisui and his own commitment to the clan's cause, Fugaku defends Itachi and adds weight to Itachi's reasoning for his behavior.

Again, I'm not sure if Itachi Shinden negates these flashbacks, and we can maybe examine the fact they're from Sasuke's POV (these are Sasuke's memories and he was very obviously a child here), but I re-read them and see a father struggling to understand the conflict his son is navigating through but still standing by his child in a way that he can. We can say that it's 'not enough' but to me, here, I don't believe Fugaku is abandoning him. I know we can likely agree too, that too much responsibility was put onto to Itachi - he was far too young to be navigating politics at this level and being used not just as a pipeline from the clan to the village, but the reverse as well through Hiruzen, Danzon and the Elders' own machinations.

So, maybe we'll just have to agree to disagree that Itachi gets more hate, as you say. Really the only measure I could think of is that Fugaku is a MUCH smaller character compared to Itachi and his impact on general fan opinion may be a lot smaller as a result? But, in my opinion, Itachi frequently gets a lot of fan support and is a very popular character, to the extent many don't criticize his actions at all (though there is, of course, some good critical analysis out there). As a fan of certain characters like Madara (whew and isn't he an interesting mess lol) and Sasuke, who certainly have their fair share of awesome fans/positive reception, I know what it's like to see those negative opinions/write-ups slip through that I feel are major misinterpretations haha, and it can be so hard to ignore them sometimes lol. So I get it.

"Unjustly" even if it happened due to the bad decisions made by Fugaku himself, for years, throwing his son to the wolves, preparing him as a weapon so he would be useful for war against the village while having no idea of the future afterwards. Fugaku only realised he had been wrong and destroyed Itachi's life. If he had known this before, he wouldn't have thought of the coup as the only solution to their plight. And even if he had, he wouldn't have dragged his child into this mess to turn him into a killing machine. He was more excited about Itachi's Anbu mission than Sasuke's Academy.

I've kind of belabored this point already, but yes... unjustly. Placing the blame for his family's genocide solely on Fugaku is an interesting take. Again, maybe Itachi Shinden has some revelations I've never heard of, but I think we may be reaching with the 'no idea of the future afterwards' when we literally are not privy to any of those exact conversations. We just don't know (and there's so much we don't know). We don't know what the Uchiha had actually prepared in regards to the coup... how far along they were (though some characters with their own distinct biases have opinions on this, I'd argue we still don't objectively know). We never get a chance to see if diplomacy may have played out, but enough characters do speculate that the massacre may not have been so inevitable (Minato mentions the UCM being his fault for passing away, Itachi literally wonders before he is released from the edo tensei if Sasuke could have changed things, etc)... all that speculation, to me, reveals that it was never so black and white.

I do agree that Fugaku likely had many regrets. Again, he's a realistically flawed parent (to me) in what I observe in these panels. He's, as pointed out, incredibly awkward and when Itachi does point out to him how badly Sasuke wants his father at his attendance ceremony, he acquiesces. I feel the need to stress that I'm not really going out of my way to defend him here, but I am pointing out there are layers to his character that likely influence his actions (even if we are not told so explicitly)... he is the clan head, his clan is being discriminated against (and this has occurred for decades now), his clan is rightfully upset at this mistreatment, and it's all coming to a head. Further, as clan head, there is an expectation (right or wrong) that his heir will inherit his responsibilities and duties one day. I agree that's a lot to put onto a child (especially one who is also being hounded after by the village higher-ups for their own gain), but I do think it's worthwhile to remember that this is what Fugaku is dealing with...

I, personally, don't think he was setting out to ruin his son while laughing manically as he planned new ways to overwhelm Itachi and give him more crushing responsibilities lol - I jest a bit, sorry. If that were the case, I don't think he would encourage Itachi to stand by his convictions in the end, nor do I think he would defend his son to the clan even as said son lowkey showcased some alarming behavior (just to clarify here so nothing gets misconstrued, the POV here is that of other members of the clan who are already suspicious of him - it's not my opinion, we the reader know why Itachi is acting that way).

To dive in further, this scene, where Itachi refuses to explain his mission to his father and is going to take the mission in lieu of the clan meeting, is one where we see a very stern Fugaku who is exerting his authority in the parent-child relationship and reiterating what he expects of Itachi (this difficult balance between clan and village responsibilities when tensions are at an all-time high). It is negative, it is harsh. We still see him later, however, (as mentioned earlier) defending Itachi's decision not to attend and standing by his son when the other clan members confront him. Again, not an infallible guy, but hardly this 'evil' father he gets painted as.

Fugaku did not stand by Itachi's side. Not when it was needed. So this moment only serves to make a 12-year-old Itachi feel more guilty.

Here, I think you are referring to the aftermath of Shisui's suicide? As far as I know, I don't think there was anything specifically mentioned about Fugaku's response or absence of a response to the suicide, but I'll re-read Fugaku's manga panels and see if there's something to add here. If it gets addressed, I don't remember it being in the manga. But like I said, I'll check, I'm unfamiliar on this.

Not exactly sure why this is always used as a criticism towards Hashirama. Once you're a leader of the people, they're your responsibility. And if your family/friends cause any trouble and put the lives of thousands others you're responsible for on risk, you must choose. I don't remember Hashirama saying he'd kill a child, but that if it were his own child. Again, this is Shinobi world, and some kids can be more dangerous than the adults. Madara was involving innocent people in his mess. Hashirama had every right to protect the people who had put their faith in him.

In reference to this line:

It's never stated directly in these Hashirama flashbacks, but we eventually learn that Madara came back to the village with the Nine-Tails solely to challenge him with the (as we, the reader, know) hidden intent of harvesting some of Hashirama's DNA (biting his flesh) for his new 'dream' plan. Madara also doesn't deny it, though, when Hashirama asks if Madara intends to destroy everything they've built together. As much as I enjoy Madara, I have no delusions that he can be a horrendous communicator lol. He is capable of opening up just a bit, like when he shows Hashirama the secret tablet that no other outsider has ever been permitted to see (ie. a big deal) after his doubts are beginning to mount about the village and its future. He literally reveals his doubts and uncertainties, opening up, only to then immediately clam up again (very confusingly, to Hashirama) when Hashirama asks for more clarification. Ah, in some ways this is making me want to examine the two of them as a struggle between show-don't-tell and the reverse, where Madara seems to prefer grand, revealing gestures but Hashirama appreciates more direct words - but alas, that's a post idea for another day.

Now, I can agree with you reminding us that it's the shinobi world and we know they operate with different principles and values... but on the level of examining what I consider Fugaku's unconditional love and Hashirama's implication here (and I interpret that line as him implying he would absolutely take the same actions he's taking with Madara, even if it were his son/brother/etc doing it) my personal take on it and what I relate to more is Fugaku standing by his son and refusing to battle him. I think you may see that as Fugaku foisting more guilt onto Itachi (I also don't want to put words in your mouth though), but I read it more as Fugaku trying to impart one final lesson that is encouraging Itachi to be prepared now that he will walk this new path alone. Similarly, I couldn't fathom killing my own child even if I knew they were doing wrong - so my interpretation of Hashirama's words here are to view them as cruel and cold. That doesn't mean you wouldn't remove said child from being able to cause harm in some way (you absolutely should) but to kill them is a step I can't imagine taking. In such a circumstance (though I imagine I'd hopefully never be in one lol) I think I'd take Fugaku's approach.

All of that, at the end of the day, is pure personal opinion and perspective influenced by diverging values and life experiences. It's absolutely okay for others to disagree here, this post is merely my interpretation of what we have in the manga along with critique regarding fan portrayals that I believe fail to offer nuance to Fugaku/Hashirama regarding these perspectives. I haven't been around long enough in this tumblr space to know why it's 'always' used, but I'd be eager to see other interpretations/sentiments on it. That moment has always stayed with me.

100% Fugaku's fault. He wasn't supposed to use his son as a weapon. He should have talked to the Hokage instead of using Itachi. The oppression was wrong but Fugaku took his vulnerable child and exposed him to extreme violence. Leave aside the fact that he didn't even think of the consequences of the coup.

So, again, I'm a bit lost regarding the 'consequences of the coup' and which panels he mentions he's just going in blind, full-speed ahead everything else be damned? The truth is we never get to see (at least in the manga) if they were ready to ahead with the coup. Danzo, an incredibly biased voice, believes they could take out the Uchiha easily and preemptively. Perhaps they could, but we don't know because Danzo violated the Hiruzen's call for diplomacy, gave Itachi a ridiculous choice, set his own immediate timetable, and went for it anyway.

I really don't vibe with the implication that Fugaku is solely at-fault for his people's own genocide... especially with the oppression and discrimination they were facing. In the panels (and sadly we only really get Sasuke's, Itachi's, and a bit of Obito's POV on the night of the massacre - all of whom are likely, in some way, biased), I don't see anything where Danzo's preemptive rush against the clan was warranted. Planning is not doing - oh, it's still a crime in the eyes of the government, but we were never past the point of no return (ie. actual action) regarding this supposed coup.

Also, if we're granting more weight to the shinobi world and its structure (which I think makes sense, you're right) then we need to acknowledge that Itachi was always going to, unfortunately, take part in the system of violence. Kakashi is also extremely young when he is thrust into the shinobi world and bogged down with horrific responsibilities. The case of Itachi and Kakashi being far too young for the violence expected of them is actually revealing of how flawed Konoha is and how bastardized it became from Hashirama/Madara's initial dream. To them, Konoha was meant to be a place where their younger brothers wouldn't have to fight, where kids could be kids... yet more wars continued where child soldiers were demanded, children were tasked to contend with deadly engagements (including the state-sanctioned chunin exams), even in Boruto (lol) this shit is STILL not fixed. Throughout the story we repeatedly see that the village is a hypocritical mess built on a faulty foundation that constantly fuels the 'cycle of hatred' it claims to fight against. It's a broken state that creates tragedies like Itachi and Sasuke. It destroys people like Kakashi. Their world is a very cruel one.

Now, I think you're really going to dislike this comparison but I think it's interesting that this concept of 'Fugaku taking a vulnerable child and exposing him to extreme violence' in an effort to prepare him for the harshness of the world and make him 'stronger' is quite literally what Itachi tries to do to Sasuke. So, if we grant that Fugaku is also a product of this corrupt, violent state and he knows said state discriminates against people like him and we also task him with being both a clan head that must operate for the village (Chief of Police) and for his clan (the Uchiha who are being oppressed) while additionally traumatizing him with wars and baggage of his own (that we don't quite know the details of, but is implied) and then, after all that, ask him to be a 'good' father and raise his sons so they can survive in such a world... idk, it's a pretty tall order, right? And now let's go a step further, we then have Itachi who similarly mimics these difficult circumstances (bearing multiple, very heavy responsibilities to diverging entities), is also traumatized and mentally unwell, wants desperately to protect his younger brother out of love but doesn't really have a 'healthy' (or what we could consider healthy in our world) example to pull from beyond what he personally endured/experienced... we then finally come to the case of Sasuke who is forced to bear Itachi's torture that mentally and emotionally scars him for life.

We know that Itachi believes this was the right decision, that Sasuke had to become strong to survive and THIS is how Itachi understands survival. The torture that sought to change Sasuke from what he was at his core (an innocent, kind child) came from Itachi's perception of love and the tools/knowledge he had at his disposal within his limited circumstances (though if we can play with the idea that Fugaku could have found a way to stop the coup, maybe, I think we can also play with the idea that Itachi could have found a way to not violently torture Sasuke and utterly devastate his life). I've never said that Itachi isn't also traumatized and a victim of the shinobi system, he absolutely is, but in some ways I believe there is a cycle of violence being passed down that is framed (by the characters) as a way to 'prepare them for the reality of their world' and they do so out of a sense of love... and, in that, Itach is both a victim and a perpetrator of grave harm.

To us, the reader, this is all very nasty on every level. Again, I never said Fugaku was perfect (not by any means) and I don't think Itachi is evil or anything, I really like his scenes with Sasuke and the layers of tragedy they hold - I think they're all (Fugaku included) victims of the corrupt rot that runs through Konoha and began at its foundation.

Oy, but I've probably gone on too long now. I felt these points were worth clarifying. Apologies again for not being well-versed on Itachi-Shinden... if it really is so revealing, I wish those scenes you're alluding to had been included in the OG manga so we'd know about them!

I guess I'll grant that some of this may have been a bit of 'Fugaku defense squad' lol, but I am really just trying to help frame him based on what we see in the manga. This also isn't meant to dog on Itachi or Hashirama... they're both good, complicated characters in my opinion. Ultimately, I personally think Fugaku's final moments with Itachi are filled with compassion and what I view as unconditional love from a parent. Others might not see it that way and I think that's fine. As for Hashirama, I think weighing the state over your closest friends and own family is pretty damn cold and not something I agree with morally, but again... it's individual. This is how I take these scenes.

Hm, been contemplating these panels lately and thinking about which character is constantly demonized within the fandom/fan works involving them and which is frequently viewed as the ultimate loving and moral person...

And:

One is a man bearing the supposed 'Curse of Hatred' who loves his children so much that he is continuing to parent and offer unconditional love to his son even after said son has already participated in the brutal state-sanctioned genocide of their people/culture and is about to end his (and his wife's - who, btw, is on the same page as him) life.

The other is a man from the supposed 'Clan of Love' who boldly holds the conviction that he would cease his compassion towards even his own child if they stood against him and his dream (the village), regardless of the fact his dream (the village) is a corruptible entity that does not maintain personhood.

Interestingly, I think there is something to be said for the fact both Fugaku and Hashirama are also shown struggling to understand Itachi and Madara (respectively).

Fugaku is actually quite honest regarding his issues in relating to Itachi and while we're not always privy to all the conversations they've had about the state of the clan/sentiment of the Leaf village towards their people, it's clear that those discussions have been had. While the panels where we do see more explicit conversations taking place show Fugaku reiterating to Itachi that his role in ANBU is to serve as a pipeline between the clan/village (which could be argued as an unfair burden foisted onto a child, in my opinion) there are also moments that indicate Fugaku is willing to defer to Itachi (at least on some topics) when his son offers a contradictory viewpoint (like attendance at Sasuke's entrance ceremony, for example).

Side note... this also reminds me of the very short (unfortunately) interactions we see between Madara and his father, Tajima. Tajima clearly respects his son as well and defers to him when Madara insists that they not fight Hashirama and his family on the river - Tajima accepts this from his son without pause.

Alternatively, we also see Madara trying to explain his perspective to a skeptical Hashirama before he commits to taking more drastic actions. Madara is trying to articulate his frustrations with what is happening in the village/how it is progressing with regards to his clan and (even though we never really get Madara's own unfiltered perspective on this time period) we are shown instances of Madara's grievances holding water (ie. Tobirama advocating for Madara not to be made Hokage, but instead pushing randomly for a democratic system that never seems to actually be cemented or made precedent within the village afterwards but absolutely benefits Hashirama/the Senju in the short-run, Madara 'overhearing' Tobirama's continued bias against the Uchiha in private conversations between the brothers, Hashirama continuing to scold his brother -someone who had ample power within the system of governance since its inception- for his bias against the clan even when they're brought back via the edo tensei, etc). Hashirama tries to (weakly, in my opinion) defend the village status quo/way it is progressing and seems to want to better understand Madara, but isn't willing or is unable to go that extra mile for his friend - and, perhaps in some ways, Madara too was unwilling/unable to articulate himself in a more digestible way once their divergence of opinion on their shared village came to this new crux.

Ultimately, I just find it interesting that Fugaku, this character who is often portrayed by fans as a demon of hatred and cruelty, would (in reality) stand by his son even in his darkest hour, even as he is unjustly slaughtering their family, and continue to reaffirm that he is proud of Itachi/loves him - and this is directly counter to Hashirama who asserts he would absolutely kill anyone (including a child) that stood between him protecting that which he loves the most (the village).

And, of course, we also have this to chew on lol...

Sasuke explaining to edo Hashirama that Itachi inherited his 'Will of Fire' jingoism.

Mandatory disclaimer that Fugaku is not infallible and all the characters here (but Fugaku and Hashirama in particular) are their own people/the circumstances do vary (especially as one relationship is framed in the context of father-son and the other as two friends/peers)... I should also note that I still enjoy Hashirama as a character, I just think his flaws are often under-examined and that the hypocrisy inherent to the 'Will of Fire' philosophy/the Leaf Village (and by extension the shinobi world) is equally neglected especially when it comes to this fandom's love of tearing down the Uchiha to their worst traits/moments. But, man, something about these two panels and character portrayals in particular have just been eating at me the past few days, so I figured I'd try to work out some thoughts on them.

#hope this is digestible #no hate commentator just wanted to clarify my stance here - when you talk morality we're all bound to perceive things differently #that's for sure lol #this was never an anti itachi post lol but i'm sorry it may have come off that way #there is certainly a lot of critique regarding character actions though #response #fugaku uchiha #idk do you tag a response?#anti konoha #long post #reply #naruto

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paintingpuff · 1 year ago

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Tadinho - also known as the Poor Boy or the Crow Child, a Harvestman known to cruelly punish wrongdoers. After days of stalking and terrorizing, he will appear at one's door in the form of a child begging for aid.

One must follow all of his requests as a host before he leaves in the morning. If the host shows a hint of fear during that time, their soul is his.

Because he represents the death that people flee from, he is incapable of hurting those who hold no fear of dying.

#far #athalya #tadinho #harvestmen #cw scopophobia #cw body horror #cw death #horror #folklore #comic #art #oc art #artists on tumblr #this comic took way longer than i expected #hopefully with it done i'll be posting more again #illustration #far lore

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aliquidether · 7 months ago

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Obbligato

#tw eyestrain #this is VERY experimental and was also drawn at 2 am so don't look at it too closely #was reading obbligato and felt inspired #also i'll start posting more consistently again as soon as i'm done with exams. hopefully #ensemble stars #enstars #enstars fanart #obbligato #tatsumi kazehaya #kazehaya tatsumi

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melien · 9 months ago

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#sims #ts3 #sims 3 #photoshoots #character verse #terra perez #berry version ->#terracotta pepper #due to a sudden personal crisis I can't get in a good headspace to post the swiftacy #or some photoshoots I've done #but hopefully maybe from the second half of may I'll start posting and playing more regularly again I'm very excited for it #and here's some random drafts stuff in the meantime

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lock-my-feelings-in-a-jar · 1 month ago

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i think, since there's so much, i should make my queue more active throughout the day and tag the things i'll be re-queuing so i can just go through the list in my archive to restock it easier

also i might restock the same ones i had in the queue before that it posted already just to start it over again so i can tag everything in better order without confusing myself

but it won't restart anyway until may when the 516 posts in there are done posting

or sooner if i increase the queue output

#me #as you can see #i have 0 plans to stop spamming everybody with the same russ posts repeatedly #i'm saying a lot of things about my queue but i haven't even done anything about it yet #i said earlier i have to add more to it #and then i immediately forgot and got distracted #and now here i am just saying things again without doing #and it's almost bedtime for me #will i actually act on any of this tomorrow?#hopefully #but we will see #anyway i have more gifs to post but i'll save them for tomorrow too #mostly because i want them to stay in my drafts so i can look at them before i sleep tonight #without worrying about reblogging a bunch of stuff and then having to scroll through my blog to get to them again #russ's smile is so very precious #and that's all i'll say about it #for now #i had another plan to gif something #but i think that'll be a bigger job than i thought it was gonna be #i mean it doesn't HAVE to be but it might bother me if it isn't #if that makes sense at all #i'm not explaining it either #but anyway #i'll stop rambling now

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supercasey · 2 months ago

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10,750 words, I am absolutely fucking insane, wtf

#supercasey ramblings #anyways the shadow fic is going well. chp 2 is done and i'm only making 3 so i'm almost done #pretty sure at this point that i'll publish but i'm still nervous for a variety of reasons:#1. it's in the sonic movie universe and i haven't watched literally any of them yet. but i hate watching things so ugh #i really do wanna watch them! but unfortunately my flavor of adhd hates sitting still for movies #and 2. it's most certainly an au since it'll be a post-third movie story #and because we still don't know the exact details of sonic 3 it's a very wild guess of the movie's events #right now i'm making it more based on sa2 complete with the moon half exploding #again this probably isn't a big deal but i'm anxious nonetheless #so yeah. i guess i'll see if i can manage to watch the movies before posting this #but it'll definitely come out before the third movie premiers #watch as my fic is nothing like the movie and is utter clownshoes #oh well. tis the nature of writing for fandoms i guess #anyways get ready for my self-indulgent fic of a self insert adopting/fostering shadow the hedgehog post-sonic 3 #it's gonna be terrible. but also not #sorry for the rambling lol i'm debating on writing more but it's already 10:33 i should really head to bed #might write more tomorrow after work but we'll see. hopefully i can finish the first draft by friday #for no reason other than i want to

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wickedhawtwexler · 1 year ago

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one good thing that's going to come out of me being unemployed for a bit is that i'm going to finally finish all my current quilting projects

#i told myself (and more importantly. my grandmother.) that i'm not buying any more fabric until i have a job again #last night i gave myself a budget and bought the fabric i need to finish what i've started #WITH one exception which is the quilted bisexual pride flag. joann's had some pride fabric on clearance so i had to lmao #i'll (hopefully lmao) be employed before pride but i've gotta start the quilt soon if i want it done for pride #anywayyy now it's just Grind Time until i finish everything!!! i'll def have the time & i won't be tempted by new projects #i have so many fun projects i'm excited to finish. i'll post pics on here when i'm done bc i think y'all will like them!!!#most of them are obnoxiously bright and colorful so they're extremely on brand for me lmao #m.txt

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jichanxo · 8 months ago

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still on the topic of titles: though i can see why you wouldn't, but isn't it hard for you to let go of placeholder names? and an unrelated new question: if i remember correctly, in senseific, you've completed writing the kuwagami part, but not the school stories part? do you have a problem with stringing it together, so that the relationships/events would fit with e/o naturally? (i hope i phrased that coherent enough)

this is long as usual, so

on titles:

the working titles are too literal and functional for me to get that attached to them, I think. It’s just shorthand for the larger idea itself. I suppose if there’s a placeholder title I like enough, then I’d keep it/adapt it into something similar. Funnily enough I’m probably likelier to think of titles/captions for my drawn artworks, though the file names themselves are still super literal lmao. those ones are usually the ones I’ve planned out in advance, because I want to convey a specific idea and it can be hard to do that visually without having a plan.

obligatory examples: this arasawa piece -- the text itself was a key part of the storytelling, so this one was decided early, about the same time as my initial sketches. it's two parts, duty and desire, conveyed in imagery and words, both important. this schrödinger's cat themed umineko artwork -- i didn't really have anything concrete for this for a long while, but this was always about flux and uncertainty, so the words were always floating around in my head when i was making this.

on senseific:

STRINGING THE TWO PLOTLINES TOGETHER, OH BOY. this is very much something I have to just… wait and see on. If my process for the kuwagami plotline is any indication, then I probably will have to rewrite/shift things around when I find something doesn’t work. That’s part of why I made an excel sheet for this fic, so I (hopefully) can see which parts aren’t meshing and how I might be able to resolve them. Move things around, put them earlier or later, etc. and of course, there needs to be breathing room so it feels like they have lives that exist outside of each other. I’m feeling kind of nervous thinking about it right now. I suppose I just have to try?

I have tried to consider where these two plotlines would interact, but I just need more details to make sure I get it right, hence my need for note taking. I've also left a bunch of gaps so that there's room to let it grow in between kuwagami stuff.

The school related (as in, including school stories but also other stuff that takes place there) stuff I have right now is something like:

Thing I invented for the intro

Follow up to this, resolution, lead into kuwagami story beat

the conclusion to the dance club story (as far as my vague memory could get me), but With Kitakata. since the dance club is so early, it was an easy choice as a kind of starting point

Itokura related thing I invented and desperately need to flesh out

Follow up to that

(Imagine a big gap of time here)

6. big moment that’s simultaneously a kuwagami beat and a school story beat -- yagami's continued refusal to trust kitakata or let him in on the investigation, resulting in the two of them getting into a physical fight. amasawa ends up going to sawa sensei to get them to break it up, and yagami realises that kitakata has a right to be worried for his students and shutting him out was a dick move actually (spoilers? but I’ve already talked about this scene before, so…)

and from this last point it's pretty obvious that kitakata has to be involved with the conclusion of the case. i haven't written anything yet because i need to do the rest first, but this is almost certainly happening despite not being written down yet

but yeah, because my process is Like This, I kind of have no choice but to present the story in chronological order to make sure that everything progresses logically. ...honestly the structure of the ever-changing is obscenely impressive to me, I suppose it’s the power of planning — that you can go back and forth in time while keeping it meaningful and coherent. I love it so much… I will never stop singing the praises of the ever-changing, genuinely...

anyway, while i say the kuwagami plot is done, it's still pretty open, it's just that i've locked in what i think the major conflicts and resolutions are for that relationship. there's still room for the other plot to grow into (i hope) and in worst case I can tinker a bit with rewriting some stuff to make it work.

#jitxt #kitakata sensei #this was about writing but. a little bit of artist process talk as well #it can be fun to think about these processes in comparison to each other #anyway after flicking through my doc again today i'm feeling a bit more motivated!#“how are you going to merge these two plotlines together” “i'll handle it”#“and how are you gonna handle it” “i'll just deal with it”#(that one shirou meme is me rn)#my confidence on doing it fluctuates. but all i can do is say i'll do my best and see how it goes #this is what i have. this is what i gotta work with #but at the very least hopefully this helps show my train of thought #excuse the compliment detour. i don't think i can overstate how impressed i was reading the ever changing the first time #i clicked it thinking “well it's not done but i wanna read kuwagami so i'll try it and see how i feel”#and then it was so good that i read every chapter #but yeah i um... read a snippet i wrote of kitakata and yagami on a date and suddenly i'm energised again #gotta keep writing so they can go on their date yknow 🙏#...going to post this before i start overthinking it again 😔

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violetsareblue-selfships · 9 months ago

Text

good morning!! <3

#more penacony for today :3 #again i tend to take doing the story pretty slowly #plus i try to get as much exploration done at the same time so i don't have to go back later #but anyways #it should be fun #i've been having a lot of fun with the anniversary board game thingy too :3 #other than that...#i saw that post about writing wedding vows for you & your f/o #and since i've been wanting to do something for my scara wedding (which i was wanting to be tomorrow (3/30)) might try that #then i could write a fic to go for the first anniversary next year #bc i'm still kinda struggling to write when i want to #but maybe vows would be easier since they'd be shorter/more contained #oh! also i have those asks to answer so hopefully I'll get those done #anyways #i hope today/tonight is a good one! <3 #morning rambles

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allmoshnobrain · 1 year ago

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are you gonna make me cry with Heartbreaker 25?

🩷🖤

Oh no, anon! 25 is not gonna be too sad I promise

Parts 26 and 27 on the other hand are... Complicated

#🩷🖤 anon #ada's asks #anon ask #i'm on a really good writing streak lately!#i have a few new parts ready but i'll post them once a week so i have time to write more #and won't enter a hiatus again if life gets hectic and i have no time to write for a while #hopefully i can get the whole story done very soon #if that happens i'll go back to posting twice a week so you don't have to wait too much for new updates!

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detransdamnation · 2 years ago

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Maybe i am in a bit of a blind spot now but stumbling upon your blog and a few of your last answers made me question - if gender roles were nonexistent in society so the sex a person has wouldnt dictate how they are treated - how could someone develop an unease about something truly neutral? I know there are sex differences in humans and thats what we talk about when we speak of transsexual people - the desire to change sex based on a terrifyingly strong discomfort with the one one has. But i am at a loss when it comes to understanding where would that discomfort even start/be influenced by (again as long as the sex you are would make everything neutral) because i always assumed that its that dichotomy of how society views females and males is what later translates into the literal base of where it comes from which is one’s sex. Then - Would the dysphoria grow out of purely desiring something that one doesnt have along the lines the grass is greener on the other side? Getting to experience sex the way it feels like as the other sex (especially in case of not heterosexual people)? Or only An aesthetic pursue? If the only thing that differentiated us in society would be the biological abilities of our bodies and the appearance of it…why do you think would someone still come up with an idea of desiring the other?

After reading especially the last answer it made me think that after all there must be some truly transsexual people who are just born being transsexual. Thats why i decided to send it because i think you established somewhere that you believe there are no trans people who are trans ”just because”, just because they have a brain of the opposite sex trapped in the wrong body etc.

I hope this makes some sense, its not an attack on anything you said more of a big wonder and desire to understand better and i really hope it comes off this way.

You make total sense. Your message doesn't come off as an attack at all.

Anon, I'll be real with you. I reread my answer on whether or not I believe gender abolition would also abolish dysphoria. I did rush in writing that response, greatly so, so the way I phrased my thoughts was particularly subpar; however, as I was trying to tie everything together in this response to you, I realized that the viewpoint I argued didn't really make sense when I held it up to my other beliefs. So, this is a humble admittance that I was, frankly, talking out of my ass. I'm going to use this as an opportunity to reassess my beliefs on this topic and will be re-answering that question once I have done so.

In the meantime, one of the best ways to assess your beliefs is to argue something you disagree with or are unsure of, so I'm going to double down and continue the argument as if I'm completely confident that it's the truth, if only to hopefully better explain where I was coming from when I wrote my previous response. So, proposed argument: Gender abolition will not necessarily abolish sex dysphoria.

First of all, what causes dysphoria and how does gender fit into that framework? I talked about this at length here [AL] and here [AL]. I specifically want to zero in on something I said in the former link:

I [...] do not personally believe that there is a “main reason” on as to why dysphoria may develop in a young person in all cases. I suppose my own “main reason” would be that I fell into the trans community because I never thought seriously about transitioning prior to that time—but the thing is, even if I hadn’t, I would still be dealing with everything else that influenced my getting to this point. [...] If I were to take the trans community out of that equation, it would just be the influence of the trans community missing.

Let’s replace the influence of the trans community with the construct of gender and let’s fast forward to this hypothetical dream society where gender is not an existent thing. We can apply what I said above. We’ve taken away gender and its influences—but we still have everything else. There are numerous factors that could cause a person to develop sex dysphoria; in a genderless society, we have only taken away one. In order to shut down any possibility of dysphoria developing, we would need to get rid of every single possible factor and influence and that is just not a possible feat. Homophobia is a significant factor in many cases of dysphoria and will remain so in a genderless society unless efforts have been previously made to abolish it. No amount of social change will ever eradicate abuse, which can be a trigger in dysphoria in that (especially long-term) abuse victims are prone to redirecting emotional pain to certain aspects of themselves, especially in an effort to regain control, even though they may not “make sense.” It is also impossible for us to eradicate, for instance, natural aspects of our biology that are just plain inconvenient or uncomfortable, which may become objects of fixation (especially in puberty) and cause a person to develop sex dysphoria thereafter. These are just a few examples off of the top of the head—but they and more may all continue on as potential factors because these things, in and of themselves, do not have anything to do with what we have abolished. They do not cease to be potential precursors to mental illness, such as dysphoria, just because we have taken one precursor away.

But why dysphoria? Why would someone develop sex dysphoria in a genderless society if sexes were seen as entirely neutral? Well, let’s turn our attention to another mental illness that is perhaps most reflective of dysphoria (so reflective, in fact, that some people believe them to be one and the same): body dysmorphic disorder. Body dysmorphia is “a mental disorder characterized by the obsessive idea that some aspect of one's own body part or appearance is severely flawed and therefore warrants exceptional measures to hide or fix it.” One’s “flaws” cause significant distress, even to the point of seeking out cosmetic procedures in an aim to “fix” them. Anything can be a trigger in body dysmorphia, although some of the most common include facial features, hair, skin complexion, and coincidentally, sex characteristics such as breasts, facial hair, or genitals—which are all inherently neutral features. No physical feature is objectively “wrong” or “bad,” “good” or “right,” “pretty” or “ugly.” They just are.

So, then, we could ask the same question: Why would people with this disorder fixate on these features and develop an unease with them if they are truly neutral? We could argue the societal pressure of beauty ideals, and certainly, that is a factor in a lot of cases—but if body dysmorphia were truly an issue of how certain features are seen and treated, exclusively, then by all means and purposes, people who are considered to be conventionally attractive should not also be seen developing the disorder. Marilyn Monroe could be an example of this: considered one of the most beautiful women in the world in her time and years after and yet (was believed to have) struggled with body dysmorphia until the day that she died.

Things don’t have to be “not neutral” in order for someone to not like them. Things can be neutral and still cause one discomfort. Things can be seen and treated as indifferent by the collective and yet still be hated by the individual. Why do non-dysphoric people have insecurities at all? A lot of the time, they don’t have specific reasons. I don’t feel they need to have reasons. Just like I don’t feel dysphoric people need to have an ultimate reason on as to why we would develop sex dysphoria when we could have fixated on any other physical trait.

I think where people tend to get tripped up in these discussions is, they try to apply what they know to be reasonable to mental illnesses and how they present in order to rationalize, to themselves, what we are feeling and experiencing—but in doing so, I feel we easily lose sight of the fact that, even without mental illness, the brain does not need a logical reason to fixate on something, to hate something, to want to get rid of something. Marilyn Monroe having been an icon of beauty did not change the fact that she didn’t like her face—and my not believing in gender does not change the fact that I don’t like my sex and desire to be the opposite. Marilyn continued to feel the way she did because she had body dysmorphic disorder. I continue to feel the way I do because I have dysphoria. Both disorders alter how we perceive reality and cause us to believe things about ourselves that are not objectively true. We desire what we do not have because that is a symptom of the inherently nonsensical disorders that we have. That is all there is to it. That is our “why.”

And I am content just leaving it at that. It is my own personal stance that we cannot chase the logistics behind something that is not logical to begin with. At the end of the day, there is no ultimate reason for mental illness. Mental illness does not need to make sense. Mental illness only needs humanity. It will continue to exist no matter how humanity progresses.

So, under this argument, there are a few different points to be had, main ones being that gender abolition will not necessarily abolish sex dysphoria because gender and sex are not one and the same; to take away gender is to take away only one possible factor in one’s dysphoria; and although outside factors can (and do) influence dysphoria and would continue to do so in a genderless society on account of the previous two points, there’s ultimately no “reason” on as to why dysphoric people would continue to cling on to their sex in this society where the two sexes are seen and treated as the exact same—simply because dysphoria, being a mental illness, does not exist on a plane that is rational.

Considering these viewpoints and assuming that they all coexist in this genderless society, then, it may be easy to conclude, like you did, that some people are just born transgender. I do understand how you may have come to that conclusion after reading my response and even I, looking back, feel like that is what I insinuated, even though I did not mean to and was not coming from that position. To clarify, as I have stated before, I do not believe in the idea of “true trans,” and seeing as this is a belief that I actually hold very true to and have for a long time, I’d like to explain why. This is no longer me proposing an argument that I am merely “considering.” This is me demonstrating what I believe.

There are a few different things to consider in the statement, “People are born transgender,” starting with the implications of what it means to be transgender and specifically the dysphoric aspect of it. To suggest that someone could be born transgender is also to insinuate that someone could be born dysphoric, that someone could be born already set to hate their bodies as they grow older.

Of course, we could be less technical here. You may not be born with mental illness in the literal sense—but you can develop mental illness extremely early on in life. So, under the argument that dysphoria is a mental illness, dysphoria can develop from a very young age, and therefore the child, express (what may be interpreted as) a transgender identity. Okay, fair enough. What I have never received closure on is, if a young child exhibits hatred of any other part of their body for any other reason, it is universally considered abnormal, a red flag, something to treat—but as soon as gender or sex comes into the picture, this self-hatred becomes something to validate.

Let’s say that a young child tells you that they do not like their body. Without any other context, what would your first reaction be? Chances are, you would assume that someone or something in this child’s life has taught or influenced them to think this way, even if only inadvertently, and hopefully, you would rush to tell this child that there is nothing wrong with their body, that they are perfect just the way they are. But let’s say, after probing a little further, this young child tells you that they don’t “feel like” their sex, or that they want to be the opposite (in little kid terms). Would you then change your tune and decide that they were “born that way,” that they hate their body because they were just meant to be the opposite sex instead? If your answer is yes, or your no follows hesitancy, I have to wonder what, specifically, would change your mind. What is it about dysphoria that is so different from any other form of self-hatred? Moreover, what implications do you think there are in a child telling someone they presumably trust that they are uncomfortable in their body—and that trusted adult telling them that they are uncomfortable in their body because they were, indeed, born “wrong?”

This leads to an essential question that we, ironically, so often overlook. We have a dysphoric child in front of us. What would make them transgender? The most likely definition of a trans person that everyone could agree on would be someone who is dysphoric, likely someone who has been dysphoric since early childhood—but even that is not a perfect or even accurate definition because not all people with dysphoria go on to transition, not even people with long-term or “treatment-resistant” dysphoria. If dysphoria does not make a transgender person, what does?

Let’s say we have one-thousand dysphoric people in front of us and one person in the group—say, the young child in this analogy, now an adult—is transgender. The only thing that distinguishes this person from the rest of the group is the very act of transition. If this person had never transitioned, there would be no difference between them and the rest of the group. We would have a solid group of cisgender dysphoric people. The transgender person is distinguished only through action, self-identity and personal experience in attempts to accommodate that self-identity. “Brain sex” has been proven to be a myth, so we know there are no biological differences to point to them having “needed” to transition—and even under the possibility that there do exist biological markers in dysphoria that we have not discovered yet, that does not prove that people can be born transgender. At most, these markers could stand as predispositions, similar to how people can be carriers for certain diseases or have “bad genes” that make them more likely to suffer from certain ailments—but none of these things equate to destiny, and in fact, in the case of dysphoria, would only prove that a supportive environment could prevent it—and transgender identity—from coming into the picture at all.

The suggestion that some people are just “made” to go through with any action, including transition, is an insinuation of fate—and I do not believe in fate. I believe in free will to some extent, although that would open us up to the more philosophical question of whether free will is truly free, seeing as we are reflections of our environment and cannot completely separate ourselves from it. In either case, we have seen and established that we can both influence one to develop dysphoria, as well as prevent one from developing dysphoria, all depending on how we, as a society, treat them—and if the people around us can help to prevent dysphoria from becoming an issue entirely, thereby circumventing the desire to transition at all, it is impossible for transgender identity to be truly innate to any one person.

In summary and in closing, mental illness, including dysphoria, is encouraged by—and sometimes even brought on by—our surrounding environment in almost all cases. Environments naturally change overtime, and in the process, certain factors in mental illness may become less common or even disappear entirely; however, just because one goes away does not mean all others disappear. One of many of our possible futures as a society is one without gender, and unsurprisingly, this would get rid of gender as a trigger in dysphoria—but so long as no other factors have been dismantled in the process, they will continue on as potential influences in its development, even in this genderless society. It then may be easy to conclude that some people are just “born” transgender, especially seeing as how the development of sex dysphoria in a genderless society would be even more random (comparatively to that of a gendered one)—but that conclusion, that “Some people are just born that way,” would not be reached with any other mental illness, and beyond that, does not give us, the society, enough credit or responsibility. The fact that there are trans people who barely even remember not being trans, such as myself, stand not as proof that we are “true transsexuals” but as proof that we live in a society that is hostile to multiple vulnerable populations and it is up to us to change that. Gender abolition will not solve all of these problems and it may not even get rid of sex dysphoria entirely—but it is essential and a great place to start, which is why I continue to stand for it, even despite it not being a perfect fix.

I hope this gave you a little more to think on.

#i hope this didn't come off too accusatory or preachy #i tend to argue with myself when i write and i can never tell if i'd come off as harsh to someone else #because for all i'm concerned i'm looking at my normal train of thought lmao #anyway anon in the time i left you waiting for a response i have done a lot of thinking #and i have so many more thoughts on this topic than even i previously assumed #my beliefs have already actually rather significantly changed since my previous post #at least in that i am now looking at the situation with a lot more nuance that i had neglected to consider at the time #but hopefully the argument i proposed here paints a bit of a better picture on where i was coming from when i had originally written it #it's far from perfect but then again nothing is perfect to me so i'll just aim for... good enough.#and on another completely unrelated note i have no idea which anon this is because all of mine type the same #someone needs to take on a more distinctive typing style so i can tell who's who lmao #submission #answered #gender critical #writing #text #my post

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