#honestly like ship and let ship and this fandom is better about internalized misogyny than most ive been in

[macchiatosdumptruck]

When a fic portrays damanda as having an un-amicable divorce.

That ain't it cheif

[jostenneil]

Hi, did Chuck Dixon (when he was writing Stephanie) have Spoiler go on an anti-abortion rant? Also, the people who complain about politics in comics usually on care about left-wing politics being present in comics, I haven't seen much people complain about Dixon's copganda.

yeah, i believe it was around the 60s issues of his robin run? basically stephanie got pregnant from some random boyfriend she had (who as i remember quite literally appeared out of nowhere) and when she and her mother went to talk to the principal about it stephanie made a big fuss about how it wasn't right to abort the kid and she had to take responsibility, etc etc. it was very opportunistically timed given the debates that were going on about abortion in the national court system at the time, and i imagine it's something he did on purpose as such

dixon's propaganda, to me, makes it sort of easy to ascertain why so many of tim's fans are white (at least from what i've seen). i think he was very much writing from a sort of lived experience of the average straight white male teen at the time and so it's no wonder that so many writers in the present are fanboys of him. i think they felt recognized bc their experience as part of that demographic was recognized even tho we're obv aware it could hardly be called a unique experience, let alone an interesting one. and so the sociopolitical mindsets of the time and that showed up in his books were glossed over bc for the audience that was most avidly consuming them, this was the norm. they didn't realize there was anything wrong with it bc they weren't part of the demographics that that narrative existed at the expense of. it was a book about an "all-american" teenager even tho in this case "all-american" entailed overwhelming heteronormativity, misogyny, and conservative politics cleverly disguised as exercises in personal agency. even with the readings of tim having internalized homophobia i think. . . a lot of white fans fail to realize that that reading can't be divorced from misogyny in his case specifically. like it's fine to read him as gay and obv i'm happy that a mainstream character (well. i suppose that's debatable in the current comic landscape) like him was revealed to be gay, but i think that, again, bc of that general atmosphere of capturing the life of an everyday, "all-american" teen that dixon tries to pass off as normal, a lot of people treat tim's experience with girls in that book as some sort of run of the mill awkwardness and discomfort with a sex he doesn't and will never understand, when it's just. . . dixon being a misogynist who doesn't know how to write women without making them subservient to a man's narrative. regardless of whatever you ship that's something you have to acknowledge, and like, i don't even like tim's relationships with steph or ariana, they're very suffocating to read about, but again, that's bc they're misogynist. i honestly think it even does a disservice to steph and ariana to act like it's fine for tim to treat them like shit just bc he has internalized homophobia. like idk i just think there's better ways you could go about interpreting that he's gay (and this is not to say there aren't in fandom, obv the way people interpret his interactions with kon is there, but i'm just specifically referring to how people use his relationships with the girls in their reading of him being gay, and how there's a lack of acknowledgement that misogyny fuels it more than anything) and overall i wish people would be more cognizant about the way they analyze and interpret dixon's narrative bc of how much harm it perpetuated under the guise of "all-american" normalcy

[wowsoboring]

Deconstructing Baseless Harry Potter Arguments#2 (i) : Harmione Edition

Obviously I once again do not mean to target all Harmione shippers. I know quite a few who're very good human beings and tolerant and accepting above all. However these aren't. In this case, you might sense quite a bit of levelheadedness in the beginning, however you must not be fooled as it goes south and takes a nasty turn very quickly. Don't get your hopes up, this is some of the worst shit I've ever seen, especially the way in which it progresses through its course. Naturally, for this post I have picked my own style of writing which will match that of those redditors. Reddit is the perfect breeding ground for all these weird cults, honestly. I shall be resorting to a formal language and style of conversation, very much like a debater would to sound as pretentious as these do. These posts are found on the instagram handle toxicharmonyshippers who gather such toxic musings and sayings for Harmione shippers while respecting the ones that are nice.

1)

Oh yes, let's use words like 'vehemently' to sound smart, why not? Of course, this little tidbit of the highly stupendous post seems more or less civil at the start. They also have the common decency to say "some Romione shippers" rather than generalizing all of us. Very nice of you, how very saint like. Let's wait till they drop the act and show us their true colors. Harkening back to the argument, I have but one question for you, "where do you find these people?". Where's the proof? Who are these radical Romione shippers who worship Ron and dislike Hermione? I haven't seen any such shippers and I am surrounded by Romione shippers on tumblr, instagram and fan fiction sites as well and haven't met the people you speak of. Some point out her flaws, yes, but no one hates her or dislikes her that much. I have seen two or three Romione shippers across hundreds and thousands who're skeptical of Hermione's perfection. Skeptical. Not hating, disliking, or anything. Of course, unlike this person, I have evidence: find these pi charts for your referral (clickable): https://imgur.com/a/QfPnQbB

you can, through these, see the amount of Hermione bashing across Harry Potter fanfiction and you can see that even in Romione fanfiction there's more Ron bashing. Hermione-bashing is a non-issue. That's what it is. Regarding the "nagging" statement, where's the lie in that? "Annoying" is somewhat subjective, I personally don't find her annoying at all. Who are these people and how often do you find them? "Mary Sue" is only reserved for Movie!Hermione. I have only seen book fans call her that. No one has ever called Book!Hermione Mary Sue. The movie does paint her as a flawless, all-rounder who's also drop-dead gorgeous. Only things she's bad at are flying and divination, all of which she denounces as useless, even though flying is like biking for wizards, divination, sure, not that important. with a teacher like Trelawney, even I would denounce it as hokum.

2)

Remember what I said about waiting for them to show us their true colors, well here they are. Bask in the glory of their senseless arguments. Why, I am from reddit, heck I have 25 thousand karma points on there, I just left because it was too stupid for me but I can argue like them very well. And in this case I would like to say that these people are under the impression that Ron is just there in the story for the sake of existence. And he doesn't work hard. That argument is of course, wrong. Because Ron (in no particular order):

1) fights a troll when he's 11

2) is willing to sacrifice himself when he's 11

3) stands up for his friends

4) makes sure Harry feels like he belongs in the family

5) worries about Harry and rescues him from literal jail

6) stands up against Draco rather than by-standing and enabling his behavior

7) tries his level best to make sure Norbert the dragon is in safe hands and carries it out, albeit not in perfection

8) is with Harry every step of the way in his confronting the basilisk

9) sends Harry and Hermione long letters and calls them often to check up on them

10) stands up on a bitten leg to defend his best friend

11) always apologizes for any of his mistakes and is forgiving when others wrong him

12) works his way to join the Quidditch team unlike Draco who most certainly bought his way in

13) destroys at least 2 horcruxes

14) finds out how to defeat a horcrux

15) has an excellent enough memory and observation to notice Harry speaking parseltongue and also using it to his benefit which proves he's resourceful

now since I have 8 more such pictures to rebut and I do have a life, I will stop. These aren't even a twelfth of the remarkable things Ron has done though, so rest assured.

oh wait what did you say about him just existing and not working for anything? If I recall correctly, he did just as well as Harry did in school and didn't score well only in subjects he didn't care about. Which is true for most people except for Hermione who has an eidetic memory which not everyone has, understandably. Rote memorization is not the best way to get by in life, by the way.

what are the "so many reasons" behind why Harry is the best fit for Hermione? Kindly share so I can rebut those too, I'm rather free nowadays, my finals have been cancelled. You say there are so many reasons but don't even give one, yet you want me to take you seriously. I'm afraid that's impossible.

Romione shipper here, i don't dislike Hermione. I haven't met or seen many people in the book!romione fandom who dislike Hermione (except for Movie!Hermione). The question of someone you like ending up with someone you dislike doesn't particularly make sense. In Friends, Chandler ends up with Monica: now I'm not the biggest Monica fan (I don't hate her but I don't like her very much either) but they are my favorite couple because they make sense. It's about compatibility and character traits, not liking or disliking because that's just a set-up for a ghastly invitation for people to pair up hideousness. "Oh yeah, I like Harry and I also like Hagrid, they should be together. I mean it would be very very disgusting but that's my logic, now, you can't fight it. "- that's how you sound. Please read what you write. Your logic is just...abysmal. That's all I can say without breaking my resolve and berating you with colorful profanities.

3)

This is without the doubt, the easiest one to rebut. It's a delight to see such terrible arguments at my disposal. Come on, dear Harmione shippers, write something that makes me question my choices, not things that make me scoff in disbelief.

In this case, you're essentially providing us with theories. Unproved theories and speculation of what you believe because you'd say anything you like. Where's the proof of your theory, though? Where is that crazy radical Romione shipper who does this? Kindly show me these people. Oh yes, you wanna say we objectify Hermione and disrespect her and view her as a prize. This aches me, that you believe this. No one has ever insinuated this, ever, in the history of anything. What is this winner-loser theory? How do you round off Harry Potter to "an alpha-male ends up with lead-lady" trope and still say you're a fan of the series? Harry Potter doesn't fit in with that format. Ron, Hermione and Harry are co-heroes. Similar to how there's no main character in Friends or the Heroes of Olympus series or the Avengers. We're not living in the 80s anymore. Hermione will be a hero, invariably whether she ends up with Harry, Ron or no one. She ends up with Ron and that's it. Talking about her like this doesn't make you sound any better either. Now you're calling me a misogynist because I don't support the ship of two people who describe themselves as siblings. That's very mature of you. Well here's the thing- I'm not a misogynist. It's as simple as that. I believe that women are capable of anything and everything. I believe Hermione is an amazing person and she is a hero and a different person. I believe the series would be impossible without her. I believe she is no one's prize. There's no requirement of a prize. I just think, similar to canon and the truth and her romantic interest, she will have a great relationship with Ron. There's nothing complex or deep about it, really. No personal weird-thing, no psychological complex, no internalized misogyny. There's nothing deeper than what I said. I am not sexist. I am a feminist. I am all for women empowerment. I love women with the fabric of my being. I love Hermione. I think she's amazing. You only become sexist when you ship people with unstable power dynamics, a bully-victim relation or something of the sort. Neither Romione, nor Harmione are sexist. Heck if you paired Neville with Hermione you wouldn't be sexist. And I hate talking about this so much, I can't even tell you. This talk does make it sound like I treat Hermione like an object and I assure you I respect her and I normally won't talk like this unless someone just outright calls me sexist for something that's not sexist. And this is that situation.

4)

in the case of Romione, no one is too good for anyone. Both are amazing people who're heroes and have done amazing work. That's all I have to say. There's no league, they are romantically interested in each other. I have no intention on sounding lame, but, in love there is no league. As long as you're not putting in any effort and are extremely lazy and leech off of your partner, there is no such concept and no, Hermione is not "too good" for him. Unless of course you're talking about movie Hermione, who is too good for anyone.

5) (halftime!)

oh yes they try to pull this off and wonder why we hate them. Classic. This person likes to sound british, so let's switch up our language, yeah? At least then I won't be out of my element. Let me correct ya, Ron at his best is an amazing, loyal, friendly, brave, strategic hero. There you have it. Ron and 'git' can't be used in the same sentence. Now if you talk about Ron's achievements, I re-iterate you to point two. If it's too much work, here:

1) fights a troll when he's 11

2) is willing to sacrifice himself when he's 11

3) stands up for his friends

4) makes sure Harry feels like he belongs in the family

5) worries about Harry and rescues him from literal jail

6) stands up against Draco rather than by-standing and enabling his behavior

7) tries his level best to make sure Norbert the dragon is in safe hands and carries it out, albeit not in perfection

8) is with Harry every step of the way in his confronting the basilisk

9) sends Harry and Hermione long letters and calls them often to check up on them

10) stands up on a bitten leg to defend his best friend

11) always apologizes for any of his mistakes and is forgiving when others wrong him

12) works his way to join the Quidditch team unlike Draco who most certainly bought his way in

13) destroys at least 2 horcruxes

14) finds out how to defeat a horcrux

15) has an excellent enough memory and observation to notice Harry speaking parseltongue and also using it to his benefit which proves he's resourceful

hey, see, I like Ron and I took the time to copy-paste this instead of asking you to scroll up. And I'm a lot of bad things but I am not lazy. I stick to my deadlines like Hermione. I start my homework in library class and continue it during phys ed the day its given. And I am not exaggerating. Bloody hell, I wish I was. I'm the ceo of deadlines, mate, don't tempt me! So you can see that Ron is much more than just a "nice bloke". And being a "nice bloke" isn't a bad thing either. He's all the things I said: intuitive, strategic, helpful, loyal and on top of that he's also a nice person. Yes, I do see a bit of myself in Ron. I do. I see the insecure side. I waste my time hating myself and criticizing myself and undermining myself, telling me I'm no good. But Ron overcomes that. He inspires me to appreciate myself. Is that a bad thing? Are you going to shame me for having a low self-esteem? Do you want to worsen my low self-esteem and make me feel more like shit?

Now the person who replied to your comment saying, "he isn't a nice bloke most of time.", he is. He is not being nice twice in a span of 7 years. How often do you act rudely or with jealousy? Wasn't Harry yelling at everyone in caps lock in OOTP. Now I don't condemn him for that because he's a fucking hormonal teenager like me and that would make me a hypocrite, but by your logic why don't you condemn him? Or why not condemn Hermione for saying "I only date good Quidditch players" and shoving canaries at Ron's face because someone else kissed him, while she kept using Krum and Cormac to make him jealous. She wasn't being a nice girl, then, was she? Now, once again, i don't dislike her or hold that against her because guess what, mate, I'm a hormonal teenage girl who gets jealous most of the time and would probably react in a similar fashion in the spur of the moment (Not defending her actions here, just putting myself in her shoes.) In short, Ron is a nice bloke MOST OF THE TIME.

6)

It would be misogynistic to think that. The thing is, NO ONE DOES my dear friend! My dear daft friend. I have never heard anyone say that! why are you so hell-bent on portraying us as misogynists when no one ever says that? Stop assuming. Just stop. You are crossing a limit here, aren't you? Yes you are. You cannot say these sort of things. We never said that or believed that, no one ever said this to be a reason to ship Romione. God what is wrong with you? Literally, stop fucking ASSUMING god damn it! Do you want me to assume things about Harmione shippers? Do you want me to go there? Because I will go there! I will go there the moment you tell me to. Just challenge me.

Ron is not a perfect best boi , the reason why so many of us like him is that he's imperfect and tries to become better through the course of time. You are once again assuming and I am once again asking you to stop.

Ron might be an ordinary wizard. He might be poor, sure, but he's a pure-blood and won't face much if he chose not to fight. But he did. He fought. Now I identify with Ron's attitude a fair bit, but I am also likely to spend my day in a library without noticing. People aren't one dimensional. Stop trying to act like you're a psychologist, i know you're not. I don't even think Hermione's overbearing at all! You just insulted someone you're a big fan of. Jesus.

Both Hermione and Ron are strategic, jealous, passionate, feisty, argumentative, intellectual...

that's like 6 similarities. They aren't polar opposites in the slightest. Their differences are just: workaholic, not workaholic. Nerd, not a nerd. Like that's fucking it, man!

8)

being relaxed doesn't make you less independent or driven. A relaxed and levelheaded Hermione will think through things, not be impulsive, not panic etc. She doesn't need Ron. I don't understand your obsession with acting like we ever insinuated that. Then she doesn't need Harry either lol. Stop shipping her with Harry, then or like shut the fuck up. Being a bit relaxed won't stop her or anyone from hitting great strides. Just don't get relaxed to the point you're lazy and casual about everything, that's it.

9)

What do you mean? Ron is balanced. He does finish his work on time. And even if he does procrastinate, she could also help him not and be more driven. Of course, this is an open invitation for you to call me a sexist bitch because I said that she could help him and now you'll think her goal is to help him become better yada yada yada. Fuck off. Defeating the horcrux taught him enough. He respected her. He remembered about the elves when she didn't. He begged to be tortured instead of her. He wouldn't need it because school work and jobs are different and the same person might perceive those differently. Calmness and relaxation doesn't hinder your potential. Not caring and laziness does. You can't function if you work and are stressed 24/7 with zero breaks. Period.

10)

No i do not want (nor does anyone want) Hermione to become Ron. Being slightly calmer doesn't change up your personality. I'm sure many people dislike those sort of fanfics without a doubt. I hate OOC and I don't want Hermione to lose her intellect with Ron because that makes no sense. Ron himself is intellectual and loves arguing with her. They'd boost each other, more like it.

-------

okay thats it i am exhausted as fuck. thanks for reading, i appreciate it. notes and reblogs are appreciated, this takes work.

[gayregis]

right away sorry if this gets too ranty I've just been Thinking lately and i feel like twn is such a good example of like. this idea that Real and Good film and television can only be made by Hollywood i guess? like there's even this polish saying that roughly translates to "you praise the foreign and don't know your own" which gets made fun of a lot but also. it's very true imo. like i still wonder what could've been if actual good polish filmmakers were entrusted with making a new witcher (1/?

and it would've been such a good opportunity for like. one showcasing that there Can be good art and entertainment made locally and two some genuine cultural exchange. like i know its too big of an idea for Capitalism™ but if there was a well made polish-language show on international Netflix like. idk i feel like maybe that could spark some interest in like broadening peoples horizons and changing their views on what fantasy looks like etc and its just frustrating that there wasnt even a chance

i really agree. i have been dreaming recently about what my ideal "visual adaptation" of the witcher would look like, and what i've come up with essentially is something like the polish audiodramas set to 2D animation by fans of the witcher. subs, not dubs, i guess?

audiodramas

gilthoniel1173 on youtube has uploaded many select clips of the audiodramas, translated them and set them to pictures. amazing work and i highly recommend this.

i really value the majority of sapkowski's prose, though there are faults with the witcher, his prose really has a marvelous quality to it and i am trying to think of a way to keep this intact. something like the audiodramas in which there are narration may be the best way to go, with subtitles so that

animation

it's the sort of thing i think about like, hey, if i had netflix's budget (approx. $70 to $80 million, [dies]), how would i make the witcher adaptation?

disclaimer: i hesitated to @ artists because i feel like it sends the message that i am saying, "hey you, specifically, should do this idea for free, also btw, i only see you as a witcher fanartist and nothing more :)" this is not my intention, what i want to do here is just want to bring light to these artists in the community and the work they have done, both witcher-related and original work (and i hope that i am in no way defining them as 'only-witcher' artists). additionally, this is in no way suggesting that i don't want to involve any artists i did not mention or that i do not adore the work of other artists in the witcher fandom, these are just the immediate two i think of when i think of animating the witcher.

i imagine it in the style of @paticmak , @astrolunos , @johix because they have done just such gorgeous art of the witcher... <3 (i hope everyone reading knows of these artists already, but if you do not, please check out their work and support!)

paticmak's cherry vodka, an original animation which you should watch: [x]

paticmak's witcher fanart: [x]

astrolunos' animations, including geralt and ciri from sword of destiny and yennefer and ciri from blood of elves: [x]

astrolunos' witcher fanart: [x]

johix's jadýrko, an original interactive story which you should check out: [x] [x]

johix's art (some ship and ns/fw): [x]

specific witcher pieces from these artists that i think about:

[paticmak / "The witcher drawings redraws and sketches"]

[astrolunos / slavic-inspired outfits]

[astrolunos / "yen and ciri’s room, ellander"]

[johix / geralt and dandelion at beltane (ship)]

other major inspirations in my dreams of this:

studio ghibli movies (spirited away and howl's moving castle)

independent animators like felix colgrave (double king)

laika studio animations (kubo and the two strings)

gobelins studio (sundown)

embracing the roots, introducing diversity

my main point in this section is that i believe the polish & eastern european culture of the witcher is essential to it, at the same time i also value diversity and uplifting people of color. i do not believe that these two concepts are in conflict with one another! a discussion simply needs to be held, which is something that netflix did not do because it had few eastern european voices on the set, and kept the voices of color it did have down.

something netflix failed to do is acknowledge the witcher's cultural origins... at all. really, at all. in the writing, in the dialogue, in the set design, in the character and fashion design... and they had the opportunity to do this. this is massively disappointing and thoughtless.

my goal would be to bring polish & other eastern european writers who are fans of the witcher to work through the prose to tell the story. i would also like to have female and lgbt voices in this because the witcher has some elements that are...! disconcerting, let's just say. as we saw with lauren, having a woman in charge doesn't immediately make things not misogynist anymore, somehow she added to the misogyny of the witcher. but i think this is still a step in the right direction. additionally, this writing process would NOT look like writing fanfiction. it would really be going through and working with the artists and translating the prose, deciding what should be kept and what should be left out (some things like forest gramps should be left out, wouldn't you agree?).

new scenes could be added, but they would just have to be done for a reason. i believe the 2002 hexer did this somewhat-successfully in scenes such as this one, in which they develop relationships between characters just that little bit more and add to the pathos of the witcher (which is quite direct and does not "loiter" upon many things!)

i would also really value the voices of set designers, fashion historians, food historians, and cultural anthropologists who are from + study poland & eastern europe because i believe the history and culture should be integrated into the witcher and appreciated, demonstrated in a positive and celebratory light to the world, without doing so in a cultural appropriation-like manner (in which elements are just taken without any knowledge of where they are from and what context they hold). also, yes, the witcher is not a historical fantasy - but its setting is inspired by history and it would be rewarding to see a visual fantasy universe that is not based in english culture!

i think the witcher community is really vast and holds many opinions... this is both a good and bad thing, because "the witcher fandom" includes both people of color and like, white supremacists. i will say that i wouldn't want the latter working on the project, just saying. i would like to see designs of color for the cast of the witcher (i have done a few but hesitated to post them, lol) and sensitivity readings, NOT just diversity for views like netflix performed, but diversity that empowers, makes sense, and isn't "people of color are in this, they are either white-passing or just there to support the white characters." ... i also would like to think about how we approach diversity, as in, designs/casting of color should not be relegated to insignificant or evil characters, the good protagonists could be people of color. i would also like to think about and avoid problematic tropes such as when white characters in a media teach and "civilize" a young person of color, or when "monsters" or non-human characters are cast as people of color... i think people of color should be given roles in which they are in control, powerful, desirable, and good. we need to think about the message we send. in the end, my goal would be "genuine cultural exchange" as you said.

additionally: i think involving jewish and indigenous (broad terms, but i mean them to be broad) voices specifically in conversations about writing would be significant because sapkowski made some decisions in the witcher which can come off as offensive to these groups in particular (regarding the parts of the story about elves, dwarves, gnomes, dryads, and specific characters such as yennefer and regis).

music

honestly, not many thoughts here! can we really get any better than the soundtrack of the witcher 3? cdpr has many faults, but their music is not one of them in my opinion.

afterthoughts

i was displeased to learn that alik sakharov left twn because of not being appreciated and instead being fought on his writing, but i feel a project like this would actually value input like his instead of kicking him out and citing "creative differences"

what is really the most significant thing to me is good writing and ciri's relationship with her parents, because i believe these being taken away is one of the things which was most painful about netflix's "adaptation."

[ajora]

When work is slow (usually when I’m waiting for someone to get back to me), I pull out my phone and see what’s on discord sometimes. Most times the connection is so bad that it’s 1x at 0 bars. Or a big X next to the absence-of-bars. Sometimes it connects but I can’t respond because I’m old and can’t thumbtype quickly, and then conversation moves on so quickly that I can’t follow up. It’s a pain and makes me want to ramble about FFV, but I’m kinda afraid to because I ship something a lot of people hate. Maybe I’ll take it all to Dreamwidth, where maybe 2 active people still follow me, but at least I won’t stumble into someone frothing at the mouth at how dare I ship fictional characters in a way they don’t like.

Anyway, it was an interesting discussion in that my experience with FFV was... I played the original game with fan translations. Then I used the game to brush up on my Japanese. When the PSX localization came out and people ragged on me for my IRC ident (I still have Faris there and am not letting it go ever), I kinda dropped things because the PSX localization was terrible. And yes the GBA localization is great, but it’s still a localization. Jokes got added where there were none. The localization was written to appeal to a Western culture and sentiments. There’s nothing inherently wrong with that, but...

Eh, I’m gonna put the rest behind a cut because I don’t want fights and arguments over opinions, especially because I am not going to share yours because my familiarity with the Japanese text is not going to gel well with English-only audiences. Also, being a lifelong anthropology nerd (and being part native Mexican), I’m a bit horrified by how Western (let’s be real, primarily US/UK) fandom insists they know better than non-Western fandoms. Your imperialism is showing, y’all.

Lenna’s often treated as boring and/or annoying by Western fandoms who aren’t aware of her background, how she shifts between formal and informal based on her temper, and focus on Faris because of course, Faris is cool and awesome and a lot of people have internalized misogyny and like to latch onto not-like-other-girls types. Someone on discord said Lenna was too passive, which I find bewildering because all the trouble she usually gets into is because she’s impulsive and barges forth and falls into it face-first. I love that about her.

Goddamn but I want to write up a defense for Lenna and how she drives much of the story, and why she too defies Japanese gender norms as a character who was originally designed as a tomboy.

I get why people latch onto Faris and project their own identities on her. Which... is half her problem, honestly. She never says she’s a man, she acts like one because 海ぞくで、女じゃあバカにされるからな (”because among pirates, women are [treated as] stupid/fools”). Her entire performance as a man hinges on social expectations of how men are supposed to act. She actually does say she’s a woman, in Japanese ( 女だからってバカにすんなよ! {”Don’t treat me like a fool because I’m a woman!”}), but it gets lost in translation for something flippant. Additionally, she comes from a long tradition of both East Asian women crossdressing as men to access male privilege, the Takarazuka Review, please compare Lady Oscar to Amano!Faris, and Mary Read and Anne Bonny, both of whom crossdressed. This is not to dump on anyone who wants to claim that Faris is ___, but... she’s a Japanese character, made for Japanese audiences as a commentary on Japanese gender roles (and this is a whole trope in Japanese, Korean, and Chinese fiction), and Western sensibilities don’t really apply.

Also, gender noncomforming women, nonbinary women, and butch women exist. I should know. I’m butch with a very, very tenuous grasp of gender identity in general*. Really wish people wouldn’t throw us under a bus for their trans-but-still-binary rep :/

Also, there was talk about Gilgamesh today in that discord chat and I really wished I could have popped up and said he’s a loving parody of samurai ideals--his bios in the Japanese texts point out that he seems to come from a land that prizes bushido, and that colors his interactions with the gang.

I really do want to talk more about FFV, but fandom is so much more vicious than it used to be and I keep expecting to be attacked every time.

Oh well.

* I had fits when I was younger over... maybe I was a trans man? but then I sat and had many, many long discussions with myself and how patriarchal society (rural Mexican Catholicism + 1980s Texas) made me think being a woman was so terrible and tried to shoehorn me into a role that didn’t fit. And then I discovered the internet and “butch lesbian” seemed to fit me perfectly.

[itsclydebitches]

(1/2) Personally, I could never get into Geralt's relationship with Yennefer when I started reading the books. The first thing we learn about their relationship in The Last Wish, is that he broke up with her because he couldn't stand her possessiveness and the way she treated him. That was massive red flag on it's own already, but then I got to the scene in The Bounds of Reason where Geralt tells her that he doesn't care anymore if she forgives him for breaking up with her. And he's

I’ve finished up my work for the day so I’m going to break this down to pass the time lol. My journey with Yennefer of Vengerberg has basically been: 

Hearing about her prior to getting into Witcher stuff and being legitimately excited to meet this sexy, badass sorceress that everyone is head over heels for. 

Meeting her in The Witcher 3 and hating nearly every moment we spent together (with a few exceptions) because she is rude, self-centered, cares little for the boundaries of others (like frequently invading Geralt’s mind), and will destroy everyone and everything necessary to get what she wants. The fact that what she currently wants is Ciri’s safety doesn’t change how horrible her actions are. 

Getting reassurance that CDPR butchered her characterization and believing it because when has an adaptation not messed something up? God knows that’s happened to many of my faves. 

Reading The Last Wish for myself and going, “She’s not better here. She worse.” 

Coming to the Realization™ that Sapkowski, as an author very interested in undermining fantasy tropes, must be deconstructing the concept of True Love/Love At First Sight. After all, we’re not actually supposed to believe that a woman who treats Geralt like Yen does, a man who is canonically so lonely he’s picking up bards on the side of the road, and the both of them being bound together by highly suspect magic is supposed to be representative of real, healthy, destined love. These two are incredibly dysfunctional together and the point is for them not to stay as a couple, demonstrating that neither the characters nor the reader can bank on tired structures (like Hot Male Protagonist meeting Hot Female Protagonist) as evidence of “true love.” Sexual attraction and a djinn wish does not a healthy relationship make. 

The further, disappointing realization that this is not, in fact, the point Sapkowski is trying to make. Or if it somehow is he hasn’t done a good job of writing it. 

Struggling with other aspects of the series, notably how many of the women are written/treated. Finding it difficult to get into the main story-line. Coming to the conclusion that, like Doyle, I massively prefer Sapkowski’s style in a short-story format. 

Deciding to put the books on hold for a while and check out some other material. Maybe I’ll like Yen in the comics! 

I do not like Yen in the comics. Neither does Vesemir.

I post a few times about this dislike and marvel at how often events are twisted to paint Yen as a victim. One moment stands out regarding Yen dumping you in the lake in Witcher 3. When I expressed discomfort that she would do this to Geralt and then “jokingly” threaten to kill him next, someone basically asked me, “Well, did you pick the dialogue option where you’re an asshole to her?” It was asked with such confidence that for a moment I floundered. Had I chosen something that justified such treatment? Yet this is the exchange: 

“Yen... Told you already. I lost my memory.” 

“And I’ve lost my patience.”

(Side note: Yen is fully aware of how much Geralt despises portals.)

I begin to realize that a lot of the fandom truly believes that “Expressing a fact” equals “Being an asshole” to Yen. That any disagreement is automatically asshole behavior. Which is how Yen herself views the world. As fans have pointed out – myself included – she has a habit of rejecting responsibility and convincing others she’s the victim in most situations (with the one exception I can think of being her admitting that she destroyed the sacred site in Skellige), whether we’re talking about her condemning Geralt for sexualizing her (ignoring that she orchestrated that situation) or likewise condemning him for leaving her (ignoring that her behavior is what drove him away). I find myself re-emphasizing to others that my issue is not with flawed characters, but rather how Sapkowski’s story and the fandom insist that Yen isn’t actually flawed in these ways. 

Watching the Netflix adaptation and promising myself that I’m going to give Yen a clean slate. Let’s start over. I connect with her for the first few episodes and then everything falls apart once she starts blaming others for her own decisions, getting obsessed with a biological child in a world filled with adoptions, abandoning a woman to die because she dared to insult her, having to re-watch her taking over Geralt’s mind only this time with an orgy that’s super iffy in regards to consent… There’s a lot going on there. 

My friend – who knew I disliked a character but didn’t know who/why because I didn’t want to bias her ahead of time – slams into my texts talking about how much she hates Yen too. 

I make a few more posts expressing my personal discomfort with their relationship + how the fandom tends to erase her behavior for endless praise, rather than just acknowledging that they love the ship and Yen has done horrible things. I get a couple of anons (which I delete) about how I’m just a misogynistic – and now racist – asshole who can’t understand how badass she is.

I grapple with the fact that my primary ships are indeed Geralt/Jaskier and Geralt/Regis. Maybe I am drawn only to Hot White Guys and have internalized misogyny to work through? Then I remember the hundreds of other het/femslash ships I adore, the thousands of other badass women in media – including the Witcher – that I love and conclude that no, I just really don’t like relationships where parties are cruel/disrespectful/borderline abusive to one another. Hence why I criticized Netflix for taking an already wonderful relationship between Geralt and Jaskier and making Geralt insult him all the time/punch him. 

More and more I find myself uncomfortable with fans taking scenes where Yen verbally accosts someone, assaults them, or otherwise does them dirty and talk seriously about how they aspire to be her. I experience an intense need to remind everyone that being a badass and standing up for yourself does not mean treating people the way Yen frequently treats others. 

I read a lot about how many fans can’t get behind a Geralt/Triss pairing because of how Triss treated him in the past, even if she’s now improved. I completely agree. I wonder though why the same doesn’t seem to apply to Yen. I’m told I just need to read more of the books (which I’m honestly not eager to do) because she gets so much better later on. Don’t you care about character growth? When I respond, “Yes, but even if she does grow I’m not comfortable with that relationship because of all she’s done in the past – to say nothing of what she does in the future if we take the games as canon too.” That response does not go over well. So Triss’ past actions justify a reader’s discomfort with the relationship, but Yen’s past actions have to be forgiven? Witcher and RWBY are the only fandoms I’ve come across where women can commit truly heinous acts  and the response is “Yas queen!” rather than, “Huh, that’s a cool antagonist.” 

As I work through these differing opinions I’m constantly reminded that Yen is an excellent mother to Ciri and each time I wonder what bearing that has on how she treats Geralt. 

I’m likewise reminded of all the Big and Important sacrifices Yen has made for her family. Those deserve acknowledgment! But it doesn’t change her everyday behavior. Even if Yen stopped pulling shit like mind control, torture necromancy, and scaring people to the point where they assume she’ll rain fire down on them if they disagree, she just doesn’t extend basic kindness/respect on a day-to-day basis. Some people love that in a character. I personally don’t. I find Yen to be a vain person who puts her own self-comfort over others’ lives just as often as she deigns to save them. Dandelion is just going to have to wait until she’s had a bath before his curse is lifted. Margarita will have to do without her help because Yen doesn’t want to get her clothes dirty: 

“Mucking through ruins and sewers, hmm. I’d rather leave it to the expert.” 

“Meaning you’d rather waltz in once the hard work’s done.” 

I finally finish The Witcher 3 and find Yen tolerable from the boat onward, mostly because we don’t have to do much with her. 

I start the first Witcher game, wondering how I’ll find her in the first two installments. Frankly, at this point I’m not terribly optimistic. 

And every once in a blue moon, in a sea of post-Netflix Yen adoration, I see a post going, “Hey, ship what you ship but can we just acknowledge that this relationship isn’t the happy-go-lucky, super healthy, #goals pairing that most of the fandom wants to paint it as?” and I’m compelled to reblog :D

[komatsunana]

Heyy so I've been asking myself why exactly Reira gets so much hate. She's treated like she's a monster and the worst person and I'm really upset about it because I love her. I mean she is very flawed but so are all the other characters. What do you think?

I really like Reira too! She’s an interesting character.  I mean… there’s a big, very obvious reason for why people don’t like Reira (misogyny), but I want to put a quick disclaimer that…

Disclaimer: A 22 year old having a sexual relationship with a 15 year old is not a character “flaw” but actually a vile, immoral and evil act. An act that I think should be criminal no matter if it’s technically legal wherever the relationship is taking place.  Anyone who doesn’t like her character because of that… Understandable! Completely and totally and I don’t want to argue that with anyone.

However the narrative doesn’t treat their relationship with the gravity that it is (in addition to their being cultural differences) so that their relationship is depicted as socially wrong but not as though Reira is taking advantage of a child.  Therefore I think it is fair for readers such as myself and this Anonymous to separate her relationship with Shin from the rest of her character and enjoy the rest of her.  That is all.

But back on subject… Misogyny!! Internalized misogyny since a majority of the fanbase is female.  Tbh I didn’t get involved in the NANA fandom (or any fandom, really) for a long time because fandom was so saturated with hate for Reira… Hachi too, tbh, as well as Asami.  Even Nana was getting bashed around quite a bit, as I look up old metas and discourse lately.  The hate the women got was disproportionate to the hate the male characters got, even Takumi who definitely had the most people who hated him of the men but even then those people could see his value to the story…

While people who hated Reira (and Hachi!) just… didn’t. And constantly wanted them dead.  It’s very depressing, even now for me going through all those 10 year old posts.  It’s gotten like… SO much better in recent years - at least in the slice of fandom that I see on tumblr.  But even then, I agree… I find it very distressing that when I post something positive about Reira (and sometimes even Hachi or Asami) that I see someone tag it with “interesting… but I still fucking hate her).  Like my stomach literally turns whenever that happens and it happens too often tbh.

Moreover, Reira (& Asami) represents a character archetype that most shojo readers are primed to hate. I talk at length about it [here] though mostly about Asami, but it very much applies to Reira as well.  

For the most part, shojo manga and tbh media in general are very one-dimensional with their portrayal of rival girls in love triangles - usually as mean, bitches who just want to ruin the heroine’s relationship with the male object of her affections.  Occasionally they get to get redeemed by letting the heroine befriend her with her open, loving heart. It’s totally at odds with the way male rivals are portrayed as being still sympathetic - often the narrative even portrays the heroine as playing with the rival guy’s feelings and he deserves to be loved.  We just don’t see people shipping MC guys with rival ladies the way we do MC girls with rival boys is all I’m saying.

And… Reira goes completely against what we are primed to see in rival girls in love stories.  Nothing she does is done maliciously to steal Hachi or Nana’s men.  Even when convincing Takumi to sleep with her, it wasn’t with the intent of harming Hachi or even to “steal” him away but because of her own hurt and loneliness.  As you said she’s flawed just like the rest of the characters in the series.  It’s fascinating, she’s fascinating.  She’s one of my favorite characters.. Though I can say that about so many of the characters and not be lying ngl.

Tbh, while Hachi is probably my favorite character though and she’s my avatar and everything… I’d honestly say the NANA character I’m most like is Reira? (Well a mix of Reira, Mari & Nao… lol)  Her problems with loneliness, isolation, desire for human connection, and struggles to find value in herself outside her ability to sing are just so relatable to many people.

I will say that it’s also so exhausting that so often it feels like we can’t talk about female characters flaws, because that only gives the people that hate those female characters for existing space to talk about their hatred.  It’s hard to talk about Reira’s flaws accurately, because I must also talk about how I enjoy her character and defend her right to exist as a character in the same breath and pretty much every breath I have to say about her. It’s tiring in that way too. I hope you haven’t found anything I’ve said about Reira to be character hate or bashing, because I do enjoy her flaws and all.

Idk, this got a lot longer than I meant for it to (lol… when doesn’t it with me??) but idk… did I even answer your question?? It’s what I think though!!  

[aelinbitch-archive]

Aelin Content Drinking Game!

take one shot for each occurrence of:

photo of a golden retriever in an edit

dainty candle flame in an edit

wispy white-blonde hair in an edit

close up of blue eyes in an edit

pale, white, pretty, dead-eyed faceclaim

“scars?” what are “scars?”

she loves chocolate! content

she loves cake! content

she loves books! content

best friends with dorian content

best friends with chaol content

“original trio” content

talks like a sugar-high 13 y/o in incorrect quotes

don’t ship rowaelin? *jenna from 30 rock voice* i’m gonna be constructive here. you should kill yourself. 

“heir of ash and fire and she would bow to no one” quote

platonic aelin x lysandra content

wears exclusively paolo sebastion, zuhair murad, and elie saab s/s

castle by halsey is her theme song

she listens to the jonas brothers! she reads fan fiction! she’s a fan girl! modern au’s

quaint instagram au’s with heterosexual wine-mom pinterest aesthetic

“secret plans cool” attitude only acknowledgement of canon grittiness

meme-related headcanons about how she’d love pokemon go or would raid area 51

rowan sam and chaol are the ever-martyred Voices Of Reason putting up with her quirky stupidity

assassin what? enslaved who? depression when? trauma where? child abuse victim qué? alcoholism what? guilt fear rage and self-loathing who? sounds fake honestly

anti edition! take two shots for each occurrence of:

“celery” “alien” (THREE shots: alien assryver whiteporn galahideous)

total willful erasure of her identity as a child of a colonized country (THREE shots if it appears in a hot take about how she’s a colonizer, FOUR shots if it’s suggested that chaol and dorian “take back terrassen” from her)

“she should die”

“bitch”

“she loves herself too much” takes that willfully ignore her self loathing

“everyone kisses her ass” 

ongoing conflict with and criticism from sam, ansel, rolfe, dorian, nehemia, chaol, CHAOL, aedion, darrow, lorcan, and manon who? 

general description of her rise to power as causing mixed feelings of hope, uneasiness, and outrage in the realm when?

“glorified by the narrative” 

“not held accountable” 

“mary sue”

“too much page-time”

“overpowered”  

losing the majority of her powers in koa whom???

unironic reblog of chaolaena content sandwiched between hate-posts

unironic reblog of doraelin content sandwiched between hate-posts

implying that not only is rowan abusive, but she’s complicit in that and it’s a reason to hate her

“past trauma is just to make us feel sorry for her and has no impact on her character - we never see how it manifests. and on that note why is she so secretive and controlling for NO reason?? clearly just sjm trying to make her look cool”

didn’t have a problem with her or anything in tog until either qos when chaolaena sank or eos when malide sank

kaz brekker>>>

Condemning Aelin For Eleven Traits Dorian Havilliard Also Has: now in theaters near you!

“she’s unbearably whiny and should Just Do Something Already For the Love Of God” [OR ALTERNATIVELY] “she’s a bully and a tyrant and doesn’t deserve any power and we should #bringbackcelaena” (THREE shots if these two takes appear within two minutes of each other) 

complaining that she’s the main character

claiming moral superiority and woke points for not enjoying her personality 

everyone is suddenly a military strategist and economics professor with a PhD in medievalism and ready to tell you why aelin would be a terrible queen because of her lack of experience. aragorn fucking around in the woods for sixty years before becoming king in lotr is cool though 

dunyasha = aelin

sjm = aelin

daenerys = aelin and they’re both bad [OR ALTERNATIVELY] aelin is a dany ripoff and dany is better than her and that’s why aelin’s bad (THREE shots if these two takes appear within two minutes of each other)

“her plans are dumb and would never really work. side note i really admire six of crows for its realism”

narrative arc overcoming internalized misogyny where?  

#chaolwestfalldefensesquad

“aelin’s character specifically is autonomous and personally responsible for everything i don’t like about the series, but dorian chaol manon and elide are victims of bad writing and deserved better”

chaorian 

blitz round - bizarre combo of both edition! take three shots for each occurrence of:

fandom-mom brainrot

“the manorian goggles stay ON when we analyze” 

manon>aelin because which one of them was smart enough to fuck dorian? checkmate! 

gay people don’t exist. 14 year old malide shippers are ruining my online experience. everyone stop with the hate :( 

white!manon. straight!manon. 

aelin didn’t let dorian be in charge in eos. TYRANT!!!! HE WAS SIDELINED AND ITS AELIN’S FAULT!!!!! 

“i read tog for the heterosexual side characters :)”

“unpopular opinion: aelin is overrated!”

SJM please let me suck your dick 

attracted to chaol and dorian instead of shipping them with each other

“honestly aelin was so mean to [insert male character] :(((( why does no one ever call her out for that :((((”

[onionjulius]

conniesnielsen replied to your post “conniesnielsen replied to your post: [[MO (So …...”

1] ok this will get deep bc honestly i'm way too childish over this but i can't STAND when that man is paired off with someone other than her..i genuinely have very confusing relationship with ned/cat in a sense that i love them but i also don't think he deserves her, she's too good for him... i mean we were told from her first chapter she loves him, but he never thinks he loves her (as long as i can remember)

2] he does call her “my love” but explicitly it's not stated otherwise. we were told he loved robert, his kids, and lyanna but not his wife. cat thinks “she had come to love her husband with all her heart” you know who ned thinks he loved with all his heart? his sister. and it kinda always rubbed me off the wrong way, yk? like i think he /did/ love her (from the way he thought of her) but not the way SHE did... perhaps this is mostly grrm's fault, his male perspective

3] there's also something else that irks me: people (and those are in the cat fandom usually) who say look she took x and y for him,she loves him...because we are again measuring a woman's love and trust and loyalty based on how much heartache she takes from a man...SO back to the point i was trying to make: cat is in a way a better parent and her children still think of their father more, she cared for her sister but her sister didn't seem to be on the same level,

4] and then there's ned, she gave him everything and he lay heartbreak at her feet over and over for fifteen years (i don't care if he knew or not because she was willing to talk when she asked him and what did he do? he scared her and then she internalized the issue) and the fandom thinks HE is the one who is the victim here*? that HE deserved better? the audacity. bc i don't think it's just “love from an arranged marriage can’t be genuine” it's mostly because it's HER

5] *you know the disgusting trope when a man says his wife trapped him and he thinks she's a bitch? i think that's how the fandom views him. as a poor guy who was trapped and they want him to be free.. what's worse they don't even realize they're directing their hate towards cat because of misogyny, a huge chunk of them thinks it's okay because They Like So Many Other Female Characters!!1!

6] imo she didn't get ENOUGH love and the fandom tries to strip the every bit she /did/ get away from her...whether it's by pairing her husband with someone else or by giving her children a “better mother”. i am always annoyed at them but it really hurts too...i often just browse through ao3 and think to myself “is that really how they view her? is that all she is?” i sad

Girl, Imma put everything you said in a post and nail it to the doors of the church. I have felt EVERYTHING you said here, I even have a “Save Catelyn Tully from House Stark” tag for exactly this feeling. NOBODY FUCKING APPRECIATES HER. I guess except her dad and uncle but it was down hill from there. This is my childish inner feelsbucket talking, but like sometimes? Fuck House Stark. If she’s not good enough for them give her back to me because I’D sure appreciate her :(

Theoretically there’s probably a way to ship Ned with other people in a not shitty way, but that way is certainly not making its way into fic or much discourse. So I’m theoretically okay with it, but I sure as hell am not seeking it out, burned too many times. You’re right, too many people see her as his ball and chain, and I’ve had it. I think her whole story is so fucking sad, still I ship her and Ned because she says she loves him and if it makes her happy then I want that for her. But I am not the generous and emotionally open multi-shipper I’d like to be because this fandom is trash to her. She is defined in GRRM’s view by her motherhood and wifehood and fandom shits aaaall over those very things while fapping over Ned for being a basically decent dad and husband. 

So I cultivate my own little corner, because I have known how it is for a long time and I wasted too long trying to reason with, rage at and pray for this fandom. Now I just want to enjoy the things I enjoy the way I see them and not let anyone else get into my head. Fandom is supposed to be fun, and its a painful enough canon as it is without shitty fans making it worse.

I worked my way thru my conflict about Cat/Ned, I suspect you will in time in a way that works for you. But I feel you, rest assured.

[kane-and-griffin]

Hey! So I know that you're the most famous person of the kabby fandom (and I love you btw) so there's something I need to tell you. I've seen a lot of people from the kabby fandom (which I am a part of it) getting mad whenever someone on twitter doesn't like Kane or Abby, saying that it's because they are ageist which I think is really annoying (like they start going off on them almost every time ) 1/2

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and if they don’t like a character it’s not necessarily bc they’re ageist. I think that this is the reason a lot of people don’t like us so (if you agree with me ofc) could you maybe pass the word? I love you btw you’re an amazing person and your ff are the best 😘 2/2             

Okay.  So.  

There’s a lot to unpack here.

I have a lot of thoughts, some of which may notbe the thoughts you were hoping that I would have.  I do want to thank you for your very sweet words, but I also want to address a few things about this askI find extremely frustrating, not with the intent of making you feel bad butbecause I think there are some big conversations here worth having in a broadercontext.

First and foremost, and this is something most ofyou have heard me reiterate many times, I am a strong advocate of peopleaddressing their problems with each other directly.  If you saw someone on Twitter accuse someoneof being ageist and you disagree, that’s fair to say!  Social media is a free and open exchange ofideas.  Also, if you’re a member of theKabby fandom, and you witness another member of the Kabby fandom engaging inbad internet behavior, call them out!  It’salways better for communities to go collect their own people when they crossthe line rather than expecting others to do it. If your fellow fan tweets something mean, call it out.  We all need to do our part to shut that stuffdown and make the fandom a better place. But the right forum for that is to bring it up with the person whoactually said or did the thing you’re upset about, and not to bring it to acompletely unrelated party.

Which brings me to my second point: I’m extremelyuncomfortable being addressed as though I speak for the entirety of the Kabbyfandom.  I don’t.  No one person does.  Fandoms are communities made of individualpeople who have shared interests, but there’s no hierarchy. I don’t want to bethe Bad Fandom Behavior Police. This is especially frustrating when I getasks where one member of the fandom comes to Kabby Mom about something anothermember of the fandom did … especially when it’s something I wasn’t part ofand didn’t witness.  

And that, my dear Anon, is the big problem that I’mhaving with this request.  I don’t haveany idea what incident you’re referring to, what was said, by whom, to whom, orwhat the context was.  You’re asking meto agree with you that somebody was out of line, and that, quote, “that’s whypeople don’t like us.”  But I can’t grantthat premise without knowing what you’re talking about.  

(Also, by the way, I would urge you to let go ofspending too much time caring about whether other fandoms like us.  I can assure you, most of them honestly probablyaren’t thinking about us that much.)  

If I understand the situation correctly, and ifwe’re referring to a real incident and not a hypothetical, you’re saying that PersonA tweeted something negative about Kabby and Person B said “that’s ageist.”  You, Anon, believe that Person A was not being ageist, that Person B overreacted,and that B is the one whose behavior is the problem.  And that’s certainly one possibility.  But the other possibility is that maybePerson A was being ageist but neither Person A nor you have recognizedit.

And I cannot make that determination for you,because you haven’t told me anything concrete, and I wasn’t there.

I am also a thirty-six-year-old woman in a fandomfull of teenagers and if you are not thirty-six then it is entirely possiblethat you and I are seeing the concept of ageism from two very different andincompatible points of view in the first place.

That being said, if you want my opinion, here is my opinion.

First, there really is no excuse for being a jerk onthe internet, no matter what you disagree about.  There will always be people who love thingsyou hate and hate things you love and ship things you find incomprehensible andreject headcanons you treat as gospel, because we all fandom in our ownways.  So if you’re asking me, shouldKabby shippers get a pass on being jerks to non-Kabby shippers just because I,personally, ship Kabby, my answer to that is, “of course not, that is insane.”  Disagreement and discussion are always okay;Twitter is a public forum, and if someone voices an opinion, you get to haveyour own opinion about it.  But being ajerk is never okay.  

In general, I am a strong proponent of stayingin your lane. I’m a pretty ruthless curator of my Twitter and Tumblr feeds, soI don’t follow anyone who talks shit about Kane or Abby (I have a one-strikeblock policy with this), and I recommend this approach to everyone.  Make your social media feed your happy place.

Now, there are lots of people in the fandom who don’tlike, or simply don’t care for, Kane and/or Abby.  There are probably plenty of reasons forthis, and not, not every single one of these reasons is inherently ageist. HOWEVER!The fact that you did not see the comment in question as being ageist does not actually mean it was not ageistor that the person who called them out was wrong for doing so.  

Ageism is hardwired into the very fabric of oursociety – like misogny and heterosexism and racism – and just like with thoseother -isms, most of the time when we serenely think that we are guiltless ofit, we are lying to ourselves. And that goes for internalized prejudices,too.  This stuff is ingrained in us from birth. In general, the sameway I am inherently suspicious of white people saying “I AM ZERO PERCENTRACIST” and men saying “I AM THE MOST FEMINIST MAN TO EVER MAN”, I tend to takewith a grain of salt the words of people much younger than me talking about ageism in this fandom because I actually see it a lot.

And fam, we need to talk about the differencebetween fandom discourse about Abby and fandom discourse about Kane.

Now, your mileage may vary, but I will say thatin my personal experience, when I stumble upon someone who does like Abby but doesn’t likeKane, I agree that it frequently has its roots in reasons which are notinherently, automatically ageist.  Ittends to be rooted rather clearly in plot. More often than not, they’re still tripping up over something he did in aprevious season that they can’t get past. (We should probably save the conversation about our fandom’s selectiveforgiveness problem for another time.)  Theycan’t get past the Culling, or arresting/shocklashing/attempting to float Abby,or being too hard on Bellamy, or losing the election to Pike by choosing toally with the Grounders, or floating Aurora or Jake, or just in general being amega-dick in the pilot.  And that’sfine!  I mean I feel like you’re missingout by giving his four-season character development arc short shrift andignoring the way all the terrible things he’s done in the past shaped him intoa better person once he confronted them, but whatever!  The point is that, you’re right, thatreasoning is not, in and of itself, inherently ageist.  That’s not to say that there aren’t any fanswho straight-up just don’t like him because they think old guys are boring, forthe most part, when I see people dislike Kane, it’s a reaction to something that he did.

But we actually do need to talk about ageism andAbby in this fandom.  Because it is a big fucking problem. 

The problem with ageism and Abby is that moreoften than not, from what I’ve seen, when people dislike Abby, it’s a reactionto who and what she is.  It is absolutely impossible to separate itfrom internalized misogyny and the way older women are systematically devaluedby our culture in ways that sometimes we can’t even see as ageist, because they’rejust hardwired into us. 

Sure, every once in awhile you get an easy one,and someone whines on Twitter about “gross old person sex,” and then you canpoint to it very clearly, and nobody will dispute that we’re talking aboutageism here.  But it’s often so muchmurkier than that.  Ageism can look likea lot of different things, many of which you’ll believe are completelyunrelated.

Ageism can look like fans who show up in thecomments of the writers’ room Twitter and Instagram when they post pictures ofthe adults to say “nobody cares about them, post [whoever I personally stan themost] instead.”

Ageism can look like gifset after gifset featuring “leading ladies of The 100″ where they include Fox and Maya and Charlotte, but not Abby (who has second billing in the cast after Clarke).

Ageism can look like a blanket refusal, under inany situation where Clarke and Abby are at odds, to grant that Abby might havea point, even when the narrative is clearlytelling us that Clarke is the character at fault. The tendency within thisfandom for young girls who closely identify with Clarke to graft their own momfrustrations onto Abby is virtually never-ending, and it can be hard to sift throughthe the complex intersection of ageism and misogyny that makes it impossiblefor them not to see mothers as human beings who are interesting, who are wise,who are right, who know things their children do not, who are sexual, who areallowed to make mistakes, who deserve screen time and plot agency, who are justas vital to the story as the teenagers.

Ageism can look like giving Clarke sole creditfor establishing peace with the Grounders through Lexa, when in fact it wasKane who made the first contact with her and got her to offer the treaty in thefirst place, and it was Abby turning Lincoln from a Reaper back into himselfagain that cemented the alliance.

Ageism can look like shutting down Kabby shippersgleefully enjoying headcanons about bunker baby theory because Abby is “too oldto have a baby” – a misconception that has permeated so deeply into our culturethat we have all internalized the belief that no woman is supposed to have ababy over the age of 35 as though it is inarguable scientific fact, even thoughit may interest you to know thatis a myth.  (“What? How did I notknow that that was a myth?” BECAUSE OUR ENTIRE SOCIETY IS AGEIST TOWARDS WOMENAND THE STUDY THAT GAVE US 35 AS THE MAGIC STOP NUMBER IS FROM LIKE THE 1700’S,THAT’S HOW FEW FUCKS THE MEDICAL COMMUNITY GIVES ABOUT UP-TO-DATE RESEARCH ON THEHEALTH OF OLDER WOMEN)

Ageism can look like a fan who ships all thenon-canon ships … except Doctor Mechanic, because it’s “gross” and “Abby isbasically her mom.”  The inherentdesexualization of age-difference relationships is often rooted in ageism.  You don’t have to ship it!  But if you insist that no one should ship it, then there may be some ageism in the rootsof your ship-shaming.

My point here, dear Anon, is that if you arelooking for someone to tell you, “you’re right, Kabby shippers overreact aboutageism in this fandom,” you are barking up the wrong tree, because from where Istand, as a woman far closer to Abby’s age than Clarke’s, I’m going to venturethat we don’t talk about ageism enough.  And like many -isms in our society, if itdoesn’t appear to you to be that big a problem, that may be because it doesn’tapply to you.  (Yet.)

Now, to be clear – before someone sends me anangry rebuttal to this – not in a million years am I saying that it makes you inherently ageist if you don’t shipKabby.  Just like it doesn’t make you inherentlyhomophobic if you don’t like Lexa or inherently racist if you don’t like Bellamy or inherentlymisogynist if you don’t like Clarke.  Butall squares are rectangles, even if not all rectangles are squares.  By which I mean that, contained within thegroup of people who don’t ship Kabby, there is a lot of ageism, just as,contained within the group of people who hate Bellamy, there’s a lot ofproblematic racial shit, and it means we need to have a clearer understandingof where those lines are so that we recognize the ugly stuff when it shows upon our timeline and call it out when we see it.

[thestuckylibrary]

Hi! As an avid fic reader, there is something that has always bothered me about a lot of fan-fiction I have read in the Stucky fandom or the marvel fandom in general. There is almost always a level of casual sexism against the female characters, for example, in many fics the female characters are referred to as "girls" despite being grown fucking women also is it necessary to talk about how beautiful Natasha or Peggy are in every single fic? Aren't we reducing them to their beauty?

This is actually an incredibly complicated issue. Yes, there definitely is a fair amount of casual sexism in stucky fanfic and in fanfic in general. But on the other hand, compared to general fiction and the world at large, there is significantly less sexism. I’d also point out that the majority of transformative fandom is female identifying, queer, or both, this makes fanfics relationship with sexism a lot more complicated. Internalized misogyny is incredibly hard to sort out and be aware of, because it’s your own internal monologue and in the case of many fanfic authors, your own internal monologue as a woman and (in most cases) a feminist. 

The specific examples you pulled are tricky ones, cause on one hand, yeah theres certainly an element of sexism in there, but on the other hand there also isn’t necessarily a bad wicked thing. In most stucky fics, the narration is third person pov through either steve or bucky, and in the case of two men born in the 1910′s calling grown women girls would absolutely be a part of their vernacular. It’s absolutely sexist, but I’d argue that it’s a strongly internalized attitude and language pattern both of them would absolutely have problems recognizing and or getting rid of. So even if it’s not a carefully thought out choice from the author, it serves as interesting characterization. Also since the majority of fic authors are women, the relationship with using girls isn’t as simple, for one thing it is a part of common english to use women and girls interchangeably and it’s not something that’s closely examined by all women all the time. Also, I think theres as aspect of it’s usage that is reclaiming it in a way. I mean girls isn’t a slur by any means but it’s not free of negative meaning, and by referring to wonderful characters as girls it in some ways seeks to remove those negative connotations- by presenting to the reader a group of people who the reader admires and saying some of them are girls and thats great, it does something meaningful for a woman reading. Using the word girl/s isn’t always something bad, especially when women are using it.

As for calling them beautiful all the time, I’d argue that 9/10 times theres absolutely nothing inherently sexist about mentioning their beauty. I mean it is objectively true, mcu’s female characters are beautiful. Now the reason behind all of them being gorgeous is pretty sinister, hollywood has an insanely toxic and sexist beauty standard and the fact that female characters in movies have to be beautiful in the same way is a whole other barrel of fish and we’re talking about fanfic, we’re dealing with characters who have a appearance and personality not 100% set by the author of a fic. Honestly, I’ve read thousands of Stucky fics and I think I’ve read a handful where women were actively reduced to their beauty. I mean when was the last time you read a novel by a cishet man? It’s absolutely horrifying, the way they treat women is disgusting, and fic is so much better. 

Most of the time in fic, beauty is just one aspect of their character, for example Peggy’s strength and steely determination usually follow any mention of her beauty and Natasha’s dry humour and keen intelligence usually follow any mention of hers. On the other hand yeah, you get a lot of Bucky dancing with a beautiful nameless woman who only appears as an object of desire and jealousy and yeah, thats a problem. But I don’t think it’s a bad thing at all to mention a woman’s beauty provided shes being not shown as important only because she’s beautiful. 

I’d also argue that the vast majority of sexism in fanfic isn’t calling female characters girls or referring to their beauty, its demonizing or ignoring female characters who are “in the way” of a m/m ship. I see this happen a LOT with Sharon in particular, but also Peggy and Natasha. You don’t see the female character who is canonically with one half of a m/m ship is a controlling, violently jealous, homophobic monster plotline often anymore, but it does still come up. More common is the female character who is canonically with one half of a m/m ship is a endlessly pure, patient, supportive and unconditionally understanding prop who exists only to step graciously out of the way of the m/m pairing. I see that all the damn time and it bothers me. 

Female characters tend to not be as developed in canon and because of that often also remain underdeveloped in fanfic and also tend in both canon and fic to be there only to support the male characters not existing outside that context. That or the fact that f/f ships are incredibly neglected. I mean theres like one f/f fic for every like seven m/m fics. Part of that is the fact that there are so many less women than men in fiction. Part of that is on us for just not writing wlw and favouring mlm or m/f ships. I have really complicated feelings about this as a queer woman, I mean I‘m running a ship blog about two men. I could be putting my time into natsharon, cartinelli or claire temple/misty knight, but I’m here instead. I worked through lots of internalized homophobia, biphobia, transphobia and aphobia while reading m/m fics, not f/f and I spend so much more time and energy on m/m ships. I mean here I am, a wlw and here I am investing almost all my leisure time on men. I mean I love it in this fandom and it’s absolutely my choice to be here but part of me wonders what it would be like if I had gone through that process with a f/f ship instead and what it would be like to invest this time on women. I wonder what it would be like to be in mcu fandom if our source material treated it’s female characters better and had more of them.

You also see barely any not white, disabled, unattractive or poor women in fic, but once again part of that is a distinct lack of diversity within the source material. But you know what, I do not see many fics with Helen Cho or Claire Temple in them at all, let alone as developed characters.

Anyways sexism in fandom is a lot more complicated than it initially appears. Nothing is ideologically pure, even fanfic, but due to the nature of fanfic being written by people who you can easily contact in the sometimes caustic forum of tumblr I think it’s incredibly important to be gentle with authors who violate what you individually see as correct. Much of tumblr’s atmosphere of callout culture has a very black and white view of what justice is and what is correct, when in reality theres a lot of layers to this, it’s not a simple black and white dichotomy. People are at different places in their journeys, theres a lot of reasons why authors write things the way they do that you might not be aware of, broad sweeping statements saying x is always bad are a real dicey area to step into (and yes, I see the irony in saying that)

So while fandom certainly needs to take a closer look at our own internalized misogyny (and racism and ableism and audism and so on), I think theres much more to be gained from larger conversations, self reflection and making an active effort to be kinder to women than there is from things like carefully abstaining from words like girls.