#hmm I wonder what might have happened in 2020 that prevented young people from seeing each other irl hmmmmmm

[sarasade]

I "love" this discussion around zoomers' media preferences. It's just:

"Oh no, zoomers don't want to see sex on screen! Why is this generation so anti-sex and puritanical! They only want to watch Heartstopper, these tenderqueers and puriteens! Why aren't the young people fucking and reproducing more!"

But also

"Why is Young Adult fiction full of depravity! Sarah J. Maas and Colleen Hoover are ruining art with their stupid sexy tropes!! It's not healthy that BookTok teen girls are so obsessed with "spice"! Maybe these people should read some real books! These yaoi fujoshi gooners are not beating the porn addiction allegations."

Yeah, it's pretty hard to take this seriously guys.

[severalspoons]

Eye of Michael Discord Update

My friends continue to be hilarious.

Tumblr is kinda like having a diary except you can get validation. -- @pinkskyredclouds

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I feel bad for Cloud. He's dealt with all kinds of crazy shit. Monsters. Horrible massages. An evil entity. Cross-dressing. -- @pinkskyredclouds

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Solution to zombie nightmares: Have them salute and watch their arms fall off. -- Our Legato

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Hey! It's not a Trigun tale if someone isn't depressed. -- @mrhyde786

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They like to show their love by chopping their close loved ones arms off. – Dagdaddy, explaining how Knives and Darth Vader are similar 

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Freud was right about one thing, though - having parents will fuck you up somehow. -- @ragtagbunchofmisfitism

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The entire plot of Trigun could have been prevented with good parenting, the end -- @ragtagbunchofmisfitism

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he's a sweet person.. but he's the harbinger of black holes. -- Our Vash’s description of Vash

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I need a hero / I’m holding out for a heeeero til the morning liiiiight / He’s goootta be strong and he’s goootta be fast/ And he’s gotta be ready for killing tiiime! -- Vaki

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Why when I was a kid, everyone was prepared for everything! Typhoons, earthquakes, and customers who go to a store to buy what it sells! –Vaki

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I’m not supposed to do what’s expected. --Vaki

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Me: when Vash acts like an idiot, he's largely just pretending to be anime Rem.

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@mrhyde786: Everything’s going to hell for everyone in Eden.

@vash-crybaby-stampede​: ::hands you a basket:: Something to put Hell into.

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Grape medicine tastes like death and the tears of small children. -- @pinkskyredclouds​

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She’s cheer captain and the ghost of Wolfwood’s on the bleachers... -Me

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Potatoe tomato. -- Our Vash

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Two heads are better than cooked well done. -- Our Milly, screwing up a proverb

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Wish I knew what Knives said in the vid. But knowing him, it’s either about Vash or vermin. The big Vs. -- Dagaddy

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@mrhyde786: Okay. Thank goodness. So Actual Knives is off elsewhere, and Vash is cuddling a corpse.

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Our Legato: (re: a plot point in an old rp where Knives’ body is brought in) Hey kids wanna see a dead body?

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Not a fanfic without Vash and donuts. -- Vaki

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Dear Brothering intensifies. -- Vaki

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Me: Knives did COVID.

Dagdaddy: Knives caused 2020

@mrhyde786: Damn it Knives.

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like ... maybe if having kids was seen as something like a prize... maybe people would work harder to treat them better??? -- @vash-crybaby-stampede​

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a brain divided against itself can't stand. –me

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Dagdaddy, on having cancer: “The ticket to your future is always blank, and as for me, well, it’s complicated.”

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“I missed something while away. Knowing you all, it was meaningless.” -- Holiday Knives (Dagdaddy)

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:briefly wonders if eating garbage would technically be a form of cannibalism in Knives' eyes. He dismisses the ludicrous thought.: -- The Superior Legato Bluesummers

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“Hey there, Vash. You can stop hiding behind this other Knives’ ego.” --Holiday Knives (Dagdaddy)

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@pinkskyredclouds: I heard that he wasn't actually an absent parent by choice, he died when Cloud was young, but i’m not sure how canon that is Me: hmm....that would be sad. was he supposed to be shinra or something? @pinkskyredclouds: We don't know. That's the thing he could've literally been anyone. Involved with Shinra? Possibly Me: It could have even been... ::dramatic pause:: ...your mom.

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“Doubt isn’t a sin,” Vash said, “It’s just a part of being human.” Nick had said that during one of their philosophical debates, and it stuck with him. -- Me

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Me: (Talking about Vash’s beliefs) ...But it's so different in manga vs. anime. Anime he clings to them, makes them his identity, and tries to force them on everyone else. He's like the Christian people bothering you on the sidewalk. "do you have a minute for Jesus?" no, f*** off

Dagdaddy: Knives: Do you have time to die?

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@vash-crybaby-stampede: you don't get a toy with your Kinder eggs? not even on the side?

Me: nah, someone might choke and their parents might sue

Dagdaddy at 2:16 PM: Lmao They made it illegal because you couldn’t get a gun in one

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I'm teaching you fuckers how to english and write a paper wether you like it or not lmao -- @vash-crybaby-stampede​, telling me what I should say to my group members for a class project === @vash-crybaby-stampede​: whose wedding? Dagdaddy: Uhhh tbh might happen to my mom and her bf Me: lol "happen to.” "What happened? I feel like I was hit by a truck." "A wedding happened to us, baby." "Oh. I guess we're married now" === Dog poop is a blessing in disguise. You can save it and throw it at your enemies to assert your dominance. -- Dagdaddy ===

What if you take dog poop, a butter knife, spread it on toast, layer it under a thick coat of Nutella, and feed it to your worst enemy to assert your dominance? -- Dagdaddy === "I don't snore, Broomhead." He mumbled out from over his cigarette. The biggest lie in the history of lies. Everyone snores. -- @vash-crybaby-stampede​‘s Wolfwood

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@ragtagbunchofmisfitism: and I didn't quite sit on it. more like, i was reaching across my bed and my leg was laying across the keyboard

Me: like a cat

@ragtagbunchofmisfitism : I DON'T HAVE CATS FOR LEGS OKAY! STOP TRYING TO SPREAD A SCURRILOUS RUMORS

Me: BUT YOU WOULD LOOK SO MUCH BETTER WITH CATS FOR LEGS (EVERYONE WOULD)

[tortoisesshells]

insomnia is terrible. here’s thoughts on my recent kdrama binge, under the cut:

Signal (2016): It’s been over a month and I can confidently say I hated the last ~45minutes because they feel like the narrative equivalent of a long loading screen for a program you didn’t mean to boot up in the first place - it’s not the worst ending for a show I’ve ever seen (see Black, down below), but it did both feel like a cop-out and ... hmm. like my faith in the characters was seriously misplaced. Which is a shame! Cop-show/copaganda aside, both the overarching plot (the disappearance of Detective Lee Jae Han fifteen years ago)/plot preoccupations (political corruption, socio-economic stratification and the complicity of the police in reinforcing class barriers/defending the wealthy and powerful at the cost of the poor and powerless) and the individual mysteries that the characters past and present struggle to resolve were interesting and satisfactorily dealt with; the magic plot device of a radio that allowed Lieutenant Park Hae Young in 2015 to communicate with Lee Jae Han in the past (1989-2000) was ultimately far more compelling than it had any right to be. It feels like a long meditation on grief, at times, and how grief both rots and compels. I ugly cried so hard into my cat she sought revenge by dropping a spider in my bed, and I’m still not sure if that’s a recommendation. 

Crash Landing on You (2020): as unlikely and ideologically irresponsible (South Korean heiress accidentally ends up in a North Korean village via paragliding accident, winds up in the middle of convoluted political plots as often as she does small-town hijinx, in no small part because she totally isn’t in love with the emotionally-shut-down-but-kind-Army-Captain; alas, those troubles (but! some of her new friends, too!) follow her when she returns to South Korea and her awful family) as it was ultimately charming. This was billed to me as “a fun romantic comedy” to take my mind off the mindfuck of Signal’s ending, which might have been a mislabeling, considering politics, that the main relationship hinges in small part on the male lead inadvertently preventing the female lead from killing herself seven years before the narrative picks up, and there was no way, short of reunification of North and South, that things would end totally happily for the characters. Serotonin is stored in the abundant found family/true companions scenes, but we can’t have nice things for long. Watch with tissues.

Kingdom (2019-): I spent a significant chunk of this dry-heaving, or biting my nails, or hiding under my quilt. Quality zombie drama that also made me cry my own tears, tightly written, but I’m too squeamish and too worn out by 2020 to enjoy this fully.

Mystic Pop Up Bar (2020): sometimes, a family is a bad-tempered 500 year-old cursed pop-up bar owner, her pun- and grandpa-sweater-loving manager with a long and mysterious supernatural past, their turbo-empath busboy who can’t touch normal people without them spilling their deepest secrets, and the single braincell they have to share between them as they struggle to solve ordinary human’s grudges to satisfy the terms of the curse on the owner. For all that the action is pretty light-hearted, the characters’ backstories are weighted down with trauma, abandonment, betrayal and suicide; the grudges of the episode also deal with heavy stuff (workplace sexual harassment, infertility, the cycle of poverty, to name a few). But this is also a show where there’s a field-day in the afterlife for the dead to compete at ridiculous tasks to win the privilege of appearing to their descendants with the winning lottery numbers, the gods accidentally text the wrong numbers, Steve Jobs apparently digitalized reincarnation records, and threatening deities with baseball bats sometimes works wonders (and if that doesn’t work, annoying the shit out of them might do the trick). It doesn’t explain itself and, frankly, I don’t give a damn. Absurd and absurdly charming. I watched it and then immediately forced my sister to watch it again with me; I have a gallery of out-of-context screenshots of this show that watered my crops, cleared up my acne, and killed my enemies.

Black (2017): Honestly, when I figure out what the fuck just happened in the ending, I’ll let you know. I wanted this show to be better than it was, because the premise hit a lot of my buttons, and I wanted to be swept up in a story about life and death (and whatever comes next), and whether being human is in the ability to laugh or enjoy food or make irrational mistakes, or whether it’s in the bigger things: the wanting to be better and the ability to be so much worse, and what the opposite of human is? A woman with the ability to see the shadow of death on those about to die gets swept up in a sprawling web of corruption and abuse when she encounters a childhood friend by accident in a fast-food restaurant, only to see him killed him a hostage situation a day later. He gets better, thanks to possession by a Grim Reaper with his own agenda, but the Reaper’s involvement (and struggles to act human) reveals hitherto buried secrets in the woman’s past. It’s ... grim. Really grim. The web of mysteries is pretty tightly woven, and the show uses unreliable narrators for everything the trope is worth, but the characters and most of their relationships ultimately feel like they fall short of their potential to me, in a way it’s hard for me to articulate? Generally, the female characters felt underwritten and under-utilized; there’s a posthumous trans woman character who’s especially not handled well (better than some, but still felt transphobic to this cis observer). Honestly can’t recommend, unless you, too, can’t resist narratives about grim-reaper-archetypes, or you enjoy being infuriated by nonsense endings. OST’s pretty great, though.

Currently watching Mr. Sunshine (2018) with friends. pray 4 me.

[anonymoustalks]

The left has become absorbed by identity politics and is obsessed with race.. it scares me that they will create more racists than before they started

(6-17-20) You both like politics.

You: heyaa

Stranger: Hi

Stranger: How are you

You: anything you're interested in?

You: I am fine

Stranger: I'm interested in hearing opinions on things

You: oh, me too ^^

You: what kind of things?

Stranger: Politics is divisive, but in order to get a better understanding I wish to listen to both sides

You: awesome, I think that's great ^^

Stranger: :) thank you

You: do you have issues you care about most?

Stranger: The current fall of western society

You: fall of western society huh

You: can you elaborate more?

Stranger: Over the past few years we have seen western society devolve. Where once we were fairly united and we stood strong, we have become more divided and with the introduction of identity politics, that has just worsened till we have gotten to where we are now. China is currently pushing her borders, and yet with the US in flames and the uk following suit (along with France for that matter), noone challenges it

You: mhm *nodsnods*

Stranger: To speak out against the lunacy is to be called a racist and a bigot, not that that's anything new of course but those who are calling for these things seem to not really understand the importance and significance of their actions. I see this as akin to the 1920s Weimar Republic. They are pushing for things they don't want

You: you type a lot haha

Stranger: Sorry i am choosing my words carefully

You: mhm it's fine

You: so you think strong foreign policy is very important?

Stranger: I do. I am from South Africa, though I live in the uk. For those who live outside the us and Europe, we see the importance of Baro and the us on a geopolitical scale. China owns the east of Africa, if not central as well. The us has been the top dog preventing them and Russia from doing much for years, though that's going to change in the coming years

Stranger: NATO not baro* bloody autocorrect

You: oh okay I was wondering what that was haha

Stranger: If I may ask, where are you from?

You: the us actually

Stranger: I thought you might be given the time :) it's half 1 am here

You: yeah it's late!

You: so in your view, western countries need to have more of a spine?

You: is that basically what you're saying?

Stranger: Always. But history has a cycle.

Stranger: Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. Weak men create hard times

You: very fair

You: speaking of cycles, I think something that is floating around these days

You: is whether it's sort of like the beginning of the end of american hegemony

You: sort of like UK's empire gradually had its sunset

Stranger: This is what I am concerned with. All empires have their time in the sun, and all shall fade. I had hoped I would be dead before it happened. I made a prediction several years ago that should trump win in 2020 again, there will be civil war. I am unsure on my prediction of civil war, but I can see that he will win. Should there not be war, I give it another 2 presidencies before yourselves will fall, and ww3 breaks out

You: hmm the us is steamy right now, but idk about civil war

Stranger: It's been brewing for a while now by my estimation

You: that said I would not be surprised about China continuing to be more aggressive

You: that stuff with India yesterday?

You: ^^

Stranger: Without strong willed opposition, they will always push more overtly. They have done so in the shadows for years now

Stranger: And that's just one example

Stranger: They have intruded on Thailand air space as well

You: I don't think either democrats or republicans are very foreign-policy aggressive right now though

You: idk if your concern will be that much better with biden

You: clinton was a little hawkish but she lost 2016

Stranger: It would be much worse with Biden, or anyone from the left EXCEPT Tulsi Gabbard

You: oh you sounded like you didn't want trump to win lol

Stranger: I don't like him. But honestly, he's the best option out of what has been shown. Bernie is a socialist, Hillary is a warmonger, Biden will probably be a puppet. Who can stand? Hillary could be strong, but you would go to war. For all his faults, Trump has avoided war and conflict. He brought North Korea to the discussion table.

You: okay ^^

Stranger: I may not like him but he is effective, and has been a boon to you economy though as someone who works in finance, the next crash is due soon

You: fair enough although I think a lot of places are hurt by the coronavirus economy anyways

Stranger: Yeah.. the lockdowns are odd.. why quarantine those who are healthy? We have always quarantined those who were I'll first, and then those who go out and riot get a free pass? It's a bit confusing, and is a little bit of double think. Rules don't apply to you if you have the correct opinions it would seem

You: idk the US never really had forced quarantines

You: everything here was just you were supposed to do it

Stranger: The uk did, apologies

Stranger: Well not heavily enforced near me

You: we had college students going to beaches even though the quarantine was happening

You: because young ppl think they are invincible

You: and dumb ^^

Stranger: Hahaha yeah you aren't wrong in that

Stranger: But I have waffled on, may I hear your opinions on what we have discussed?

You: mhm, I disagree but it's cool yo~

Stranger: No that's great, it shows that we can discuss and hopefully come to compromise

Stranger: Thank you for being chill and relaxed

You: mhm I'm basically a hippie though so I don't usually take strong stances on international intervention

Stranger: That's fair and understandable. I used to agree with that as well for many years

You: I kind of think it's a little bit of a selfish position to take (the peace one)

You: in the sense that I don't want to deal with other people's problems

You: so in a sense it's kinda selfish

Stranger: It is and it isn't :)

Stranger: It's a moral good and a difficult thing. Peace only exists as reprieve from war. Humanity is a war like species, and peace only ever exists between them. And I applaud your pacifism

You: idk I'm not sure if it's always something to applaud

You: I think in a sense it's a kind of inaction

Stranger: A good thought experiment for you then, look at ww2

You: yup

You: I'm familiar with isolationism in history and its ramifications

Stranger: The us was neutral officially for years, and because they took no strong stance, the Nazis rose to power. Admittedly it was partly the fault of all the allies and ww1 but that's a digression.

Stranger: But war was thrust upon them officially by what happened. The peaceful stance can be taken from you, but that is not a bad thing in my opinion

You: yup

Stranger: What would you do if you could, at that time?

You: at that time?

You: hmm

You: it's not a question I've thought very much about

Stranger: I thought on that myself

You: and what did you conclude?

Stranger: My answer was intervention. Stop the Anschluss, the Munich agreement, the extremely harsh measures of the treaty at the end of ww1

You: oh yeah that was a terrible treaty

You: I kind of imagined myself as an average person though haha

Stranger: But I understand the reasoning at the time for allowing all those things to go through

Stranger: I am too

You: you would have protested your government signing that treaty?

Stranger: That's why thay generation was called the greatest generation. We the average man stood up and took up arms, because they believed what was right.

Stranger: It is difficult to say that if I lived in that time I would. Of it was today, 100%

You: mhm... war is frightening

Stranger: We cannot judge the past with the same moral standing we have today

You: of course

Stranger: And yes, war really is a horrible thing

Stranger: If peace was an option, I would go for it. Often times though, we have no control over that

You: mhm there is suffering in a lot of places, and violence that arises from suffering and hatred

Stranger: Look at the Nazis and the hatred of the Jews. That was extremely common all across Europe, the uk and the us. Many leaders in politics and business liked the Nazis initially. But just because something is common, does not make it right

You: I actually never understood antisemitism

Stranger: You are quite wise, and I agree with you. But the sad thing is, there will always be suffering

You: or why people hate(d) jewish people

Stranger: The scary thing is, many of those in BLM look up to a man called Farrakhan (forgive me on the spelling) who is a huge antisemite. Like he openly calls for violence against them. He gets away with it, because he is black. Why he hates them I don't know. They are hated I think, because they are the oldest abrahamic religion and the oldest monothesist one as well, from which both Islam and Christianity draw their teachings from initially

You: I just don't understand why they are hated

You: often by christians too

Stranger: Me neither, I find it abhorrent. They have been persecuted for thousands of years

You: yeah idk I just don't understand why

Stranger: I have yet to find out why. I know in Islam they hate them as it is dictated within their scriptures, though the exact wording I am unsure on. Christians I would think it's because they don't believe that Jesus was the son of God

You: I guess so

Stranger: But I may be entirely wrong

Stranger: Which I probably am

You: idk I don't know anything so I have no clue

Stranger: Hence why I like and want discussion :) we learn more through communication

Stranger: We become better the more we communicate

You: is there a reason why you dislike blm so much?

Stranger: I stand against identitarianism

You: so basically all those "pride" movements?

Stranger: I come from a racist country that segregated everyone and everything based on the colour of everyone's skin and I was hated for being the colour of my skin just for being born. I cannot condone movements that wish to implement the same things, as it will lead to suffering and hatred.

Stranger: I have nothing against being proud of your race, though I think the idea is a bit stupid. I have an issue with everything needing to divided up based on the colour of ones skin, I choose to judge someone on the basis of their character. I'm not perfect and there are times where I have been prejudiced but it is something I am consious of and wish to not do

You: mhm okay

You: I'm not sure if blm wants things to be divided up based on race though

You: I thought they were mostly against police brutality

Stranger: Some very much so are. Though I will concede that not all of them are, and I should tar everyone with the same brush. But as a counter to that, look at CHAZ in Seattle, they have segregated farms though calling them that is hilarious

You: I thought chaz is just a city block?

Stranger: On the police brutality, I agree with them and that reform must happen. Abolishing police is not a good idea. More funding is required, better training and better internal policies and structures to vette and review the officers is needed. Abolishing them will lead to anarchy. You are correct that Chaz is, but it is a microcosm showing the very things I stand against. I am against racism of all kinds, segregation is a form of racism. The us had a history where they did it too and agreed that it was wrong

You: mhm

You: I just wasn't familiar with blm as pro-segregation

You: that said, most blm activists are just really young

Stranger: They have been co-opted by those who are. And many activists are young white kids

You: I don't think mainstream democrats take them very seriously

Stranger: I'm not so certain. But I hope I am wrong

You: idk I mean these days who knows what kind media we each read

You: so I'm sure I'm in a bubble too

Stranger: They may see these things as a good and helpful idea, but the road to hell is often paved with good intentions

Stranger: Of course, and I hope I'm wrong. I recommend a variety of news sources, especially independent ones. A great one is a guy named Tim Pool on YouTube. He is a left leaning centrist guy who is upfront with his leanings. But he gives the news as it is

You: mhm I try to avoid youtube news

You: although idk if it's truly reliable to always go through bbc or ap or others

You: they are just mainstream

Stranger: BBC is very biased in my opinion. Tim used to work on mainstream media but he left. I would call him credible, he looks at news sources and verifies them. He's very milk toast and fence sits allot the problem with news is that all sides want to spin things the way they want it

You: mhm okay

You: is there any kind of mainstream media that you like?

Stranger: I don't trust any of them when it comes to almost anything except weather and sport scores. I will listen to what is said from various sources before coming to my own conclusions. I have lost all faith in the media since 2016

You: I see, I guess it ends up being hard to find something to trust

Stranger: Unfortunately it is. My reasons for it was both the elections in the us for 2016 and the brexit vote here in the uk. I was very similar to you then, very much so a hippie and very left leaning. I disagreed with Trump and Brexit, but I lost. But the way the media and society within the left handled themselves and the situation, that put me off completely and pushed me to become more conservative than what I was

You: interesting, although I'm not exactly following what made you more interested in conservative things

Stranger: The constant denigration of those who you disagree with. The treatment hat those people got, most of whom are the working class, upon the backs of which society is upheld. They are not racist or evil. They have a different opinion and different values. How does making a choice in a democracy make someone evil when neither side is perfect?

Stranger: The left preaches tolerance, except that it doesnt in reality

You: mhm yeah I don't like that

You: I don't think it is effective either

Stranger: All it does is polarize people

Stranger: And drive them further away from reaching g a compromise

You: right

Stranger: Don't get me wrong, I don't agree with Brexit, but as a democracy we made a decision. So now we need to exact that decision. I would have voted for trump despite my disdain for him

Stranger: Enact not exact*

You: I think there are a lot of people who think similarly as you do ^^

Stranger: There really are

Stranger: The left has become absorbed by identity politics and is obsessed with race.. it scares me that they will create more racists than before they started

Stranger: Constantly calling your opposition racist and evil will force them into being it

You: mhm I think there are some things to distinguish between social media left-wing people and people in everyday life I think

You: the vitriol is always much more amplified online than people are irl

Stranger: Oh agreed! Twitter is not real life, but it has started to bleed over

You: I live in a fairly liberal state, although I don't really think I have ever seen twitter irl

You: although I do think there is probably self-censorship occuring

You: in the sense that people are afraid of what their neighbors will think

Stranger: There is allot of that

Stranger: Anything you say will be used against you. Even if it's not that controversial

Stranger: People have lost their jobs for an opinion not done at work

You: that said, I don't think that's per say the "left's" fault though -- I just think that public opinion has shifted dramatically in the last 10 years

Stranger: Or how about the man who lost his job because his wife said something controversial

Stranger: I agree with you

Stranger: I really do

Stranger: Allot of this I do think could have been stopped years ago

You: I don't really like the lynch firing of people

You: that companies do for their public image

You: because the truth doesn't matter

You: it's just public image

Stranger: They do so because they are scared of the mob

You: but at the same time, I think public image is a thing because majority opinion really has shifted in the past two decades

You: opinions on homosexuality have swung dramatically in the US

You: ten years ago it was totally okay in public to be anti-homosexual

Stranger: Obama was against gay marriage until it was politically important for him to win the next election

You: but public opinion I think has swung really fast

You: yeah

You: I think he swapped at the first poll that showed >50% of americans supported it

Stranger: Yep! I find it hilarious that that was the case

You: yes but I think conservatives find this kind of fast change extremely uncomforting

You: I can understand that sentiment

You: also isn't it getting kinda late for you? ^^

Stranger: Conservatives are by their very nature are conservative. Change is neither malevolent nor benevolent, but we cannot look at change as universally good. Not can we disregard tradition

Stranger: It's 3 am and I can still keep going, I'm enjoying this conversation :)

You: I need to do the dishes eventually lol

Stranger: If you wish to leave you can by all means :) I won't hate you for it

You: I'm fine either way tbh

You: are you working right now? if you have work tomorrow you should prob go to bed

Stranger: It's up to you :) I can go for ages though my coherence Kay descend

Stranger: I'm sadly unemployed at the moment having lost my job earlier this year

You: coronavirus?

Stranger: Sadly yes

You: that's unfortunate, I'm sorry

Stranger: Not your fault :) so don't stress

You: so aside from Russia and China and the decline of western things, is there anything else that you stress about lol?

Stranger: The drive of censorship

Stranger: I have serious issue with censory

You: mhm

Stranger: And yourself?

You: mhm I dunno really

Stranger: That's good, though I would urge you to become concerned with censorship

You: mhm maybe

You: for me it's sort of a contextual concern I think

You: in the sense that it depends on your vantage point

Stranger: Opinions, art and books doesn't matter. Today it is their voice, tomorrow it is my voice. The day after it becomes your voice. Censorship takes away their rights to speak, and your rights to listen

You: mhm, what I mean is that my family immigrated from China

You: so my reference point of censorship is literal government censorship

You: in comparison the "political correctness" thing just doesn't seem as big to me imo

You: because 90% of it to me is sort of like a person's relationship with the neighbor basically

You: the US government doesn't censor what you can publish essentially

Stranger: That's fair enough, but this is where it starts. Things take time, and if anyone gives in (such as they have in several cases) that builds. In time that becomes the norm, there after what gets censored will not be at the choice of the people but of those who are in power

You: perhaps, although I kind of have faith in the 1st ammendment and the US supreme court

You: we barely have libel laws or defamation laws in the US because of the 1st ammendment

Stranger: I have seen calls to change and amend it. In the uk we have no freedom of speech, people have been arrested for jokes, what's been said on Twitter, etc. There are those who say that it's ok to censor this and that because e they are problematic or it would be good for everyone. But that is how it starts. The US has so much freedom

You: ahh... yeah I feel like it is different in the uk

Stranger: The uk doesn't care for free speech. It's very worrying and there are calls for even more censorship here.

You: mhm that sounds worrisome

Stranger: I guess I project it across to all western countries, and that is something we have seen recently

You: I don't think the US will lose the 1st amendment anytime soon, it's not politically realistiic

Stranger: Look at Amazon censoring books and movies being removed etc, this is how this begins. If it is allowed now, how can we stop it in the future

You: idk the status of free speech in other countries

You: actually this is a very interesting topic

Stranger: The us is one of the only countries that has it

You: do you think freedom of speech should be protected in private spaces?

Stranger: Codified in law that is

You: because technically freedom of speech for us is supposed to be only related to public government relationships

Stranger: I believe it should always be be protected

You: specifically "congress will make no law restricting freedom of speech" (paraphrased)

You: so you believe that private companies should not control what is said on their premises?

You: I mean it's fine if you believe that, it's actually just a bit further than what the current status quo is

Stranger: Yes. They are not above the law. Society may shun them, but they should not become involved. Outright calls for violence are against the law and that should be honoured, outside of that no they should not impose on pthers

You: hmm in the US this is where things get super complicated

You: because conservatives are also the ones who want content restricted/said in their religious schools too

Stranger: I've noticed.. and that has an effect on the rest of the world

You: basically "freedom of religion" and "freedom of speech" being on the same political side here makes things very weird

Stranger: And yeah I am aware of that as well, though the pendulum seems to have swung to the other side now. And it will swing back to the other side again

You: kind of like "My store should have the freedom of religion to deny my patrons of being homosexual in my store" kinda thing

Stranger: Yeah it is hard but there is more to the opposite side than just the one thing

You: it's a weird convoluted thing when both are conservative issues

Stranger: That's a difficult one, but I would say that should be discussed and debated but the highest courts. I cannot say from a legal sense one way or the other, morally I can say that it's hard to decide. I think that everyone should get a choice but I am uncertain

Stranger: By not but*

You: mhm that's fine ^^

You: I just think it's very interesting because most laws here, they govern the relationship between between the government and the people

You: so our freedom of speech laws do not apply to amazon censoring books because they are a private company

Stranger: Which is the difficult thing

Stranger: They are protected by being a private company

Stranger: As it's not just them

You: maybe ^^ we have a free market though, so things that cannot be published on amazon will find an outlet elsewhere

You: provided there is a demand for it

You: that said, it also has some gray area with morality laws

Stranger: That is true but monopoloes make things harder to find

You: kind of like youtube banning pornographic content

Stranger: Yeah I can understand that morally, legally I don't know but I would assume that there is some laws regarding that

You: I mean I'm just used to many various sites having bans of various sorts

Stranger: The uk has some

Stranger: Yeah, but there are protections for them being platforms not publishers

You: I don't think there is any law forcing youtube to ban pornographic content; it's just a branding choice by the company

Stranger: If they are publishers, those protections don't apply

You: like I think they want to be seen as family-friendly

Stranger: Fair enough, would have thought there might be

You: porn sites are not illegal in the US lol

Stranger: Not family friendly, advertisement friendly

You: lol true

Stranger: Sorry I don't know enough to be able to say :) I'm happy to admit that

You: mhm aside from political correctness, I guess I just don't personally see a big problem with censorship in the US

You: although I think I have a different belief than you that I think it's okay for private companies to choose what they want to publish

You: even if the ban content

You: these companies still need to compete

Stranger: Them doing so is fine, but if they wish to be protected as platforms they cannot act as a publisher. I think that's the Crux of their protections

Stranger: It is something that has been going for a while though

Stranger: And I think Trump will have it in his campaign for reelection this year

You: okay ^^

Stranger: But I don't know, he has been interested in censorship and has said he is against it in the past

You: I think people mean different things by censorship

You: but that's just imo

You: there are almost no western countries that experience censorship by their governments

You: so people mean things like censorship at their workplace

You: although imo that's kind of less censorship and more on the political correctness spectrum

Stranger: True. That is very true. But if you don't stop censorship openly, then should it come from government you don't already know you can stand against it

You: but to me, that "political correctness" isn't anything new either; it's as old as time

You: like did we always worry about saying something that would offend our boss?

You: ^^

You: it's always been there

You: I just think people are uncomfortable because bosses have changed in the last few decades

Stranger: It's not just their work place. The new "town square" is has become online. Your freedoms online are not protected despite it being codified in law

Stranger: And you aren't wrong, and coming from China or at least your family, you bring an interesting perspective

You: I feel like in the US we have very little digital legislation

You: the US of is head of hear

You: *there

Stranger: The world needs a digital bill of rights, to protect us all and our data. But we won't get it

You: but I don't think we have anything guaranteeing that speech on the Internet is free by any regard

Stranger: I would argue we do

You: hm? which law?

You: I like most websites have ToS's and rules banning X Y or Z on their site

Stranger: Freedom of speech and expression

You: oh I mean in terms of law

Stranger: That is what I meant, so that we are free to speak and express ourselves. I also believe that our data should be private and cannot be sold and that should be protected. There are other things that I have heard but it's difficult to remember all those that were proposed

You: ahh

You: yeah we don't have those laws right now

Stranger: Today stuff is okay but you are not protected

You: although the EU has some privacy ones that we don't have in the US

Stranger: The EU doesn't care mostly

Stranger: Some laws only protect some information, I'm talking about all of our information

You: ^^

Stranger: Everything we post and do is tracked, monitored and sold

Stranger: We revel in it, "I was talking about cats/dogs and all of a sudden I got adds for cat/dog products"

Stranger: We hear that often

You: yup

Stranger: Also, with regards to our rights and things, who holds these companies accountable?

Stranger: Take google for example

Stranger: They have been caught tampering with the elections

You: well, again, we have basically no laws about this in the US so there is no accountability

Stranger: They openly censor news and opinions

Stranger: They are a monopoly

You: although some europrean countries have lawsuits whatever with them

You: yup they totally are

You: where are anti-trust laws lol?

Stranger: That's what I think Trump will be looking at, I would if I was in his shoes

Stranger: But they were given special protections

Stranger: Those need to be taken away, the large companies need to be broken up but governments are incompetent

Stranger: I don't trust them to do it well

You: mhm it actually reminds me of south korea actually

Stranger: I mean there are a few senators in the states that I think have the moral fortitude to do so, but I don't know

You: countries are loathe to break up companies that they're proud of basically

Stranger: Yep

You: like samsung in south korea lol?

Stranger: They wouldn't break them up

Stranger: It would do serious damage to the economy and blah blah blah

You: their revenue was like 20% of the entire country's gdp

Stranger: Yep it's a difficult argument

Stranger: And I can understand why you wouldnt

Stranger: That 20% could drop to below 1%

You: anyhow it is getting kind of late

You: it was nice talking to you

You: and you should sleep ^^

Stranger: Likewise! :) I needed to move my sleep schedule for a 24 hour race on the weekend anyway, sp thank you for occuping my time and mind :)

You: goodnight!

Stranger: I'm glad to have met another willing to talk, take care my good friend

You have disconnected.