#his character is strongly defined by his role in the narrative because that's how stories work. but like

[protect-namine]

.

[vlazed]

The Knight is Mayor Holiday

AKA “You might be overthinking the ‘Who is the Knight’ question”

One of the biggest discussions I’ve seen in regard to Deltarune relate to the identity of the Knight, the presumed main antagonist of the story and the one behind opening Dark Fountains in Hometown. Many candidates have been discussed, each with varying reasoning and evidence for them.

But all of the discussion feels a bit… reachy, at times. I think some people are expecting some crazy reveal that needs 4D chess analysis to figure out, when it makes more sense to simply analyze it from the angle of Deltarune’s overarching story and character arcs. In a good story, these kind of things don’t come out of nowhere, and Toby’s narratives are no slouch in being well structured and detailed.

Which have lead me to a pretty simple conclusion: the Knight is Mayor Holiday, Noelle’s mother.

But let’s back up a bit.

Before anything else– who Mayor Holiday is.

She’s Noelle’s Mom, Rudy’s wife, and the Mayor of Hometown. She’s responsible for organizing the Festival coming up later in the week that has been mentioned by multiple characters.

She has been mentioned to be a bit of a stern figure, hard on Noelle and making her home life difficult due to Rudy being on the hospital and unable to mediate things at home.

Her name likely starts with a C, as the letter on Asgore’s wall regarding his rent is signed with that as the initial. Her stern wording with Asgore here also makes sense for reasons I’ll discuss later.

That’s most of what we know so far. Plenty of stuff can be inferred from those details and other aspects of the story, but those are the main bits for now. Now, moving onto the Knight itself.

So far, in Deltarune, multiple times Darkner characters have referred to “the Knight”, specifically being implied to be the one creating dark fountains across Hometown.

So far, a few things have been made clear about the Knight:

1.) The Knight is a defined character within Deltarune and not just an abstract concept

One take I’ve heard being bounced around a bunch is that there isn’t one particular Knight in Deltarune, and that, in fact, there are multiple.

While I don’t think this is completely untrue, Queen’s dialogue positing that she could make Noelle into a new Knight shows that. However, this also shows that the Knight wasn’t a predefined role– the current, main Knight opened the fountains and became known as the Knight due to how they presumably presented themselves. Seam describes them as having locked away three of the four kings of Card Castle, meaning they have had direct interaction with the Dark Worlds themselves. This is how their title of “Knight” was known in the first place by King and Seam.

To me, this shows that, while the role of Knight is interpreted as a particular person. Queen wasn’t positing that anyone who opens a fountain is labeled as a Knight, but rather that she would make Noelle into a replacement, a new knight in the previous’s place.

One particular piece of evidence I want to point to is this quote from the UNDERTALE 6th Anniversary Stream, where Toby described an idea he had for an opening animation for Deltarune:

This is what makes me most strongly believe that the Knight is meant to be a defined character. If the Knight was a misdirection, and is rather a title used to refer to anyone who opens a Dark Fountain, Toby referring to a silhouette of the Knight looking down at the other characters wouldn’t make sense, because multiple people would be the knight and need to be there. His vision depicted one figure being seen as the Knight, opposing the characters atop the staircase and next to the door.

While other characters can and do open Dark Fountains (Kris at the end of Chapter 2 being a prime example) and this could make them knights in their own right, they are not THE Roaring Knight, the specific Knight that Seam, King, Jevil, the Swatchlings, and Queen refer to.

2.) The Knight is responsible for opening fountains throughout Hometown

This is a much simpler point to make clear. The two fountains we have thus seen in Hometown have likely both been opened by the aforementioned Knight.

In Chapter 1, it’s stated that the Card Castle fountain is recent, unlike the Castle Town one, described as being created recently by the Knight that put King in power.

In Chapter 2, the Swatchlings and Queen again refer to the Knight, saying that it was the one who created their world. Given Queen’s relation to King, it is likely they speak of the same figure, which is reinforced by the inexplicable appearance of the library fountain, similar to the storage room one. This creates a pattern indicating the same character is likely behind both.

“But how are you so sure it’s Mayor Holiday?”

Simple, she has all of the traits and narrative ingredients to fit the role in a satisfying manner that is coherent with the current story.

1.) NARRATIVE COHERENCE

Deltarune thusfar has had the relationship between the Dreemurr and Holiday families as a focal point of it, having grown apart ever since the disappearance of December Holiday. It is the reason for many of the occurrences in the story, like Kris and Noelle drifting apart, Asgore losing his job, and more. This conflict underlies much of Deltarune’s narrative and character arcs, and thus it makes sense for the Knight to relate to that conflict given its focus in the story.

2.) MOTIVATION

Mayor Holiday also has pretty clear motivation for WHY she would be the Knight. Her daughter, December, has been missing for what is presumably years after an event that clearly took a toll on her. It was shown in the Police Station that Asgore was removed from his role there:

The only person that would presumably have the power to do this would be the mayor, as the Chief would be the highest rank within the force itself.

Asgore failing to find December after her disappearance would absolutely be reason enough for Mayor Holiday to fire Asgore. She lost her daughter, and would see Asgore’s failure as unforgivable given his position.

Because of this, Mayor Holiday clearly has a vested interest in finding December. Finding December is still seen by those who know her as a possibility, specifically with the track “FINDHER” being released during the Spamton Sweepstakes. Opening the Dark Worlds makes perfect sense as a way for Mayor Holiday to try and find December.

Given what we know of the bunker incident, chances are her disappearance wasn’t conventional, and Mayor Holiday would realize finding her wouldn’t be conventional either. This would lead to her opening fountains, attempting to find December in the darkness. Her not finding December in the first few Dark Worlds could lead to her trying to go deeper, darker, potentially trying to bring about the Roaring via the Town’s festival she’s responsible for organizing. It makes perfect sense for why she’d be opening them up given what we know.

3.) PROPER BUILDUP

What’s important in a narrative is to build up ideas and characters as the story progresses. It’s why characters develop in arcs, change happens gradually, and thus it makes sense to gradually introduce concepts that will become important later.

The festival is clearly something that is being built up as what is likely the capstone for Deltarune, potentially the stage for the final Dark World or the Roaring itself, as it seems like it will take place at the end of the week, right before Asriel comes back home.

This is being done through small character dialogues, starting somewhat small with the characters at the Mayor’s office referring to it coming up and Mayor Holiday working on organizing it, to more direct foreshadowing with Susie talking about it with Kris in the ending of Chapter 2.

The slow buildup of the Festival directly parallels the slow buildup of Mayor Holiday herself, being mentioned in Chapter 1 to being given more references in Chapter 2, with Noelle’s arc of gathering the courage to stand up to Queen, who is clearly a stand-in for a mother figure for Noelle. Given how hard Mayor Holiday is on Noelle, it makes sense gathering this courage is something she would need in her personal life as well.

Noelle is going to likely stay a major character, too. She’s the centerpoint of the Weird Route thusfar, saying to herself in the hospital that she needs to find out what’s happening with Kris, implying she’ll have a major role in that story. Alongside this, the screenshot given of her in Chapter 4 also implies she’ll remain a major player moving forward.

If Noelle’s arc continues as it has, it only makes sense that she’ll eventually gather the courage to stand up to her mother in the light world as well, which would also flow well if Mayor Holiday ended up being the Main Antagonist, giving Noelle’s development a direct relationship to the main conflict.

Probably the biggest reason I think it’s Mayor Holiday: she actually has a connection to Kris and Noelle.

Like I said, the relationship between the Dreemurrs and Holidays is a focal point of Deltarune’s narrative. Given this conflict, it would give Kris and Noelle, two of the main characters, a direct relationship with the main antagonist. It sows seeds for how they develop, how they relate to the overarching conflict, and how it might be resolved. If the Knight was, say, Papyrus or Alvin, their identity as the Knight would have far less narrative weight.

I could talk more about why I don’t think it’s those two, but that’s probably the most concise way I can put it– it wouldn’t make for as interesting of a story. Papyrus hasn’t been given a meaningful connection to Kris, to Noelle, to that town, not that we know of. Him being the Knight wouldn’t make for an interesting reveal because we only know him in the context of Undertale. He has been given no stake in Deltarune thusfar, which wouldn’t make as much sense because Toby wants Deltarune to be seen as separate from Undertale. Mayor Holiday directly connects with the main themes and conflicts of Deltarune, and thus would make the most sense for being the main antagonist.

———

So, uh, yeah. It’s Mayor Holiday. Evil mom truthers can hop on board with me and be totally awesome and correct. Sorry if this was a bit long winded, figured I’d rather be concise than understate my ideas. Feel free to correct me on any front, or if you think there’s reasoning for another knight or how they would be more compelling.

[paradife-loft]

Well, here we are. And I will say - I would not be unhappy if Buffy won. I love Buffy dearly; her relationship with Dawn is great. But imo, it's gotta be Maedhros.

One of the things Maedhros is most defined by throughout the story is his political leadership, and that both starts with and is heavily inflected by the authority he takes over his s i x deranged fey hellion (affectionate) little brothers. He takes point defending some of the most forbidding territory on the front lines of the war against Morgoth, one of the first lines of defense for his brothers' realms further south. In the face of what might've come to civil war between the Noldor, he takes his responsibility and birthright as his father's eldest and heir to broker the deal that mends the relationship between the two sides of the royal family and that his brothers likely would've refused if the decision were left to them, giving up the High Kingship to his half-uncle. And that's significant to me because it's the kind of decision he's able to make because of the position he's occupied as the eldest - one who's looking outward to collaboration, compromise, and strength across factional lines, seeing the big picture for a whole group of people larger than merely his own personal interests.

The respect he commands as the eldest is a part of what makes that work, too, instead of just causing further significant fractioning and factionalism. And the same goes, I think, for his choice to stand aside at Losgar rather than helping his father (and his other brothers) destroy the remaining Noldor's chances of crossing the sea on the swan ships - while it's a personal decision, it's also one that resonates with his overall position of leadership, and his place within his family but not wholly ensconced within it - which again, I see ultimately coming out of the role he takes as the oldest child relative to all his siblings.

Still on the topic of political leadership intersecting with familial relationships to create key interpersonal tensions - the time he spends as a hostage of Morgoth! Morgoth tries to ransom him back (after capturing him by going back on his claim of surrender in the first place), but his brothers by that point know the lie that would be, and so refuse. All the individual motivations aren't dealt with in detail, but the narrative weight of this not being simply the Noldor's king at the time, but the brother who's fully taken up the mantle to lead the rest of them so shortly after their father being killed - ! It gives this episode a feeling of anguish and futility and impossible choices that wouldn't resonate so strongly if this were merely a more distantly-related king taken hostage, someone who hadn't been a presence for all of their childhoods and provided that unifying point of decision-making and authority once their father died.

I think enough other people have probably talked about his significance as the oldest brother later in the story, so I'm just going to leave it with that, but. The thing about Maedhros is how fluidly his leadership and political skill and status as the eldest of his divided, divisive pack of brothers twine together to create his character and narrative role. And g-d is it such a thankless task, too! All of the danger, all of the blowback and responsibility, none of the freedom to be a giant fuckup and threaten to murder other political leaders on a whim without completely tanking everything he's been working for and ruining all his credibility. So let's give the guy some love and recognition for it at least <3

Eldest Sibling Tournament — Round 3

[blowingoffsteam2]

Literally just saw a gamerant article about how riku's character arc is done and he is probably going to take on a more mentor like role for yozora who is now going to act as sora's "rival" and Riku is gonna be a bit less relevant....why does literally everybody think Riku is done as a character??? Cannot wait for the next game announcement to confirm Riku is still the deuteragonist of kh lol

Lmao well that article certainly aged like sour milk after khmom came out...unless this is a new one in which case...even more yikes.

The reason people think Riku is done as a character is because they can’t see beyond his redemption/darkness arc- which is for the most part complete. But Riku has a whole other thread to his character that is far more fundamental to understanding him and is still unresolved. I think there are two main things about Riku that people miss and therefore can’t imagine a major role for him:

1. Riku is gay. He is in love with Sora. And this isn’t just something incidental that has no bearing on the story, it is actually arguably the most important thing to understand about Riku as a character because it makes sense of his actions and motivations from the very beginning. If you don’t understand this, you don’t understand Riku, period. Riku is keeping all these feelings locked up and hidden from Sora, and it’s /painful/ for him. “All that’s left in my heart is misery and despair, and now you can share it!” “There’s no need. Got my own.” This wasn’t just a throwaway line. Combined with the fact that Sora is simultaneously stating his own confusion about romantic love and also not being able to define what Riku is to him, not to mention Sora losing memories of his sacrifice, I think it’s clear that Riku’s feelings will not remain hidden forever. Not from the audience, and not from Sora. The failure to see that Riku is in love with Sora and/or not believing his feelings will actually be explored is why people can’t see where the story could possibly go for Riku.

2. Riku is the light. There is a reason Riku being “the light” is being so heavily hinted at through the entire series, reaching absurd levels of obvious in kh3, only to be seemingly ignored by the narrative (and consequently missed by the audience) This is a quintessential narrative set up, and I can almost guarantee it will have a major payoff. I don’t have the answer for what exactly this will be, but I strongly believe it will play a huge role in his upcoming arc, just as learning to accept the darkness was a fundamental part of his first arc. As Nomura said all the way back in CoM, the question of /what/ Riku is has yet to be revealed- but it will.

[comicaurora]

Odd question, not sure if you've been asked it before. But I've been talking with some friends about Aurora and Kendal specifically. They asked me if he could beat Goku (or at least stand a chance). So, can he?

I love this question every time I see it because it's utterly meaningless. Goku wins in his story most of the time because he's the protagonist and the narrative is arranged such that only Goku can save the day. On rare occasions when other characters stand a chance or need focus from the story, Goku loses and/or gets stuck in a pod while they take a turn. Goku's power and skill level are functionally limitless because his personal arc is entirely about getting stronger and overcoming scarier and scarier enemies, so whenever a new arc starts they roll out the measuring tape and say "okay Goku, your badassness is currently at X level and in order to defeat this new guy you gotta get it up to at least a Y. Do this funky new training or technique to get X incremented a little, then start the fight anyway when you're still not ready, then work your way up to crossing the Y threshold over the course of the battle." Gentle slap on the bum and off he goes.

I remember the outrage a few years back when Resurrection of F came out and Goku is at one point incapacitated in his at-the-time absolute strongest form by getting shot in the back by a mook with a regular laser-gun. It didn't technically break any internal narrative logic - Goku has only been shown blocking or tanking laser-type attacks that he's explicitly prepared for - but it was still so shocking because it broke the paradigm of "Goku wins as long as the narrative needs him to win." Of course then everything starts making sense when Vegeta saunters in like "by the way I can also do that form he just did. I figured it out. offscreen" and tags in to fight, which was neat, but that was the only reason Goku was suddenly vulnerable to Normal Weapons.

"In a fight who would win" always seems to assume a single platonic ideal fight between two characters, as if there aren't a basically infinite number of ways any fight can go - strongly dependent on environment, context and character motivation as well as their theoretical willingness to fight "all out". But ultimately, as with all fiction, the question is - what outcome serves the narrative? These questions scuttle themselves right out the gate by presuming some contextless void for the fight to take place in, whereas in actual storytelling, fictional characters are almost entirely defined by their context and what narrative arises from their interaction with it. Goku wins when the world is at stake and nobody else can save it, or when he's gotten stronger and the audience needs to be shown how badass he is now - not when he's facing a specific quantified caliber of enemy because his quantified number is bigger than theirs.

This is a problem faced very strongly by superhero media. Characters like Superman can seem weirdly underpowered in their solo runs, where every jobber villain of the week has to present some kind of real challenge or risk being boring. Superman in the context of the Justice League, however, seems more powerful because he serves the role of team powerhouse, so they can throw him at ridiculously big problems like an exploding volcano with a kaiju in it and be like "okay while he's hitting that really hard we can do the narratively exciting bit by evacuating people or having tense interpersonal conflicts with each other or dealing with Amanda Waller." And then in the context of other character's solo runs, Superman's power level is completely inconsistent. If the focus character needs to be allowed to save the day, then Superman will be one-shotted by the bad guy or turned evil or taken out of commission by kryptonite or something. If the focus character is in over their head and needs a timely rescue, Superman will save the day no problem. If it's the New 52 Supergirl run they won't even bother to keep his personality consistent, let alone his power level.

All of this sounds dumb on paper, and it frequently is, but the effectiveness is all in the execution. A fight can always be arranged to have a specific outcome, no matter who the participants are - and every arrangement can be justified in-story. This strong character was weakened by the environment, or in emotional distress and couldn't concentrate on the fight, or just really didn't want to hurt their opponent. This less-strong character used their skills and the environment to their advantage, or figured out and exploited a very specific weakness in their enemies. This is why nobody actually likes those "hero vs hero" crossover comics; they promise a singular decisive answer to a fundamentally open-ended question. No matter what answer they give, it won't be the only answer, but an only answer is what this question implicitly demands. That's probably why half of those crossover fight stories cut off at the two-thirds mark with the heroes being like "wait, stop fighting, we were misled by a bad guy" and then team up to kick that bad guy's ass. It's not a resolution, it could be called a draw, but hey - now you get to say your Thor action figure used his special move on your Iron Man action figure, and isn't that cool anyway?

[mc-critical]

How would you rank Sultan Süleyman’s children in the show based on how well and distinctly and consistently characterized they are?

I sometimes feel like I'm in the minority in my thinking that nearly all the princes are well characterized or, at the very least, fulfill their thematic purpose. Now, is there a narrative outlining of their roles that often tends to point us to who should we root for or not? Yes, of course. It's pretty clear who is favored by the writing and who holds the central focus. But is this that damaging to the characters of the princes? Well, for me they have way more depth than people I've encountered give them credit for, even like this.

Still though, the one prince that deserved better from the writing and should've been explored more is definitely Mehmet. When it comes to sympathy, I like him fine - he's a nice and well-meaning guy who is loyal to the people closest to him and his fate is nothing short of sad and tragic. I sympathize with his desire to go to a sanjack and gain experience there, this is the strongest piece of motivation we got from him. He certainly loves strongly, doesn't think bad of anyone and isn't yet ready for the dangers of the world around him, he's vulnerable to them because he hasn't gotten out of the castle for so long and everyone has been cool with him at the least. That also reveals a degree of passivity in him. He strongly values his father's decisions and respects them even when he's not okay with them (when he refuses to let him go to a sanjack) or when someone else isn't (i.e. Mihrimah). He can stand up for himself at times, but caves to the will of his parents in the end anyway because of his dedication to them. But these characteristics are only set up, not properly delved into. He ends up being underused and undeveloped, gets almost no material on his own and what he does get isn't fully about him except for his antics in Manisa at the end of the season, he's just more often a background character than anything else. He's pretty consistently characterized, but he's more one-note compared to the other princes. Though I have to admit that retroactively we can see why SS favors him so much, albeit it being more "inside the lines", because it's a theme that gets more explored in S04 than in S03, and his fatal flaw is defined from the start, which is a nice touch, all things considered. He had potential with his dynamics, but we weren't given enough even with his good interactions with Hürrem and Mihrimah that added flavor nonetheless. I spoke more about the problems I have with him here. (I came off as rather biased in that ask, but my thoughts stand. There I also linked my stance on SS's relationship with him, because it's both thematically interesting and Mehmet's most fleshed out relationship.) I have to say I do like little Mehmet more, because he looked more active as a character (he's the second most characterized little prince after Mustafa, along with little Cihangir as well.) in his childish wish to marry Aybige, in being next to Cihangir along with the others, in his little story with Mihrimah about the breaking of Hürrem's crown where we could see both of their contrasting approaches to the problem, in him being glad for Mustafa going to the sanjack even there... Yes, it is also setup and I may be overanalyzing it, but it was enough in that point of the show. Older Mehmet didn't really get the chance to go beyond that setup.

I have a soft spot for Cihangir. Some think that his love for Mustafa is his entire character, but in my opinion, that's further from the truth. He has a well-defined personality and arc: he's bookish, he's interested in art and is also shown to have political capability (him, Mustafa and Bayezid advising SS to go to Rome.). He's the one who's the least in the throne war, their moral compass, so to say, their only piece of innocence left (Selim and Bayezid even acknowledge it at some point), yet is very perceptive of his surroundings, the only one out there who has the chance to look at this fight as an outside observer, which is why he can see and understand all perspectives the way he does (as seen as his interactions with Hürrem and his speech about the fears to Mihrimah.). He doesn't play an active part of the fight, he doesn't intrigue or scheme, he doesn't like such methods, but he still has an established side and scolds those he sees as wrong. He doesn't stand by when someone does something he doesn't agree with. He openly shares his views. His relation to his unfortunate condition is very interesting: he knows he's loved and appreciated by those around him for who he is, but he's understandably still upset that he can't live life as every prince does. He's aware of the cruelty of the battle for the throne, but he admits that even he dreams of the throne along with everyone else. He knows he can't have what the others do, that it's forever lost since birth and that scares him, but he still is so strongly attached to everyone in the family. Yes, Mustafa has a special place in his heart, but he cares about the rest. A lot. He understands his mother, despite of not approving some of her actions and even chose her rather than Mustafa in one instance. His love for Mihrimah and Bayezid is pretty clear by their interactions. Even when he's seen scolding Selim more than anything, they have a very poignant moment that truly underscores how interesting their dynamic actually is. And Cihangir loves his father, leans on him. It was precisely the huge shock and disappointment of his father doing what he promised he never would that brought him to his heartbreaking end.

Cihangir had distinct enough characterization to leave place for nuanced dynamics and good scenarios for a condensed runtime. Only his side story for Huricihan didn't do him much justice (then again, I have issues in everything about Huricihan, but that's something else entirely.), although it showed his care for Bayezid, and I wish we saw even more of what I described, especially his dynamic with Selim. More happier moments would be nice and would flesh him out even more, with every prince being together and bringing something to a conversation, but it's S04 we're talking about... Little Cihangir is also such a cutie and a sweetheart and older Cihangir was a solid follow up. Overall, for a bit more than a half-season they did a good enough job, though again.. gimme more Cihi!!!

Mustafa is often viewed as a righteous hero stereotype, but this way his depth gets overlooked by some amount. He's definitely his trope and the writers love to play it straight as often as they don't so much, but he has a clear personality, motives and goals. I won't say much about older Mustafa, because I talked about him in depth and why I think his characterization is great here. I love the way his biggest strength is his biggest flaw and he has enough material for his character to be explored. The most unique thing about him is definitely his relationships and the moments where he snaps or is close to snapping, because they are a nice contrast to how he usually is. Mustafa is a character that keeps his principles until the end and writing-wise, this is fascinating as much as it can create repetitive scenarios at times. My single problem with him is precisely this: Mustafa's fatal flaw isn't something he eventually develops; it's something that's always been inside him since E01 and that results in constant, almost formulaic plots ending in scolding and confrontations with his father again and again until the next one happens, which gives off the impression that Mustafa, as a character, is stagnant and never learns from his mistakes. It's as if he does the same thing again and again, since the reason for him doing it remains the same. And it's like it must remain the same, it cannot disappear, because it has to be utilized thematically- it's what would ultimately lead him to his death. (that problem is present in Mehmet, too, but to a comparatively smaller extent, due to him being reduced to a background character.) Mustafa simply developed in other aspects, not in this one.

To be honest, Mustafa gets even more points because of his characterization when he was little. He indeed felt vibrant and alive, with so much personality and characterization right out of the starting gate. The way he missed his father's presence, since he couldn't see him as much as he once did in Manisa, the way he was sensitive to his mother's suffering to the point he told her he didn't want to make her cry ever again, the way he was willing to assert himself to get what he wanted, his childlike curiosity about the ongoing events, him playing with everyone.. He even had a bit of development: he didn't want a brother at first, but eventually he loved and took care for his brothers like no other and that was built on with grown! Mustafa. Older Mustafa in general felt like a natural progression to little Mustafa and together they create a good character.

Selim and Bayezid are intriguing to me. Their characterizations are as well handled as their conflict and we see why they do what they do. There's quite a lot to unpack in Selim's personality: he's the true outcast of the family, the one everyone immediately writes off when it comes to the battle of the throne. He's different than everyone else, he doesn't partake in their happier conversations and that upsets him, no matter how much he tries to hide it until he can't take it anymore. It doesn't seem like it at first glance, but he cares a lot about what people think of him and strives to make a good impression, even if he doesn't always succeed. His arc is about realizing and doing what it takes to win the game and we can see the way he accepts the reality he didn't want to grapple with. He has awesome dynamics with everyone, but especially Nurbanu, Bayezid, Hürrem and Mihrimah. I'd argue that he's the prince with the most development out of the five, since there actually is a condensed, yes, not 100% complete, yes, but linear change in personality. We can't talk about Selim's characterization without mentioning the narrative voice that supposedly presents him in a worse light that the others and that could make him look more shallow than he is, but I feel he had his fair share of sympathetic moments and his condition makes us root for him rather than decry him. His characterization goes along with his thematic purpose (presenting Süleiman's S04 view of loyalty), much like the other princes, but it's not in the level of existing just for the sake of that or as egregious to put him at a disadvantage. He is "shadier", compared to the rest (but the same goes for Bayezid for me, tbh), but that makes him more interesting and three-dimensional. It makes him more human in a way. He does actions the narrative never condones and he isn't presented as the best fit to the throne, but he has logical motives to go that far. He's shown to do what he's deridingly known for, yes, but that doesn't define him. A crime he didn't historically do is also added to his list and that may leave people with a bad impression of MC Selim and an attempt to vilify him further, but writing-wise? It was a fitting end of his arc. And his feelings over it are messy and conflicted long after the fact.

I see more and more aspects of Bayezid while rewatching the show and they aren't him being shown to be "good" and "right", because of "bad" Selim and because he sides with Mustafa. Bayezid is brave, ambitious, a good fighter and has similar virtues to Mustafa and Cihangir, while at the same time he holds understandable, but destructive anger he lets out that makes him impulsive, stubborn and irrational. A lot of this comes from him never being favored by his father and his conflict with Selim which is caused due to insensitivity, ignorance and the attempts of both of them to prove themselves to their parents. Bayezid seemingly had the support of those around him and he himself knows his own capabilities, but deep down inside he still isn't sure whether he's supported 100% even by his mother who turned to Selim for a while. Bayezid can be playful and considerate (shown mostly in his debut scenes), was merciful, yet constantly provocative. He, along with Mustafa, had the most varied interactions: he has a huge dedication for Mustafa, he has a truly brotherly dynamic with Cihangir, he knows Mihrimah is the only one who would fully stand behind him, even in the end. He, similarly to Cihangir, loves his mother a lot, but doesn't condone her actions. The same goes for Huricihan. He both knows where the line is, yet doesn't. His arc was about realizing that he can't act like Mustafa when he is at the verge of ending up like him, thus directly rebelling against Süleiman. Bayezid also changes throughout the narrative: he becomes more about survival the more we go and his flaw keeps getting more and more visible.

[Now, little Selim and little Bayezid are more about foreshadowing of their future conflict than anything else except for a few moments in between. Their older counterparts are big improvements and I think there truly is a lot to appreciate in them.]

[jin-zixun]

As a big fan of both characters, I'll say I don't agree but also I knew I'd see this comparison. Because I *can* see some superficial similarities. Plus, Qi Rong is treated in canon the way Su She is treated in fanon tbh, just like this annoying guy everybody hates and doesn't want around. But Qi Rong does deliberately make himself an annoyance! He's always going after people trying to get that attention he ordered. I don't know how far you are in TGCF so I don't know how much more I should say.

As for the relationship between him and Xie Lian, well, he's his little cousin. He admires Xie Lian and becomes disillusioned by him, along with everyone else. His regard for Xie Lian is Xie Lian's fall in full reflected in a single person who emotes strongly and doesn't hold anything back. Qi Rong is a stand in for all of Xianle.

Su She... Does not fill that role for Lan Wangji. Everyone still loves Lan Wangji. Su She is just resentful of being compared to Lan Wangji. (Su She is actually quite accomplished especially for a guy without any prominent bloodline, but that's a different conversation). For Qi Rong, it seems others are more resentful of being compared to him. Both characters are accused of copying more powerful people (but honestly Su She is just doing things the way he learned them because he's from the same sect as Lan Wangji) but for Qi Rong, he copies anyone who has something going for them because he doesn't understand how they have what he wants and he's desperate for connection.

Qi Rong is kind of defined by being this kid with trauma and probable undefined mental illness that hasn't figured out the world or his place in it, or how to care for and be cared for by other people, even after 800 years. Do both characters have an inferiority complex? Yeah probably, but like so do a lot of MXTX characters, so I'm not sure it's enough to say they play the same role.

Su She does figure out how the world works. He does find a place in it. He's the Chief Cultivator's right hand man! I mean that's his role in the narrative when it comes down to it, isn't it? He's not still an outcast desperately trying to cause problems for the establishment 800 years later. He's established after only a dozen, when most of his action takes place. He's a foil to Lan Wangji (who I would not call an analog to Xie Lian in any case) but less because of any inferiority, and more in how far he'll go to defend Jin Guangyao.

I don't see where Su She 'goes rabid' either tbh. He belongs to Jin Guangyao and he does what Jin Gunagyao says until the end where he dies for Jin Guangyao. He isn't rabid, he is fully subdued the whole time, and happy to be so. He does not emote strongly for the most part actually. Unless he's deliberately trying to obfuscate or defend Jin Guangyao. He's generally a very subtle character who is trying to stay hidden through most of his story.

If I had to think of an analog for Qi Rong I'd say somewhere between Jin Zixun (evil cousin who hunts humans for sport) and Xue Yang (amoral murder twink looking for that attention he ordered). But honestly, I think Qi Rong is best enjoyed as his own thing.

as someone who's just getting into tgcf and trying to ascertain qi rong's vibes based on what I've been seeing, would people who've read mdzs and tgcf say su she and qi rong seem to play somewhat similar narrative roles?

like there's lan wangji of the gusu lan, this really upstanding and accomplished dude, and then there's su she who's... not that. With qi rong there seems to be a similar contrast to xie lian.

also to me the vibes seem to read like (again, no idea how accurate this is) qi rong is a feral pet Vs su she who's like a domesticated creature gone rabid

[slugtranslation-hypmic]

Hihihi this is may be a weird question but is your opinion on the main hypmic cast?

In brief:

(Spoiler alert: It was not brief. Stuck under a cut for length)

Ichirou: He's a good kid. I wasn’t super into him at first, as main protagonists very rarely hold my interest, but I appreciate him now for the struggles he goes through and the growth he’s experienced across the series.

Jirou: Jirou is also a good kid in his own way. I didn’t know what to do with him for a while, but now I feel like I understand him too. I don’t think he quite gets what makes Ichirou be as loved as he is, nor does he really understand what makes people love him for who he is. But that’s okay. He’ll get it someday.

Saburou: If you had tasked me as a fourteen year old to create an idealized anime boy sona, I would have come up with someone shockingly similar to Saburou. I’m fond of him. He can be a bit mean at times in a very fourteen way, but deep down, he’s a good kid too. All the BBs are good kids.

Samatoki: I just can’t not make fun of him. His posturing is so ridiculous to me that I am constantly filled with the urge to clown on him. Oh, you think you’re so tough? You think you’re a big tough guy? Well, I’m just a little bastard; what are you going to do about it? But underneath the posturing, I do feel sorry for him and admire his strengths a lot. He’s a good kid too under a very funny exterior.

Juuto: I’m enjoying learning more about him from the BB/MTC+ manga, but I’m a bit surprised at how much of a dick he is even deep down. Still, he has plenty of good qualities too, and I like him in a vague sort of way. I’d throw fruit at him over a fence but wouldn’t put any malice in it.

Riou: What a delightful individual he is. The BB/MTC chapter about him really resonated with me. For a character so outwardly obsessed with the military, Riou has an incredible understanding of the weight of his actions and such a deep appreciation for every living thing. There’s a lot of his depth to his simplicity, and the level of care he exhibits towards everyone is delightful to witness. An absolute favorite among the cast.

Ramuda: Self-recognition through the other (derogatory). In all seriousness, Ramuda’s story arc and actions are great narrative tools for me to examine some things about myself and grow to try to be a better, more considerate person towards myself and others. I want to see him achieve freedom and happiness.

Gentarou: I enjoy Gentarou quite a bit, although I think he gets overshadowed by the other members of Fling Posse at times due to my sheer passion for Dice and Ramuda. He’s my favorite character to translate at the moment, which is apparently heresy among Hypmic translators. More than the sheer fun of writing his witty banter, I find him to be a very intriguing individual, and I’m excited to learn more about him. I want his happiness too.

Dice: Oh, Dice... He’s a really good kid in a way that the BBs could never be. He’s deceptively good, and he does choose to hurt other people and himself in ways that characters like Ichirou don’t. But he also finds the goodness in the oddest places, like a person finding a coin in a cracked sidewalk, and that’s delightful. His narrative is one of the most compelling for me. What a champion of a character.

Jakurai: Wow, what a good foil for Ramuda. Let me bounce narratives off of you like a mirror. I’m slowly learning to find him compelling in his own right, however. This is also a self-recognition through the other (derogatory) scenario, but there’s more of an emphasis on the derogatory part.

Hifumi: A funny little individual bearing a lot of sadness and a whole lot more courage. Like most of Matenrou, I admire him a lot, but I think that Matenrou resonates much more strongly with other people than they do for me, so I prefer to sit back and let other people appreciate them. I think he’s very brave and very fun to read/write.

Doppo: The biggest fucking mood in existence. When you move past the stereotypical aspects, you end up with another character who has a lot of deep flaws but also an incredible amount of courage. I’m excited to see where they go with him, but again, I’ll sit back and let others take the first row here.

Kuukou: Having already drafted Saburou, if you came back to me at age eighteen and asked me to make an idealized anime boy sona, you would probably have ended up with a character astonishingly like Kuukou. He brings me sheer joy. Astonishingly, I feel like Kuukou has exhibited the least growth out of any of the cast, and yet I do not mind a bit. He is the closest to the perfect man I have ever met. I would drop everything to be this dude’s homie if he existed in real life. Just a champion individual.

Juushi: Juushi’s a good kid. I’m very fond of him and like writing him, but much like Matenrou, I feel like he does a lot more for other people than he does for me. Therefore, much of how I work with him is less, “How do I enjoy this character as a reader?” and more “How do I nurture the traits about him that other people love?”

Hitoya: Hitoya strikes me as a damn good person with a lot of heart who sometimes lets his anger drive him a bit too much. He’s also utterly ridiculous, of course, but I try to write him with as much strength as possible to be present behind his words. He honestly seems like a great person to know in real life, not simply as a fictional character, as well.

Sasara: I have to clown on him to assert dominance. Joking aside, I admire the depths of his character and the growth he’s shown over the series. He can be pretty callous at times and goes to odd lengths to get what he wants, but I think he’s now starting to realize how much his actions affect other people. For a while I was really in his camp as a hardcore Sasara lover (back before he was a main cast member - I love writing quirky minor characters), but now I approach him with the idea mentioned above, ie how I can present him for other people.

Roshou: Whenever he’s around the rest of Dotsu Hon, I think he’s kind of an idiot. I mean that in the best way possible. It’s very endearing. Yet moments when he’s on his own are where I think he best shines, and I would love to see more solo material for him. He’s an incredibly good support character, and I admire his passion for his students.

Rei: I really enjoy asshole antagonists, which is why I liked Ramuda for a while before the clone story came up behind me and struck me into the ground with its mighty fists. Now Rei fills this role. I would love to learn more about him and team up with the Buster Bros to pelt him with rotten eggs in a fun bonding activity. I’m sure there is some strong backstory that will absolve him of at least some of his shittiness, but until now, I’m still not excusing his whole abandoning his children thing, not to mention the human trafficking thing he pulled with Ramuda.

Otome: I hate translating her, if only because she and Rei frequently talk about things in extremely vague terms that I have no context for. It’s hard to make her sound idiomatic in English while also not shooting myself in the foot by accidentally filling in the wrong information. But with that aside, she’s okay. I like her, I guess. Her motivations are pretty interesting.

Ichijiku: Ichijiku was written for people who are sexually attracted to women, and I’m not at all, so I 100% approach her in terms of her pull on other people. She’s fun on her own, though, and I’m impressed at her ability to walk in high heels. Her complete disrespect for everyone but Otome brings me no end of entertainment in reading and writing.

Nemu: YOU. Maybe this is some stupid toxic masculinity thing, but I always feel embarrassed speaking affectionately about male characters but not at all about female characters. Therefore Nemu gets all of my loveposting. She’s a wonderful girl! She has such a strong spirit, and I’m completely overjoyed that she’s making her own decisions and becoming her own character defined on her own terms. I want to watch her grow up big and strong. Fuck yes, baby girl! Fuck it up! I’m very proud of her.

[aspoonofsugar]

Hi if its not too much trouble, would you mind writing a meta on Nora and her semblance?? Shes my absolute fav and kinda underappreciated imo

Hello anon!

I love Nora as well! I think she is the most emotionally intelligent character in the series, to be honest. That said, I am waiting for her story to reach its climax before writing a meta on her semblance. This is because I think we are still missing the heart of her arc to be honest.

That said, I have talked a little bit about her here and here. Moreover, you can find some general thoughts under the cut.

It is clear that Ren and Nora’s arcs are strongly intertwined. What is more, I think the Atlas arc has clarified how they are structured and what their role is in the overall story.

First of all, Ren and Nora’s story revolves mainly around each other and their relationship. They are introduced in volume 1 as a set. They are a couple of opposites that complement each other:

As the series goes on, it is revealed that they share a traumatic past event aka Kuroyuri’s destruction. That night they meet and they both receive a weapon:

Li’s dagger becomes the basis of Ren’s StormFlower, while the toy hammer becomes the basis of Nora’s Magnhild. So, Ren defines himself through his dead parents and his destroyed village, while Nora defines herself through Ren. Not only that, but Ren’s rudimentary weapon being a real one, while Nora’s being just a toy highlights that by that point Nora’s sense of self is frailer than Ren’s.

This all creates an asymmetry in their relationship:

Nora: I don’t actually know who I am… without Ren. Pretty sad, huh?

This asymmetry is explored and commented on throughout volume 8. Basically, Nora is clearly in love with Ren, but their recent conflict makes her understand how she has depended on him too much and how, if they want to have a healthy relationship, Nora needs to discover who herself wants to be.

Volume 8 really marks a shift in their relationship, not just when it comes to them in-story, but also structurally when it comes to their arcs. Up until volume 8, Nora has been Ren’s helper. Volume 4 is really Ren’s arc with Nora supporting and helping him. In volume 7, we see Nora working hard for their relationship, while Ren puts distance between them. Finally, volume 8 has them struggling separately. In this volume, we probably see Ren finishing his personal arc (or a major part of it) and Nora starting her own. I am expecting Nora’s arc to reach its conclusion in Vacuo with Ren as the helper this time around.

Still, what is Renora’s arc role in the narrative? As for now, I think their struggles have offered a commentary to some major themes.

In volume 4, Ren’s arc ties into the theme of the arc of knowledge. You should not let your fear or anger stop you from doing what is right. He overcomes the fear that paralyzes him (Raven and Leo) and the anger that blinds him (Jaune).

Volume 7/8 is instead Ren exploring the theme linked to the arc of creation. You should embrace your feelings even if they are hard and make you feel vulnerable.

So, what about Nora?

Nora’s journey in volume 8 explores this motif:

Blake: When you’ve been at someone’s side for so long, after a while they become a part of you. But that’s just it, they’re only a part of you. Don’t forget about the rest.

Penny: But there is a part of me... It's making me...

Nora: It's just a part of you. Don't forget about the rest.

Penny: I won’t be gone, I’ll be part of you.

It is the idea that people are complex, made of several parts. In order to be yourself you must accept all your parts, but without letting one of them define yourself. Similarly, to have healthy relationships you should aknowledge that others have also different sides and you might not like all of them or agree with all their choices. Still, this does not make loved ones less loved:

Vine: Then perhaps Clover was wrong too.

Harriet: Don’t you dare! Clover was… He was…

Vine: …Important to you.

As for now, the “it is a part of you” motif has been used to explore different concepts: grief, relationships, trauma.

Each one of these themes are explored through the same motif. The conclusion is the same.

-The people you lose will stay with you forever, but you should not let yourself be defined by grief (Harriet and Qrow’s arcs, Penny’s death).

-Trauma and abuse are not something that can be cancelled, but you do not have to let it define you (Penny’s virus, Yang’s arm).

- Loved ones are a part of you, but they are not you. They are people you choose to stay with because you want to, not because you need to.

So, in volume 8 Nora’s story ties into this specific concept and it comments Penny’s arc. This fits because deep down both Penny and Nora’s arcs are about identity... Who is Nora? Who is Penny? Are they worth something just as themselves? Penny has finished her arc, while Nora’s arc needs to be finalized.

We do not know what her story will be about. As for now, I think it will thematically comment the main story and will tie in one of the themes of the Vacuo arc. I also wonder if we are going to discover more about her past:

Nora: Oh, got shocked by lighting, didn't die. Crazy Thursday!

Personally, this phrase has always sounded suspicious to me :’’’) so I wonder what the story behind it is. Considering the strong connection she has with Ren, I would not be surprised if Nora managed to activate her semblance in order to protect him, just like Ren did with her. Alternatively, we may discover more of Nora’s past before meeting Ren and her ability to turn electricity into strength might be related to turn trauma and pain into a resource. This is a motif shared by many characters, Yang (positive), Cinder and Mercury (negative), for example.

Anyway, I am curious about the thunder symbolism, specifically in relation to her lightening heart symbol. As for now, I can see two meanings to it.

a) A symbol of a heart hurt by trauma (thunder).

b) A symbol of Nora being thunderstruck as if in she having fallen in love with Ren.

Both meaning may apply given what we know about Nora (and both could be true). Surely, thunder is probably going to be important for her character :’’’) given it is a huge motif for her and something even present in her emblem. Nora’s emblem is basically a combination of her weapon and her semblance. Still, we know where her weapon comes from (Ren), so I wonder if we will know more about the thunder motif. Does it tie with her feelings for Ren (thunderstruck) or with her family (Valkyrie)? Or maybe with both?

What’s sure is that the meaning behind it is clear:

Ren: You put everything you have into what you do. You support everyone around you, you help without worrying about how it might hurt.

Nora would do anything in her power to help others, even if it means hurting herself in the process.

Thank you for your ask!

[caspersscareschool]

since youre a fellow trans mitsuri enjoyer, i thought id ask, but how would you personally go about making her a trans woman in the story while still taking in consideration her canonical themes, narratives, and the time period? (may or may not be looking for ideas on how to make mitsuri trans in my rewrite lol)

HIIIII OTHER SOLACE HIHIHI OMG i forgot to finish answering this sorry but HI. SO.

first a disclaimer: i am not transfem and am by no means an authority on experiences like this, so girl followers are welcome to correct me on anything or chime in. also i’m having trouble articulating myself rn so this might not make sense

i actually think being trans fits really neatly into mitsuri's existing narrative: no matter how bright and bubbly and feminine she is on the inside, she always feels like her body is too big, too strange, to fit in the tiny box of conventional womanhood, and society never treats her like a woman. being a woman to her means being worthy of love--the same giddy, abundant, unconditional love she pours out into the world--and everyone tells her she has to make herself smaller and smaller to fit into this microscopic box. love, to her, is innate and and abundant and unconditional to everyone but her until her friends show her otherwise

she probably came out from a very young age, and since i'm pretty sure her family is decently well-off, i think her parents are very supportive, especially her dad, which is why she has so many nice clothes and stuff like that. i think she wanted to get married so badly at first, not just out of love, but to prove that she could be a wife, and everything that supposedly entails: she could be small, she could be quiet, she could be obedient. she could fit into this box if she tried hard enough. she starved herself for that, and it still wasn't enough. i think her parents support her in getting married just because they want her to do what makes her happy, plus i guess it was a thing of the time for girls to get married young and they didn’t want to suggest she couldn’t do it or something. idk

a lot of her journey in loving herself has to do with defining womanhood on her own terms and transforming her idea of femininity from a prison to a playground. like. i don’t think she had to fall in love to realize that she possesses the same unique, beautiful light that she sees in everyone else, she lights up a room just by being there, and she doesn’t have to apologize for taking up space . idk

but yeah. mitsuri's entire character arc IMMEDIATELY struck me as a very straightforward allegory for transfemininity, but ik a lot of other marginalized women have versions of this experience of being alienated from a narrow definition of womanhood too, which is why her whole character holds so much unrealized potential. idk if any of this was helpful at all but basically i think you could do a lot with her. i rlly need to catch up on your rewrite lol

sort of unrelated, but i think gender ties really strongly into sanemi's values as well, in that he forged his own definition of manhood by the negative space his father left and his desire to protect his family. but that void only grew as they lost more and more, which is why he acts much larger than life and holds other men to such an impossible standard of strength and responsibility, considering anyone who falls short of it either pathetic or deliberately cruel, while being more likely to respect and trust women upon meeting them. he and mitsuri both hold themselves to unrealistic expectations based on cartoonish ideas of gender roles and viewing them as trans adds a layer of nuance to their existing character arcs imo and i wish they interacted more because of that <//3

[patchwork-crow-writes]

...reading this just now has made me reconsider the relationship between dark fountains and the notion of "will"... or what we might have called Determination in Undertale.

This is going under a read more because it got quite long!

Shortly after Lancer turns to stone in Chapter 2, Ralsei says the following: 'You see, each Dark Fountain creates a different "world"... a "world" whose darkners reflect the will of its fountain.' Now, I always assumed that he meant the will of the person (or more accurately, the Knight) who had drawn the fountain up from the earth, but it never once occurred to me that he might have literally been referring to the fountain itself...

Which makes me wonder - to what extent is a dark world shaped by the will of its Knight... and to what extent is it shaped by the will of the fountain itself? If there is a clash between those wills, then which of the two wins out? Which takes precedence?

The reason I ask those questions is because of the stark differences between the closet fountain and the fountains in the classroom and the librarby, and the different "narratives" they tell, as you've so astutely pointed out. I hadn't considered the closet fountain to even have a narrative, but that's because I was comparing it to the more clearly-defined narratives of the "impure" fountains that we know were created by the Roaring Knight. But of course, there is one there - the story of a once-desolate kingdom becoming a place of sanctuary, both to darkners displaced from their worlds of origin, and to wayward lightners with nowhere else to go.

Consider Ralsei's words to Kris and Susie after he reveals he made up rooms for them: 'I'd be happy if this place... could be a second home to you. A place that you can go... no matter what's happening outside.' This place is meant to evoke a sense of sanctuary, of homecoming... and Ralsei himself is an extension of that, as both its diligent custodian and with his as-yet unexplained connections to Kris. He is literally "reflecting" the will of his home fountain, in this instance.

As are the others who come to this place, including King and Queen. It would be difficult to draw a pre-canon connection between these two, owing to the fact that they (a) belong to two entirely different worlds, and (b) there's no relationship between their light-world objects - King's a playing card while Queen's an entire laptop (there's the whole "solitaire" thing but that's a pretty weak link imo). And yet, here they are acting for all the world like a weirdly-amicable divorced couple. Then there's Lancer, who Queen doesn't ever directly interact with in the Cyber World, but has just now decided to become his "mother", and while that's not necessarily out-of-character for her to do, it's a little... jarring how quickly everyone just falls into these roles.

Unless and until you consider the idea that the closet fountain is literally reshaping them to allow them to better "reflect" the narrative of a home, complete with a mother, father and child. And the fact that the existence of rooms for Kris and Susie, and what Ralsei says, strongly implies that something big is going to go down up in the Light World (the Dreemurr Family Reunion?) that might make them want to seek the narrative of sanctuary that this world promises...

In the light world, a once-loving family is torn apart, and in the dark world, complete strangers are being conscripted into a caricature of a family. Is that the "will" of this fountain, and the dark world it has created - a flawed and misguided attempt to set right what has seeming gone so horribly wrong? A refutation of the cruel and unsentimental truth of light in favour of the comforting but ultimately-superficial lie of darkness? A misguided attempt to redress a perceived imbalance in the world that can only ever end in disaster?

You've given me a lot to think about here, so thank you for that! I hope that these half-formed thoughts make some semblance of sense and aren't too overwhelming!

Thoughts on CastleTown and its future?

it's really fucking weird! who made this dark fountain. why is it purer than the others. how is the player name known. why does it keep changing.

i feel like like the other dark worlds, there's a narrative that's meant to be told there, if a softer one; like, i will be honest that I think it forcibly retconned king and queen because it was like "oh these bits work together!". it wants to build a story of a home, maybe, a place to rest, a place you can hold and observe.

i don't think that's gonna last,

[lazyliars]

Tubbo for the character breakdown? :D

How I feel about this character

c!TUBBO MY BELOVED.

The Sidekick. The Yes-man. The Pawn. The Child Soldier. The President. The Government. The Revolutionary. The Fool. The Scientist. The Husband. The Best-friend. The Leader. The Follower. The Underestimated.

Tubbo is a man with many titles, and as the situation calls for it, he can wear any of them comfortably.

Tubbo is defined, more than a lot of characters, by those titles, and by who calls him by which ones. The roles that he has played over his tenure on the server have left a more dramatic impact on both how he is perceived by others, and his own self-image.

He’s Tommy’s Sidekick and Best-friend - but he’s also Ranboo’s Husband, and Snowchester’s Leader, and A Scientist with Jack Manifold, and an (ex) President to Techno, and a Pawn to Dream.

What's interesting is that this relationship with titles is one he shares with Technoblade, and it's a unique way in which they foil each other. None of either of their other foils really share this dynamic, and to add to it, they both propagate this in each other. The difference is in how they deal with, feel about, and utilize it.

Techno is “The Blade” and “The Blood God,” and he hates it. He feels used, objectified, and reduced to a weapon by these titles. At the same time however, the actions he ends up taking only reinforces the way the average people perceive him – violence, blood and anarchy. The reputation Techno has aqquired often overshadows the person who might prefer to be seen as.

Tubbo on the other hand, tends to slip into the these titles without much resistance. He accepts them, sometimes for better and sometimes for worse. He's happy to be Tommy's sidekick; He takes on the role of President of L'manberg; He accepts Dream's metaphor for himself as a Pawn. But to his advantage, his flexibility within these roles and the ability to put them on and take them off as he pleases gives him a uniquely wide arsenal of social tools.

There is so much more to say about c!Tubbo but If I keep going I could be here for hours...

All the people I ship romantically with this character

I am an enjoyer of his marriage with Ranboo, although I wouldn't call myself a shipper really.

I think their dynamic as two people who value kindness, but who also possess the capacity to be surprisingly ruthless, makes them an unusually dangerous and honestly, somewhat thematically opposed pair.

Tubbo is one of the people on the server who has the longest and most consistent relationship with what Ranboo would consider “sides” which automatically sets him up as a foil. Before even L'manberg, it was Tommy and Tubbo vs. Dream, and Tubbo has always held that loyalty close to his heart, and likely wont be cutting that off anytime soon. As a consequence of this, he naturally adds Ranboo to the list of people “on his side,” quietly, but surely.

Ranboo's somewhat correct, somewhat misidentification of “sides” as the root of all conflict on the server, in contrast to Tubbo, drives him to be more individualistic, “choosing people over sides.” And accordingly, it would be a stretch to call him a member of Snowchester, despite how deeply entrenched he's become in it's founder's life. At the same time, it's clear that Tubbo is one of, if not the most important person to Ranboo out of everyone on the server, and he's willing to do anything to protect him.

All in all, Ranboo and Tubbo end up being an odd couple for a multitude of reasons, who, despite some very core differences in personal philosophy, both end up caring for each other ferociously.

My non-romantic OTP for this character

I would love to be contrarian here, but I just can't. Clingy Duo 4 LYFE!

Tommy and Tubbo's friendship, from the start of their time on the server to the current day, has been one “thing” that I continually return to, and that the story over all returns to. They are the emotional anchor of the server in a lot of ways – both a representation of it's innocent, idyllic past, and it's forward march into a darker future. Whenever the narrative wants to make a story beat feel strong and impactful, they'll often end it by echoing the scene on the bench that started everything, whether or not it's Tubbo and Tommy specifically; their Bond resonates so strongly throughout the DNA of the story that their Bench has become a Symbolic Archetype all in itself, and is something that no longer even requires the two of them present to recall it's power as a representation of Attachments, Loyalty and Platonic Love.

TLDR; Clingy Duo is the glue that keeps the core of the story together, and intentionally or not, most important friendships will end up either paralleling or foiling them by the sheer fact of how impactful their relationship is to the greater narrative.

My unpopular opinion about this character

I don't know how unpopular or not this opinion might be, but I do consider Tubbo to be a darker character than a lot of the content for him I see produced.

One way this expressed: he's incredibly pessimistic. He's a person who lives his life hyper aware of how easy it is to die, and with a full acceptance that, if a worst case scenario should arrive on his doorstep, he would die without hesitation, if he had to.

That isn't to say he isn't invested in preventing that, far from it – but there is an undercurrent of absolute certainty that he is living on borrowed time.

One interesting development on this is how he's expressed this – during the Disc Finale, Tubbo has already accepted his own death. He tells Tommy that he's “done enough” and that he should let him die so that Tommy can have his disc back. He tries to get Tommy to resign, to not fight Dream in the end because he can tell that they've already lost and he doesn't want him to have to die too or suffer more.

Contrast this to Snowchester now – as we've learned that the Nukes have dead-mans switch; a suicide button, that only Tubbo knew about. It's a far more proactive expression of this mentality, a final ace up his sleeve, so to speak, so that if an unwinnable situation should occur again, he can turn it from a loss into sick kind of pyrrhic victory.

It's important to note that Tubbo has not yet projected or pressed this mentality onto others; this is self destruction only, and I do think that says something about him, although it's less positive and more tragic.

One thing I wish would happen / had happened with this character in canon.

VILLAIN ARC. VILLAIN ARC. VILLAIN ARC.

Okay, as a specific example, there is sooooo much missed potential for Egg!Tubbo (and Egg!Tommy) and I will die on this hill.

Imagine, in a world where Tommy isn't immune: Tubbo gets trapped and infected by the egg, as it offers to grant him the one thing he wants most in the world.

The vines grow around Snowchester, seeping into the cracks in it's walls and then hardening into a scaly form, creating a shell around his home. The ambient radiation causes the egg to grow faster in this area, and form odd spikes that loom outwards from the heart of the town, like blades pointed at anything that gets too close.

Tommy realizes too late what's happened, and when he tries again and again to convince Tubbo to just come with him, please come with him to Church Prime, he’s sure that they can find a way--

--he ends up letting Tubbo lead him, and follows him down to the depths of the egg.

When the doors behind them are covered in thick vines, and the humidity of the room increases, and every breath feels like it draws in clouds of dust, it’s already too late to run.

Tubbo stays with Tommy for the two weeks it takes for his will to break and the egg to infiltrate his mind; it's offers of wealth and vengeance and rebuilding L'manberg and resurrecting Wilbur and making people love him and making him powerful and giving him the whole world--

--all rejected, until finally, in the sickening red haze of Tommy's mind, a single scene; a clear blue red sky, the sun high and bright, a warm breeze blowing in, a bench, the sound of good music, and there--

Tubbo moves and the vines around him creak, having been undisturbed for days. He places his hand on the mass of crimson where Tommy is trapped waiting.

--Tommy grins and rushes forwards, all of the weight in his heart, all of the dread and responsibility and fear and anger and hurt and pain, all of it suddenly gone on the breeze as he takes his place next to Tubbo on the bench.

The Eggpire grows. The vines begin to appear in more vulnerable places – peoples secret rooms, near their pets, wherever they keep their most sentimental objects.

Tommy loves causing harmless mischief, and the feeling of being accepted, of being cared for? It's perfect. Nothing can touch him now, where everything is simple and easy and just the way it should be.

Tubbo knows. It's not a deep feeling, it's not a secret part of himself still in there, still fighting. He knows, and when he sees Bad staring him down, piercing through him, he knows that Bad knows too.

There is no kinship for them. There can't be. That would be too close to rebellion against The Crimson. That would be too close to comfort.

But Tubbo knows quietly. He's not a follower by nature, but he'll follow now, simply because he's seen the most logical way to attain what he wants.

And he and Tommy will make a kinder, safer world then the one the Crimson is eating now.

[maxwell-grant]

Do you think The Shadow could/should have an end ? If yes, how do you think she would be ?

I(Sidenote but "The Scent of Death" is one of my favorite Shadow covers, if only because I am deeply in love with the idea of The Shadow meeting with a Grim Reaper who's just casually offering flowers. It's what I see when I look at it anyway)

Not gonna reply how I think it should be, because that goes into some of my plans for the character I don't feel like letting out, but regarding him having an "end", yes. Actually, if you ask me the number one story I want to tell with the character, after of course just telling general Shadow stories the way I think they should be told and stories about the agents, it's the story of how he dies.

Not how he achieves immortality, not the story of how he dies but lingers as a ghost, but dies for real. No second chances, no hidden plans, no successors (I'm very strongly against the idea of the Agents becoming The Shadow or him having bloodline descendants who take the role), no returning from the grave. He gets to, for once, for real, die, and actually stay dead.

I think part of that is because of something that Alan Moore mentioned in his Twilight of the Superheroes pitch. As horribly misguided as that was, I do think he opens it with a very solid idea:

As I mentioned in my introduction to Frank's Dark Knight, one of the things that prevents superhero stories from ever attaining the status of true modern myths or legends is that they are open ended. An essential quality of a legend is that the events in it are clearly defined in time; Robin Hood is driven to become an outlaw by the injustices of King John and his minions. That is his origin. He meets Little John, Friar Tuck and all the rest and forms the merry men. He wins the tournament in disguise, he falls in love with Maid Marian and thwarts the Sheriff of Nottingham. He lives to see the return of Good King Richard and is finally killed by a woman, firing a last arrow to mark the place where he shall be buried.

That is his resolution—you can apply the same paradigm to King Arthur, Davy Crockett or Sherlock Holmes with equal success. You cannot apply it to most comic book characters because, in order to meet the commercial demands of a continuing series, they can never have a resolution.

Whether (The Dark Knight Returns) will actually ever happen in terms of "real" continuity is irrelevant: by providing a fitting and affective capstone to the Batman legend it makes it just that... a legend rather than an endlessly meandering continuity. It does no damage to the current stories of Batman in the present, and indeed it does the opposite by lending them a certain weight and power by implication and association— every minor shift of attitude in the current Bruce Wayne's approach to life that might be seen in Batman or Detective over the next few years, whether intentionally or not, will provide twinges of excitement for the fans who can perceive their contemporary Batman inching ever closer to the intense and immortal giant of the Dark Knight chronicles.

(Another sidenote is that me and my family cried very, very hard at Spock's death the first time we watched it, even knowing immediately he was gonna come back the next movie. It still hits pretty hard just thinking about it)

You can argue whether or not this is a requirement that holds back characters from becoming "true myth", but there's an undeniable power and status that is to be found in stories about The Death of The Hero. It's not just a cornerstone of storytelling but quite often it can end up becoming the most popular and/or critically-beloved story of a long-running franchise character, who of course doesn't need to actually die forever and gets to have it both ways, truly great characters who stand the test of time can have iconic death scenes. And The Shadow doesn't have one. The only time he's ever even died in a narrative was in Andy Helfer's Shadow run, and everything in that run was mostly played as a farcical joke and his death was only the pretext for his eventual return in a robot body.

In truth, it is pretty difficult to imagine The Shadow ever dying, because sure, we can imagine Superman or Batman dying to save humanity or Spider-Man biting the dust after an ungodly exhertion to save lives. Not that The Shadow wouldn't do those things, but he's the kind of character who seems like he's going to inevitably get back up again, like Jason Voorhees who won't stay down no matter what, who's always going to show up in a last-minute jumpscare or a secret plot. Because The Shadow is strongly associated with horror and supernatural, we tend to assume he's never going to die so much as he's just going to retreat to the darkness to come back when someone least expects it.

It's interesting also that, while The Shadow isn't suicidal, he is also much more willing to throw away his own life for the sake of others than you'd expect from a character of his personality type, even in circumstances where he would save more people in the long run by protecting his own life. The Shadow is unshakeable when it comes to death, of those he chooses to kill as well as his own, and on the few instances where Shadow stories have gone deep in his head enough to showcase fears and anxieties, the fear of death or injury is never among them, it's more consistently a fear of failure or a fear of his own worst nature coming to the forefront (in a way, the only thing he really fears is himself). But when it comes to death?

He's been canonically described as a daredevil who welcomes danger (usually by laughing), and he seems to treasure the idea of dying for the sake of something, of getting to go out while fighting and taking a bigger monster out with him.

SHADOW: Cain, that vault door is six feet thick...and when it's shut this vault is absolutely airtight. Even you can die of suffocation. Sit down, Cain. You and The Shadow will be here a long time...forever.

CAIN: I don't believe you! You wouldn't make this insane sacrifice just to kill me.

SHADOW: The Shadow has spent a lifetime fighting crime. There could be no better death for The Shadow than this. I will take with me the greatest archcriminal of all time - The Immortal Murderer

Looking at it from a general perspective, the fact that every Shadow story that makes him immortal usually exaggerates his worst and most toxic traits. even starts to have some grounding to it. Because these are stories that happen past the point where The Shadow would have been allowed death, the death that every human, every warrior, every hero, must be allowed to have. You know how that "you either die a hero" line goes. Well, what happens when your hero, who's already skirting pretty damn close to villainy as is, isn't allowed to die at all? Worse, isn't even allowed to change with the times?

Not that this justifies those stories or how badly they mangle The Shadow's character (because they always come from the idea that he's always been the sadistic jerk they make him into), and I'm definitely not stating that "immortal Shadow" stories have to revolve around the deterioration of his persona (I'm partial to ghost teacher Shadow myself), but the idea is there.

This is part of why my stance on this question changed from "well, yeah maybe that could be a fun story to tell" to "actually, yes, we need a Death of The Shadow story, and it has to be done very well and done to a version that's written in-character, and I don't currently trust anyone to write this story the way it needs to be told. I don't trust myself to fully deliver on this premise either, but it's a necessary idea that's been long overdue."

So, yes, I definitely think The Shadow could, and should, have an end. I definitely think it's something that should be considered by anyone who wants to write the character.

[animatedminds]

Star Wars: Visions - Episode 8: Lop and Ochō

Early reveal for the rest of the review: this is by far my favorite of the films so far (who knows, maybe Episode 9 will extremely wow me, but until then...), for what is actually a variety of reasons that I will probably go into at length. And because there’s nothing I like better than to nerd out at length, there is better time than now to delve into... Episode 8: Lop and Ochō Developed By: Geno Studio Directed By: Yuki Igarashi Another one that uses a brief narration to approximate the opening crawl of the films, again to great thematic effect.

This is also another one with an explicit timeframe. During the rise of the Galactic Empire, we focus on a formerly isolated planet that has reached out to the Galactic Empire in hopes that the Empire’s influence can modernize their society (some very clear Japanese historical subtext here), leading to many aliens immigrating to the planet. This includes Lop, a homeless bunny-girl alien (mildly jarring, since Gamorreans aside animal-people aliens is something you’re more likely to find in Wing Commander) who escaped from captivity and one day bumped into the patriarch of the ruling clan of the planet and his young daughter. The daughter - Ochō - insists on adopting Lop, leading to her father bringing her into the family: and so Lop and Ochō become like sisters.

Years later, strife strikes as the patriarch - Lop and Ocho’s father - realizes that the Empire only intends to exploit their planet and mobilizes a guerilla force to strike back. But Ochō takes the opposite opinion: without the Empire’s influence, their backwards planet is doomed to fall behind no matter how noble their culture is, so they must submit to ensure their own future. This rift explodes as Ochō formally joins the Empire and their father steps up his efforts to fight back, while Lop stops at nothing to stop the fighting and bring her adopted family back together again.

The very first thing I’m going to focus on here is the choice in how the story opts to approach the setting. Here, instead of getting a Jedi who visits this planet, seeing these people as an outsider does in the way most of the other shorts set up narratives of this type, the focus is on this particualr culture and how its individuals see the Empire’s presence. You are immersed into these people and their ideologies, their history and how Lop and Ocho fit into it all as heirs in the next generation. This is a fantastic way of doing this - you may recall that back during my review of The Village Bride, I commended that short for giving the people of that short a distinct means of looking at the Force, but even in that one the people were secondary: objects of the Jedi’s perspective. Here, Lop is technically an outsider, but that only outlines the prominence of the setting and storytelling as she is then raised alongside this new family and world.

The presentation here is very similar to something like Lost Stars, a book in the current canon that I’ve always seen as one of the best Star Wars novels made in the last few decades. Like Lost Stars, this short uses the characters culture to set up their upbringings and situations, and then applies that to the issue of the Empire: Lop chooses to oppose the Empire - or, more accurately, to try and bring Ochō back home - because of how much her adopted people’s attachment to family has shaped her. Ochō chooses to join the Empire because she sees nothing but the big picture, her good intentions leading her down a draconian path, and as the story goes on her conceit as an entitled heir eventually starts to show itself. The conflict does strike similar beats as the one between Thane Kyrell and Ciena Ree for similar reasons: the story makes sure we know why these characters are going to split before the split happens.

The characterization is good, is what I’m saying. A great example of doing great, distinctive character work in a short amount of time.

I should also get the visuals. This short combines bright, modern character designs with a very classical, painted aesthetic for the world around the characters. This gives it a very classic animation feel, like watching a Miyazaki movie or Sleeping Beauty: the location art of this episode is among the series’ best, and the action animation manages to combine a fluidity of motion with a simplicity of choreography, in a way not unlike The Ninth Jedi - another of the shorts whose action animation stood out.

Back to the plot with another interesting track: the story makes it unclear how strongly force sensitivity plays a role, which also gives it a good contrast to the others which generally don’t just star Jedi, but are almost exclusively about Jedi intrigue and entanglements: Lop is clearly strong with the force, but she has no context for that and her objectives have nothing to do with being a Jedi - she is centered around her people and her family. The lightsaber we see in the short - fantastically - has a backstory similar to the Darksaber we see throughout The Clone Wars, Rebels and The Mandalorian: centuries ago, a Jedi was trained from this warrior culture, and instead of passing their saber down to a padawan or giving it back into the Order, this Jedi instead passed the saber down through their family, again cycling back to the way this short uses the characters’ unique perspective and history to approach the setting rather than the other way around. The people in the short only have legends of the Jedi, and the only thing that’s significant here is that the sword featured is the prized possession of their clan.

This gives the story a lot of room for questioning, especially as the ending is open rather than definitive: is Lop going to learn more about the force, and if so will she do through the lens of her people? Who was this old Jedi, and does the sword have a history like the Darksaber does? And most importantly: the war against the Empire does not end with the end of the short: where will it go from here? Will Lop and Ochō ever be reunited? There is a degree to which this short comes off almost like a pilot for a longer story, which would serve me just fine - for the reason I’m about to get into now: As always, a purpose of these reviews is to look at how much potential these shorts - which are currently non-canon - have to some day become canon, or even at least be followed up on by the studios involved. The potential there comes down a few key factors: the major one being the amount of support these shorts get from the fanbase. But another is in how easily or organically these shorts can be incorporated into the framework of the Star Wars universe.

And are the chances for this short’s incorporation good? ABSOLUTELY. I generally judged the other shorts’ potential on how little they contradicted the world and setting around them. With this one, however, its simpler to think of it from the opposite direction: this is exactly the kind of stories that gets told in the Star Wars universe today. There are several stories I can think of just like this in concept that were made within the last few years alone, or even being made right now: the current canon loves its stories about X culture in one corner of the galaxy and how its reacting to the rise of the Empire, which heroes come from there and why. Where those heroes go in the end. The comics, especially, always seem to be on the lookout for more focus characters to play with, but I also mentioned Lost Stars earlier, and that’s a very good point of comparison: for the same reason Lost Stars makes for one of the best prose installments of the current canon, Lop and Ochō has a lot of open real estate it can waltz into to define its own part of the universe.

Besides a couple superficial stylistic things (the symbols on the lightsaber blade, as I mentioned before, Star Wars doesn’t typically do strictly “animal people” as species - that’s more a Wing Commander thing - but that doesn’t mean they couldn’t if they really wanted to), there’s nothing really stopping this thing from getting canonized. I really hope people make some noise for it, because I’m being serious when I say this of all the films has The Best Chances of being followed up - minus The Duel which, of course, was already getting a followup before the series even released.

All in all, I mean it when I say this was my favorite of all of the shorts. It, pound for pound, has everything that I found enjoyable about this set of films all in one package, ever interesting means of approaching the Star Wars universe that I was looking for, all of the interesting ways of looking at situations we already know that I was hoping for, with a set of endearing characters on top of it.

If we can get more stuff like Lop and Ochō in the future, I would be more than happy. If we can get more Lop and Ochō specifically, all the better for it. I also mean it when I say I hope people make some noise for this one. It’s worth it.

[amwritingmeta]

15x20: New Beginnings

I’d like to speak of the cause and effect of the ending.

I agree that the execution could’ve been skewered just a tiny bit and it would’ve made the overall impression more palatable, but assuming production was at the very least hampered by COVID restrictions, we know that this wasn’t actually Dabb’s final vision. It’s what we’ve got, though, and it still leaves us with a lot of tying up of narrative threads. 

How?

We have a final image of Dean and Sam together and I understand why this is irksome and why it feels regressive. Here’s why I think it actually isn’t:

Dark Side of the Moon tells us that Dean and Sam are most definitely not soulmates meant to share a Heaven. Dean’s memories are focused on Sam while Sam’s memories are completely devoid of Dean. Dean also needs to find Sam (and is helped to do so by Cas). Ie. they brothers are not in a shared Heaven, the way Jimmy and Amelia and Mary and John are highlighted to be.

We also know that Heaven’s system is basically a prison for the mind of the souls of those who have died, right? You get stuck in your best memories. This is simply Heaven’s idea of benevolence, because Heaven, and the angels, have never understood how much choice and free will matter to humanity.

So. No matter how much Dean and Sam succeeded in saving the world throughout our narrative, they were still always headed for forced separation and this prison for their minds and being filed away behind one of those white doors, in essence ceasing to exist, and the point of all their trials and tribulations would have been what? Living a long and happy life, only to die and go to what Dean wouldn’t have chosen for himself with a gun to his head? Eternally brainwashed into thinking he’s content? 

Can you think of anything more horrible to be waiting at the end of their road?

So the point to this ending we got is, to me, gloriously clear and it’s this:

The journeys of these men, throughout this entire narrative, made the new Heaven possible. 

This new Heaven, where there’s freedom of choice and endless possibility for exploration. Where human souls are now granted an afterlife worth actually living, where everyone can reconnect with the people they’ve cared about, the people they’ve loved. 

(Buddhists have six Heavens and believe life exists on multiple planes meaning when you die you simply transcend to the next plane where there’s more living to be done) (Swedish children’s author Astrid Lindgren explored the death of two brothers through sacrifice and illness in her novel The Brothers Lionheart and in the mythology of this book the first Heaven one enters just after death is called Nangijala, and once you die in Nangijala you move onto Nangilima and so on) (etc.) 

What we get in the Supernatural mythos is that there’s no more prison for the mind. No more only soulmates get a shared Heaven: ie. family genuinely doesn’t end in blood.

So look at what this means for the entire structure of our narrative and our character journeys -->

The Road 

If Dean and Sam hadn’t been codependent, they wouldn’t have made those bad choices that brought Cas into the narrative. 

If Cas hadn’t been influenced by Dean to rebel and start making bad choices of his own, he never would’ve made Heaven fall apart by trying to stitch it together and teach angels free will and stepping into a leader role he wasn’t quite ready for, and he wouldn’t have begun on the journey that brought him right to the moment when he expressed his need of bringing back a win for Dean, and for himself.

That win, turns out, was Jack. 

Cas’ faith in Jack, Cas fighting for Jack, Cas feeling responsible and stepping into the Good Father Figure in order to keep his promise to Kelly and protect Jack was what led to Cas making a bad deal with the Empty, but that bad deal also left Cas with the opportunity to save Dean’s life when death was threatening to break down that door and kill them both.

The remarkable truth that’s added to this moment is that Cas’ journey has brought him to a place in his progression where he’s no longer afraid of his feelings, he’s no longer questioning them or thinking they mean a weakness he shouldn’t let define him, because he realises that what he needs isn’t Dean to love him back for that love to be real, to be valuable and valid. His fear of alienating Dean through loving him is the lie. That’s where his happiness stems from, him recognising and finally embracing this truth. 

Because the love he feels isn’t a weakness. It never was: it’s his strength. It’s always guided him, even when he didn’t realise it.

And the strength of it lets him tell Dean exactly how he sees him and that he loves him, and opening up to and being honest with himself is what allows Cas to integrate with his shadow. The Empty takes him, but Cas is at peace, because he no longer fears and avoids his unconscious, he no longer needs to engage in suppression and repression of his emotions, and so his shadow no longer holds any sway over him, which is a fact given to us by how Cas’ ending in this narrative means him being free of the Empty. 

A freedom that never would have been granted, never would have been possible, without his faith in, his fighting for and his protection of Jack.

Cas’ words to Dean makes Dean begin his final steps into integration as well, meaning Cas’ declaration of love directly affects the outcome of the fight against Chuck, because Dean wants Cas back, but it’s not everything he’s focused on, since it shouldn’t be everything he’s focused on. 

It can’t be, since there are bigger fish to fry, and because of Cas’ view of him, Dean is opening up to his true self, to trust, to having faith in himself, which allows for a letting go of the need for control and thinking it’s all on him and everything is his responsibility or everyone dies. 

Thanks to this, we get Dean in teamwork mode with Sam and Jack, the three of them together figuring out how to manipulate Michael into bringing Chuck to them in order for Jack to de-power him. 

Dean’s integration is complete, and given to us through the symbology of his inner child (Jack) sucking the power out of his shadow (Chuck) and is then underlined by the ego (Dean) telling his de-powered shadow that it’s to be forgotten. Dean’s shadow, which has fed on and also fuelled the need in Dean for repression and suppression, no longer holds any sway over him. 

And Dean’s understanding and embracing of his true identity is highlighted by how he refuses to kill Chuck. 

Because that’s not who Dean is: he’s not a killer. He’s internalised Cas’ view of him. Cas’ truth making way for Dean’s own truth to shine a light. 

Dean is done with self-denial. And self-destruction. 

Which is what 15x20 is all about: that lack of self-destruction and the finality of goodbye.

Because Dean being shown to accept the finality of the loss of Cas has such direct bearing on Dean’s ability to accept the finality of saying goodbye to his brother.

The Greatest Love Story Ever Told

All of this, all of it, is because of and thanks to Cas’ LOVE for Dean. 

Thanks to the moment that allowed Cas to express it and to SEE Dean for who he truly is. 

Thanks to the moment of Cas’ integration we get Dean integrating.

And it’s so beautiful that it’s the loss of Cas this time that allows for Dean to do this, because he’s always plummeted into despair without Cas. His progression has slowed to a crawl without Cas in the narrative. His entire sense of self, his entire source of faith in anything, being drained out of him. 

This has been romantic and lovely and fabulous, but it’s also so unhealthy. 

Dean being shown to mourn, to want Cas back, to expect Cas at the end of that phone call, only for him to move away from the need and want to have Cas back, recognising that it’s possible Cas’ return is now an improbability and choosing to look to the future, because now he’s feeling worthy of a future, this is such an important detail for the love story to move from profound bond territory...

(where Cas used the bond forged by Heaven as an excuse for why he kept hanging around Dean) (Dean was his charge, his mission, he was meant to protect him) (a view shattered by Hester in S8) (and properly dismantled by the human!Cas arc) (at least the way I see it because that’s where Cas got that love he feels brought into actual stark relay like oh fuck I’m in love with him)

...to the healthy, selfless, loving side to that bond, which isn’t about self-deception, miscommunication and fear, but about blowing all of that apart, letting feelings flow freely, opening up to the truth of them, the strength of them, and these two men being able to finally free themselves of all those past doubts by embracing their true identities.

I realise there’s frustration that we only got part-textual Destiel. I felt it too. But I never expected canon Destiel. I hoped and wished, but up until Cas’ declaration of love, I questioned whether the studio would be onboard, and it turns out they weren’t okay with making SPN an overtly queer narrative. Was Cas’ declaration of love baiting or BYG? I hope my meta reading in this post will tell you how little I feel it was.

So then. Letting go of the initial shock of it all, I’m leaning on what I did expect: the love story so strongly highlighted in the subtext that we were all left with zero doubt that we’d been seeing it there for a reason.

Subtext is part of the text. For any writer worth their salt, subtext is more important than the surface text. Text without subtext is flat and dull. The text we’ve been dealing with for fifteen years has always had layers upon layers.

These final three episodes, as I’ve already pulled on above, brings it in spades and our subtext tells us plainly:

Dean Winchester is in love with Castiel, just as much as Castiel is in love with him. 

How does it tell us this plainly?

Cas is finally able to integrate because he opens up to the truth he’s carried with him for so long: his love for Dean. Unconditional. He no longer needs Dean to say it back, to validate the emotion, Cas is realising that happiness in the feeling itself, in acknowledging it and allowing it free rein. Cas moves into making peace with himself, for himself.

Now, we know Cas loves Dean because, well, declared, but why is it plain that Dean loves Cas back?

Firstly, because of the episode being entirely structured around people in love losing one half. That’s as much of an in-our-faces use of mirroring as underlining of the subtextual love story that we’ve ever gotten from Berens. 

Even stronger than the mirroring, for me, is the fact that Cas’ love for Dean allows Dean to finally move into integration. 

Cas’ words infuse Dean with a sense of self-worth that immediately paves way for him beginning to have all that faith in himself that Cas has always represented to him. The build from 15x18 through to 15x20 is like a gentle moving away from Cas being the external source of Dean’s faith, to Cas’ love and expressed faith revealing Dean’s internal source of faith in himself.

A source which has been suppressed and repressed out of a whole layer of different fears, which have in turn brought on the belief that a toxic masculinity armour was necessary for survival and that all feelings are weaknesses, but because of Cas’ faith in him, because of Cas’ expressed love, Dean is able to no longer need an external source of faith, because he’s now internalised and embraced the truth of what makes him who he is.

Just like Cas is shown to do, we’re given Dean recognising that the love he feels isn’t a weakness, but a strength, because Cas’ words is about Dean’s capacity for LOVE. It’s this love that takes away Chuck’s ability to tell Dean who he is. 

No one can tell you who you are -- you choose who to be. 

For his entire life, right up until that moment in that room with Cas, facing death (literally) all Dean can see himself as is someone who can do nothing and who knows nothing except how to give into his anger (he’s never been able to control it because he’s never recognised the source of it) and find something to kill.

This view of himself has been constantly whispered to him and reinforced by his unconscious, his Shadow-side, who’s kept Dean thinking that he doesn’t have good things last for him, ever, so he can’t have love in his life or a future to look forward to, because he doesn’t deserve it. A perpetual emotional roundabout where his Shadow-side has stayed in complete control.

One might argue this has always been the source of Dean’s anger: his inability to dare open up to his true identity that has kept the toxic masculinity armour in place, kept the performance up, kept him more often than not lying even to himself of who he is and who he wants to be, because he never felt there was a choice in the matter. 

Truly allowing himself to recognise and feel all that longing for love that’s been like a tight ball in his chest always, meant giving into weakness meant getting Sammy killed or himself or both of them meant failure.

But the only way to beat back and conquer our Shadow-side is by recognising and accepting our flaws and no longer feeling unworthy because of them.

That’s what Cas’ words and his love does for Dean. 

That’s right there in the subtext: Dean, even in the moments before certain death, being unable to open up to the truth of who he is and what really drives him; Dean needing his external source of faith, this man that he’s loved for a long time, to tell him that how he sees himself is wrong, to afford him a different view of himself, to bring the truth to light so that Dean can finally feel worthy it, because Dean couldn’t beat his Shadow back on his own, his dark view of himself was much too ingrained for that.

It had to be Cas. The narrative tells us it always had to be Cas. And so it is Cas who saves Dean from himself. And saves Dean’s life. And saves Dean from having to spend his afterlife in a prison of the mind.

Love wins.

And Cas only ever entered the narrative due to Dean’s need to Protect Sammy at all costs, because that has always been such a huge identity marker for Dean, his entire self-understanding and sense of self tied to whether he can keep his brother alive and out of harms way, which, as he grows up, then translates itself into Dean’s enormous capacity for selflessness and caring about others. 

His core trait was never weapon, it was shield. It was protector. Stemming directly from all that love he carries around and can’t allow himself to feel because it means weakness and that means death and that means he’s failed and is worthless and around it has always gone.

And would always have gone, too. If not for Cas.

Love fucking WINS.

I mean. DAMN! It’s so gorgeous.

(this angle still holds even if Dean in any way was ever meant to actually reciprocate in that scene, because it’s made so clear to us how Cas never expects Dean to say it back) (if Dean is meant to say it back and the love story is meant to be textual that would be mind-blowing head-exploding joyful news) (but it doesn’t change the subtextual move away from unhealthy holding on to healthy letting go) (the textual would only ever strengthen the fact that we have subtextual confirmation) 

But what about...?

Yeah, but what about that ending then? What about the last twenty minutes? What about all the focus on the brothers? 

Was the execution of the finale perfect? No, I wouldn’t say it was, but I could see, when I watched the finale again on the 21st, that there was efforts made to make something good enough. Something geared toward tying our narrative up as best as possible with the means presented to Dabb. 

I understand why people feel stuff is missing.

Because stuff is missing. Dabb told us they had to change the ending, that they were supposed to have a whole lot of people back to populate Dean’s Heaven. Found family galore. Misha said the same thing. They couldn’t (I’m not going to speculate on why, it’s just clear that they couldn’t) and so the ending had to be modified. To me that’s fairly plain in how it’s structured.

Did they have to focus so hard on the brothers?

Well... given the restrictions, I think this was the only way to end this narrative, because the story has always been centred on these two brothers and the bad choices and sacrifices they’ve made, and the blood, sweat and tears they’ve shed in order to remain together.

Their absolute inability to let the other go actually kick-started their onscreen journey.

Because this is a story about dependency, and letting go of that dependency to make way for a healthy, equal coexisting; which is what, to me, that final shot is all about.

Should Cas and Jack have been there? Sure! There will always be stuff missing from the final two eps that I’ll wonder about. Like, if Cas was never meant to be in the story (as per Misha he was but let’s say for argument’s sake) then why didn’t Dean just ask, very calmly, in 15x19 of Jack our New God: “What about Cas?” and then Jack our New God could’ve answered gently, but plainly: “He’s at peace.” Simple. Why didn’t we get an establishing of Eileen as Sam’s wife? And it would’ve helped so much to have Charlie and Stevie reestablished in the visual narrative as alive, however plain it is to me that Jack will have brought them back with everyone else who were away-ed by Chuck.

Sure, there could’ve been more.

But what I love about that final shot of the brothers is this canonical fact:

It would not have been possible without Cas. 

Cas learning and growing and integrating to the point that he knows exactly how to fix the home he’s broken more than once, and how to bring free will, at long last, to Heaven, to the benefit of humanity.

And Dean’s little sideways smile (his “I want this smile”) when Cas is mentioned, when he realises that Heaven is different thanks to Cas, well, isn’t that just the darnedest thing? 

*forever headcanon that Dean was expecting to see Cas again somewhere somehow he just didn’t know when and now... here Cas is* 

When Cas went, it took a little time to adjust, but Dean let go of Cas and didn’t make a deal and didn’t go crazy or self-destructive, there was no nosediving into depression, because Cas’ words made those types of coping mechanisms no longer necessary. 

Dean drinks and indulges at the start of 15x19 because he’s still processing, but by 15x20 Cas’ words have been fully internalised, Dean has integrated, and he’s looking to the future. Set on living, because otherwise he’d render Cas’ sacrifice meaningless.

Dean’s death has zero blaze and glory to it. He didn’t expect this day to be the day. But it is. And he accepts it. And because he does, because he’s open and honest with his brother, because he tells Sam all the words he needs Sam to carry with him, gives Sam all the faith in himself that Cas left Dean with, he’s brought to a Heaven that has been readied for him by the love of his life. 

Cas is right there. And he’s been waiting. And he’s used his time well, because Heaven is now the afterlife that Dean deserves. The ultimate salvation. Love and happiness and companionship and LOVE LOVE LOVE. Forever.

If that isn’t the biggest reward for the both of them after everything they’ve been through, I don’t even know what is!

Sam arriving is a given, but I have to say I genuinely do not see Sam as living his life in pain and grief. He’s happy. He loves his kid. He’s a good father. Just like Dean was, and Bobby, and Cas. All the Good Father figures threaded through 15x20. And this narrative has been about these two brothers. It ending on them together, at peace, feels fitting. 

Yeah, but shouldn’t Dean have gotten to live his life?

Sure, this is my interpretation 100%, but Dean’s death feels softly ironic and fitting because it is unexpected. 

I can’t hit on this enough: there’s no blaze and glory.

Dean was ready to make the most of life, but through accepting death and accepting separation from Sam, Dean is brought into the same moment Cas was brought into, a moment of recognising what’s important, where Dean opens up fully to vulnerability and hands over his trust and faith in that Sam will be fine without him, which pushes Sam into the same integration that Cas’ words afforded Dean. Voicing trust and faith will do that for a person.

And Sam’s arc was always dependent, narratively, on the progression of Dean’s arc, so it makes a lot of narrative sense that this needed to happen for Sam to get pushed out of the nest and forced into having proper faith in himself. Because there’s no other choice. 

He’s left doing what he has to and it results in a balance between that family life he’s always wanted (foreshadowed in 15x01) and staying aware of and raising his son to be aware of the reality of their world, given to us via the tattoo on Dean Jr.’s wrist. (oofta I wish he’d had a different name but since everything had to be done in the visual narrative it’s the easiest way to connect us with Dean still being present in Sam’s life so I get it)

There’s also that romantic in me that feels as though Dean is greatly rewarded for all his suffering and struggles, for all those years of living his life in fear and feeling as though he doesn’t matter by not only bringing him into a Heaven he made possible, but by reuniting him with the love of his life and this time they’re equally immortal, equally made of light, equally eternal, equally integrated and balanced and ready to accept all that love and happiness.

That just makes me fucking happy. For them both.

Bring on the New Beginnings

The fact that the narrative has opened itself up to being interpreted as somehow glorifying death or saying that happiness can only be found in death is distressing, but I hope that the threads I’ve pulled on here gives enough of a basis for me to say how I truly feel like this is simplifying why the choice was made for Dean to die.

It’s not about happiness only being found in death. 

It’s not about devaluing living your life, it’s about the idea, the soft hope, even the narrative promise that death, for our characters, not for humanity as a whole, but for these specific men, who have always avoided it and made bad deals and feared separation and been brought into a crisis of identity (Dean because he doesn’t know who he is without Protect Sammy as purpose and Sam because he genuinely and continuously seem convinced that he can’t hunt without Dean to lead the way) whenever death has touched them have now reached a point where the separation is an accepted part of life.

And this acceptance is rewarded: because the separation isn’t forever.

Death is not the end. It makes way for new beginnings. For all three of TFW. Actually all four, because of course Jack is included in this endgame.

There’s a transformation that takes place, thanks to them integrating. They get to transcend what’s come before and move onto the next plane of existence together. 

Together.

TFW 3.0!

Death on this show has always been about a moment of rebirth, of entering a different leg of their journeys.  

I don’t find it out of place at all that the ultimate moment of death for our characters mean just that. 

Not an ending, but a new beginning.

In conclusion

Could there have been more? As said, yes. Absolutely yes. But I doubt Dabb isn’t aware of that. I don’t think this is the ending he originally intended. It might have been a brothers focused ending, because I think Dean was always meant to die and go to Heaven, but Dean’s Heaven was meant to be a celebration of found family. 

The subtext of this narrative is what I’ve been reading and what I’ve been hooked on for four years, and what I’ll continue to be hooked on for the rest of my life, I’m fairly sure. I wish it could be celebrated, the way it always has been, the way we’ve always known to look deeper.

I hoped Supernatural would turn out to be a vehicle for overt representation. I always hoped that, and believe that was what the writers wanted. The fact that we didn’t get overt bisexual Dean and Destiel as unquestionable canon was distressing to me too and I’ll always think of this ending as a missed opportunity and I wish the CW would learn and fucking do better already. 

I understand the frustration, I understand the anger, I just wish we could all look at the richness of this ending and everything it says about the narrative, about our subtext, about our love story, about our character journeys, and lean into the treasury of it.

And omfg we got Cas as canonically queer. 

We got a main character on our show that is overt representation, on a journey towards a moment where he gets to express love and hope and clarity and this in turn moving through and enabling the integration of Dean and ultimately of Sam as well.

Truth begetting truth. Happiness begetting happiness. And love saving the day.

So, my friends, I will say this: saying that all the writing is bad, or claiming that there’s no depth, nothing to pull on, that it all just plain sucked, that doesn’t quite cut it. These three final episodes, just as any episode ever of this goddamn show, contain all of those layers and layers, especially when looked at together and certainly when taken into the context of the show as a whole.

And yes, you are, of course, more than welcome to your own interpretation! 

To finish I’ll quote Bruce Almighty: 

Lovelovelovelovelovelovelove!! 

[icy-hxt]

can you tell me what you think about the kids at 1a?

hi anon, I'm sorry that I took so long to answer this, when I saw your ask I felt really lazy, because there's too many people in the class lol

this is going to be a long post, since we have 20 characters to cover, so I'm putting it under the cut

okay, first of all I want to say that I don't hate any of the kids at 1a besides mineta, BUT, I do have a feeling of indifference towards at least half of them and do dislike some, I always thought that the story would been benefited if there were less people in the classes, since hori would've been able to develop them better, so don't expect me to talk a lot about everyone. also, don't take everything that I say too seriously, this is not a character analysis, I'm just doing it for fun.

anyway, the order that I'm using to list them is their seating arrangement in the class, so let's start

yuga aoyama: I already said this here before but I really like aoyama, he's ridiculous in the best way possible, he feels like a character that horikoshi took away from ouran high school club or something. since the chapter where he and deku became friends were released I felt like he deserved more screentime, because his backstory about him thinking of himself as different than the other kids in the class because of his quirk being "defective" is really interesting, I always wanted to see more of his friendship with deku and he overcoming his fears (since he was shown to be easily frightened)

mina ashido: I LOVE mina, I think that her design is so cool and her personality is really likable, when we had the kirishima flashback and we saw her protecting her friends from machia even though she was scared too was the moment that I decided that we deserved to see more of her in the story, I really liked to see she having a bigger role for a female character in a shonen, I wasn't too bad in the war but I still want more

tsuyu asui: okay, this is going to be controversial because I feel like everyone likes her, but I feel really indifferent towards her, maybe I was influenced by one of my friends that really doesn't like her but since that scene where she says that going to rescue bakugo is the same as acting like villains I started to not care about her all that much, and yes, I know that she admitted that she was wrong and everything but yeah, I don't really click with her personality (but I don't hate her, please don't be mad at me kdbdgsusj)

tenya iida: ah, what a respectable little man iida is, I really like him, I think that the way that he take everything so seriously is hilarious, like him acting super dramatically in their exams to be as similar as possible to his vision of what a villain is. I really like how he grew since the stain arc and how he decided to be a hero that prioritizes the safety of others in detriment to fighting the villains. I'm really happy that he became the focus of the story lately and that he was the one who could hold deku's hand, I want him to have a bigger role in the story for now, maybe even encountering with stain again and showing to him that he's now a great hero

ochaco uraraka: I love her personality, she's really cute, and her fight with bakugo at the beginning of the story was a highlight to me back then, but, I feel like her character became too much attached to deku after aoyama made her realize that she likes him, almost felt like her personality was gone and her only defining feature was having a crush on him, anyway, thank god that apparently she's going to have importance right now in the story because she's too much of a cool character to become just the romance interest for the male lead

mashirao ojiro: denki playing with his tail is cute, I think that is funny how horikoshi always describes him as the plain one, it was cool when he refused to participate in the sports festival because he didn't felt like he deserved

denki kaminari: oh this sweet dumbass, I love him, he's so funny and cute, I think that is that funniest thing how he just decided to call bakugo "kacchan" and is super overly friendly with him and bakugo just lets him, I actually don't think that he's "stupid" as part of the fandom seems to think, I strongly believe that people can be smart in their own ways, maybe he's not the brightest in math for example but he already showed to be able to come up with strategies, I feel like denki has a lot of anxiety inside of him because of his quirk, but i also feel like he's really genuine in trying to be a hero, overall I really like him, he's really sweet

eijiro kirishima: this swee- I mean, super manly man is amazing, I feel like kirishima is for bnha what rock lee was for naruto, I really really really like him, I love his personality and I love even more his backstory, he's really a great person and he deserves all the love that he get from the fandom, I hope that we're going to see even more of him in the future

koji koda: he's adorable, his voice is really adorable the japanese dub, his quirk is like a disney princess

rikido sato: he bakes, I like cakes and pies, we would've been best friends

mezo shoji: since I saw that hori said that he uses his mask because people are afraid of him I'm impatiently waiting for his face to be shown, and if he doesn't look like a junji ito monster or something I'm going to be pretty disappointed, anyway, I like his personality, he was really cool at the forest arc (I clearly don't remember the arcs names, I'm sorry lol), and I feel like he could have a bigger role in the story if hori finally decides to address the prejudice against people with mutant quirks

kyoka jiro: she kind of reminds me of a girl that used to bully me in middle school because of the way that she treats denki but I still like her lol I liked how she learned that is okay liking to sing and music in general and being a hero at the same time, because after all a lot of people were saved by music and/or their favorite artists, but since I find her quirk so cool I wanted to she her fighting more

hanta sero: he's funny, even funnier than denki, he has a really relatable sense of humor and I love him for that, his quirk is really cool, but I feel kind of bad for him because deku now has practically the same one and he's not the only spiderman in the story anymore (his quirk being similar to spiderman was actually what made me like him in the first place because peter is my favorite hero ever)

fumikage tokoyami: my 12yo emo self shakes inside of me every time that I see him, anyway, I really like him, how would I not? he has a bird head, he's nice without being overly friendly and dark shadow is really cute, I don't really remember everything that happened in the war but I remember him saying to hawks that he believes in him, so I really wanted to see him frustrated at his mentor because of what he did to twice please horikoshi address the consequences of twice's death, I'm tired of waiting

shoto todoroki: ah my angel, shoto was the reason why I started reading the manga back in 2015, I knew that he was going to be my favorite just by seeing his character design. I love shoto, I want him to become the happiest person in the world because he really deserves it, I know that everyone thinks that deku is what an ideal hero looks like but o me it is shoto, he's kind, sweet, forgiving, has a heart made of gold and is just genuinely a good person, I could talk about him for a whole week without pause and still find more things to compliment about him so let's move on before I write over 10000 words about how much I love him

tooru hagakure: she... exists...

katsuki bakugo: while shoto is my favorite, I have to admit that bakugo has the best character development in the hero side of the story, I used to hate him at the beginning of the series but now I love him, a lot, he shows that horikoshi knows how to write a compelling redemption arc if he planned it since the beginning, I love that he started only having "fight" points at the entrance exam for ua to now having his first priority at saving people, bakugo is other that I could talk about for hours so let's move on

izuku midoriya: I like deku when he's not putting his nose at the todofam business, he's a good kid who needs some self esteem urgently, the way that he never seemed to care about his own well being always made me nervous, even though I never felt like he was in real danger, he's the mc for a reason, to summarize: I like him personality wise but some of the narrative choices that hori made for him are not my favorites

minoru mineta: I don't care, I hope for him to vanish from existence

momo yaoyorozu: she's the stereotypical anime girl with glasses (but without glasses in this case), I like her personality, she's really cute, her quirk is neat and she's super smart but, everytime that she puts her hero costume on... I feel super uncomfortable... this is not her fault of course but I think that I would like her even more if she was less sexualized

I could write more if I take more time to think, but I'm not going to do that today, if you want to know my opinion about other characters or something more specific about the kids feel free to send me other ask

also, I'm sorry if there's any atrocious grammar mistakes on this, I didn't reviewed the text and wrote just what I had in my head in the moment at four am