#het!jaytim

[bee-a-garbage-shipper]

JayTim Fic Rec List

Rooftops and Bookshops By Bi_Bats [Complete]

“You would do it again,” Tim concluded, sighing, his tone bitter.

Jason knew he wouldn’t. He didn’t think he could do it again. He sidestepped the question, tightening his hands around Tim.

“I’m worried about you,” he said, softly, and Tim heard every bit of the pain and hurt Jason kept so carefully hidden away.

He’d always thought it must have been easy for Jason to leave, since he seemed to just fall off the face of the planet, ignoring his calls, ignoring him.

He didn’t like being wrong.

Know Yourself By Bi_Bats [WIP]

“Don’t act like you don’t care about him," Jay snapped.

“You don’t fucking know me.” Jason pushed away from where he’d been leaning, his stance suddenly much less casual. It didn’t hide the way his ears had gone red, though.

“You’re still me. I know when we’re full of shit, alright?”

“Fuck you.”

“Fuck you.”

When Jay gets dropped in the wrong universe, he goes to the only person he knows will help him: Tim.

Gotham Ghoul By SapphyWatchesYouSleep (JupiterMelichios) [Complete]

Jason thought being put together out of spare parts meant he was the world's only human-ghoul hybrid. That was, until a child turned up on the Manor doorstep claiming to be Bruce's son. A Tokyo Ghoul AU

When the Lost are Welcomed Home By homeforthemissing [Abandoned]

Tim found Bruce in the time stream, but since leaving to find him, Tim has mostly disappeared from the family. He has minimal contact with them, excluding Jason. Tim brought Jason back into the Bat-fold, but will someone bring him back in before its too late?

In which Tim is an Omega and hiding it, this can only end one way.

Canticulum (FF | AO3) By ryssabeth (FF | AO3) [Complete]

The baby that was to be named Timothy Jackson Drake was born small and gray. But he had been born with music in him. The man that becomes Timothy Drake-Wayne is a disciple of silence.

Sortis (FF | AO3) By ryssabeth (FF | AO3) [WIP]

It is fate that brings them together, yet it is fate that tears them apart.

Throughout his long life, Tim has watched Jason come and go, live and die, all while he remains the same, never changing.

Fragmentum (FF | AO3) By ryssabeth (FF | AO3) [Complete]

Everyone has a breaking point. Tim has reached his. And he has succumbed to it.

Praetextus By ryssabeth (FF | AO3) [WIP]

The darkness closes in on him, smothering tightly. Tim doesn't know if he can handle being blind.

Don't Touch My Boy By MySecretStories [Complete]

Jason and Tim's relationship is purely out of convenience, and they know that.

But when Ra's al Ghoul decides he wants another heir from the "perfect mate", it forces their hand to make decisions about the two of them.

Magic Gave Me Robin By Cy_kun [WIP]

He opens his eyes, and stares up at the canopy of the four poster bed he's in. It takes a second, his vision is a bit blurry, but it clears up quick enough.

Two seconds.

Three seconds.

Four seconds.

Part of Jason keeps the count going, while the rest of him kind of just...seizes. Because he knows this canopy. He knows the the posts it's attached to. He—fuck—he knows the notch in the bottom left post he'd put in it when he'd stolen one of Bruce's batarangs when he was twelve and thrown it around like the stupid kid he'd been.

This was Jason's room.

Or, the one where Jason get's zapped with magic, wakes up in his teenage body, and decides to let the timeline know exactly how fucked it is. He also becomes the president of the Tim Drake Appreciation Club.

The Fate's Designs (Are Not For Our Eyes) By galkyrie [WIP]

"It's funny, Tim thinks, how he never wonders about his soulmate until he's bleeding out under the stars."

A story about soulmates, and how finding their way to one another was never going to run smooth.

Break Your Throne, Cut Your Hair By dukeaubergine [Complete]

Ra’s thought he could force Tim into marriage with an ancient magical artifact. He didn’t account for the magic recognizing his daughter’s protégé as a potential alternate groom.

Tim and Jason just have to survive the one-month engagement period without getting kidnapped, killed, or outed as fakers to the press. Then survive any assassins gate-crashing the wedding. Piece of cake, right?

…This might be easier if they’d actually tell the rest of the Bats what’s really going on.

Even If It Doesn't Make Sense By EdmundPevensiesQueen [WIP]

Tim had given up trying to lie to himself about how he felt about Jason, hating himself for his childhood hero-worship/crush on the second Robin for coming back. He knew the whole thing was pointless – Jason barely tolerated him, he knew that – so it was better to just acknowledge the feelings, process them, and get rid of them. The last time he’d had feelings for Jason, suppressing them hadn’t worked despite years of trying.

So here he was, asking Jason about what consoles he had because unfortunately this was as close as Jason was going to come to asking him on a date (oh my god, a Bat Kids hangout was the closest he was getting to a date - Damian was right, Tim was pathetic), and there was no way in hell Tim was going to say no, even if he hadn’t slept in over 24 hours. Besides, he knew he could easily make it to 48 if he had coffee.

If You Got Love To Get Done By dukeaubergine [Complete]

Tim didn’t expect to make so many big choices about her future at seventeen, but it’s just been that kind of a year. She wants to do better than her parents did, but can she really balance obligations to a kid and to the world?

Where is He? By lover_of_blue_roses [Complete]

Red Hood breaks into Teen Titan tower to terrorize his Replacement. He wants to make the Batman suffer, not for letting him die, but for letting the Joker live, and this is the best way to do that. However when he finds the new Robin… he's an omega in heat.

Tower of Fantasy By zabbaz [Complete]

Tim expects to have the tower all to himself this weekend. Why not indulge in one of his favorite sexual fantasies? Surely it won't end with him trying to fight a villain with a vibrator inside him…

Stay By darkdecay [Complete]

Tim and Jason think they've been hatefucking. Must be why Jason is willing to try anything to stay the night with Tim.

Nice To Meet You Again By TheLonelyRose [Complete]

When Jason first met Kitten, he was trying to stop Catwoman from stealing some fancy gem with Batman... Again. Ever since then, he would cross paths occasionally with the little girl, blossoming a friendship that would last for years. But, then he died. And, then he came back. And that little girl wasn't so little anymore.

Pain is Temporary By ole_ander [Complete]

After spending a year in a deep depression following Bernard's death, Tim is sent back to Gotham to train with the infamous Red Hood, Jason Todd. Evidently, Dick didn't do his research, because these two don't get along. And sometimes they get along too well. Either way, there's not a lot of crime fighting being done.

Stray Cat Strut By chibi_nightowl [Complete]

"There once was a little boy named Stray who became best friends with a Robin…" -OR- "I doubt you arranged this little meeting to discuss the finer points of the fashion disasters that are Gotham’s capes." Another low laugh and Red Hood took a cautious step forward. "I wouldn’t call that cat suit a disaster. You’ve certainly made the look your own." Stray wanted to snarl and settled for baring his teeth. "You could say that. What do you want from me, Hood?" Red Hood held his hands out in a placating gesture. "Nothing much. I just need you to get me into Arkham. I’m going to kill the Joker."

Sweet Treats By chibi_nightowl [Complete]

Jason smiles again. “You really like a challenge, don’t you?” “I love a good challenge,” Tim agrees, grinning back at his hero. “So do I.” Jason hesitates, then reaches out and runs his thumb over Tim’s cheek. It comes back red, which Tim swears could probably be from the amount of blood rushing to his face because Jason just touched him. “You always covered in frosting?” For once, Tim’s brain lines up with his mouth and he says something that sounds clever. “Only on special occasions.”

The Knight's Quest By chibi_nightowl [Complete]

Sir Timothy Drake never wanted to be a knight. But when his parents send him off on a quest to slay a dragon, what else was he to do? Of course, said dragon has his own thoughts on the matter and his counterproposal is much more enticing than a fiery death.

Masquerade (Whose Face is Behind the Mask?) By chibi_nightowl [Complete]

Every so often, someone would take it into their heads that a masquerade ball would be a fantastic idea and make it into the biggest event of the year. Sometimes, they were a smashing hit. And other times…things just got smashed.

The Dog Days of Summer By chibi_nightowl [Complete]

"Tim?" Jason asks cautiously. It's possibly the first time he has ever used his replacement's first name. Out loud at least. Or where he could hear him. Another whine and the big black dog opens an eye, gazing warily up at Jason. "Okay, you're awake. Not exactly sure what the protocol is here but if you know you're Tim Drake, whine twice for me."

The Accountant By chibi_nightowl [WIP]

The last thing Tim needed was to get involved with someone who worked for Gotham’s meanest crime lord—or was him. Either way, getting into bed with the Red Hood was a really bad idea.

Courting Disaster By chibi_nightowl [Complete]

The JayTim Mr. & Mrs. Smith-inspired AU you didn't know you wanted. When Tim and Jason meet in their civilian guises after their exit plans go wrong, it's lust at first sight. It's even worse when Wraith and the Red Hood cross paths for the first time. Sparks, knives, and bullets fly in this story of love, lust, attempted murder, and--most importantly--revenge.

Sanctuary By chibi_nightowl and PoisonBasil [Complete]

Jason has a brief moment to notice he has blue eyes that match the sky overhead when his soul wrenches, reaching out to snag and entwine with Tim’s. What. The. FUCK? Tim blinks quickly, brows narrowing as he takes note that something is happening but not sure what. But Jason does. He’s a dragon born and bred, he knows what this call is, the throbbing pulse he now feels alongside his own. Stories told to him by his parents before he was stolen from them are coming to life and all he wants is to scream his pain all over again. A soul bond. His soulmate is a fucking human.

A Stray Cat Surrounded By Bats By three_milks [WIP]

When Tim Drake's parents die, he is left in the care of billionaire Bruce Wayne. Tim will have to manage to keep his life as the notorious thief Stray a secret while trying to deal with everything that comes with living with Batman and Robin. He hopes that keeping his identity a secret isn't as difficult as it seems.

It's Written In The Stars By flavouess_fiction [WIP]

It was on the second day of first grade that Tim Drake understood that the pattern of rust-coloured stars on the palm of his hand meant more than just a birthmark. After a soulmate dies within a year the other half is expected to die or get themselves committed, Tim thought he'd moved past all of it until it was staring him in the face.

Trading Places By BeautyInTheLibrary [WIP]

11:59 PM It was a simple night, it was going so well, Jason was soaring on the wings of his name sake over the city he's lived in his whole life. While the civilians were mooning over the idea of receiving their soulmate dream at midnight of their fifteenth birthday (or the less common experience of switching into their bodies) Jason had better things to do! He was Robin! And that made him magic~ 12:00 AM ...What the hell was he doing on a random roof top when he was just swinging on a grapple line? What was with this camera, why....why could he see himself through the lens! JayTim Week 2024 Day One: Wing

Bad Habits By BeautyInTheLibrary [Complete]

It felt like several minutes passed before anything did happen and what had happened was that Tim felt gloved fingers slide into his long hair and gather the strands painfully into the fist. The hand grasped and used the hair to pull Tim’s head up off the floor and the pain forced a gasp out of him before he could help it. It didn’t stop till Tim was sitting upright and then his head and back was forced into the wall that was behind him, the force of it enough to knock one more noise out of him. “Well aren’t you lucky?” A voice, a mechanical voice finally spoke and alarms went off in Tim’s head. Oh no…that sounded too familiar for comfort. “I just got the best deal on the local bird, bought you for a song, I hope you’re grateful.” - Tim never listened to the people around him pointing out his bad habits, like not getting enough sleep or taking care of himself in the least. He always ignored and it had been fine. Until it wasn't and now he was stuck in the last sort of situation he had ever wanted to himself and really it was his own fault. To be fair, he's never passed out on roof top like this before or been kidnapped just to be auctioned off.

Searching Faces By Take_Me_To_My_Fragile_Dreams [WIP]

"I need your help," Tim says. "I need -" again, the liquid sloshes in his cup. He releases it to rub his hands over the fabric of his pants. "I need your help." "Do you?" She is usually not the one approached for these sorts of things. Jason gets the calls, and Roy charms his way into information. She is merely a companion, one that most people stay away from. "What sort of help do you require, Tim Wayne?" There’s a flinch, so minute anyone else would have missed it. He lets out a harsh breath and grabs for his drink once more. He yanks his mask down in one swift motion and brings the straw to his lips. He drinks like someone who hasn’t had water in days, with a single minded determination Kori has seen plenty of men use to go at bottles in dark lit bars. His face is flushed. The red comes through in blotchy patches made worse by the stark white that splatters the lower left of his jaw. On his cheeks are two reddened slashes. They start at the corners of his lips and cut up towards his ears in diagonal lines. "Sanctuary," he says, when his cup is empty and his mask is up once more. "I seek sanctuary." - In the aftermath of Joker's torture, Tim runs to the only place left he can think of.

Moss & Minnie By impravidus [Complete]

"Fuck." "That’s not a nice word." Tim’s head snaps up, his weapon drawn immediately. Sitting criss cross applesauce on his bed is… a little girl? "Uh… how did you get in here?" Tim asks slowly. She gives him an inquisitive look, clearly unbothered by the situation, and points at the ceiling. "Through the portal." OR: When girl kid versions of Tim and Jason pop into their lives from another dimension, they have to learn how to be parents. After moving in together, co-parenting two little girls together, and accidentally forming a fake relationship, they somehow fall in love along the way.

The Bird and The Hood (FF | AO3) By Green4AllSeasons (FF | AO3) [WIP]

Jason Todd was the Robin that Tim Drake could never be. Sharp, ruthless, angry. Tim didn't know it was possible that he could hate another person so badly yet also desperately seek his approval. But then Jason died, and Tim was left to pick up the pieces. Now, nearly seven years later, Jason has returned with a mission. But he's different… Angrier. And Tim isn't so sure if he wants to know this Jason at all.

To See Through You By onesillygoose [Complete]

Jason and Tim realize that they are more alike than they thought. But they're both too stubborn to let the other one in. Can the two former Boy Wonders make things work between them? Or will pride get in the way?

Can I Steal A Kiss or Two? By stellewrites [Complete]

"Did you come with anyone tonight, Tim?" Tim nodded and looked around for a moment before he jerked his head over to a young alpha in the center of the room. The dark-haired alpha had a strong arm wrapped possessively around the waist of a blonde beta woman and Jason watched as Tim winced when she lent in to kiss the alpha. Jason winced in sympathy. That explains why the kid was necking the drinks like they were water. "Why don’t you stick with me for the rest of the evening, huh? I’ll be much better company than either of them." he ducked his head to speak directly into Tim’s ear. "I haven’t got eyes for any other beta or even a ‘mega tonight, just you. Promise." Jason grinned at the dark blush that spread down Tim’s neck. - Handmaids Tale-esc au with omega Tim finding his feet after being bought by alpha Jason and taken into his pack.

Time Bomb Town By Moxibustion (RyuuzaKochou) [Complete]

In a world of scientifically proven psychic abilities, the practitioners - the so-called Talents - are called on to serve the public good. This is never more true than in Gotham, where the Wayne Parapsychic Institute works diligently for justice and peace in what is otherwise a mecca of rogue Talents. Bruce Wayne is one of the most powerful Talents on record; a Prime. So are all his children. All, that is, except for Tim Drake; a winged donkey to their high-flying Pegasus. Fed up with the constant reminders that he will never be able to catch up to their flight into the stars and beyond, he leaves. Trying to put the shattered pieces of his life together, he comes across Jason Todd; former member of the Wayne Parapsychic Institute and a powerhouse in terms of Talent, alive in an asylum years after everyone assumed him dead. Tim is determined to help Jason find a way back. Jason might end up teaching him a way forward.

[zeroducks-2]

I have noticed that anti rhetoric seems to go against most of the old types of ships people would flock to in like 2008, Sasunaru is a ship of all time but Bakudeku is abusive. Even if there isn't anything wrong with a queer ship (can't be called pedo or incest) messy and angsty ships are treated as worse than super fluffy ones, and tbh this has kind of made me feel alienated from fandom.

I know that I repeat myself but it's true. You're right. The purity culture that antis employ is rooted in homophobia, which is why even the fluffiest gay ships get targeted 100% more than the "dark" het ships. If you ship Jaytim you're a freak of nature and you should repent, but if you ship Brubabs you're fine - mostly fine at least.

Because here's the thing. They started coming after the dark ships and the really heavy kinks, then they switched to just non-vanilla ships and mild kinks, then they expanded to any ship that has a vaguely "unhealthy" connotation (sometimes this unhealthy connotation is made up), and kink doesn't even need to be involved. They are starting to attack het shippers too - it doesn't happen as often but I do see people being harassed for shipping Sasunaru and Sasusaku, or Brubabs, or anything the casual anti dislikes really. The dynamic of laying out why a ship is pRoBLeMatiC, arguing how shipping is bad and makes you a bad person, seeped into fandom spaces of all kinds and is employed even by people who aren't antis themselves, because it got just so widespread. It's essentially the norm for a lot of people; they see a new ship and their first reaction is to dissect it to find reason to harass who ships it (see one of my mutuals who got bullied to hell and back for drawing punkflower because of course if you ship Miles and Hobie you're a pedophile, even if Hobie's official age has not been disclosed, and Miles is most certainly not a child).

The so called discourse will keep spreading. I know this sounds alarmist but there is no limit to anti mentality, it's kinda like how republicans take it out on trans people, then spread it to queer people in general, then go after the rights of women and children and if they could they'd abolish divorce. I'm pretty sure they will actually try depending on how the elections go next year. Antis are on the same path. Now we progressed to a point where het ships aren't safe anymore either, and some antis make the case that sex and nsfw content should not exist at all in any kind of media, fictional and transformative alike, not just the "toxic" representations of it.

I too feel alienated from fandom too because of that. It's an old adage, but fandom is supposed to be a safe space and it's just not that anymore (come to Aethy for a better experience btw, they really do have a policy to kick antis out if they bother people). Sure block the people you don't want to see, customize your own space, tailor it for yourself and all of that. But when you are a creator it's consistently harder, harassment is always around the corner especially when you're an artist. Especially because a website like tumblr directly caters to antis and censorship worshippers and does not by any means defend who's getting harassed.

[wellthatjusthappend]

Jaytim for Ship Bingo <3

I love them! They have so much potential. They can go either sugary sweet or dark and angsty and I love it.

That being said, for whatever reason a lot of the fics I read with them tend to make them very... Het. And not the interesting kind. Like gender roles 2.0 seme uke style. Which is very unfortunate.

So I love them. But I don't go looking for them.

[thattimdrakeguy]

This is NOT all about everyone but I have seen 3 types of Tim/Steph fan, 1- those people who hate Tim but still shipping them and saying Tim's team and friends should be all Steph's and then she should treat him bad. 2- People who wants to date Tim and saying he is hot so they relate to Steph(these are mostly grown ass women btw) and 3- the people who are calling everyone misogynistic and hating on mlm ships because of their het ship, and making shit posts about other ships and characters

I’ve also seen people say that because Tim isn’t gay in every ship that it’s homophobia.

I’ve also seen people fetishize how Tim would be a twink by turning him into what looks like a little girl.

There’s also been people I seen who turns Tim into a stereotypical nagging girl personality who constantly needs saved and simply needs a banging to feel better.

So before too many people get pissed. I wanna say that just because there’s annoying people in a shipping fandom. You shouldn’t be too worked up and feel bad for your ship, because there’s toxic people in every ship.

I mostly just described JayTim shippers there, which I think most people agree is pretty nasty despite being popular,

but you get the idea.

You aren’t the fandom at large, and you shouldn’t feel bad because worse people are making your ship seem bad.

Keep on rocking.

Just don’t be a twit about it.

--

It just so happens the TimSteph toxic people are shining their bright light into people’s eyes to spread the message of the ship for some reason.

I’m tired of people lying about them to make them seem better, I mean mostly just to glorify Steph but still.

Acting like they’re the end all be all.

Harassing people.

And just being creepy.

However, I just wanna let people know that if I caught TimKon people doing the same thing at the volume TimSteph people are, I’d still be pissed at them.

I’m not a full on team player. I’m closer to the guy at the stands realizing that a team is sucking harder. If TimKon people turned high level toxic, id be them I’m annoyed at.

So just wanted to say that as well.

[lullz]

I think it's really hypocritical how people diss on slash ships in the batfam, but fully support het ships in the batfam. Like, the same people who diss on the jaytim ship bc incest also ship dick/helena and tim/cass. One may argue that they are 'different cases', but how different is it when the het ship was actually raised together, while the slash ship just happened to be adopted by the same man, but on different periods in time (aka not raised together, and I don't think I need to explain the meaning of affective family here). Stop being hypocritical.

[barricadeofnargles]

Hi! for the fandom questions thing - C U T E

C. hmm... any het pairing really? I can’t seem to ship anything like that ^^’ or if I do, I like them as secondary pairings. Oh! I don’t really ship Izuna/ Tobirama. I kind of like them more as frenemies ^^

U. uhh.... Gansey/Blue from ‘The Raven Cycle’ and Shahrzad and Khalid from ‘The Wrath and the Dawn’ and dramione ^^

T. This is soo hard!! umm!!! Olivarry, Batlantern, sasunarusasu, jegulus, harry/tom, drarry, skysolo, madatobi, kagatobi, hashiobi, izuita, cherik, charles X/logan,  jaytim, jayroy, dicktiger, dickwally, kaldur/kon,  mikokushi, aaand i will stop while I have the chance ^^’ 

E. Oh yes! My last fic, ‘Sticky Situations’ was a madatobi crack fic ^^

[zeroducks-2]

I keep encountering antis in the wild so far my favorite one has been the one who was frothing over Jaytim shippers. "Just because they're not technically brothers"!

Friend they're not technically nor non-technically brothers. They weren't raised together. They don't have a brother dynamic.

"It's different from DickBabs and TimSteph!" Not really! You're just cherrypicking!

90% of antis use anti rhetoric to justify why their ship is better/more valid than another, not because they really care about things they deem immoral or whatever, and I think a lot of Fandom Discourse tends to miss that by a long shot.

Like more often than not it's just bitches digging for reasons why their OTP is the only ship that can be shipped, therefore if you ship something else You're Wrong and the ship you ship shouldn't even exist. They use arguments on morality and such because they're hard to argue with - lots of folks don't know what to say when they're faced with "don't ship X and Y cause it's harmful and abusive!", "you're hurting victims of SA and grooming by shipping X and Y!" - and what happens is that they get scared out of the ships/topics they like and stop engaging actively with fanworks. Sometimes they rationally or subconsciously realize that it works, so they end up even adopting the same rhetoric as it's really fucking convenient: being on the moral high horse is delicious because people feel like it automatically puts them in the category of the good guys, therefore everyone else is a bad guy and they can harass them and send them death threats, even if it's just about shipping fictional characters.

I've seen this happen in basically every single fandom I've been in since I was 12 (and I am Not Young™), and I've seen the most unexpected people use anti rhetoric while not being antis themselves, or even labeling themselves as proshippers, but they would still use anti arguments to "legitimize" their ship and claim how and why it was better than others in the same fandom. Instead of just... saying that one ship in particular is not for them. Tbh lately I'm only trusting multi-shippers not to pull anti bullshit out of their ass, and this niche of the DC fandom is really a safe haven. But I digress.

One of the things that really pisses me off the most is the rampant homophobia. Going by generic anti logic Jaydick is incest, but Dickbabs isn't. Jaytim is incest, Timsteph isn't. Brudick, Brujay, Brutim are all incestuous ships - except Bruce and Barbara isn't. The het ship is fine would you look at that. Childhood friends to lovers is alright with pop culture as long as it's a man and a woman, because if it's two men they'll immediately scream incest and abuse (lumping them together too, while they're also not the same thing ffs). Because hiding behind anti mentality and purity culture there's the big bad monster of queerphobia, which shows its ugly face the moment you take a peek below the surface.

And since I feel like this isn't being said enough. Dick and Jason ARE NOT BROTHERS. Neither are Dick and Tim, or Dick and Damian, Jason and Damian, Jason and Tim, I could go on. These people are not related, not by blood or legally, not in any way that matters and would make it incest. They're a legacy of characters who wear the same cowl for narrative reasons, and THAT'S IT.

Calling Jaydick "incest" irks me to no freaking end because I LOVE incest ships, I am DOWN BAD for them, and this one ain't it chief. They're not related. They didn't grow up together. They don't share any brotherly bond except a vague "brothers in arms" kinda thing. People decided this at some point in order to have an argument why their plastic prepackaged het ships were better than the Bad Abusive (gay) ones, because they're fucking homophobes, and that is about it.

And that's what I really want to say to all the young, queer antis that parrot the terfs and homophobes that pushed them in that direction. They are taking away a space that is YOURS TOO. They fucking HATE YOU. They hate you because you're queer, gay, bi, pan, ace, trans, nonbinary, a woman, even just a teen. Purity culture and anti mentality is how they keep you under control, tied to their morality leash and making life miserable to every other queer person that refuses to conform and refuses to shut up and to stop enjoying fiction for the harmless, but also valuable thing that it is.

[fantastic-nonsense]

I literally hate talking about Batcest, but this entire thread has a ton of nonsense in it that has zero reflection in historical reality of DC Comics or DC fandom, a lot of misconceptions about how various ships (het or not) are thought about or treated within the fandom, and weird inter-ship sniping that reads like petty, unfounded complaining instead of an understanding of why certain ships are generally thought about the way they are. So let's go through this a bit and correct the record!

I remember how Jaydick used to be the go-to vanilla, childhood-crush-to-lovers soft ship for young, first time shippers that wanted something simple and completely unproblematic.

This is obviously untrue. You're thinking of Jason/Tim, not Jason/Dick. One, there's a difference between "popular" and "uncontroversial," and frankly Jason/Dick wasn't even that popular of a ship until the mid-2010s (which you can see if you limit FFN and Ao3 works to fics written pre-2016). Two, there's no universe where Dick/Jason was ever considered an uwu softboy ship in the fandom-at-large considering that the ship didn't gain a fandom foothold until the late post-Crisis era (when they hated each other). Three, thinking that JayDick was ever considered a "vanilla" unproblematic ship ignores that Dick and Jason have always been explicitly referred to as brothers in canon, in all major continuities and both pre and post-resurrection. There is no era in which that isn't true. Hell, pre-Crisis!Dick wanted to adopt Jason in his first appearance before Bruce took him in instead.

Also, you are fooling yourselves if you think it was a "go-to vanilla, childhood crush-to-lovers soft ship." Again, you're thinking of Jason/Tim, which was not only uncontroversial but often the Batfandom's default intra-Batfam gay ship (the other one being StephCass) in the 2000s/early 2010s (with the temporal status quo in those fics generally being pre-Tim's adoption or while Jason was effectively not part of the family).

#Jaydick that used to be the ever-present 'despacito' ship (it was fucking everywhere and you couldn't escape it)

The fact that you think this was the case indicates to me that you got into the Batman fandom between 2017 and 2022, a 5-ish year period where Jason/Dick briefly exploded in the fandom before being slowly buried under the tide of 1) lots of people pointing out that Dick and Jason are canonically brothers who also have a large age gap, 2) a JayTim popularity resurgence, and 3) other non-Batfam ships getting more popular (such as JayRoy, DickWally, and the resurgence of DickKory+TimKon after the Titans live-action show premiered and Tim's coming out story in 2021). JayDick was frankly never a particularly popular ship before that timeframe (the mid-2010s were the turning point), and that needs to be understood by everyone in this thread.

#brudick used to be completely uncontroversial

The mere concept of BruDick quite literally led to a public moral panic that ended the Golden Age of comics and created the comics code. Even hinting that it might have some sort of canonical basis via writing Inheritance likely got Devin Grayson fired from DC in the 2000s (particularly egregious since she's also the writer who wrote the story where Bruce formally adopts Dick). The fandom at large has generally reacted similarly. "Completely uncontroversial" is the most understated thing you could ever say about that pairing.

Frankly, the fact that multiple people in this thread are bringing up Frederic Wertham and Seduction of the Innocent as points in Bruce/Dick's favor is indicative of a huge historical and cultural knowledge gap. Dick was canonically 12 years old when Seduction was published in 1954 while Bruce was a fully grown adult who was minimally in his late 20s. That (among several other reasons, including but not limited to the fact that it was a homosexual relationship) is why people reacted with such visceral revulsion to Wertham's claims even though they were patently ridiculous (as I explored in the AskHistorians answer linked above and as C.L. Tilley explains in her article "Seducing the Innocent: Fredric Wertham and the Falsifications That Helped Condemn Comics").

Also to the point about BruDick being historical LGBT iconography:

That iconography, including the grafitti picture that is featured above, almost always stems specifically from the portrayal of those two characters in Batman '66 television show by Adam West and Burt Ward (two grown adults in their 30s and 20s respectively, despite the fact that Ward was supposed to be portraying a 15-year-old Dick Grayson), not the comics themselves. Batman '66 had a large underground queer following, but Dick was canonically in high school in the comics at the time and very very few people will ever argue that the fandom (as it existed in the pre-modern, pre-zine and internet era) was shipping the version of the characters who appeared in the comics.

Arguing that it was historical LGBTQ iconography is not an argument that it used to be considered unproblematic. Those two statements have nothing to do with each other. This is especially true given that historical LGBT slogans, messaging, and iconography were often deliberately chosen to be controversial or upsetting. The ship existed and was well-known. That does not mean it was uncontroversial. The fact that mainstream fandom vehemently rejects it and always has should have been your major clue that this was the case.

Honestly there's an entire discussion that needs to be had here on fandom history, how fandoms of specific adaptations were historically largely segregated from fandoms of the source material by virtue of how fandom functioned in the pre-Tumblr/Ao3 era, and how larger cultural/subcultural interpretations and parodies of various adaptational choices affected or didn’t affect perspectives on certain characters or relationships in the source material, but frankly that's not something that can really be covered properly in a reply like this.

Anyway, if you want to know what the actual popular and "uncontroversial" gay pairings involving Bruce Wayne historically were (insomuch as any gay ship could be considered uncontroversial, which was, again, historically not the case), you're looking for three ships: Bruce/Clark (the ship that ACTUALLY carried the fandom on its back for over 50 years, as evidenced by the fact that they're the only pairing under discussion with an actual, proper Fanlore page and multiple 1990s/2000s-era zines), Bruce/Harvey, and—especially in the Nolanverse fandom's heyday—Bruce/Gordon. The major controversial gay ship that the fandom actually historically accepted to a certain degree was and has always been BatJokes, not BruDick.

And this is just a sidenote, but since we're discussing fandom history I'd like to take a moment to note that Clark/Lex was actually one of the biggest DCU slash ships of all time because of how popular Smallville and various other pieces of Superman-related media were, not anything involving Bruce. The Clark/Lois vs. Clark/Chloe vs. Clark/Lex vs. Clark/Lana wars basically carried the whole DCU fandom for the first half of the 2000s before the Nolanverse movies came out and kids who grew up with the DCAU shows got old enough to start contributing to fandom. Clex was huge, popular, and well-loved. You cannot talk about the history of slash shipping in the DCU fandom without talking about Clex (you also can't talk about it without mentioning TimKon or Riddlebird, but honestly those are separate discussions).

Finally, I want to specifically devote time to talking about the het ships mentioned in this thread, because this bit of the last reblog really took me out:

In the DC fandom no one bats an eye at Dick/Barbara, Tim/Stephanie and Bruce/Barbara (even if these people are exactly as non-related as Jason and Dick, or Tim and Damian). Sure maybe someone does bother people over "Bruce and Barbara have an age gap!" (because they don't know Barbara is supposed to be around Bruce's age and was initially intended to be Batman's love interest), but it's a glaring minority compared to all the rabid censorship worshippers that will call you a monster for shipping Jaydick or Jaytim.

One, quite a lot of people bat an eye at Bruce/Babs! It's a whole huge piece of discourse that's been going on for 20+ years! And it's not hard at all to find fan discussions from years ago that prove it! Including at the fan panels for the incredibly infamous Killing Joke animated movie! Including ones from 2004, just a couple of years after Batman Beyond (the first time that relationship was actually given any kind of significant credence or airtime) was actively airing! Bruce/Babs is probably one of the Top 5 most controversial and unpopular Bruce-related pairings of all time. I have no idea where you're getting the idea that people don't have Big Opinions™ about it.

As a sidenote here, there has never been a romantic relationship realized or even hinted at between Bruce and Barbara in any mainstream continuities. They're not romantically linked in the comics and never have been. Frankly, it's not even a possibility explored in adaptations or Elseworlds universes outside of the aforementioned DCAU-verse stuff; even her character in the Batman '66 television show was never intended to be seen as a love interest for Batman, though there were a couple of instances of harmless flirting. Bruce's major love interests throughout the Silver and Bronze Age were Selina Kyle on Earth-Two and Kathy Kane, Talia al Ghul, Silver St. Cloud, Natalia Knight, and Julia Pennyworth on Earth-One. Babs was noticably absent from the list of potential Comics!Bruce love interests even when she was old enough that people wouldn't have side-eyed it.

Two, why is anyone bringing up DickBabs and TimSteph in this conversation, much less as a comparison to any of the boys? Babs and Steph are not part of Bruce's family. They have their own parents, their own lives, and their own homes. Babs is Batfamily through her vigilante activities, her relationship with Dick, and her (pre-reboot) mother-daughter relationship with Cass; that’s it. Steph has even fewer connections; she's Batfamily solely through her vigilante activities and her relationship with Tim. It’s absolutely mind-numbingly dumb to claim otherwise. Bruce isn't their father (legally or emotionally), they don't live with him, and frankly, neither of them even particularly get along with him most of the time!

Dick, Jason, Tim, and Damian—and Cass as well, though she's not explicitly being talked about here— are all explicitly and canonically members of the Wayne family: Bruce is their father (whether biologically or legally) and that's the issue under discussion when it comes to fandom interaction with any pairing involving any of those characters.

They're all legally adopted by the same man, they all canonically consider Bruce to be their father, and they all canonically consider the others to be their siblings. That is the fundamental difference between the fandom's general reaction to a ship like JayDick vs a ship like TimSteph, not whatever hypothetical answer you've cooked up in your heads because you feel unfairly piled on. “Batfamily” does not equal “Wayne family,” and it’s stupid to see this point bandied around as some sort of justification to why any given Batcest ship should somehow be considered equal to any of the canon or ex-canon ships in the room.

Frankly the only group I'm sympathetic to here are JayTim fans, who effectively got Luke-Leia'd when Bruce adopted Tim after Infinite Crisis/OYL in 2007 and then had the deal sealed when DC decided to actually start reintegrating Jason into the family in 2012. Before that, there was nothing really problematic about the concept of Jason and Tim in a relationship, just like there was technically nothing problematic about the concept of Cass and Tim being in a relationship pre-2008 (though happening upon Tim/Cass fics written in like...2004, when DC was textually teasing a potential romance between them, is still a jumpscare).

The only real valid point being made in this whole discussion is that people used to mind their fandom business more often and they probably should do so again, not that JayDick or BruDick or any other Batcest ship used to be considered unproblematic. No, the vast majority of the fandom always thought those ships were problematic and gross. More people just decide to openly state that opinion to shippers' faces now. Which is rude, but considering how in-your-face Batcest shipping is relative to incest shippers in most fandoms not named Supernatural I get why it happens (bigger incidence in popular fandom spaces means bigger pushback).

Fandom these days is wild.

I remember how Jaydick used to be the go to vanilla, childhood-crush-to-lovers soft ship for young, first time shippers that wanted something simple and completely unproblematic.

Now going by the general consensus if you ship Jaydick you're a fucking freak of nature and you should repent or burn in hell.