#hesione rambling

[hesiones]

well if it isn't time to change my theme

[dajuans]

hansplaining is real you dumb fucks “oh no, we are all one family in this country, and you ethnic minorities all get preferential treatment like being allowed to have more than one baby and getting affirmative action boosts into top schools and also half of [insert minority group] are pickpockets and the other half are religious extremists” have you seriously never heard one of these things from any of your relatives or family friends or weixin groupchats? are you fucking kidding me.

[tiaochan]

why do all the quote posts I reblog turn into text posts 😑

[autumnmobile12]

Exactly! Valid opinions all around!

What makes modern retellings interesting and difficult is the source material comes from a time period and culture where the people had a set of moral values that are extremely different to the modern day or have been lost altogether. The best example of this is Herakles (Hercules in Roman.) Today, he's regarded as probably the most famous hero of Greek mythology, but if you delve into his story, it's more than just the Twelve Labors he's known for. Herakles is a murderer, a rapist, a kidnapper, he's a lot of things people today would consider him a monster for. There's a myth where Troy is besieged by a sea monster and Herakles offers to kill it in exchange for some horses. King Laomedon agrees, but after Herakles slays the monster, the king reneges on his promise. In modern storytelling, we would probably expect the hero to cut his losses and move on, letting some other karmic justice or divine intervention sort out King Laomedon for his treachery. Instead, the story goes with Herakles unapologetically sacking the city, then he kills the king and most of his sons. He only spares the final son, the eventual King Priam and grandfather of the infant from Just a Man, from this fate only because Princess Hesione offers to pay for her brother's life. Herakles agrees and sets the son free, but he also gives Hesione to one of his allies to be his wife.

By modern standards, holy shit! That's not a hero!

And that's the struggle of modern storytellers: Do they stick to the horrific actions/messages of the original story or do they try to reconcile old stories with modern values to make it more palatable to modern audiences? Because no sane person today is going to celebrate a 'hero' who massacres a family because the father didn't pay him.

So Odysseus in the original Odyssey...pretty tame compared to Herakles from what I've read. He bought Queen Hekuba as a war prize after the sacking of Troy. He raids a town unprovoked after leaving Troy. I kinda went into the story with the infant a little more with this post here. Still pretty bad by modern standards, but not the same Herakles levels of Nope.

Odysseus in Epic...yeah, I have to agree with OP's 'situational monstrosity' argument in that most of the monstrous things he does have a justifiable reason. In the above story, Herakles was not considered a monster because he sacked a city even though he had the choice not to. By the Ancient Greek standards, he's a hero for not refusing to be slighted by an arrogant king who didn't pay him. In fact, if he had slunk away and accepted things as they were, he might have been regarded as dishonorable or cowardly by the audience of his times.

Also partially agreeing with @teach-me-teachey on that it's Odysseus' self-assertion that he's a monster (also haven't had a chance to listen to the new saga yet, so I'm just getting context from what's being discussed here,) which I tentatively think reflects on Odysseus' words in Remember Them on wanting to be better than what a brutal world expects:

What good would killing do When mercy is a skill more of this world could learn to use?

It's a good message and it's the one I think Rivera-Herrans is trying to go for in this musical, but the problem here is that lyric is also followed up by Odysseus' original arrogance in basically yelling to the blinded Polyphemus, "Yo, King Odysseus of Ithaka did this to you!" He might as well have scratched his name and address on the Cyclops with that declaration. I'm pretty sure that, in the original, he's proud of what he did. Definitely some mixed messages that could use some resolving.

Sorry for the ramble. This is such a fascinating topic and there is so much to be said about it with context, historical relevance, theme, and so on.

lowkey think that if jorge really wanted to sell us on the "odysseus is a monster thing" he should have had odysseus continue to stab poseidon even after he begged. bc like. Looking at odysseus now? he's less a monster and more like a morally grey protagonist. All of his questionable actions have pretty good explanations behind them. if you want to tell me he's a MONSTER, you need him to do something really fucking vile. without good justification. killing the baby? (also. he fought in a war. i reckon plenty of babies died indirectly as a result of his actions somehow) zeus literally told him he and his family would die otherwise. blinding the cyclops? pretty self-explanatory. sacrificing the men to scylla? bad, but has an understandable reason behind it and you can theoretically justify it. choosing the crew to die? saving his own life+you could argue they are the ones at fault for eating the cows anyway. torturing poseidon? there's literally no other way poseidon would let him go at that point AND he immediately stops after he begs.

point is, if you're going to tell me a character is a monster then at least make them do something that cannot be defended. something that CANNOT be justified at all. continuing to stab poseidon after being begged would have done that. but who knows, maybe the suitors being killed will be shown as something like that? still unlikely though considering they plot to kill telemachus and rape penelope.

[zhugeliangs]

I don’t believe in astrology, but I’m posting the poems from Linda Goodman’s chapbook Venus Trines at Midnight because it was on the free books shelf at my public library and, well, I like the poems/phrases she uses, which is why I’m tagging them with astrology and etc. since I want them to get more attention.

[crossingplace]

SO BASICALLY if you have been an acquaintance of mine and have wondered where the hell has hesione been she’s been stuck on this website for the past six years and now she ups and disappears? Well, i’m currently in a chinese entertainment (i.e. girl groups, boy groups, tv shows, politics...) phase and the only real c-ent fandom is on twitter... alas so i decided to jump into that cesspit of humanity for a bit... also have been less stuck on snk/rping obvs, and kind of over the teenage social customs that accompany and drive rping wild lmaoooo. what is this grammar.

In total, i’ve come back and thinned down the muse number on my main multi dramatically to mostly ocs, and moved my snk charas to this sideblog bc some non-snk rpers are understandably uncomfortable around certain snk imagery, even though snk itself does not condone distasteful ideologies in any form. also i’ll be spending way more time offline writing my original stories so. this is where i ramble.

[hesiones]

i can’t believe reylo is real

[dajuans]

the historical is the political!

[tiaochan]

so proud of this one

[xiwangmus]

zhugeliangs → xiwangmus

[zhugeliangs]

ok i’m finally going to make my tag page :’)

[dajuans]

honestly idk how tankies can defend the prc when the entire ruling committee is made of old men who write shit like http://www.china.com.cn/opinion2020/2021-08/27/content_77718348.shtml

[dajuans]

sorta awol from tumblr while mainland china goes batshit insane cause all the protest action is being shared on twitter

[dajuans]

have jiayou! amigo stuck in my head

[dajuans]

WHEN IS THE NEXT INTL VERSION FOOFAN EVENT ???????!?!?!? I’M dying

[dajuans]

where tf do I find the chinese voices for food fantasy pls