#he did have those in the original but he’s been super flanderized here

[king-crawler]

If Ralph breaks the internet was awesome they would’ve had a part where Ralph and Vanellope load into a new game and they look over and see a crowd of people T-posing and they’re like. (whispering) what are those people doing……..

[rollflasher]

Another Sonic ramble

So once again I’m here with one of my rambles about my incredibly subjective view of how the Sonic series should be handled! *Beat*

...anyway.

So, one of the more recurring opinions on the fandom is that Sonic games should be written by Ian Flynn, I have talked before about the gripes I have with his writing and why I disagree with this but this post is not entirely about him, but rather a more general topic that has been bugging me for a long time.

The other day I was watching a video speculating about the upcoming Sonic Rangers, there’s not much to write home since it was pretty well made but there’s a particular part that inspired me to do this post and talk about it with other fans to discuss it.

See, at one point the video critisized the fact that Sonic Forces was written by a Japanese writer because they have to re-write the script in English and that can cause problems with localization, and that it would be better to have western writers from the get-go since Sonic’s main demographic comes from there, while making an off-hand suggestion that Ian Flynn could be a main choice. While I can see where they’re coming from, my response was a simple:

‘‘Absolutely, not’‘

See, I have a lot of issues with this to put it bluntly and I’ll try to break them down and explain them the best I can since they’re pretty subjective in nature, but I’m bringing this up because I want you guys to share your thoughts as well.

So, why does it bug me so much the idea of Sonic being handled by western creators?

In my case, the main reasons are because Sonic loses a core part of it’s appeal because of this, the fact that SEGA of Japan seems to have a better grasp of the franchise’s tone and characters and there’s the very subjective point that, in my eyes, American versions of Japanese franchises were always nothing more than dumbed down products of the source material.

To start with my first point, whenever someone talks about Sonic’s creation, a lot of people are quick to point out that our favorite blue hedgehog and his games were inspired by western pop culture and cartoons, and that is true, however oftenly they forget to mention a core thing that not only inspired, but also formed part of the core identity of this franchise.

Sonic is very inspired on anime, and at heart this franchise is a shonen.

(This image by The Great Lange expresses more clearly what I mean)

Generally, the most acknowledgement anime gets on it’s hand on Sonic is the mentions of Sonic being inspired by Dragon Ball, particularly the Super Saiyan, but there’s so much more than that, as Sonic blatantly takes inspiration from Studio Ghibli films specially in games like Sonic 3, which draws a lot of inspiration from Laputa: Castle in the Sky, this great post shows proof that this is not a coincidence.

And it doesn’t stop there, Shiro Maekawa himself has stated that SA2′s story (and in particular, the characters of Shadow and Maria) draw a lot of inspiration from the manga Please Save My Earth.

Even Sonic’s character design resembles shonen protagonists moreso than the main characters of silent cartoons, don’t believe me?

Sure, Sonic has a cartoony anatomy, no one can deny that, but he also exhibits a lot of traits from shonen characters such as spiky hair/quills (?), dynamic posing, a confident, courageous and energetic personality and most importantly, fighting spirit.

If you compare Sonic’s personality and more specifically, his abilities and moves to, say, cartoon speedy characters like the Road Runner, there’s a pretty big disconnection between him and western cartoon characters. Hell, this disconnection is even just as present if you compare him with a character like The Flash from DC.

Simply put, Sonic acts, moves and more importantly, fights like a shonen anime character. He doesn’t just go Super Saiyan and that’s it. Here’s even a quick comparison if necessary.

And this is important because this doesn’t apply just to him, but the whole franchise as a whole and when it takes a more western approach, all of these details are kinda lost or more downplayed, of course this depends on the artists and there’s YMMV at hand, but I think my point is clear.

My second point is...SoJ has consistently proven they have a much clearer grasp on how Sonic’s world and characters are compared to SoA.

Hear me out, yes, Sonic 06 and ShtH exist and yes, SoJ is not perfect by any means. But hear me out...when did the characters start to get flanderized and turned into parodies of themselves? In the 2010s...and when did SEGA move from Japanese to western writers in the games?

Of course it was more then that since there’s a whole tone shift that came with this decade and the new writers, but it’s not a coincidence that when writing in Sonic started to decay, western writers also happened to get on board with the games.

Besides that, SoA has a wide history of not getting Sonic’s tone and characters, from how they made media without much of Sonic Team’s input, to altering how characters are seen in the west. (Such as how they amped up Sonic’s attitude in their media or how the English scripts of the games featured things like Sonic seemingly barely tolerating Amy while the JP scripts portrayed this as Sonic just not understanding girls all that well instead, or for more recent examples, the addition of the ‘’torture’’ line in Forces). Not only that, but even ignoring obvious infamous writers like Ken Penders, even the ‘’best’’ writers from the western side of Sonic are still not above of giving us Pontaff-esque gems.

Like this one.

Or alternatively, I feel like sometimes western writers on Sonic rely a bit too much on their personal vision about Sonic which may or may not be a good thing, clear examples of this are Ian Flynn himself and Pontaff.

By contrast, while SoJ has it’s own share of notorious inconsistencies when dealing with writing (The 2000s era is a big offender), it seems that for them Sonic hasn’t changed much and this is visible not only on the JP scripts of the Modern games which are for the most part better than the ENG ones, but also things like the Sonic Channel comics and the recent one-shots they made with Sonic interacting with the cast show that for all intents and purposes, the Japanese’s staff vision of Sonic is much more clear and consistent compared to the west. Because of this, I’d rather have a good Japanese writer on Sonic games with the localization being focused on being faithful with the original script than have a more western writers dramatically changing the characters. (I don’t mention the tone since either way, SEGA is the one in charge of that and the writers have to follow that)

My last and very subjective point is that, at least for me, everything SoA does with Sonic involving the writing and canon feels like a dumbed down version of the source material. One of the reasons it bugs me so much that in the latest decade Sonic has taken a more western direction is because a lot of what I pointed out gets lost as a result, even if some of those elements are still there, you can tell they’re more downplayed with products like the Tyson Hesse shorts having a more predominant cartoon direction. If any of you have been following my blog for a long time, you should be aware that just because I prefer the Japanese Sonic content doesn’t mean I won’t give the western products a chance, my enjoyment for Mania, the Tyson Hesse shorts and the movie should be a testament of that, but at the same time I can’t help but being sour about the fact that because of these products, we don’t have stuff like a new anime for Sonic or even a serialized ‘’main’’ manga as an alternative for the comics, and my hype for these products is generally more subdued as a result since I’d wish SEGA rather spent that money and resources on more Japanese content than just merchandise.

In particular, because Sonic is a Japanese franchise with a notorious inspiration from anime, what I get from this is a pretty big contradiction. I know Sonic is much more popular on the west but...is it really necessary for his game or products to be handled by western creators to keep their appeal?

For instance, imagine if Dragon Ball’s manga and anime got replaced by western comics and animated series because of it’s world-wide appeal, would that really be the same?

Or imagine the same thing with Fullmetal Alchemist, a pretty aclaimed anime that has a lot of western influence. Would it really not matter at all if it’s Japanese products were replaced with western ones?

At least for me, it wouldn’t.

And what I said about American versions of Japanese franchises being nothing more than watered down versions of the source material? I have that view because of countless examples.

Mega Man and how the English manuals removed a lot of important information about the story of the Blue Bomber’s game and world, causing a lot of plot holes in the process.

American remakes like Godzilla 1998 or Dragon Ball Evolution being an in-name only version of the source material.

Or the many censored anime English dubs from the 2000s, for instance, whenever I see the Yu-Gi-Oh! dubs, I only see a very dumbed down and childish version of a show that was originally a shonen.

And I know that all of these things don’t have to necessarely get lost since every creator is different and there’s franchises like Avatar which are made on the west but draw a lot of inspiration from anime and I’m aware of that, and I want to make it clear that I’m not trying to say that American writers are not allowed to work on Sonic, what I’m trying to say is that inevitably there’s always gonna be some culture dissonance and clash when writers from another culture handle a foreign franchise. And even with examples like ATLA, I think being made by one culture while being inspired by the other is actually a big part of these franchises appeal and it’s something that can’t simply be replicated by handing it to creators from that specific culture they draw inspiration from.

I think James Rolfe’s quote about the same thing with the Godzilla franchise sums up how I feel about this.

‘‘It’s like champagne, anybody can make their own and call it champagne, but unless it’s from Champagne France, it’s not real champagne’‘

So, this last part was very subjective, but I think this post in general sums up why I dislike so much the idea of Sonic having western writers specifically in the games or just focusing more on that side in general.

But what do you guys think? I guess I am too biased so that’s why I wanted to ask for opinions and discuss this topic.

[thattimdrakeguy]

I couldn’t finish Batman and Robin 2009. It was just... mentally exhausting and I stopped shortly after Bat Dick put fake Bruce in the Lazarus pit. Based on his appearances in Teen Titans, Bruce Wayne: Road Home, as well as his big fan base, I assumed Damian’s character development was executed nicely in his own series. But then again in Gates of Gotham (literally read it just for Cass) he’s impulsive, arrogant and rude to Cass both to her face and behind her back-even after she saved his life 1

Don’t get me started on the sexist things he’s said to Steph. I want to like Damian, but writers don’t make it easy. I got into comics because of batfam fanfics and he was a fave of mine. Dude was extra violent and displayed borderline sociopathic tendencies in his first appearances, cool beans. There’s a lot they can do with a character like that. I just felt like his bad behaviour was never properly dealt with before B&R, and I couldn’t muster the energy to see him through his own series. 2/2

IMO, Damian felt like a Gary Stu at times.

I don’t know if that last one was from the same person or not, but I just got the feeling it is, and if it’s not, then well it blends well enough and don’t feel the need to answer it separately.

Like all I can really say is that I don’t really like Damian. A lot of people confuse that for me thinking he’s an evil monster. I imagine cause I have a Tim icon and other Tims do rage on about that every now and again. As well as just plain taking things I say the wrong way (though I have probably said things in the moment I imagine). But I just plain don’t really like his writing, and if I can’t really read a comic he’s in that I actually like. Idk, I just find it weird to say I like him, when all I really like is what he could be. I don’t feel like that really equals me liking him, cause when I think about it, I kinda realized that meant the opposite, and didn’t wanna project the wrong idea.

But I wanna say this about Damian. He is insanely inconsistent as a personality and character. To this very day. So, as I do with every character, I start from the beginning, figure out what was meant to be by the writers that helped develop them, and figure out what’s in-character and out of character from there. I just feel like it’s the most objective way I can look at anything if I want to review things with standards that are more than just “I like this” or “I don’t like that”.

And in the case of Damian he’s never not been inconsistent. Like one of the main reasons I reread Batman and Robin (or at least Morrison’s run) was for plans of a post about flanderization in the Bat-Family, cause it was pretty rampant in the 00s and still continues often to this very day, and I think is the cause of a lot of lost sales and unhappiness and overall fandom diminishment.

However also to say it, I liked to see a lot of what Damian could be within B&R 09.

But anyways, basically just because I can’t really do a part of the post on Damian without trying to figure out what he was like to begin with, and what he was supposed to be per his creator.

Cause you can’t really tell in fandom. Cause his most popular comics are from stuff that isn’t in the main universe and was purposely a lot lighter, or in the main universe from writers that really surprisingly didn’t get the character despite the popularity--which continues my thinking on it was less about the quality of the writing and more about the lazy fan service. They honestly really flanderized him in a similar yet opposite way then what they did with Tim in the 00s.

And while I can’t act like the sexism and homophobia wasn’t an actual part of the character of Damian at the time--he shows both of those traits in the series (at least the homophobia, cause I’m now realizing that I might be thinking of another series for the sexism). He was flanderized even then by other writers from the different series.

Like how he’s written in Red Robin, is not freaking Damian. It’s not Damian to me. I don’t accept it as Damian. Even a lot of the content of him in Batgirl I even less feel like is Damian--besides unfortunately some of the sexist comments, but they never really proper developed him on that as far as like--actively showing that, at least that I can recall. So all I can really say is it’s uncomfortable, and how they don’t delve into it is the only real reason I say “That actually sadly does fit in with him”. But it’s not like it doesn’t make sense, he was raised to fight, not to handle emotions or feelings, he probably would do and say really creepy things when he has a crush--I just wish they’d actually acknowledge that what was going on rather than sacrificing a good story for more fan service.

The other writers make him too much of a bratty, snotty, kid. And I found that, that is an absolutely terrible interpretation of Damian, because beyond his origin, he isn’t a typical brat, and he doesn’t really act like a kid (in some ways yes, but general mannerisms and personality no). And even then he was a different kind of brat. He was entitled and bitchy in his origin, not immature (at least in the same way) and snotty. They have him act more like some spoiled brat from next door rather than a kid that was abused into being obedient to be what his abusive mother wanted (Talia shouldn’t be abusive, but like I said before, I think the series sucked overall for reasons like that and more).

(I also find that stupid line cutting scene in RR where I presume he was trying to kill Tim to be even stupider, cause Damian wouldn’t freaking do that at that point. They make Damian come off as so stupid in that issue, I hate it. Cause it was all just a cheap way to force sympathy for him, but it doesn’t even make sense when you think about it and is a huge stretch.)

Damian doesn’t make jokes when he’s written better--it’s like his thing. He’s got quite the temper, and understandably why of course. He’s violent with criminals, but he’s also mostly just stoic as his base state when not in a stressed situation, and even shows remorse (which is a big stretch from his origin, but I blame that on the writing which could be very rushed and lazy). He was treated like just another adult for the most part, and it had a weirdly endearing quality despite the maturity of it, and general edge of the series. It was Damian’s place and it worked really well. It just felt right for their dynamics. Damian’s a unique kid, and they respected him for who he was. He just needed help on his morals and stability.

But other series didn’t really get that. He would still be really rude like his origin, and not really the same tone of rudeness (I’m not sure if I can really explain what I mean by that), he’s aggressive, but putting him in Teen Titans never made sense to me, because I don’t see Dick doing that. Dick had a lot more respect than to force Damian to do something like that. Dick was more patient, and while he did lightly smack (not any kind to hurt him any. literally to demonstrate without pain. more taps really) him to teach him a point about aesthetical weaknesses in his costume like the hood, it was mostly done out of finding a way to teach him that would speak to him. So just forcing him to do something he didn’t want to do--which would clearly not work on him--was just contrived and plain bad writing wise. Something they did more as a stunt so they can say “TITANS NOW HAS THE SON OF BATMAN” than to use him well or continue his story in a natural way.

With Cass I can’t say anything, because that’s like the one time he talks to her, and that basically shows their dynamic. So that’s just them, I can’t really say anything on it. If he felt challenged by her I could see him being a total jerk. It really depends on the scenes themselves. I never read the series myself cause I genuinely really don’t like that Batman Reborn era of Bat-Family. Too much of it was just done for publicity and random changes, and for the most part didn’t work much to me.

But overall, at the same time, despite me singing the praises of what Damian could be, and was for a little while. The overall writing for the character arc was super lazy. Stuff just kind of happens, and way too quick to fit in with what they introduced. He just kind of goes “this is right, now”, which makes his whole brainwashing thing feel a bit--useless, and makes how he went from chopping heads off to that in very little time sort of cuts out depth that could’ve really made the series more rereadable. Damian actually comes off surprisingly as a very flat character for stretches of time in the issues because his character arc is never focused on as much as you’d think until they need to be like “Oh yeah...uh, here’s an emotional moment”. Which just felt really cheap to me.

So the series to me isn’t worth it if you want a good story. None of the stories were good to me, I think I was questioning each one cause it was either schlocky, out of character, or both. I know people like Grant Morrison, but they aren’t for me, I’m not a fan of their writing. Damian was a Gary Stu a lot, which they try to explain with the League thing--but having the League give him experimental surgery so he could walk the same day (or next) after being legitimately paralyzed was just way too freaking much to me. But he does make mistakes, so he’s not at base a Gary Stu really--the writing just really stunk badly sometimes.

This isn’t me putting in a bid to say “OH YOU JUST NEED TO READ THIS, AND YOU’LL FREAKING LOVE HIM”, because to be freaking honest, when you already have a bad taste in your mouth, it’s best to just wait a bit till trying again. I read the fandom recommended comics and felt there was so many problems that I couldn’t read Damian for literal months. And he still has a lot of the problems you said. I’m just saying Damian is surprisingly different when written by his creator than others, cause honestly nearly every single other writer for him has gotten him wrong. Like mind-blowingly wrong. He does not feel like the same character anywhere else. It’s nuts.

To put it another way, it’s a generally speaking bad series, but if you want to see what Damian was meant to be like before they kept regressing him, and diminishing him, and turning him into more a joke, and see what his dynamic with Dick and Alfred was meant to be like, it’s a brilliant and perfect series to read it for.

It’s better for learning about them--then it actually is to enjoy it. Because it’s most likely not a series I’m going to be returning too often unless to research something again.

[jenivi]

Top 5 Persona Characters?

oh i’m so glad you sent this ask!! for this, i’ll try not to include any of the protagonists because they technically don’t have a canon personality; their personalities are mostly widely known fan inferences rooting from their dialogue options and overall attitude (which i also believe as well,, but yeah we’ll just not include them in. plus let’s just have the other characters shine!). keep in mind, i really am not the best with putting my thoughts into words, so some sentences might seem kinda funky lol. and everything here is my opinion :]

1) yosuke hanamura (persona 4)

sometimes, it saddens me that people view his character from the surface level and are quick to renounce him as homophobic and pervy. to add fuel to the flame, atlus kind of flanderizes yosuke’s character in golden and the animation (trust me, i love the animation and they did add some parts for yosuke that i love, but you gotta admit they could’ve done his character a bit more justice). of course yosuke’s flaws should be recognized and be critiqued, but honestly, these flaws are what make yosuke yosuke. removing those things, in ways, takes away from the 3 dimensional-ness of his character.

i feel that it was made clear what his “stereotypical role” was going to be in the story from his easily perceived surface personality traits. some of these traits were his recklessness, competitiveness and the fact that he was constantly being dunked on by the other characters, making him seem like just the comic relief. but throughout the story, you find out he’s more than that (which i will talk more in detail a little later). most prominently known by fans, there is the “bro” aspect to him. in this game, yu is the one who has to walk up to people and ask them to hang out, but yosuke is the only one of all the characters who takes the initiative to get to know yu. he nicknames you partner, constantly calls you on the phone at night, and always kind of asks you questions and says things to get a reaction out of you. from this, a natural friendship between blossoms and you feel like you get know really know yosuke personally. you learn that he’s actually very strategic and intelligent, incredibly loyal and cares deeply about his friends, and is overwhelmingly insecure and repressed. okay, we have to talk about this part. he seems closeted, and that can be the reasoning on why he sometimes makes homophobic remarks. i do think it’s a shame that his romance route was scrapped when it obviously was far in development. for some, the bro aspect can super fixated on and might be one of the only reasons why someone likes yosuke. this sadly kind of subconsciously fetishizes their relationship. of course that’s not the case all the time! but it’s something to be mindful of. even looking past the souyo ship (which i love deeply!), they are such great friends platonically, and yosuke himself is such a great character. throughout the story, he matures and develops into someone more humble, thoughtful and appreciative. from the moment he first showed up on screen, i kind of had a feeling he was going to be my favorite. and it’s kind of crazy how much i grew fond of him over time and realized the impact his character made on me.

2) elizabeth (persona 3)

elizabeth is so underrated, and i speak that from the bottom of my heart. she is so hilariously naive and funky, while also being one of the most powerful and intelligent persona characters. the way you are first introduced to her are through fulfilling her requests in the velvet room. as you fulfill her requests, you’re kind like, “you want me to do that,, really?” she tells you to bring her oil?? for some reason? and to feed a cat so it can prosper forever and ever? those are just some things i can think of at the top of my head. from these requests, you kind of get a peak at her funny weirdness and you’re just like “okay you’re weird but i like you.” and when you get to take her on dates (but i just see them as hangouts :]), you are essentially helping her make new experiences of the world outside of the velvet room and get into a lot of wacky hijinks. with this, her endearing weirdness and naivety really starts to shine, making you fall in love with the character. so now you’re like “wow, you’re really weird i love you lol.” her funny weirdness also translates to her dance style in persona 3 dancing, which i absolutely  love. it really encapsulates that side of her character accurately (and you gotta admit she’s got some cool funky moves).

beyond the funny side of her, you find out how truly powerful she is as a being. she can wield thanatos, which was only previously held by someone with the universe arcana), and is unfathomably strong as she is one of the harder boss fights in the entire series. it is also important to note that she is also very determined and i found it bittersweetly heartwarming that she is still mourning over makoto/minato(i nicknamed him virgin walk)’s death years afterward (as seen in persona 4 arena) and that she is dedicating herself to free his soul that is bound to the door of death. she misses her dear friend, and i just really love that she threw caution to the wind and went on this journey to try to find a way to resolve something that is seemingly impossible. and she is still doing it to this day, into the persona 5 timeline (because persona 5 royal shows that minato/makoto/virginwalk is still bound to the door). persona 3 happens in 2009 and persona 5 happens in 20XX (which is assumed to be 2016). it has almost been a decade. i truly think it’s in her character to keep searching for a way to free him no matter how long it takes. with all aspects of her personality in mind, i love her character with my whole heart. 

3) yukiko amagi (persona 4)

if i’m completely honest, yukiko was not one of my favorite characters at the time i played persona 4. i was one of the many people who overlooked her character because the others pretty much outshine her. because she is introduced in the beginning as the first dungeon, you start to put her towards the background once kanji, rise and naoto are introduced. from the surface, the first impression of her is “okay, i guess her quirk is that she laughs a lot?” i initially thought this too, but thinking more about it, i began liking that about her, and with more thought, i realized that i liked other things about her character as well. her sense of humor is so dumb? she laughs at lame stuff and fixates on things in conversation that just make you go “uhh okay,,, yukiko??” i think i opened my eyes to this when i was playing her story in persona 4 arena. i found it so hilarious that she fixated on the quality of the box lunch she prepared for everyone out of all the things happening, and that her whole arc in that game revolved around how bad it was (putting it into simpler terms). i also really think its funny how blunt she is too. she’s ready to shoot people down, and most of the time, it’s unintentional. 

and other than her quirks, i kind of like how her arc developed in the game. i know that many people saw that the end of her arc as “wrong” because they were expecting the usual resolution to problems similar to hers. they expected her to “follow her heart and pick freedom” if she feels trapped in her role as an innkeeper when she inherits her family’s inn in the future. but that wasn’t the point. i actually kind of like that she ultimately chooses to stay. in her social link, she decides to stay in inaba and to run the inn because it’s her own choice. she chose this out of her own will and that’s the only thing that mattered; no one else is forcing her to inherit the business and she decides that’s what she wants. i also really like that the animation showed the responsibilities and hard work she has to go through at the inn; it was a nice touch and really displayed how responsible she was and how much she prioritizes and dedicates her time at the inn. although she is responsible, she is not necessarily the “mom-friend” of the group. she can be a bit crazy like everyone else too. honestly the whole investigation team runs rabid because there is no mom-friend to keep them in check (persona 3 has mitsuru and persona 5 has makoto). anyway, really taking the time to think about yukiko’s character made me love her.

4) yusuke kitagawa (persona 5) 

okay, this is going to be very straightforward, but i think that yusuke was one of the most enjoyable parts of persona 5. i loved whenever he was on screen,, he’s super eccentric and i find it so funny to see the whole starving-artist thing taken literally. he’s definitely awkward but is trying his best! he definitely has the most stage presence compared to the other phantom thieves. the other members are pushed to the background whenever he speaks. he’s dramatic and over the top, but somehow this hilarious absurdity is relatable. 

other than the tendency to steal the show, his social link is more focused on his own development and his own personal growth. whereas, with the other characters, it kind of focuses on the character and the people they associate with outside the phantom thieves. for yusuke, in comparison, it’s much more personal. you travel around with him to help him to figure out what the aspects of the human heart are and to help him get out of his artistic slump after opening his eyes to the abuse he went through with madarame. he originally had a narrow perspective but overtime he learns to broaden it. i just really like how the social link plays out, it was really satisfying. and i just love how genuine and sincere he is as he is always doing things out of pure intentions. it’s also so admirable to see how much passion he has for the things he loves. yusuke, with certainty, is one of my favorite phantom theives. 

5) yuuki mishima (persona 5)

mishima is such an important and underrated character in persona 5. mishima throughout the whole game has been nothing but nice to you, even with akira/ren’s reputation. sure, he can be awkward and can be seen as overbearing to some, but he’s always had his heart in the right place. i’ve kind of always liked his dumb awkwardness and seeing how he’s trying hard to be our friend (it’s a shame our dialogue options toward him are always kinda mean but hopefully he sees it as teasing). he is so crucial to the story because honestly, he’s the one who got the ball rolling by creating the phansite, and that phansite actually helped so many people. he, himself, doesn’t even get recognition for making the site, he just really believed in the phantom thieves and wanted to help them in the ways he could. he did have an arc to humble himself after getting hungry for fame, but in the end he changed his own heart with his own will (and is the only character to do that!) which is pretty powerful. 

i also love that he’s always been a supporter of the phantom thieves no matter what happens and what other people think. when the phantom thieves were being trashed on, he still held onto hope and believed they were doing the right thing (plus him supporting them in those times just proves he wasn’t just doing the phansite for fame!!). another moment that screams this most is toward the end, when everything was in destruction and people were forgetting about the phantom theives in the time literally needed someone to believe in them most. mishima was the only one who still had faith in them and knocked some sense into everyone else. without him there, things could have turned out pretty badly. and i know i’ve heard that some fans wanting him to be a phantom thief himself, but it would just mess with a major part of his character. there’s something about him not completely knowing who the members of the phantom thieves are and him deciding to help with the phansite despite this, you know? yeah i like mishima a lot :))

some honorable mentions are kanji tatsumi (persona 4) and aigis (persona 3)! some of the honorable mentions are characters i like over some others that are on the list but i wanted to make sure i included people from persona 3, 4, 5 (because honestly this list would be persona 4 dominated if i didnt lol).

[the-nysh]

Whats your opinon of kiri//baku and todo//deku?

!!!!! 👀 Oooh, *takes deep breath* so I’ve finally been askedthe big question. (Thank you for courteously using the /s to block the ship names out of the tags) Because I DO have opinionsabout them. I’ve mostly kept them to myself, but since I’ve been prompted, Iwill try to be as honest and thorough as I can. :’)

Disclaimer: If you high-key shipeither of the two, please proceed with caution! 

To preface:

If it wasn’t already obvious from the content I reblog (and rave about in thetags), my decisive fav character of the series is Kacchan, and similarly, my otp of the series is with him and Deku(as bakudeku, aka bkdk for short – which is how it’scommonly called on twitter). So going in, that’s my given stance already.

But it wasn’t always this way! :O When I first started theseries I went in pretty cautious, wary, and undecided; I actually never plannedto fall so hard for either the character or the ship (and I rarely ship things tobegin with). That is, until Hori repeatedly bludgeoned me in the face and heartwith all the reoccurring and carefully consistent character development, to thepoint ch120 became the final, decisive nail in the coffin - the point of noreturn for me. :’3 So now, I’m fully invested in seeing how their story pulls through to the end, nomatter what it might become (it doesn’t even need to be shippy). With them thematically established as two sidesof the same coin – on opposite ends of the same spectrum of heroism – the twohalves of All Might who both win and rescue:I want to see how they push each other towards greatness and mature into a pairof the best heroes. It’s a long-term investment of hope and a case of slowburn positive development, in direct (and on purpose!) contrast to its rockyand strained foundations (they ARE immature and emotionally constipated teensafter all), but it’s all been carefully laid out through a steady path ofnarrative foreshadowing. Where the prospects at the end of that path – of mutualsupport, understanding, reconciliation, cooperation, teamwork, trust – arebeautiful and rewarding things that make their ongoing journey of growth worthit. So…for Hori to smash any original expectations I might have had, and makeme fall hard for something I never intended to happen, are examples of whatI consider GOOD writing.

After I realized this, I went and did my research. Which inmy case, is reading up on countless character/relationship meta and fanfics togauge how the fandom sees their potential too. So I am very aware of the multiple sides of existing arguments and the dramathat’s already happened in the fandom (from across both tumblr and twitter). Iknow the western fandom considerably favors kr/bk and td/dk (at least for now), BUT in the eastern fandom,it’s actually bkdk that’s more popular. Hmm, curious why that is?

One of the reasons is partly thanks to the widespread availabilityof fan mistranslations (FA group) that have greatly exaggerated certain characterizations(ie Kacchan), leading to fandom fearmongering and the perpetuation of stigmasagainst the canon development of certain relationships (ie bkdk), which in theoriginal text, were never nearly thatflanderized or as offensive in context to begin with. Include also, adifference in cultural expectations/values, and we get a prickly concoction ofmisunderstandings ready to brew. It’s a poor and unfortunate case of important subtleties/complexitiesgetting lost in translation, while the bad things are blown way out ofproportion, to the point the story’s original intent is sidelined, or worse, canonis deliberately obstructed by translators who already dislike seeing suchcontent (because it’s ‘not their ship’) – so they prevent and hurt othersfrom fully enjoying the progression of the series as the author intended. Peoplecan like what they like (that’s perfectly fine), but in all of my lurking, Ihave SEEN examples of these things (andworse) actively happen, and quite frankly, the spread of this blatant toxicityand compulsive collective ignorance sickens me. So, I choose not to getinvolved with it, and instead focus on the positive.

Because of my preference for meta and faithfulinterpretations of the text (making sure available translations are reliablefor analyzing, for instance), I’ve gathered enough information (andacknowledged enough counterarguments) to make an educated decision for myself onwhat I value most and want to see from the series. Unless Hori veers offotherwise, I’ll stick by that conclusion and enjoy following the series throughto fruition (regardless of what the rest of the opposing fandom might say).

For example, one of the first dedicated and respectful metawriters – back when only the FA scans were available, but who ALSO providedcorrections from the Japanese text where necessary, came to this conclusionabout Deku and Kacchan’s characterizations:  

From ryokure:

“Deku is such a super special case that if a fanfichas him and Kacchan in it - no matter the parings - and they don’t have somecase of mutual obsession, I actually consider that OOC.”

Which, after everything I’ve seen of the characters, I can fully concur withthat statement.

MEANING, if the fandom portrays them off alone, together, or involvedin relationships with other characters and they lack this intrinsic magnetism that binds them together (for betteror worse) – if they can somehowfunction completely normal without being influenced by the presence of anotherand magically not even care about each other anymore, then my suspension of disbeliefbreaks. They’re too OOC. (Unless it’s a fic au where they never met or grew uptogether.) These two are TOO canonically wrapped up in their mutual complexesto simply cut ties, wrap up all their unresolved issues with a band-aid,and essentially ignore a core issue of the series for the sake of ‘shipconvenience’ with others. Their canon relationship is too complex to make such simplifiedportrayals of them believable, or even such flimsy ‘solutions’ for their issuesfeasible. Thankfully, we have Hori actively doing all the hard work for us sowe don’t have to worry about such transgressions like that happening in canon. (InHori’s consistent characterizations we trust!)  

Now then, with all of THISestablished, I can finally answer your main question: my opinion on kiri/bakuand todo/deku.

Let’s start with todo/deku:

Because believe it or not, when I was still new to the fandom and in my earlyresearch stages, I actually lowkey shipped them and read plenty of fics aboutthem too! I was open to them as a pair, but still undecided and wary because I didn’t know who to ship withDeku: either Todoroki or Bakugou. I saw all the widespread (western) fandomcontent for td/dk, with the apparent foundations for the ship based on eventsfrom the Sports Festival, where Deku ‘saves’ Todoroki and acts as the catalystto allow him to defrost his issues with his father and realize his true power.I thought, ‘ooh there’s something interesting in there worth looking forwardto; I’ll keep an eye on how canon develops their relationship from here.’

Unfortunately…canon didn’t give me anything else substantial to build on. Andin my case, those are foundations I NEED to be fully on board and convinced fora ship. It was the equivalent of fandom hyping me up for something to lookforward to, with me sitting there with a huge smile and my arms raised inanticipation…only for the rest of the manga to leave me dry. It was a hugedisappointment. Because except for a few scattered incidents, like from theStain arc and maybe the recent ‘it’s ok for heroes to cry sometimes too’moment, canon progress for their relationship has been severely underwhelmingand virtually nonexistent. Todoroki has chilled into becoming a supportive (yetstill socially awkward) friend for Deku yes, but even Iida has had more canon incidents of concern for Deku’s wellbeing,and challenges Deku into becoming a better person/hero with their interactions.(And yet, fandom support for Deku and Iida is virtually nonexistent incomparison, because their friendship resembles the camaraderie between bros, Iguess??)    

So then I was like, ‘wait, am I missing something here? WHY does the fandomlove td/dk so much, when their canon interactions are so limited, and the onlybig thing that’s happened between them was all the way back in the SportsFestival??’ So, I went and investigated the potential of their relationshipfurther in fanfics (which are quite numerous and popular on a03 I might add).

After taking a look, I began to see trends. Most td/dk fics are heavily skewed in Todoroki’s favor, tothe point of being practically one-sided in character development. The mainconflict in almost all their ficnarratives revolves around solving Todoroki’s issues with his father and comingto terms with HIS powers, leaving Deku as a passive, supporting participant inhelping Todoroki out with his problems. Which, while the two of them could bondtogether over their missing/difficult father issues, after a while this same familyconflict gets old and stale. What else is there? What about Deku’s problems for equality’s sake?He’s the main protagonist! How abouthis difficulties in learning how to make One for All his own too? Ah nope, hecan’t canonically confide in Todorokiabout the secrets of his quirk, now can he. ;) Oh wait. What about his problems with Bakugou? Is the biggest elephant in the room going to be ignored for the sakeof typical couple melodrama, or is my fav character going to be demonized so that Todoroki, the ‘prince’on a white horse, can ‘save’ Deku, the ‘damsel’ in distress, from him?! No way. And THAT is another hugeproblem I have with the ship.

Because in all the fics I’ve read of them, I never once was convinced ofDeku’s feelings for Todoroki. I can understand Todoroki gaining a passing crushon Deku thanks to their fight in the Sports Festival. But Deku? How does heeven fall for him? Just becauseTodoroki is nice and considerate and listens to him? Like a friend? (Deku has Uraraka and Iida forthat too, what makes Todoroki any more special than them in Deku’s life?) Thisties in to my previously mentioned suspension of disbelief and ooc territorynow. Because Deku is not some haplessdamsel in distress ready to be swept off his feet and easily charmed by somepotential suitor; he’s a BAMF with a heroic spirt that’s even feared byBakugou. And these traits are so rarely utilized to their full potential intd/dk fics - Todoroki’s influence rarely even challenges or inspires Deku toBECOME the best he can be to draw out his latent potential. (Iida’s canonicallydone more in that regard thanTodoroki’s ever done.) Again, it feels too one-sided in Todoroki’s favor toimprove as a better person/hero.

Oh yeah, and since Deku became one of Todoroki’s first ‘true friends,’ forTodoroki to fall for him feels like putting too many eggs in one basket,without giving Todoroki the chance tobranch out and make normal/healthy relationships with OTHERS first beforesettling down. He’s a socially awkward kid emotionally repressed by domesticabuse; for him to latch onto Deku, the ‘first’ person he’s finally (andliterally) warmed up to, feels like the budding symptoms of unhealthy copingmechanisms and compensating for Todoroki’s deeper emotional issues. Where it thenbecomes Deku’s ‘responsibility’ to care for the turnout of his wellbeing, whenNO - Deku’s got plenty of his OWN issues to become burdened with someone else’s on top of those. Plus in canon,Todoroki’s doing just fine and is perfectly capable of handling his personal problems onhis own without having to depend on Deku.

Again, it’s all touchy territory that feels like it sidelines the mainintent of the series itself – by branching off into the deep end of Todoroki’sangst at the expense of Deku’s, or worse: simply wrapping everything up with afluffy bow called ‘the power of love.’ Nuh-uh, not only is that immenselyidealistic and unrealistic, but it’s totally not the kind of content I signedup for when I started the series. I’m frankly not interested in delving into thoseoff-tangent topics in opposition to canon, where Deku’s problems are oftensidelined, his characterization compromised, and my fav character (Kacchan) eitherbecomes an exaggerated, antagonizing impediment to their ship or is simplytreated like he doesn’t even exist. (My patience and willing suspension of disbeliefonly go so far.)

In the end, Todoroki’s a supportingcharacter. In a tertiary tier after the protagonist (Deku) and the deuteragonist(Bakugou). Yet in td/dk fics he’s almost always turned into a main protagonistsomehow. I can understand his appeal and why he’s so popular in the fandom, yes(and I like him too!), but there’s a point where this exposure becomes TOO much,the limit to his available canon issues becomes saturated and repetitive, and itultimately becomes so tiring to keepcoming back and addressing the same topics in fanon when canon has alreadymarched on to focus on more pressing issues. I’m more interested in exploring those other things.

So nowadays, whenever I see td/dk content, I go ‘ayy that’s nice (or cute),’and keep on scrolling. It doesn’t bother me, but it doesn’t interest meanymore either. I probably won’t touch anymore fics of them together either;I’ve seen and had enough. I’m actually more receptive to seeing Todorokiinteract and develop friendships with other characters, like Inasa (the wind guy from the rival school)or even Momo for instance. Either of those ships I see around, I’m cool withtoo.

The final line: I don’t ship them (anymore), because canon swayed me over with the more pressing and compelling developments of bkdk.   

NOW, it’s time to talk about kiri/baku:      

To start, I actually LOVE Kirishima as a character. And I’ve alreadyestablished upfront that my fav character in the series is Kacchan. So whatgives? It turns out their ship has neverbeen on my radar.

Kirishima is a great character, but I’ve only ever seen him as a supportive bro. To EVERYONE in their class. Whichis precisely how Hori designed him: to be a compassionate/empathetic nice guywho bridges the gaps between the class with his vigorous enthusiasm and support(same role that Denki shares, by the way). And he fulfils this role splendidly.But he ALSO has his own insecurities and developing friendships with manyothers in the class – Denki, Mina, and Deku included. All of those people areimportant to him (and I’m cool with all their ships with him too). Kirishimadoes not solely revolve aroundBakugou.  

It’s true that near the beginning of the series, Bakugou was an angry loner,Kirishima trailed after him on his own accord, and after seeing his version of‘manliness’, decided to stick by him and support him, because Kiri saw thepositives of his character that ‘no one’ else bothered to see. (NOT true; Dekuhas always seen and admired Kacchan’spositive traits since they were children.)And so what’s canonically established is a budding friendship where Kirishimafulfils his given role to bridge gaps (whenever Bakugou strays away from theclass), essentially working as a rubber band plot device, and as a secondperspective – aka a fresh lens, for the audience to view Bakugou’s positivequalities.

All of this I’m cool with. I actually enjoyseeing their canon interactions and the kind of fun, slapstick way they bounceoff each other. (I even like the concept of Dragon!Kiri too!) BUT, it’s whenfanon starts twisting their canon relationship into shippy territory, that’swhere things start getting…ugly, at least for me.  

Remember, I’ve always only seen Kirishima as a supportive bro, and I MEAN that. They have the samered eyes. The same style of spikey hair. The same pumped up mannerisms whenthey get going. Too many similarities that rub me the wrong way when put in aromantic context. (The only difference is that one of them is the soft-hearted ‘niceguy,’ and the other is the outwardly prickly ‘asshole.’) To me, to ship them feels like the equivalentof taking the parallel ends of two polarized magnets: you can manually forcethem close together, but in the end, they cannot touch because the same ends ofmagnets naturally repel. Now, flip one of those magnets around (aka turn it intoDeku), and boom, the opposite ends attract with explosive force. And THAT ishow bkdk feels to me in comparison.

However, the kr/bk fandom doesn’t stop there. I know there exists plenty of fics about them, but I’ve never read any, and frankly, I never will, not even for curiosity’ssake. Because from the overabundance of otherfandom content, I already know what their ship dynamic is about. And it doesnot appeal to me at all.

Remember how I said Kacchan is my favorite. I do not appreciate when thefandom warps him into either a demonized or castrated caricature of himself –aka when they turn him into someone he most definitely is NOT, all for the sakeof a ship. Or worse: when they use Kiri’s relationship as a means of changingBakugou into a character they findmore appealing. NO. Even more worse: when they treat Kiri’s whole character as awalking plot device for ALL of Bakugou’s positive character development. Fuckno! Kirishima doesn’t deserve this dehumanizing treatment by the fans, andneither does my fav, getting subjected to this…betrayal to his whole character.

What am I talking about? When fans insist that Kiri is the ONLY personBakugou can be ‘nice’ to, outright forsaking or ignoring the canon developmentseither of them have with other characters – what about Denki, the rest of the‘Bakusquad’? Or Deku? Remember my dislike for ignoring the elephant in the room back in my spiel about td/dk?Well here, it’s infinitely times worse.

Because Kiri does not become aconvenient narrative replacement to ‘solve’ all of Bakugou’s problems or themeans to correct his bad behavior. It’s not even Kiri’s business orresponsibility to do so! (Same deal if Uraraka is shipped in Kiri’s place.) Hispresence doesn’t challenge Bakugou’s current conduct or world views to improvehimself as a better person, OR actively affect his drive to become the best hero.At most, Kiri endures the brunt of Bakugou’s outbursts when they happen(because he can harden with his quirk, he can ‘take’ it, and their banterbecomes ‘humorous’ and ‘harmless’…no, it absolutely does not) and amicably slides off any further implications with a ‘heyman, that’s not cool’, or excuses/accepts it with a ‘it’s fine because he’s justbeing himself.’ Now we have a situation where Kiri becomes a passive ‘butt-monkey’to Bakugou’s whims and actually enableshis unacceptable behavior to persist. And Bakugou somehow becomes fully invested in a single confidant who babies andpicks up after him (how the heck? no way would he allow himself to get ropedinto a relationship like that, if any at all. He’s strong and independent enoughto handle himself fine.). Even when it’s portrayed where Kiri is the ‘only’ oneBakugou’s nice to, they’d exist in a vacuum tunnel, sealed off from the influenceof others, and become a spiraling fester-hole of static development. None ofthese prospects are the ‘healthy’ long-term results that fandom seems to claimthey are. Tell me, if Bakugou was reallyan abusive character, would his behavior magically ‘fix’ itself simply thanksto Kiri’s passive influence or ‘the power of his understanding kindness and love’?The answer is a resounding and definite NO. The only person who can canonically stand up to Bakugou’s behavior (andnot brush it off), fundamentally challengehis world views and complexes, match him in equal and opposite intensity with themutual drive to be the best, and receivethe full extent of his turbulent feelings, is Deku.

This is what I’m referring to when I say fandom often ‘ignores the elephantin the room,’ because THIS (Deku and Kacchan’s relationship) is an established,ongoing and important core issue of the series itself, that many shippers wouldrather sideline for the priority, current gratification, and fluffy convenienceof an opposing ship. Aka, simply slap them together with the first nice friend theymeet (in both Todo and Baku��s cases, it’s the ‘too many eggs in one basket’problem again…), who will solve all their problems and work to ‘change’ theminto better people…somehow? No, that’s the case of unrealistic, wishful thinking bad writing andtaking the easy way out when something -the elephant in the room- is too challengingand complex to tackle head on. Thankfully, Hori IS tackling their story head onas purposely intended, so I don’t have to worry about canon jumping the sharkon the progress of their relationship.  

So, instead of Kiri being shipped with Bakugou, I much prefer him as a supportingcharacter (a supportive bro!!) who helps ease Bakugou into social/emotionalsituations that he’d normally avoid (which is how Hori originally designedhim??? to bridge those gaps -aka Bakugou’s loner distance - in the class) I’veread plenty of bkdk fics where Kiri becomes the mvp BECAUSE of his natural abilityto do this! With him as a much-needed wingman, voice of empathetic reason, and trustedsecond opinion who Bakugou can confide in to help confront his chronicemotional constipation over Deku. Shipperscan claim that Kiri helps Baku come to terms and become receptive to ‘softer,’ affectionatefeelings when they’re together, when it’s actually the opposite: Kiri becomes astepping stone for Bakugou to learn how to ‘make friends’ with other people whenthey’re apart. ‘Other people’ meaning: Denki, the ‘squad’, Todoroki, the restof the class…and most importantly, Deku.Let my son -Kacchan- learn how to form healthy, genuine relationships withpeople again, so he can gain the necessary experience and maturity to reproach hislifelong treatment of Deku and decide to patch up their relationship on his own terms. This, I feel, is a much more satisfyingoutcome and effective use of Kiri’s character, both in his involvement withBakugou and for the long-run benefit of the series itself.

But instead of seeing it this way, much of the (western) fandom overexaggerates the importance of Kiri and Baku’s relationship, to the point it notonly overshadows the content of other ships, but obfuscates the actual translated GEN contentof canon itself. (WHY!?!) I’m not even going to touch the propensity, hypocrisy, and irony of their shippers to harassand bully others for their opposing shipping preferences (that’s a whole other can of worms). Overall,it’s gotten so bad and obnoxiously rampant that I’ve been forced to block the ship tag for my own sanity and enjoyment of theseries. The ONLY time it’s ever beenrequired for me to use the blacklist function here, and that’s saying something.

Therefore: I support their friendship as supportive bros, but kr/bk as a ship was never on myradar. I’ve never shipped it, and I will notbecome interested in their potential as a pair. I used to be ok with seeing fan content of them around…until thefandom essentially and unfortunately soured it into a notp for me. Welp!   

And there we have it, my full opinion on both ships. I hope that satiatesanyone’s curiosity on the matter, as so far I’ve had plenty of personal reasonsto stay in my own lane and only show my avid support for bkdk. This I’ve confidently decided and I will continue todo so, for as long as I’m invested in the series.  

For some further reading and similar informed opinions:  

http://explodo-smash.tumblr.com/post/165154054112/not-to-pit-ships-against-one-another-but-i

http://explodo-smash.tumblr.com/post/163895267877/why-do-you-ship-bakugou-and-deku-if-its-abusive

http://tinyshinysylveon.tumblr.com/post/168731953134

https://punkbakugo.tumblr.com/post/170514358890/do-you-think-that-the-fandom-over-exaggerates

Also related: my opinions about Kac/chako. And Izu/Ocha.

Edit: now cross-posted on a03

[mystech-master]

Okay I wanna actually consider the implications of the four series in BBTAG interacting, no simple plots or anything. Cause looking at the spoilers (going to try and provide as little detail as possible so don’t worry), it just feels like, character from world A meets two characters from world B-D and meets another character from any of the worlds, the later teams up with them and fights the next two. There is no casual interaction/meeting that won’t end with a fight in this.

These are my own opinions, and they may vary with yours greatly.

Lemme get into the grit of this, super long post beware:

Blazblue

I’m pretty sure we can ll agree that a large percent, not all, but a good chunk of the BB cast are angsty assholes, or at least not the most pleasant of individuals. They have a reason to be like this, but they are still not the nicest people around.

I honestly feel like half the fight are a result of:

Character A:: hey bitch, obey me and do the thing

Character B: what did you call me? fuck you no way

Character A: do it bitch

C B: fuck you

C A: FUCK YOU!

FIGHT

Seriously if you guys met someone from Blazblue and didn’t know who they were you might be drained dealing with them.

Their situation is a BIIIIT more stressful than anything these other guys have been through, and as many people have said they RE the more powerful characters in the crossover. But not everyone has their....mindset. As we will discuss later on.

Persona

Okay for just a minute imagine that the Persona 3-4 cast aren’t flanderized into fighting gamery where only their base personality traits are shown.

Admit it, how many of you were pissed when Chie was reduced to “KUNG-FU/MEAT!” or Akihito being reduced to ‘TRAINING/PROTEIN!”? Dumbing down their characters into these much simpler versions.

The Persona characters only fought in the Arena games against Shadow Doubles, or because Shadow Labrys was twisting their words, the only fight I recall happening between actual people without this was Kanji being an idiot, to which fighting game logic says “It’s no use, you need to beat the shit out of him”.

Not counting Sho since he’s an antagonist, you’re supposed to fight him.

The Persona characters are all BFFs and Power of Friendship is their thing, so I doubt they would immediately be hostile to anyone.

Under Night-In Birth

Okay I’ve only recently learned about UNI and it seems like an okay premise. But it also feels like they drop the ball a lot in terms of plot and or naming names.

The issue is this: Take a shot for whenever you hear the reason for an arcade mode fight being “Because we’ve met on this night.” That is a bullshit reason. it’s supposed to be some “rule of the night” or some garbage but it just makes it seem like everyone wants an excuse to kick the shit out of each other.

You could easily just say hat the Hollow Night is an inherently violent place, because:

You got Voids running amok during this Night, and you don’t want your existence being destroyed. i mean these things are how people get their powers of course they’re running around.

Rival factions: From Licht Kreis, to Amnesia, to EFG, to Night Blade, you can simply have the fights be due to the rivalry or something.

In-Births who just wanna show off their power. Like Carmine being his Ax-Crazy self, or Enkidu looking for a worthy opponent.

And if those don’t work for the situation, find something. Like Hyde and Yuzuriha can fight because she wants to see if he’s ready to handle the Night. Or he and Phonon fight because he pisses her off when she wants the dominatrix queen vibe and he’s ruining it.

Also a few characters were all “We will now fight In-Birth scum, I will defeat you.” and it’s like “.....soooo, you’re calling them out on being an in-Birth, when EVERYONE here is an In-Birth?”.....logic.....who needs it am I right?

UNI is the least well know of these three franchises and I hope this game gets it into the limelight so we can PLEASE have a continuing story. I mean very new re-release (no, not new game, re-release) just adds new characters, and more backstory. Nothing ever moves forward. We don’t even know what’s anon because all of the Arcade Modes don’t connect..

But in terms of them interacting with the other franchises, it really depends on the character, and if they know this sin’t the Hollow Night (where some kind of magic field heals them, so they don’t have that safety net in other worlds.

RWBY

Okay this is my personal headcanon here but I feel like it sticks

As anime-esque as RWBY is, it ISN’T an anime. It was made by western developers, with western views, and a western sense of humor.

there was originally going to be a bathouse/hot springs scene, but they scrapped it because they are underage. In Japan they would’ve gone full hog with it. Yang’s flirtatiousness never goes beyond the kind of stuff you’d see in a high school sitcom while if it was an anime she���d be showing off WAY more cleavage. Weiss never complains about her rack (or lack there of), etc.

So, IMO, RWBY characters would play the straight-man role to all this anime craziness.

Fighting Games flanderize their characters because you need to have their personalities fit their gameplay quotes. and you can’t re-do ALL of their dialogue whenever some big character development thing happens, that’d be WAY too much work (see the Chie and Akihiko thing above)

And admit it, some.... a LOT....of anime characters have a sort of craziness that mot people wouldn’t not be to fond of in reality. I know Nora is pretty bubbly and weird but she is a bit more tame than say.....Taokaka from Blazblue, or Mika from Under Night. In RWBY Nora does know how to be a bit mature, in a full on anime world, she’d be twice the Cloudcuckoolander she is now.

RWBY, as  a show first and foremost, even with it’s flaws, the characters develop and grow, and aren’t TOO crazy and quirky. They have their roles and character archetypes, but they are able to grow out of their more hostile and worst aspects and become better people, while still being recognizable. While fighting games need to keep a character acting how they always have, or at least keep them close to their base personality because that is what the character is advertised as, plus they need to keep that one Running Gag going.

Plus I just wanna see these non-assholes interact with the asshole BB cast and not be pulled into their gag/bit and call them out on how mean, or jerky they are being. Because be honest do you honestly think anyone from these other worlds would listen to or obey Rachel or Kokonoe if they mocked them or were like “Bitch do the thing”?

BBTAG treats all the characters like they are from the same world/franchise, with the same conventions that govern one world making em do the gag we expect. Persona and RWBY characters wouldn’t jump right into a fight, Under Night I don’t know it depends on whether or not they think this is all part of the Hollow Night, but Blazblue characters are kind of Blood Knights.

Try not to think of them in the context of this game, think of how these characters would act, with their personalities from their original franchises, and NOT twisted to fit the gags and craziness of this crossover. Don’t think of how anime-Ruby would act, think of how RWBY-Ruby would act.

this might just be me taking things WAY too seriously, but that’s what I do. I might be talking out of my ass about how characterization and character development work in two different mediums in two different countries, but it just feels weird to see a character’s personality be tottally twisted mjust so they can fit some gag or play along with another gag that they, in their home series, wouldn’t follow in the slightest.

I apologize if I stepped on anyone's toes here. But if you need to call me out on it, please be respectful. I understand my viewpoints vary greatly from the norm, but don’t freak out. If you must call me out on something, do it calmly.

TL;DR: Try to imagine all the characters in BBTAG with their personalities from their original franchises. Not twisted to fit the jokes of one series, not flanderized. How would the characters, in their original characterization, interact with one another?

[lovetheangelshadow]

N'Pressions: Trolls-The Beat Goes on

It’s funny, sometimes I wonder if Dreamworks is trying to outdo Disney at their own game like they used to in their earlier years. If you’re a thirty something nerdy birdie like myself, you’ll most likely remember the number of shows based off their film franchises that Disney used to put out (Aladdin, Timon and Pumbaa, Buzz Lightyear and Star Command, Emperor’s New School, and Lilo and Stitch just to name a few). Trolls: the Beat Goes on is their latest tv series cash in show to appear on Netflix and Dreamworks TV taking place after the film.

I will be honest here, Trolls did not leave a good n’pression on me (ba bum tis). While not as painful to sit through like Bee movie was, it definitely wasn’t something I would go back to repeated viewings like Kung Fu Panda and How to Train your Dragon had for me. And it is something of a shame because there was quite a bit of good in its favor. I really liked the design of the Trolls (sure they were as marketable as all get but still a nice cute and simple design) and even as monstrous as the Bergens were they never hit that uncanny valley. Even the overall aesthetic of the felted backgrounds and scrapbook animations gave the film a unique appeal. Unfortunately it was dragged down by so much else. I mean, it wasn’t even that bad of a premise either. Bergens thought the only way to feel happiness was eating the super happy Trolls so the Trolls escaped but now some have been captured and Poppy has to save them before they get served up by the Bergens. Simple? Sure, but not everything has to be this uber complicated epic (looking at YOU, Frozen). But oh gods did the film keep spinning it’s wheels. You had so many covers shoved in and they really didn’t add much and they tended to focus on the wrong stuff. I get it, you have to show the romance between Bridget and Gristle to teach the moral; but yeesh was I bored. I get it though, it was pretty clear this was more for kids and not older audiences. Still have to give credit to Timblerlake. He really stepped up since his role in Shrek the Third. Must’ve had practice or something.

So why would I take a look at a show of a movie I didn’t care for? Eh, more of curiosity aaaaaaannnnd I needed something new to listen to while at work. So much like Dawn of the Croods and Home Adventures; Trolls was done in the 2-D style as opposed to keeping to the almost movie quality like Dragons and King Julien have. And I think it works to its advantage. The visuals of the film translate nicely into the 2-D environment and gives more room to work with the world that the Troll film has. On note of the animation itself, it definitely is a step up from Croods and Home. I would put it almost on level with the earlier Disney Afternoon shows which is pretty sparse this day and age. And no, I have nothing against Flash (though I am 90% sure this was Toonboom), but way too often have I seen it being used rather cheaply for broadcasted television. There are some exceptions, but not a lot.

So let’s move on to the storytelling. As stated before, the series takes place after the events of the movie. Trolls and Bergens are trying to get along though cultural ideologies often clash in those episodes. At the time of this review there are thirteen available episodes each split into two eleven minute stories; something that has become fairly common with comedic cartoons these days. And it actually works. The biggest issue I had with the film was that it had so much padding that kept halting the story to fulfill that necessary runtime. With a shorter window, the narrative can remain focused and mostly not waste our time. Poppy and Branch are a couple now and I appreciate how they decided to handle this. Branch is still a semi-paranoid surivialist Troll but he does continually make various efforts to being more open and friendly with the other Trolls. He doesn’t always succeed especially when he forces himself too far and it backfires big time in his face. At the same time he is still the sarcastic burner who will egg Poppy on occasion. Poppy is also more accepting of Branch’s soloist nature and while she will still nudge him forward, she most of the time recognizes when to pull back. Both of them will bring it up if the other goes too far. It’s a cute push and pull thing they’ve got going between them.

Most of the stories are slice of life episodes a lot of them revolve around Troll customs. Seriously, these guys give Ponyville a run for their money. Usually something goes awry usually by either Poppy, Branch, or one of the Snack Pack and it mostly fixed by the end of the episode. Funnily enough, Branch’s episodes usually has him trying to be helpful the Troll populace but pushes it too far that it has an opposite effect; whereas Poppy is trying to make everyone else happy to the point of her own unhappiness or her wellmeangingness is blinded by her optimism and she can’t see right away the consequences of her actions.  The others are more just troublemakers and highjacks ensue. Simple? Sure. But they are bolstered by some pretty clever writing at times and doesn’t feel too juvenile. Yes there are fart jokes and pooping cupcakes. You’re not going to get away from that. Thankfully, those kinds of jokes are tailored back for more witty dialogue and slapstick. Honestly the only episode so far that I didn’t care for was “Trolly Tales” and that was more because Poppy and Branch really felt flanderized and there wasn’t a satisfying payoff at the end.  

The rest of the crew get a little more fleshing out and are for the most part fine. The only character I still despise is Cloud Guy. That guy is a troll and not in the cute fun way either. I sweat he just lives to torment Branch. Anyway, save for I believe three actors (Cooper, Cloud Guy, and Creek) the original cast does not return for this series. I know some people weren’t too happy about that, but I’m not really all that bothered by it. The actors chosen do pretty fine for the most part and carry the songs.

Oh yes, there are musical numbers ladies and gents. Can’t have a series about singing Trolls without them can we? So how does the music hold up here? Honestly? Not bad. Excluding the title there are a total of eight original songs for the series. Personally my feelings on poppy opening tunes is mixed, but the opening theme “Hair in the Air” being a nice short bouncy tune that gets all relevant information across and fudge ruckets is it catchy. Most of the tunes are sung by Poppy or Branch or both. One of the most interesting one’s I’ve heard was the rap battle episode. But to make it more kid friendly they changed it from the traditional diss battle to a compliment battle. Yes, you heard it right. You have to outpraise your opponent. That cannot be an easy thing to do. And thank gods the songs don’t drag things down. I wonder if there is going to be an album of the songs…or do we have to wait years for it (eh MLP?)

So my overall opinion? It’s cute, it’s for kids, and it’s pretty harmless. A lot of the morals are pretty solid (forgiving, too much safety can be smothering, apologies are not excuses for bad behavior). Don’t expect some deep intricate plots here. It’s pretty clear that this is a cash in, but at least they are making the effort of having a good product for you to enjoy. So give it a try and see if it’s your cup of marshmallow. I’m Noctina Noir, and I’m one Nox of a Nobody.

[outoftheinkwell]

I just watched Baymax Returns and ooh goosh do I have thoughts...

Older followers may remember my BH6 phase back in 2014, and those with a sharp wit may even recall me vying for a TV series, like, the week after it came out. So the fact that this finally exists and has been put forth into the media sphere makes me happier than words can describe.

But first, I would kindly like to ask people to leave their comments about the blandness of the series at the door. As it’s been shown from many, many animated pilots in the past, the show is just starting to warm up. Look at Bob’s Burgers, for example. Give it time to grow; don’t snap judge it so quickly. It’s only just begun, after all – and with the Kim Possible creators behind it, I feel confident about it.

I do unfortunately have to agree about the animation style being a little stilted, though I don’t necessarily think the look of the show is a bad thing! I love the influences the animation team drew upon to develop the visual look. I love the overall anime-esque style they pulled out for the character designs and the world’s feel. I love how they were able to translate the look and feel of the super suits into this smaller scale. I love the action scenes. I love the evil Baymax army. AND I LOVE THAT THEY GOT THE ORIGINAL VOICE CAST BACK HOOOMYGOSH. But the anime-esqueness does come with a lack of variety in facial expressions, though again, I have faith.

As far as the story does go, I looove all of the callbacks to the movie – and they weren’t all obvious, either! Granted I had watched the movie the night prior to watching the pilot, but there were things I picked up on right away. Specifically pointing out how Tadashi wanting to help a lot of people. Bringing up Tadashi’s last words to the dean. “It’s really not.” Even the subtle comment about Hiro switching Baymax’s charging system, a SUPER minor detail brought up in the beginning of the movie like look at how closely these writers were paying attention!! Clearly they did their homework in making this series, and as a transitional piece to get the gaps filled in between the end of the movie, I think it works fabulously. Flawlessly, even; a lot is left ambiguous in large time skips and the foreshadowing for the rest of the season is just too cool.

Granville could have been less of a hard ass though, or at least... more subtle about it, I think. And the pacing did take a bit to kick in. But again, I’m chalking this all up to pilot syndrome – and her last exchange with Hiro was really touching. Another thing I’m sort of worried about carrying on post-pilot is Fred’s overbearing, overeager nature and Wasabi’s neuroticism. It’s still way early in the game to worry about or even tell of their flanderization, but I can already sort of see the potential for disaster on a few sides, and I can only hope it will be avoided. I would say between the movie and the pilot, about 98% of interactions and general depictions translated as “in-character” behavior for me. Fred did feel a little out of line sometimes, but at least it was balanced by the in-universe group getting annoyed with him as well.

And screw anyone who says this show isn’t funny!! There were quite a few bits that had me laughing out loud, for sure.

I also love that they’re already starting to worldbuild with district names and fast food chains and transportation!! That’s so cool to me. Noodleburger sounds adorable and delicious. And I looove that they sort of kind of gave Aunt Cass more to do even in the background (and that they got Maya Ruduolph back for her!) And I love love looove the display of all of the tech at the college... from the projects on the Quad to those sick liquid sucking robots in the cafeteria. Again, it really shows a cool level of attention to detail on the part of the staff and animators. I can’t wait to see how this is pushed further.

(Warning for more in-depth death talk below. I wouldn’t usually think to do this, especially given that this hinges on a major plot point in the movie. But I’ll be talking more so about real life death, and something happened a few days ago that I’m a little raw over still, so I don’t want to drop this on anyone out of the blue)

On one final, more personal note (and this is super morbid of me so be warned), it seems like Tadashi is staying gone for good and I’m actually really glad they’re going down that route!? The only reason I bring this up is because a LOT of people seem to think they’re going to bring his character from the comics into the mix or create a new one for him, but I really love the idea of him being on the team THROUGH Baymax.

Part of the reason I connect so deeply with BH6 to begin with is because it came out in the wake of me still trying to move on from the death of my childhood friend, whose life was cut short in a drunk driving accident almost a year prior. Hiro’s struggle to accept that even though he died, Tadashi is still with him through what he’s left behind, hit home really hard. I’m glad it’s already being addressed in the show and used to the storytellers’ advantage.

So tl;dr: I’m really looking forward to the direction this series is headed from here on out. I don’t know what it is about these super nerds that keeps drawing me back to them, but I love them and can’t wait to see what heroic misadventures they get into.

[marvelandponder]

M.A. Larson Roasts the Fandom

Well, originally it was his, at least. From what we can gather, it seems this was an old script they had lying around from when Larson worked on the show, and they’ve retooled it to work for the current season.

Who exactly did the rearranging is still a mystery, although if I had to throw a guess out there, it would make sense that this season’s story editors Joanna Lewis and Kristine Songco (otherwise known as the Lady Writers) were the ones giving the script its updates.

If so, that explains why it came out so fantastically despite Larson saying he wasn’t happy with the final product.

From what very little I know about the industry, it’s not uncommon for writers to watch their scripts be turned into something totally, soul-crushingly different from their original vision. So, I’m hoping that behind-the-scenes communication issue is fixed. Even if it doesn’t always affect episode quality, we ended up losing a good writer over it, and I can’t imagine it feels good to put your heart and soul into something only for it to be changed before it airs.

That being said, it’s almost ironic that it happened with such a meta episode. Larson usually gets blamed for the Twilicorn fiasco despite his original script being totally different. So it’s kinda funny that Magical Mystery Cure got him flak for years and this episode — which ended up being sort of an encore after his grand finale with Amending Fences — is yet another episode that was changed without his consent but this time it ended up being pretty well loved (on the whole).

Life has a weird sense of humour like that.

I had to start with that behind-the-scenes stuff because I’m shocked—shocked—that they managed to make an episode that’s somehow even more meta than Slice of Life.

Not only that, but because of its weird production history it’s an episode that perfectly blends the old feel of MLP with the new. I really can’t tell you how much of Larson’s script they kept intact (he seemed to imply not a lot, but it feels so much like classic MLP that I almost refuse to believe some of this stuff wasn’t from him), but this is such a weirdly perfect episode because it brings that Return of Harmony feel to the season 7 version of these characters and this world.

And to top it all off, as a long-time fan of the show whose been in the fandom since season 2, the ponifed mirror it holds up to the fans is just hilarious. 

Pictured above: us rn

Like, actually the best thing. It’s a funny episode for causal fans, but for hardcore fans, it’s amazing—and any commentary that can add a layer for those in the know, but not detract anything for the little fans or casual viewers, is just golden.

It also sort of exemplifies what there is to love about Larson. Even if nothing but his original concept ended up being used (still don’t believe that), it makes perfect sense that this came from him. The smart edge he was willing bring to Pony will forever be missed.

But, at least we have one last hurrah! Sort of. So without further introduction, allow me to fangirl over and pretend to analyze an episode about the dangers of missing the point by over-analyzing!

… wait.

Not Just a “It’s Just a Kids Show” Argument

Okay, so when you’re a huge fan of cartoons made for children, you tend to come across this argument a fair bit: it’s just a kids show. Why are you looking so deep into it? Don’t over-analyze it, it’s made for kids.

At glance you might think that’s what this episode is arguing, too, that if adult fans want to watch, they should keep in mind that it’s just for kids and not overthink it.

But that argument tends to come with the connotation that kids shows aren’t deep at all and can’t be meaningful because they’re made for kids. And it doesn’t take me to tell you, a cartoon fan, that that’s just not the case.

This episode isn’t devaluing what kids enjoy, or even saying all deep thought over what was intended to be fun, silly, and heartfelt is bad. But it is a reminder not to get so lost in that overthinking that you miss out on what the show’s really about: the fun, silly, cute horses learning cheesy, but still incredibly earnest lessons on life, love, and (of course) friendship.

And this isn’t exactly a middle finger to the fandom, either---I’ve seen it taken that way a few times, too. If you remember Slice of Life and even the convention scenes of Stranger than Fanfiction at all, you’ll remember M.A. Larson (who wrote Slice of Life) and the rest of the staff actually love our creativity and world-building. They dedicated an entire episode, the show’s 100th, to characters the fans created themselves. 

And yes, even our analysis community is well-loved by the staff if Quibble Pants is anything to go by (his character may grate on Dash’s nerves from time to time, but he’s also portrayed as incredibly smart, inventive, and learns a lesson in the end to become a better pony).

So, please don’t misunderstand: they do still love our passion and even our crazy, overly-deep ideas, and you can even make criticisms if you want (I wouldn’t go so far as to say it’s an anti-criticism thing, either), but the point is that we need just need to keep things in perspective, or else miss out on the fun of it all.

And, that this show is meant for kids. Not “just for kids,” like that’s a bad thing, but that kids are, have been, and will forever be the target audience, and that’s something we should always have a respect for.

I’ve always loved that about the staff. That they have a great love for the young fans of the show, and they’ll always put them first. It’s the way it should be, even with a an older fanbase that they also love dearly (despite our many, many flaws; which come to think of it mirrors the lesson the mane 6 are trying to teach).

So, yeah, this is one of the funniest lessons the show has had to date, and but also one that carries a lot of meaning, for fans young and old.

I warned you that this would be a lot of fangirling.

Character Growth, Comedy, and Criticisms

God, this episode has so much going for it… I’m just sitting here trying to think of where to start and remembering just how much there is to enjoy here.

Okay, for starters, he nailed the fanbase’s biggest hangups over the years:

Fluttershy: Learning the same lesson over and over Pinkie Pie: Considered flanderized when she seems too silly/not grounded in the moment (think Filli Vanilli, the colouring book in Princess Twilight Part 1, or the balloon distracting her in Three’s a Crowd) Rainbow Dash: Hardcore fans claim she’s perfect, is best pony Twilight: Was better before the wings, or would’ve been better if ____ had happened Applejack and Rarity are hilariously switched. Rarity is the background pony getting all the criticism every time she does anything (has an episode), and Applejack is the one that’s praised to the point of obsession.

Spike, ironically, doesn’t have a role in this episode, and you can tell just based on some of her lines that Starlight took his spot in the rewrites (Spike totally would’ve stayed behind with Rarity in the exact same way). I’m a bit bummed they didn’t put in a joke or two for him, because he did write in that journal, too. They could’ve even commented on whether or not he’s considered part of the friend group (a major character or a supporting character), but there’s only so much running time.

I love that the CMC just got popular on the playground for their entries. Like, no drama there, they’re just loved because they’re adorable and sweet, and isn’t that accurate though?

Also: they actually are going to have an episode later this season about that summer camp idea they had, called Marks and Recreation. And some people wonder why I love the later seasons.

And I like that by calling some things out in-episode, like Fluttershy’s baby steps or Pinkie’s silliness, they actually get a chance to say, yeah, you might be legitimately right, but here’s how they’ve grown as characters.

Even just listening to some of the lyrics of the song: Rainbow Dash’s ego is huge, but it gives her the courage to fail, Pinkie might seem overly excited on the outside, but it’s just because she’s so excited to be with her friends. Twilight’s was a bit rushed to get to the chorus, but aside from hers, they each get at the heart of why these characters are so compelling and endearing and I just?

I just really love that.

Oh and I want to take a moment to appreciate the design of the song, because Daniel Ingram puts in so much freakin’ thought to these sometimes. The point of the song is that their flaws are what make them who they are, and by extension make them friends, so what does Ingram do?

Not only gives them each a verse to detail one of their biggest flaws, but lets them come together in perfect harmony for the chorus. That perfectly matches the meaning of the song.

If it sounds similar to another season 7 song because of that harmony, you’re not wrong: it’s similar in structure to Until the End of Time (or was it When We’re with Our Team?), only that was half a joke song: the point was that in comparison to Starlight and Trixie, the girls have a ridiculously easy time getting along. Super catchy and upbeat, but also a lot more vague than Flawless because it’s focusing on just how well they get along after all this time of being friends. So, this episode’s song ends up being the more meaningful of the two.

Oh, and then there’s Starlight Glimmer in a supporting role! See, this season has been letting her play the supporting role instead of always being the star or costar in her appearances, which really helps integrate her more and more into the cast. Even though she comes up with the idea of showing the girls they’re appreciated, she doesn’t overshadow their efforts to solve the problem.

A part of me doesn’t like that she had to take Spike’s role in the episode to do it, and again, that would’ve been remedied if Spike had a small joke about being on the run from crazy fans asking how close he is to Twilight and the girls really. It’s not like whoever revised this episode didn’t have a great sense of humour too---if nothing else, our Mystery Editor(s) definitely must’ve put in Starlight’s line about needing to copy the Communist Manifesto, so I’m sure they also could’ve reworked something funny for Spike quickly.

But at least we have a Spike episode this coming week to help make up for it.

Back to this episode, can we just. 

Can we JUST appreciate the comedy?

Not even ‘oh this episode made the giggles’ but just like... the sheer variety of kinds of jokes? We had slapstick, we had sight gags, we had things floating into frame, we had the frame moving over to the punchline, we had ridiculously hilarious expressions, character humour, smartly written lines, and to put the cherry on the cake of course, we had meta humour.

Like, this episode is a comedic gold mine.

It makes me appreciate the different kinds of humour the show has to offer. Dr. Wolf just recently made a video on the lack of slapstick in MLP in recent seasons, and as a fan of director Edgar Wright (Scott Pilgrim, Shaun of the Dead, Hot Fuzz, At World’s End, Baby Driver, etc), I recently watched a video on how he does visual comedy like no other director. Give it a watch if you’re interested.

So, yeah, since most episodes have one or two styles of comedy they rely more heavily on, it’s just refreshing to get a full buffet.

Oh, but even after the lesson, I should probably still say something critical in this this critical analysis, shouldn’t I?

Well, fine. 

For one, the townsponies viewing the mane 6 differently once they know their personal thoughts is somewhat reasonable, but if you take a step back from the meta of the episode, it does put this episode in the category of: the town acts like jerks for an episode... episode

I find it hilarious and don’t have much of a problem with it, but I realize that for some, this is an actual problem because this is supposed to be such a loving, kind world.

At least this time there’s a reason for them to go total Jerk---unlike, say the marketplace in Putting Your Hoof Down or the squabbling delegates of Princess Spike---but for some this is going to be an issue.

Also, you have to wonder if they censored some things in the journal, because otherwise, everyone now knows Daring Do is A.K. Yearling...

... unless that’s what upcoming episode Daring Done is about. Have I mentioned I love the continuity in this show?

Oh, and I think I might make the details section its own post this time. Normally save a space at the bottom to highlight small details I liked in an episode, but this post has already become a huge love-letter, so I should probably spare your dash from being eaten alive.

So, overall, to me, this episode is kind of masterful. Larson was definitely the man for the job: I can’t think of anyone else who could so eloquently put the fandom in their place without straight up insulting them---or have the cojones to try! All while reminding the fandom of all the reasons there are to like the show in the first place!

Brilliant in concept, and in execution, so even though I spent this post praising Larson himself, I’ve also gotta give some love to the current staff members for this one. Like I said, it blends classic MLP sensibilities with all the polish, development, and emphasis on continuity of the current seasons, and for that, it’s a truly unique, wonderfully insightful episode.

And right off the heels of The Perfect Pear, which was an emotional masterpiece in my eyes, too! Right now, I’ve gotta say, it’s good to be an MLP fan.

Need more pony? I always do. That’s why I have all these episode reviews and editorials for you! And to make it easier, have the last three things I’ve done:

Hard to Say Anything Review, Honest Apple Review, and SciTwi v.s. Twilight

Year of the Pony

Special Thanks to Millennial Dan on Deviantart, who made the Microphone vector for the logo! And Kishmond for the book vector!

Is MLP Officially the Most Meta Cartoon Yet or What? 

[wineanddinosaur]

We Asked 16 Brewers: What’s the ‘Weirdest’ Beer You Ever Tried to Brew?

No idea or ingredient is off limits in today’s brewing world. There are beers made with Maine lobsters and Mangalitsa pigs, candied ginger and gingerbread cookies, human urine, Norwegian money, and yeast harvested from beard hairs (no, seriously).

Craft brewers are a creative bunch, and that means sometimes things get weird (even out-of-this-world weird). Here, 16 brewers share the strangest beers they’ve ever made.

“Like all brewers who were previously homebrewers, I dabbled in a lot of weird sh*t. But I think the weirdest beer I brewed was an imperial stout with Atomic FireBalls candy. I was hoping for a nice cinnamon-roast-sweet thing, but it ended up tasting exactly like beef jerky. That was a dumper. Another weird beer was my second brew ever, which was a fruited ‘lambic.’ I brewed this one with my college roommates, and we pitched a tube of White Labs Brettanomyces yeast, and nothing else for primary fermentation, not knowing that their pitch rates for Brettanomyces at the time were one-tenth the size of a normal pitch. Then to top it off after the extremely slow fermentation, we threw a bunch of old freezer-burned berries into the plastic fermenter. That one tasted like an old, dirty rubber band and freezer-burned berries. Ew.” — Mitch Ermatinger, Co-Owner and Head of Fermentation, Speciation Artisan Ales

“My weirdest brew was a one-barrel batch of a kettle sour we did with Little Hug Fruit Barrels, those little sugary, fruity drinks we called ‘quarter waters’ as kids. We used no actual water, replacing it entirely with 800 containers of blue raspberry Little Hugs in the mash and sparge. The yeast struggled with the preservatives, fermenting very slowly and stopping a bit earlier than we had hoped. The final beer was bluish green, with a touch of sweetness, but tasted better than we feared. We also served it with lemonade as a shandy. People still ask us when we’re brewing the Little Hugs beer again.” — Ryan Diehl, Co-Founder and Brewer, Imprint Beer Co.

“The weirdest beer I made was a dry stout with mussels, about nine years ago when I had just discovered oyster stouts and I wanted to interpret it in a Neapolitan way. I still hadn’t opened the Birrificio Flegreo, but I dabbled in homebrewing and I decided to give it a try using mussels directly in the boiling process. The experiment turned out well and resulted in a slightly salted beer with a rich and persistent foam. I called it Stout & Co. because the Italian word for mussels is ‘cozze.’ I will absolutely retry the experiment!” – Chiara Bolognino, Co-Owner and Brewmaster, Birrificio Flegreo

“As homebrewers, there was a time we were experimenting a lot with the possibilities of gruit, changing hops for herbs. We tried all kinds of different herbs from our garden: alehoof, yarrow, mugwort… One of the most extreme versions was a test beer we made with gentian root, added both at the end of boil and on the cold side, together with bitter oranges. Because of our wild-yeast culture, the lactobacillus produced a lot of lactic acid. So it started pretty sour, but then gave way slowly to a long lingering bitter finish, as gentian root is one of the most bitter herbs. We took the beer to a festival in Amsterdam, Carnivale Brettanomyces, and it was definitely a love-it-or-hate-it beer. On a professional level, we made this beer again, but we decided to use aged hops in the beginning of the boil, just to temper the lactobacillus, and to use a bit less of the gentian root, to balance the beer more.” — Tom Jacobs, Co-Founder and Co-Brewer, Antidoot Wild Fermenten

“My supply rep stopped by the brewpub and happened to be carrying a small baggy of food-grade glitter. He asked me if I was interested — I know this sounds like a drug deal! — and I told him I wasn’t sure, so he left the glitter behind. A few weeks later I was blending a keg of What a Trip, a 10 percent ABV Belgian tripel with a prickly pear puree when out of the corner of my eye I noticed the small glitter baggy. It was just sitting there tempting me! I must have felt the magic in the brewery that day because I didn’t hesitate to sprinkle the glitter in the keg along with the puree. The result was quite magical. The beer tasted just how I expected with complex fruity esters, spice characteristics, and a melon-fig sweetness from the puree. While the glitter didn’t affect the taste of the beer, it was a feast for the eyes! When poured into a glass it danced around like stardust.” — Nacho Cervantes, Head Brewer, New Original Breweries

“The term ‘weirdest’ is way relative. For me, I’d have to say one of my ‘weirdest’ ideas was hatched on a trip to Italy when I visited a highly traditional acetaria, a place where they have been making real balsamic vinegar for generations. My first thought was: This stuff is awesome, how can I use it in a beer? Soon after I thought of a Flanders-style sour ale, as balsamic vinegar would not be out of character in that sort of flavor profile. So I brewed a base beer and aged it in red-wine barrels, as is how traditional balsamic starts off, with appropriate cultures and added balsamic in judicious amounts at points during a 20-month aging process. The result was our Philsamic (so named without my consent, which is another story), a balsamic vinegar-infused, wood-aged, Flanders-inspired sour ale we now brew at Area Two, our new wood-aging facility down the road from Two Roads. A beer fermented with balsamic vinegar? Maybe not so weird after all.” — Phil Markowski, Co-Owner and Brewmaster, Two Roads Brewing Company

“I think it has to be our Nightwood, which we released recently but brewed back in the fall of 2016. It was meant to be a black Berliner weisse of sorts, using our usual turbid mash, short boil, aged hopping, and coolshipping, but using some local midnight wheat and foreign de-bittered black malt for color. While the wort hitting the coolship was jet black, after spontaneous fermentation in barrels it yielded an admittedly disappointing deep brown hue that we empurpled a bit with some local aronia and elderberry. And while we typically use barrels as a neutral, porous vessel for microoxygenation, here we also opted to extend the age of the beer to maximize contact with character barrels: port, red wine, and bourbon. It took a couple years, but now we’ve got ourselves a nice weird beer that would never have come into being any other way.” — James Priest, Founder and Blender, The Referend Bier Blendery

“The weirdest beer I’ve made was an experimental imperial stout attempting to resemble coquito, a Puerto Rican holiday drink. I made a base imperial stout that was treated with nutmeg, cinnamon, vanilla, milk sugar, and lots of coconut flakes. I also soaked oak chips in rum to impart some of the rum flavor. Or, the most extreme beer I’ve made thus far is our latest bottle release, which is a full-bodied IPA with milk sugar, vanilla, and guava. The idea was to make a beer that could resemble a guava pastelito, a staple Latin pastry. We actually added guava pastelitos to the mash tun, as well as a shot of cafecito to energize the process.” — Erik Durr, Co-Founder and Head Brewer, Beat Culture Brewery

“Weirdest thing we ever brewed was probably one of our most recent collaborations. We made a smoked helles with Westbound and Down, Pizza Port, and Freigeist. It was a slightly drunken idea during last year’s GABF. Most collaborations start out like this. We got green malt (malted but not kilned) from Coors, and got a local barbecue guy from Owlbear Barbecue to smoke the malt we got. We smoked it over local applewood and oak. We basically made smoked crystal malt. It took 24 hours to dry and smoke. Then we had to actually rub the acrospires off the malt before we could brew with it, which took eight of us like an hour to do! It made for a light orange, softly smoky, malt-forward beer.” — Ashleigh Carter, Co-Owner and Head Brewer, Bierstadt Lagerhaus

“The weirdest beer I ever made I didn’t actually set out to brew. In my early days of all-grain homebrewing I attempted to make a classic: robust porter. But something went wrong in the process and the beer ended up tasting very thin and not the least bit robust. It was the right color, but the depth of flavor was just not there. A friend of mine described it as tasting like ‘burnt water.’ Never one to waste beer, I tried to salvage the beer by aging it on oak cubes. That didn’t solve the problem either; now it was just oaky, roasty, and watery. I had read about the German process for making ice beer and thought that might improve the beer. After all, the main problem seemed to be that the beer was watery, so why not freeze it and remove the ice crystals? I sanitized a plastic bucket, transferred the beer into it and stuck it in the freezer. While the results were a slight improvement, it still just wasn’t very good… Several months later I ran out of fresh home brew and decided to revisit the ‘porter.’ I poured a glass and immediately was struck by the aroma. It was earthy and sour smelling. I tasted it and to my surprise it was sour and it was really good! I wasn’t sure how the beer had gone sour until I remembered that the bucket I had frozen it in was the same one I had once used to make sauerkraut. It was a huge mistake on my part, but in the end it was the thing that ended up saving this beer. To this day it is probably the best sour beer I ever made!” — Tony Ammendolia, Owner and Brewer, Final Gravity Brewing Co.

“At the end of 2017, we brewed and released a nontraditional black IPA called Corpse Paint. It had all the flavors of our typical New England-style IPAs — super-soft mouthfeel, juicy flavor profile — but poured tar black. It really toyed with folks’ perception of what they were tasting, and was a bit of a mindf*ck. Some people loved it, but some people definitely had a hard time with the concept, since it looked so different than what their palate was tasting… Me and my production brewer Erika even staged a photo opp to promote the release (naturally).” — Armando DeDona, Brewer and Owner, Long Live Beerworks

“I never wanted to add anything to beer which was revolting. We have made beers that are somewhat unique. Garlic beer — this goes back over 20 years. We brewed a golden ale and put raw garlic cloves in the keg. It was quite good. The aroma was pungent; the flavor evident with some heat but not over the top.” — John Maier, Brewmaster, Rogue Ales

“I collaborated with an awesome local female coffee roaster at Vent Coffee in Baltimore on a beer I felt was going to be fairly rushed to meet a festival deadline. We met at the brewery and couldn’t really get inspired. Finally I met her at the coffee shop and, other than coffee, she had a bunch of both hot- and cold-steeped cascara. It was my first intro to cascara — the coffee cherry, formerly a coffee-bean-processing byproduct that was trash but is now pretty popular for teas — and I immediately knew I wanted to try it, along with coffee, in a Belgian beer. It turned out amazing and we were both very proud of it. Since then I have been obsessed with that ingredient. It throws so many weird different flavors at you, from leather to tobacco, ripe fruit, and smoke. So cool. I’ve now used it in a bourbon-barrel-aged beer that came out super cocktail-y and also most recently in a kettle sour.” — Hollie Stephenson, Head Brewer, Guinness

“Weird is such a subjective word — but often one used to describe Stillwater itself. That said, would a beer brewed in the Amazon, with cupuaçu fruit, conditioned à la méthode champenoise, be considered weird? What about a gose with chili peppers, orange peel, and MSG? Or perhaps Premium, with its celebrated use of corn syrup and wild yeast? But then, there is also the new ASMR series with ingredient lists designed to phonetically please, coming replete with textured labels for you to create your own autonomous sensory meridian response, or A.S.M.R., sound effects. This is a difficult question to answer, simply because ‘weird’ is not really the specific intent behind our concepts, but often the outcome. Like I said, weird is a subjective word.” — Brian Strumke, Founder and Brewer, Stillwater Artisanal

“The weirdest beer I’ve brewed so far was for an art project in collaboration with Galerie Wedding and the artist Emeka Ohboh. Beast of No Nation presented the result of a collection of notions of senses and experiences of sound, taste, and smell of the multicultural district of Berlin Wedding. The slightly sour character of the beer is based on the evaluation of locally commissioned research into the taste of Wedding. The beer was limited to 500 liters in 0.33-liter bottles and was only available at the performances of the artist. The beer was a blend of a 16° plato farmhouse ale with allspice pepper and juniper to symbolize the village the district was until 100 years ago, and 8° plato Berliner weisse, cold-hopped with dill and then bottle-fermented with Brettanomyces for at least three months.” — Ulrike Genz, Founder and Brewer, Schneeeule

“We actually have done a lot of ‘weird’ — and I think of that term in an extremely positive way — beers over our 23 years, especially looking at some of our collaborations. The one that really sticks out in my mind is Tsuyu Saison, which was a collaboration we did in Japan at Coedo Brewery and with Garage Project from New Zealand. Just the experience of being in Japan with Jos Ruffell and Pete Gillespie from Garage Project was weird and wonderful as we drank tiny beers on the train, tried beer ice cream, and ate some truly amazing food. These guys are so much fun to hang out with and are adventurous souls, which also leads to lots of laughs. And then to brew with Haru Asagiri and his crew at Coedo was really amazing. The attention to detail and condition of the brewery was top-notch. The beer itself was very unique: a saison brewed with Japanese ume plums and red perilla and then aged in fresh New Zealand Chardonnay barrels. We hopped the beer with American Jarrylo and New Zealand Motueka. It’s quite a fusion and it’s aged very well… Weird is definitely wonderful!” — Jeremy Moynier, Senior Manager of Brewing and Innovation, Stone Brewing

The article We Asked 16 Brewers: What’s the ‘Weirdest’ Beer You Ever Tried to Brew? appeared first on VinePair.

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