#he can’t call this goyische nonsense

[frownyalfred]

if Bruce had a Jewish mother (an alive one at least, oy) she would take one look at him shirtless, think about it for .5 seconds, and go “it’s too much” and walk away without explaining.

[brehaaorgana]

(I wish I could have enjoyed wicdiv‘s latest special as much as I enjoyed the first one, but it basically did none of the things I hoped it would do, and felt far less historically compelling and hit all of my pet peeves with the conceits the story takes. 

Like i understand narratively we have to be asked to overlook some logical issues, but this one revealed all the weaknesses I think we normally have to read past, and it’s frustrating to me. I wanted something more from this particular incarnation, and I didn’t get it. I got like...the opposite of it. 

I did enjoy some things about the issue, I liked the art and style and the lettering and the designs, and even the dialogue but i’m sorry i can’t just get past my issues i really hoped this would address! 

Ananke calls Lucifer a Pagan God. I know everyone loved Luci in the current timeline, but I’ll be honest: I didn’t buy it and it bugged me. I felt completely bored by the use of Lucifer as a God character. Lucifer was never a god, much less a pagan one. Why would you write about Western, Christianized Rome, and not even touch upon the fact that Lucifer having any kinds of “powers” whatsoever is an entirely Christian idea? Lucifer was never a God. Lucifer was a translation of a word that meant morning star, used as part of a prophecy about a prideful Babylonian king. Lucifer was never a Pagan deity or god. Lucifer existed solely within xtianity as a conflation with satan (which in Judaism also isn’t a god, but w/e.)  

Lucifer was also never a god, and at the time, wouldn’t even have been the devil. The Latin Vulgate bible was only written in 382 CE, and started to be the major translation used in 400 CE so it...skates by, but just barely. How many people would even have known what a Lucifer was? Would any of them really have associated them with the Christian idea of Satan? Probably not. Augustine of Hippo (354–430) did not think of Lucifer as a common name for the Christian concept of the devil at the time, even if other theologians had articulated mentioning the Devil in relation to the verses in Isiah which refer to a Babylonian King as referring to “satan” but wouldn’t have called that person “Lucifer” regardless, because....those people were either not using that conflation, OR they were writing in Greek, not Latin, and thus wouldn’t have called him “lucifer”. 

why would lucifer think of himself as a pagan god??

why would a christian concept fear a christian burial? 

they literally mention judaism and how Jesus was a jewish man, but then....???? guys. this is just the other thing I can’t swallow. I’ve been assuming Jesus was one of the “incarnations” anyways, but why does Ananke tell invading Christians to just forget about all this, to forget about Lucifer, to move forwards anyways? Whyyyyy. (I just want one whole Jewish person in wicdiv to be like “these people with powers are nuts and I don’t believe in any of them this is wild goyische nonsense)

did they just forget about emperor constantine making rome a christian empire or what? i really had hopes that the chi-rho on the statue of lucifer would address the state adoption of xtianity was part of the downfall of rome, regardless of the vandals. like the First Council of Nicaea already happened at this point, there was an increasingly centralized Roman Catholic church, and a pope and....none of this is here. NONE of it??? how does Lucifer manage to even exist in this context while claiming to be pagan? Did he murder Pope Leo? Did he like...lie? Did people not think he was pagan? playing it as Pagan rome vs Christian Vandals is so confusing because western rome was Catholic. Yes there were also Pagans but like Christianity was very much a present and public thing, and often the presence of like, Roman Pagans, Jews, and then Christians created massive conflicts post the institution of Christianity as the new state religion (see: the film Agora, late 4th century Roman Egypt where I have to be devastated watching Oscar Isaac make sad faces about not being able to save the Pagan Hypatia and also the massacre of Jewish people multiple times because Christian radicalism.) 

if the conceit was these people represented archetypes, I could maybe buy it more, but they’re supposed to be deities. If Lucifer was the archetype of oppressive rulers with great hubris and a dash of...evil, then like fine, this makes sense, but the story is set upon these people being Gods and lucifer....isn’t....one.....at all..... so there’s a huge problem when Lucifer is Pagan, and not a Christian pseudo-deity which represents the misfortunes/conflicts of the impact of xtianity on the roman empire. i was expecting more of the fact that there was major conflict here, and if Lucifer is basically Valentinian III, that guy...gave even more power to christians and christianity (also started throwing Jews out of the Roman Army). Avitus comes after the 455 sacking of Rome (pagan guy) but he gets ousted within like, a year. He made no sense as a pagan. he should have been who he was. He should have been a christian figure which was very very newly formed as a conceptual entity (I mean historically it wasn’t but let’s pretend) and it should’ve used the conflict between christian vs pagan more and this could’ve been.....more interesting, Lucifer could’ve been the look into the now oppressive undercurrent of xtianity now that they had state power. This could have been the negative xtian psyche that had appeared in the late days of rome where people were murdered for being pagan or Jewish! It could’ve been fascinating, the whole bodies made into instruments and lyres would’ve really reflected this perversion that had happened with power and the ability to oppress others.... 

but it didn’t do any of that and ngl i was pretty disappointed. But the gods continue to all appear in the “western” world so what did i expect? i just wish they’d even lampshaded the Lucifer thing, but they didn’t. :/