#hasmoneanism

[aviad1b]

i'm actually arguing with a chatbot about Hashmonean politics

what is this

[avayarising]

As a non-Jew, ignorant of Jewish history (I was only on https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/pharisees-sadducees-and-essenes to fact-check something I was saying in another post), I find this absolutely hilarious:

Sadducees: We have theological concerns about who should serve as priests.

Pharisees: We have political concerns about who should rule the people.

Essenes: Fuck that Jonathan guy.

[hyperpotamianarch]

So, Jewish Fantasy! A very nebulous idea that tries to catch form in many different ways. I don't know much about how it works outside of Israel - I saved the recommendation list that circulated around here but didn't try anything from it yet (outside of Spinning Silver, which I read before I ever saw the list). So, if anything of what I say seems ludicrous to you because you've seen a book that does it well - don't hesitate to recommend it to me! Though I'm not sure how applicable it will be for what I'm about to say.

There are a couple of angles from which one can try to get at Jewish Fantasy: through using Jewish folklore and myth as a basis for your story, through using Jewish characters or by writing out of a Jewish cultural context. In certain stories, different angles tend to be more pronounced - Charashta is based on Midrashim and Jewish folklore, Spinning Silver has Jewish characters, and Agam HaTzlalim is written out of some degree of Jewish culture. Yeah, two of those are Israeli books that weren't translated, feel free to give alternative examples but those are the only one I can safely talk about since I've actually read them.

I could elaborate more on that, but what actually made me want to write a post on the topic was a post about how so much of Fantasy is Greek (in a way) and Sci-Fi is Roman. And that made me think, what about Jewish Fantasy? And while this is a topic I've thought of and been somewhat involved in conversations on for some time now, this is looking at it from a particular angle. An angle which could be examplified by the simple question: why is there no Jewish Disney Princess?

All right, all right, settle down. I know about the Vanollope von Schweetz thing. Quite frankly, considering the source for it is the word of the actress and that it has no effect on the story whatsoever, I think I'm fine with ignoring it. Feel free to shout at me in the comments, hopefully the rest of the post will explain this better.

You see, the problem is that Disney Princesses mostly come from stories about Medieval Europe, and in that particular time and place "Jewish" and "royalty" were inherently contradictory. A Jewish girl couldn't have been a princess, because Jewish communities were never a part of the ruling class. At least not in medieval Europe.

Now the reason what I'm saying is rubbish is because of other contradictory examples, like Mulan or Tiana, and maybe Pocahontas or Esmeralda. And based off of those examples I could probably whip up a couple of ideas on how to do an interesting Jewish Princess story - base it on the Book of Judith, for example, or offer a Jewish twist on some European folktales (which might be hard considering some of them actually have straight up Jewish characters playing as the villains), or... have a movie about Jews assimilating into European culture... Yeah, I can see why Pocahontas or the Hunchback of Notre-Dame might feel a little uncomfortable. But the point is: Fantasy is based on Medieval times, and Jews' role during that time wasn't one of royalty.

You can't really write a medieval Jewish kingdom, because there wasn't really any. And yes, many people try using the Khazarians for that. However, their kingdom was only Jewish for a century, maybe, before it was completely destroyed. Plus, we barely have any data on what it looked like, and its culture was likely very different from Jewish culture. So the medieval presentation of Jews would have to be of a persecuted minority. That, essentially, is what we see in Spinning Silver: a Jewish family in medieval times, a member of which serves as our protagonist. And Maryem is pretty much constantly angry about the antisemitism flourishing all around her. So I suppose that could be an example to follow - along with the stories about Maharal of Prague and the Golem, fighting blood libels.

So, you can portray Jews as an oppressed minority, constantly fighting their persecution. An alternative could probably be following the example of Ḥassidic stories, talking about the Rebbe, the Renter, the Trader and the Widow (regular character archetypes in such tales). You could have the antagonist be the local Pariz, nobleman, or perhaps the gentile that decided to be a robber, or occasionally a fellow Jew who out-leassed your protagonist from their home. All regular tropes in the day-to-day life of an... (checks notes) early modern Eastern Europen Jew? Huh. I suppose it's not exactly the same period.

Either way, if you want your story to be more fuly Jewish, to not always play against the backdrop of a non-Jewish kingdom, you have some interesting options. The first question would be: are you taking from the past or the present? If you choose present, well, you can choose between Diasporan or Israeli culture. In addition, this will more or less constrain you to some type of Urban Fantasy or other Hidden World stories, with not much of an option to delve into Epic Fantasy. If that's what you want to do - great! Go ahead and do that. Personally, I have some degree of a problem with how I've seen Israeli culture portrayed in stories so far, but that's a story unto itself.

If you choose past... well... Jewish history is nothing if not long. And if we're really trying to make a more Jewish backdrop, we'll probably need to pull from Jewish independant states or kingdoms. Of which there are a couple that can be used - Ancient Israel throughout the time of the Tanach, from the Judges through the first kings and the divided kingdoms of Judea and Israel; Yehud Medinta, which while it existed under the Persians had a Jewish governor for certain periods; the Hasmonean Dynasty, with all its ups and downs; the Kingdom of Adiabene, which converted to Judaism for a time; some short-lived Jewish independant states in defiance of the Romans; and of course, the infamous Kingdom of Khazar. There are also legendary kingdoms of the lost 10 tribes, which could possibly work as interesting additions. It is also important to note that in the Tanachic period I included a pretty vast array of periods, including the Judges (periodical local saviors and heroes), the House of Sha'ul (which isn't too easy to characterize), the Davidic Dynasty (Temple! Prophets! A bloodline promised to last! Evrything you might want from a kingdom), and the Kingdom of Israel (a couple of dynasties have their own characteristics, but most didn't survive for long).

Maybe I'll try my hand in suggesting what a kingdom based on the Hasmonean Dynasty could look like later. For now, let us start with: there is no medieval Jewish kingdom, so we'll take one from the Hellenistic period or from the Bronze Age to cover it up! Either that, or we'll try figuring out the structure of the early medieval kingdom that converted to Judaism that one time.

I'm not sure how much of a point I made, really. Thank you for reading, and have a good day!

[mapsontheweb]

Expansion of the Hasmonean Kingdom between 161 and 76 BC.

[247reader]

Day 27: Salome Alexandra!

Shelamzion Alexandra was born into an aristocratic Judaean family in the second century BC. She is believed to have been the sister of Simeon ben Shetach, a legendary rabbi and Pharisee religious leader, but her Greek second name was highly unusual for a woman in her position.

Salome made a highly advantageous marriage, to Alexander Jannaeus, who had just ascended to the throne of a kingdom in turmoil. Judaea was surrounded by encroaching powers, and beset with religious tension between the rival - and highly politicized - Pharisee and Sadducee movements. Alexander began persecuting the Pharisees, including Simeon, who was driven into hiding; Salome attempted, with limited success, to stay his hand.

Alexander died while on one of his many military campaigns, though not before naming Salome, rather than one of their sons, as his heir. It was a wise choice. Salome was a seasoned politician and an innate peacemaker - she brought the Pharisees back into power without persecuting the Sadducees, fortified the frontiers, and maintained a careful diplomatic dance with the expansionist powers surrounding her.

Salome died in 67 BC; her reign was long remembered as a golden age.

[unsolicited-opinions]

I hold some positions which aren't always appreciated by Jewish friends.

For instance, I am convinced that the Exodus never happened. There's no evidence for it where there would be if it had actually happened.

That doesn't mean it isn't important, that it isn't foundational to Jewish identity, or that I don't treasure it as a story. It's foundational, important, and dear to me - but it's an origin myth which I don't take any more literally than I do the story of Noah's Ark. I think biblical literalism in (Judaism or Christianity) is theology for spiritual and intellectual infants. I have no patience for literalist readings and have often enjoyed the fact that Jews are less married to literalist readings than Christians.

Another example came to mind today because I'm staring to see Chanukkah posts. Most Reform/Conservative Jews my age in the US were raised to see chanukkah as a holiday celebrating religious freedom, but I've never felt entirely comfortable with that reading.

I have issues with lionizing the Hasmonean dynasty. I dislike demonizing Hellenism in overly broad strokes. I hate that "apikoros," the word some Jews use for a Jewish apostate or Jewish heretic, comes from Epicurus, whose contributions to western thought are extraordinary.

Later Jewish thinkers like Maimonides and Spinoza folded Hellenistic ideas into Jewish thought...and I dearly love the products of these projects of synthesis.

I'm not saying that it was good the temple was desecrated. I'm not saying it is bad that the Maccabean revolt restored the temple.

I'm saying that it's really a shitload more complex than the story I was raised with and I like delving into that complexity and questioning the way the story is told to Jewish children.

Here's the part which is oddest to me: When I struggle with this topic? I feel exceptionally Jewish. It feels right to me to dig into the complexity and fallability of these stories and their heroes.

If this topic interests you, here's an article to get you started:

[finelythreadedsky]

on the heels of my realization that nathaniel and theodore are the same name, anybody got any guesses about what 'aristobulus' might calque from hebrew into greek? 'best-plan'?

[fillejondrette]

the art is cute but palestine was literally a british mandate in the 1930s so uh. i'm a bit confused

[k-wame]

reading about how an ancient royal house plotted to seduce mark antony with the portrait of their beautiful crown prince & antony indeed got so hard for the boy’s portrait it nearly cost herod the great his crown & head. and i’ve been sat here contemplating this detail bit abt chaotic bi king antony & i just want to

[blueiscoool]

Looted Rare Coin From Last Hasmonean king Seized in Israel

IAA says coins minted under Antigonus Mattathias II rarest from period; dozens of other ancient coins from Roman to Muslim periods recovered in search of East Jerusalem home.

Police recovered dozens of ancient coins that were allegedly illegally excavated — among them a rare coin from the time of the last Hasmonean king of Judea over 2,000 years ago — during a search in East Jerusalem overnight, the Israel Antiquities Authority said Wednesday.

The currency was recovered from the suspect’s home in the Silwan neighborhood and includes bronze coins ranging from the Roman period until the Muslim period. The IAA said in a statement that coins from the reign of Antigonus Mattathias II (40 BCE – 37 BCE) are the rarest finds among those minted from the Hasmonean period.

Police questioned a man in his 30s, suspected of robbing the artifacts — likely by searching for them with a metal detector around Jerusalem — illegal possession of artifacts, and attempting to sell the items.

IAA Director Eli Escusido said that finding the coins at their original site would have been more useful to their study.

“The removal of the coin from its archaeological site harms the ability to understand our historical puzzle,” he said.

Gabriela Bichovsky, a coin expert at the IAA, said a cornucopia is displayed on the coin, with a Hebrew inscription reading, “Mattia Kohen Gadol,” a reference to the Hasmonean king as a member of the Jewish priestly class. The opposite side of the coin was minted with a Greek inscription surrounded by a wreath, she said.

“Mattathias minted bronze coins in three denominations: large, medium, and small. The coin that was recovered is of the medium denomination and is rarer than the large, on which a pair of cornucopias appear instead of one,” Bichovsky added.

She further explained that the methods used were unique to Mattathias.

Before being stamped with their designs, “the tokens were first cast in a double limestone mold, creating a thickening coin that looks as if two were stuck together,” she stated.

“It’s very difficult to find currency from Antigonos where you can see the models in their entirety on the faces of the coin. Among the currencies of the Hasmonean period, the coins of Antigonus Mattathias II are the rarest.”

[apenitentialprayer]

Honi the Circle Maker, by Chana Rivka Burke

An incident occurred in which the people said to Ḥoni HaMe'aggel: "Pray that rain should fall." He said to them: "Go and bring in the clay ovens used to roast the Paschal lambs, so hat they will not dissolve in the water, as torrential rains are certain to fall." He prayed, and no rain fell at all. What did he do? He drew a circle on the ground and stood inside it and said before God: "Master of the Universe, Your children have turned their faces toward me, as I am like a member of Your household. Therefore, I take an oath by Your great Name that I will not move from here until You have mercy upon Your children and answer their prayers for rain." Rain began to trickle down, but only in small droplets. He said: "I did not ask for this, but for rain to fill the cisterns, ditches, and caves with enough water to last the entire year." Rain began to fall furiously. He said: "I did not ask for this damaging rain, either, but for rain of benevolence, blessing, and generosity. Subsequently, the rains fell in their standard manner but continued unabated, filling the city with water until all of the Jews exited the residential areas of Jerusalem and went to the Temple Mount due to the rain. They came and said to him: "Just as you prayed over the rains that they should fall, so too pray that they should stop." He said to them: "Go out and see if the Claimants' Stone" —a large stone located in the city, upon which the proclamations would be posted with regard to lost and found articles— "has been washed away." (In other words, if the water has not obliterated the Claimants' Stone, it is not yet appropriate to pray for the rain to cease.) Shimon ben Shetaḥ, the Nasi of the Sanhedrin at the time, relayed to Ḥoni HaMe'aggel: "Were you not Ḥoni, I would have decreed that you be ostracized, but what can I do to you? You nag God and He does your bidding, like a son who nags his father and his father does his bidding without reprimand. After all, rain fell as you requested."

Tractate Ta'anit 19a:6b-9a

Hyrcanus then began his high priesthood […] when presently [his younger brother] Aristobulus began to make war against him, and as it came to a battle with Hyrcanus at Jericho, many of his soldiers deserted him, and went over to his brother; upon which Hyrcanus fled into the citadel, where Aristobulus's wife and children were imprisoned by their mother, as we have said already, and attacked and overcame those of his adversaries that had fled thither, and lay within the walls of the Temple. [...] Now there was one, whose name was Onias [Greek for Ḥoni]; a righteous man he was, and beloved of God, who, in a certain drought, had prayed to God to put an end to the intense heat, and whose prayers God had heard, and had sent them rain. This man had hid himself, because he saw that this sedition would last a great while. However, they brought him to the Judean camp, and desired that, as by his prayers he had once put an end to the drought, so he would in like manner make imprecations on Aristobulus and those of his faction. And when, upon his refusal, and the excuses that he made, he was still by the multitude compelled to speak, he stood up in the midst of them and said, "O God, the King of the whole world! Since those that stand now with me are Thy people, and those that are besieged are also Thy priests, I beseech Thee, that Thou wilt neither hearken to the prayers of those against these, nor bring to effect what these pray against those." Whereupon such wicked Judeans as stood about him, as soon as he had made this prayer, stoned him to death.

Josephus, The Antiquities of the Jews (XIV.1.2, XIV.2.1)

[ljf613]

Song of the Day 12/8/23: "Hasmonean (A Hamilton Hanukkah)" - The Maccabeats

How does a Hasmonean, son of a priest And a Hebrew, raised in a village with his four brothers In a Judean province ruled by pompous king Antiochus Under pressure, grow up to be a hero and commander?

[ianosmond]

Who wants a seasonal weird etymology thing? Everybody? Cool, let's go!

What does the word "macabre" have to do with Hannukah? Well... first, the disclaimer - it might not. There are a couple plausible etymologies. But this one is generally considered to be the most likely - this isn't one of those "cool story bro but, yeah, no" etymologies. This one is actually legit.

The first couple links in the chain are obvious and aren't controversial. The English word "macabre" comes from the French word "macabre", which means "macabre". Not a lot of mystery there. And we know the first step in the etymology of the French word: it comes from the term "danse macabre." But that's where it starts to get weird. What is the "danse macabre"?

In the Middle Ages, Passion Plays, entertaining performances on religious/theological/philosophical topics were popular. And one of the themes was the "Dance of Death." As an example, in one of the ones in this genre, three dancers dressed as skeletons would encounter three dancers dressed as members of various social classes, and drag each of them to join them. The message was, of course, it didn't matter how rich or poor you were, Death treats us all the same, and none of us can avoid it. Honestly, a pretty cool theme. I don't know if anybody still does it - searching turns up references to the Saint-Saens piece, the new Duran Duran album released a couple months ago, and the Stephen King book - searching with minus signs to get rid of those, I think there's a village in Catalonia which does it, or maybe did it once because some of the people who live there thought it was cool.

Anyway, yeah - medieval performance on the theme of death. The German name for this makes sense: their term for a Death Dance was "Totentanz" - "Death Dance". But where did the French term for "death dance", "danse macabre", come from? Well, the leading hypothesis is that it comes from the Latin "Chorea Macabaeoreum" - "Dance of the Maccabees."

WTF?

The reference here is most likely a Death Dance based on the martyrology of Hannah and her Seven Sons. This is a story in II Maccabees about a mother and her seven sons who were captured, and the sons were to be forced to eat pork. They refused, one at a time, oldest to youngest. Each was told to eat it, refused, and was tortured to death, with the mother encouraging them to stay strong even to death, and then, when her last son was killed, she dropped dead of grief. So: a story which is part of the Maccabean revolt, which was a topic of medieval passion plays because they considered it a presaging of the Christian martyrs, turned into a performance called "The Dance of the Maccabees", which the French people adapted into a general term for all their passion plays on the theme of death, which then they used as an adjective to refer to things about death, which then we took into English.

Happy Hannukah!

[aviad1b]

No Jewish state has made it past 60 years or so due to infighting (how Jewish of us).

erm akshually 🤓 the Hashmonean kingdom technically lasted for 77 years

... and then collapsed after losing to the Romans - due to infighting. how very Jewish of us.

Saw Naftali Bennett. No notes for the most part, I wanted to high five him (I don't think security would have allowed this).

The notes I do have:

-neutral: pessimistic but real. Has some hot takes on the future of a Palestinian state. Says it's unfortunately not feasible but then goes on to describe what is for all intents and purposes a Palestinian state. But kind of a protectorate too. He doesn't want to govern or police them and certainly doesn't want soldiers roaming Gaza. He does warn that there will have to be an allowance for the IDF to quietly and precisely intervene when hints of terrorism pop up. Doesn't have to feel good to be necessary and prevent the most suffering.

-negative: he has too much faith in the next US administration. That said, if he didn't have faith, I don't think he would have announced it on stage. He does seem to think there's viability in Musk and I really really need Israel to understand that Musk shouldn't be trusted with a cornchip much less security. I also doubt Musk's allegiance.

-positive: he explicitly called out Netanyahu while also acknowledging that the domestic issues were in danger of tearing Israel apart. These things can both be true and I haven't found many people brave enough to hold space for both. He demands Haredim to serve if they expect money from the government, and points out the religious precedent for working and fighting as our patriarchs kings and prophets did both - in other words, the religious argument against Haredim contributing to society he called out for being nonsensical and hypocritical. Hell yeah.

Food for thought: No Jewish state has made it past 60 years or so due to infighting (how Jewish of us). We have absolutely gotten an option to overcome this affliction with this war - that and the opportunity to put our foot down against terrorism is the tiny silver lining of all this atrocity, if it can be said.

Also, he's really funny. If you can see him talk, go just for the jokes.

[mybeautifulchristianjourney]

Quick History Lesson

1) Before the modern state of Israel there was the British mandate, Not a Palestinian state.

2) Before the British mandate there was the ottoman empire, Not a Palestinian state.

3) Before the ottoman empire there was the Islamic mamluk sultanate of Egypt, Not a Palestinian state.

4) Before the Islamic mamluk sultanate of Egypt there was the ayyubid dynasty, Not a Palestinian state. Godfrey of bouillon conquered it in 1099.

5) Before the ayyubid dynasty there was the christian kingdom of Jerusalem, Not a Palestinian state.

6) Before the christian kingdom of Jerusalem there was the Fatimid caliphate, Not a Palestinian state.

7) Before the Fatimid caliphate there was the byzantine empire, Not a Palestinian state.

8) Before the byzantine empire there was the Roman empire, Not a Palestinian state.

9) Before the Roman empire there was the hasmonean dynasty, Not a Palestinian state.

10) Before the hasmonean dynasty there was the Seleucid empire,Not a Palestinian state.

11) Before the Seleucid empire there was the empire of Alexander the 3rd of Macedon, Not a Palestinian state.

12) Before the empire of Alexander the 3rd of Macedon there was the Persian empire, Not a Palestinian state.

13) Before the Persian empire there was the Babylonian empire, Not a Palestinian state.

14) Before the Babylonian empire there was the kingdoms of Israel and Judea, Not a Palestinian state.

15) Before the kingdoms of Israel and Judea there was the kingdom of Israel, Not a Palestinian state.

16) Before the kingdom of Israel there was the theocracy of the 12 tribes of Israel, Not a Palestinian state.

17) Before the theocracy of the 12 tribes of Israel there was the individual state of Canaan, Not a Palestinian state.

In fact in this corner of the earth there was everything but a Palestinian state!

[whencyclopedia]

Herod the Great

Herod I, or Herod the Great (c. 75 – 4 BCE), was the king of Judea who ruled as a client of Rome. He has gained lasting infamy as the 'slaughterer of the innocents' as recounted in the New Testament's book of Mathew. Herod was, though, a gifted administrator, and in his 33-year reign, he was responsible for many major building works which included a rebuilding of the Temple of Jerusalem, several aqueducts, and the massive fortress known as the Herodium. Historians have re-assessed his long-held negative reputation and now credit his reign as having had at least some positive effects on Jews and Judaism in his kingdom.

Accession to the Throne

Herod was a client king (or close ally) of Rome, but his route to the throne was not a straightforward one. His father Antipater the Idumaean made him governor of Galilee in 47 BCE. On the death of his father, there followed a turbulent period of in-fighting involving his brother and various Roman factions. In 40 BCE the Parthians attacked both Syria and Palestine, taking Jerusalem in the process. Herod's brother was taken captive, and he committed suicide shortly after. Herod was thus forced to flee to Rome, and Antigonus of the Hasmonean dynasty was installed as ruler at Jerusalem.

In Rome Herod gained the favour of Octavian and Mark Antony, with whose support the Senate was persuaded to install Herod as the king of Judea. In practical terms, though, this did not solve the problem of Antigonus and the Parthians. Mark Antony was therefore dispatched to the region and he swiftly cleared it, forcing the Parthians back to the eastern side of the Euphrates River. Meanwhile, Herod, with the aid of the Roman general Gaius Sosius, led a force and retook Jerusalem in 37 BCE. Finally, he began what would be a long and prosperous 33-year reign as king of Judea, or 'the land of the Jews' as it was often referred to.

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