#harestar??? WHY

[cryptideye]

i will be honest i dont Get mothpool i never will get mothpool and i do not understand the hype at all much less why its gained so much popularity... not an invitation to explain its just wild because EVERYWHERE i see online its all mothpool all the time and even people who dont make content for it rarely actively dislike it in my experience and im just sitting here like. what is going ON, like its Fine its not bad or “problematic” but i just Do Not  Get what people see in it OVER the other options so much t say as it Should be canon i fail to see this imrpoves their arcs at all

[ds-warriors-designs]

Since they both just have. No family listed and are around the same age I like to think he and Kestrelflight were abandoned kits that Windclan took in

[hadescabin]

TW// GROOMING, MANIPULATION breaking down tigerheartstar and dovewing and why i think its awful ik I said that I dont really like warrior cats anymore but recently i've been thinking about some stuff regarding the series and its fandom and there's one thing that's been particularly bothering me. dovewing and tigerheart. it's just crazy to see the shift of support for tigerdove considering early 2010s warriors fandom seemed mixed on them. now there seems to be this equivocal support for them, probably because most of the fandom's exposure to the couple has been the recent books which frames them as man who loves his wife x burnt out prophecy kid who will do anything for her malewife. which theres nothing wrong with that dynamic, i think it's cute, but people really seem to forget about how tigerheart straight up groomed and treated dovewing awfully throughout oots and even in tigerheart's shadow. it seems to be a forgotten fact that tigerheart was a full grown warrior by the time he was pursuing dovepaw, who was a newly made apprentice. for perspective, this was a 6-7 moon teenager with someone almost the age of her mentor (a little younger). people try to use the excuse "oh but they're cats" and "the age gap isnt that bad" but even the recent books acknowledge with frostpaw and splashtail, that a warrior and apprentice dating is WEIRD. tbf oots was released in the early 2000s, but the fact that canonically speaking the age gap is seen as a teenager and adult relationship gives me the ick. it really puzzles me to see people get on ships like dustfern and bramblesquirrel (both of which i hate btw) for their age gaps but come up with every excuse in the books to defend tigerdove. its not even just the age gap too, again, their relationship has consisted of tigerheart manipulating and grooming dovepaw to do what he wants. in the first two books (esp the second book of oots) dovepaw is presented as someone who got attached to the cats from the journey and doesnt necessarily understand why they must act like they shouldnt exist anymore due to the borders. this is something that tigerheart LEARNS and actively takes advantage of when dovepaw questions why hes at their borders (tldr its dark forest stuff). he shifts the topic and then goes on about the journey and how he felt that they almost became friends, and that if they were in the same clan things would be easier. this may not seem like a big deal, but this goes on for the rest of their interactions whenever tiger needs to pressure her to do something she doesnt want (meeting up, trusting him, etc.) He realizes that the subject of different borders resonates with her and uses it to his advantage whenever he wants something out of her. This can especially be seen in the next book, “Night Whispers”, which kickstarted their relationship. Dovepaw accidentally ran into ShadowClan territory while hunting, and Tigerheart happens to find her there. Once again, he gives her a speech about borders being meaningless, before asking her to meet up with him before the ShadowClan patrol catches them. There’s also other examples in later books where he coerces her into meeting up or trusting him since “that’s what friends are for” or even later in that book, where he manipulates her into using Ivypaw as a captive for herbs. 

When you take this into account, plus him as a full grown warrior, starting a romantic relationship with a barely apprenticed Dovepaw who is shown as having a childish/ immature perception on romance/mates (such as her argument with Ivypaw and claiming that she should “find her own mate”), Tigerdove feels very much like grooming to me. According to the dictionary definition grooming is, “the action of attempting to form a relationship with a child or young person, with the intention of sexually assaulting them”. Of course, in this case, since it’s a young adult book, it’s to form a romantic relationship, which could also be another goal of grooming. Groomers tend to display manipulative behaviors towards the victims in order to coerce them into trusting them more. Whether that be through compliments, gifts, trying to resonate with them or make them feel special. They tend to try to get them to keep and “share” secrets, which is another tactic they utilize both to isolate the victim and to get them to feel more comfortable. 

A lot of behaviors that Tigerheart displays towards Dovepaw falls under this, including the examples I mentioned. There are a couple of other comments that he makes which come off as creepy such as Dovepaw “being his favorite sister”, which as I established, is something a groomer would say in order to make the victim feel as though they’re special and garner their trust. Which is especially the case when you note that he makes that comment in reference to Dovepaw asking about his ties to Ivypaw, which he actively lies about, and quickly reassures her that there’s nothing going on. 

This tactic of manipulation, where he either makes her feel special, or even love bombs and dissuade her from standing up for herself, doesn’t stop when she’s an apprentice. It continues when she’s a warrior, and is constantly used throughout OOTS and “Tigerheart’s Shadow”. At one point in the series, Dovewing and Tigerheart get into an argument about Dawnpelt wrongfully accusing Jayfeather of murder. When Tigerheart defends his sister, Dovewing stands up for Jayfeather, which prompts Tigerheart to try and manipulate her out of the conversation. He jumps straight to talking about how much he loved and missed her, and guilts her by asking why they had to argue like this, and why they couldn’t just “meet like before”. As for Tigerheart's Shadow, he actively goes against what she wants (to raise her kits outside the clan) and actively pressures and guilts her into coming back, before she finally relents. He doesn't care about what SHE wants, it's always about him. Whether it be secretly meeting up, or in The Last Hope, he tries to pressure her to date him again (which she FINALLY refuses and scolds him for thinking about his own needs when they're right before a final battle. as she should). It's especially upsetting in the newest book that tigerheart seems to be the only think at the center of her character. when she argues with ivypool, it's less about the two sister's interpersonal conflicts and more about her and tigerheart's relationship. which...feels like a lot of missed potential to me? i want them to argue, i want dovewing to stand up to herself against ivypool, but why does the entire conflict have to revolve around him? why can't dovewing have her own thoughts and feelings without it tying back to her awful husband?

[keartzen]

Unfortunately for her, I don't think that Frostpaw is going to catch a break after all this is done. I think she's either going to be forced into medicine cat duties OR she's going to be a deputy/leader. Maybe not right away for the second one, but you never know.

My understanding of her destiny according to StarClan is that she wasn't supposed to be a medicine cat, and it felt like they had specific other plans for her. Of course, I could be reading into it, but it makes sense to me that StarClan anticipated Mistystar -> Reedstar -> Froststar.

But then, all of the Plot happened and that destiny got destroyed. I still think she's gonna have some kind of big responsibility, though. Especially considering her growth in this most recent book, with qualities like decisiveness and bravery being pointed out by the other viewpoint characters, and her building trust and rapport with the other Clans' leaders.

[toothlesshat]

Really excited to read Crowfeather’s Trial. Wish I knew who Crowfeather was tho

[get-more-bald]

NEED to play more clangen

[bonebabbles]

The bit about Frostpaw receiving a vision to save WindClan's nursery is actually one of the best plot points in the book. That's solid and has some really nice character moments.

Frostpaw getting this vision solidifies WindClan's support of her. Good way to move the plot along and an actually good move on StarClan's part.

The unlikeliness of the one nearby tree falling adds to that. I was iffy when I first heard the idea, but it was executed well!

Whistlepaw in general. Her bond to Frostpaw is fantastic, the characterization of her being so self-sacrificing she got injured to save her sister is amazing

"It was nothing." "IT WAS EVERYTHING!" is going to be a breakout line from this book and it deserves it.

I liked how the Clan admits to not believing the vision at first... until the thunder started rolling in. THEN they were like "well uh. C. Couldnt hurt to take preemptive measures" Lmao

Frostpaw getting a glimpse of RiverClan territory across the border is delicious. I like her being homesick-- tho I am still wary that she'll forgive the people too quickly.

One thing I'd change; I'd have Harestar muse "why did Kestrelflight not receive the vision..." and Kestrelflight stand up, bravely, and answer, "I had a lesson to learn. The branch, the storm, and Frostpaw herself were an omen meant for me-- that I must trust her."

Like, really drive home his devotion to StarClan and make his faith look so solid it's almost self-punishing. Let them be a little afraid of StarClan's wrath, even if it isn't actually because the ancestors are furious, y'know?

[exocynraku]

Okay listen, who’s your LEAST favorite warrior cat? Give me the Ted Talk on why they’re the Worst please

a lot of the characters i dislike i dislike because they had a GREAT concept and it was executed BAD or in a way i didn't like. specifically, i'll highlight lionblaze. he's probably not my LEAST favourite of all time but he's one i very much dislike I believe more could have been done with his power & the fact he trained in the dark forest. that is the sole reason i dislike him. is because so little was done with that. What I would've liked is seeing his time in the dark forest change him as a person and thru tigerclaw & hawkfrost's will have him kill more people both in the dark forest (he only killed shredtail) and outside of the dark forest (he only killed russetfur and harestar). He would have had to sit with these deaths and understand that his ability is both a blessing and a curse. He may be destined to fight during the great battle using his ability to prevent the fall of the clans but what point would it make it so many innocent need to die from him in the process? he should shut himself off cast himself away and become a shell of who he was. He would've had to sit with the fact that the sole purpose of his existence as one of the three was to hurt others. that is his power. to physically harm others and to mentally scar the ones who lives and the family & friends of those he has killed.

That is why starclan chose for lion's roar to be reborn. this is why he could not have spent his days as the person he used to be. He has killed people and that is what he has to live with. But at the same time, his views on the world changed during his time in the dark forest. There is life after death. What point is there in fearing death if you know there is something afterwards? When there is life after death, death is an escape. Similarly, his knowledge of starclan has changed his views. How could the cats he's killed hold a grudge to him if starclan is so wonderful? so grand, so powerful. you can see those who you know who've passed on and learn the stories of those long forgotten. In his world, death is new life. When you die and join the ranks of starclan, you are just a measly speck of thousands of warriors who've come and gone. Death is an opportunity to live a new life. So what do those who he has killed have to fear? have to be mad at him for? they may lose those who are still alive, but they will join them eventually. but, there are no answers to these questions. they are subjective, grand and have no definitive answer. the answers he decides on will be entirely different than the people's around hims. and this is what he is going to have to live with. his life is rhetorical. His powers had meaning, but after the great battle he loses that. so who is he? well, he is cat who is loud and brash. quick to make an a opinion and unafraid to speak his opinion on another person. he is a cog in the machine of clan life, hunting, sleeping, mating, mentoring, it's the same every day now. someone else is chosen for prophecy. the purpose for his existence is gone now. he's just someone who exists. someone who does things, but doesn't exactly understand why. he yells at others and scowls at them, he sits on the sidelines watching cats like bristlefrost, rootspring, shadowsight, twigbranch, violetshine, and frostpaw as their lives move on. they are similar to him, not exact, in a way that starclan is watching them more than they are watching the rest of the clans. he wants that attention, he wants that feeling again. he is jealous of them. he goes about his days after the great battle as someone who has been scarred from his time alive. he is rude and loud, menacing, his physical scars a remnant of the person he used to be- the person who was destined for greatness. the scars he has now are twisted, a scourge on his skin as they show the person he has become as he has lost purpose. he has thousands of questions, and hundreds of thousands of subjective answers. no one is there to answer them. the life he has lived is one he will have to life with until he dies. that is the cat i wished for lionblaze to be. while he has his powers, he doesn't understand the morality around why he has them and how they shape him as a person, but after he loses them he doesn't how to continue living without a purpose. he knows nothing of the world and nothing of himself, but he KNOWS that, and he sits with that. these concepts, these ideas, the answers to his questions he has come up with sit inside him and fester, showing themselves to the world every time he yells at one of his friends and hurts someone during battle. he is an angry man. he is an angry man who hurts other people not out of malice but out of yearning for meaning. that is what i want out of lionblaze's character. but, that's not what they did with him, and that's why i dislike him.

[bonefall]

Is Crowfeather's parenting and abuse of Breeze going to be any different and/or handled differently by other cats in BB? Thinking about his honor title being for Feathertail and... ugh this poor woman having to watch a cat who named himself for his love for her be so horrible to his own kin after she's torn from hers so soon. She should get to come down and knock some sense into him, if that's even possible

I haven't been able to get into BB!Feathertail yet, but she's fascinating honestly. I like the vibe that Feather x Crow is like this cosmically doomed ship, destined to torpedo itself time and time again for various reasons, and that's the foundation of them in BB.

They were NEVER going to work. Crowfoot has a ton of issues he's working through. Feathertail values herself too much to allow him to mistreat her in the meanwhile. If Feathertail never died, the breakup would have been good for him. He REALLY needed it, actually. Calm, funny, easygoing Feathertail just laying their problems on the table, why she doesn't want a relationship, but still spinning it in that way-of-hers that softens a hard blow.

It wouldn't have fixed him overnight, of course. It just would have been a spark. Paws on a better, happier path. Not a lover in another Clan, but a friend, if he took her words to heart.

But she's dead. She died horribly. And her memory is this perfect fantasy for the magical, flawless love they could have had, an impossible standard Crowfeather viciously holds all of his future lovers to. So as a spirit guide, with all her eloquence, she'd say to him, "That's not very cash money of you."

But anyway, on Breeze's abuse.

For one, I absolutely would want to make sure to stress Breeze's good qualities sooner and harder, and explicitly make them friends at certain points.

The Tribe Journey in particular, where there's a lot of opportunities to get him away from Crowfeather. By the end of it, I would want to include a poignant moment where they have one final nice moment together, before Crowfeather barks for him, and it's gone.

(and, also, add a couple of cats who help The Three discuss their complicated emotions towards seeing their bully being abused.)

I would also actually remove the way that the cats of WindClan "look to" Crowfeather on how Breezepelt should be treated, particularly from Crowfeather's Trial. I feel it misses the point and ends up saying that Breezepelt could NEVER get the social approval he craves unless his abusive dad CHOSE to stop mistreating him.

Like!! FUCK no!!! You do NOT need the approval of a guy who NEVER would have given it without 3 different women and Onestar screaming it into his ear!

Instead, I'd stress how the Clan was beginning to turn on him as soon as his problems escalated into active reckless endangerment. His abuse was causing his social alienation by making his behavior worse and worse.

That seems like a minor change, but it's one of my bigger complaints. ALL of WindClan shouldn't be looking to an abusive parent to model how they'll react to his son. PLEASE let the cats have their own unique social opinions.

One of Breezepelt's adult defenders is Brushblaze. I will be picking more-- but there's always going to be some cats in his corner besides Nightcloud and Heathertail (and Harestar of course who is poly with Heather and Breeze in BB.)

(though Pro-Breeze cats are in the minority unfortunately.)

MOST of the Dark Forest trainees from WindClan were personal friends of Breezepelt. Harespring, Sunstrike, Furzepelt, and Antpelt all came into the training because of him.

All that said, not much else is different about the setup of Breezepelt's childhood abuse! It's a part of canon I think is good and I would like to stay relatively faithful to it.

His arc also continues into BB!AVoS. Continued distrust of him after fighting for the Dark Forest, misplacing his anger onto Harespring when he manages to take deputyship, and Dishonor Titles from Onestar end up causing him and his friends to feel so rejected that they join The Kin.

Its message, that they are "The Kin that the Clans abandoned" appeals to over a dozen cats from other Clans who are shunned for various reasons. HalfClan cats, codebreakers, and Dark Forest trainees alike all come together, because BB!The Kin is mostly comprised of Clan cats, particularly ones from SkyClan, NOT rogues.

There's about 6 or so non-Clanborn cats in The Kin; Rain, Raven, Flame, Dragonfly, Roach, Nettle. If I end up keeping Silt, Thistle, or any of the 7-10 unnamed cats, they'll get shuffled to be Clanborn.

(Max, Loki, and Zelda are cut. Many of Zelda's roles are being absorbed by Dragonfly, who is remaining with Violetshine after The Kin disbands)

[the-owl-tree]

hiii who are your top 5 warrior cats of all time (or of right now)

ough.....all time is mix of nostalgia and current more "critical" examinations of them. hollyleaf and firestar are one hundred percent nostalgia picks i can own up to that lmao

dovewing - she's my girlie

hollyleaf - you know that tweet about loving a character so much you turn them into an original oc separated from the source material? that's me. she's a demigod who got exiled from the heavens after killing the god of ash and met a weird merchant named cinder when she fell.

firestar - he's so fucking orange and so fucking fantastic. i love him :)

leafpool and squilf - they've climbed the love ladder as a duo. i just appreciate them a lot more as an adult and sort of like....re-contextualizing their struggles from a different perspective than when i was a kid. leafpool's loneliness and squilf's struggle with self-worth feel very real now.

tigerheartstar - for making the series bearable to read thank your service. i get one hundred percent why people hate him but i can't stand leafstar and harestar rn so he's kind of my girlie

[warriorkittiecats]

I know I'm gonna get jumped at for this, but unpopular opinion, I actually don't mind the story decision for the leaders to stay mostly neutral right now.

I mean, literally a week ago Tigerstar burst into Riverclan and started fighting them on their leadership decisions and it made every single person in the world generally Miserable.

With that context, it makes sense to me that nobody wants to burst into Riverclan camp, murder Splashtail, and forcibly impose a new leader.

"Why don't the leaders want to do anything?" because Leafstar is projecting her trauma onto Riverclan to the point of being blinded by it, Harestar is as noncommittal and weak as he's ever been, and Tigerstar JUST learned this lesson (and he's barely even keeping off the trigger tbh)

The only one I can see the complaint for is Squirrelstar, but like. She's always had a strong sense of justice and stands up for what she believes in, but she's not...stupid.

And despite what people may say, Squirrelstar ISN'T doing NOTHING either. She literally sent two of her warriors to spy on Splashtail at the end of the newest book, an arguably reckless move on her part that she still committed to because she doesn't feel comfortable not doing anything.

Which..is what I would expect from her, to be honest. I don't know why everyone acts like this is out of character, Squirrelstar has been speaking her mind and sneaking around in ways she's not technically 'supposed' to do because she believes there's something wrong. She just doesn't wanna waltz into Riverclan and kill Splashtail when he has the full support of most of his warriors. Which. FAIR.

I don't know why her doing anything less than performing a hostile takeover of Riverclan right this second is being deemed out of character. Nor do I see why everyone else feeling the same is seen as a betrayal of their characters or intelligence either.

Squirrelflight has ALWAYS snuck around to do what she feels is right without usually being that impulsive, Leafstar has ALWAYS been stubborn and projected her own experiences or ideals where they maybe don't fit, Harestar has ALWAYS been flimsy and noncommittal like this.

I know it's an unpopular take but I just don't see the issue.

[kurtmustdie]

hate the ultimate guide. heres a few reasons why.

reused art: I understand how hard it is to make art, especially at that calliber of detail. I'm an artist, I get it. but the charm of the original ultimate guide was that we had these hand painted, unique pieces of art of these characters, it showed a little personality too.

How stale and lifeless the art is: This is a complaint that I've had with the current western artist for years, the art is just... boring. the colors are pretty, yeah, like wow hyperrealistic cats. cool. but what else? can we see their personalities? what's the book gonna be like? the old covers had that charm, but not these ones. at all. (also is that even... i could not tell that was runningnose and littlecloud. i mean. runningnose has water in his snout, thats not what cat snot looks like but go off. he just looks a little soggy ig, not in a perpetual state of sick.)

Lack of Personality: this is a different complaint I promise. I dont like how the art seems to take away the personality of every character so theyre staring stoicly at the camera. some of these characters arent all that stoic. I never liked the firestar art in the last hope because I deadass thought it was mapleshade until someone told me it was firestar. firestar isnt this scary, stalky cat in the shadows. not to normal people at least. if i can mistake your main character as one of the villains in your cover art that isnt fucking good. I don't want to see these cats staring bug eyed at the camera, I want to be able to tell what they're like JUST from a glance at the art. Who is that- harestar?? why doesnt he look nervous?? he looks almost noble here, which is the opposite of who he's supposed to be, he's a wuss and a loser and i love him for it. like girl that is NOT mudclaw thats some random cat i saw at the shelter once, WHERES HIS ANGER? WHERES HIS FUCKING RAGE??? RISE RISE RISE RISE RISE RI

the Characters are hard to recognize, even with the title cards: Who are these cats. who. who the fuck are they. I can recognize a few cats, sure, but thats if I can pick out a defining trait. Squirrelflights tail, Scourges Collar, Ravenpaw's white chest, those are things that are explicitly told to us that these characters have, but everyone else??? WHO??? Like that was supposed to be leafstar?? HUH?? Wait that's supposed to be Oakheart? I cant even tell if hes red, its so YELLOW OUT I CANT FUCKING TEL WHO HE IS. Sagewhisker is described with yellow eyes, yet she has blue ones in the ultimate guide (i dont usually get pissy about eye color but not only are these cats supposed to be distinct from each other but i really like sagewhisker and i would die for her, yes i will gatekeep her from the artist fucking fight me), Bluestar is barely recognizable, i didnt know who half of these cats were before i read their nameplate. thats not a good thing.

Red mapleshade. Why she red. WHY SHE RED.

Leafpool. I didn't even know that was you at first but man they did you dirty.

sol. dude that is not sol no matter how much you stretch it- why is he a tabby?? hes supposed to be a tortie, why does he look like lionblaze?? and even then he doesnt look that lionlike, even though hollyleaf literally thought he was when she first saw him like what?? HUH???

mothwing. why she anger. also why she not fluffy

squirrelflight. i always hated her SE art but seeing the whole thing makes me angrier. like she isnt not accurate to canon or anything i just... hate it. i hate it withe very fibre of my being. ALSO WHERE IS HER PERSONALITY I WANT TO SEE HER BEING ENERGETIC NOT STARING 😐 AT THE CAMERA FUCKING HELL-

yeah, so im not gonna buy this book. i dont even want to know how they wrorte any of the female characters to make them somehow evil or how they somehow make a completely irridemable male character a sweet uwu baby. and everyone has talked about the ableism to death so im not going to beat this clearly still living horse, im just gonna let you find it yourself.

[unofficially-ace]

Star thoughts/liveblog (spoilers ahead ofc)

- If Splashtail is holding kittens hostage have you guys tried….driving him out? It’s literally one guy against the whole of Riverclan, just keep him away from the kits and there won’t be an issue???

- The conflict is kinda stupid I can’t lie, this could be solved if everyone in Riverclan wasn’t such a dumbass

- Cloverfoot is going to die in this battle I can smell it

- I can’t believe we’re getting fascism explained to us through warrior cats

- Berryheart fell down the crunchy mom -> alt right pipeline real

- This book is making me like Tigerheartstar wtf

- Frostpaw I would die for you

- Harestar you’re the most annoying mf ever please die

- What is it with Riverclan and their camp being turned into a prison every other series

- Graysludge and Mistslime are objectively hilarious names

- What happened to Splashtail being compelling why is he just cartoonishly evil and insane now

- There are not enough supporters of Splashtail to make give this any stakes come onnnn, he has like 5 people actually on his side

- I love Berryheart she’s so fucked up

- Wtf is Owlnose doing, why is he siding with Splashtail for no reason??

- Sunbeam you are so stupid my god

- ‘She didn’t realise what she was doing’ yes she did lmao

- RIP Berryheart you were the most compelling villain of the series

- That makes 2 dead female villains and we’re stuck with the boring male one….

- Owlnose you just killed someone don’t try and make me feel bad for you

- ‘The last thing she ever did was save you’ just like Curlfeather….the parallels…

- This feels like setup for Froststar ngl

- I can’t believe Nightheart is the only guy with a braincell here

- Is fogstar going to be a thing??? She hasn’t even been mentioned once before this book

- Riverclan is so stupid it actually pains me

- Why are we still calling them Greysludge and Mistslime that’s literally so mean lol, just call them by their apprentice names

- The tension is actually really good

- Not exactly liking how Splashtail seems to be genuinely mentally I’ll and that’s why he’s evil…

- He’s fuckin dead and we’re only halfway through?? Now what?

- So glad Frostpaw got to be the one to kill him though, that was so satisfying

- Riverclan you can justify all you want but at the end of the day you’re fuckin stupid

- The second he started doing murders y’all should’ve turned on him and it would all be fine

- Hi Mothwing when did you get here

- Lol fuck those guys (fognose and breezeheart)

- Goddamn Berryheart’s funeral scene is some of the best writing I’ve seen in a warriors book for a while, these are genuinely interesting emotions to explore

- Ewww I don’t wanna think about frost having a crush on splash stop bringing this up my god

- Oh fuck yes Frostpaw and Curlfeather angst

- If the rest of this book is just emotional conflict I will be more than happy with it

- Don’t kill off Frostpaw I swear to god

- Kate Cary I’m putting my trust in you

- This scene would make an incredible animation

- Might be my new favourite chapter of warrior cats ever holy shit that SLAPPED

- Fuck off Nightheart I need more Frostpaw

- Having Nightsky and Nightheart is so confusing

- Thunderclan can’t go two seconds without an argument (usually started by Lionblaze)

- I kinda love this type of conflict, it’s much more interesting than Splashtail being crazy

- Podlight is still here???

- Tree does something as a mediator for the first time ever

- Who tf is emberstar (if they’re relevant in Riverstar’s SE then I haven’t read it lol)

- The fact that I genuinely can’t tell if Frostpaw will survive is so good

- Please let the rest of the chapters be Frostpaw I don’t gaf about the others right now

- Whistlebreeze is the cutest name

- Frostdawn!!!! Also cute as fuck

- ICESTAR REALLLLL LETS GO

- Oh my god this chapter is gonna make me cry

- Sunbeam is pregnant and I want to explode

- And that’s a wrap on ASC , genuinely actually enjoyed this book, especially the second half. The emotional conflict was really interesting I gotta be honest, Frostdawn’s almost-dead scenes were so fun and had really good tension. The conflict with Splashtail ended up getting really stale, I’m glad he was killed halfway through because I couldn’t have dealt with that being dragged out for a whole book

[kipxan]

my only warrior cats prayer for the next arc is NO MORE DAWN OF THE CLANS CATS. NO MORE! I'M SICK OF THEM! giving them novellas/super editions? fine, sure. having them appear in the main arc?? FORCED UNNECESSARY AND ANNOYING!

do NOT get me started on the nine lives ceremonies because i get irrationally mad.

INSTEAD OF LEARNING MORE ABOUT HARESTAR AND THE LOVED ONES HE'S LOST, WE GET FUCKING WINDSTAR GORSESTAR AND MOTH FLIGHT. WHY? WHO CARES! it reads to me as "hey you know those guys right? you know them? you remember them? isn't it cool to see them again? isn't it? what a cool callback right? right?" I DON'T CARE GET THEM OUT!!!!

or if you really want ancient cats why have GRAY WING give blackstar a life instead of DAISYTAIL who originally prevented kits from training before 6 moons? you know, the very thing he sat back and watched brokenstar do?

hell, you could even make a case for having CURLFEATHER guide frostpaw to the cats of the park instead of riverstar. would've at least been another fucking character moment for her, as she tries desperately to (perhaps selfishly) right the wrongs she's done to her daughter before she's dragged to the place of no stars?

originally sure the founders were cool as a cameo because they were old and mysterious, but we know EVERYTHING about them now. appearances by them only serve as more callbacks to Misogyny: The Book Series when there are SO many better options

and i swear to fucking GOD if i see a SINGLE DOTC cat in squirrelstar's ceremony, i will eat the harpercollins writer responsible.

tldr I HATE DAWN OF THE CLANS!!!! silly rant over

[flight-of-the-sacred-eagle]

Alright.

So spoilers for a Starless Clan but I’ve heard people talk about how Frostpaw being leader would make no sense because of xyz aaaaand… I wanna refute them.

To start off, I want her to be leader. Desperately. Not only because I think she’d make a great leader, but we haven’t had any young leaders in… a while. I’m talking Firestar young. Both Tigerheartstar and Harestar are young-ish, but they became leader at about 5 years old. So, middle aged.

Both are already fairly old at 8 years- which is pretty old for a warrior. That should be retirement age.

Not only would she be a breath of fresh air with all the oldies, the idea of her starting as a medicine cat and becoming leader is actually really cool to me. Especially since she’s been trained by Riverstar to be leader.

Plus, I’d really like a leader who has the connection to StarClan that Firestar did. It’s funny that, especially after the last arc, the connection between leader and StarClan that was established in the first arc (with Bluestar going to get advice multiple times in the books) seems to have gone away.

Actually that brings up the first argument people seem to make against Frostpaw being leader. She’s too close to StarClan.

Firestar’s connection to StarClan is something that is more prevalent than all (barring Frostpaw) but one of the medicine cat povs in the series, and the only one who has such a connection is Jayfeather.

Firestar was visited by StarClan once a book if not more. He was given prophecies, visions, guidance… he basically could’ve been a medicine cat. Frostpaw being as close to StarClan truly isn’t an issue.

It doesn’t matter if Frostpaw talks to StarClan with the ease of a medicine cat. Firestar did! And no one questioned his ability to become leader despite that.

The second major argument I’ve seen brought up is that there’s no foreshadowing.

I’ve actually heard this about how there’s no foreshadowing about anyone in the clan becoming leader. And truthfully, I don’t think that’s true.

Now, yes. I’ll agree that there hasn’t been much. Which is why Mothwing is considered the biggest contender for leader. She’s kinda the best option.

But there has been foreshadowing that Frostpaw will become leader. It’s an omen that we thought we as a fandom deciphered but I truly doubt we have.

And that? That is the star-shaped dock leaf in Frostpaw’s nest.

There has been speculation that it meant Frostpaw and Mothwing will lead the clan until there was a new leader. A very simple explanation.

But then why was it important enough to be on her mini figure? Spottedleaf’s mini-figure had the “fire alone” prophecy in her eyes, which is extremely important to the narrative while the dock leaf was… simply forgotten.

Unless of course the dock leaf means more then she will chose the next leader. I firmly believe that this is foreshadowing for Froststar.

Ugh I truly can’t wait for Star to come out. ASC has been one of my favorite arcs.

[morningmask27]

Ivypool's heart rant under the cut lol

WHISTLEPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAW, my little Whis is important, WHISTLEPAW is a big part of the story (hopefully). Oh boy, I hope they won't do Whis too wrong with this book or I'll go fight the Erins myself.

this little scene was very funny to me. Whistlepaw is a shit fighter confirmed

we also get descriptions for the new children, FINALLY. Don't think anyone expected Branchkit to be fully white, but the Erins like being chaotic with their pelt colors, so whatevz. I've already played with fully white kits in this family, Branchkit is deaf now.

Anyways, I am pretty okay with Ivypool and Rootspring hanging out to mourn Bristlefrost. It's touching in a way that they bond over this shared grief (also impressed they mentioned Antpelt. They do remember things from time to time. Impressive)

The way they made Wrenflight have a crush on Rootspring does annoy me just a bit. Crush shenanigans will obviously annoy me personally more, but they truly couldn't find anything better to do and they had to make A Girl fall for Root? (Also I don't know my SkyClan family tree that well surprisingly enough, so I don't have the ability to immediately say if these two are closely related. It seems okay, but who knows). They also made her a

whoopsies </3

However I truly don't feel like Ivypool should be deputy at all in such a situation. It's stated multiple times that she hasn't done a good job at her tasks or even Be On Time and I do wonder why Squirrelstar never immediately choose Cinderheart to be her deputy (also girlpower <3). I am slightly aggravated with Ivypool's worries that she'd be replaced on the long term by Cinder, who in two phrases looks to be such a better deputy than Ivy, so that weird entitlement was a bit annoying tbh. Hope it gets addressed, but I assume it won't.

Fernsong is a nothing character and that doesn't change all that much. He's ~moved on~ with Bristlefrost's death and it does characterize him a bit, but goddamn I didn't know who I found more annoying when he and Ivy were talking. Thriftear and Flipclaw look like they'll be completely forgotten by the story after their one Obligatory Scene and it's a bit disappointing. Fernsong did mention multiple times specifically taking care of the kits, but in such vague terms that it just sounds stupid. Why are the Erins still so wishy-washy about having Fern live up to his earlier promise?

God, just get a divorce if you're not going to talk at this point. Wdym The Father of the kit you just lost doesn't understand the grief you're going through. Okay he's a cardboard made to feel whatever's necessary, but still, this is dumb

*chanting* divorce divorce divorce divorce

Anywaaaaaaays. Harestar gets one emergency gathering, as a treat <3

That was Whistlepaw's little sister, so obviously that would be traumatic (I will bite the Erins if they forget in the rest of the book) and

Whistlepaw does not like public speaking. Whis already had a same-ish reaction last time in Thunder when lying about Frostpaw's death, so this is a funky character trait.

Anyways, Whis <3 (they also don't let Whis finish explaining that damned dream. Constantly interrupting with useless comments. Goddamnit, you don't help a cat that doesn't like public speaking already by constantly speaking up and stopping the story)

And as I yelled in another post, Cloverfoot gets a few good lines here. Not a lot, but she's rational

Whistlepaw gets two free mom's

I find the group of cats so funny to. Ivypool, deputy of ThunderClan and hero of the dark forest, Dovewing, one of The Three super powered cats that saved the Clans, Rootspring, light in the mist, helped to defeat Ashfur and has sister powers, Icewing (joins a bit later), senior warrior of RiverClan, trained in the dark forest too and then there's Whistlepaw, apprentice with a dream. (This will make for a funny daily Whis drawing lol)