#grrm-ing my fic

[argylemnwrites]

WIP Abandoned No More Tag List Clean Up

Alright, thought I'd be back posting in November, but election results in my country left me not wanting to write about anything political or related to reproductive choices/family planning. But, now that the sting has faded to a dull ache of inevitability, I figure I might as well dive back in.

Given that it has been years since I posted, I figure a tag list clean up is warranted. Apologies, this seems like my most recent list, but I could be very mistaken. As usual, this will be opt in. If I don't hear from you by December 3rd, I will take you off my tag list(s). A like means "leave me where I am."

All Choices: @forallthatitsworth @mom2000aggie @kingliam2019 @lovingchoices14

TRR/TRH: @motorcitymademadame @iplaydrake @princessleac1 @twinkleallnight @marshmallowsandfire

@axwalker @sirbeepsalot @iaminlovewithtrr @marshmallowsaremyfavorite @hedgehogs-dilemmas

Drake x MC: @rubiwalker @walkerdrakewalker @petiteboheme @mskaneko

ICWAM: @sunnyxdazed

FoF: @burnsoslow @monstercyclops

OH:  @mskaneko

Bryce x MC: empty

ROD: @burnsoslow @mskaneko @brightpinkpeppercorn

Logan x MC: @iplaydrake

Colt x MC: empty

RCD: empty

Seth x MC: empty

MOTY: empty

Levi x MC: empty

Blades: @marshmallowsandfire

Mal x MC: @brightpinkpeppercorn

TF series: empty

James x MC: empty

TWC: @burnsoslow @agentnatesewell

Nate x f!detective: empty

Mind Blind: @burnsoslow

Grayson x f!button: empty

[janiedean]

aaah, and I thought the throbb/theon fandom couldn’t disappoint me more than it already had

and yet.

okay, so, whatever, I’ve been made aware of a situation on twitter and honestly I’m tired, so let’s just have it out.

apologies for the long-ass post but I honestly am tired of being the uber-correct person who addresses everyone directly and properly and so on and all I get is finding out people trash talk behind your back anyway and don’t engage with me if they have a problem.

so, yesterday I’m minding my damned business, I see that @fleurdulys​ is apparently in some discussions with anti sansan people calling her names, I send her a message like ‘oh god they found you I’m so sorry’ because I have seen anti sansan takes back in the day, two people including someone that had stalked her for months start tagging me too and accusing me of the usual condoning That Horrible Problematic Ship and of being a pedo apologist blah blah blah, I block both of them, the day after another two show up in my mentions uninvited, I block both of them.

then someone who was monitoring the situation warns me that some anon is trash talking me and fleur in the curiouscat asks of some other person that I had absolutely no knowledge of until then. I went to block them, found out I had blocked them already because they were anti thr/amsay and shipped a theon show only ship I really don’t like so I went and blocked them in JULY before they changed nickname because I’m an adult and I like to think I can cut out of my life people I don’t want to risk interacting with because I know I don’t have anything to say to them. said person accused me of ‘using as a tactic calling everything calvinist’ which... well, when the problem is that antis are basically being that it’s not a tactic but whatever, I addressed it on twitter and changed my screen name as a joke because y’know what let’s embrace it, I don’t like calvinists anyway.

I go and forget about it and then the same someone monitoring the situation informs me that these lovely people had this other exchange - I’m not mentioning who it is but they’ll know and at this point I’m honestly done:

now.

sorry but what the hell.

first of all, going in order:

I blocked receiver of the CC ages ago because she ships a thing that for me is an absolute no and I have very good reasons to not like it, and I have zero interest in talking to people who ship that AND are th/ramsay antis, which is a thing that I have zero patience for whichever side of the fence you’re on - saying it as someone who doesn’t like th/ramsay but ffs I don’t agree with anti-ing stuff, if you hate it blacklist and move on with your life;

also, I wasn't lurking on her anons because I didn’t even know she was involved but someone else monitoring the situation told me I was the subject of one of them and I went and checked for myself, so like... sorry I’m not unblocking because I never searched for her, I never talked to her, I never wanted contact with her and she and the anon are there trash talking me and fleur for shipping a fictional ship so what are we even talking here;

and that’s the premise, but: I had gotten my 'bitch ass away from throbb' in 2011, the amount of fics that fandom has would Not Exist At All because *I* was the sole steady contributor (ie the only person who kept on posting it) 2011-18 (and fandom drove out the only other steady contributor in 2015-8 lmao), *I* was the one organizing most theon-based fandom events (which were opened to all ships, including the ones I hated, and if I could handle posting th/ramsay fanart/reading th/ramsay prompts/assigning them when the exchange was anonymous and I had to post all the contributions when looking at th/ramsay art made me sick back in the day I think OP can tolerate people existing and shipping stuff she don't like), *I* was the one periodically coming up with ways to make the tag less filled with hate, *I* called out every single anti shaming anyone for their ships - from thramsay to theonsa because there were theonsa antis back in S5 but she wouldn't know I suppose -, so like she can pay me the favor to not even going there because if it wasn't for me she wouldn't have throbb fic to read *period* (not to brag but check, before I started spamming the tag and helped bringing in people along with someone else who's not in fandom anymore there were literally six), so how about she check what are her contributions to the fandom (less than mine probably) other than creating drama? thanks.

also ‘theon and robb would beat pedos up’ please check your facts, theon/jeynep is going to most likely be canon and she’s like thirteen and he’s twenty-two, which is a nine year age gap, which is not even that far from sansan. also your favorite theon ship has an eight years age gap in the books too so just stop. you ain’t coherent. at least be coherent. but you can’t, because every single asoiaf ship is problematic for some reason. ;)

and that was it for OP.

now, for the anon, who honestly... the entitlement, I swear to god, but in order: if you’re that pressed because I haven’t written throbb in months also thanks to people like you you could have like, come and talked to me on tumblr because regardless from what you assume I don’t bite. also I see that you’re a throbb shipper and you’re calling me THROBB CONTENT GENERATOR?

CONTENT GENERATOR?

ARE YOU COMPLETELY OUT OF IT?

I’M A HUMAN BEING, I’M NOT YOUR DAMNED CONTENT GENERATOR.

I DON’T GENERATE CONTENT FOR YOUR SATISFACTION, I WRITE FIC FOR SHIPS I LIKE. throbb is my otp (still, even if y’all really are trying to drive me out lol) and I wrote novels of it for years for free because I love it, BUT NOT BECAUSE I’M YOUR DAMNED CONTENT GENERATOR. 

content generator.

I’m just. actually you know what, if I write throbb again after this, you can be 100% sure there’s gonna be full-on blown canon sansan in it for a very long time and I’m absolutely not going to make it avoidable if you don’t scroll half of the fic. also ‘I could ask her to write it but she’d put sansan in it so I won’t’ who the hell do you think you are?

who the hell do you think you are?

I take prompts when I can because I want to and because once in a while I enjoy the idea of writing stuff for people because other than being something I love, I like the idea that I can make someone’s day nicer by filling them a prompt if they like my writing, I don’t do that just because you ask.

what the hell? so you’d ask and me, a poor idiot, not knowing it was you, would put it on a to-write list of prompts that’s like ten pages of notebook long because that’s how long my goddamned list is, while you’re here laughing that someone whose writing you like but whose personality you obviously despise has written you your favorite ship for free not knowing that it’s for someone that doesn’t like her all that much?

jesus christ.

like, I thought this fandom couldn’t get lower than the let’s plagiarize fics deal last july, but this is honestly rich.

and then you wonder why whenever I think about finishing sfbd or writing a ship that used to make me happy to write now I go like ‘f* this noise why should I bother I’m writing any other damned pairing instead’.

and I have to read this shit from someone who, when I blocked them the moment I got the fandom twitter account, who I never searched for, who I never talked to and who is friends with people who happily accuse others of being pedo apologists because they ship sansan which is, oh, wait, an almost-canon ship with canon text supporting it and that grrm himself certainly doesn’t hate and has admitted to have been leading up to, and now wants me to unblock her to talk??? when their friends showed up in my mentions absolutely uninvited because I sent support to someone who was arguing with them because we both ship sansan and I’ve done it for longer so I know how’s the deal?

and from some kind of anon who sure as hell reads my fics enough that they know I’m still the most prolific throbb contributor to the tag even if I haven’t written throbb in a year and some who calls me content generator and not even contributor as if I was some kind of juke box machine where you put in prompts and get out 5k minimum fics for free? and who still would like to read them enough to throw that shade but has no issues trashing me because I’m pointing out that antis think exactly like 17th century calvinists, which is a thing that can 100% be proved the moment you look up how the aforementioned calvinists thought?

like, I’d like to kindly tell the both of them to find a hobby that’s not trying to fele better harassing people they don’t know for fictional ships and remind everyone on here (because I’m sure anon is on tumblr as it’s where I hang out most of the time anyway) including the few anons who have asked me if I’d consider writing throbb again in the last months and who asked me if I’d run theonexchange again at some point that fic writers are human beings, not jukeboxes, and that being assholes has, as a usual consequence, driving the content creators out. I’m not a content generator, I’m not here to get laughed at because I fill prompts and I generally like to put content in the tags and not drama and because I think that being a fandom contributor should mean spreading positivity instead of shaming people for what they ship.

anyway: as a conclusion to this rant, I’m definitely not writing throbb that doesn’t have sansan in it anytime soon and if I run theonexchange again at some point (which I would like to but with these premises you’ll see that finding the force of will when I have a life is kind of a problem) if I find out that OP or any of her friends want to participate they’re kindly welcomed not to because I’m banning them on sight.

wow, get my bitch ass away from a fandom I kind of helped make and contributed 10% of the ao3 content to.

congrats, you just made sure I really won’t when I was taking a break but I was planning to come back at some point even if right now it’s quite tempting.

thanks for reading this if you got to this point and sorry for the rant but I’m tired.

I’m really tired.

also I’ve always said I shipped sansan from the moment I was in this fandom, I tag it also for blacklisting purposes and I don’t even put it as a side in fics that much because it doesn’t come up, so if anyone is so disgusted by it they’re welcome to learn to coexist with people who ship stuff they don’t like.

again: I’m really tired.

[joannalannister]

Sorry if you answered this before, but how and why do you think the incest started between Jaime and Cersei?

Hi! Wow, I wrote way too much for this. I think first a timeline and some text will be useful before we get started.

266 - Jaime and Cersei are born at Casterly Rock

272 - Jaime and Cersei are taken to KL for Aerys’s Anniversary Tourney, though Cersei does not see Rhaegar there. “When she was just a little girl, her father had promised her that she would marry Rhaegar. She could not have been more than six or seven.” (This art by @bidonica​ is my favorite thing.)

273 - Jaime and Cersei are seven. They are discovered by Joanna’s maid. Joanna dies soon after. After the Martells arrive, Cersei sexually abuses Tyrion by twisting his penis; she physically abuses her baby brother on more than one occasion. 

276 - Jaime and Cersei are 10. Tywin hosts a tourney. Maggy the Frog tells her prophecy. Cersei sees Rhaegar for the first time. Aerys refuses the Cersei/Rhaegar betrothal and he refuses Jaime as Rhaegar’s squire.

277 - At eleven, Jaime is sent to squire for Lord Sumner Crakehall. 

278 - Tywin brings Cersei to court. She is 12. Cersei wept and Jaime raged. 

279 - Jaime wins a squire’s melee, though where this melee took place is unclear. Possibly at the tourney held at Storm’s End?

279 or 280 - Tywin visits Casterly Rock with Cersei. Jaime visits home too. The twins are 13 or 14. Jaime dares Cersei to kiss Tyrion, which she does. Cersei laughs at Tyrion’s tumbling, until Tywin puts a stop to it. 

281 - Jaime wins his spurs against the Kingswood Brotherhood. Jaime and Cersei are known to have slept together at Eel Alley. They are 15.

The text tells us about Jaime and Cersei’s childhood:

Your brother?“ Ned said. “Or your lover?”

“Both.” She did not flinch from the truth. “Since we were children together.” (Eddard, AGOT)

He could never bear to be long apart from his twin. Even as children, they would creep into each other’s beds and sleep with their arms entwined. Even in the womb. Long before his sister’s flowering or the advent of his own manhood, they had seen mares and stallions in the fields and dogs and bitches in the kennels and played at doing the same. Once their mother’s maid had caught them at it … he did not recall just what they had been doing, but whatever it was had horrified Lady Joanna. She’d sent the maid away, moved Jaime’s bedchamber to the other side of Casterly Rock, set a guard outside Cersei’s, and told them that they must never do that again or she would have no choice but to tell their lord father. They need not have feared, though. It was not long after that she died birthing Tyrion [in 273AC]. Jaime barely remembered what his mother had looked like. (Jaime, ASOS)

“I can’t remember when we first began to kiss. It was innocent at first. Until it wasn’t.” (Jaime, AFFC)

From the official WOIAF app, for Cersei Lannister:

As children, Jaime and Cersei look so similar that occasionally Cersei dons her brother’s clothing and takes lessons from the Maser-at-Arms in his stead, without anyone realizing. The two are extremely close–to the point that, even as children, they began to play at being lovers.

What I conclude from the above quotes is that Jaime and Cersei have always had a very close and intimate relationship, and it’s always been very physical. I don’t think that Jaime and Cersei lost their virginity at seven years old – they only “played at being lovers” – but they were interested in sex even at such a young age, and they wanted to imitate it, as much as their limited understanding would allow at seven. Though note that Cersei considers Jaime to have been her lover “since we were children together.”

The text doesn’t tell us exactly what Joanna’s maid caught Jaime and Cersei doing, but it was something inappropriate enough that Joanna felt it necessary to send the maid away to keep it secret. Joanna also moved Jaime’s bedroom to the other side of the Rock (a distance perhaps as great as seven leagues – basically from one side of a modern major city to another side) and she placed a guard outside Cersei’s door as a precaution. Gossip and rumors spread easily throughout Casterly Rock (see: Gregor’s crimes) and it’s hard for me to believe that Jaime’s new bedroom and the guard outside Cersei’s door occasioned no whispered comment from servants and other Lannisters. Joanna obviously felt that whatever happened between Jaime and Cersei was bad enough that it was worth the gossip. I don’t think that should be easily dismissed in a family that is so obsessed with reputation. 

Also note that Joanna wanted to send one of her children to be fostered with the unnamed princess of Dorne, even though everyone agreed that Tywin would object to such a plan and Joanna would have needed to persuade him. 

So basically Joanna wanted to put a continent between Jaime and Cersei, even against Tywin’s wishes. Even if you think Joanna overreacted, I don’t think Joanna’s actions and plans are the type of reaction that happens when your kids are just playing maester. (And Lannister maesters do some weird shit themselves ok.) And Joanna seems to have been ok with Jaime and Cersei "creep[ing] into each other’s beds and sleep[ing] with their arms entwined” or at least we aren’t told that she objected to it. (And btw a lot of Westerosi people sleep naked, including Lannisters like Tyrion.)

Again, I don’t think Jaime and Cersei were having penis-in-vagina sex at seven years old, but I think they were doing something … Extreme. I mean … this is the family of 77 course feasts and cloth-of-gold capes that are probably worth kingdoms. Extreme is their middle name, with Tywin’s line the most Extreme of all. I mean, we’re talking specifically about two people that, the moment they were reunited, fucked on the altar of the sept next to the body of their dead son. And we’re talking about Cersei, who, as a little girl, stuck her hand in a lion’s cage and taunted a witch and murdered her friend. Frankly, if Jaime and Cersei weren’t doing something Extreme together at seven years old, I’m gonna be Extremely disappointed in GRRM. I’ll save my Extremely Specific Headcanons about what happened between the twins when they were seven for another day, but I personally consider the events of 273 to be the forerunner of Jaime and Cersei’s sexual relationship.

I think an important thing to consider is that Cersei was already being sexualized in 272 or 273, when she was only “six or seven,” when Tywin promised her that she would be Rhaegar’s wife. Westeros is an extremely patriarchal society, and Cersei was being raised to think of herself as a man’s sexual possession. She even drew pictures of herself “with her arms wrapped tight about [Rhaegar’s] chest”. And if you wanna get Freudian, in her drawing, she was riding on Rhaegar’s dragon … isn’t my blog great, friends?

And so here you have baby Cersei being raised “to smile and sing and please”. “I was to be sold to some stranger like a horse, to be ridden whenever my new owner liked, beaten whenever he liked, and cast aside in time for a younger filly.” 

Even as a child, I think Cersei understands that she must please Rhaegar, and be a good wife to him. Even now, even years and years and years later, Cersei thinks of how she would never have given Rhaegar cause to stray from her bed, how she would have given him sons, how she would have pleased him as his queen: 

“If she had only married Rhaegar as the gods intended, he would never have looked twice at the wolf girl. Rhaegar would be our king today and I would be his queen, the mother of his sons. She had never forgiven Robert for killing him.”

Cersei thinks to herself how there was no “better man” than Rhaegar. And this is Tywin’s daughter we’re talking about. The Lannister children have defined themselves as Tywin’s children, and that’s shaped so much about all of them, but it’s really fucked Cersei up, arguably even more than her brothers. (We debate about whether Tyrion or Jaime will live, whether they will do heroic things in future books, etc; we’re all pretty certain Cersei will die, and will die a villain, given her strict adherence to Tywin’s philosophies. Tywin fucked Cersei up beyond hope.)  “Lord Tywin’s daughter was the first through the flap”. Cersei has lived her whole life trying not to disappoint her father, to be the boldest, the bravest, the most beautiful, the best at everything. 

How do you get to be the best? Why, you practice, of course. 

Cersei is told at “six or seven” that she will be Rhaegar’s wife, and then (covertly, without Jaime understanding the reasons) Cersei ~researched~ how it was done by observing “mares and stallions in the fields and dogs and bitches in the kennels” and then at seven she “began to play at being lovers” with Jaime. (I believe Cersei initiated this “play”.) I think this is something very sad, very tragic. 

(Plus, I’m very fond of the idea that Tywin has contributed to All The Problems by upholding Westerosi patriarchy and sexualizing a six year old girl and shoving her into the idea of marriage.)

I obviously think there’s a lot more to Jaime and Cersei’s relationship, since I ship it like FedEx (in a gouge-your-eyes-out-no-happy-endings-allowed sort of way), but that’s how I think the relationship first got … real inappropriate. 

But what are some other reasons why Jaime and Cersei would embark on an incestuous relationship?

Well, like I said, they were twins, so that immediately establishes a close bond between the two of them that excludes everyone else (”everyone who isn’t us is an enemy”). I quote @inkandcayenne‘s beautiful fic like it’s canon (it is canon to me) but like

There was a time before he began to think of them as separate.  In the sept she bends her head to hear his whispered joke and locks of Jaime’s hair fall over her slender neck, and when their hands entwine you cannot tell whose fingers are whose.  They move in tandem, with a grace Tyrion can only imagine; at breakfast he slides a pot of jam toward her, she a pitcher of milk toward him, without either having to ask.  He first learns to say their names as one, holding his arms out when they walk past his crib: up, Jaimencersei, up.  Only one of them ever stops to pick him up, but he expects that.  They are two halves of the same whole, one cruel and one kind, the way the moon has bright and dark faces.  

The world is divided into the twins and everyone else, and everyone else must not know of it: the whispers and creakings he hears coming from her room, their flushed faces, a tangle of limbs and golden hair happened upon in a dark corridor, though it’s years before he has a word for what he sees.  Nothing could seem more natural to him, yet he knows it’s a secret without knowing what a secret is.  Jaime brings him lemon drops and ruffles his hair: you mustn’t tell Father.  He wouldn’t even know how to describe what he saw.  

If you love something you must keep it secret.  It’s the first time he learns the lesson, but not the last.  [x]

Cersei and Jaime have a bond between each other, it makes them think of each other as “more than brother and sister. We are one person in two bodies.” Combine their identity as twins with Tywin’s philosophy that Lannisters are “worth more” and no one else is worthy of them (Robert killed the only person who Cersei thinks might have been a worthy husband), and add in the idea that the world is divided into Lannisters and enemies, and I think it’s clear Tywin really fucked them up, long before they actually started fucking. 

Also, you have to remember that Jaime and Cersei were dealing with the trauma of their mother’s death around this time, and I think they were dealing with it pretty much alone (except for, like, y’know, 777 servants). 

King’s Landing had never loved Lord Tywin. He never wanted love, though. "You cannot eat love, nor buy a horse with it, nor warm your halls on a cold night,” she heard him tell Jaime once, when her brother had been no older than Tommen [Tommen is eight or nine here].

Jaime was seven when Joanna died, and after her death Tywin is like, “Fuck love, what good is it?” I don’t think Tywin offered a lot of emotional comfort to Jaime and Cersei, and I think they grew more dependent on each other emotionally after Joanna’s death.

And then I think you have Jaime and Cersei’s relationship developing as a backlash against what Cersei feels is the injustice of patriarchal institutions. 

“at your birth, Jaime […] You and Cersei, pink and perfect, as alike as two peas in a pod … well, except between the legs.”

“When we were little, Jaime and I were so much alike that even our lord father could not tell us apart. Sometimes as a lark we would dress in each other’s clothes and spend a whole day each as the other. Yet even so, when Jaime was given his first sword, there was none for me. ‘What do I get?’ I remember asking. We were so much alike, I could never understand why they treated us so differently.” 

“She dreamt she sat the Iron Throne, high above them all.”

“Jaime’s lot was to be glory and power, while mine was birth and moonblood.”

“A pity Lord Tywin Lannister never had a son. I could have been the heir he wanted, but I lacked the cock.”

“When he is in me, I feel … whole.” The ghost of a smile flitted over her lips.

With Jaime, Cersei can be the person she always felt like she deserved to be. She can go hang out with her dad and have Tywin treat her as his heir (“even our lord father could not tell us apart”) and, per the WOIAF app, she could take up a sword and train with the CR Master-At-Arms, and she can pretend, at least for a day, that her destiny is “glory and power” and she can feel what it’s like to be Tywin’s “most beloved child” (WOIAF app) and to ask the question, “What do I get?” and not be left empty handed. 

And every other male in the world, everyone except Jaime, is going to see Cersei as someone less. What a torment for a Lannister – to be less. But it’s not like that with Jaime. Jaime sees Cersei as his twin, his mirror, his equal – “if I were a woman, I’d be Cersei.”  

Like, by AFFC, Jaime is the only person left in the world for Cersei, and she hates it. She hates that no one else will treat her with the respect she deserves, that Jaime is the only one who will recognize her as a full human being. (FFS, Cersei’s own uncle let her walk naked through the city streets while she was pelted with garbage. !!!!!!!!) 

And obviously the incest during Cersei’s marriage to Robert was meant to be revenge, because Robert was still obsessed with Lyanna, because Robert abused her, because Robert was a disappointment. idk, I like the idea that the incest evolved as a response to Cersei trying to conform to patriarchal institutions and eventually turned into Cersei’s way of saying “Fuck what patriarchy did to me and what it denied me.”

And I realize I’ve given a lot more reasons why Cersei benefits from an incestuous relationship than Jaime does, but this post pretty much says everything, how Jaime lives for Cersei. So “Why incest?” Because Cersei means so much to Jaime (unfortunately, a lot of that meaning that Jaime has ascribed to Cersei isn’t who she truly is)

I think Cersei gets more out of the relationship than Jaime, tho. and I think that’s on purpose, and I think that’s why in AFFC / ADWD you see Jaime doubting their relationship and they move away from each other. 

I think Jaime’s just … always loved his family, and in this case he loved his family a little too much. It was something natural for Jaime. Cersei was his best friend, he enjoyed her company (“He could never bear to be long apart from his twin”), they were twins, they thought of themselves as special. So by AFFC Jaime realizes he basically has no friends. 

And Jaime just … Jaime thought they were gods together, “I thought I was the Warrior and she the Maid” – who is a god to love, save another god? 

(Also “keeping the bloodlines pure” I SWEAR I’M STILL WORKING ON MY LANNISTER FASCISM ESSAY, JUST GIVE ME TIME)

(Cersei was extremely jealous of Jaime’s company as children, she didn’t want other girls to even think about taking him away from her, so I think Cersei just made a point of hanging out with Jaime.)

ok I could probably talk more about the “why” part of your question, but I’m gonna wrap this up with the “how” part right now. (If I had more time, I would make charts and diagrams and shit for this post, I love Jaime and Cersei so much.)

Like I said above, I think of the discovery by the maid in 273 as a stepping stone to Jaime and Cersei’s fullblown incestuous relationship. 

When Cersei and Jaime were fifteen years old:

“Is it a rock you want? Or me?”

He remembered that night [in 281AC] as if it were yesterday. They spent it in an old inn on Eel Alley, well away from watchful eyes. Cersei had come to him dressed as a simple serving wench, which somehow excited him all the more. Jaime had never seen her more passionate. Every time he went to sleep, she woke him again. By morning Casterly Rock seemed a small price to pay to be near her always. He gave his consent, and Cersei promised to do the rest. (Jaime, ASOS)

She smiled for him, so sweetly. “Do you remember the first time I came to you like this? It was some dismal inn off Weasel Alley, and I put on servant’s garb to get past Father’s guards.”

“I remember. It was Eel Alley.” She wants something of me. “Why are you here, at this hour? What would you have of me?” (Jaime, AFFC)

I don’t think this time on Eel Alley is the first time Jaime and Cersei had sex. It’s the first time Cersei dressed up like a peasant (first costumed sex!! first roleplay!! so proud of my babies!!) (but not the last time?) but “Jaime had never seen her more passionate” so he had seen her passionate before? Cersei seems like she knows what she’s doing here. 

So I would put the beginning of their sexual relationship before this, although this is the first textual example we have. 

Like I said earlier, Tywin sexualized Cersei at a very young age, and she was already at age 7 treating sex acts like a weapon (ie twisting Tyrion’s penis).

While for Jaime … here’s a very short list of Westerosi men and the ages at which they lost their virginity. (I put Jaime with a question mark, cuz the above is what we have documented.) I think I would put Jaime in the 13 or 14 age group, during the time when Jaime is a squire and he would be facing pressure to perform the ~~“rituals of masculinity”~~ to lose his virginity. 

We know that Jaime visited Cersei at Casterly Rock when he was 13 or 14. Maybe Cersei first started menstruating at 11 or 12, and they had sex at 13. I guess one of them secretly crept into the other’s room, like they usually do? 

I can see them doing a lot of experimentation /  mutual masturbation that just eventually evolves into sex.

I hope that answers your questions?

…I have way too many opinions about Lannister sex lives.