#greco-egyptian interactions

[aboutanancientenquiry]

The Apries Amphora

Amphora with cartouche

Cartouches with hieroglyphs spelling out Wahibre and Haaibre, the names of Apries, encircle the neck. Below two boxers face each other over a cauldron. The cartouches and the boxers loin cloths are Egyptian features, but the shape and style of the vase are Greek.

It was probably made to order in Ionia for a customer in Egypt.

Made in north Ionia, about 550 BC. Found in Thebes, Egypt.

On loan from the collection of Herbert Cahn (HC1175) and the Petrie Museum (UC30035-ab)

British Museum

Source: https://www.flickr.com/photos/24729615@N00/7689958022

Detail of the Apries Amphora with the cartouches of Apries

Source: https://www.flickr.com/photos/antiquitiesproject/21222466542

Very interesting artifact! But I think that the production date for this amphora is perhaps some decades earlier than the date given above, because by 550 BCE ordering an amphora with the cartouches of Apries would be rather dangerous for an Egyptian: Apries, who had ascended the throne in 589 BCE, was overthrown in 570 BCE by a revolt of his Egyptian troops led by general Amasis and, according to contemporary Egyptian sources, he was killed in 567 BCE during an attempt to reclaim the throne with Babylonian help. Afterward Amasis ruled unperturbed as Pharaoh till his death in 526 BCE. It is difficult for me to imagine that even an Apries loyalist would dare to defy openly Amasis’ power by ordering and possessing an amphora with the cartouches of Apries that Amasis had overthrown and killed, given also that most Egyptians disliked, as it seems, Apries. The fall and death of Apries as a result of a revolt of the Egyptian troops and the rise of Amasis to the throne are narrated by Herodotus in Book II of Histories, although without mention of a Babylonian intervention in favor of Apries.

[connabeth]

rick really woke up and said "what if i give the people what they want for once" and gave us grumpy black cat introvert percy and sunshine golden retriever extrovert annabeth we never knew we needed

also no one's talking about how percy made friends with annabeth's college's security guard (Florence or smthn?) so he's the only one allowed to walk in her campus anytime?

also I found a typo in the third chapter where dave was accidentally called paul which I found really funny

1) i’m glad this series is doing justice to annabeth’s personality because she spent so much of pjo & hoo caught in an inner turmoil of hurt and uncertainty and self-loathing and insecurity and fear given the circumstances of luke’s betrayal and percy’s imminent death. in spite of it all, she was still a bastion of hope and light throughout those books, but she deserves to be silly and unburdened by the weight of the world now that she has percy back and there’s no big prophecy (unresolved trauma aside). i think, in her mind, even though new, crazy things keep being thrown at them and she most certainly deals with a latent fear of losing percy at any moment, she’s resolute and confident that they can overcome anything that gets in their way of their dream of going to college and finding peace together because she feels that invigorated and wants it that bad. even if greco-egyptian gods or a triple goddess or a mortal apollo pop up throughout their senior year. i feel like she’s giving herself the freedom to just let go, breathe, be sure everything will be okay in the end, and just be excited about things without drowning in worry for once, which i love. she deserves to feel that childlike enthusiasm she was deprived of for so long. her confidence that they’ll be okay extends to percy being able to complete all his classwork and applications, which in turn reinforces his determination.

2) as for percy, he’s definitely the more outwardly insecure out of the two, mainly because of how his academic prowess pales in comparison to hers and the fact that he feels he doesn’t deserve her and she’s way better than him. percy thinking her SODNYC friends perceive him in the same critical light obviously isn’t helping. it’s evident in the way he’s amazed when he looks at her, disbelieving for a second that she’s his girlfriend, and how he observes her interaction with others more similar to her, feeling like an outsider who can’t understand that part of her brain the way her friends can. it’s even more abundantly clear when he believes “She would always succeed whether I was around or not,” which in theory is a sweet sentiment to have about your very capable girlfriend, but academic and social success aside, she needs him as much as he needs her and she’d see no point in being in california without him. but his insecurities and easy jealousy prevent him from fully understanding this even if he innately knows it’s a universal truth that they’re meant to be together. however, all this being said, percy’s characterization in wottg so far is a little…weird. in order for you to literally pee your pants, something must scare you or catch you off guard really, really bad. so while it makes sense for him to fear a powerful goddess, wetting his boxers seems like an extreme reaction. i know rick was probably just trying to insert immature humor, but the implications are not what he was going for considering this is the boy who didn’t have that reaction staring down titans and giants and nyx and tartarus himself. so forgive me if i think it’s a little insane that percy having such a visceral reaction to a goddess 13 year old hazel fared well against is out of character, even after taking into consideration his fear of not receiving and completing the remaining quests on time. it makes sense for him to be nervous and on edge, given the quiet of the past month, but that amount of fear towards a deity who’s not the most scary thing he’s faced down is an interesting choice since rick isn’t known for realistic depictions of PTSD and that likely isn’t the intention here. it’s also curious how it’s implied even a goddess as primordial as aphrodite caves in to hecate…

3) florence is the goat and i love percy making random friends to help his cause. he doesn’t go out of his way to befriend others in the mortal world unless they approach him first or there’s an opportunity there. and the fact that annabeth can a casually ask her friend to cover for her being gone from her dorm for several days makes me think this is far from the first time she’s snuck out for prolonged periods of time👀

4) this is an INSANE typo to have in a book because clearly not a single person proofread it and it doesn’t surprise me that it got past rick, but becky and several rounds of editors and everyone else in his circle who’s read the book not picking up on it prior to publication is wild. rick is too eager to have his self-insert be everywhere and it shows💀

[givemearmstopraywith]

i just watched someone saying "christianity is and always will be the cultural appropriation of religions" and they mentioned the resurrection, which surprises me a little. do you know what they could be referring to? they also called it a very common trope and i'm no theologian, don't know that much about other religions or mythology, so maybe you could help?

resurrection narratives are absolutely not unique to christianity. there are resurrection narratives in the religion of ancient egypt (osiris), greece (adonis, zagreus, dionysus, and attus), and sumer (dumuzid and inanna). all of these predate christianity by centuries. to consider resurrection myths appropriation is, however, rather ignorant: the mythologies of the ancient near east are absolutely woven together, to the point where they are almost indistinguishable from each other, especially in the early history of the hebrews. the roman empire was heavily influenced by hellenic culture, religion, and philosophy. consider dionysus, the god of wine: plutarch stated that the stories of osiris and dionysus were identical and that the secret rituals asociated with them were obviously paralleled: the second century AD saw the emergence of greco-egyptian pantheons where the god serapis was synonymous with osiris, hades, and dionysus. this is also similar to the interrelationship between inanna, ishtar, asherah, astarte, and multiple other near eastern female deities (and she likely played an influence in the development of lilith as well). how much did the cult of dionysus influence later rites of the wine and the eucharist in early christianity, especially given that within fifty years of christ's death most christians were greeks? romulus and remus were said to have been born to a virgin, and so was the founder of zoroastrianism, zoroaster, a religion that influenced platonic philosophy and all abrahamic faiths.

christianity is more guilty of appropriation that most other faith practices of appropriation because of the crudeness and hatefulness with which it borrowed judaism and then turned on the jews. but attempting to divide western and near eastern religious traditions into pure (original) and impure (appropriated) is next to impossible. otherwise we can start trying to particularize everything as either pure or impure and discard what we deem as "impure" or unoriginal because we think it is valueless, hackneyed, or unethical. religion does not work like that. christianity does require critical consumption and practice because it has both appropriated judaism and because the way in which it exerted itself as a dominant religion over other faith practices. and the appropriation of judaism must be especially viewed as troubling, because judaism cannot be compared, historically, to religions like those of ancient egypt and greece because until the state of israel it was never a dominant or state religion, and the fact that it survived some odd thousand years without being recognized as a state religion is part of why it's particularly interesting. of course, that has changed now, but this ask isn't about israel/palestine and i won't dwell on it this issue much except to reaffirm that christianity appropriating an oppressed minority religion that emerged out of colonial contexts is very different than christianity utilizing aspects of ancient greek religion or zoroastrianism, and also different from jesus being included in islam, for instance.

interestingly, quetzalcoatl, from the ancient aztec religion, was the patron of priests and a symbol of resurrection. this gestures to the hidden sacred, eliade's hierophany: the hidden holiness, the sacrality and beingness of something beyond ourselves, that underlies all existence, with its own explicit truths that emerge consistently in faith practices that, unlike those of the near east, never interacted. maybe we all carried the same stories out of the cradle of civilization; maybe there is a perpetual and accessible truth that transcends boundaries. i don't know. but everything is borrowed. everything is copy. humanity is not capable of true originality: and isn't that beautiful? everything is taken in communion. everyone is interconnected. everyone wants to believe something, and we seem to be universally compelled by the same truths, motifs, meanings, and stories.

[gemsofgreece]

do you know the connection between poppies and ancient greece? all over athens and on acropolis there was alot of poppies- then they were depicted in objects at the national archeological museum aswell (crystal staff with poppy ontop). just curious!

Poppies had a lot of significance for the ancient peoples of the East Mediterranean and the Near East, such as the Sumerians, the Egyptians and the Greeks.

Poppies and poppy seeds had considerable presence in early Greek culture, namely the Mycenaean and Minoan civilizations. A lot of this significance survived to the Classical period and up to the Greco-Roman era. The poppy seeds were used in rituals, worship and medication for their psychoactive effects.

Demeter consumed poppy seeds to sleep and forget the abduction of Persephone. Apollo and Asclepius used them for medicinal purposes. Aphrodite was sometimes imagined with poppies, apparently for its seeds generating sensations of pleasure. Hypnos, Nyx and Morpheus, deities associated with sleep, night and dreams respectively, were also often imagined with poppies in their hands. The drug morphine, produced from the poppy seed, takes its name from Morpheus. The name opium, for the basic drug produced by the poppy's seeds, also comes from the Koine Greek name for it όπιον (ópion), and so does even Afyon Karahishar, the Turkish city in which one third of the global cultivation of poppy takes place. Extra fan fact: there was a double lexical borrowing and Greek opion through some modifications apparently towards ophion -> arabic afyun -> turkish afyon -> then returned back to post-Byzantine / old Modern Greek as αφιόνι (afióni). So, in Greek opium is both όπιο(ν) - ópio(n) and αφιόνι (afióni). Even though the old word όπιο is far more common, there is an interesting verb derived from αφιόνι, αφιονίζομαι (afionízome) which means "I go mad, delirious like I am under the influence of opium". Usually used when someone gets angry to the point of not making sense. You didn't ask for etymology and language lesson lol but my point was to show that evidently, even lingusitically, we see that poppies and the psychoactive, hypnotic and medicinal properties of its seeds were widely used in the Ancient Greek and then Greco-Roman world all the way until and beyond the interactions with the Arabs and the Turks, as the Greek words associated to the products of the poppy have travelled both west and east.

Carving of Demeter holding poppy seeds and wheat, Corinth, Greece photographed by Tiggrx on flickr.

Poppy field in Paros island. From DiscoverGreece.

PS 1: Since I made an etymology analysis for opium, the ancient Greek word for the poppy was μήκων (mekon) but the modern Greek one derives from the Latin papaver instead and is παπαρούνα (paparúna).

PS 2: The red poppy and the poppy that makes the drugs are not the same species but obviously all these exist in Greece so-

[khensaptah]

Mystic Egyptian Polytheism Resource List

Because I wanted to do a little more digging into the philosophy elements explored in Mahmoud's book, I took the time tonight to pull together the recommended reading he listed toward the end of each chapter. The notes included are his own.

MEP discusses Pharaonic Egypt and Hellenistic Egypt, and thus some of these sources are relevant to Hellenic polytheists (hence me intruding in those tags)!

Note: extremely long text post under this read more.

What Are The Gods And The Myths?

ψ Jeremy Naydler’s Temple of the Cosmos: The Ancient Egyptian Experience of the Sacred is my top text recommendation for further exploration of this topic. It dives deep into how the ancients envisioned the gods and proposes how the various Egyptian cosmologies can be reconciled. ψ Jan Assmann’s Egyptian Solar Religion in the New Kingdom: Re, Amun and the Crisis of Polytheism focuses on New Kingdom theology by analyzing and comparing religious literature. Assmann fleshes out a kind of “monistic polytheism,” as well as a robust culture of personal piety that is reflected most prominently in the religious literature of this period. He shows how New Kingdom religious thought was an antecedent to concepts in Hermeticism and Neoplatonism. ψ Moustafa Gadalla’s Egyptian Divinities: The All Who Are The One provides a modern Egyptian analysis of the gods, including reviews of the most significant deities. Although Gadalla is not an academic, his insights and contributions as a native Egyptian Muslim with sympathies towards the ancient religion are valuable.

How to Think like an Egyptian

ψ Jan Assmann’s The Mind of Egypt: History and Meaning in the Time of the Pharaohs is my top text recommendation for further exploration of this topic. It illuminates Egyptian theology by exploring their ideals, values, mentalities, belief systems, and aspirations from the Old Kingdom period to the Ptolemaic period. ψ Garth Fowden’s The Egyptian Hermes: A Historical Approach to the Late Pagan Mind identifies the Egyptian character of religion and wisdom in late antiquity and provides a cultural and historical context to the Hermetica, a collection of Greco-Egyptian religious texts. ψ Christian Bull’s The Tradition of Hermes Trismegistus: The Egyptian Priestly Figure as a Teacher of Hellenized Wisdom provides a rich assessment of the Egyptian religious landscape at the end of widespread polytheism in Egypt and how it came to interact with and be codified in Greek schools of thought and their writings.

How To Think Like A Neoplatonist

Radek Chlup’s Proclus: An Introduction is my top text recommendation for further exploration of this topic. It addresses the Neoplatonic system of Proclus but gives an excellent overview of Neoplatonism generally. It contains many valuable graphics and charts that help illustrate the main ideas within Neoplatonism. ψ John Opsopaus’ The Secret Texts of Hellenic Polytheism: A Practical Guide to the Restored Pagan Religion of George Gemistos Plethon succinctly addresses several concepts in Neoplatonism from the point of view of Gemistos Plethon, a crypto-polytheist who lived during the final years of the Byzantine Empire. It provides insight into the practical application of Neoplatonism to ritual and religion. ψ Algis Uzdavinys’ Philosophy as a Rite of Rebirth: From Ancient Egypt to Neoplatonism draws connections between theological concepts and practices in Ancient Egypt to those represented in the writings and practices of the Neoplatonists.

What Is “Theurgy,” And How Do You Make A Prayer “Theurgical?”

ψ Jeffrey Kupperman’s Living Theurgy: A Course in Iamblichus’ Philosophy, Theology and Theurgy is my top text recommendation for further exploration of this topic. It is a practical guide on theurgy, complete with straightforward explanations of theurgical concepts and contemplative exercises for practice. ψ Gregory Shaw’s Theurgy and the Soul: The Neoplatonism of Iamblichus demonstrates how Iamblichus used religious ritual as the primary tool of the soul’s ascent towards God. He lays out how Iamblichus proposed using rites to achieve henosis. ψ Algis Uzdavinys’ Philosophy and Theurgy in Late Antiquity explores the various ways theurgy operated in the prime of its widespread usage. He focuses mainly on temple rites and how theurgy helped translate them into personal piety rituals.

What Is “Demiurgy,” And How Do I Do Devotional, “Demiurgical” Acts?

ψ Shannon Grimes’ Becoming Gold: Zosimos of Panopolis and the Alchemical Arts in Roman Egypt is my top text recommendation for further exploration of this topic. It constitutes an in-depth look at Zosimos—an Egyptian Hermetic priest, scribe, metallurgist, and alchemist. It explores alchemy (ancient chemistry and metallurgy) as material rites of the soul’s ascent. She shows how Zosimos believed that partaking in these practical arts produced divine realities and spiritual advancements. ψ Alison M. Robert’s Hathor’s Alchemy: The Ancient Egyptian Roots of the Hermetic Art delves deep temple inscriptions and corresponding religious literature from the Pharaonic period and demonstrates them as premises for alchemy. These texts “alchemize” the “body” of the temple, offering a model for the “alchemizing” of the self. ψ A.J. Arberry’s translation of Farid al-Din Attar’s Muslim Saints and Mystics: Episodes from the Tadhkirat al-Auliya contains a chapter on the Egyptian Sufi saint Dhul-Nun al-Misri (sometimes rendered as Dho‘l-Nun al-Mesri). He is regarded as an alchemist, thaumaturge, and master of Egyptian hieroglyphics. It contains apocryphal stories of his ascetic and mystic life as a way of “living demiurgically.” It is an insightful glimpse into how the Ancient Egyptian arts continued into new religious paradigms long after polytheism was no longer widespread in Egypt.

Further Reading

Contemporary Works Assmann, Jan. 1995. Egyptian Solar Religion in the New Kingdom: Re, Amun and the Crisis of Polytheism. Translated by Anthony Alcock. Kegan Paul International. Assmann, Jan. 2003. The Mind of Egypt: History and Meaning in the Time of the Pharaohs. Harvard University Press. Bull, Christian H. 2019. The Tradition of Hermes Trismegistus: The Egyptian Priestly Figure as a Teacher of Hellenized Wisdom. Brill. Chlup, Radek. 2012. Proclus: An Introduction. Cambridge University Press. Escolano-Poveda, Marina. 2008. The Egyptian Priests of the Graeco-Roman Period. Brill. Fowden, Garth. 1986. The Egyptian Hermes: A Historical Approach to the Late Pagan Mind. Cambridge University Press. Freke, Tim, and Peter Gandy. 2008. The Hermetica: The Lost Wisdom of the Pharaohs. Jeremy P. Tarcher/Penguin. Gadalla, Moustafa. 2001. Egyptian Divinities: The All Who Are The One. Tehuti Research Foundation. Grimes, Shannon. 2019. Becoming Gold: Zosimos of Panopolis and the Alchemical Arts in Roman Egypt. Princeton University Press. Jackson, Howard. 2017. “A New Proposal for the Origin of the Hermetic God Poimandres.” Aries: Journal for the Study of Western Esotericism 17 (2): 193-212. Kupperman, Jeffrey. 2014. Living Theurgy: A Course in Iamblichus’ Philosophy, Theology and Theurgy. Avalonia. Mierzwicki, Tony. 2011. Graeco-Egyptian Magick: Everyday Empowerment. Llewellyn Publications. Naydler, Jeremy. 1996. Temple of the Cosmos: The Ancient Egyptian Experience of the Sacred. Inner Traditions. Opsopaus, J. 2006. The Secret Texts of Hellenic Polytheism: A Practical Guide to the Restored Pagan Religion of George Gemistos Plethon. New York: Llewellyn Publications. Roberts, Alison M. 2019. Hathor’s Alchemy: The Ancient Egyptian Roots of the Hermetic Art. Northgate Publishers. Shaw, Gregory. 1995. Theurgy and the Soul: The Neoplatonism of Iamblichus. 2nd ed. Angelico Press. Snape, Steven. 2014. The Complete Cities of Ancient Egypt. Thames & Hudson. Uzdavinys, Algis. 1995. Philosophy and Theurgy in Late Antiquity. Wheaton, IL: Quest Books. Uzdavinys, Algis. 2008. Philosophy as a Rite of Rebirth: From Ancient Egypt to Neoplatonism. Lindisfarne Books. Wilkinson, Richard H. 2000. The Complete Temples of Ancient Egypt. Thames & Hudson.

Ancient Sources in Translation Attar, Farid al-Din. 1966. Muslim Saints and Mystics: Episodes from the Tadhkirat alAuliya. Translated by A.J. Arberry. London: Routledge & Kegan Paul. Betz, Hans Dieter. 1992. The Greek Magical Papyri in Translation, Including the Demotic Spells. Chicago: University of Chicago Press. Copenhaver, Brian P. 1995. Hermetica: The Greek Corpus Hermeticum and the Latin Asclepius in a New English Translation, with Notes and Introduction. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. Guthrie, Kenneth. 1988. The Pythagorean Sourcebook and Library: An Anthology of Ancient Writings which Relate to Pythagoras and Pythagorean Philosophy. Grand Rapids, MI: Phanes Press. Iamblichus. 1988. The Theology of Arithmetic. Translated by Robin Waterfield. Grand Rapids, MI: Phanes Press. Iamblichus. 2003. Iamblichus: On the Mysteries. Translated by Clarke, E., Dillon, J. M., & Hershbell, J. P. Atlanta: Society of Biblical Literature. Iamblichus. 2008. The Life of Pythagoras (Abridged). Translated by Thomas Taylor. Whitefish, MT: Kessinger Publishing. Lichtheim, Miriam. 1973-1980. Ancient Egyptian Literature. Volumes I-III. Berkeley: University of California Press. Litwa, M. David. 2018. Hermetica II. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. Majercik, Ruth. 1989. The Chaldean Oracles: Text, Translation, and Commentary. Leiden: Brill. Plato. 1997. Plato: Complete Works. Edited by John M. Cooper and D. S. Hutchinson. Indianapolis: Hackett Publishing. Plotinus. 1984-1988. The Enneads. Volumes 1-7. Translated by A.H. Armstrong. Cambridge, Massachusetts: Harvard University Press. Van der Horst, Pieter Willem. 1984. The Fragments of Chaeremon, Egyptian Priest and Stoic Philosopher. Leiden: E.J. Brill.

[fizzyfishepicgaymer]

Sethno (Sethos & Cyno) relationship analysis pt. 2!

Comparing their visual designs

Who is Hermanubis and how did he shape the course of their lives?

Oathkeeper (Cyno's 2nd story quest) - Sethos's introduction as a playable character (NPC at the time of release) and his interactions with Cyno

Mirrors/parallels with each other

Sethos’s story and voicelines – finalising their relationship: who are Sethos and Cyno to each other and why are their lives so intertwined/their stories so inevitably interconnected?

Conclusion! (or more like a few last words from me)

PART 2 - Who is Hermanubis and how did he shape the course of their lives?

First of all, let’s think about this – who exactly is Hermanubis? In real life, Hermanubis is a Greco-Egyptian god composed of two deities – Hermes and Anubis, both of whom similarly were associated with the conduct of the souls of the dead into the afterlife. He is commonly represented with the head of a jackal (reminiscent of Anubis) and the body of a Greek deity. Hermanubis’s role as a deity is concerned with guiding the souls of the deceased from the earthly realm to the afterlife, and combined Hermes’s role as a messenger and conductor of souls into the underworld with Anubis’s role as the guardian of the dead.

Now, let’s talk about the 2 Gods separately!

Hermes is a Greek god associated with the protection of travellers, the cattle and also acts as a guide to the afterlife. He is considered one of the most clever and mischievous of the 12 Olympic gods and came to symbolise the crossing of boundaries as a guide between the two realms of “gods” and “humanity” due to his role as a messenger. He was known for his curiosity and his constant search for amusement and was considered to be somewhat of a trickster. He was credited with inventing fire, the alphabet, dice and musical instruments – in particular, the lyre. His Latin name – Mercury – is the name of the fastest planet to orbit the Sun.

Meanwhile, Anubis (also known as Inpu, Inpw or Anpu) is the Egyptian god of mummification, funerary rites, guardian of tombs and guide to the afterlife, as well as the patron god of lost souls and the helpless. He was essentially the protector of the dead who made sure that they received their rights in burial and stood with them after their death – and also in this role he was associated with “eternal justice”. The most popular depiction of Anubis is that of him standing or kneeling while holding the golden scales on which the heart of the soul was weighed against the white feather of truth. His name’s meaning was “to decay” – signifying his association with death, and he was also known as “the Ruler over the Nine Bows” which is a reference to the phrase used for traditional enemies of Egypt who were represented as nine captives bowing before the king. So… Sounds familiar? Cyno’s 4th ascension passive is called “Authority over the Nine Bows”!

So… what does that have to do with either of them? If u look closely, u can see many resemblances between Sethos and Hermes, and Cyno and Anubis respectively. In Sethos’s drip marketing post, it is said:

“Inexperienced travelers often find themselves trapped by the vast, boundless sea of sand. Were it not for the timely guidance of a kind soul, their journey of exploration might have come to an untimely end, cruelly cut short. Many of those who were lost and returned to their companions on the road all had the same name upon their lips: Sethos.”“As a desert-dweller, Sethos knows the paths between the various oases like the back of his hand, and his mastery of using techniques of navigation – such as using the sun’s position to calculate direction – runs even deeper. As a personal interest, Sethos enjoys traveling by foot between desert and rainforest, and the navigational skills he’s acquired are a product of his personal experiences doing so. As for being enthusiastic and talkative, by speaking with Eremites chance met on the road or listening to the fascinating anecdotes of hapless scholars rescued from swamp and marsh, not only can he broaden his knowledge and horizons, but also have a lot of fun. For Sethos, that is where the joy of the journey lies.”

As for Cyno, let’s take a look at his lore entry in the Genshin Wiki (since I couldn’t find much in his drop marketing post): 

“Notably, Cyno idolizes "justice" above all; though this predominantly manifests in his pursuit of suspected criminals, Cyno will also protect criminals from any danger that arises during their escape attempts until they can, in his view, be properly judged by the Akademiya. Although he is often viewed by the Akademiya's scholars as an obstacle or a threat to their research (complaints to which Cyno is indifferent), Cyno views his role as that of a protector, preventing seekers of knowledge from being led astray and becoming dangers to both themselves and the world.”

So… thinking about it, this would mean that essentially Sethos represents the “Hermes” part and Cyno represents the “Anubis” part of Hermanubis and that is kinda neat!

Now, in the Genshin universe - According to the Genshin Wiki, in the lore Hermanubis was a priest in the Great Red Sand during King Deshret’s reign and was known as “the greatest of all sages” due to his wisdom. He was also the founder of the original Temple of Silence in the long-gone ancient city of Tulaytullah. Although Hermanubis has now been long gone, fragments of his power, known as the Ba Fragments, still remain. 2 of those fragments were kept in the Temple of Silence and at the beginning they were planted into different people as a part of the experiment to bring back Hermanubis’s glory and find suitable vessels for his power, however the fragments rejected adult bodies (and many people likely died as a result of their bodies’ reaction to the fragment), so the ToS had to change their tactics and instead find 2 children that were most suitable to become Hermanubis’s vessels.

In the end, 2 children of the same age were chosen for this – Sethos and Cyno, with Sethos being a legitimate heir to the ToS and the adoptive grandson of Bamoun (so he was considered a part of the community at the temple) and Cyno being a child who was bought from his parents for a small sum of mora in order for the experiment to take place. After undergoing through the process of the first stage of the experiment, Sethos and Cyno had different reactions to the fragments, and Cyno’s reaction was remarked to be far more severe, and he ended up losing most of his memories of his early life and the time he spent at the temple, while Sethos only lost a portion of his memories.

In “Oathkeeper”, when talking to Tighnari, the Traveller and Paimon in the temple while discussing what deal they should accept with the ToS members, Cyno mentioned that as a child he suffered from constant headaches and fevers which were likely linked to the overbearing power of the Ba fragment, but despite that he had a strong will in his mind to keep going – which was likely a way of Hermanubis’s spirit to give him strength despite not being to communicate with him directly. Unfortunately as of now, not a lot is known about Sethos’s connection to Hermanubis or whether he attempted to connect with him at all like he did with Cyno (but I do hope that at some point Hoyo will expand on this, as well as Sethos’s life as a vessel prior to the Oathkeeper events because a lot has been left unclarified).

[mask131]

Last time, when I posted the vague translation of an article about Tanit, a lot of people were surprised and said they were unaware of the goddess' very existence... So for those who are interested into the Punic mythology, I will list here some points one can find literaly by going to the French Wikipedia article about the Punic religion. (I precise French Wikipedia because the French and English Wikipedias sometimes do not have the same information)

(Again this is not exact or definitive stuff, just a little bit of intro ; a "little taste for the beginning of the research")

The Punic religion/mythology is the one of the city of Carthage. You know? The Great Carthage, the famed rival and enemy of Rome, Hannibal and all that. It also extended to all the cities and regions which were under Carthage's influence and control. (So we are talking the coasts of Northern Africa, the south of Spain and Italy, and other adjacent areas)

The Punic mythology is derived from the Phoenician mythology, hence why several Phoenician gods can be found back among the Punic pantheon - but differences between the Phoenician and Punic religions are attested as early as Carthage's foundation.

Despite the conquest and destruction of Carthage by the Roman Empire, the religion still went on - it is attested as having been performed during the 3rd and 2nd centuries BCE, and some theorize the Punic gods might have stayed "alive" as late as the fourth century CE.

One of the big problems when studying the Punic religion is to differentiate historical facts from biased accusations, because the Roman authors were known to heavily caricature and demonize its rites. Notably the Romans regularly accused the people of Carthage of monstrous infant-sacrifices, and the archeological discoveries are quite ambiguous as to whether there were indeed sacrifices of children or not...

As I said before, the Punic gods were born when the Phoenician gods were brought over to Northern Africa and acquired there specific traits, while also interacting with other local religions. The Punic gods are dominated by the figure of the "superior god" that is Ba'al Hammon (or just Ba'al), and which is inherited from the Phoenicians - though the Punic Ba'al and the Phoenician Ba'al are quite different from each other. Astarte, Ba'al paredra (female companion) in the Oriental religions, is also present in the Punic religion but in a secondary and "weakened" way - she was rather replaced/fused with an emblematic goddess of the Punic religion, Tanit, the paredra of the Punic Baal (and even called the "face of Baal").

Astarte was preserved as a goddess of fecundity and war, though she seems to have been moved to a "secondary" situation. Other Phoenician gods preserved include Eshmun, god of medecine, and Melkart, a god symbolizing expansion and enrichment. Melkart was quite notably fused/equated with the Greek figure of the hero-god Herakles.

Most of the gods of the Punic pantheon (except for Baal, which oversaw and dominated them all) acted as "poliads", aka as city-gods. Tanit is considered to have been the goddess of the city of Carthage, while Melkart was the patron of the city of Gades (Cadiz), and Sid the tutelar deity of Sardinia (hence his alternate name "Sardus Pater").

Ba'al Hammon, the leader of the Punic gods, was born of the meeting between the Phoenician Baal, and the Egyptian Ammon, whose cult had spread to Lybia and almost most of Northern Africa (Ba'al Hammon notably had the same ram-association as Amon). This dual god, who symbolized fire and the sun, was later, in the Roman era, assimilated with Jupiter - and it is attested that the Punic Baal (Baal-Amon-Jupiter) still had a worship when Christianity started establishing itself.

The Punic religion had some "imported" cults too. Most notably, during the Greco-Punic wars, the Punic civilization adopted the worship of Demeter and Kore, as goddesses of fertility and harvest. This was due (according to Diodorus of Sicily) to the destruction of these goddesses' temple at Syracuse in 396 BCE: after this, all sorts of disasters plagued the army of Carthage, and so the city adopted the worship of the goddesses in an attempt at appeasing them. Some archeological clue also indicate that the cult of Isis might have existed at Carthage - but it is not firmly confirmed.

The Punic gods were usually invoked when an important historical event had to take place: for example before any military campaign, they were invoked, and if a sea-expedition was successful, the gods were thanked. The Punic religion was a state-business, since there was not cleric/secular division in the Carthagian lifestyle. The priests did not have any direct or open political power, but they had an enormous influence over society - and the members of the higher ranks of the religious hierarchy all belonged to the most powerful families of Carthage.

There was an entire "society-within-a-society" linked to the temples, since each temple had its own set of barbers, slaves and servants. Sacred prostitution was also common within many Punic temples: this prostitution involved both male and female prostitutes, and to be one could be either a definitive, lifetime state, or a temporary function. There was also a whole commerce of ex-votos the followers of the god could buy in buildings linked to the temples - in fact this commerce was most developped by the sea-shores and in coastal cities, where foreigners could bring donations and offerings or receive ex-votos. In fact, the offerings of the temples (usually meat and other resources for consumption) played a big part in the economical model of Carthage. There were specific "prices" and "tariffs" when it came to offerings: we have preserved several "price lists" indicating which type and amount of offering was needed depending on the request or demand. Could be sacrificed vegetables, food, objects, but also small and big animals (usually birds for "small" and cows for "big"). The offering was shared between the priest, the offerer and the god, and then a commemorative stone was set.

A big debate point is the tophet of Carthage, the sacred area dedicated to Tanit and Baal. The thing is we have very little clues and knowledge about this area, outside of vague and repetitive texts found on the ex-votos, thanking "Tanit Pene Baal and Lord Ba'al Hammon". The problem is that some Roman writers and historians (but not all - which adds oil to the fire) said the child-sacrifices took place within this area, identifying these rituals to the sacrifices of Moloch. Some child bones were found in urns, but given no violent cause of death could be found, it is unknown if this indeed was a place of child-sacrifices, or a necropolis for dead children.

It is established that, in the Punic religion, there was a difference between the state-religion, dominated by Carthage, and a folk-religion expressed through the amulets and the talismans protecting against demons and diseases. The folk-religion was heavily influenced by the Egyptian mythology: the Egyptian god Bes was a very popular folk-god of the Punic civilization, charged with protecting both the living and the dead.

We also know a few more details of religious practices, though they stay obscure... For example we know there was a worship of the ancestors within the houses of Carthage, but we don't know how, why, when. Similarly we know the Punic civilization forbade the eating of pork - a diet restriction still efficient by the early 4th century... But why, we don't know. We also do know the Punics seemed to have a belief in life after death, because even though the funeral rites involved incineration, there were mortuary chambers decorated like a house of the living, filled with offerings of food and drinks, and perfumed before being sealed. The position of the corpse was sometimes similar to the "Oriental" rites inherited from the Phoenicians, but other times influenced by the funeral practices of the Berbers (which were one of the population with influential interactions with the Punic civilization).

Numerous elements of modern-day Northern African/Muslim cultures were directly inherited from the Punic religion. For example, the khamsa amulet is widely recognized as being a leftover of the Punic amulets ; similarly, modern-day Tunisia regularly uses the "Symbol of Tanit" (it is used within the cinematographic prize of the "Gold Tanit"). The Algerian and Tunisian expression "Baali agriculture" to designate a non-irrigated agriculture is explained as a reference to the Punic Baal, the same way the Tunisian ritual of the Umuk Tangu/Ommek Tannu (Oumouk Tangou, Ommek Tannou, "Mother Tannou/Tangou"), a rain-invocation for periods of droughts, is a survival of the goddess Tanit (of whom Tangu/Tannu are alternate names). Some go as far as to theorize that the "star and the crescent", symbol of the Muslim religion ever since the Ottoman empire popularized it, might have been influenced by the Punic religious symbols...

[witchcraftingboop]

Hi! May I ask which are some good super starter or basic grimoires? I tried Agrippa and just...it didn't go in...i have the Picatrix but I honestly think I'll just get the same result, it's way above my head. Is there anything simple i might "get" or should I honestly just accept it's not for me and move on? Thank you!

Hey, so I have this post right here that goes over why no grimoire that's worth learning from with the intent to practice it through is going to be classified as beginner/starter/etc. So I'm not going to rehash that part.

As for "getting" Agrippa, I think it's important to remember that it's an encyclopedia. As such, when you're beginning to explore grimoires, it's best to use it as a reference book. Can you use Agrippa as the foundation of your own practice? Yes, but unless you're already familiar with occult concepts and topics, it might require far more than one or two surface readings to fully digest what it's talking about.

So since it sounds like you're newer to grimtrad circles, I have a few books that I think might help build that foundation without all the dense walls of text and jargon to read through (though please bear in mind that I struggle to remember what is/not common knowledge even in mundane matters, so if some of these are a bit trickier to navigate, feel free to blame it on my incompetence):

A Deed Without A Name by Lee Morgan (staple)

Conjuring Spirits by Miller (Miller's work is v good)

The Black Arts by Richard Cavendish (read critically, don't accept everything blindly)

The Hermetic & Alchemical Writings of Paracelsus - Waite & Paracelsus (denser)

Magic, Witchcraft, and Ghosts in Greek and Roman Worlds

Elucidation of Necromancy

Celestial Intelligences by Kaminsky (denser)

Wortkunning

Some books that I worked with or through that seem easy enough to bring to real life application, with the right dedication and mindset:

The 6th & 7th Books of Moses

The Sworn Book of Honorius

The Book of Oberon

Seven Spheres & Gateways: Through Stone and Circle (1 book) & Through Light and Shadow (different book) - best combo, anyone can practice these really

Keys of Solomon & Grimorium Verum & Secrets of Solomon - solid combo

The Goetia of Dr. Rudd (a particular fave)

The Complete Mystical Records of Dr. John Dee (learn a bit of Latin first or have a solid translator on deck)

Greek Magical Papyri (PGM) & Greek and Egyptian Magical Formularies & Techniques of Greco-Egyptian Magic - best combo, imo

Orphic Hymns Grimoire & The Hekatæon & Tartaros - another good combo

The 32 Keys

Azoëtia & The Black Dragon series

Book of St. Cyprian

I think it's worth mentioning that reading more is a great way to broaden your awareness of occult concepts and topics. If you look at how things are considered across different dedicated areas of study, then you're more likely to understand the foundations of said thing. One perspective is very limiting. It's better to seek out multiple. By reading from the first list, which should give a pretty solid introductory to broad concepts, and then sifting through the grimoires mentioned, you should be able - through applying yourself properly to the task - gain an understanding of how these things may function/interact in a living tradition, and then through applying them yourself gain the practical knowledge of how they actually are.

And as a closing note: I would personally recommend leaving behind the idea that you're supposed to "get" occult books. You study from them, you learn what you can from them, and through implementing what they speak of and experimenting with what interests you, you acquire that knowledge plus your own discovered knowledge and heightened awareness. In this way, you'll come to realize why I refer to my engagement with the occult as a study and practice.

Of course, if none of this was helpful, you can feel free to disregard my input here as the ramblings of a twenty-something nobody. Have a good one!

[headlessmage]

Had a very intense experience with a stellar presence (Algol) last night and I’m still trying to figure out if it was positive or negative. Putting it under a read more since it’s sort of long and just a lot.

I’ve been doing what I can to research planetary and stellar objects and have slowly been reaching out to a few of them (either in their Egyptian or Greco-Roman forms). One of these objects includes the star, Algol.

While researching her, I decided not to reach out or interact until I was prepared, as I can tell that it does have the potential to go sideways (and I am typically a cautious person when it comes to temperamental beings).

However, while I was lying in bed last night trying to sleep, she appeared. Her presence was very oppressive and suffocating, and I could see her eye shining through my blinds with a reddish-purple glow. It almost seemed like an ancient depiction of an eye, only showing the pupil and the surrounding whites of the eye as a ball.

I instinctively apologized for bothering her and expressed my intention to work with her in the future with her approval.

I did not get a response, but felt a change in the energy. It concentrated into a thin sliver, and pushed against the back of my neck before swinging forward (and I suppose energetically cutting off my head). She disappeared right afterwards, leaving me with a tightness in my throat and an aching in my head and chest.

This morning, I’ve realized that with her energetic severing, she destroyed some anxiety and fear I had been struggling to deal with. I suppose that would be a positive if it didn’t feel like there’s an emptiness in my chest now, sort of a void.

[echoes-of-kemet]

First and foremost, this sideblog is devoted to a heavily WIP creative project. As a sideblog, I interact partially from my main blog- although Tungle did thankfully add the ability to comment/reply from sideblogs on mobile recently.

Echoes of Kemet is a project that aims to combine the myriad of different and conflicting tellings of Egyptian mythology into a single, more coherent fictional timeline which coincides with the civilization’s historical one. Additionally, I want to explore the pantheon with the same sort of modern intrigue and evolution that’s so often given to the Greco-Roman mythos, giving life to the deities- while remaining as true as possible to the source texts and the culture they came from. In addition to the composite myths, I will also be writing some original tales to fill in *some* blanks and add more depth to the characters.

As I go through and do my research, I will undoubtedly post references and facts for both myself and anyone reading to look back on. They will be clearly labeled as to what is historical/traditional, and what is EoK specific. There’ll also be reblogs of “flavor” for the project- be that serious musings or shitposts.

You’re welcome to send asks, be they to me (Kirby, the person behind this) or the characters themselves. Please do not reblog any of my original posts as religious.

Deity List ☥ Myth Directory ☥ References/Canon Notes Masterpost

[jeevaschrist]

i was wondering if I could get a black butler matchup/ship. I’m female, she/her, 20, bisexual as hell, INTJ, and a new media artist (still in college tho). I’m 5’1 and a half with an average build, brown eyes, and black wavy hair till my shoulders. I wear clear cat eye glasses. i honestly don’t know how to describe my style cause it changes constantly depending on the vibe I’m feeling. I do however live for accessories whether it be butterfly hair clips, elf ear cuffs, arms stacked with bracelets, or rings on every finger. As for personality I am a MASSIVE introvert except for with my best friends where my unhinged side comes out. Despite being an introvert I’m very comfortable with leadership. I’m also quite thoughtful and contemplative just letting my mind drift off to wherever. I’m far from clingy and prefer to keep my own space even if I know you well. I can be a bit stubborn, and opinionated at times however. I’m a huge planner and hate when things go off schedule or when things are chosen abruptly. I also find it hard to start new things, but once I’m in the groove its fine. As mentioned before, I am studying new media art. I love game design, 3d modeling, interactive design, visual effects etc. I also love art history, especially Pre Raphaelite Arthurian paintings, Italian renaissance architecture, Egyptian manuscripts and Greco Roman sculpture. For hobbies I love reading, gaming, binge watching, digital illustration, dancing, rollerblading, baking cookies, and listening to video essays/podcasts/audiobooks. My favorite genres are detective, classics, fantasy, folklore, mythology and lore from any of my fandoms. I love listening to music in a multitude of languages as well whether Arabic, Italian, French, Hindi and much more. Think that’s it! Thank you!

hi xx

i think i have a match for you but it might not be what ur thinking

i happen to ship you with william t spears :p

this man might be kind of (very) serious and strict but in my fantastical mind he's that on the surface but there's the sliiiiightest but of a softie down below. just a tad. i really think he would take a high interest in your interests and i think he'd also like learn about them in his off time or your off time from each other and he'd come to you super matter-of-factual like "by the way you didn't know this but-" type thing. he'd act like he doesn't give two shits abt things you're doing but in reality the reason he tags along and learns about shit is because he wants you to be happy and safe so he has to be there. your stubborn/opinionated side would also entertain him, but the fact that you don't get as out of hand as grell (at least i think) means he doesn't think of you as a chore and more as a companion when you first meet, then slowly but surely evolves into a relationship later down the road. your style would however confuse him but i also think he'd be down for tolerating it, even maybe asking about it. he isn't the type to necessarily hype you up or anything however don't be surprised if you happen to find a new pair of glasses or ear cuffs laying on your bed~

[aboutanancientenquiry]

Plate with Sphinx from the Greek colony and emporion of Naucratis in Egypt. 6th century BCE. Herodotus was the first author who described in his Histories the creation and development of Naucratis under the Pharaohs of the Saite dynasty.

Source: https://www.francetvinfo.fr/monde/naucratis-cite-antique-redecouverte-dans-le-delta-du-nil_1717439.html

[ancienttalisman]

The Enigmatic Origins of Ancient Magic and Beliefs

The origins of ancient magic and beliefs are shrouded in the mists of time, making it a fascinating and intricate subject of study. These practices, which have influenced countless civilizations throughout history, are a testament to the human drive to understand and interact with the unseen forces that shape our world. In this article, we delve into the enigmatic beginnings of ancient magic and beliefs, tracing their evolution across different cultures and epochs. Check their site to know more details ฝันเห็นช้างตกมันอาละวาด.

Prehistoric Roots

Magic and beliefs can be traced back to the earliest human societies, with evidence of shamanistic practices and animistic beliefs dating back tens of thousands of years. In these prehistoric cultures, shamans served as intermediaries between the physical and spiritual realms, harnessing the power of natural elements and spirits to heal, protect, and predict the future. These practices laid the foundation for the development of more elaborate belief systems and magical traditions.

Mesopotamia: Cradle of Civilization

The ancient Mesopotamian civilizations, including Sumer, Babylon, and Assyria, played a crucial role in shaping magical and religious practices. Cuneiform texts from these societies reveal incantations, rituals, and magical spells that aimed to control various aspects of life, from health to agriculture. The concept of gods and goddesses, with their unique powers and domains, further influenced the magical beliefs of these early civilizations.

Egyptian Mysticism

Ancient Egypt is renowned for its rich tradition of mysticism, magic, and belief in the afterlife. The Egyptian Book of the Dead, a collection of spells and rituals, guided the deceased through the perilous journey to the afterlife. Magic was integral to their religious practices, and priests held a significant role in performing rituals to ensure harmony between the physical and spiritual worlds.

Greco-Roman Syncretism

The Hellenistic period witnessed a fusion of Greek and Egyptian magical traditions, creating a syncretic system known as Hermeticism. The Hermetic writings, attributed to Hermes Trismegistus, encompassed a wide range of esoteric knowledge, including alchemy, astrology, and theurgy. The influence of these writings extended into the Roman Empire and persisted through the Middle Ages.

Ancient China

In ancient China, Daoist and Confucian beliefs incorporated magical practices such as divination, exorcism, and alchemy. These practices aimed to achieve balance and harmony with the Dao, the fundamental principle that underlies the universe. Chinese emperors sought guidance from oracles and divination techniques to make important decisions.

The Mysteries of Mesoamerica

The Maya, Aztec, and Inca civilizations of Mesoamerica developed complex belief systems that intertwined magic, religion, and astrology. Rituals involving blood sacrifice, celestial observations, and communication with the spirit world were fundamental aspects of their cultures. The knowledge of these civilizations, especially the Maya, continues to baffle researchers, revealing a deep connection between ancient magic and the understanding of the cosmos.

The Middle Ages: Alchemy and the Occult

During the Middle Ages, magic and beliefs took on new dimensions in Europe. Alchemy, the precursor to modern chemistry, aimed to transform base metals into gold and discover the elixir of life. The study of the occult sciences, including astrology, numerology, and the Kabbalah, became prevalent among scholars and mystics.

Conclusion

The origins of ancient magic and beliefs are a testament to humanity's enduring quest to comprehend and harness the mystical forces that shape our world. From the shamanic practices of prehistoric societies to the syncretic traditions of Greco-Roman times and the mysticism of ancient China, these beliefs have left an indelible mark on the development of human culture. While many ancient magical practices have evolved into modern religions and scientific disciplines, they continue to captivate our imagination, providing a link to our enigmatic past and the timeless quest to unlock the secrets of the universe.

[armorabs]

So judging by how Neptune is the God of The Ocean, do you suppose the Entire Fish Folk of the Bikini Bottom are Roman/Hellenic Religious People?

Because judging by how their own World (Sea) is guided by their own God which is like how we Humans are guided by our own God himself (Yahweh).

I am Catholic, but really, is the Entire Greco-Roman Pantheon worship in the Bikini Bottom or is it only just Neptune/Poseidon?

honestly i don't think that the sea critters follow any religions that are 1:1 to real religions that have existed past or present - they do seem to have some form of religion, and it may be influenced by attributes of real religions but... just because a religion is influenced by another doesn't mean it is that same religion? the ancient romans, greeks and egyptian's heavily influenced each other's religions due to their shared history but their religions arent the same, single religion.

so honestly, the idea of bikini bottom residents following a real religion doesn't make sense to me because real religions are based on the social mores that cultures develop combined with the observations of the world around them. the observable world that a community developed under the sea would be vastly different from the observable world on the surface.

so while they do hold the underwater gods in high standing, i wouldn't say that any religions formed around them would be comparable to real world counterparts because it's a fictitious culture with a vastly different history to any that we know.

not to mention the fact bikini bottom's worldbuilding was influenced by the architecture styles of various polynesian and south asian cultures, so don't you think that such cultures would have had some kind of influence on the religious and cultural development of a setting based on their own cultures? in what capacity, i am unsure, but i don't think its rational to neatly categorize bikini bottom's culture as being completely 1:1 to anything we know.

that and also neptune, poseidon, any wives and any children they have are observable and intractable entities to them while for us whether any god exists or not he does not have a physical seen and known presence in our lives. we have no way of being absolutely 100% certain what god is like beyond personal belief and faith. so the fact neptune and poseidon can directly interact with their subjects means the influence they have over their religions and their dynamic with their subject would differ from counterparts that exist in our reality :P

[aeidemnemosyne]

Black History Month Special

"Aesop Narrates His Fables to the Handmaids of Xanthus" Roberto Fontana, 1876. Engraving by Gallieni.

Even if one has not heard of the name Aesop, they undoubtedly have come across The Tortoise and the Hare, The Boy who cried Wolf, or any other of the hundreds of fables attributed to the man. Yet besides these tales, very little is known about Aesop himself other than that he lived from about 620–564 BCE and was a slave. The only pseudo-biographical account that exists is The Aesop Romance, which has been called out for lacking any historical credit. One thing it did popularize was the depiction of Aesop as someone with dwarfism (perhaps not with the best intent. The Aesop Romance lists this among several unflattering characteristics).

Another discussion is that of Aesop's race. The general term for the African people in ancient times was "Αἰθίοψ" (Aithíops), which translated to "burnt-face"(noun) or "red-brown"(adjective) and was used for the people the Greeks encountered in northern Africa. Andromeda is a famous Ethiopian.

It has been argued that Aesop's name is a form of Aithiop that has altered over time. It is not unthinkable that the θ became an s-sound and the second ι was dropped. Another argument made by Richard Lobban in (recent) scholarship is that (Egyptian) animals play a very prominent role in the fables. Animals as subjects/actors in Greek myth and tales are a rarity, and more common in African folklore.

That Aesop is described as a slave by most accounts does not confirm his possible African identity. Slaves in ancient times were often prisoners of war and the like. Race would not make Aesop a slave by definition, but if he were one, being an Ethiopian would have made it likely that he was a storyteller/entertainer in the household (Snowden, 1970).

Referring to Aesop as Ethiopian/black started in the 13th century and continued till the present day. Though (as is frequently the case...) not without some grumbling.

The painting that the above image refers to won the first prize during its exhibition at the Fine Art Academy of Brera in Milan. A French critic at a Parisian showing noted: "Why is M. Fontana's Aesop, expounding with forceful comic gestures some sort of moral, apparently very agreeable to the young women stretched limply among the oleanders, black as an Ethiopian? Perhaps M. Fontana knows more about Aesop than we do, which would not be difficult."

And, yes, while there is no indisputable evidence that Aesop had been "black as an Ethiopian", there also is no evidence of him having been white either. A white default is questionable in modern times, but this is equally so when one talks about Ancient Mediterranean and the frequent interactions between the peoples surrounding it.

Recommended reading: Lobban, Richard A. “Was Aesop a Nubian Kummaji (Folkteller)?” Northeast African Studies 9, no. 1 (2002): 11–31. http://www.jstor.org/stable/41931299. Snowden, Frank M. Blacks In Antiquity: Ethiopians In the Greco-Roman Experience. Cambridge, Mass.: Harvard University Press, 1970. https://hdl-handle-net.proxy-ub.rug.nl/2027/heb31888.0001.001. Snowden was a prominent African-American classicist to whom we owe much of the research into the lives of black people in ancient times. Like women, people of color and other minorities were (and still are) under-researched in scholarship.

[dariusblake]

OK, permit me to get incredibly Autistic about this because WoD lore is something I have lost HOURS of my life to...

Is Christian theology True (in the World of Darkness (but only for Vampires))?

Yes... And No.

So, uh, let's get the big one out of the way... The first Vampire in Vampire is Caine. As in Biblical-first-murderer Caine. Worst-older-brother-in-human-history Caine. Son of Adam, Son of Eve, you know the drill. Kills his brother, god curses him to walk the earth in darkness, drinking only blood and tasting only ashes.

So that is a big point in favour of the Bible being true. But, that also means the other Abrahamic faiths are ALSO correct. So Jews and Muslims are also correct, at least as far as Vampires are concerned. Still, the old testament is correct... Kinda.

See, as OP points out, this isn't true for all of World of Darkness. Wraiths (ghosts) live in the Stygian bureaucracy, under the rule of GREEK FERRYMAN CHARON. So for them, the Greco-Roman theology is true. Garou (werewolves) live in a world governed by animistic spirits, governed by three gods governing the cycle of live death and rebirth, under an Earth-mother Overdeity named Gaia. Changeling (essentially fae?) are beings of Faerie Tales that bound their souls to mortal bodies when the gates of Paradise slammed shut in the face of a world that no longer believes. And Mummies? Yeah mummies are real. Actual honest to god Egyptians who are now immortal and want to stop a snake eating the Sun.

So yeah, not much Christians philosophy here. But this is where it gets interesting; this is all one world, and the lines are not clear cut. Lord knows nobody is staying in their mythology lane. They interact. And they have myths about each other too.

And as you peel back the layers you start to notice that what is initially presented as hard Truth... gets muddied really quickly.

Vampires are Caine's brood, cursed by the stain of murder that echos down his bloodlines... Or they are creatures created by the bloody man, an immortal spat out by the god of death and left forever changed...

Werewolves are Garou, Gaia's holy retribution on those who defiled nature... Or they are Lupines, the monstrous spawn of Lilith when she lay with wolves after fleeing Eden.

So which is true? All of it and None.

Reality in World of Darkness is defined by perception. Mages (yes wizards and will-workers are real) call this concensus reality, or simply the Concensus. Why is the world round? Because someone convinced enough people the world isn't flat and reality asserted itself, conforming to the new paradigm imposed upon it. Sure gravity pulls all matter toward center mass so, in the end, all things are crushed into a sphere, but that is the universe adjusting itself to fit a world where reality is consistent with the new truth that earth is a globe.

What does this mean for Vampires? Well, it means that Caine, first born son, IS their progenitor... And also never existed until people believed. And also totally always was real.

The thing to remember is that ALL the factions within World of Darkness have a way to access true information about the past... But all of them break down. Vampires memories and Changeling recollection of past lives only goes back so far.

"Christianity is true but only for vampires" is one of the wildest implications of World Of Darkness lore and I think it's not talked about enough.