#grandsportszonkfish

[darkwing-ramblings]

Various wikis call out wizarding Europe as where the use of wands as spellcasting focusses originated in-universe and led to it developing as a doctrine so it pretty much all tracks and wizarding britain has potions still where wands aren't strictly necessary often so ritualised elements stick around regardless because they're just dead useful for storage in ways instantaneous wand spells simply aren't and permanently enchanted items aren't presented as commonplace to meddle with and create (also per Luna Lovegood's mother's fate messing with experimental magic can be fatal).

The use of wands then leading to them functioning as a crutch that they're all so used to casting though they essentially can't without it also neat- particularly paired with wandlore where a caster bonds to their wand and opinions transfer across such as who can borrow it more easily.

Wands being made from magic trees and not any old trees also gives them an odd necrobotany potential- the cutting of trees given an odd magic half life where they're note quite dead but not quite alive. Planting a wand resulting in a chimeric mix of the wandcore and wandwood species is also an area rife for exploration. Weeping willows where the leaves hang from oddly white fronds(?, whatever the leaves all hang off that dangle are called) and the guard hairs on the leaves are strangely silken like unicorn hair for instances. Or say a holly bush whose berries are a distinctly vibrant shade of almost glowing orange-red and the sharp spikes on the leaves are crookedly firm like miniature beak hooks and if burned down it simply grows anew without the roots suffering any harm.

Whilst not exactly explored in the books, later expansions of somewhat shoddy worldbuilding consideration wise have interesting titbits about the magic in Harry Potter. Uagadou for instance using wands only some of the time as tools and more direct words and hand gestures to focus spells cast is fun.

@iamnmbr3 linguistic drift certainly holds weight for correct Latin dropping off, given it it intent and meaning as well as common understanding that mainly forms spells, in a population where it's hardly the first language particularly thus a group the dropped or mispronounced as things changed incantations went!

One thing that has always bothered me about the magical system in HP is how much it... doesn’t exist? No one questions anything, there’s almost no theoretical exploration, and Hermione Granger (someone I’ve always found to be of average intelligence at best) is the brightest witch of her age.

Some characters seem to be inexplicably more powerful, but I wonder if it isn’t simply a matter of discipline and will-power.

What are your thoughts on magic? We never really see what light vs. dark entails, so fanfic authors tend to make it up as they go along, but do you have any head-canons about how magic works in HP?

I mean, to be fair, it wasn’t really the point of JKR’s series. She just wanted to write about a kid going to a magic boarding school in Scotland with this quirky witch aesthetic. 

No need for her to placate us uber nerds who demand a sensible explanation to the minutia of her magical system. 

Right, but yes, it clearly bothers me too. No one questions anything, there’s no understanding of why wands and spells even work, or why it has to be in this weird pseudo-Latin. No one even bothers to learn Latin, for that matter, and you think they would given the damn spells. 

Hermione Granger is the brightest witch of her age given that “her age” is either around 30 people (the amount of people in her year) or else around 300 (the population of Hogwarts at a given time) which is a pitiful amount. She also is an extremely hard worker and actually reads her textbooks, sadly I think this gets you ahead of 95% of the population.

Part of the reason I think the Wizarding World thinks like this is that they’re this incredibly tiny, cut off, insular society. Generally, when you have a small society cut off like that you tend to lose innovation or even understanding of technology you have.

But that’s not what you asked. Right.

Personally, I think there is no light and dark magic. Magic is just this part of the natural universe that muggles, for whatever reason, are not able to directly access. It’s neither good nor bad, it just is. For that matter, I don’t think spells themselves really exist, or rather, they’re not what magic really is in its purest form but instead a way that humans can easily access and control magic to perform a certain task. Kind of a glorified API if you will. 

So, dark magic and light magic are instead arbitrary labels that wizards apply to their own tool box based on the functions of that tool. If you have a tool that is only designed for/can be used for the murder and torture of sentient beings: well, that’s bad, we’ll call that dark. That said, do I think the spells themselves are inherently evil? No. It’s like if you open up your tool box, pick out a sledgehammer, and go, “This, my child, is an instrument of pure evil and you must never touch it.” Well, that’s a bad comparison, it’d be like taking a handgun out of your tool box and saying “this is a dark weapon”. Now, this gets into a debate I don’t want to get into, but to me dark spells are a lot like handguns (they’re designed for only one purpose and there’s no squirming your way out of what that purpose is).

Now, I think wizards have forgotten this (mostly because they don’t understand what spells or magic is), and so they get very hung up on the labels of spells or even just your odd genetic trait (i.e. parseltongue). So, we have these weird moments where someone uses, say, the severing charm to cut somebody open in the middle of the street. And it’s less bad than if they had used the killing curse to kill them painlessly and easily, because the severing charm’s not dark magic. 

It’s like... If someone were to walk out and bash someone over the head with a sledgehammer until it kills them it’s less evil than if they shot them in the head with a handgun.

Wizards seem to miss the point of this. 

As for what magic is, I believe it’s... direct energy that wizards are able to access in a way that muggles (thus far) cannot. What do I mean by thus far? Well, look at electricity. In ye olden days, I’m sure that if you asked a wizard they would say that making artificial light without flame is a property solely done by magic and muggles are not capable of it. Well, muggles then did it, and suddenly the definition and parameters of magic change. Wizards are kind of like chess grand masters who suddenly lose to your AI du jour, who say that it doesn’t count because the AI didn’t really do it like a human would. It’s not real intelligence.

I don’t believe people have magic in and of themselves, any more than anyone else does at any rate, because we see too little differences between powerful and mediocre wizards. You’re either a squib or you’re not, there doesn’t really seem to be a spectrum, and those who struggle with spells appear to do so for other reasons (Neville has severe confidence issues and is traumatized, Harry’s an idiot, etc.) 

I think what separates the great wizards from the rest is hard work, the ability to read books and learn from them, even an inkling of understanding of how spells really work and how to create them (and this makes you Voldemort level right here), and a good ear to be able to pronounce your ridiculous pseudo Latin.

The wand is a tool specifically designed so that, with repeatable easy to understand steps, you can perform a whole array of tasks and even use them as building blocks to develop a new spell (combine swishes, flicks, and various garbled sentences together in such a way and BAM new spell).

Your wand, in other words, is your API to direct and access untold amounts of energy from the universe.

But people have forgotten that so instead what you memorize are very specific function calls that will prove useful in your daily life.

As for the wand and spells themselves, well, here’s my hokey ridiculous theory on how that came about. A long time ago, a brilliant foreigner enters the Roman Empire with a revolutionary idea that puts him on the level of Einstein/Newton/Feynman Name Your Stupidly Brilliant Physicist. He says, hey, how about instead of doing these time consuming magical rituals we develop a tool that, in a matter of seconds, allows us to perform truly complicated and powerful magic any time we want. No more relying on having the right ingredients about, virgin sacrifices, the full moon, etc.

Everyone probably laughs at him, but then he goes off and designs a rudimentary wand, and through probably some uber ritual that was dangerous as hell implements this system by which by flicking your wand a certain way and saying basic commands like “levitate”, “repair”, etc. you can perform these tasks.

Only, the guy’s foreign and Good Will Hunting (no formal education in the empire), so he doesn’t actually speak Latin. So what you have instead is this weird half-Latin like, “Leviupwards Fly”, “Repair-o”, etc. 

It sounds dumb as hell, but goddammit it works, and more it gives Roman wizards an unheard of advantage against their enemy wizards who are all stuck doing these stupid rituals. They suddenly have a vast military might, so long as they use these wands and spells this guy came up with.

Everybody who’s anybody, who wants to win a fight, is now using wands. Wandcraft becomes a huge deal and people specialize in fine tuning these things exactly so as to get the maximum efficiency for a particular user.

And they probably go up to our guy and say, “Hey, buddy, can you make this in actual Latin? I can barely remember what it is I’m supposed to say to get this to work” and after the hours, and hours, and hours he spent making this thing that nobody helped him with he goes, “DO IT YOURSELF, BITCH”. And they never do because they’re too damn lazy/have no idea how he actually did it and any attempt to recreate it ends up with something that’s pitiful and doesn’t work. 

So, they’re all stuck with it, and thousands of years later they forget this guy even existed and while there’s a recognition that not all magic has to be performed by wands there’s just this feeling that the wand is the magic. And so no one will ever come up with an English/French/Whatever version where when you say “Up” the thing goes up. 

And that’s “The History of Magic” as brought to you by The Carnivorous Muffin.

[thecarnivorousmuffinmeta]

I don’t understand how ever muggleborn is so easily convinced to abandon everything they know in favor of the wizarding world. Sure, magic is super cool, especially to your average eleven year old, but I wouldn’t think so many could ever just sacrifice their education (forsaking science, math, literature, history, and literally every other interest field)

That’s not even mentioning all the other amazing things that exist in the muggle world and not the wizarding one.

Is this just faulty Rowling logic?

I think they're eleven. This strange, fantastic, person comes into their lives and shows them this awesome ability. Oh my god, wow! Who would say no to that? Most eleven-year-olds are not thinking about their education, probably don't realize that Hogwarts doesn't teach these things at all, and aren't going to say no to being a wizard.

More, even if they're uncertain, you have a couple of things happening. One, they really do have to go to this school to be able to learn how to control their ability. If they hesitate, McGonagall or your representative du jour is going to point this out. You can say no, technically, but you may blow up your parents.

That's going to be a deciding factor for a lot of people.

Otherwise, I suspect those who have parents who are especially wary are more often than not made to agree by magical means by parties who know better. Even if the kid says they're not sure, suddenly they find their parents all but throwing them at Hogwarts and telling them to do their best.

The kid, in other words, doesn't have much of a choice and very likely doesn't realize it.

[theoriginalcarnivorousmuffin]

I’ve read a lot of fanfiction (a LOT) and I’ve noticed that while there are about a million variations of Harry (some of whom being utterly unrecognizable) Tom Riddle/Voldemort remains largely the same, basically just different levels of suave. Why do you think that is?

Two things.

Harry Potter: the Fandom Bicycle

Most fanfiction writers don't really care about Harry as a character. Oh, they may claim to, but watch what they say about him. Some things legitimately never happened and a lot of it is "oh man, I wish Harry was like this in the books"

What they care about with Harry is his position in the story. He's the central protagonist, there's a great prophecy about him, and everything of import happens to him.

Our writer friends want the hero's journey/the events and places surrounding Harry to be the same, they just don't want Harry. Sometimes to extreme degrees at that.

So, we get all the variations of Harry in the world but the same position in the story where he's clearly the central figure. Harry is a means to give the writers the story they want with a character they want.

Tom Riddle: The Aesthetics

I'd argue that there are various variations of Tom Riddle but he does fall into a few select buckets of tropes.

This is because people like the tropes.

When Voldemort or Tom is a central figure in a story there's often a sense of aesthetics surrounding him. The author includes him because they want those tropes and aesthetics, if they didn't then they could easily gravitate to a different character.

Tom Riddle isn't central in the way that Harry is. Yes, he's our major villain, but if the writer doesn't care about him then he can be replaced or do most of his evil off screen and show up only at the end.

If Tom is a major point of the story, it means the author loves certain things about his character. Chances are, that author is very into the dark side/sith/volturi aesthetics of evil in black cloaks, sophisticated refinery, etc.

So, they feel no need to stray from the tropes because otherwise why bother with Tom at all?

[theoriginalcarnivorousmuffin]

Do you have any thoughts about Nicholas Flamel and his supposed immortality? I recognize that he is literally a name in canon and nothing else but people seem to have their own head-canons and opinions. Is there a reason he didn’t make your “powerful characters” list?

Mostly because a) we don’t see him b) he only seems to have done the one thing and never been able to repeat it c) while he seems smart he doesn’t necesarrily sound that powerful.

So, to be honest, I don’t know what’s up with the stone.

Canon never really goes into it and it’s such a clear MacGuffin that it never felt worth my time to really sit down and think about. It’s there when we need a lure for Voldemort to come to the castle and then it’s conveniently gone, that’s it.

In “Lily and the Art of Being Sisyphus”, which admittedly isn’t canon at all and an extremely different world with extremely different lore, my explanation is he didn’t make it which is why he could never repeat it. It was, instead, loaned to him by a divine power for some unknown amount of time.

And to be honest, this could still be a flavor of what happened. We know there’s possibly a divine figure of Death in the Harry Potter world, if we tilt our heads a bit, so perhaps Flamel did bargain with the gods. I’d believe that before believing he managed to subvert the rules of his own universe, only once, and no one was ever able to replicate it.

Something is up with that stone, I just don’t know what.

As for Flamel himself, seems like a smart dude, good at alchemy, taught Dumbledore alchemy. He could probably make the bottom tier of the list were I so inclined to put him there, maybe share a slot with Dumbledore.

I imagine him as primarily an academic, smart, but not particularly powerful. Remember part of the reason the Sorcerer’s Stone plot takes off is that he cannot protect the stone in his own home. This is against a severely weakened Tom Riddle and a severely weakened Quirrell at that.

Smart guy, not a powerful wizard.

[theoriginalcarnivorousmuffin]

Your fanfiction is often stunning because of how real it is despite fantastical elements - you deal with real emotion and discovery.

Do you have any recs of other fics that do this? Fanfiction that moves away from the campy in favor of realistic character development and darker themes (disappointment with life, existentialism, etc)? Apologies if it’s an unreasonable request.

Thanks!

Thank you!

Sorry for sitting on this so long but I had to give it a lot of thought (and recs take me a while to compile). And, at the end of the day, and far too much thinking...

Sorry, I have nothing for you.

I've come across some truly brilliant fanfiction across many fandoms. Definitely some that expertly handle character development and progression of the story. However, they usually don't have the same themes of disappointment in life, existentialism, or sheer weird.

In fact, nothing immediately comes to mind that hits all of those bullet points.

So the best I can do is wish you happy hunting.

[thecarnivorousmuffinmeta]

Aside from Tom and Lily (and some version of Harry himself), are there any HP characters that interest you? Genuinely compelling characters with a lot of fanfiction potential?

Me personally?

Sadly, no.

It's why, if you look at pretty much every fic I've written for Harry Potter, they're filled to the brim with OCs in hats and mustaches pretending they're not OCs. It's also why it took me so long to write any Harry Potter fics period, most of it just isn't compelling enough for me to want to write for it.

My profile is a very damning place.

However, not everyone is as ridiculous as I am. So I wouldn't take my opinions too seriously.

If you really want me to stretch then while I would never write something centering on Hermione, Dumbledore, Snape, Remus, or Fleur they do have enough going on with them to bring something to the story.

Snape and Hermione usually end up tertiary characters in my stuff for that reason. Dumbledore too depending on the story. Whereas Draco, well, he barely exists.

[theoriginalcarnivorousmuffin]

Are you a fan of Sondheim? I ask because Lily and occasionally October have a very Sondheim-y feel...specifically Into the Woods.

Also your Dune references are very much appreciated.

I am a huge fan of Sondheim.

A non-minority of my titles come directly from Sondheim songs or allusions to his musicals. I mean, one of my major stories is titled “Finishing the Hat”. So if you think you see Sondheim references, you probably do.

It would not be a lie to say a good deal of “Lily” as well as “October” are inspired by Into the Woods as well as Sunday in the Park with George.

And glad you enjoy my many many many Dune references. You can never have too much Dune.

[theoriginalcarnivorousmuffin]

When Uncle Death (or the Shinigami in Eru Lee’s case) refers to his time as God Emperor, is he referencing Ubik/October?

Yes and no.

So, what they’re all referencing is Dune by Frank Herbert. Because I will always reference Dune at every opportunity. There’s a lot of Dune in pretty much every major fic I write if you look for it.

That said, when I started October, it was a) after Lily b) I did mull over the possibility of making it a prequel or at least an offshoot to Lily. The trouble is that Azrael is a much younger character than Uncle Death who had not gone through the same experiences.

Obviously, Uncle Death didn’t do the time warp to Tom Riddle’s past, but he also did his God Emperor stint in a very different context (yes this has never been fully delved into yet but there are hints of it throughout “Lily”).

This is Azrael’s first time on that particular merry go round as well as his first time dealing with a lot of big life issues.

So, no, the characters are sort of related but not really.

[theoriginalcarnivorousmuffin]

Are you at all familiar with Lomonaaeren’s works? Specifically the Choices series? If so, what do you think about her characters?

Sorry, I have 0 familiarity with it.