#fuck clytemnestra

[backpackingspace]

Okay so with the line "the olive tree where we first met" we have two equal hilarious options.

When penelope was sassily like oh I'll marry you if you make a living bed out of this tree right here! Cue penelope stumbling over odysseus very very carefully digging up the tree "because how else is he going to get it to itacha we can't have a wedding bed out in the open in sparta duh"

Or

2. Penelope, knowing that Helen's suitors would soon be arriving to take over her home for a while. Snuck out and went on her own wacky shenanigan filled journey where she scoped out all the major players. Odysseus caught her spying in an olive tree. And when she got back she told Helen she had dibs on the cutie from itacha.

[idamante]

I swear to God "Greek mythology" TikTok never actually studies Greek mythology because why am I seeing the same takes everywhere.

[my-name-is-apollo]

My toxic trait is that I usually end up liking the characters that fandom/community excessively hate on and deny them the nuance and understanding that they readily give to other characters (who are often just as terrible lol). Sometimes I do it out of spite, sometimes because I feel sorry for them and sometimes because I start appreciating them genuinely.

[kexytimes]

quick little Clytemnestra sketch :)

[franzsiska]

penelope and clytemnestra are often seen as literary foils to each other, the ever-devoted loyal wife vs the cheating, scheming, disloyal one. but i think it's more interesting to see it in the way that these two women are so different because their husbands are so different from each other

[dyouknowwhatimean-archive]

dreams of clytemnestra by dacia maraini

[empty-blog-for-lurking]

It is honestly astounding Agamemnon lived long enough to be killed by his wife. Like this man has pissed off Odysses, Achilles, Artemis, and Apollo and i dont know how many more but there definately are there and the fact that he still lived long enough to get back home, without getting smote or curbstormed or get taken out be an elaborate scheme. Fates really wanted Clytemnestra to have that revenge

[tweedfrog]

I wonder if Clytemnestra fully checked out of motherhood and wifedom (is that a word?) after what happened with Iphigenia resulting in the very neglectful/abusive dynamic we see her share with Electra later on.

Because 1. What is the point of being good or caring as a mother if your children get sacrificed and 2. What is the point of being a good wife if your husband sacrifices your children and is unfaithful to you 3. NO ONE suggests he should be punished for these actions so if he does it it's fine if you do it too 4. The daughter you have left loves her father more because you treated her like shit

[streets-in-paradise]

Wait … I'm going to full ramble about this topic because now that someone made me think about it i believe it fucking deserves more attention.

Troy (2004) was written by the same guy who later worked in Game of Thrones. GOT, the piece of media that skyrocketed popularity of the " we brutalize women for the sake of gritty realism and give every fem character a 'rape made you stronger' arc " trend.

However, in Troy every woman whose canonical fate in the source material was being raped was saved from this. Even if the scene where Achilles saves Briseis it's a bit unconfortable to watch, those men don't get to rape her. Hector uses the power of self awareness to warn Andromache and get her ready to fight the fate she had on the original story. During the sacking of Troy, Briseis kills Agamemnon on a scene that clearly reverse mirrors what happened with Cassandra and the lesser Ajax.

This movie had few female characters, but the few it kept they respected. Despite being older than GOT, it treated its lead ladies with kindness.

I freaking love Troy and you all can suck my left one.

[alexandrarosa]

Who’s the worst character in the Ancient Greek literature?

10. You

9. Can’t

8. Choose

7. The worst one

6. They are all

5. Nuanced

4. And complicated

3. They face difficulties

2. And have to make hard choices

1. F***ing Agamemnon

[sarah-sandwich]

Rules: Answer and tag 9 people you want to get to know better and/or catch up with.

Thanks for tagging me @monaisme!

Favorite color: green 🍏🌿🌵

Last song listened to: Our Love from Arcane and now Take a Chance on Me by ABBA is playing 🌈

Currently reading: oh boy. I've been hopping between books again. I'm about halfway through Lords and Ladies by Terry Pratchett and am a few chapters into Clytemnestra by Costanza Casati, but I've been craving (spoiler alert!) a really good romance so I think I put both aside for a bit and see about getting into the bridgerton books

Currently watching: I'm like 4 episodes into dungeon meshi 👍 I am slow and inconsistent at TV shows though. Also about halfway through a movie I'm watching with my husband. I think it's called Army of Thieves? It's about a German safe cracker hobbyist that gets brought into a heist and everything in Europe is like normal modern Europe but in America there is a zombie?? apocalypse?? just happening????? as a background plot???????? I'm incredibly charmed.

Currently craving: a good!!! fucking!!!!!! romance!!!!!!! I'm so tired of attraction at first sight that never goes any deeper than wanting to bone but being anxious and awkward about it 😮‍💨 I need to FEEL it! Why this one?? SHOW ME!! He was a boy she was a girl just isn't enough for me Avril!!! Am accepting recs. Save me tumblrinas. Please.

Coffee or tea: A cup of coffee at the start of every day makes Sarah a happy girl. But it has to be my shitty store brand hazelnut stuff with an entire tablespoon of sugar and a splash of hazelnut creamer or it's just no good.

No pressure tagging: @myarmsaretoolong @fieldsofview @incognetomisquito

Side note my cat was attacking me while I tried to finish this. Photographic evidence:

[dootznbootz]

I literally will think of the stupidest shit and if it makes me giggle, it's "canon" now. It just is. Idk why I keep doing this.

[measureformeasure]

There’s not a book I want to read less

[girlfromenglishclass]

Why do you think of Clytemnestra? I find her one of the most misunderstood characters because of comparisons between her and Penelope. She is worse because she cheated on Agamemnon and then killed him. Not many people seem to find the point of avenging their daughter Agamemnon sacrificed valid. As if she were supposed to be fine with it because her child's death served a great purpose and allowed Greeks to win. He cheated on her multiple times, he even had the nerve to bring Cassandra to his own home and expect Clytemnestra to welcome her. And she is the villain in this story. I've always preferred her over Penelope.

Oh I'm so glad that someone asked about my favorite Greek heroine ever. I'm a big Penelope fan, but this is a pro-women's violence account first.

Plagiarizing a bit from my Goodreads review, but: it's important to note here that the questions of "Was Agamemnon right to kill Iphigenia," "Was Clytemnestra right to kill Agamemnon," and "Was Orestes right to kill Clytemnestra" are all ENTIRELY separate questions. Each has its own considerations. Even if you concede that Agamemnon had no choice but to sacrifice his daughter, that doesn't change what his wife must do. A father kills a daughter, so this demands an answer, even if it is justified. Thus, a wife kills her husband, and this demands an answer, even if it is justified. The whole idea here is that once blood has been spilt, you can't just resolve things peaceably.

And the text absolutely supports this reading via the chorus saying “the father who breaks heaven’s law ruins his children [...] Evil begets evil." Which is the EXACT SAME LOGIC that Orestes uses to kill Clytemnestra in his own revenge. HE'S allowed to take vengeance, but she isn't. God forbid women do anything.

Orestes points out "For taking human life there is a payment that has to be paid." But he doesn't apply this logic to Clytemnestra's own killing. The chorus does make this connection, after describing Iphigenia's killing, "He takes what he wants - and he pays for it" implying that the payment is fate. The chorus even justifies it, "Evil for evil is justice. And justice is holy." So the point seems obvious; it's okay to do an evil thing as long as it is in exchange for an evil thing. But this logic just doesn't get to excuse Clytemnestra?? If she was wrong, so was everyone else.

Clytemnestra calls out this hypocrisy directly. As though on trial, she defends with "Why didn't you judge Agamemnon? He murdered his own daughter, my daughter [...] This man here was the criminal to be punished" implying that her actions are justified by the same logic as Orestes, the same logic as the chorus, evil for evil.

So to summarize, either everyone in this play is justified, or none of them are - because they’re all using the same excuse. And Aeschylus is not unconscious of this!! The play literally ends in a hung jury trial in which they can't decide who is justified.

History might have simplified Clytemnestra, but Aeschylus and the original audience saw her for the nuanced character she is.

[mai-marybel]

How do we feel about Clytemnestra and Agamemnon as childhood (or teenhood? Is that a word?) friends?

[floralbug]

My dad would tell me stories of greek mythology as a kid and a lot if it was the wonders of the heroes, and growing up is realizing the women in those stories are the real wonders because how the fuck did they put up with the bs they did