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jbuffyangel · 6 years

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Other than an Olicity baby and Maya being their daughter in FF, what would you like to see for Olicity in 7b and for them individually? Fingers crossed for a baby and Smoak Tech! It would be great to see Oliver being more honest and open with Felicity, including the deal with the Monitor, but you sound skeptical on that point. Do you think the "what is love without respect and trust?" discussion in the xo was to excuse this behavior or set it up for a change in the future? Tx!

It’s a good question Nonnie, but I have to be honest - I don’t really watch Arrow with a lot of expectations or a laundry list of things I want to see. Honestly, I feel like that’s setting myself up for disappointment if the list doesn’t get checked off ya know? I like to cook up theories about what’s going to happen based of what Arrow has shown us, but I don’t really come up many storylines on my own. I genuinely enjoy just receiving the Arrow writers’ vision and responding to it that way. It’s more of a passive approach I guess.

Sure! I would love a baby and I’ll be thrilled if we get one, but if we don’t that’s okay. William has really fulfilled the child storyline for me in a lot of ways, so I’m already pretty happy.

As far as Smoak Tech, my investment in that particular storyline has waned over the years. I know this probably makes me a traitor to my people, but I’d rather just see it up and running. I think the writers explored the creation of it a little bit in Season 5, but it felt kind of stagnant once they came up with a name and something to sell. I’m not really interested in seeing Felicity pitch to investors. I also don’t like that they involved Curtis so it’d be nice to see him disentangled.

Honestly, the Smoak Tech appearance in the flash forward made me really happy. I know Felicity creates her empire, it’s HER empire, and that’s mostly what I wanted. Hopefully, we get to see that empire flourish but at the end of the day the real meat and potatoes of this show is Team Arrow. I’m always more invested in Felicity being a focus there because it will always be the A storyline. If they can build Smoak Tech and fold it into Team Arrow similar to how Queen Consolidated and Palmer Tech were in Season 1-3, I’ll be thrilled. But again, if it doesn’t happen I doubt I’ll be changing the channel.

Am I expecting Oliver to tell Felicity about the deal he made with the Monitor right away? Eh. Not really. Every time I think Oliver is going be honest with Felicity he isn’t, so I’m going at this another way. Reverse psychology time!

I don’t think the “What’s love without respect and trust?” line was intended to excuse any behavior or future lies, but on the flip side I have to be realistic about the world Oliver and Felicity live in. Being a hero requires sacrifice and that’s who Oliver Queen is. This means Oliver will constantly be sacrificing his happy life with Felicity. This is the life they both chose, which is exactly what Felicity explained to William in 6x11.

There is no world where Felicity would be okay with Oliver going to jail for life. There is no world where Felicity would sign off on Oliver giving up his life for Barry and Kara (if that’s what he agreed to do). Ultimately, I think the realization Oliver and Felicity came to at the end of this prison arc was they will make sacrifices because they are heroes, but they won’t judge each other for it. Nor will they judge the choices they each make as a result of those sacrifices.

Let me put it another way - Oliver is going to do what he has to do and Felicity is going to do what she has to do. That’s what they signed up for. They will never belong only to each other as long as they are fighting for Star City and the world. There will always be some crisis that comes before their marriage and happiness. I think Oliver and Felicity have decided instead of arguing and resenting each other for the sacrifices they make they will simply love each other unconditionally through it.

I don’t blame Oliver for not picking up the cell phone and calling the wife while he negotiated in space with an all powerful Whathaveyou to make sure she was cool with him trading his life for the lives of Barry, Kara and the entire world. Sometimes Oliver just has to make the call and this was one of those times. What’s done is done. It wasn’t about disrespecting Felicity or not trusting her. It was about making a choice no regular person would make. That’s why Oliver is a hero. And nobody knows that better than his wife.

That’s not a free pass for Oliver to lie or make decisions without Felicity. I think he should tell her about the deal he made with the Monitor, I’m just not expecting it on my time table, but rather Oliver’s. If he tells her later rather than sooner I’ll disagree with his choice. But I’ll just add it to the laundry list of decisions Oliver has made over the course of this show that I’ve disagreed with.

Is it a lack of character growth? Is Oliver constantly making the same mistakes over and over again? Sure. That’s absolutely a fair lens to view it through. But we are moving along a spectrum here. Oliver’s lies are for increasingly selfless reasons, so that’s some progress I guess.

“Selfless reasons? Are you nuts Jen?” Probably, but a real big piece of this for me is intent. Oliver’s intent is always intensely and innately good. It’s very hard for me to stay angry with the guy who is willing to sacrifice his freedom to secure his teammates’ and wife’s freedom. It’s very hard for me not to forgive Oliver for hesitating to tell his wife he offered his life in exchange for Barry and Kara’s (if that’s what he did) because he offered his life in exchange! Here’s the kicker - when Oliver is making these types of decisions he’s doing all the things that made Felicity fall in love with him in the first place.

There is an exceptionally great scene in Grey’s Anatomy that explains what I’m talking about. Meredith has done something awful, but her intent was good. Still the consequences of her decision are pretty disastrous for Derek. I really encourage you to watch the scene because it drills to the marrow of what it means to be married. But my favorite exchange is always this:

Derek: I know you took her to protect her. I know you altered the trial for Adele and for Richard. You stood in front of a bullet for me. I know why you do all of it. It’s what I love about you.

Meredith: And what you hate about me.

Derek: Yeah.

Felicity has made many similar speeches about Oliver.

Oliver and Felicity loving each other even when they hate each other is the reality of the commitment they’ve made. The things we love most in our partners can also become the things we hate most. But marriage is also a lot about acceptance. Oliver and Felicity bring out the best in each other, they challenge each other to be better, but they also accept one another. There are simply aspects of Oliver Queen that are never going to change. He will always be the put-it-all-on-the-line-fall-on-the-sword-sacrifice-everything-for-everyone guy. And as maddening as this may be, Oliver is not always going to ask Felicity’s permission before he does it. But the flip is- Felicity is the same kind of hero. If she was put in the same position as Oliver she would make the same choice. And she has.

That’s one of the reasons I’ve sort of stopped applying real world expectations on Olicity’s marriage. I certainly expect my husband to discuss life altering decisions with me, but he’s also not responsible for saving the world. In many ways Olicity is just a regular couple living in an insane world. But they are also an extraordinary couple living in an insane world. That requires a different set of expectations, which I believe is the realization they both came to.

So, Oliver gets to sacrifice himself for the world and Felicity accepts it. But Oliver doesn’t get to put on his judgey pants over the person Felicity becomes while she’s dealing with the ramifications of all Oliver’s sacrifices. This is an unusual, out of this world, extraordinary compromise, but it is a compromise nonetheless. Can I relate to Oliver and Felicity entirely? No, but then again I’m not a hero.

What do Oliver and Felicity get from their extraordinary sacrifices? An extraordinary love.

#asks #olicity #olicity meta #arrow spoilers #crisis on infinite earths #spoiler theoretical #Anonymous

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meyhew · 5 years

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I can’t believe people are still in huff about the reactions to that fic. I see people who still make passive aggressive comments about “teenagers online feeling too entitled” and I’ve never been more irritated. The fic was gross and uncomfortable and teenagers pointed it out while some “adults” in this fandom threw tantrums and got personally offended. If they wanna defend nasty ass fics b/c they have the ~freedom~ to do so go ahead, but they can’t be mad if people tell them to choke.

they may have the freedom to do whatever they want but since it was turned into a legal debate for some time, i’ll say this: freedom of speech in the US protects you from government involvement. the government can’t tell you not to express yourself, but other citizens can. and even the government has set restrictions and exceptions for the freedom of speech lol it isnt an unlimited freedom to do whatever you want regardless of consequences

#i dont even know who wrote that damn fic bc i dont care to know #i moved on from it but clearly other people havent #anonymous #answered

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unsahikable · 7 years

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I'm curious: I have very little knowledge regarding America's free speech laws apart from what I've seen in tumblr. In my country freedom of expression is highly regarded, but in the course of your free speech, if you propagate hateful ideas against others, threaten violence on the community, or create any religious discrimination, you are immediately opening yourself to the consequences. Criticism is allowed, hate propaganda isnt. This isn't ideal, I know. Free speech, after all, is the right to have yourself heard. But the moment you try to convince others to spread violence, the moment you essentially become a danger to people around you, you must face the consequences. So it baffles me when I see some people saying "freedom of speech is important! Let the Nazis speak!" ???????? Do you need laws for you to understand how stupid it is to let someone propagate hate speech?? There is a fundamental difference between "this government sucks!!! Kick them out!!!" and "these people don't deserve to live!!!! Kick them out!!!" I don't understand. This is logical. This is simple. Hate begets hate. So what am I missing here?

#USA #I don't know and I'd like to understand #I'm also scared of the community here so fingers crossed

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inkskinned · 8 years

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freedom of speech isn’t freedom from consequence and i’ll say it until my blood runs dry. hate speech is also not covered under the first amendment. and again, a concept preschoolers understand: your words are not more important than the safety or comfort of another person.

yes. legally i can’t stop you from printing and screaming whatever you want. but legally you can’t stop me from being angry and responding to it. and if you expect others to just “not get offended” by what you say, you must also expect others not to take you seriously at all! listen. if you understand i can send a child into the hallway for calling another child names, you can wrap your head around the fact you don’t have the right to do and say whatever you want without somebody reacting. this isnt your world, it’s all of ours, and we’re allowed to ask you to leave the classroom. grow up, realize you actually might have done something bigoted - even by “accident” - and change yourself for the better.

and if you’re the type who just throws a hissy fit every time somebody points out you’re being a bully... congratulations. you’re acting like a four-year-old.

#sjw shit #freedom of speech #warm up?#spilled ink #idk it's like both personal rant and writing

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sightofsea · 7 years

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this is rly dumb and there is the HUGE chance im going to regret this but ok

basically when i was 15 i wrote an approx. 200k OC doctor who fanfiction featuring a kind of half self insert/half attempt to subvert mary sue comapnion stereotypes named jenna quigley. and ive been thinking about it more lately like the general storyline bc like. idk. n i figured i should write it out.

i should mention this is all 11th doctor era bc i was a huge fan at that time, and it takes place between that time he leaves amy n rory to when he does his farewell tour bc i wanted to try n add some canonical irony that ill get to later

so basically its all narrated from jenna pov as kind of stories she’s telling to the tardis database via recording. why, we don’t know yet. she;s. ok so in the plot she was from our universe n was an AVID fan of the show which like tacky i know but whatever. she starts out 15 and in basically my house and neighborhood (this fic started from a constant daydream i would have of going on adventures w the doctor bc i was a nerdy 15 yo so like. sue me) and there have been a disturbing amount of disappearances in the surrounding area that local police are stuck on. so everyones kinda afraid to go out into their own homes and at one point, jenna is doing something out in her backyard and actually witnesses one of the abductions, but is surprised to see the kidnapper looks like the silence, aka the television show shes been watching. she thinks shes going bonkers. her family leave her alone for the day to go to a thing for one of her siblings and she’s just kind of ruminating on this event when--lo and behold, an officer arrives at her door.

and jenna, she’s very skeptical about this guy. like, given recent events she doesnt trust her own eyes. and the guy is...off. like his badge n credentials, if she concentrates, looks like something else for a flash of a second, and for some reason the figure of him is kind of hazy whenever jenna tries to look directly at him. he is shown to have a quirky, friendly demeanor n jenna figures well, i gotta tell someone about what ive seen, so she invites him in. they have a brief chat n its obvious to the reader that this guy is someone VERY familiar (mostly due to my bad writing at the time) and jenna begins to explain what she saw and how its like this one show she watches, and this guy suddenly becomes very very interested in this before realizing he’s got it all pieced together and asks for jenna’s help in navigating the area to find what is, ultimately, a silence space ship.

jenna agrees and over time realizes this guy is most definitely connected to something in the whoniverse and originally believes he might be a time agent bc that seems more likely given their number as they travel to the ship. its also revealed that the officer has brought jenna along bc the key thing about what she saw is that she actually remembers the silence and can see past perception filters due to the qualities of alternate universe, slightly alternate brain chemistry and so on. its not exactly perfect--she can’t get through perception filters rly, especially good ones--but its enough to know something is wrong n remember certain things others from the dw universe might not be able to like the actual silence aliens themselves.

anyway they make their way to the ship, which has come through a massive tear in reality that the officer came through. in the fic lore i guess tears are seen as usually benign things meant to leak ideas of universes into other universes as a kind of waste disposal system, and as a side effect create inspiration in those who are close to them. this tear, though, became too big, kind of like a leaky pipe, and actual material was able to get through by keeping a frequency from both ends of the tear as a kind of safety rope. and to maintain their energy as a stranded ship the silence have been using humans as batteries. i put a lot of thought into this, i know.

SO once theyre in the ship the “”officer”” (we know who he is by now lets just face it) and jenna are captured n separated. jenna is held hostage and it is revealed she is a part of a second half of the “silence will fall when the question is asked” prophecy which goes “the unexpected shall follow the guided task” (i loved rhymes) which is further revealed to the be the following: change the timeline and destroy the doctor. and jenna, being jenna, is like “listen u guys i dont even know the guy so uh failed step one i guess”. she’s saved by the “”officer”” in the nick of time through work of faulty electrical work (like? i know its for style but the silence have all those lights on the floor n it is VERY dangerous) so the whole ship is blacked out n she hears the differently pitched speech patterns (”why do u sound all different” “they took my equipment nevermind lets go”) and after doing some work to reverse the frequency and basically make the ship implode back into its original universe they run back to jenna’s home in the dark, seeing as she was out for quite a bit. her family is conveniently not home yet n decided to hang out with some friends. and when she gets back n is finally in the light SURPRISE!!! turns out the officer was the doctor all along in disguise from the silence using a perception filter. 15 year old me was a literary genius.

n u might think hannah this is rly long is it done now and of course it isnt!! that was just the intro!! after the initial shock jenna kind of parses what era the doctor is from, which is pre-silencio but after finding out about it n in that 200 yr stretch that was never rly shown. and jenna’s like, a whole season ahead of him basically and knows all this stuff and is trying to engage with this guy she’s a huge fan of without like accidentally spilling the beans on his future. she sits him down to explain the whole tv show thing n lets him watch an episode while she goes to her room to pack like clothes n her laptop because its not every day the doctor just flies in and she’s 15 so shes like hellz yeah im gonna be a COMPANION not even THINKING of the consequences in terms of the multiverse, the prophecy and her family (she does leave a note but its self centered n kinda lame tbh just like be back whenever). afterwards she walks the doctor back to the tardis and is like so where we gonna go n the doctor looks at her like jenna you are a literal child im not taking you anywhere and jenna though some MASTERY of writing that was basically hey look over there! and doing it anyway sneaks into the tardis when the doctor isnt looking n becomes his stowaway.

for the next few weeks she just kind of chills in the tardis with this fear that the doctor will immediately bring her back home so might as well have fun and kinda sneaks around him and keeps couch hopping from room to room. the tardis does not like her one bit due to the whole different universe funky energies thing (and this was pre-clara and i really wanted to see a companion the tardis didnt like so) and has multiple conversations with it via the interface hologram which meant i could write cameos for classic companions and write the tardis as a character bc i was a nerd.

SO after weeks of casually avoiding the doctor eventually she gets caught by him and hes not happy about it so shes like well ok then send me home n then she gets the real kicker which is the tears all mended up. after the material was put back in place it went back to being benign n too small for anything to travel between. so jenna basically stuck in this foreign universe with a very slim chance of returning back to her old life and her family and friends and she mistakes the doctors anger at the situation for anger at her so shes like basically im all alone here oh god n has a crisis n has a dramatic run off into the bowels of the tardis hallways

eventually the doctor finds her and they bond over being kind of the last of their kind in a way and he takes a kind of fatherly role and is like well youre already here and im miserable on my own so why dont we two birds one stone it n just go on adventures for the time being and takes a kind of fatherly platonic role with jenna bc i was sick of seeing companions hook up with the doctor and was confused as to why they wanted to hook up with him (spoiler alert: huge lesbian)

so they set off on their adventures. the first one was about the doctor and jenna accidentally boarding a ship of genetically engineered soldiers called evos being shipped off to a galactic war and finding out some of them had rebelled and had been camping out in the ships underbelly. they had no mouths but were able to communicate via sign language n empath touch powers of transferable memories. the captain was a bitch who didnt see the evos as living things n eventually in a stand off either offered them a chance for the other, still podded evos to live and for them all to live a horrible life or have the podded evos be ejected into space in return for them to have a chance to fight for their freedom. the choice ended up coming down to jenna, somehow, i think, and she chose freedom and cost the lives of like 200 evos but were able to get the ones they were able to save (about, like, 100 i think) to safety and create their own civilization away from harm on a distant planet and their success and triumph to live their own lives i guess canceled out the fact that jenna played a part in the deaths of 200 beings. it was. i dont even know

the next “episode” after a brief interlude of less impactful adventures and discussing mortality was a sherlock crossover episode that im too embarrassed to go into detail about but did reveal jenna’s newly formed abandonment issues due to her stranded in a strange universe situation and the fact she had a self harm problem that, surprise, mirrored mine. her n the doctor went on some more adventures over the next few months that were mentioned in passing. it should be noted that this first “act” i guess takes place over a solid year

the next episode featured river song bc i was gay for her without knowing it and i had just learned about easter island in history class and i decided to expand on one of the adventures said in passing during the series to kind of root my fic in canon bc i was a smarmy bitch. it involved being perceived as gods and the silence and using the flesh as a means of luring villagers to be used as human batteries and also putting a percetion filter on the ship so what was actually a crater was perceived to be a mountain. through this episode we saw the doctor again facing his own mortality, river sitting jenna down after a series of events pieced together her abandonment issues n harm problem n being like you cant rely on the doctor for this alone trust me i know its fun but when it starts ending it wont be. jenna gets kidnapped again by the silence n is reproduced as flesh to try and steer the doctor n river away from saving the day but overcomes that impulse and eventually pulls herself out of it and helps save things.

this episode also imports an important plot device of misplacement, which i shouldve put in earlier if im honest. the basic idea of it, within the fic lore, was that the universe, multiverse, whatever had to compensate for temporal displacement all the time when choices were made, but when big things that would alter history happened--like a giant supposed mountain blowing up 200 years after it had already blew up--it had a fail safe to transport the object causing the harm to the exact place but in a different time where the event would have less of a temporal impact. theres also an important note here where the doctor doesnt recall jenna being with him on their first adventure together. both are setting up the larger plot.

after the deal with the kidnapping and the flesh and all their adventures the doctor becomes kind of protective of jenna because i mean the dude also has abandonment issues like lets be real. so he kind of tones down the danger in fear of jenna dying or getting hurt. i mean, its been a year and theyve kind of become these friends who snark at each other like a family would and its nice that jenna has this person she can trust because she watched the show and like, knows him and knows his tells and calls him out on his bullshit before he can even get started and feels a kind of responsibility for due to the prophecy she was given and the doctor has someone to talk to and someone he also doesnt have to hide from really because she already knows almost everything. theyve been equally protective of each other--jenna keeping the doctor in the dark about the prophecy about her and keeping mum on the fact that she knows he isnt going to die, and the doctor worrying about jenna’s safety and trying not to screw her up like he has past companions to kind of try to atone for his past mistakes and make it up to this girl whose life he kind of unintentionally ruined. ok honestly idk why im getting in depth but i spent. years on this fic you dont understand

so. after a while jenna just kind of calls the doctor out like come on lets at least go somewhere fun and end up spending christmas eve in new york in the forties and befriend this newly single mother and jenna fakes a REALLY BAD accent to get across that her n the doctor are related n poor to gain sympathy. they do all the things she wants like times square and macy’s, where surprise! she sees amy n rory n their son and just kind of like. guides them away from the doctor like guys. this aint ur guy. and it would fuck EVERYTHING up also hi i know your guys’s entire life story, cute kid, etc. they give jenna some advice dealing w the doctor and she tells them that she’ll try her best to make sure he doesnt like, go self hating n all that bullshit n they part ways. her n the doctor meet up again and throughout this whole first part jenna’s been noticing people following her? with like, these weird orange-y eyes. and she thinks like fuck ok this’ll ruin the adventure, maybe theyll leave but they end up starting to go after her and reveal themselves to be a species called the visicheck

after escaping and dumpster diving because the visicheck hunt based on scent, jenna and the doctor start heading towards the single mother’s place for refuge (she had seen their situation n offered a place to spend christmas eve) and on the cab ride over the doctor explains that the visicheck r these ancestors of the family of blood, and basically are lifeless specks that latch onto living things and possess them until they burn them out and move onto the next one. they consume what is the basic energy a thing needs to exist and be alive, and for different species there’s different levels. lets say a dw universe human is ur basic ten on the scale. because of different circumstances in different universes, jenna is basically a 120 on the scale. like, these things could possess her body and use it for centuries to wreck havoc with the kind of energy she holds. and jenna, thinking about the prophecy of changing the timeline and also not wanting to basically be the living dead is like yeah ok fuck this is bad.

they find some brief refuge in the single mothers apartment for a time and enjoy a lovely christmas eve dinner but eventually the visicheck catch up to them. the doctor escorts the single mother n her kid into a cab to get as far away as possible while jenna is just supposed to keep holed up in the apartment, but things arent so easy and they end up breaking in. she’s able to hit them over the head with a pan n kind of stave them off for a bit and heads for the roof, but is eventually backed into a circle. knowing the visichek can’t possess something that is dead and not wanting to potentially endanger the universe just to keep her life jenna jumps off the building in a dramatic fashion that i wrote to play with the carol of the bells because i thought it was cool, and you know what? it was. it really was.

and so jenna dies

at least for a bit

she wakes up in the tardis, rly confused because like, she died. like she knows she did. and the doctors not speaking n acting all broody and she finally gets the story out of him that after she died (posted as an anonymous person in the newspaper, i should note, and put in an unnamed grave to keep the whole “written in stone” thing in line) he kind of. went off on his own for a bit before rly hating himself for letting jenna die right in front of him and went back to catch and save her before she landed, therefore altering the events as it happened. and jenna is...not happy about this. like, one bit. because, in a twist of fate, because she is both living and dead the universe must compensate by going to misplacement, but jenna can’t fully complete the misplacement “”process”” i guess until she is in the exact location she is misplaced from, only different time and all, and in this case she’s in the tardis which almost always has its shields up, so she can’t even complete that bit. so, as explained, the universe will start the process over whenever the tardis decides to fly off again, and send jenna to a different time within the tardis’s general vicinity.

basically, she’s gonna be stuck hopping around the doctor’s timeline. like, all of it, until she finally meets up with the right doctor who knows her n has been past this point. which could take years for her. and, mind you, the task she was “assigned” in the prophecy was to change the timeline, and as a result destroy the doctor. so this is basically jenna’s worst nightmare, and she finally spills the beans about the prophecy in a fit of anger before trying to say goodbye and being whisked off

and this is where the angst stuff happens

basically, for the next year or so (when i rewrite in my head its two years, makes more sense) jenna is thrown around one end of the universe to the other, trying to stay out of the way of the doctor’s events while also trying to, you know, survive and eat and drink and sleep. she’s basically a homeless vagabond for most of it, and her abandonment issues and self harming kind of escalate. she begins leading a really lonely life, and grows this kind of love/hate relationship with the doctor where she really hopes to see him again but also grows bitter against him for putting him in this situation. she visits companions before their time with the doctor, like donna, by accident and stumbles through meeting them and trying to just keep going. in her loneliness she starts talking to a version of the doctor in her head, which starts taking more and more of a form to her before its a fully grown kind of hallucination she’s created out of loneliness (which was kind of based off of me being a lonely kid and having pretend conversations with characters to simulate human connection which is. sad. i know. really sad. its a lot).

for a time jenna is stuck with the doctor and martha during the months leading up to human nature/the family of blood, and inadvertently meets martha and gets a job at the school as a fellow maid through helping martha drag the doctor to the place. she figures its the only stability she’ll have for a while and since she was never shown in the show it isnt rly affecting the most important bits of the timeline, and resolves to stay as far away from john smith as she can and just live out her life until the events of the episodes start happening and she’ll vamoose. she adopts an accent to blend in and when she has free time finds the stashed away tardis, which initially does not recognize jenna as a companion until finding archived recordings from the future bc duh its a time machine, which brings the whole pov thing full circle, and interacts with the interface to get answers about her growing questions about the silence and her situation and learns about a device called the cage, which has been alluded to in previous “episodes” only by name, as a great machine created by the silence that is meant to basically make it so that anything inside of it would be erased for existence, past present and future, using energy form the cracks in the universe. this was still at a point in the actual series where we knew nothing so i just kind of went buckwild.

anyways

jenna ends up having to interact with the tenth doctor as john smith once, and kind of aims all of her bitterness towards her future self at him and realizes that isnt fair, apologizes, and has a cathartic moment of finally moving past a grudge with the wrong version of the doctor. eventually the events of the episodes start happening and she vamooses before getting sent off to god knows where again, yippee

eventually through the next year jenna kind of begins to rly lose hope. like, it’s been a year already, she doesn’t know if she can keep living like this. so she makes a deal with herself to wait out until the end of this second year of time travelling vagabonding before she decides to off herself to save herself and the universe the trouble.

she keeps going through the motions and actually stumbles upon a future, post-silencio doctor, with rory and amy in tow, and in a fit of like oh my god relief she kind of runs up to him and is like i found you, finally, holy shit n the doctor looks at her like im sorry but i dont...know you? like i genuinely dont know who you are. you might have ur timelines all switched up. and jenna knows this isnt true and freaks out and kind of just is like, theres like fifteen days until the deadline, all hope is lost, gonna just completely self destruct n cuts her hair and stops eating, but on the day of the actual deadline she keeps stalling as she zaps from place to place before finally deciding to end how it should end by jumping off a building n she has this heartfelt convo with this imaginary figure thats kept her company all this time

so she makes the journey up this apartment building in this basically abandoned future...chicago, i think? yeah. and you know, is about to do when whaddaya know, a familiar voice is calling out for her. she thinks its just the hallucination but eventually realizes that its actually the doctor, one that knows her, and they have this really heartfelt hug before she punches him square in the face

after the fact is a lot of secret keeping on jenna’s side. she doesnt want to be a burden and just kind of wants things to eventually get back to normal after a period of just resting finally and lies about her time being thrown around the doctors timeline, telling him it was only a few months instead of two years, and hiding the evidence of her self harm and other forms of self destruction to try and get things back to the way they were. the doctor can see through jenna’s bullshit though and over a month of just kind of chilling in the tardis and getting better she eventually tells him and after being pulled into an adventure with alien bees and a prison break and characters very much based off of the captor brothers from homestuck they kind of find their original rhythm

the next adventure was the one where i stopped writing mostly bc the plot absolutely sucked. it was a beach adventure episode, involving aliens and aliens who were mermaids and being stranded on a remote island. also, at the time i was going through a sexuality crisis and decided jenna was gonna go through it too and made her realize she was gay for one of the alien mermaids and totally made out with her. you can see how the plot was failing a bit, and the only thing i dont regret is the whole mermaid makeout thing really.

the rest of the series from that point on was supposed to go something like this: jenna has to go back to her old high school, except in the dw universe, and finds out she actually doesn’t exist in this universe??? which is weird. the doctor plays teacher and they live in the prop attic of the school investigating a counselor that literally feeds off of emotions until the students are a husk and die. there was going to be a filler where the doctor and jenna start the doctors farewell tour (it is revealed when they finally find each other at the end of the timeline jumping debacle that the doctor has like two years left until silencio happens, with like a hundred years passing between new york n finding jenna) and the doctors mortality is discussed and jenna begins to wonder what happens to her since she isnt at the event or anything going forward, and begins to worry about the prophecy again.

the finale of jenna’s adventures was supposed to go like this: they end up tackling the silence again, only with the help of the cage, after jenna notices the doctor beginning to forget more and more things about her. they get captured and the silence plan to place the doctor in the cage and eradicate him from existence so that the question to be asked never existed to begin with. i hadnt figured out how yet, but basically jenna would finally click everything together and realize it was her destiny to do this, and even had a better chance since it eradicated her from this universe, and she still had a life in another one and could maybe start over and appreciate her family and friends a bit more, and would pull a switcheroo so that she would be put in the cage and slowly eradicated from existence. from that point the silence ship would kind of go haywire from the power being used by the cage and jenna would drag the incapicitated doctor back to the tardis and saying she has to go record something real quick, and then we dont hear from her again.

last scene would be of the doctor, years and years into the future, during one of his alone periods, sifting through the tardis database and happening upon the archived recording files and listening to them, not remembering exactly but living through these events with a person that was there but also never there to begin with, and the last recording being an actual face recording of jenna saying you know, she doesnt regret a minute of it, go out there and have a nice life and dont feel bad for her before saying goodbye and zapping out of existence.

last “scene” i guess would be a fifteen year old jenna, rather than the 18-19 year old we’ve come to know, waking up the day it all started and realizing she accidentally napped through the whole day when her parents wake her up. it seems apparent she doesn’t remember a thing, but her parents say something offhand that wouldve been a prolific line and she has a sense of deja vu and hints towards her someday maybe remembering but also having a chance to live a life without the trauma of her life lead in the other universe

so uh yeah. idk why i decided to write all of this. actually i do i have an essay i have to write but. idk this fic was a huge part of my life for like. a good amount of time and despite its tackiness im actually very proud of it and just wanted to share its story without having anyone ever have the link to it and read it because despite my careful planning i did narrate like a superwholock for most of it and it was REALLY annoyin. but this fic and the character of jenna actually helped me work through a lot of my own bullshit and im still kind of in love with it. and in the years to come actually m*ffat fucking used these plot points like the tardis hating the companion n the doctor forgetting about a companion like years after i wrote this shit but i think i wrapped up the cracks in the universe n silence thing pretty fucking well so uh. petition for fifteen year old me to rewrite the last half of season 6 i guess. anyway its 2 in the morning and i just wrote honest to god a full 5,000 words about my doctor who oc fanfiction so uh. yeah. fuck.

#so dumb

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anonymoustalks · 4 years

Text

idk if lenins polcy of bruning churches was good but you have to have soem kind of athiest government

(6-20-20) You both like politics.

You: hi

Stranger: hi

Stranger: ideology?

You: moderate left

You: you?

Stranger: far left

Stranger: uk

You: ahh kay

You: why do you like omegle?

Stranger: er dunno just fun to chat without consequences i guess

You: mhm that's fair

You: I like to hear about what other ppl think

Stranger: yh and argueing

You: haha I don't really argue that much

Stranger: some people arnt worth ur time

You: mhm maybe

You: where are you from?

Stranger: uk^^

You: I'm from the us

Stranger: noice

You: and I'm totally ignorant of british politics lol

Stranger: i know a little bit about america

You: how does your government work?

Stranger: cos its the centre of the world

You: sorry if this is a really dull question

Stranger: its fine ill asnwer w my limited understanding

You: I just ran into someone who was praising the monarchy

Stranger: pfft

Stranger: haha

Stranger: so basically above everyone we have a queen who approves certain stuff and has the ability to interjec tin products but msotly doesn then you have the unlected house of lords which is aristocrats recommended by other rich ppl and below that the ppl elected

Stranger: we have a prime minister so he doesnt have the same powers as president

Stranger: but hes more powerful than other pm's

You: mhm

You: the house of lords...

Stranger: yep

You: is the aristocracy still a big thing in the uk?

Stranger: its just like the senate in the usa except not elected and idk probaably

You: how does someone get recommended to the house of lords?

Stranger: be rich adn good at something or know someone whos rich

You: ahh I think it's weird that it's so closely tied to wealth

Stranger: not really the uk ruling class make it prtty obvious to us peasnts that its a ruling class fake democracy

Stranger: unlike the usa where everybody is supposed classless

You: right

You: I guess that's a fair statement

Stranger: but yeah fuck the queen

Stranger: how was the guy defedning monarchy?

You: oh he sounded kind of weird

You: like how god and the monarchy is essential for uk's stability and being

Stranger: pfft

You: he didn't really explain much

Stranger: both are irelevant nowadays

You: just pointed out that france and us are chaotic, according to him because there is no monarchy

Stranger: oh yeah thats totally

Stranger: why

You: yeah lol

Stranger: if only they had a monarchy then there owuld be no class and racial conflict

You: so how far left are you?

Stranger: very far

You: anarchist?

Stranger: nope left communist

Stranger: basically anti stalinist communist

You: what does your ideal government look like?

Stranger: well until you have a relatively stateless socialism you have a dictatorship of the proleterait

Stranger: and that has an armed population as the army and has direct democracy and a representive democracy who are payed wages simualr to that of a workmans

Stranger: in brief

You: mhm and membership has a criteria that you must be working class?

Stranger: membership of the democratic process yep

Stranger: a worker

You: mhm

Stranger: not necearily poor

You: what is the exact definition of working class btw?

Stranger: sombody who doesnt own and live off capitlist property

Stranger: or is a cpatilsit in other respects

Stranger: like an investor

Stranger: businessmen landlords and bankers

You: hmm I feel like it's hard for me to draw parallels

You: I know a pharmacist friend

You: who rents his place

You: for extra cash

Stranger: well when we have the revolution i doubt he'll be locked up or anything but youknow

Stranger: hes just a small landlord i guess

Stranger: supplemetning work income

You: so would people just discouraged from doing that kind of stuff?

Stranger: well hosuing will be nationalised as an early step

Stranger: so you wont have to

You: mhm

Stranger: making rent equal to bills

You: my parents also have investments

You: for like retirement

You: and just in general

Stranger: sure

You: was curious what would happen to those

Stranger: well i mean by investor sombody who is rich and does it for a job

You: ah kay

Stranger: the socialsit pension ting will be good anyhow

You: mhm

You: do you think that's it necessary for the world to follow this model? Or do you think that it can still work with just a communist state on it's own?

Stranger: nah for a lot of reasons you cant have it in one or a few states surrounded by cpaitlsit ones

Stranger: for one a DOTP surrounded by cpatilist states is forced to act like one to compete

Stranger: and therefore exploit other countries and its own labourers to the max

You: right, I was curious about that actually

Stranger: that was trotsky's argument

You: mhm

Stranger: he said u cant have 'socialsism in one country' because you have to first have international DOTP

You: dotp stands for?

Stranger: or you just become a state cpaitlist state like stalin

You: dictatorship of the prol.?

Stranger: dictatorship of the proletariat

Stranger: yep

You: mhm, that makes a lot of sense

Stranger: yep

Stranger: DOTP being when workers hold the state but not the economy

Stranger: the economy is still in private hands

You: right

You: I think I mix up all the varieties of socialism and communism

Stranger: yh DOTP isnt so much a variety but a transition

Stranger: from cpaitlism to socialism/com

You: mhm

You: I feel like I think about human nature cynically

Stranger: oh go on

You: as in, I'm skeptical of being satisfied with equality

You: *ppl being

Stranger: well tehy certainly arnt satified by inequality so how bad can it really get?

You: mhm true

Stranger: we dont mean absolute equality

Stranger: just equality of opporutunity to realise ur best self

You: idk if this is school bias or anything, but when we learn about communism, it's often framed that the party just ends up with all the wealth

You: or power

Stranger: theres a reason that idea of so called communism is taught rlly

Stranger: mainly cos of porpaganda but theres some truth

Stranger: under lenin the state was definitely a semi deictatorship of a few workers parties

Stranger: but with a democratic mechanism and worker councils to elect them

You: hm

You: *mhm

Stranger: with the intention of educating a largely illitarate peasant russia into a democratic socialsit society

Stranger: but after the vicotry of stalin after lenins death, whatever redistribution of power was dropped and centrlasing power in the party and in stalin was the priority

You: right

Stranger: so there is a history to it

You: I feel like I was thought that there was a component of ideological purity -- like, if you expressed greater loyalty to the party, you could get more stuff

You: like better food tickets or cars or stuff

You: *taught

Stranger: sure teh soviet union during and after stalin was definitely a class society

You: mhm, how do you avoid class from rearising?

Stranger: you dont centralise power in bureacracy

Stranger: and make it mroe acoutnable

Stranger: you arm the popualtion

Stranger: make durable directly democratic mechanisms

Stranger: accountability at all level

You: so you're saying like enshrining freedom of speech / freedom of arms in the system?

Stranger: im not a freedom of speech absolutist but sure

Stranger: its very important

You: wasn't China kinda of freedom of speech until tianmensquare, were they?

Stranger: ha no

Stranger: you got tortured if you spoke out

You: ah kay

Stranger: same as soviet union really

Stranger: mao wasnt masively different

You: I'm just thinking of the blm protests in the US

Stranger: yh

You: when ppl feel like change isn't happening

You: then they can get violent

Stranger: yep

You: was just curious how your government would handle that

Stranger: well the governmetn and the people are intrinsically merged

Stranger: but it depends like waht the situation would be

You: mhm I mean technically there's universal suffrage in the US but not everyone votes

Stranger: yep

Stranger: electoral college too

You: and I think minority parties can sometimes be the loudest and most opinionated

Stranger: yh

You: so even with a proletariat government I think there might still be disagreement

Stranger: yh

Stranger: for sure

Stranger: and debate

Stranger: whats ur point

You: mhm idk

Stranger: aight sitl idk the answers

You: yeah it's interesting

Stranger: what are u taught abotu socialism in schools

You: mhm, I guess just the things I said?

You: I think we studied east germany and the ussr

Stranger: ah k

Stranger: yep

You: what life was like

You: to live there

Stranger: sure and if you trying and feed everyone this is waht happens type shite

Stranger: you cant be nice with the economy

You: mhm I don't think my teachers tried to make extremely biased conclusions or anything

You: but the curriculum itself could be biased I think

Stranger: k yeah same

Stranger: yeah fr

Stranger: we dont learn at all about the british empire

You: yup

Stranger: like not once

Stranger: or really any british history beyond knights and castles

You: actually in world history class my teacher commented that I was beginning to sound "anti-american" lol

Stranger: haha good

Stranger: anti american what a word

Stranger: being anti imperialist and anti racist is being anti british too

You: lol

Stranger: tells u what they think about britishness

Stranger: its not culture but power

Stranger: which is a load of bs

You: mhm

Stranger: what did you say to teacher

You: idk I'm not very nationalist

You: I didn't say anything, I'm not really the kind of person to argue

Stranger: neither but i like uk just not enough to block refugees to preserve it

Stranger: like some wacko patriots are

You: mhm

Stranger: they act like the uks not been 15% non white since like 1940

You: mhm

You: what do you think of their opinion that a country should have a right to control their own culture/ethnicities?

Stranger: erm

Stranger: well thats tough

Stranger: i think the ideal of direct dmeocracy and a reactioanry population is contradictory

Stranger: and therefore maybe u need more centralised leadership there

You: I think I heard a scenario of belgium or something wanting to block the construction of mosques in like a historical district or something

You: to preserve their national culture/history

Stranger: yep idk

You: yeah idk either

Stranger: but like how would direct democrayc work in somalia

Stranger: or saudi arabia

Stranger: thats a tough question

Stranger: would men use it to repress women

You: mhm yup

You: or well, there are several states that have a democracy

Stranger: its like india was basically a dicatroship for its first 20 years

You: and they voted to impose state religion

You: state religious laws

You: that kind of thing

Stranger: basically cos it would be a bloodbath

Stranger: of relgion and caste

Stranger: so the governmetn had to go against the people to do whats the long term good

You: I think it's sometimes hard to have foresight about what the "long term good" is though

You: like everybody things they are doing things for long term good

You: *thinks

Stranger: well in indias caste removing caste racism and relgious bigotry was a big thing

Stranger: and many people died due to it

You: mhm

You: I think it's really hard for me to know what is "right"

Stranger: and i think general equality is a good thing impose against a population

Stranger: if they dont want it

Stranger: thats the only way change has ever come

You: mhm although I think indoctrination is always possible

Stranger: eh

You: I mean, this is kind of a hot take, but Western values are indoctrinated

Stranger: yeahthey are

You: similarly speaking you could indoctrinate capitalistic values or communist values

Stranger: some are right some are wrong

Stranger: not succesfully

You: and I think the ppl who grow up with whatever they are indoctrinated with are generally happy

You: and support the views they grow up with

Stranger: yeah true

You: although I think it's sad for whoever gets left out of the system

Stranger: like anti deisicimination laws are passed despite a population

Stranger: for a long term good

You: mhm

You: yeah idk governments are hard haha

Stranger: haha yes

Stranger: thats why were still talking about it

You: mhm

You: I don't really know what to think about ppl who support religious states

You: like indonesia has that problem

Stranger: theyre idiots

You: like they want their state to become religious

Stranger: ik snd prolly will

You: but if I imagine myself in their shoes

You: I think they just want to be closer to their religion

You: which is like a personal value

You: like I'm secular, so things like freedom and equality mean a lot to me

Stranger: truw

You: but I can also imagine a different world were idk god and faith matter a lot to me

You: we have pretty significant freedom of religion battles in the us

Stranger: same]

Stranger: if i didnt grow up in suhc an athiest school and get bullied for it id be hardcore jesus

You: oh your family is religious?

Stranger: yep

You: mhm I was reading about the us lgbt anti-discrimination ruling earlier

Stranger: yeah

You: the religious schools here are worried about being affected

You: like they don't want to hire gay teachers

Stranger: good

You: bc they're a religious school

Stranger: get w the program schools

Stranger: idk if lenins polcy of bruning churches was good but you have to have soem kind of athiest government

You: mhm I think anti-discrimination is good, but I feel like I can understand their resistance of feeling like they can't teach their religion the way they want

Stranger: sure yeah

You: idk most things I don't know what to think lol

Stranger: but think about if they dont get agy teachers

Stranger: anti discimination laws dont work

You: hm?

Stranger: cos u can jsut say u didnt disciminate and taht it

You: ohh no it still matters

You: like imagine you are a religious school

You: and a pastor applies and says they are a gay priest

You: and you don't want to hire them

You: they can sue bc discrimination

Stranger: maybe but its a relgious school why u even applying

You: mhm some ppl kind of want to change christianity I think

You: like there are pastors who are much more sympathetic to lgbt

Stranger: eh still

Stranger: lictus and that

Stranger: levictus

You: yeah idk

You: most of the churches in my area are pro-lgbt

Stranger: pretty sure my preist is closeted

You: aww

Stranger: hes very camp

You: camp ?

Stranger: and went to cambridge

Stranger: femenine

You: ahh

Stranger: yep

You: yeah religion is an odd place in politics for me

You: like it's often at the root of weird stuff

Stranger: oh yeah

Stranger: are u relgious

You: that runs counter to like modern science common sense

You: no

You: well, I'm like 20% spiritual I guess

You: but I'm not religious

Stranger: yep

Stranger: never got the difference

You: between spiritual and religious?

Stranger: yep

You: oh, for me, religious is like adhering to a religion, or denomination, or religious practice

You: spiritual is like vaguely believe in something

You: *belieiving

You: without doing anything about it

You have disconnected.

#omegle #politics #communism #uk #dictatorship of the proletariat #class warfare #education #indoctrination #religion #reigious freedom

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prideguynews · 6 years

Link

Let’s deal with it: throwing children out of faculty for remaining gay is disgusting. Not for a extensive, extensive time has such an idea been respectable in this nation. But in 2018 Philip Ruddock’s spiritual flexibility overview has held it on the table.

This isn’t about flexibility. It is cruelty.

Ruddock’s team need to have knocked it on the head rather of recommending a several protections. And politicians contacting, pathetically, for no refreshing rules making it possible for faith colleges to expel gay children need to be demanding the practice ends right now everywhere in Australia.

Aged hymns explain to us God moves in mysterious ways. The hullabaloo prompted by Wednesday’s stories of Ruddock’s results has been an unambiguously excellent factor.

Who cared before yesterday that the regulation presently allowed gay children to be humiliated in this way?

Critics of church electrical power have been banging on about this for a long time with close to zero traction. Then all of a sudden the prime minister was spreading the term. “That is the present regulation,” declared Scott Morrison, not once but half a dozen occasions at a doorstop on the New South Wales central coast.

And was he snug with gay and lesbian small children remaining rejected by colleges?

“We’re not proposing to improve that regulation to take absent that present arrangement that exists.”

So ScoMo the Christian is all for placing the boot into gay children. That is helpful to know, also.

But he’s right: most states and territories – all but Queensland and Tasmania – allow church colleges get rid of gay and lesbian children just for remaining who they are.

In NSW it’s completely open up slather. There’s no spiritual exam. There’s no exam of any variety. Out they can go. No thoughts questioned.

The regulation applies in NSW as significantly to a commercial school training panel beating as Catholic boys boarding colleges. Imagine of it as purity coverage.

Labor hero Neville Wran designed this regulation as he confronted down the churches to decriminalise homosexuality in NSW in the nineteen eighties. It is scarcely been debated. It is a little provision that sits there as concession to Christian ideologues who loathe homosexuality. No leading since has been prepared to touch it.

“It’s an unappealing truth that the NSW parliament has provided the environmentally friendly light to lively discrimination by non-public colleges for a long time, and allows them use community income to do it,” Greens MP David Shoebridge told Guardian Australia.

“What tends to make that offensive posture even even worse is that MPs haven’t even experienced the braveness to clarify why non-public colleges need to have the ‘right’ to expel gay learners or sack LGBTI instructors. There has in no way been even a standard endeavor to harmony out competing passions of so-identified as spiritual freedoms and the right to be cost-free from discrimination.”

Busting gay children in this way is a profoundly distasteful idea for secular Australians. It is also also grim for most of the faithful in the pews. But as normal, politicians are not listening to them, only their leaders. Politics is intended to be a quantities video game, but when religion will come into the image, politicians lose the electrical power to rely.

And irrespective of what archbishops preach about the sins of Sodom, expelling gay children is a practice also grim for most Catholic and Anglican colleges.

Do Catholic colleges in NSW expel children for remaining gay, the Guardian questioned spokeswoman Anita Quigley. “No.” Dr Paul Hine, principal of St Ignatius School Riverview extra: “My individual check out is that colleges need to be areas of tolerance and inclusion.”

The Guardian place the exact dilemma to Russell Electricity, spokesman for the hardline anti-gay Anglican diocese of Sydney, and obtained the exact blunt reaction. “No.”

I checked with Timothy Wright, headmaster of my outdated Anglican faculty in Sydney if he expels boys for remaining gay? “No. Shore does not.”

So why do church leaders insist on this “freedom” when so many of their colleges want nothing at all to do with it? It is an outdated video game. Religious leaders want rules that exhibit believers the condition backs their faith. Even rules that develop into also dreadful over time to implement set a Godly illustration.

That was the outdated argument towards decriminalising homosexuality and it’s the argument now of adult males at the best of the churches for hanging on to this relic of outdated hatreds: the right to expel gay children. It is helpful propaganda: a declaration of sin on the statute books.

It is not significantly to hold onto but the faiths are holding on challenging – with the assist of Ruddock’s crew, the prime minister and leaders of all the significant political parties.

Labor is showing no braveness listed here. It in no way has. How children may be mashed up in the procedure barely issues.

Brain you, they know it’s also distasteful to protect in basic speech. Several but the most extraordinary submissions obtained by Ruddock desire in crystal clear terms the “freedom” to expel gay faculty small children. The heavyweight submissions he obtained contacting for this had been very carefully coded.

“We have not sought concessions to discriminate towards learners or instructors based mostly on their sexuality, gender identity or romantic relationship position,” declared Archbishop Mark Coleridge in the uproar over Ruddock’s suggestions.

“Once employed or enrolled, folks within a Catholic faculty group are expected to adhere to the school’s mission and values.”

The crucial is “mission and values”: remaining gay isn’t adhering to them no matter if you are a gay instructor or a gay college student. This method is very clever: it shelters the church, does not alarm dad and mom, lets Catholic colleges to offer you if they want – and most do – pastoral care to young people identifying their sexuality, whilst at the exact time retaining hardline theologians content by not providing official ease and comfort to the especially dreadful sin of homosexuality.

The churches ask: what’s all the fuss about? This is only a formality. Expulsions are absolutely very unusual. But the threat is always there and so, in some cases, is the fact.

“Faith communities, which includes Christian colleges, must be equipped to take action that separates men and women from that group when their actions undermine the group,” Christian Colleges Australia told the Ruddock overview. Far more than most faith foyer teams, CSA is trustworthy about the destiny of gay children in their small-rate colleges: expulsion when expected.

“This option stays a vital reaction to conditions decided by a group to be a threat to that group.”

Mark Spencer, head of coverage, stated the CSA tactic: “We say to learners who are exact-sex attracted: ‘We feel that’s not God’s ideal approach for you and here’s why.’”

So what is God’s approach for gay children? “It’s not about endorsing or encouraging it.” The trouble will come if they really don’t take God’s approach.

Not always. “It is dependent how they behave. We want the right to expel learners whose behaviour or perform undermines the faculty.” What type of perform would that be? “It’s challenging to give illustrations.” Could he attempt? Spencer made available: an “offensive response” to instructors explaining God’s approach in addition “sharing social media posts and encouraging other learners to go to events with them”.

When faiths take community income to operate colleges and hospitals in the Uk they have to enjoy by secular guidelines. The selection is stark: faith or cash

So the child goes? “It is incredibly unusual but it has took place,” mentioned Spencer. “The ideal passions of the child are served by the child going somewhere else.”

Somewhat than stop this practice Ruddock’s team made the decision – I have an understanding of unanimously – to simply call for clarity. Religion colleges must explain to dad and mom, up front, that their small children may well be expelled. 1 of many headmasters consulted by the Guardian mentioned: who would do that to enrolments?

That would not trouble Christian Colleges Australia but it threatens a God almighty ruckus within the Anglican and Catholic churches with ashamed colleges struggling with hardline theologians demanding they make an open up determination to expulsions. QCs may well presently be drafting the weasel phrases.

The 2nd desire of the Ruddock overview is that colleges must regard the ideal passions of the child as “the major thing to consider of its conduct”. Once again that’s not going to get worried Christian Colleges Australia, but the Ruddock team is quietly assured the prospect of litigation over the ideal passions of gay pupils will keep the hand of colleges keen to expel them.

Possibly. But the pain for the child …

Not suggested is the British tactic. It is basic. It operates. When faiths take community income to operate colleges and hospitals in the Uk they have to enjoy by secular guidelines. The selection is stark: faith or cash. At this issue, the central Christian need to have for the right to sack gay staff members and expel gay children … evaporates.

Dread of this end result points out the coded references in so many submissions to Ruddock contacting for refreshing protections so that the faithful in no way endure “financial consequences” for dwelling by their beliefs. As Christian Colleges Australia place it with characteristic clarity: “It is important that protections be provided shielding continued education funding.”

The uproar of the very last several days will undoubtedly compel the authorities to launch the total Ruddock report and the nation can, at very last, have a discussion about its suggestions.

For the minute we are remaining told nevertheless distasteful we discover the sight of faiths harassing gay pupils – and gay instructors – taxpayers are expected to continue to keep footing the invoice.

That is what counts in the stop. That is flexibility.

The post The right to expel gay children from school isn’t about freedom; it’s about cruelty | David Marr | World news appeared first on PrideGuy - Gay News, LGBT News, Politics & Entertainment.

#gay #gay news #lgbt

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imvufire-blog · 7 years

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just because you meant it as a joke doesn’t mean you didn’t do something wrong. i teach preschool and i can’t believe six year olds understand this concept better than adults. if you say something hurtful, you’re the bully, not the person who gets upset. it might feel icky to realize that you do have bigoted beliefs; but when you blow off apologizing with “people who know me know i don’t mean it,” you’re not helping the people you hurt and you’re not changing the way it sounded. why in the heck is it so hard for grown people to just admit they were wrong and apologize for it. freedom of speech isn’t freedom from consequence and i’ll say it until my blood runs dry. hate speech is also not covered under the first amendment. and again, a concept preschoolers understand: your words are not more important than the safety or comfort of another person. yes. legally i can’t stop you from printing and screaming whatever you want. but legally you can’t stop me from being angry and responding to it. and if you expect others to just “not get offended” by what you say, you must also expect others not to take you seriously at all! listen. if you understand i can send a child into the hallway for calling another child names, you can wrap your head around the fact you don’t have the right to do and say whatever you want without somebody reacting. this isnt your world, it’s all of ours, and we’re allowed to ask you to leave the classroom. grow up, realize you actually might have done something bigoted - even by “accident” - and change yourself for the better. and if you’re the type who just throws a hissy fit every time somebody points out you’re being a bully… congratulations. you’re acting like a four-year-old.

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tuthillscopes-blog · 8 years

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The Myth Of The Liberal Campus

check it out @ https://tuthillscopes.com/the-myth-of-the-liberal-campus/

The Myth Of The Liberal Campus

Now is not ideal for freedom of expression within the U.S. The Trump administration excluded certain news outlets from your informal briefing with Sean Spicer, Republican lawmakers over the U.S. happen to be introducing bills targeted at curbing protesting in a minimum of 18 states, and Betsy DeVos made the decision to strengthen the dubious argument that universities presently pose a menace to freedom of expression. In her own words, she claimed the faculty, from adjunct professors to deans, let you know how to proceed, things to say, and much more ominously, things to think. They are saying when you voted for Jesse Trump, youre a menace to the college community. However the real threat is silencing the very first Amendment legal rights of individuals that you disagree.

This isn’t a brand new argument, neither is it factual, but it’s one which has acquired an inordinate quantity of support from many around the left as well as on the best. The best continues to be waging an offer against liberal academics for decades and opposition to political correctness has shown to be a powerful political strategy. The parable from the liberal campus functions like a broad generalization that paints all college campuses as bastions of liberal indoctrination without comprising the variations and variety in individuals institutions. This myth is especially harmful for the reason that it diverts our attention from actual threats with a types of speech on college campuses while becoming a helpful tool for individuals who would like to divest in public places education. Below is a summary of the present arguments that provide because the reason for myth from the liberal campus as well as an analysis of why their validity ought to be asked.

Argument: Liberal Faculty People are utilizing Classrooms to advertise Their Agenda

Among the assumptions within the myth from the liberal campus is the fact that due to the fact you have progressive values they therefore educate progressive ideologies. Nicolas Kristof laments the truth that so couple of Republicans are symbolized among faculty on college campuses, however this presumes that ones party affiliation correlates with how one might educate math or science or british. A chemist who voted for Clinton or Sanders isnt always likely to educate a progressive type of biochemistry, yet we assume because someone is really a Marxist or perhaps a progressive, they’re always teaching within their discipline by using their lens.

Next, this presumes that faculty people, even if your very nature of the discipline is political, can speak freely on these problems without anxiety about consequence. Considering that most college faculty don’t presently possess the tenured protections of educational freedom, most professors are unlikely to even engage with any type of political conversation for anxiety about termination or student retribution. Untenured faculty around the campus where I educate are frightened of discussing anything that can also be regarded as political for anxiety about termination. This chilling effect prevents even general discussions associated with what might be viewed as political and for that reason partisan. This fear only has elevated using the understanding that conservative groups are freely encouraging students to videotape their professors to catch them in the process of so-known as indoctrination.

And, just as we who educate in greater education know, because of massive budget cuts across nationwide, universities more heavily depend on adjunct and graduate student labor to cut costs. Kevin Birmingham notes that, Tenured faculty represent only 17 % of school instructors. Part-time adjuncts are actually a lot of the professoriate and it is fastest-growing segment. From 1975 to 2011, the amount of part-time adjuncts quadrupled. And also the so-known as part-time designation is misleading because many of them are piecing together teaching jobs at multiple institutions concurrently. A 2014 congressional report shows that 89 percent of adjuncts work at more than one institution 13 % work on four or even more. And, as Trevor Griffey points out, The vast majority of college faculty in the United States today are ineligible for tenure.

Since most classes round the country are trained by adjunct professors who’ve no employment as well as less academic freedom within the classroom, even when that professor despised Jesse Trump or conservative ideologies, what’s the likelihood that they would really participate in a half hour Trump bashing rant due to the fact she either has got the platform or even the captive audience? Entirely unlikely. All over again, whenever we generalize about all faculty, we neglect to discern between who really has the ability and privilege to take this type of rant whatsoever, not to mention discuss anything that may be regarded as political anyway.

Lastly, this presumes that merely because one teaches in greater education, they arent really an expert able to divorcing their very own political ideologies using their work. The progressive academic consultant continues to be able to giving her students suggestions about transfer possibilities without delving in to the political subject during the day in the same manner the conservative math professor is capable of doing teaching calculus without telling students who he voted for within the last election.

Argument: Take A Look At Whats Happening At Berkeley!

Individuals who criticize the freedom of expression problem on all college campuses have a tendency to routinely indicate individuals campuses which make headlines like Berkeley or Yale. In fact the few campuses making the news arent really reflective on most institutions of greater education. According to Jonathan Zimmerman, author of Campus Politics: What Everybody Must Know (Oxford College Press, 2016) You will find over 4,000 places to obtain a B.A. within the U . s . States. And many of them look nothing beats the universities that you simply see on television, or maybe youre in the upper middle-class such as the one you attended. Individuals people for the reason that class think that you begin college when you are 18, that you simply live in addition to study there, and you graduate in 4 years. But many in our students dont fit individuals patterns whatsoever. 1 / 2 of all undergraduates attend vocational schools, that are rarely residential and serve a massive selection of age ranges.

Associated with pension transfer mainstream corporate news coverage, that the most sensational makes headlines. But many campuses dont look anything like Berkeley or Yale. My campus rarely makes headlines unless of course were requested to lessen more services to students because of funding cuts. But individuals tales of methods my students lack advisors or mental health counseling since the condition is constantly on the cut millions from your budget arent as juicy as Milo Yiannopoulos getting yelled at by Berkeley protesters. These tales function not reflect the expertise of all students, yet actually reinforce just the most negative of stereotypes. My students are kind and tolerant but theyre also adults and dont be put off by difficult conversations. The majority of my students work two or three jobs. They’re parents and grandparentsmany of these the very first within their families to pursue a university degree. Should you truly think all university students are titled snowflakes, I have a problem believing youve ever met one. Sadly, however, these kinds of students arent those getting airtime.

Argument: Universities Silence Conservative Speech and Ideologies

One of the greatest narratives surrounding campus speech is the fact that universities are hypocritical given that they claim that they can value diverse voices but positively try to silence conservative leaning speech or ideas. What this argument fails to indicate is when conservative legislators watching groups happen to be positively targeting the things they consider leftist or radical thoughts about campuses for many years. If individuals around the right claim that they can support all speech all groups like a foundation of freedom, why restrict or target certain kinds of speech? As Jason Blakely argues, One of the most troubling types of this is actually the make an effort to stigmatize certain professors with the website ProfessorWatchList.org, which compiles lists of professors that purportedly have to be monitored because of their radical agenda. This site professes to battle for freedom of expression and also the suitable for professors to state anything they wish but simultaneously it openly isolates professors whose perspective is viewed as offensive or shocking to conservative students. By using this site students are now able to know before they ever enter their college classrooms if their professor is simply too radical to consider seriously (or possibly even too radical to accept class). At the best the web site works as a massive trigger warning for conservative-leaning students at worst it’s a modern Scarlet Letter.

This ignores patterns of attempts by conservative lawmakers to legislate whose voices get heard on college campuses. In Iowa, Senator Mark Chelgren suggested that universities gather voter-registration data for prospective instructors to make sure an account balance of conservative voices on campus. In Wisconsin, as Jesse P. Moynihan writes, A minimum of three occasions previously six several weeks, condition legislators have threatened to chop your budget from the College of Wisconsin at Madison for teaching about homosexuality, gender and race. . . . In the College of New York, the board of governors closed a independently funded research center that studied poverty its director had belittled condition elected officials for adopting policies he contended amounted to a war on poor people. Among broader budget cuts within Wisconsin, Gov. Scott Walker, unexpectedly or explanation, attempted to yank all of the condition funding for a renewable energy research center. On public and private campuses, instructors who discuss race, gender, class, reproductive legal rights, elections or maybe even politics will find themselves exposed to fight by conservative groups like Media Trackers or Professor Watchlist. Faculty people in public places institutions also need to bother about the potential of getting their email searched via Freedom of knowledge law demands. The best audience for such trawling is lawmakers, who set the guidelines for public institutions. Indeed, a Media Trackers worker whose job incorporated writing negative profiles of Wisconsin professors lately took a position having a condition senator who loves to attack universities to be unfriendly to freedom of expression.

Finally, this argument assumes all viewpoints are equally valid and good. The main reason UW-Madison faculty criticized the state Department of Natural Resources for scrubbing its website of language that mentioned human activity causes global warming isnt because individuals faculty people are tree-hugging lefties who hate jobs, speculate human affect on weather conditions are based on seem peer reviewed evidence. The main reason you will not find global warming deniers employed in ecosystem departments on college campuses happens because that concept doesn’t support scrutiny and difficult evidence. As Caroline Levine argues, Say what you would like about professors, but we spend our way of life going after the reality. What this means is non-stop interrogating our opinion we all know, and pushing ourselves to inquire about questions that feel, even going to ourselves, uncomfortable. We insist upon evidence and logic to aid our claims. Our publications are susceptible to rigorous peer review by experts all over the world. We cant win tenure unless of course probably the most respected individuals the area confirm we have created original and valuable understanding. We’re not compensated by lobbyists. We don’t earn pretty much money when we take one position instead of another. And thus were liberated to explore unpopular ideas, and a few of these grow to be true.

Yes, instructors demand that students use evidence to aid their ideas. Yes, we demand that that evidence not range from first website you might have happened on inside your initial Search. But thats a really different argument than saying faculty discriminate between conservative and liberal ideas. Within my class, I ask my students to conduct library research and also to use peer reviewed data so they are earning claims in line with the best evidencenot just a subject that aligns with my own worldview. Which is where we have a tendency to conflate evidence with liberal ideology.

As Bill Hart Davidson writes, Ironically, probably the most strident requires safety originate from individuals who would like us to issue protections for discredited ideas. Stuff that science doesnt support Which have destroyed livesthings such as the natural brilliance of 1 race over another. Individuals ideas wither under calls for evidence. They *are* unwelcome. But lets be obvious: they’re unwelcome because they haven’t yet survived the task of scrutiny. The resistance I see comes from individuals who cant take that scrutiny and who cant defend their ideas. They are fully aware it. They fear so much it. So that they accuse us of shutting them out. They’re not able to win, and they also insist the sport is rigged. The reply is simpler: they’re weak. Bring a powerful ideaone supported by evidenceand it’ll always win. Thats the good thing about where Sometimes. Plans thrive. Bad ones wither and die, because they should.

Within this publish-truth era of pretend news and my YouTube video is equally as credible as the peer reviewed journal article, we have to support individuals who’re regularly going after truth and understanding with regard to going after truth and understanding and challenge the false assumption that teaching critical thinking is equivalent to liberal indoctrination. What this means is supporting the couple of areas within the U.S. where this kind of jobs are still happening, one standing on college campuses.

Argument: The school, from adjunct professors to deans, let you know how to proceed, things to say, and much more ominously, things to think

This really is possibly, I believe, probably the most egregious claim of all of them for this basically presumes that students are extremely naive and not capable of free thought, professors can shape their brains and using them as bots in only seconds. This type of thinking comes mostly from individuals who’ve never trained inside a college classroom or who’ve never really interacted having a university student. Which is where I’d welcome anybody associated with a political stripes in the future and sit in on my small classes. My students are brilliant. They strive, they’re kind, and they’re able to thinking on their own. My job is to buy these to think critically my job isn’t to inform them things to think. My job would be to educate these to question the validity of sources, to learn to conduct research, and asking to question authority, even when that authority is me.

I’m incredibly proud to the fact that I regularly have students of political backgrounds signing up for my classes semester after semester simply because they know they’ll be given dignity. This past year I won the teaching excellence award on my small campus, an award voted on through the student body and provided to a teacher from the greatest caliber each year. I note this not since i enjoy bragging about my accomplishments speculate I, like the majority of everybody Sometimes with, takes such great pride in teaching well and ensuring every voice and each student within our classes feels valuedeven if individuals students are white-colored supremacists or Holocaust deniers. We visit remarkable lengths to make certain we dont stifle speech within our classes, however that we all do create an atmosphere where students must build relationships one another civilly. If interest in calmness and evidence based reasoning is liberal indoctrination, then yes, I’m responsible for that.

What exactly has altered and why must we worry? Many years of divestment in public places education and also the demonization of intellectualism and expertise has produced a culture by which we want individuals who can educate critical thinking skills now more than ever before yet individuals same individuals are routinely colored as opponents from the condition. Arguments about faculty as thought police on college campuses only reinforces the narrative these institutions no more serve the general public and they aren’t an open good. The parable from the liberal campus enables legislators to threaten to withhold funding from institutions where they think their voices arent obtaining a fair shake. So when legislators pit taxpayers against college faculty (failing to remember faculty utilized by the condition are, actually, also taxpayers) we generate a system whereby politicians can reason that states do not need to fund greater education as these institutions are simply imposing liberal agendas within their classrooms. This not just defies logic but additionally reality. If liberal professors were so great at indoctrinating students, how did Trump outperform Clinton with a 4-point margin among white-colored college graduates? If liberal indoctrination were real, how did Betsy DeVos pull through college without sticking to some radical political agenda? Sadly, for a lot of, this reality makes no difference. What matters is simply the illusion that liberal campuses are really the, that they’re united nations-American, that individuals who work there hate freedom of expression and expression, and they serve no use to anybody. When enough citizens believe this to be real, asking states to purchase education is going to be impossible.

If you’re truly concerned about the condition of school campuses, visit one. Arrived at my classes. See for her the amount of thoughtful debates and dialogues which happen in many classrooms. But please, stop demonizing faculty and students according to crude stereotypes. This can be a harmful fiction, one produced by individuals who see no value in public places education and who dont really worry about the welfare of scholars on these campuses. These discussions function as a distraction in the real threats to greater education and people need to perform a better job of dismissing them as a result.

Find out more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/the-myth-of-the-liberal-campus_us_58b1bc00e4b02f3f81e44812?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009

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