#folie a deux was just “look at joker isn't he a loser piss boy”

[witchrotdraws]

the Joker sequel being a musical didn't worry me all that much until the "singing" in question was just mumbling and half dancing around for a few seconds mid scene. they didn't even try.

[paracosmniac]

I've just rewatched both the original Joker and Folie a Deux and it's disheartening how the original is denied all possible interpretations now. And I'm sure Todd did that on purpose. It's almost like he's offended that his vision of Arthur got twisted in a way he never expected and the sequel as a huge fuck you to the audience that turned his deranged character into a guy we all had sympathy for. It's almost like he feels ashamed that we found Arthur likeable and now whole heartedly denied him any chance to rise. It ain't nothing but a farce aimed to educate the slow witted. Folie a Deux revolves around the idea that Arthur is not a criminal mastermind, he ain't chaotic evil and never will be. He is still a full on loser, but with blood on his hands. Todd might have made us feel sympathy for the devil in the original Joker, but devil has to pay for his sins no matter how we feel for him.

There shouldn't have been an hour long debate whether it was Arthur or Joker who committed those crimes. He was to be found guilty no matter what arguments the defence provides. And it doesn't really matter who was behind those murders. I think Arthur knew too darn well that he couldn't live up to the standarts his followers set. He was prone to violence but never took pleasure in taking those lives. He made those crimes out of despair and hurt. And that's not what people expected to hear from him. So he didn't fit anywhere, was he wearing a Joker mask or was it him all along it didn't really matter. He was fucked either way.

I think the main reason why the audience was so pissed with Folie a Deux is Todds intention to turn a blind eye on the reasons why Arthur ended up being such a srew up. It turns out Pennys abuse followed by a serious head injury was not enough to find Arthur a mentally defective person. Everything that's happened in his childhood was not enough to play a psychiatric defence. The specialist that spent 90 minuts to give him a mental examination ruled out the possibility that his childhood trauma could lead into splitting his personalty in two. How offensive was that towards the audience? You really gonna condone such behavior and expect people to swallow it for the sake of bringing justice? Joker 2019 was built around the concept of a villian being born out of the system that failed him from the very beginning. So why do you let the society to get away with what they did? Who was responsible for this childs safety, who was there to listen to him when he struggled ? Why was he denied medication? All these questions matter before you start judging the character.

We were denied any credible examination of Arthurs mental state. Turning the courtroom into the show drama where people take pride and pleasure in humiliating the defendant. The stage setting for the character regression no one needed.

We left Arthur/Joker at the moment of liberation in the first film. That guy was done feeling sorry. Both for himself, and for the society. And that's perfectly fine for a fictional character. "Look what you've done, look where it lead to? - I know, isn't it beautiful?" Not everything should be edificatory. Sometimes you need the little guy to win. So let him be, let him live that fantasy. Boy does he deserve that. And so do we