#fnavimaritel

[frigid-moon-fall]

I went through the PSX version skits. Here's some notes. Take anything I say with a grain of salt. I am super amateur.

Stahn hums songs in his sleep sometimes…

Stahn wants to show his family the sights he's seen.

When in Fitzgald, Stahn says he doesn't want to visit his home because his family would just be angry at him and they'd fight. Mary thinks it's nice he has someone waiting for him, and Rutee reminds her she isn't alone.

Stahn, Rutee and Mary dislike the extreme heat of Calvalese, but Rutee complains way louder. Stahn says he doesn't like it because he grew up in a mountainous area. (In the remake, Stahn doesn't mind the heat at all.) Stahn and Rutee both dislike the cold, but Stahn likes snow. Leon doesn't appreciate their whining and says to get used to it.

There's a separate skit with Woodrow, Chelsea and Mary all struggling to stand the heat. Stahn observes it must be because they're all from Phandaria.

When you have very little money, Stahn will worry about having to sleep on the street. Johnny isn't worried at all, says that's the bard life. Mary says it's fine because monsters drop food. Stahn is worried that they have no sense of danger.

Stahn tries his hand at poetry. Rutee jokes that he's better than Johnny.

There's a series of skits where characters try to imitate each-other. There's two of each, one where they're good at it, and one where they're bad at it. Rutee imitates Philia, and admits she practiced hard at it. Stahn imitates Leon, Rutee laughs, Leon doesn't quite understand he's being mocked but doesn't appreciate it anyway. When Leon does realize he's being mocked, he responds "Those will be your last words." Stahn also imitates Woodrow and Rutee.

Stahn is quick to point out when Rutee isn't being honest

When Rutee has poison status, Stahn assumes she ate something weird. Rutee corrects him, but he continues wondering if they have any items that help with food poisoning.

Rutee considers growing her hair out. Stahn says it looks good short. Rutee retorts Stahn should cut his hair because they'll be mistaken for opposite sexes like this. (They seem to have given this a try by the time Kyle is born…) (Stahn's face is typically drawn to have a strong jaw at least compared to most male protagonists... Was the original intent that Stahn should be perceived as feminine? Or is Rutee just being grumpy)

Rutee asks what Stahn's dream is. He noncommittaly says being a hero. Rutee laughs and mocks him.

Rutee calls herself delicate, but Stahn doesn't seem to agree

Rutee makes a big deal about not liking country boys and differentiating herself from Stahn

Rutee calls Stahn lewd when he says about Mary "she's really a married woman after all"??

Stahn and Rutee squabble about as often as Rutee and Leon did

Rutee asks what to do after they're done. Stahn says probably go back to the countryside and relax. Rutee misunderstood, thinking Stahn was inviting her to come back with him, so she complains that she doesn't like the countryside. Stahn's confused and asks what she's on about since it's him who's going back there, not her.

Rutee's pretty sure she and Stahn would have met and become friends even if they hadn't met at the temple. Stahn says no she wouldn't because she'd still be stuck in the temple.

Rutee thinks the people of… Calvalese? Aquaveil? (I was listening to just a collection of voice clips without visuals…) are cold. Chelsea thinks exclusionism is immature and they should grow up. Stahn thinks they're good people, but Rutee says that's why he's fooled so easily.

Rutee and Mary both apologize for causing trouble for each-other.

Rutee tries to convince Chelsea that the ocean is made of sweat. Stahn scolds her.

Rutee is happy (in an ego-boosting way) to be called beautiful by Johnny. She apparently also gets envious looks from other women.

Rutee worries about the orphanage because of the aethersphere. Stahn, Woodrow and Philia urge her to go check on it.

Leon corrects Rutee to use proper titles when referring to Hugo. Rutee doesn't like that, and even mocks Leon for being such a loyal servant.

Rutee and Leon fight often, bickering petulantly like siblings, calling each-other children and their personalities rotten.

Some time after Leon dies, Stahn hears Rutee muttering and observes that Rutee must have cared about Leon, and Rutee insults Leon and insists she has no brother, but she's obviously upset.

After they set off, Leon, without prompting, begins ordering Stahn and Rutee on their behavior pointlessly. It's clear he's just being a brat.

Philia observes that Rutee and Leon are "close" because they fight like brother and sister.

Leon reminds them of the shock tiaras frequently to keep them in line, and shows willingness to shock Stahn for simply forgetting the route to Straylize Temple.

Woodrow and Philia say the days are passing by faster. Leon calls them old.

Stahn is sleepy and Philia is nervous. Leon calls them old. (Rutee calls him a brat)

Leon completely loses his cool and responds angrily and animatedly with a higher voice when Rutee accuses him of having a sister complex for Marian. He insists she's like a stepmother (義理の母親) to him. Rutee just eggs him on further by calling it a mother complex.

Stahn says he likes snow, and Rutee and Leon gang up to mock him for some reason. Mary's on his side at least. Rutee and Leon tend to get annoyed and yell at him for a decent amount of the same things.

Stahn and Leon gang up on Rutee to call her selfish. (While Stahn also admits that he thinks of himself as selfish, but Rutee is worse.)

Stahn and Rutee... never gang up on Leon!

Stahn gets annoyed when Leon's impatient for them to get going.

Leon tells Stahn to stop smiling so much, it's unsightly. Stahn tells Leon he should try being a little nicer. Leon says no.

Leon seems to appreciate it when Stahn's confident about fighting.

Leon seems genuine about wanting the eye out of Greybaum's hands because it's dangerous. (This is odd, because he's in on the plan.) He says he has to do something about it, and Stahn corrects him "Not just you—we." (hhh in that "you're not alone" way) Leon responds with his usual "say what you want" tsun.

Stahn attempts small talk with Leon just because he doesn't want it to be quiet between them. Leon's pretty chill when he responds he doesn't see a need for pointless noise.

Stahn thinks... an innkeeper's daughter? (宿屋の娘. I found a forum post implying he's talking about Ilene here) was pretty. Leon asks if he likes "that kind of thing" and Stahn says he was just observing she was pretty. (I can't decide on Leon's emotion here. It could be curious, it could be slightly annoyed.)

Leon's KO skit has Philia offer for him to use her shoulder for support. He says he'd rather die than need a woman's help. (?!) Rutee says it should be fine to leave behind the immature brat who collapsed during his mission. He basically calls her a brat back (with possibly the most impressive "HMPH" I've ever heard), and she either repeats it's fine to leave him behind 'cause he talks such shit, or that he must be fine because he can talk such shit.

Philia observes how isolated from the outside world she was, as she spent most of her life within the temple. She thinks the outside world is dirty and calls herself a clean-freak. Leon calls her troublesome for it.

Philia and Stahn bond a bit over both having been isolated from the rest of the world.

Stahn asks Philia if she wants to go back to the temple, but Philia feels fulfilled out here.

Philia's parents were devout followers, so she pretty much inherited their beliefs

Stahn doubts his skills as a swordsman. Philia tells him he's improving, and he quickly cheers up in a flustered way.

When Stahn doubts his ability when the aethersphere forms, Philia and Johnny seem to be the best at cheering him up.

Philia feels bad for taking Stahn from Lilith. Stahn says she'll get over it. Philia says she's cute, and Stahn disagrees because she just bosses him around. Philia says that's how she shows her love.

Stahn's KO skit has Philia worried for him, and it has a very romantic atmosphere. Ah, Johnny also says so, which flusters Philia.

Philia is more devoted to her religion, openly praying. Rutee politely doesn't care for it. Philia is upset that the party isn't religious enough. Stahn doesn't quite understand the praying, assuming she feels ill, so he offers to take her to a doctor.

Philia worries that when they're done, she won't see anyone ever again. Stahn assures her that everyone is too nice to just completely separate, and they'll all meet up whenever they want.

Rutee asks Philia about her love life and her type. Philia doesn't want to answer.

Philia removes a fallen eyelash from Rutee's cheek. Stahn and Philia don't understand why Rutee's so flustered.

Stahn is more likely to suggest taking a break for Philia's sake than for Rutee's.

Rutee gets jealous of Philia for how much attention Stahn was giving her before she got Clemente.

Philia offers to mend Stahn's cape when it's damaged. Kongman asks her to mend his too, but he doesn't have one…

Some light political talk between Woodrow and Johnny

Woodrow and Stahn are envious of each-others' positions of freedom and royalty. Woodrow offers to swap places, but Stahn says that'd be terrifying.

Both Rutee and Woodrow worry about Mary's wellbeing rejoining the party. Mary says Woodrow reminds her of Dalis because he's trying to keep her from fighting. She says it lightheartedly, but Woodrow seems shy about it.

Woodrow offers to do anything Mary needs, and she asks him to hold on to Dalis's sword. He says she's being deliberately mean.

Mary offers to help Woodrow with improving Phandaria when everything is over.

Woodrow asks about Mary's worries, and Mary asks why he's so worried about her. He takes a while to answer, and stutters that it's because they're fellow countrymen, and as King, it's his job to protect her. Mary isn't convinced that that's the only reason, but lets it go.

For Mary's KO skit, Woodrow loses his cool entirely and basically confesses his love to her. He says there's no point in fighting if Mary should fall, and that he needs her. Mary says he'll regret saying such things later, but he insists he won't. (TOD2 guidebooks would later specify that Woodrow's love for Mary was one-sided, and she rejected him. Never would have guessed this went on since the remake removed Woodrow's feelings for Mary entirely, and I don't remember these feelings being hinted at outside of skits, so the localization probably didn't have it at all.)

Chelsea seems to be aware of Woodrow's infatuation with Mary, because she randomly tells Mary that she's not going to lose to her.

Mary asks if Stahn ever thinks about people. … Stahn and I are both confused by what she means. She says he'll understand one day.

I have no idea how to interpret Stahn's laughter when Mary says riding a boat sounds fun. I don't know if he's nervous about her airheadedness (it's while she has amnesia) or if he's bashful because she's being cute

Mary wonders if she would have been happier if she never regained her memories. Philia offers to hear her troubles.

Chelsea thinks it's "a waste" that Mary speaks like a man. Mary doesn't see a problem with how she speaks. (Mary uses some rougher, casual language, but she still uses わたし (in hiragana!) and her cadence is generally very polite.)

Mary comforts Johnny about his relationship with his family.

Johnny recognizes that Mary is different when she rejoins. Mary observes that they both have a lot of worries right now.

Stahn is just generally good with Chelsea. He sounds so gentle with her a lot of the time.

Chelsea asks what "impertinent" means but Stahn doesn't know either. Chelsea says people call her that a lot.

Chelsea wants to go on adventures to train herself to be a good wife. That's just how it's done! When she says she'll become Queen of Phandaria, Stahn laughs at her and jokingly cheers her on. (…Holy shit?? Stahn's laugh is incredibly cute.)

Stahn and Woodrow bond over their similar situations with clingy girls (Chelsea and Lilith). Chelsea doesn't realize she's being talked about poorly.

(For Chelsea's KO skit?) Woodrow scolds Chelsea for getting herself in trouble. Calls her immature and that it'd be a good opportunity to go home. He doesn't think he could repair his relationship with Alba if something happened to Chelsea.

I cannot make heads or tails of what Chelsea's aim is when she gets poisoned. She seems to enjoy it.

Chelsea says she wants to grow up to be like Rutee and Philia. Stahn tells her she shouldn't.

Johnny is sad that Phandaria girls have to wear so many clothes and cover up their beautiful skin. (Also Phandaria girls apparently have a reputation for having beautiful skin because of the snow)

Johnny flirts with Rutee, but she doesn't quite get it. Chelsea says it's pointless to pursue her.

Johnny flirts with Philia. Stahn is embarrassed to hear it. (He also flirts with her in the pachislot, but that might have been just to get a rise out of Kongman)

Johnny mocks Kongman's singing, but he doesn't realize he's being mocked. Stahn does.

Stahn admires Kongman's strength, but Kongman says Stahn is plenty strong himself. Other than this, Kongman's kind of a jerk.

Rutee's pissed because Kongman has increased their food costs by an absurd amount. Kongman doesn't think women should eat much. Specifically he thinks Rutee should eat less.

Kongman tries to get Stahn to go with him to fool around with drunk girls? (Or was it to get the girls of the party to drink?) Rutee scolds him. Kongman asks if he's going to refuse because a woman told him to. Philia calls Kongman scum. Critical hit.

[frigid-moon-fall]

I looked into the anniversary encyclopedia because I got impatient and a very cool person using a very cool name uploaded them and a ton of other guides

(*´艸`) They call Stahn's hair 見事. Rays also says his hair is in surprisingly good health and really nice to touch and beautiful and 立派. They gotta start drawing his hair more like the Asteria art where it's all fabulous 'cause it usually looks like neglected straw to me lmao

Really... this depiction of his hair is far more worthy of most of the praise it gets. But I think it's also the only time it's ever been like this. Some of Kasukabe's art has him with kinda uncanny looking hair sometimes but I guess it looks softer than the usual depiction.

Yeah, the Asteria art is probably the go-to if they want to visually convey his hair is "nice" without compromising on the wild shape too much.

...Ah, anyway...

The first note on Leon is also ( .;´;_ゝ;｀:,) But I don't think I understand the very first part of it well enough. Something like "Thinks the lowest of others more than anyone else, but is also wishing for love more than anyone else." It has a better flow in Japanese but I don't know how to grammar my English to work as well. His second page feels like it's retconning some stuff even from DC? I'll patiently wait now for better people to translate it, but something I think I read on it specified that he wishes for Marian's happiness above all else, which... I would sooner write (not translate) as "wellbeing" since that's pretty dang incorrect since she explicitly does not want him to be doing the things he does for her and he should damn well know it won't make her happy.

[frigid-moon-fall]

Leon has eventually gotten his ice cream in a few different ways.

Philia becomes his ice cream slave in Radiant Mythology

(And he regularly eats 50 scoops in one sitting. Leon 50 Scoops Magnus.)

4koma in the DC manga (not sure how seriously we're meant to take them)

(He says they're not as good as Marian's home made sweets)

Kasukabe's artbook

(Stahn with matcha flavor and Rutee with cherry! The patch changed matcha to mocha for some reason.)

Tales of Kizna artwork (It was for the last hurrah of the game? I think? What a nice note to go out on...)

(Stahn got two and the one he finished eating is even a winner stick!)

(...Following the line of Leon's waist from above his hand to below his hand... the shape doesn't seem to match up... Unless this particular artist has their own ideas about Leon's figure)

Stahn asks him to get ice cream together in Rays

(I don't know if they end up getting ice cream or not, but they do walk around the food stalls together, which made Stahn happier than he's been in a long time)

.........

And of course. Teehee.

I wonder if there's more that I haven't seen yet?

[frigid-moon-fall]

Leon kept asking Marian to join him for meals and tea, but he never offered to help her with any of her tasks until the shopping scene? I feel like that's a subtle nod that his affections for her are mostly self-centered. Along with disregarding her wishes regarding her hostage status, I wonder how much he actually considers her feelings and what she wants? I wonder how much of the real Marian Leon even knows, too? Despite her genuine kindness for him, she keeps a certain distance between them that he doesn't seem to notice.

魔人闇 also kind of makes me feel uncomfortable in that regard, too. He normally says the attack name fondly and gently (except in RM where he's really angry for some reason). But. It feels like such a villainous thing. Pure darkness. Demonic Darkness. Darkness is not always evil, but. The DC manga does sort of frame it that way, and as something that needs to be broken. It's the attack he first defeats Stahn with, and it's also the final attack that he ever uses, and Stahn cuts through it with one of his two light element attacks, 灼光拳. As Leon's reeling, he thinks of it as radiant and warm, internally picturing it as a small flame in his hands, marveling at it and holding it close. When he reaches out, he thinks of the group as illuminating.

[frigid-moon-fall]

A lot of locations got simplified in the PS2 remake. Makes sense, since although it's nice to see a full city and house layout, those are kind of useless clutter that a lot of players will feel compelled to explore and then feel like they wasted time when there's nothing interesting.

I wanted to have this on hand just to help display that the manor is supposed to be way larger than the remake shows.

I don't know if the rest of the manor's rooms have their uses specified through the game (I really need to go back through it properly), but Hugo's study is mentioned by name when you first arrive. I don't know if any of the bedroom's are Leon's, considering none of them are obviously Hugo's either, and Proust kind of implied that Leon doesn't stay at the manor after a certain point. (Then again, Proust was also published 2 years after the game, and the manga that started publication 2 days after the game had already made several changes. Continuity, who needs it.)

The eerily realistic portrait is definitely Chris. It's interesting to see how that portrait changes through adaptations and artbooks. Since it's so realistic, I wonder if it was sourced from a real photograph?

[frigid-moon-fall]

I noticed I don't write or think a lot about them realizing feelings before everyone splits up. But that's also the only time they actually have within canon to act on anything… and it's an interesting angle to take, too, since in continuities where Leon has always been under duress, he has solid reasons to hold feelings back.

For one, Marian still comes first, whether he loves someone else or not. And it'd probably take until the last minute together before Stahn leaves for him to ask for help, if ever. So he'd be acting according to what he's sure is already going to happen: He's going to save Marian alone, and he's going to wait for the end of the world with her. There's no future for him with Stahn because there is no future, period.

For two, Stahn would just become another weakness. Something Hugo could capture and threaten. This Leon already knows how powerful Hugo is, so he knows there's no point in trying to fight him. He'd only be putting Stahn in danger if he let himself get close to him.

But I think both of those could cancel each-other out, too. The world is going to end anyway. He's already going to help Hugo destroy it, because he already has the ultimate bargaining chip against him. There'd be no reason for Hugo to take Stahn as hostage too; it'd be redundant. So why not? Why not indulge while there's still time?

The only reasons I could think of for not doing so would be not wanting to have the inevitable fallout after Stahn learns what he's done, or a subconscious hope that Stahn will stop him if he's free.

(I ended up trying to write a oneshot about this. Key word "try".)

(Why do I keep saying Hugo when I know he's possessed? idk, it just feels more right to refer to him as Hugo when it's from the perspective of a character who currently doesn't know he's possessed.)

[frigid-moon-fall]

More sad thoughts about my fears for TOD2

I've been sad lately when I think about how Judas will spend all this time with and likely bond with these new people, but comparatively hardly got to spend any time with the original Destiny cast. And he likely won't get to spend much time with the survivors of the old cast either.

DC's manga adaptation, which came out quite a bit after TOD2, gives Marian an inner monologue when she's rescued by Stahn's party. It roughly translates to, "Watching them, it was like there was an empty space meant for a missing friend who couldn't make it. I very clearly felt it, that Leon was definitely a part of them." Directly afterward, she remembers Leon recounting his time with them, and how he looked at the palm that was used to shake hands with Stahn at their parting, with a big, sweet smile on his face. I take that to mean that Leon really should have belonged there among them. So when I think of most of his time being spent with TOD2's cast, I'm just… really sad.

I think the only way I might take it better is if he actually has trouble with it. If he's shown to feel awkward among these new people and maybe even try to keep his distance, in the way that one does when longing for an old friend group that you had finally grown comfortable and at-home with. If he also mourns for the time he didn't get to spend with his friends, even if he still hasn't grown to regret the choices that led to that time being short.

[frigid-moon-fall]

How warm do you think Leon would be in a relationship sense? To me, Proust showed that he has a lot of repressed passion in one way or another. His feelings on many different kinds of things are way stronger than he lets on with that guarded Cool Guy act.

So when it comes to relationships, do you think he'd be warm or cold? Let loose and indulge, or still keep a good amount of distance? Would it be because of that Cool Guy act, or because he's feeling uncomfortable from inexperience/lack of exposure?

I mean inexperience/lack of exposure as in the difficulty of acclimating to new things, not being ashamed because one doesn't know what they're doing. Like shying away from kisses not because you don't like kissing or don't want to kiss, but because it's still such a new sensation that it feels like too much and is maybe embarrassing.

Or maybe a lasting subconscious roadblock because something like romance just never seemed like an option in his life aside from Marian (who rejected him). Something inside still screams "You're not allowed to do this" or “Nobody will love you more than Marian does” and the walls go back up.

That’s kind of how I ended up writing him in most of my stuff. But after thinking about it...

All of that is using his interactions with the party during Director’s Cut as the basis and mixing in some from previous continuities. If using Proust only, he’d be... pretty dang warm. How very forward he was during the masquerade. That was with Marian (before rejection had the chance to happen), though, who we could say he’ll always act differently with (his most natural state is probably seen with Chal), but that same personality does seem to come through at the end.

I think I want to try writing a bit based on that. I feel like it’ll come across awkward or even out of character though since the good-boy Leon that he is with Marian isn’t so widely depicted outside of scenes with her.

[frigid-moon-fall]

Wanting to grow up quickly probably helped to hurt Leon's few relationships.

He can't be honest when he's focusing on being seen as mature. Even though he is pretty openly immature with Marian, it probably makes him hesitate a little or say something he doesn't mean even with her. A lot of thoughts and wants aren't okay to share because they're too childish--and he doesn't want to be seen as a child.

And they make a point of him having many childish traits, some of which are a little lost across the culture barrier. I wonder how many more he might have been hiding.

A lot of emotional needs for a lot of people go unmet because it doesn't feel like something they can ask for. It's not something that someone like them should ask for. "Someone like them" could be any kind of box that they think they belong in.

I know that sweets are the most obvious and comedically framed thing, but there's probably plenty of things in life that get treated the same as sweets for him. Things he'll deny himself if other people are watching because it doesn't fit the image he wants to project. Things he'll deny in any scenario because wanting something--anything--looks bad. It has to be insisted at him over and over and framed as something that someone else wants him to do so he has an excuse.

I'm kind of scared to talk about what that reminds me of exactly. It's something that you'll find is very very common (and in fact pretty rare to not be the case) in a specific type of media. It's something that's uncomfortable for audiences outside of the culture it was produced, and the reasoning for it being that way always has to be explained. I hate speaking so vaguely about it, but I don't think what crowd is left here is especially interested in it.

(Or, ignore all of that in favor of the aside in Tales of Fandom vol1 where apparently he's fine asking for frivolous things like imported eggs and sugar just for his flan lmao ridiculous little rich bastrd)

And, related to the previous post, I think that Marian herself has also unintentionally (and yet it was probably sadly inevitable) hurt his ability to bond with others.

He may also be close with Chaltier, and some continuities even place Leon as basically never having gone a day in his life without Chal being there. But Chaltier is still different. There's love there, but Marian is everything. She is every love to him, and she's been able to physically hold him through the worst of his youth.

And it's basically been drilled into him (at least in Proust's continuity, for sure) that nobody will ever love him like either of them do. Nobody will understand him like Chaltier does. Nobody will accept him wholly and unconditionally like Marian does. Even when that's demonstrably untrue with Stahn's unshakable belief in him.

It wouldn't surprise me if it was intentional on Mictlan's end. A real long con manipulation. It helped corner and put Leon right where he needed him to be, after all.

And in that, Chaltier and Marian are victims as well. They probably know that Leon putting that much value in them is hurting him in the long run, but can't really do anything to correct course. They've both tried. They've encouraged him to branch out and make more friends, to reach out to Rutee, and he fights it every step of the way. There is nothing that they can personally do to make him see that other people could care for him like they do. He has to be the one to take the blinders off and see and learn that for himself.

It's just a shame that he took them off just a few minutes too late.

tl;dr this kid's been spectacularly set up to fail from birth.

(Bonus: In Director's Cut where Marian finally has the chance to reject him, that could have gone incredibly poorly. We don't get to see the awkward aftermath that led up to them still being close and comfortable friends, but like, one wrong move could have probably cemented that mindset into "Not even Marian can love me" and isolate him further.)

[frigid-moon-fall]

I'm of the firm belief that had Leon directly survived and stayed with the group, he'd have attached himself to Stahn. His trust has been won. Instantly elevated to the same level of importance as Chal and Marian. If not then, then definitely after saving Marian.

But my shitty shipping heart would rather that saving Marian is when he realizes he's got Feelings.

Since he'd be there for when she's saved, they'd probably have a short talk, and Marian would still make her remarks about how close they are, but Leon would openly agree this time, and then Marian would go "Oh? Perhaps it's more. Oh, nevermind me," and leave in the escape pod. Hmm, though I wonder if Leon would leave with her just to make sure she got back to the manor safely. Stahn and co. would probably be fine with it. They'd go pick him back up not too much later. Or maybe that escorting back to Darilsheid would be when Marian would put the idea in his head. lol

[frigid-moon-fall]

Part of loneliness is not being heard, and sometimes you lean into it

A neglectful father whose praise he can't earn (simultaneously admirable and a hurdle)

An ever-present companion who acts as an echo chamber, reinforcing bad habits (that must be what friendship is like)

A caregiver whose kindness is distant (that must be what love is like)

People who only see a dazzling exterior (which must have truth to it if so many believe it)

People who treat him as a disposable child (impressive despite the faults he'll outgrow)

People who treat him as a disposable adult (he's still worth acknowledging)

[frigid-moon-fall]

I also revisited the start of Leon's Side.

One of Leon's first complaints is about people trying to get on his good side for their benefit, and it comes pretty soon after Chal missteps in one of his attempts to bolster Leon. The one where Chal badmouths Marian because she scolded Leon. The only difference between Chal and Walt's behavior is that Chal has nothing to gain from inflating Leon's ego. (I'd argue he (and Leon) only stand to lose by continuing to do so).

Of course, Leon's complaint isn't a hint at Chal about his behavior. Leon's so used to Chal always being in his corner that he doesn't even realize how excessive Chal is about it sometimes. But then how does he recognize selfish intent in that behavior in others? He doesn't. At all. He's so much dumber and simpler than he makes himself out to be. Because sure, while he is right about it a good chunk of the time, he's also gotten plenty of false positives (mainly in Stahn). It really is as simple as "everyone is untrustworthy except Chal & Marian".

[frigid-moon-fall]

The Stahn rant scene if it was a 2000's webcomic

Leon: And then he, he calls me his dear friend. That's. Haha. That's weird, right? Haha? Totally weird. He's so weird. Marian: You've told me this like 50 times over the past 3 months. You sure did have the time of your life with this Stahn guy, huh. Leon: OPPFLGTLPPTT NO-WUH. NUH-UH. I DIDN'T SAY THAT. Marian: I feel like you've been baiting me into saying it. Y'know, so that you didn't have to say it yourself. Leon: I have never done anything like that, ever! Marian: It's a key trait of yours.

[frigid-moon-fall]

Hmm... Tonight, I'm remembering the ice cream scene, where Stahn takes a third option.

I hope it was some kind of foreshadowing.

With every day closer that TOD2's patch gets, my anxiety grows.

I'll put this under a read-more, just in case. Again, I don't know what actually goes on in TOD2, but I know some contextless facts, and this is ranting about the possibilities regarding one of those facts. So like. Pseudo-spoilers?

So, I know some kind of time fuckery ends up happening. I almost avoided this spoiler. I could have been ignorant to it even with all these little Rays comics sort of almost referencing it. But I made the grave mistake of wanting to listen to every NORMAL battle theme of the series, and the track titles spoil it. :\

Anyway. I'm worried that the game is going to pull the trope that "some things are inevitable" or "necessary". That we'll be staring an important event like Leon's death (or Stahn's death? I don't know the truth about that yet) in the face, fully able to stop it, and someone's going to say no. Someone's going to say it needs to be this way.

And the name of the game is Tales of DESTINY. Leon's theme always has the word "fate" in it for every iteration. I get that. But I'm going back to Proust again. In Proust, Leon accepts that everything that's been happening to him is just his fate, and that it's not worth fighting it. But he sees everyone around him fighting what he considers their fate, and he admires that. In that continuity, he doesn't really get to fight what he considers his fate. He kind of does in the end where he really doesn't like the party's struggle against Mictlan being called fate, so much so that he actually revives to go help them. I think that's a ridiculous thing to write, even more ridiculous than the PSX game's literal zombie Leon. But I will accept with open arms the notion that he finally had the resolve to fight fate.

And now a left turn to Director's Cut, which gave us the line, "No matter how many times I'm reborn, I'll always make this choice." And that sounds damning, but it's also untrue. Yes, he always picks Marian above all else, but the way he gets there and the way he treats the party is different in most adaptations. In the original, he's regretful but goes out of his way to try and make the party angry enough to fight him with all they have, and continues even after he's lost. In the first manga, he's silent, sad, and does the bare minimum. In the original drama CD, he's all business and fights to the bitter end. In the second manga, he also intentionally angers the party, but would have accepted help after losing if not for the explosion cutting them off. In Director's Cut, he's silent but desperate, then sacrifices himself to get the party out. In Tales of the Rays, the situation he's put in perfectly mirrors the one he's in in Destiny proper. Marian is held hostage, he works for the villain with the promise that she'll be safe, and he fights Stahn for her sake. But he stands down and he accepts help in Rays. He's cornered again shortly after that, and he still chooses Stahn's side even when Marian's safety is no longer guaranteed. Stahn takes his place sacrificing himself in Rays, but Leon does come back for him and saves him, and they all get out together, and later they have a fully animated scene together, the two of them, about mutually helping each-other and having faith in each-other. I know Rays is like the furthest thing from canon, but it's still demonstrable proof that no, he will not always make the same choice, and his fate is not absolute. It does not have to be.

Now, back to Tales of Destiny 2 and its time travel and my fear for it. I'm scared that they'll insist some things need to happen, and that Judas will agree, or even be the one to say it, and I don't believe that that meshes with the arc that Leon's character should take. He really should be someone who has grown to fight the fate that he resented, and he can do so while saying the same words. He can say, "I'll always make the same choice", and forsake whatever assured path is laid out for them in favor of an unknown that he'll selfishly take and grasp. Whether that's letting himself be saved 18 years ago, or saving Stahn. He can do it selfishly, at the possible cost of everything, just like he did with Marian, just that this time he's placing faith in an unknown future instead of one he already knows is doomed whether he succeeds or fails.

That's how I believe it should go, and I am really scared that it's not even going to be a nuanced subversion of that, but literally the opposite of that. And the sad part is that they could have both, technically. He could fight fate, and the party fights him because they're the ones who believe in fate, and he'll lose and not get the chance to see if he could have changed things. And it could be infuriating for him and breed all kinds of resentment and self-loathing for not being strong enough.

UghhhhhHHHHHHH I HATE THIS. I'm getting mad at things that I don't even know about!! I don't want TOD2 to ruin my enjoyment the way so many sequels do. I don't want to let it, but it's not like I'll have a choice in how I feel about whatever happens. I can talk all I want about how canon doesn't matter and we're free to disregard it and make up whatever we want, but that doesn't mean I'll actually feel it strongly enough in my heart to keep delightedly splashing around in this tiny puddle of fandom.

I don't even want to tag this one, really.

[frigid-moon-fall]

"My Sister's Husband" cutting room floor + way more notes than are reasonable for such a crappy unpolished fic

If it wouldn't pad out the word count, I would have just posted it in the second chapter with the rest of the scraps. Not really room in the start/end notes for it.

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As an addendum to knowing how implausible the getting-lost-for-potentially-years premise is, I want to admit that I kind of combined that ice cream subevent with my own experiences getting lost in various videogames and in real life. I have gotten turned around in a straight corridor and thus gotten lost. I still need directions to places I've been going to for more than 20 years and I still end up lost sometimes. Idiots like me exist. It is not the largest leap to assume he's as bad as I am about sense of direction when he left the city and ended up on the other end of the continent looking for the ice candy stand. The more implausible part is how he managed a round trip in the span of like an hour!

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Leon the terrorist?

You see this tiny ass paragraph? It took me 3 hours to write it. WANNA KNOW WHY?

I originally had Leon being too scared to face Marian because he's done some heinous shit all for her sake, especially in Proust's continuity, and she might not be too happy about that. Like jeez Leon you expect me to still love you when you almost helped genocide the world for my sake even after I tried to kill myself so you wouldn't? The fuck outta here, boy.

But then I started thinking about it and while he'd be relieved to hear she was rescued, he'd probably be too worried about her current wellbeing (since the state of the manor would be a big unknown for him) to let his fear of (even more) rejection keep him from checking on her if nobody can confirm for him that she's fine. So I brainstormed with a friend for like 3 hours on what would happen to the estate and Oberon (I still don't know how things actually turn out in TOD2) and we came up with a bunch of different outcomes... But then I realized I did all that thinking for nothing because realistically Leon would be on the most wanted list.

... You know what, I think I'll have a whole separate post for this one, because while it's directly relevant to this fic, the shipping (which would keep people from seeing it) is irrelevant to the journey I went on here and I think it's interesting to just think about things like this.

Heck, I'll make two.

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On Rutee and Leon bonding

In Proust, Leon has way more feelings about Rutee and feels like he can't ask to be family because he's too tainted. In the end when he's reflecting on his life, he pretty much does a 180 in how he wants to treat Rutee. He becomes a good caring widdle brother who calls her neesan without prompting. Combine that with Tales Ring Archive, where Rutee is willing to frickin' kill herself to bring Leon back so he can have a chance at happiness, and I believe these two really, really want that chance to be a close family. They just don't know how.

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On Leon not noticing Stahn and Rutee are married

Stahn shows no interest in Rutee until after Leon is dead. Players may see their hookup coming because of the sinkhole scene, but I don't think the characters themselves would. Heck, Rutee didn't even intend to say goodbye to anyone in Darilsheid and explicitly told Stahn she didn't expect to ever see him again and not to come see her. With Stahn and Rutee not having any semblance of a close bond when Leon was around to see it, there's no reason for him to assume they got really close. But they're living together in Rutee's hometown…? Well, Leon does tend to get tunnel vision. He hasn't picked up on Marian rejecting his advances in any of the retellings of the story that he's made them. He sees what he wants to see until he's hit with reality.

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On Leon making himself scarce

Since he was originally kinda just couch surfing at their place before I remembered he's a criminal, he was originally going to pick up odd jobs in town to get travel funds and it'd be difficult to avoid Stahn and Rutee since the jobs took him all over town during the day. Now it's even harder to avoid them!

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On the lent clothes

They probably offered to get him some clothes of his own, but he brushed it off because he's still got his own clothes at the manor and a stopgap would be a waste of money (but actually he just doesn't want them to have to spend more of their money on him). So they'd give him free pick of their clothes to wear for now. And he was probably really upset to find that Rutee's clothes fit better and were pretty much his only option for bottoms at least. (Did you know? Based on the towel sprites, Rutee is bulkier than Leon in every visible area.) Stahn's pants are all baggy on Stahn himself, so Leon would look like a little homeless child trying to wear them, and we all know he hates being seen as a child. He's lucky that Rutee mostly does pants.

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On finding the cape

Another that I made a separate post for!

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I almost gave Leon another sad paragraph here about Chal but it broke the pacing too much.

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Before settling on the hiding-out angle, Stahn was originally trying to convince Leon to stay with them, both because he just wanted Leon around, and because he could see that Leon was feeling unwelcome ever since finding out about the marriage, so he was trying his best to show Leon he wasn't unwanted.

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On Marian calling Leon out

I still haven't been able to find the scene in any pachislot footage, but it's on the DVD. The animated rendition of the scene where Marian observes how much Leon enjoyed traveling with Stahn. You know. The one where instead of getting a little flustered, his eyes nearly pop out of his skull, his jaw drops wide open, he blushes, and has to get up and walk away to hide his face. Yeah I'm forever using that version of the scene. I like to think Marian's inner dialogue then was "Oh yeah. This is what the kids call 'being down bad'."

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Oh Stahn. Unintentionally causing so much turmoil. I think he's the type to not think about labels beyond friendship all that much, so he'd probably also call Rutee his best friend after getting married, without the qualifier "She's my wife and my best friend". Or maybe it's subconscious and the foundation of their bond—their friendship—is more immediately important to him, and everything else is just extra. More like "She's my best friend!" "Isn't she your wife?" "Oh, I guess she's my wife, too, yeah."

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I feel like I fucked this paragraph up but I don't know how to make it better.

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Some of the other notes from this are going to get repurposed for a drabble collection because they feel more fitting over there.

[frigid-moon-fall]

So, for a fic, I needed to figure out what the state of the Gilchrist estate would be after the game, in the context of "Does Marian still have a roof over her head?" And I still don't know what happens in TOD2 (and do not wish to find out before playing it), so I don't have any canon to help me on this. But unwaveringblade said TOD2 doesn't really go into detail about it either so maybe the fans have put more thought into it than the actual writers lol

So I brainstormed with a friend for like 3 hours and we came up with a bunch of different outcomes like if an odd distant family member like a cousin or in-laws could inherit it, or if Rutee could prove her relation to Hugo and claim inheritance, or if Mictlan filed a new will to disinherit everything from everyone just to be a shithead… (or if Leon could possibly still claim any inheritance if he came crawling out of the ocean after miraculously surviving all on his own)

The state could just reclaim the land to use for something else. It could end up being auctioned off. Then someone new owns the manor and they could either fire all the staff and Marian needs to figure out what she's going to do or has already been forced to move on, or they keep the staff and maybe aren't great to them and Marian's not having a good time. Or Rutee claims it. Then she either lives there and does something?? to keep it going, sells it to someone who will treat Marian well (and leave Leon's shit alone for her since the whole reason she wants to stay at the manor is to keep things ready for Leon if he rises from the dead (Proust))…. or she swings her helped-save-the-world cred around to get it turned into a state-funded orphanage, then hands the deed to Marian and says have a nice life being a forever mama bird since your last baby fell out of the nest and drowned. I was going to settle on that one!

But she'd also probably inherit Oberon and whatever family fortune there was at that point. I don't think Mictlan was running the gig with the future in mind, so he probably didn't do a whole lot of saving. Y'know, just set aside a generous emergency safety net and put the rest into bribes and I guess back into the company. And Oberon was already in the shitter by the time she'd inherit it, and she'd probably be smart enough to see it's a sinking ship, so she'd sell everything about it for as much as she could and bail, then set all that money aside as emergency funds for either the Cresta or new Darilsheid orphanages in case state funding isn't enough one year or it gets cut like she's probably used to happening.

tbh I'm going to be so disappointed if there isn't at least some political intrigue in TOD2 lol