#first ferengi is starfleet

[dragontamerno3]

DS9 S3 E14 - Heart of Stone

I really liked this episode. I admit that the Kira and Odo part of this episode started out very slow, got interesting, made me upset and then was boring again but parts that were interesting made up for the rest of their parts. It was Nog's storyline, though that I fucking loved.

Starting with the Kira/Odo stuff. It was an awkward and boring start to me because Odo hadn't gone 2 feet before Kira was suddenly trapped in something. I had wondered at one point if there was some kind of shape shifter situation going on in the cave, like the crystal taking over Kira, but I didn't imagine Kira herself was a Changeling given how hard it is for Odo to copy faces so I mostly ignored that thought.

I enjoyed the bonding they seemed to be having and how Odo was trying his best to keep Kira calm/entertained. I especially thought his story about how he got his name was sad but sweet. What I didn't like was his confession and how Kira seemed to admit the same in the immediate episode right after Bareil died. It was ultimately not her, so that part is fine, but it ended up being just the Dominion hanging around to monologue at him and I was bored again.

Nog, though! I love him.

The scene where he asks to be Sisko's apprentice? He was so damn proud of himself! I felt so bad for him when everyone who was looped in on this doubted him. Nog has caused some trouble and isn't exactly the first person to come to mind as Sisko said, but the *instant* doubt that he could ever make it in Starfleet was sad. It hit home in some ways when adults/authority figures in my life have told me similar things, and showed certain doubts about how far I'd go. I was on team Nog the whole way.

And the moment he breaks down in Sisko's office to explain how he wants to do more with his life so he doesn't end up like his dad? I just wanted to hug him.

My favorite moment, though, was how Rom became his number one cheerleader the second he broke his news. How Rom stood up again Quark and told him to fuck off because Nog can do what he wants. He's not the best dad but he's trying and I love him for it.

7/10 - think it would have been an 8 but the Kira/Odo stuff was sloppy

[tongowheel]

NEW FERENGI TIMELINE — combining elements from this post && this post, since @constablegoo && i have since changed the pacing of things.

2363-2369 — the events of "the kind of thing that could be"

2368 — giax && siraba flee ferenginar && stow away on the enterprise-d.

2369 — the federation takes over terok nor. quark is blackmailed into staying on the station. dr. reyga's studies on metaphasic shielding are tested on board the enterprise. after a near-death event, his hypothesis is proven plausible && he goes on to do great things with his research. he invites siraba && giax to travel with him; they decline due to safety concerns but remain in touch,

2370 — pel arrives on ds9 after leaving ferenginar. they subsequently depart for the gamma quadrant.

2371 — nog applies to starfleet academy

2372 — nog starts at starfleet academy. giax && siraba arrive on ds9, seeking federation asylum.

2373 — nog does his second year field study on ds9

2374 — nog is given a field commission of ensign, two years early. pel returns to ds9 briefly during the events of "profit and lace" (as chronicled here).

2375 —  nog is promoted to lieutenant jr. grade, following the end of the dominion war. rom becomes grand nagus. odo leaves ds9 to rejoin the link for six months. following his return, he && quark only see each other a handful of times, as their responsibilities keep them busy. siraba, while away on an exchange with denobulan scientists, first meets @zeveth. the two later begin working together, somewhat begrudgingly, on a cure for the jem'hadar's reliance on ketracel-white once zeveth takes refuge on ds9.

2376 — nog returns to san francisco for an honorary graduation with the rest of his class. quark is offered a job managing branches of a ferengi-operated casino around the alpha quadrant. he considers going, but realizes he doesn't want to leave. quark && odo admit in their own way to feelings they have been harboring on && off for years. there's an almost-unspoken agreement to the start of a relationship, one that they don't rush, && don't put a name to for a while. siraba && zeveth also start dating around this time.

2377 — nog is promoted to a full lieutenant

2380 — nog becomes the assistant chief engineer of ds9

2381 — nog is promoted to lieutenant commander

2384 — nog becomes the chief engineer of ds9

2385 — nog formally switches to the command track && promoted to commander. quark begins opening chain locations of his bar across the galaxy, traveling when necessary, but keeping ds9 as his home base. 

2386 — qelet is assimilated by the borg.

2387 — qelet's reclamation process takes place between ohniaka iii && ferenginar.

2388 — qelet enters starfleet academy, sponsored by nog.

2390 — nog is promoted to captain, is sent on a 1-year exploratory && diplomatic mission to the gamma quadrant. quark opens a branch of his bar on freecloud, && decides to move there with odo.

2391 — jake && nog get engaged.

2392 — quark and odo take in an orphaned [bajoran] child. jake and nog get married

2393 — odo proposes, && they get married themselves. qelet graduates starfleet academy && is stationed on ds9.

2453 — on his 100th birthday, nog retires from active starfleet service after a long and distinguished career. he becomes the official federation ambassador to ferenginar, a role in which he serves until his death (which is not for a while. he lives a long time, close if not up to the upper limit for ferengi, which is 300 years).

2475 — grand nagus rom retires, && is succeeded by his granddaughter ishka ii

2483 — quark and odo have been living on freecloud for over 90 years. in that time, they’ve adopted and raised a number of children, and quark has come into quite a large amount of money and power. keeping his chain of bars open, he and odo leave freecloud and “retire” to ds9, where they open a small cafe together (yes, together.) it’s called QUARK (& odo)’s because they’re very original lmao.

2550 — quark retires for real, and he and odo go to ferenginar where they stay until quark’s death (probably around 2580-2590).

3186 — iba is assigned to the uss nog, an 80% ferengi starfleet ship, as a science officer.

3187 — iba makes contact with odo, who is living alone on ferenginar, seeking his assistance.

3189 — iba is transferred to the uss discovery.

[trip-tuckers-hyperspanner]

do you have a favorite ferengi besides quark?

Rom 100,000%

[bernese-mountain-dyke]

I just know ferengi math teachers must be some of the most incredible teachers in the Star Trek universe cuz like. A ferengi who’s bad at math is so fucked

[demilypyro]

Thinking about Nog from star trek who is the first ferengi to join Starfleet and live among humans and who goes like totally native (eats human food, isn't a capitalist, respects women, etc)

Do you think when he meets ferengi women after that they consider him a weird freak

[cardassian-bird-of-prey]

Hi there! 

Greetings from the first Ferengi to join Starfleet! 

Suisei

[lizardsfromspace]

People use the fact that characters on DS9 pay for things at Quark's as a gotcha proving Star Trek is secretly capitalist when like. First of all, DS9 leaned way more into the idea of the Federation not having money than the others, not just in all the Ferengi subplots but also having a whole episode where Jake has to find a roundabout way to get a baseball card bc he doesn't use money.

But also DS9...can't really be used to prove anything about the Federation because it's not in the Federation? DS9 is a Bajoran space station in Bajoran space run by Starfleet, something happening on Deep Space Nine the station doesn't imply anything clearly about what it'd be like on a space station inside the Federation. Also "Starfleet pays the crew some latinum bc it's not a Federation station" is a more plausible explanation than "actually, the entity we've been told dozens of times has no money or profit motive secretly does"

[pinesource]

Steve Yockey, co-creator of the Max series “The Flight Attendant,” is joining Starfleet as the new screenwriter for “Star Trek 4.”

Story details remain under a powerful cloaking device, but Paramount Pictures and Bad Robot still intend the project to be the final chapter for the cast that rebooted the franchise in movie theaters with 2009’s “Star Trek,” including Chris Pine (as Capt. James T. Kirk), Zachary Quinto (as Cmdr. Spock), Zoe Saldaña (as Lt. Nyota Uhura), Karl Urban (as Dr. Leonard McCoy), John Cho (as Lt. Hikaru Sulu) and Simon Pegg (as chief engineer Montgomery Scott). (Variety first reported the news in its cover story on the future of the “Star Trek” franchise.)

Bringing the cast back following 2016’s “Star Trek Beyond” has proven trickier for the studio than finding an altruistic Ferengi. At least three previous attempts fell apart for various reasons, most recently with director Matt Shakman (“WandaVision”) and screenwriters Lindsey Beer (“Sierra Burgess Is a Loser”) and Geneva Robertson-Dworet (“Captain Marvel”) that the studio had slated to open in late 2023. When Shakman left the film in 2022 to direct “The Fantastic Four” for Marvel Studios, however, Paramount pulled it from its slate and sent it back to spacedock.

[thethirdromana]

The Section 31 thing (which, in fairness, I will probably still watch) is making me think of all the other stories I'd prefer Star Trek to tell.

The Only Human - We've seen a handful of aliens on ships that are mostly crewed by humans. I'd love to see a human adapting to a ship that's mostly aliens, and how they adapt to their culture.

On the Edge of the Federation - I'd like more of an insight into the fringes of the Federation. Let's see what happens on some barely crewed outpost in the middle of nowhere, where it takes days to even get a message from HQ. What happens when they encounter the kinds of challenges that the Enterprise does, but with only duct tape and optimism to try to tackle them?

The Space Wing - How about a look at the politics of the Federation? How do you even govern such a vast and diverse group of people? Star Trek has told us next to nothing about this so far; there's a huge amount to explore.

Starfleet Intelligence - A Starfleet Intelligence series would offer all of the spy drama, none of the Section 31 fetishisation of amorality. I would also watch the fuck out of a show about the intelligence agents tasked with rooting out Section 31 agents from within the Starfleet system. (Maybe this will be the show we get? But I doubt it). I'd similarly enjoy way more the idea of a show about an inherently dodgy business - espionage - and how that might be done in a way that upholds the principles of the Federation.

The Outsider - I'd like a standard Star Trek series with a starship setting, but where the captain is an obvious outsider. If Aron Eisenberg were still alive then this would have to be the adventures of Nog, Starfleet's first Ferengi captain.

Federation Diplomatic Corps - Federation diplomacy is a career that contains both Sarek and Lwaxana Troi. That's amazing. Give me a whole series of these people's machinations in their assorted fabulous robes.

[lostyesterday]

One of my favorite types of relationships in Star Trek are close friendships between characters who are in certain ways exact opposites but who nonetheless get along really well and have found strong common ground on which to base their relationship. Some examples:

Data and Deanna: Opposite relationships to emotion and opposite methods of attempting to understand/connect with other people. Deanna literally senses other people’s emotions and is about as intimately connected with emotion as a person can be, while Data believes he has no emotions and has difficulty understanding the emotional states of others. Despite this, they get along really well and greatly respect each other’s perspective. Part of the reason is potentially because both characters have a strong drive to reach out to and connect with other people, even if their starting points for this goal and their methods of attempting to accomplish it are very different.

Kira and Jadzia: Opposite in a lot of ways, but particularly in terms of their relationships to religion and other elements of their respective cultures. Religion and other aspects of Bajoran culture are deeply central to Kira’s identity and understanding of the world, whereas Jadzia couldn’t care less about religion and has an ambivalent relationship with her own culture. Sometimes, she rebels against it or seems to turn away from it in favor of seeking connections with other cultures (such as Klingon or Ferengi culture). They also have opposite personalities in many ways – such as their opposite approaches to leisure with Kira unable to relate to Jadzia’s ways of enjoying herself. Yet despite these major differences in ideology and approach to life, the two of them spend a lot of time together and are close friends. Maybe this is partially because one thing they do both have in common is a sort of open-mindedness about difference – an acceptance of a difference of perspective as it is without truly resolving it. (Up to a point, of course, especially in Kira’s case, but I do think that the fact that both of them have several close friendships with characters with whom they disagree on a large number of topics indicates that they share this open-mindedness).

Jake and Nog: Opposite life trajectories. They come from very different cultures and are introduced to the audience in opposite ways (as a well-behaved child vs. a petty criminal), but the strength of their connection is immediate and enduring despite all the barriers put between them. What makes the contrast between them extra interesting is how Nog is the one to become a Starfleet officer, and how the contrast between their personalities in later seasons (Nog being rigid and organized while Jake is more relaxed and disorganized) is very much not what you’d expect when you first meet their characters in season 1.

Harry and B’Elanna: Opposite relationships to/histories with Starfleet. Harry is the golden boy – the young prodigy with a bright future who represents the very best of Starfleet and can (supposedly) do no wrong. B’Elanna seemingly failed Starfleet and was failed by Starfleet in every sense. She couldn’t make it through the Academy because she felt like she couldn’t belong there – because she was made to feel that way throughout her life. And yet it’s within Starfleet (at least the make-shift Starfleet on Voyager) that the two of them connect and become friends. And maybe in some ways that’s because you don’t need to go far below the surface to see cracks in Harry’s supposed Starfleet perfection, and also because it takes only the promise of belief and support from a few (including Harry) for B’Elanna to reforge her connection with Starfleet.

Mariner and Boimler: Opposite personalities in basically every way (at least initially). Mariner is bold, rebellious, and reckless while Boimler is a cautious obsessive rule-follower. They approach basically every situation in opposite ways, and yet they are inseparable best friends. It’s interesting to see them both become a little more like each other over time, and maybe that trajectory is partly why they’re so close.

Interestingly, in some of these cases, what initially seems to be a great difference between two characters actually becomes a source of common ground between them – a contrast becomes a parallel. I find this kind of connection between characters who might in theory be opposed to each other very compelling. In a way, characters being best friends despite being really different gets to the heart of what Star Trek, at its best, is about.

[eclecticbasementenemy]

The Jake Sisko/nog parallels make me go fucking insane give me a couple more days and I'll write it out fully but something about how Benjamin Sisko spent so long suspicious of Nog as a bad influence and then his son was the one that told him he didn't really know what he wanted but he didn't wanna be in Starfleet and then Nog came marching into his office and said I WILL be joining Starfleet, i dont care what it takes i dont care that im defying my family my people the creed ive lived my whole life by i dont care im the first ferengi to ever even try to join i want to DO something i want to BE something i will not waste my life and my talents to follow the prescribed path like my father did and you WILL help me get into Starfleet whatever it takes to prove myself to you I will do it.

Do you think Benjamin Sisko ever saw the irony.

[kitkatt0430]

Quark doesn't have any children of his own (goodness knows he'd be paying out the nose for child support if he did) but he helped raise Nog. In a lot of ways, Nog is very much his kid.

When Quark was a kid, his father wasn't a good businessman. We learn over the course of the show that he's a lot more like his mother. She's brilliant with managing finances and gaining profit. Rom is much more like their father and for that reason Quark initially keeps him on a short leash. Rom's already been screwed over by his first wife and Quark feels like he has to protect his brother, even as he also tries to be a good ferengi by exploiting him.

Nog, raised with his father and uncle as his primary guardians, is acutely aware that his father has no real business sense. And while Nog is his father's son in many ways... he's also Quark's son. I doubt Quark would appreciate thinking it's his influence on Nog that leads him to join Starfleet, but Nog does inherit his uncle's intelligence and realizes that while he doesn't want the same life his father has... he doesn't want the life Quark has, either. Chasing profit and having it never be truly fulfilling enough. Nog's smart enough to figure out what he wants his own path to be, however, and he applies the lessons of their culture in ways that might not gain Quark's approval but does often gain his respect. (And inspires his father to eventually chart his own path too.)

Quark may never outright say it, but the way he feels at heart is pretty clearly that Nog is his kid too; we see him act parental, concerned... perhaps treating Nog at times the same way Ishka treated Quark and Rom when they were younger. Quark takes an interest in Nog's schooling when he's young and while he thinks Starfleet Academy is a mistake, still takes pride in being part of Nog's send off. Quark often 'mothers' Nog; I'm not really sure how else to put the way Quark will hover over Nog when he worries about his nephew, but it's definitely behavior Quark learned from his own mother. And when Nog is injured so badly during the war that he loses his leg, Quark nurses his nephew and even sets aside his own ideals to pick up a weapon in defense of them both from the attacking jem'hadar.

Every time I watch this show I think I come to love the way Quark, Rom, and Nog grow and change as a family over the course of the years a little more.

[tongowheel]

@zeveth as viwilath: "May I accompany you?"

he stills outside the airlock, turning on his heel to look at viwilath seriously. she's taller than him, significantly so, but he exudes an air of confidence that makes him look bigger, && older too.

still, none of that masks the surprise on his face at the request.

"are you... sure?" nog frowns slightly, stepping off to the side to allow a few of his crew to pass him && board. "i don't have a problem with a passenger, i really don't, but... are you sure that traveling in the gamma quadrant is a good idea? i can't in good conscience put you at risk. you're a civilian, && more importantly a federation protective ward. but if you return to dominion space of your own volition, that asylum is voided while you're there, even if you stay on the ship."

with a small sigh, nog shakes his head. "that said, i understand the desire to see your home again, even from a distance. so i'll ask again. are you sure?"

[stra-tek]

More Roddenberry Archive musings...

This is supposedly the launch configuration of the Prime universe U.S.S. Enterprise NCC-1701's main bridge. It's based on the first piece of concept art for the TOS set, and is one of several weird not-quite-canon things the Roddenberry Archive has decided to consider canonical. 2 command chairs and the whole centre console and chairs spins to face the very minimalist 60's scifi perimeter consoles or viewscreen. Try to imagine Captain April and first officer Chris Pike on this bridge, it's weird.

Behold! The top of the Jeffries Tube.

FERENGI ATM MACHINE ON THE PROMENADE!!!!

The view from OG Captain Pike's bed, featuring his awesome TV, his laser gun and his Starfleet hat. We wouldn't get hats back in Trek for 50 years.

This is inside the Ringship Enterprise XCV-330, circa 2100. The Ringship in canon was seen only in picture form or a desktop model, we never saw inside. The ship was actually designed for a non-Trek Roddenberry scifi show called Starship which never came to be, and there was actually concept art made for the interior which the RA people decided to import to Trek too. Predating the transporter, here is the Metafier.

Discovery Season 2's U.S.S. Enterprise has a cool corridor running around it. Walk around it and... it goes nowhere😂 the Archive tries to balance the reality of everything being a television show with the fantasy of a 100% accurate in-universe museum, it'll give sets ceilings to make them into a believable spaceship but doesn't want to go nuts inventing too much of it's own stuff and that sometimes leads to weird stuff like this dead end

Speaking of ceilings, here's the ceiling and lights of the classic TOS Enterprise's corridors. I think they did a decent job keeping to the TOS aesthetic. The sets TOS was filmed on didn't have ceilings at all.

The Enterprise-B actually had a red carpet for special guests Kirk, Scotty and Chekov

Strange New Worlds has the coolest transporter room of all. Just look at it😍

The TNG Enterprise battle bridge has it's own ready room! And it's super tiny, ultra cramped and Picard probably never used it because there's no replicator in there and thus no access to tea.

The 1st version of TNG engineering's big Master Systems Display as seen in "Encounter at Farpoint". Ten Forward wouldn't be a thing until season 2, and you can see here an earlier deck layout and the original concept for the saucer rim, a corridor walkway with windows above and below. You'll also note Ten Forward would actually be on deck 11 had they not changed the diagram by then.

Kirk's quarters on the TOS Enterprise has dresser drawers full of uniforms for when his gets torn

Walking around the Roddenberry Archive ships is eerie as hell. You're the only one on board, exploring corridors and poking your head into rooms. These starships are liminal spaces. This for me adds to the atmosphere greatly.

Here's the link (enjoy before it vanishes again!):

Roddenberry.x.io

Here's my original post about the Roddenberry Archive:

Also a clarification, I was wrong when I said it won't be in VR. There is one VR setup it was designed for - the $3,000 Apple Vision Pro. More details here, although it appears to only show a 2D window rather than be fully immersive 3D, possibly confirming what I was told previously that no current 3D setup is capable of doing a true VR experience:

[sirellas]

post canon ds9 fic i won't write for real, in bullet points:

story starts with jake sisko, pondering and writing. he got a commission from some federation news service to do a fluff piece on "the soul of the klingon people" now that the war is over and they have a new chancellor, essentially a "look federation people, klingons are still chill. maybe chiller, even. so everybody be cool" deal (i'm imagining they have to do an article like this for every group of aliens that were a major combatant in the war) but jake takes it seriously and refuses to phone it in.

first he goes to alexander, who's visiting the station while between KDF assignments or something idk. but he says look buddy i wanna know what's up with klingons, you get me? alexander does not get him and also would like to know what's up with klingons, so he says hell yeah human friend let's figure this out.

then it becomes a series of vignettes of these two kind of out of touch young people learning about the klingon spirit and also themselves as they seek out someone who can tell them the secrets of life and honor etc etc. jake has a warped sense of normal from growing up on ds9 and alexander has never felt right in solely klingon or human spaces, so they have some gaps in their knowledge to fill.

i'm thinking they start with worf and martok, who are busy on qo'nos building their credibility and new government. worf isn't great at talking about feelings and martok's being pulled in a lot of different directions, so they're not much help. hanging around on qo'nos is interesting, but ultimately not what jake and alexander are looking for either.

then they start thinking outside the box. order isn't important but they start hitting up all relevant klingons and klingon adjacent folk: darok, sirella, ezri, nikolai, kurn, maybe a duras sisters cameo for equal representation of shitty klingons.

last we saw of kurn of course he had lost his memory but since this is my fic i'm not writing i'm gonna say bashir's not as great at brain reconfiguration as he thinks he is and it didn't take fully. so he's a little confused but getting the hang of it. a lot of "which one of you is my nephew again? i can't tell humans apart" kind of deal even though alexander is 3/4 klingon. he tells them what he's re-learned about klingons since he's been rebuilding his own identity.

nikolai also was essentially exiled but it's fine. he's got a gaggle of kids now and alexander and jake have to do the fake forehead thing to blend in while they talk to him. nikolai's got a lot of insight into worf as a brother but not much on klingons as a whole. alexander brings him some pierogi helena made.

alexander: "wow my foster uncle's wife looks a lot like your stepmom, isn't that funny?" jake: "nah i don't see the resemblance"

maybe at this point nog joins them because he's having his own identity crisis as the only ferengi in starfleet so he decides to just hop on board for jake and alexander's identity crisis.

they go see jeremy aster too, the kid from tng who became worf's brother through a whole thing, and he's got a pretty interesting view of klingons and the klingon spirit from an outsider/insider perspective.

sirella and darok are probably the least helpful but i think sirella baby-ing alexander would be fun. they're both trying to deny it and deny how much they like the attention (sirella at having a new-ish nephew-ish and one who wasn't raised klingon so she can do all the classic klingon things with him fresh, and alexander at having a(nother) mother figure to love him). jake is studiously taking notes in the corner while sirella tries to teach him how to skin a fresh kill or something like that.

anyway this whole journey ends with them finding kahless 2 (the clone of kahless) whose only occupation is thinking about the klingon spirit. but his wisdom boils down to "everyone's different and everyone has to figure shit out on their own, but together we can strive to be greater than yesterday" etc etc and jake gets his article. alexander reaffirms his grasp on his cultural identity and also gets to see a lot of his family so he's reminded that he's loved, even if everyone is doing their own thing. and nog develops a huge crush on sirella. everybody's happy.

[writergeekrhw]

Hi! So I'm currently watching DS9 for the first time (got into Star Trek not long ago) and from what ppl used to talk I thought O'Brien was... nicer? Like one thing I was surprised about was O'Brien brash nature. Like I wouldn't say rude or mean exactly but he seems pretty xenophobic to me? Intolerant? I'm saying this after watching the episode "Hippocratic Oath". At first I thought his distaste/lack of trust for Cardassians, Ferengi, etc. We're bc their past crimes or devious behaviors which honestly fair, but in Hippocratic Oath Julian had such a good opportunity to save those Jem'Hadar, to turn tables against the Dominion, break the subjugation they were imposed, but not a moment did O'Brien give that chance to the Jem'Hadar or Julian. Am I missing something I'll see in the future episodes? Is there's something more on his past that made him like this? Being a Starfleet officer i must say i expected a more open mind ngl so I'm a but disappointed. Maybe his character is just like that which is fine too is just something that has me confused. If you could shed some light for this new trekkie I'd appreciated it! :)))

And sorry for the long rant and in case something isnt eloquent i apologize since english is not my first language 😅 again ty!

O'Brien can definitely be a bit parochial, especially when it comes to "enemy" aliens. In his defense, he's a veteran of the Cardassian Wars though, and he had it pretty rough, so his tendency toward xenophobia it probably a reflection of his past traumas. Star Trek characters are, on the average, better about this than humans in our day, but O'Brien and Bones, for example, are probably on the lower end of alien tolerance.

That said, O'Brien has no issues with Dax or Odo or even Worf, which makes me think his struggle to empathize with aliens is limited to the ones he has had to fight as enemies without the chance to get to know them as individuals. That's why he has more issues with the Cardassians (especially), the Ferengi, and the Jem'Hadar than the Klingons (he's known Worf a long time), the Trill, Vulcans, Romulans, etc. etc.

For us, O'Brien was the most "human" of our characters, warts and all. At least that's the way I wrote him.