#exmormons please dont interact

[relatablemormonmoments]

All a god is is what we make them to be. You present me with a hateful and vindictive god who damns his own creations? I return you a loving father who genuinely cares for every little thing he has breathed even an ounce of life into.

[mini-e]

Mormonism is a cult and every one of it's member's are either abusive, extremely naive, or both and that's the tea

[demoisverysexy]

I’m sorry queerstake suckered you in and made you so deep in denial. The church is actively hurting you please leave it so you can be yourself and not constantly put down by leaders you look up to.

I know losing your faith is hard, but staying will be so much harder I promise. Life is good and worth living, and the church doesn’t care about you. I love you. I hope you realize this.

I have some Thoughts on this ask, but I imagine most people reading this will see the problems inherent to the ask itself. Anyways:

Hi. I'm Demo. I'm a queer left-leaning Mormon. I'm okay with that. I've mostly made my peace woth the particulars of what that entails. It's not easy, but I'm an adult and I have a group of supportive people around me who love and care about me and are there to help me through it, Mormon or not. I have a partner. I have a therapist. I have friends. And Mormon related angst is not actually the majority of what I deal with, believe it or not. But that is what we are talking about today.

I have a feeling from this ask that you are most likely an exmormon, and I think thats the case for a few reasons. First of all, you are familiar with queerstake, which you wouldnt be unless you are familiar with Mormon tumblr. Secondly, things you said about losing faith imply to me that you have yourself gone through the process of losing your religion and leaving the church. And third, I recently made a post criticizing exmormons, which you can find if you look at my mormonism tag, or here. Its not the first time I have criticized exmos. It wont be the last either, probably.

I can understand some of where you might be coming from in your concern for my wellbeing. You are probably yourself queer, and likely left-leaning. You have been hurt by the church in some way, as pretty much every queer mormon has. Maybe you dealt with some experiences far worse than anything I have gone through. That is probably the case. My experience with Mormonism is quite tame in many aspects, though looking back there are some experiences that no doubt gave me religious trauma. Even so. Many have had it far worse than me. You, looking back on your history of pain and hurt associated with the church, and reflecting on how leaving was beneficial to your health and growth, probably want what is best for me too. Perhaps that is what you are thinking. I cant know for sure, and I cant ask for your thoughts directly, as you are on anon. But we can speculate.

The problem, though, is that you are assuming that your experience is universal to all queer Mormons, and that you know what is best for me. That is obvious from your language. More, you are insinuating that I have been duped somehow, as though I am a hapless, foolish victim of evil queer mormons. A poor repressed queer, blinded by mormonism into foolishness and stupidity. I am exaggerating, of course, but not much. I feel that even if I hyperbolize here, this is your intent.

A few points in response to this, then:

1: I am an adult. I am not an idiot. I have not been duped. I was the one who went out of my way to reach out to queerstake, not the other way around. More, I mostly interact with them tangentially, not directly. Look at my blog: a majority of it is furry art, then a lot of shitposting, and the rest is equal parts me talking about left-wing stuff and mormonism. Its probably fair to say that I am somewhat well known for my mormon takes within mormon tumblr (maybe? I dont know what people's read on how well known I am is but I think tumblr mormons and exmos are familiar with who I am at least) but mormon stuff doesnt dominate my time on tumblr. That's besides the point though, because at the end of the day, in acting like I'm being used by the rest of queerstake, you are diminishing my autonomy: you are insinuating that I dont have agency here, that I am just being dragged around by the scawy queer mormon cultists. Even if I am a queer mormon cultist, at least give me credit. queerstake forced nothing upon me. I chose it for myself.

2: Your experiences are not universal. Everyone has a different threshold for what they can tolerate. And not everyone has had as bad of an experience with the church as you. And some people can reconcile more easily the clash between their beliefs and experiences with the doctrines of the church. That is fine. This is not to shame you for leaving the church. In all likelihood, it was the correct decision for you. I will not take that away from you. Just because I criticize exmos does not mean that I am against people leaving the church if that is what is right for them (in fact, I think there is a distinction between being exmo and post-mormon, but again, not relevant here). But what I am saying is that your experience with the church is not the only experience. You are not the only authority on what it means to be queer and mormon. This is part of what bothers me about when exmos say "as an exmo," to imply that they are authorities on what it means to be mormon. Its not true. And if anything, the insistence that you are the Only Valid Perspective, in this instance, makes you less of an authority on What it Means to be Mormon.

3: Related to the above: you don't know me. You don't know what I have been theough, or what is best for me. And it seems like from your ask, you are projecting a lot of your own needs and desires and insecurities onto me. Worse, you didnt bother to ask me what I want. You didn't even try to get to know who I am as a person, what I have been through. Empathy and compassion begin with understanding, and in refusing to understand me, you are incapable of helping me in a way that matters. It turns instead into a sort of self congratulatory pity, where you can feel good about How Bad You Feel For the Poor Deluded Mormons. It is highly insulting. This leads neatly into my next point:

4: I do not want your pity. In fact I hate it. There is a common thing that ex and antimormons do, where when they want to be "sympathetic" to the poor deluded cult members they pity them. It doesnt help though, because it is highly infantilizing, and, as I have already said, more indicative of the urge to congratulate yourself for having the Correct Feelings of Sympathy, as opposed to actually reaching out to give the help I want and need. I do not want people pitying me, looking at me and feeling badly for how mistreated I am. I want allies! I want people willing to hear about my struggles and understand them, and who are willing to help me if I need it! Pity doesn't help me. It helps you, and not in a good way. And when you pity me, you are not pitying me, the person, but me, the idea. Help me. Listen to me. Understand who I am, and why I am here, and what I want. Grieve with me. But do not give me your pity. I don't want it.

5: The church doesnt care about you is not the comfort you think it is. I know the church hates queer people. I am under no illusions about that fact. I am fairly well versed in addressing the church's bigotry towards me. But me being a Mormon does not begin and end with the church. My mormonism is, first and foremost, my own. It doesn't belong to the church, it belongs to me. I love Mormon doctrines and theology, and the Book of Mormon. I treasure them, and the spiritual insights they have brought. I love my fellow Mormons, and I love being in a community of like-minded weirdos. The church as an institution I have a rocky relationship with, with a lot of both good and bad. But they are not the reason I am a Mormon. If there was no institutional church, I would still be a Mormon. No doubt about it. So to say the church doesnt care about me does not address me as either a Mormon who is proud to be one, or a queer person seeing what they can do to maybe change things in the church. Its just rubbing salt in the wound.

6: I know life is worth living. I just want mormonism to be a part of my life, in some way. I am a Mormon. Up down left and right. It is an important piece of who I am. I am many things. I am nonbinary. I am a nerd. I am an artist. I am a devoted partner. A friend. A Marxist. A furry, why not. And I am a Mormon. I dont feel that of you were to cut out any of that, I would be me any more. Being mormon is a part of who and what I am. It is similar to many other religions that are integral parts of someone's identity. Do not try to excise it from me.

7: You do not love me. If you did, you would help me on my terms, not your own. This is key. In order to actually help me, you have to treat me like a rational actor who understands what they are doing. Start where I am, and then we can figure out how to move forwards. I am not a republican, or a conservative, or a bigot, lost in delusion. I think I have my feet firmly planted on the ground. I know what I want, and while I don't know everything that I might need that would help me, you don't either unless you are willing to listen to my experience, and actually reflect on what I am saying. You dont have to agree with me. You may even be correct that leaving the church is what will be best for me down the line. But we don't find that out like this. This ask does not begin to address how to help me. You help me first, by listening to me. And I don't think you want to. And so, I don't think you love me. Love accepts things as they are, imperfect flawed and messy, and tries to work with those things. You wish that the person I am didn't exist, and would rather wish me into something more like you. I don't accept that. I cannot.

A final note:

One thing that bothers me about exmormonism as a movement is its obsession with Mormonism. From my limited experience, it often tries to center itself as the Definitive Interpretation of What it Means to Be Mormon. One former exmo here on tumblr once said that exmormonism is just another branch of Mormonism, that inherits a lot of its toxic traits. I think that is probably true. If there is one thing Mormons love doing, it is insisting that they are the Only Mormons. It seems a bit toxic though. Exmormonism is an inherently negative movement, defined wholly by being opposed to something. It doesn't have any positive aims of its own, only goals in reactions to Mormonism: the goal is to be opposed to mormonism, whatever that means. Defining yourself as a Not That is inherently toxic, as it defines your worth not by your own inherent value, but by how you compare to something else. That doesnt seem healthy to me frankly.

I am sorry about the rant. I hope you all have a great day.

[newvegascowboy]

thanks for responding to my reblog with ur input because i dont often interact with ex-mormons a lot. i feel we are all silent about it until its depicted/brought up so we can complain about it lol. There is many things I had to unpack as a indigenous person once I fully left. u had a great perspective on it!!

i'm always pleased to talk to another exmormon! i was raised in a super insulated community (all white and mormon) so i greatly appreciate your input as well. thank you for sharing!

[relatablemormonmoments]

i love when utah/idaho morms start talking about things like alien g-d and sasquatch cain because those are pretty much only utah and idaho folk beliefs, they did not make it out of the mormon corridor.

[relatablemormonmoments]

a guy on mutual asked how i reconcile my [heretical] studies with my faith which, like, one, i dont 100% believe in the faith anyways you mollusk but I ask why and he says "Well Joseph Smith said the Garden of Eden is in Missouri, but your people say humanity originated in Africa" My people [anthropologists] have proof that humanity originated in Africa And Missouri sucks anyways

[relatablemormonmoments]

When my family joined the church we literally asked our friends who had converted a year before we started attending if we could get our pets baptized and temple sealed to us because we wanted to be with them forever because we love our cats so much.

And also because they were the only people we knew in our ward who also had pets.

Anyways thats the number one reason of why you should stan converts.

[relatablemormonmoments]

I keep thinking about how the church hasn't put out an official statement about the current political situation and the church's stance... but I've realised that the church hasn't said anything because they don't want to offend any of the racists within our multitude. The church is too focused on keeping people within the multitude to actually focus on what matters.

I usually don't agree with "silence is compliance" but in this case I believe the Church's silence as an organisation tells everyone their true stance.

Im honestly so disappointed i can't even put it into words.

[relatablemormonmoments]

Ah yes, my favorite doctrinal mastery concept

Act in Florida

I believe @nerdygaymormon is very good at that

[relatablemormonmoments]

April General Conference 2020

These are my personal notes on each of the talks given. This is to give those who chose not to listen to conference a chance to select which talks they would be comfortable listening to or reading.

Talks will be marked as such. This is the level of suggestion I have for interacting with each talk

Read and Listen to

Listen/Watch

Read

Don’t bother

Saturday Morning Session

Russell M. Nelson (Listen/Watch)

Life’s personal trials stretch far beyond this virus

If you are prepared you shall not fear - personal spiritual storehouses

Stand in holy places and be not moved

Seek to hear Jesus Christ who speaks to us through the power of the Holy Ghost

As our hearts change and we commence a lifelong quest to hear him

M. Russell Ballard (Read)

The Lord has watched that family forever, Joseph Smith was ordained in the premortal life for eternity.

Because the family was united, they survived these challenges when starting over in Palmyra, New York.

Joseph: Felt great confusion from many religious revivalists contradicting eachother

The bible did not contain all the answers to life’s questions, but rather told men and women how to find these answers through fervent prayer

Joseph asked the personages which sect was right -> fullness of the gospel would be noted to him at some future time

Joseph prepared to be a prophet of G-d

“No such things as visions or revelations”

Joseph was persecuted for his visions

Moroni appeared to Joseph to tell him about the plates

Hyrum witnessed the Gold plates and was one of the first members of the church in 1830.

Hyrum was promised the power to escape if he wanted to, or to lay down his life to glorify G-d

Hyrum sealed his testimony in blood

A faceless group of cowards became the mob that killed them

In life they were not divided and in death they were not separated.

“Mother, weep not for us, we have overcome the world”

“And G-d shall wipe away all tears from their eyes”

They come to know G-d through their suffering in ways that could not happen without it

As we listen to the spirit, share it and be courageous.

James R. Rasband (Read and Listen to)

Without the Book of Mormon, where would I turn for peace?

Trust in His atoning sacrifice

The more we understand, the more we will have reassurance that the Book of Mormon can comfort our souls

To bring about the plan of mercy and the demands of justice

Alma tormented by the pains of hell, believing he had murdered G-d’s children by leading them away, but then realised that they were saved by Christ’s Atonement

The thought that rescued Alma was the Atonement

King Benjamin declared that the glad tidings of joy came in the righteous judgement of men

We are accountable when we are not ignorant and we still sin - we can repent

How can those we harm be made whole?

ALL G-d’s children will be given the opportunity

The pain of our own mistakes is the fear of limiting our childrens’ joy.

Commands us to do all we can to make restitution

Can require a simple apology or years of humble effort

Joy D. Jones (Read and Listen to)

Women’s continuing roles in the restoration

As exemplars and devout leaders of the faith

Early sisters unitedly followed the prophet

“Sisters, it is our turn!”

To be a woman in this time is an especially noble calling

What children can do as they step forward->Is it hard to be the prophet?-> Hard to strive to be like Christ, Follow the example of Moses (the Lord loves effort), like piano lessons, requires practice to progress -> I want little Pearl to be the next prophet

Our journey indeed takes effort, hard work, and study

Offer up the desires of our hearts to G-d

G-d knows each of us by name and has a role for each of us to fulfill

The Lord expects us to receive revelation from him

“Increase your spiritual capacity to receive revelation.”

We are promised a crown of righteousness

Prevent General Conference Overwhelm

The spirit helps us determine which work to do today

Our continuing ride is to receive revelation

We can then inspire the rising generation to do the same

Every woman and every man has direct access to the power of G-d

As women we must recognise our covenants as direct access to G-d

World’s greatest champion of women and womanhood is Jesus Christ

Neil L. Anderson (Read and Listen to)

Despite living in danger, Joseph continued proclaiming his truth

We are being blessed openly and spiritually, and in times of difficulty, the saviour brings these experiences back into our mind

“What I received was from Heaven, I know it and G-d knows that I know it.”

President Nelson was a heart surgeon uwu

“It’s a miracle” -> President Nelson had been directed by G-d

Glasses lost in ocean -> prevented driving car -> would be stranded -> “Praying would do nothing” ->his pair of glasses rested in her hand

114 years old -> missionaries give a blessing to critically ill baby -> miraculously recovered -> baptized at 103 years old, endowed at 104, now takes 14 hour bus ride to visit temple every year.

“Help me to never forget what I have felt” (on woman reading Book of Mormon and knowing it was true)

Abish believed! ABISH!

"A beautiful, warm, loving spirit surrounded me”

Sometimes fire, sometimes ideas, sometimes intelligence

Signs may not be grand or loud

Many have heard him but not realised it

We worthily do

Prayerfully listen and keep commandments

These experiences are for children as well

“Did G-d send a message that was just for me?”

ooo animation

Our book of life, luminous stones that help brighten the world ahead

I met this dude (Neil L. Anderson), he’s a sweetheart. He shook my hand. I had just joined the church at the age of five and had not yet seen more than 2 conferences

As you acknowledge and treasure the spiritually defining events in your life, you will find more.

Douglas D Holmes (Read)

New children and youth initiative

Principles the program is built on

The Lord is trying to help all of us

Relationships in our ongoing journey to Christ

Parents, friends, family members, leaders

Be open and honest with each other as we strive to be better together

When we see through Heavenly Father’s eyes, we will see their eternal worth

What you learn is who they are and who they can become

Knit our hearts in unity and in love

It’s not enough just to be bound together, we also need experiences

Word of G-d is spiritual power

Fuels our desire to repent and walk the covenant path. 

We allow the saviour to change us and become the best version of our selves,

Allow G-d’s children to choose to do what is right

Invitation to choose to become like saviour.

Goals are a tool that can help us come to heaven.

We need to engage in it

“They desire a cause”

“Only the Gospel can save the world from the calamity of its own self destruction.”    ------> ew this is kind of a yucky way to say it 

Empowering the youth

“You have the capacity to be smarter and wiser and have more impact on the world than any previous generation”

See the youth as President Nelson does

The youth will amaze you with their abilities and insight into the Gospel

Ultimate Purpose

Henry B. Eyring (It’s my boy!!!!) (Read and Listen to)

Inspiration has come to us

“In what way is my part vital”

Feel more joyful, optimistic and determined in serving the Lord

He will lift each of us

The work of the Lord is almost incomprehensible to mortals

Glorious promises made to the fathers

Energy, skill, and abilities of the Saints

Prophet Daniel

The Lord will offer the gift of his gospel to every nation and people

The power of G-d is upon it

Take upon them the name of Christ to grow in spiritual power

Obeying the commandments increases spiritual power

Pray in faith = revelation

As we face today’s challenges, every breath should be a prayer to  G-d

Always remember him and keep his commandments

Use all your power to call upon G-d to unleash the chains that bind you

Our determination can strengthen us in our resolve

Like Enos, have faith, be made whole

Goatee!!! XD

Pray while smiling, speak to Heavenly Father with joy in your voice

Your prayer will be received with a smile

May we find joy in the work

[relatablemormonmoments]

Ok its almost midnight, but I keep thinking about something

Its a line from a song from a band I've been listening to, "Unwanted Animal" by The Amazing Devil (Ironic i know but)

"If we clasp our hands in Prayer enough, to G-d I imagine it all starts to sound like applause."

If you're extremely religious, you probably pray either every day, or at least whenever you remember/are supposed to. A lot of people though, religious or not, only pray when something's gone wrong. Which I think is what's happening now. We've got the virus and war threats and threats of economic recession, and just now we're starting to pray.

In my church, that's often referred to as society's pride cycle.

So that quote I mentioned earlier, like... I don't know much, I'm seventeen, freaked out, I'm a bit of a rebel and I'm pretty sure if anyone I go to church with actually knew me I'd be considered a heathen... but like, we probably shouldn't pray unless we're going to continue praying to whoever we worship. We shouldn't beg and fast and plead for something better to change if we don't devote ourselves to our gods.

Gods have rarely been known to be humble or kind, if anything they're just as human as we are. And if you believe your deity is all powerful, but you're not regularly giving them their due, and in our society, where almost nobody else is either? That's when bad things happen. The fall of pride.

Giving your deity attention now, during a bad time, when you don't intend to later will only make things worse. That's applause. And gods, including the Christian God, thrive just as much as we do on praise.

So I don't know. Think about it.

"Pray with a contrite spirit and sincere heart."

I'm not saying that you suddenly need to be praying day and night, and I'm not saying that you need to be the most devout person in your religion, I'm honestly saying that if you're not going to build a relationship with your god(s), they know your heart, and gods don't smile on that too well.

[relatablemormonmoments]

Hey followers!

Just wanted to notify you all of four scheduled posts coming up tomorrow (Tues, April 6 2020) with my personal conference notes. This year I labelled each with my suggestion on how you should review them or partake of them if you haven’t already. There were no talks this year that I believed you shouldn’t at least read, however, use your own discretion. I do this after every conference to warn people about potential triggers. As we all have different triggers, I have tried to listen and take as many notes as possible. I have also, on occasion, included my own thoughts and feelings. I hope you all enjoy them

[relatablemormonmoments]

My ward is supposed to go back in person next week... im really nervous. It feels too early to go back for one thing (I live in an area where it's still really bad, and a lot of people have refused to wear masks the entire pandemic) but also since I never really had any friends in my ward, and don't really like some of the older members. (nor do they like me, I'm "too liberal" for most of them...)

wish. me. luck