#evolving the hazbin characters

[this-fine-day]

Demonic Vox (well, more demonic)

Trying to conceptualize how the hazbin characters could "evolve" into their more demonic forms. Coming up with a Vox design that incorporated electricity, a shark theme, and his screen was definitely a challenge, but a fun one!

[thecryptidart1st]

so-

thoughts on hellavuh since you're that kinda guy?

i like it

[malaierba]

There's something a little fascinating behind the evolution of Hazbin's characters. I haven't even paid that much attention to the Hazbin-verse, it was always just big enough that I'd learn things without noticing, and looking back I can't think of any series for which there's so much material recorded related to its characters' evolution. But I'm getting sidetracked.

Like, Sir Pentious was meant to be a one off character, probably not unlike the evil inventor couple in Helluva. But the fans and the creative team ended up liking him so much that he's now reincarnated as a Seraphim like, that? Love that for him, and also, isn't it incredible how something like that earned this character actual weight to the story?

Angel and Vaggie used to be a couple (obviously neither were gay). The other day I was reading an indie comic called Stick n Poke where the authors shared that the main female lead was originally created as a male character for a DnD campaign, and that during it she essentially broke her egg. I wonder if it was similar for Viv with Angel and Vaggie, when as they developed she realised that they made more sense as gay and lesbian?

I know there's even more fun facts like this in the series, again, I've never followed the Vivzieverse too closely until recently, but I still think it's fun. I know it only makes sense that a character you've had for over a decade would change a lot, but to actually find proof of it happening, instead of it being retold over one or two pages in an art book that only hardcore fans will seek just hits different.

[creamecream]

Tfw your gf is famous and has one of those sleepy plushies.

Maeve belongs to @abyssnighthawk

[fizziepopangel]

I love Angel Dust and I will probably still always refer to him like that (unless he canonically goes back to his given name), but Anthony's personality and vibe is the absolute best and I am so excited to see him being more himself as the show goes on!

Me noticing that Anthony’s personality slipping through his alter ego’s facade

Episodes:

• Masquerade (1x04 - majorly)

• Welcome to Heaven (1x06)

• The Show Must Go On (1x08)

Personality (as Anthony)

• Self-assertive (outside the Porn Studios contract)

• Insecure

• Hypersensitive

• Defensive

• Family orientated

<> Paternal 🤭

• Hopeful

• Protective

• Timid

<> Through copping constant abuse from Valentino which would often make him nervous in his presence

• Volatile

• Inferior

<> Seen when Charlie declared Sir Pentious as “official patron” at the Hazbin Hotel

• Comedic (genuinely)

• Loyal

• Attentive

<> Seen when Angel Dust rejected Cherri Bomb’s offered drugs after Husk mentioned about “undoing his progress” (and something similar again in episode 1x08 even when it was the last night of doing whatever before going to war)

• Restlessness

• Hysterical (maniacal)

<> When really, really, REALLY pissed off; particularly when he’s called “fake”

• Vulnerable

• Traumatised (via the song “Poison; at the end)

Other (trivia):

• Italian accent is thicker and more noticeable when he’s not portraying as “Angel Dust” (when emotional)

• Mostly likely (via the ongoing abuse from Valentino) developed a praise/validation kink (semi-canon)

• Big on consent (HC) because he knows what it feels like not to have permission of one’s body

• Hopless romantic (HC) when with the right person 🤭

[fandomapocalypse]

Love and relationships in Hazbin Hotel

Episode 7 has something interesting and in the song that is called "Out for love" is sung by a character that is referring to a type of love different from a romantic or sexual one, Carmilla is openly talking about familial love. Vaggie of course relates this to her romantic feelings towards Charlie and how she wants to help her. But something else interesting happens in episode 7, Rosie is properly introduced as Alastor's bestie. This leads to showing another type of love: platonic love.

Now to the main point of this post: Alastor. It's canon that he is aroace and as an ace myself (I'm still questioning whether I'm aromantic or demiromantic but this post isn't about me lol) I'm extremely happy to see myself through him. Plus, the fact that the perfect Tumblr sexyman is aroace is genius and hilarious, you can't possibly top this type of humor.

Alastor for me has been a great ace representation and I've seen myself mainly in how he acts around his friends or other people.

When it comes to Niffty it looks more like a relationship between someone with their feral cat or their crazy little sister. But it's still a genuine connection and a fun chaotic one at that, he even lets her touch his hair and climb on him. In regards to Mimzy, he has shown he cares about her and welcomes her with open arms. He openly hugs her, which shocks everyone in the cast. This is extremely important because Alastor usually only starts physical contact to mock others or to pretend physical closeness as a manipulation tactic (like he often does with Charlie). When it comes to people he hates Alastor may touch them but will quickly wipe his hand on his clothes, like what he did with Lucifer. Personally, I don't like personal contact and only accept it if I start it and usually I use it as a way to show affection with close friends. Also, they have known each other since they were alive, so Mimzy probably knows a lot about Alastor that the rest of the cast doesn't. Mimzy also says that they used to dance together. But that doesn't exclude the fact that she uses Alastor's friendship and affection to save her own ass and taking into account how Husk reacted to Mimzy, this isn't the first time she does this. Also, the relationship between the two starts to crumble after what happened in episode 6 and Mimzy seems to be the kind of friend who will pretend that they are still on good terms and still ask Alastor for favors in the future.

Now jumping back to Alastor's true bestie: Rosie. They probably bonded at first over their cannibalistic natures but it's clear that it evolved beyond that. Personally, I don't ship Alastor with anyone, but when it comes to Rosie I headcanon they are in a QPR.

There are various reasons why this relationship is so great and wholesome, the first one being that there is no power imbalance, they are equals. Both are cannibalistic overlords and are on equal footing in terms of power. When Rosie first sees Alastor she is genuinely happy which is something new because most people react badly to him out of fear or hatred.

Alastor respects Rosie, he even compliments her, in her introduction he says she is "the most darling, delightful, and dangerous Overlord of this side of the pentagram". Considering how self-centered and narcissistic he can be, it means a lot. Alastor would rather die again than compliment another Overlord who isn't Zestial, which he respects but out of fear. Alastor respects Rosie as his close friend. When they stand next to each other they give an air of equals, something that never happens thanks to Alastor's ego and sadism towering over everyone else. With Rosie it's different and Rosie can openly tease Alastor with the "Look at you, so polite! Alastor you can learn a thing or two" when comparing him to Charlie when meeting her, or "I'm just kidding, I know you're an ace in the hole" to tease him about his asexuality. This is something that not a lot of people can do because Alastor is obsessed with control and respect. After all, we see how badly he reacted when Husk insulted him.

He also harmonizes with her, he willingly makes a duet with her in "Ready for this". He isn't interrupting her, instead, he agrees with her and they sing together in unison. This is the first time he doesn't openly hijack a song or fight for control over it, like he did with Vox and Lucifer (although this also happened because this is Charlie's song, but who cares the point still stands). Also, this is the first time we see him dance with someone, instead of forcing them to join his musical number (like he does with Charlie on various occasions). Alastor and Rosie are in perfect sync and it's so wholesome and precious to see him being so openly happy with her. Many have pointed out that the only times Alastor is genuinely smiling is when he is with Rosie and it shows by his expression in his eyes.

Finally, Rosie is the only one capable of bringing the most human emotions out of him, the most obvious one being confusion. In the scene of "ace in the hole" Rosie manages to confuse and surprise Alastor for a solid second, which is a huge change of his persona around everyone else of control and manipulation. Also, it's hilarious that Alastor doesn't know what being aroace is, he probably thinks he is above all that.

He is openly relaxed around Rosie and lets her touch him in an affectionate way, something that not even Mimzy can do. It may be because of the height difference but Mimzy only touches Alastor to hug him and to emphasize he is a "heartless son of a bitch" and Alastor clearly gets irritated by her touching him that way and even moves her finger away from him. This never happens with Rosie and he even welcomes her touching him by not having any walls with her. It's Rosie the one starting the physical contact and Alastor doesn't seem to mind and he never tries to use physical contact to take advantage of her like he does with other characters. Rosie is one of the few people who can touch Alastor without losing an arm and instead have a positive reaction out of him.

The most genuine relationship Alastor has is with Rosie, he even has the confidence and comfort to stop his elegant and reserved persona of not swearing. Which he only does when he is truly angry, like what happened with Lucifer. Or when he is threatening someone like he did with Adam. Or when he is shocked when his microphone breaks. He swears to insult Susan, which is someone they both despise equally. Something that you would only do with your closest bestie.

Finally, let's talk about Alastor's breakdown in the last episode. We've already seen that Alastor is capable of having friendships that aren't based on an end goal. Alastor knows this but he rejects it because he is at the hotel originally for selfish goals and doesn't want his emotions to get in the way. He is terrified of ruining his reputation as a sadistic killer and becoming an altruistic who cares about his friends. Alastor wants to stop himself from starting to care about the crew the same way he cares about Rosie, Mimzy, or Nifty to some degree. This is confirmed by his conversation with Niffty, where he admits he has grown accustomed to the main crew and perhaps he is growing feelings of affection towards them in his own way.

In regards to shipping him with Rosie, I see it as a platonic ship or a QPR. Some people have a headcanon that if they had known each other when they were alive they would have married for tax benefits and to avoid the social stigma, which is the only right answer. When they first met in hell they probably had dates in cannibal town where they ate human flesh while gossiping and trash-talked about the other overlords. Which is exactly what an ace person like myself wants from a close friendship.

As an ace, I really like Alastor not because he is the ultimate Tumblr sexyman or see him as hot but because he is an extremely fun character that I can relate to. I'm grateful for the crew and VA that take into account he is aroace and take seriously that aspect of his character. I don't mind that the aroace representation in Hazbn Hotel is a narcissistic psychopath, if you want a more wholesome ace representation you can check Todd in Bojack Horseman or Saiki in The Disastrous Life of Saiki K.

I don't mind people shipping Alastor, after all, it's just people having fun, but you can't ignore that he is aroace and how this affects his relationships. So yeah have fun and respect and aroace community :)

ok thanks for hearing my rant bye

[the-rat-eatery]

Hot take: helluva boss is kinda better than hazbin? The characters feel more genuine and are more complex, they have more clear motivations and, though it definitely has its flaws (unhappy campers I’m looking at you), it’s just so much more fun.

The songs are often better, so is the animation— somehow— and it just consistently hits harder with both the comedy and the emotional points. Like I am so much more invested in the romances of helluva than the kinda-boring romances of hazbin. Both m&m and fizz/ozzie are sweeter and more developed than chaggie, stolitz intrigues me so much more than huskerdust (though I get that stolitz gets more of a focus in its show). Moxxie’s and Blitz’s daddy issues are so much more interesting than Charlie’s relationship with Lucifer.

It feels consistently better written, maybe that’s because there’s no interference from Amazon executives, maybe that’s because there’s less pressure to make it perfect, maybe that’s because it took its original concept and evolved out of it while not losing sight of it (something that can’t be said for hazbin hotel), I don’t know, but to me it’s true. Don’t get me wrong, I like Hazbin Hotel, but while I often feel the need to rewatch helluva episodes for things I missed or just because I want to experience it again, I don’t really get that for hazbin (except maybe episode 4?). Helluva boss feels more innovative, more creative, probably because it has the space and time to be that.

Or maybe it’s just cuz I’m rlly hyped for helluva rn idk you decide

[thats-enough-red]

For me one of the biggest red flags for the Hazbin cast is how proud their creator appears to be that she has had (most?) of them since junior high. I mean kudos to anyone who has a concept they came up with when they were 11 that still works, but for me it doesn’t exist. Any characters I created at that age would need to be entirely remade in order to have any appeal now. And even then I’m not sure I’d want people to know that that was their origin, that my ideas of writing and character creation haven’t evolved much since childhood.

[prince-liest]

It's kind of a weird (not sure if good or bad or just neutral!) experience to realize that a lot of the personal headcanons I've written into my own writing have become well-known enough that they're treated as general fanon with a lot of people using them and not realizing that they, like, originated from a specific place rather than just being ambiently popular. Every once in a while I come across a fic where there's an AN that says something to the tune of, "Oh, I saw this popular headcanon that [insert something really specific from 666: Live On Air!] and wanted to[...]" without attributing it to me - or, most likely, even realizing that it came from me!

It's an interesting feeling! I think the times that actually bother me are when it's people that know they got the headcanon directly from me and choose not to credit me (or in one weird instance, credit me, then edit their stuff to bury the credit to be really hard to find for some reason - y'all, I do notice these things even when I don't comment on them).

I've been straight up plagiarized many times before. It's ranged from friends in RP groups stealing my characters because I wasn't using them often anymore, to more recently someone ripping out chunks of one of my Hazbin Hotel fics and rewriting it as their own. It's a uniquely horrible feeling, and I think it makes me sensitive to feeling uncredited as a result even when plagiarism isn't occuring. On the other hand, this is literally how headcanons evolve and I'm actually so fucking happy that specific things that I was outright nervous to post because I thought people would (and in a few cases, people did) react very poorly to them are now, like...fairly common fanon.

Anyway, I don't think it's wrong for people to carry forward headcanons to the point where they don't even know where they came from. I also think most likely some concepts became convergently popular when more than one person had the same thought! It's how fandoms work and I know for a fact I've done the same... but it does very much give me the warm and fuzzies when people that use my ideas do give a nod in my direction for where they got the inspiration! In return, I try to make a point to do the same.

[redfluffz]

Heyy Guys! 👋

This pinned post is an overview of my comic.

Meet the archangels! 💖

Chapter 1 - "The beginning"

Chapter 2 - "Existence"

Chapter 3 - "Perfection"

> Patreon <

> Instagram <

✨️ > 500-follower-special < ✨️ (Page 13 > 23rd November)

🚫 ASK BOX CLOSED

What is it about?

"Creation" is a comic about Lucifers backstory. From his birth to his fall. It's about many phases of his life (i mean boy is already thousands? millions? of years old ... ???). It will have topics like growing up with his 6 siblings, starting a royal life with duties, finding and understanding love, fulfilling his greatest most important task – creation - and much more!

My motivation

This little comic has evolved from a wild idea to a real fun project. The idea arose when it was announced how long we still have to wait for the next Hazbin Hotel season. (No front. Seriously, no front.) And since we don't even know if Luc's story will be shown in the next season, my first thought was: "I don't want (can't) wait 4-6 years for his story". Sooo I make my own story to satisfy my brain.

I try to "hover" along the canon, to pick up theories, to consult the bible and other media in order to create a meaningful and comprehensible past for my favorite character.

Of course there will be errors or inconsistencies because I can only continue working on this fun project after work. So have mercy on me. I try to upload a part every two weeks on Friday, but I can't promise it. Sorry.

I also upload smaller comics, but please don't take them too seriously. For me these are mostly just exercises to practice the characters. And for you these might be little packs filled with good mood and a good laughter. Hopefully.

So much about the talk from my heart. I hope you have as much fun with the comic as I did/will do. See ya in hel-eh-heaven, guys!

PS: Thanks for reading to this point.

Funfact: I will change the header alongside the story.

[cinnamon-galaxies]

𝐆𝐞𝐭 𝐭𝐨 𝐊𝐧𝐨𝐰 𝐦𝐲 𝐎𝐓𝐏 - 𝐑𝐚𝐝𝐢𝐨𝐠𝐚𝐳𝐞𝐥𝐥𝐞

•~•~•~•~•~•~•~•

I’ve been shipping my OC Mara with Alastor ever since I joined the Hazbin fandom, and over time, their story has grown into a detailed lore.

There are two AUs where I ship them. The first is a Human AU, which covers their full story from life to afterlife. The second is a Hell AU, where they meet for the first time after their deaths. I mostly use the Hell AU for short stories and drabbles that often contradict each other. It's just for fun and doesn’t have lore as developed as the Human AU. Everything I post about this ship or my OC takes place in one of these two AUs.

Mara and Alastor first met while they were alive. Mara was a singer at a local jazz club in New Orleans, which drew the attention of Alastor, the city’s most popular and renowned radio host. Long story short, they fell in love, got "married"*, and after dying some time apart, both were dragged to Hell. They spent a long time searching for each other until they finally reunited. Not only defying the concept of ’Til death do us part’ but also to make their marriage finally officially on paper*, they remarried soon after and since then spend their afterlives together.

Mara and Alastor are both similar and completely different from each other, balancing each other out perfectly. You can imagine the shocked faces when Alastor introduced her to the other hotel residents. The Radio Demon? Married? To such a beautiful and kind woman? What sounds like a bad joke at first soon develops into a surprising dynamic, with Mara keeping Alastor at bay while she supports the Princess of Hell in her ambitious project. At the hotel, she finds a new home where she shares a space not only with her beloved husband (who's been away for seven long years) but also with a group of chaotic sinners who quickly take a special place in her heart.

Mara means a lot to me. She isn’t a self-insert, but she’s a multifaceted character with traits that might surprise you but that also reflect some of my own. May it be hobbies, personality traits, quirks or music taste...

Given how much her and Alastor’s story has evolved, I’m considering creating a long-fic that portrays their love story from life to death.

•~•~•~•~•~•~•~•

*Due to Louisiana’s anti-miscegenation laws, interracial marriages were illegal until 1967, meaning couples faced severe legal and social consequences: criminal charges, fines, imprisonment, or forced annulments. The only way for a non-white person to avoid these discriminatory laws was to "pass as white," which besides having a "white" appearance, also means hiding their background to present a white public image. But I don’t want that for Alastor.

While we know little about his human life or appearance, I don’t want him to "pass as white", as it would erase the significance of his Creole heritage, reducing it to a convenient plot point without truly honoring his cultural identity. I don't want his identity as Creole to feel like an excuse to explain away a privileged existence, while still allowing him to draw on specific cultural ties. Instead, I like to imagine him with dark brown, wavy hair, brown eyes, and naturally tanned skin – especially since nothing is canon yet.

This means that Mara and Alastor, as an interracial couple, either had to marry out of state or informally within Alastor’s Creole community. But since these unions weren't recognized by Louisiana law, I refer to them as "married" rather than legally married. In Hell, they re-enacted their wedding not only to defy the standard of "til death do us part" but to finally make it official on paper. Even if that means exchanging rings a second time.

[mendely]

So anyway, Hazbin Hotel. I watched some of the new series, I have a lot of thoughts, but I'll TL;DR:

In my honest opinion, its biggest weakness is that it feels utterly directionless, scattershot, and inconsistent. It feels like the series hasn't evolved past "I put a bunch of disparate childhood OCs in the same place together" and hasn't figured out any coherent theme or thesis statement to make as a narrative. This applies to both the writing and the art direction. Characters feel like they come from vastly different settings/genres and so do the plot points explored from episode to episode. In general it's really hard to get a read on what the series has to say, overall.

other comments:

this has been the most ineffective use of swearing I have ever seen in writing

genocide as a plot point and handled like that in the show... yeah this was really poorly timed. obviously this wasn't done on purpose, but not a good look at the moment considering irl situations

Adam is highly underwhelming both design and writing wise

I like the TV head corporate magnate, but imo he's not really suited for this setting. He feels more like a sci-fi cartoon villain to me

Alastor supposedly being black and/or creole is not well portrayed. There's also cultural appropriation issues with his character but everyone has talked about that already

the characters supposedly being from different cultures and historical eras is poorly handled, e. g. I can't really believe Angel Dust is an Italian mobster from the 1940s because practically all of the characters strike me as modern and American

overall this show is so SO americentric and I'm kinda not vibing with that

[thecryptidart1st]

In one of your posts you said that there were some songs you were gonna animate with some characters either from The Graveyard Shift or idk. Are there any animatics about that topic that you have started?

I have no animatics, but a butt ton of hyperphantasia, so this ask was an opportunity to draw out scenes that haunt my mind every day

For The Graveyard Shift in particular, I have ideas for the following songs (sorta in order from least to most unhinged and including spoilers for future TGS characters)

"Shit" by Bo Burnham

Probably most of Tom Cardy (Perception Check and Hey I Don't Work Here shown here)

"You Didn't Know" from Hazbin Hotel , bc Lute's line didn't need to go that hard but its burned into my memory at this point (also this animatic somehow evolved from its initial concept while working on this ask so now it's Rosemary and Gregory)

"We Don't Talk About Bruno", but Michael Afton is Bruno being talked by every other mascot horror because Sammy's looking for him

"Waiting In The Wings (Reprise)" from Tangled the Animated Series (this is actually the most serious bc it's actual character growth between Mike and Doug)

"Forklift Simulator" by Sbassbear (bc I base Mike's and Ethan's friendship and humor off of Game Grumps interactions)

and finally "Bring In the Love" by Dankmus, bc this stupid remix has been haunting me for the better part of half a year now and stupid sexy workout William won't leave me alone

[jasminebeanbun]

Post for my Hazbin fam ad nauseam from your local ace elder (am I an elder? My knees and back say I am, so leggo):

Asexuality is a spectrum. The resident deer radio man is only confirmed to be ace, not aro. If you headcanon Alastor as aroace to represent you, then more power to you! I will agree that our media is over saturated with sexual relationships and we need more friendships! More QPRs! More buddies!

At the same time…A LOT ™️ of people are saying that shipping Alastor is disrespectful to ace people. I am here to say that it is not in the vein of asexuality alone. I am a great example as someone who is ace, but also biromantic. I am someone who considers myself to be in a friendship-based QPR, but it also doesn’t even have to have a category or a name to it. I have explored sexuality and spicy activities. Some are fun, some are not for me. It’s all good.

It’s okay for ace people to have sex and like it. It’s okay for ace people to be sex repulsed. It’s okay for ace people to feel neutral about sex. IT’S OKAY for ace people to do whatever they want with their bodies as long as it’s consensual.

Sexualities are complex, and it’s okay for them to change and evolve. Hell, (ha) Alastor didn’t even know he was asexual. And ships have always been ways for fandoms to express themselves. I was there when the deep magic was written on livejournal and fanfiction.net. It’s always been an outlet. And I ship Alastor three ways from Thursday, and none of them involve sex. They might if my creativity calls for it, but my headcanons and fics haven’t gone that way yet.

I know COVID changed fandom dynamics. But it is fine to not like a ship, a headcanon, a trope. You do you. But policing how people use a character in our little patch of the hellaverse…let’s not do that. Let people explore and express themselves. We’re supposed to be having fun, and I volunteer to be the resident chaperone that annoys all the people at the party asking “WHY AREN’T YOU HAVING FUN? GO DANCE WITH SOMEONE DAMMIT.”

And I’m an introvert. But I volunteer.

And I’m going to make Al and Luci kiss now, because I want to.

K’bye. 😘

[reblogs-and-writings]

Inspired by @chaifootsteps

Everyone's sending in their Hazbin character rewrites, and that looked fun so I want to toss my own hat into the ring. Sorry for the long post. What really bothers me most about Hazin Hotel is that it claims to be a show about redemption, but it seems to be a show about lack of consequence. The reasons why the characters are in hell are never really explained. There are things you can infer about certain people: Alastor's murder, Husk's gambling, Angel's drug use, etc. However, the show never explains why those behaviors are wrong and how they can improve. More often than not, those behaviors are used as jokes. It's funny to have a cannibal town. Angel Dust's name is a pun on the drug that killed him. It's just tonally very wierd to purport that anyone can be redeemed, ANYONE, even people in HELL, can be redeemed and then not continue that very messy and difficult ethical conversation.

Nifty is boy-crazy. Taken to its extreme, what can that mean? What causes attraction so vile it sends you to hell? Was she was one of those "Boy Moms" who excuses his son's horrid actions at the expense of women's safety? Did she cover up a rape her child committed, because Mother's special little boy couldn't possible do something so vile! Or maybe she didn't love her children enough. Maybe her obsession with "bad boys" comes from being forced into an extremely suffocating and unhappy marriage. Maybe she ran off with some 50s biker. Maybe she abandoned her children because she was too obsessed with being loved herself that she couldn't love her children if it meant not having a man's attention. Maybe her boy craziness evolved into a raving jealousy if she didn't get her feelings reciprocated. She's a maid, right? She wants things clean and tidy. Did she murder a man? Did she spend hours scrubbing the floor so none of his blood would remain? Then maybe her arc could be about loving herself and not needing a man to define her identity. Maybe it could be unpacking internalized misogyny and coming to terms with the real pain she caused other women.

Mimzy is opportunistic. She only comes around when she needs a favor. She has no loyalty and only uses Alastor to get her out of problems. Why is she like that? Who taught her that relationships were transactional instead of committal? Maybe she was once a naive young girl who got 'used' for something, and it soured her opinion on other people. I mean, she's plus-sized during the FLAPPER era, where thin was like 1990s level of in. But there's a lot of plus-sized women who talk about being some guy's sneaky link, because he wants to prey on her insecurity and get her into bed, but then never be seen with her, because she's not a socially acceptable dating option. Did Mimzy get her heart broken, and now she doesn't trust anyone? Now she just uses people for what they're good for, because hurt people hurt people, and she's continuing a cycle she herself was a victim to? Maybe Mimzy's redemption could be about letting people in, about not letting trauma turn her into a bad person.

Husk is an alcoholic and a gambling addict. Most people don't just pick up those hobbies for the fun of it. Husk is a miserable little man, and he was probably driven to drink because of his own unhappiness. He was pansexual in the 1970s, right? Maybe he couldn't accept himself or he was forced to not accept himself. Maybe he was forced into a loveless marriage, and he started to go out to the casino to get away from the wife and family he never wanted. But more and more and more he spends time over there, because he doesn't want to go home. And soon he becomes dependent on booze and gambling because it gives him a little joy in his miserable life. But addiction doesn't hurt just the addicted person. It hurts everyone around him. He starts skipping work to gamble. He loses his job. He steals money from his wife. He bets the car. Then the house. He leaves his family destitute, and he's convinced he's the victim because he never wanted to be a husband and father in the first place. When he dies of alcohol poisoning, his family doesn't even claim his body. His redemption could be about how when your own life sucks, it's not an excuse to hurt others. You have to find better ways to cope with a bad hand.

Angel Dust is too many things. He's a prostitute and a porn star and a gay man in the 30s and a gangster and a drug-addict. But if we were gonna try and make all of that make sense, Angel Dust is very family-oriented. He grew up in a mob family. Loyalty is EVERYTHING. So in his mind, killing people was a lesser sin than "betraying" his family by not getting rid of their enemies. His family is everything to him. So he can't be gay. He can't. He can't. He's SO repressed. He refuses to acknowledge it. He spends his entire, short life, trying to fit the mold of a perfect, loyal son. But… he did kill a LOT of people… So when he dies in some shoot out, he goes to hell, and he snaps. He did EVERYTHING he thought was right. He did everything his family told him to do. He was the perfect son, and when he dies he gets sent to hell. He immediately loses all inhibition. He's still a sex/drug addict, but only after he winds up in hell. He's going to spend eternity giving into every single base desire he denied himself while alive. It's destroying him. He's selling himself to men, but deep down he's still ashamed and wondering what his family would think. He drowns out those thoughts with more sex and drugs. Angel's redemption arc is about balance. Yes, he should have been able to be true to himself while alive, but complete indulgence is just as hurtful to him as complete denial.

Sir Pentious… why is he even in hell? I mean, he's a little annoying, and in the pilot he was involved in a gang war, but what did he do in life to justify being sent to hell? Well, he was a Victorian Englishman, so I'm gonna say racism! Horrible racism and colonialsim. He was raised in a time where those were the dominant thought patterns, and he did not analyze them one bit. Conflict can come when black-coded characters like Alastor and Husk expect to be treated like human beings. And Charlie has to face the difficulty of believing a person can change, but how to deal with the current harm they're causing the people she cares about. Maybe Sir Pentious isn't a recorring cast member. Maybe he came to the hotel because he thinks he should be in Heaven. He brought glory to the British empire. He was a kind gentleman. He donated to charities. But he leaves the hotel because he doesn't think "those people" are good enough for Heaven. He refuses to acknowledge his behavior as needing to be changed, but Charlie tells him there is a spot at the hotel when he's ready to change. His character is about how you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. He can be offered all the chances in the world to be better, but until he can come to terms with his own capacity for evil, he can't be redeemed.

Cherry Bomb doesn't exist, because she's a superfluous character that doesn't fit in my rewrite. Sir Pentious doesn't get a love interest, and Angel Dust's friend is now Vaggie.

No fallen angel crud. Vaggie was a prostitute that got murdered like Viv originally planned for her to be like 10 years ago. I think Vaggie shows some really codependent traits in the show. Charlie seems to be her entire world. She sings about being her armor. She's willing to put herself in harm's way to defend her, even die for her. She doesn't seem to care much about the other patron's of the hotel apart from them being facet's of Charlie's dream. Maybe Vaggie was one of those poor women who gets trafficked by their boyfriend (or maybe girlfriend in her case). A single person becomes her whole entire world, and she's willing to do ANYTHING for them. Even put herself in dangerous situations that lead to her death… But she did it for love! <3 She hurts herself for love.. for approval. And maybe the show can get into a conversation about what sin really is. So many people define sin as harmed caused to others, but what about harm caused to yourself? Viv originally stated that Vaggie's feelings for Charlie were one-sided, and I think that detail would be even more poignant in this interpretation of her character. She's trying so hard to be noticed and to be loved, and Charlie's become a goddess in her eyes. She puts her on such a pedastal she has no room for her own worth. Her arc is maybe a bit too similiar to Nifty's depending on how we choose to interpret her character, but it's also about finding identity outside of others and being able to set boundaries. Because loving someone and wanting to help them and wanting to protect them are not bad impulses, but like anything else, when taken to extremes it becomes something bad. Dependency can twist love into obession.

Lucifer is the Devil! He's evil! No sad-man, Dad-trying-his-best nonsense! He's evil! The big twist of Hazbin Hotel is that they're not in Hell! They're in Purgatory. There are no sins that cannot be forgiven, but sin can also not enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Purgatory is a place where your sins are burned away so that eventually you can join God in heaven. In Purgatorio, Dante depicts Purgatory as a place of effort. People are in constantly motion striving to get closer to heaven. Purgatory in Hazbin could be a place where people get a second chance to work on their vices. If they couldn't be a good person in life, then they have all of eternity to try again. But Lucifer, the prince of LIES, has convinced everyone they're in Hell. There is no redemption. There is no getting better. He causes the sinners to fall into a great despair. Why try getting better if there is no hope? So when people learn they're in hell, they dig in their heels. They lean even further into vice. They cannot experience love or laughter or joy again. So they settle for booze and sex and violence, anything to numb the pain of knowing they're trapped forever. But is a hell of their own making, little do they know. By tricking generations of sinners, not a single soul has redeemed itself and gotten to heaven in centuries. That's why no one believes it's possible. That's why when Charlie suggests it, he's furiously disapproving of her. He doesn't want people to get better. He doesn't want to improve. He wants everyone to be as miserable as he is, because misery loves company. But he can't tip his hat too much or the older souls might get suspicious. He is the Prince of Lies. His power comes not from strength but from manipulation. The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist. In Hazin, the greatest trick he ever pulled was convincing people there's no hope for themselves. I was once told that Judas's great sin was not betraying Jesus, but his own suicide after falling into despair. How glorious it would have been to go to a church named after Judas the Repentent. But alas, it is not so. The greatest sin you can commit against yourself is thinking you're too far gone.

And that's why I think Alastor is the central sinner to the narrative. Because he shares Lucifer's viewpoint. People can't get better. Nothing ever gets better. People are bad or people are good, and you can't be both. And who could blame him for having that idea? Let's just pretend that Alastor's lack of visual black-coding is because he is a VERY white-passing creole man. And because of that, he was treated so differently than his mother. And he was treated differently when people found out about his heritage. He became a big radio host. He was popular. He was famous. But he wasn't seen as an equal human being. He was a performer to be enjoyed, but never a person to be respected. He was "one of the good ones" at BEST. And he believed in the good of people. His mother was such a kind soul. She instilled in him that everyone has good inside of them. So he waited to see it. He waited and he waited, and he only saw increasing racism and violence towards his people. One day he just snaps and kills someone, and he considers it a justice. People like that are never going to change. The world is better without them. So he just keeps murdering racists until he gets shot in the head. And when he finds himself in hell, he believes even LESS in the good of people or God or heaven or whatever. If killing racists sent him to hell, then God is evil, and the idea of objective morality in and of itself is perposterous. Positioning Alastor as a vigilante killer would also make some of his comic depictions make more sense. Like he's a really nice guy to Rosie and other women, but he's also a violent murderous man. It's because he thinks people are good or bad, and if you're bad it justifies whatever he does to you. The cannibalism might also be like a power thing. Alastor's arc is about believing in Charlie's mission, genuinely. Eventually, it's not about watching people stumble and fall, because there's a cosmic humor to the cruelty of the universe. He starts to genuinely see people improve, but he fights against the idea, because his life was defined by static, perpetual, instituional evil. Maybe a soul gets redeemed before his very eyes, and he still doesn't believe it. Because to admit a human's capacity for moral growth is to completely restructure his entire understanding of the world, and that's scary.

Finally, Charlie. Princess of Hell. I've always been rather fond of Tolkien's sentiment that evil cannot create, only corrupt. So I don't think Lucifer is her real father. I think Charlie was like… a baby angel. And when Lucifer was leading his rebellion he stole children and forced them to fall to hell with him. It was just another way to bring misery, forcing the innocent to share the burden of his punishment. I think he got a sick pleasure from raising her. He "loved" her, or at least she thought he did. He was very, very good as playing Father. Prince of Lies and all that. He gets a chuckle knowing she's so happy here rotting in hell and has no idea what she's missing from her true destiny in Heaven. But that goodness inside of her can't be extinguished. She's an angel. She has a natural instinct to help human souls and fight evil. But because she was raised in Hell, she doesn't understand the complexities of sin that the elder angels would have informed her about. She's naive, and she certainly has to learn how to help guide people towards a brighter path, but she doesn't change her stance. So many times characters who believe in the good of people end stories with some pessimistic maturity where they realize that some people can't be helped. But Charlie doesn't change. Charlie stands firm at the end of the series believing that EVERYONE can be redeemed. It won't be easy, and you could argue it's not even fair, but she believes it. Lucifer chastises her, saying it'll take an eternity to change a sinner's mind, but she just smiles. Because an eternity is what she has, and she'll spend it helping people.

Also Chalastor is canon.

[things-arent-what-they-seem66]

Out of curiosity.

But what do you think would happen if Lucifer and Adam did become canon? Like we’re literally shown the story all fanfic writers do, with Adam becoming by a Sinner, getting himself accidentally into a deal with Lucifer, Lucifer having to confront Eden and discovering some of the things he knew were a lie, the two growing closer and eventually falling in love (Lilith either good or evil, don’t care but she was mean to Adam for some reason. She either lied about him being controlling or he was but because she screwed up at some point)

Like the whole enemies to friends in season 2. And friends to lovers in season 3 and 4. Since Vizi wants 6 seasons. Like they don’t need to be at the front of the show and can be in the background, we’re seeing it happen subtly in the background? Of course we’d love for it happen as main characters but we gotta admit lucifer isn’t really a main character and i think if Adam returns, he’ll be reduced the same sort of supporting role Lucifer is.

Personally I think their relationship developing in the back ground over two or three seasons would be much better. Maybe they could have a few main character moments. But as much as we think it won’t happen, we have to think it could happen. Considering Vizi loves these tropes too! And i know the whole ‘I’ll fuck you’ was a joke, it might be foreshadowing.

Lolll who really knows with Hazbin. I suppose it really amounts down to what Vizi chooses to do with Lilith. I sort of want Lilith and Roo to end up being the same person rather than Roo being Eve.

Lmaf i wonder if Vizi even knows about AdamsApple and how insanely popular it is? I thought it was like one of the lowest couples but i feel a ton of people joined ship with Alastor being confirmed as Ace.

As nice as that would be, it would need some serious character development from both on them to make it canon.

And yeah having their relationship evolve in the background of the show would be cool with some episodes just for them focusing on the more serious moments they would need to work out to not hate each other. They realistically wouldn't be friends until season 3-4 and the romance would come into play at the end of season 5 going into 6.

It would be a slow burn.

If the "I'm going to fuck you" is foreshadowing that would be great and funny lol