#everyone can be forgiven

[itsabouttimex2]

Not sure if you have covered this, but I’ll ask. How would you have gone about Macaque’s redemption arc…if it’s possible with how he was written before season four? No hate or debate, just curious. I like alternate takes on characters :3

Hmm okay I thought on this for a little bit, and the crux of my problem with Macaque’s arc is that he’s established late Season Three to be “not a bad person” when-

1. He enjoys hurting people

2. He goes out of his way to hurt people

3. He hurts many people

4. He expresses no regret or remorse for hurting people

5. He faces no consequences for hurting innocent people aside from his intended victims winning their fights against him

6. His victims are reduced to a hivemind of non-autonomous set dressings who have no feelings on his presence or past crimes

And he promptly just becomes a person that everyone is okay with despite everything. So, if we have to keep the “one good action is enough to redeem you for betrayal, deceit, slandering, multiple counts of assault and attempted murder”, then we need to shift some things.

So I think the best thing to do if we want the actual “redemption arc” to hit the way it’s supposed to in canon is-

1. Thin his list of victims

2. Thin his list of crimes to the point that one good deed is actually a reasonable atonement for all of them

3. Play up his victimhood at the hands of the Mayor

4. Establish his inability to escape from the Lady Bone Demon much sooner

If the crux of his arc is just being forgiven by ONE of his many victims and then becoming a good person, then we just need to sharply reduce the amount of victims he has to make the immediate and all-encompassing forgiveness feel more realistic.

When he’s “sieging” the city in Macaque, the Smoke Demon ignores everyone who isn’t MK and deals no structural damage, creating no victims aside from the Monkie Kid.

When he’s performing in Shadowplay, Macaque portals MK away to fight him alone, leaving everyone else unharmed, creating no victims aside from the kid.

Then, when he’s stolen away by the Mayor, either:

1. Lady Bone Demon implants him with her powers right away, preventing him from running away and immediately establishing him as desperate, or, what I’d argue for-

2. Send the Mayor with him.

When he receives the compass and is released, Macaque pulls a Bone Key-

and throws it away, trying to shadow portal away, only to be greeted by

The Mayor, who proceeds to outright accompany Macaque on this journey, thereby serving as a foil to Tang Sanzang.

Where Sun Wukong was taken under the wing of someone who genuinely cared for him and wanted to see him improve, Macaque is forcibly dragged along by an outright malicious figure who wants to see him rot.

(Fuck, have Lady Bone Demon give Macaque an ice circlet to seal the “foil” deal! Have him be forced into these actions in outright agony! It would help Sun Wukong sympathize with him, expediting the “forgiveness” that a redemption arc needs!)

In fact, every time Macaque tries to leave, or steps out of line or even just fails? You hear an offscreen thud and yelping and then when we get to see him next, there’s new bruises on his body, new tears in his clothes. His fur becomes messy. His eyes grow haunted.

Play up his victimhood to coax the audience into sympathizing with him.

Macaque tries to run. The Mayor hurts him. He tries to stall. The Mayor hurts him. He tries to argue. The Mayor hurts him. He tries to fight back. The Mayor beats him back into subservience.

Establish that Macaque has utterly exhausted all avenues of “escape” before he resorts to attacking the Monkie Kids, and even then, have him try to avoid the majority of them in favor of MK, only to be forced by the Mayor into actually fighting Mei, Tang, Sandy, and Pigsy.

So now every character understands why he’s doing this- and don’t have a reason to hold it against him or expect any further atonement because none of his worst actions (like sieging the Dragon Palace) actually need to be addressed- they aren’t his fault.

That basically solves all the problems I have with the “arc” as it stands, honestly.

[kelocitta]

The last thing I'll say, and I'm saying it because it applies broadly- is that there is very rarely a perfect victim OR evil mastermind and everyone needs to get better at recognizing and responding to that fact. Victims of legitimate crimes or horrible acts can be aggressive, or bitter, or biased or a dozen things that make them 'unappealing' to listen too. They can have willfully exposed themselves to content or been in circles they really shouldn't have. They could have been given warning signs that they missed or outright ignored. They might exaggerate or misremember their claims. That does not mean they are no longer victims. If you completely missed the red flags and were taken advantage of- you were still taken advantage of. If you exposed yourself to harmful content that was upsetting or distressing, you were ultimately still exposed to harmful content. Maybe it is "your fault" for being there, but you were still there and it still happened. Especially in terms of online, its just shockingly very easy to end up in places where you are in danger of harm- and its shockingly easy to not notice that you may have put yourself in that position until its too late. If you want to be supportive of victims, you need to recognize that very often victims did things that were inappropriate themselves, put themselves in harmful situations, didn't back out when they should have, missed "obvious" signs... and are still a victim in the end. Likewise, abuse ranges from the intentional to the neglectful. Sometimes an abuser can even do both at once. People do harmful things completely on accident- even repeatedly. It can be mental illness or stress, it can be a dozen things- but yes sometimes people have patterns of behavior that are harmful and destructive that they either aren't aware of, in denial of, or don't get how bad they are about it. That does not erase the harm those behaviors cause. If you handle a situation poorly, it could just be that you handled it poorly- you didn't think through your actions or their implications. But from the receiving end, it doesn't matter how accidental it was, its going to often read as intentional, or a pattern, or whatever. And ultimately the harm is still done regardless of what it was. There is a world of difference between harm done intentionally and harm done through stupidity, neglect, or plain old mistake- but it not always easy to identify which is which- and harm is still done in the end. Sometimes people are harmed because someone saw an opportunity to do so, and sometimes they're harmed because no one stopped to question if it was even a risk. Both of those still ultimately result in someone getting hurt. The point of this is that if you are ever going to analyze situations critically you can not be looking for just "the good one" and "the bad one". You can't just weigh initial impressions on a scale and hope one side tips further and call it a day. Believing victims doesn't mean you need to throw caution to the wind, but likewise bad actors or misinformation doesn't mean your reaction should be that there couldn't possibly be victims. Be very mindful of how you interact in situations where someone was potentially hurt. Being 'critical' can easily boil over into disregard for harm- both the harm the involved might have done to each other and the harm you yourself do in how you respond to it.

[tvboxi]

okay, the double standards--

old moon: "he hijacked my head."

solar:"he hijacked your head?!"

MONTY DID THAT?? HE DID THAT. TO NEXUS. DID EVERYONE FORGET? I DIDN'T! let me just pull up my receipts...yyyyup. he did. he electrocuted him until he passed out and then went into his head to talk to old moon about bringing old moon back and killing new moon.

BUT NOW. but NOWWW it's suddenly bad and awful to do that.

[respectthepetty]

IT ENDED WITH A SNEEZE!

"brilliant, incredible, amazing, show stopping, spectacular, never the same, totally unique, completely not ever been done before, unafraid to reference or not reference, put it in a blender, shit on it, vomit on it, eat it, give birth to it"

I loved it.

[vanityangel]

Forgive. Forget. Family.

[quietwingsinthesky]

was writing this down for an ask but realized i was quickly getting off topic for that ask lmao. let’s talk about Dean’s handprint, the wild misinterpretations of it, and how those have affected how people read Anna covering it during her sex scene with Dean.

We have to establish the obvious first: the number one way the handprint is misinterpreted is to establish a romantic connection between Dean and Castiel from their very first meeting. Because of how popular the ship is, we’re now left with the unfortunate aftermath of people knowing the ship first and the show second, and therefore being more inclined to interpret the show through the lens of the ship. Needless to say, while looking at season 4 through that lens for hints of destiel is fun, it doesn’t lead to a thematically cohesive reading. The handprint is the best way we can demonstrate this. If we take the handprint to indicate that Castiel has been romantically interested in Dean since minute one, or even that he sees Dean as a person rather than an instrument of Heaven’s will at first (put a pin in that), then the rest of his character arc for the season is incoherent and meaningless. To assert that this is what the handprint is about takes the conclusion Castiel needs the entirety of season 4 to reach and transplants it onto him at the very beginning in order to make it easier to find evidence for the ship.

There’s a lot of media out there where interpreting it through the lens of a ship, even one unintended by the author, can enhance the original text. (Lest we all forget our Winter Soldier roots.) Supernatural does not have that relationship to interpreting it to be about destiel. A season 4 where the handprint means Castiel is in love with Dean is a weaker story and does a huge disservice to Castiel’s actual character arc.

So, now that we’ve established what the handprint isn’t, can we talk about what it is? Yes. It’s pretty simple, actually.

Think of it this way: To Heaven, Dean is livestock, and the handprint is the brand telling everyone (but especially Dean) what ranch he belongs to.

Let’s start with the obvious: it isn’t a metaphorical brand at all. It’s literal. It’s burned into his skin permanently (or at least, when the makeup department wants to put it there.) I’d argue that from the nature of it being notable as the only scar Dean has from being raised from Hell and later showing up during his sex scene with Anna that even if we don’t see the handprint, we’re meant to interpret it as continuing to be there for… well. The rest of his life, most likely. And that’s horrifying. The handprint is telling us two things when it shows up: one, letting us know that Dean’s resurrection was intentional and through a manner we as the audience don’t have the information to guess at yet. Anyone who watched the show airing, or watches it now without knowing about angels would have assumed demonic deal intervention as being the cause of Dean’s new lease on life, and this. handily. discards that theory. But secondly, it tells us that this resurrection was violating. All resurrections on Supernatural are.

We assume from Castiel’s line, you know the one, we all know the one, Mr. Gripped-You-Tight, that he’s the one who put it there. However, to then make a further leap that it was Castiel’s personal decision to do so is, I think, a misunderstanding of his role. Take that pin out now. Dean is not a person to Castiel at this point. They’re not friends. Dean is a tool for Heaven to use, a tool that should be honored and grateful to be picked up at all. Make no mistake: Castiel branded him for Heaven, not for himself. Castiel’s a ranchhand. They aren’t in the business of letting the cows run free if they look a little sad to be slaughtered later.

Castiel needs to start here for his arc to be as impactful as it is. He can’t begin rebellious. He has to learn how to doubt. He has to develop a personal friendship with Dean that threatens his allegiance to Heaven. He has to see Anna having chosen to fall rather than obey Heaven and to be betrayed by Uriel being so desperate that he’s turned to killing their brothers and sisters trying to find a way out from under Heaven’s control.

There’s another line I think gets misinterpreted a lot in this initial meeting. “You don’t think you deserve to be saved?” On its face, easy bait for someone looking for shipping fodder, but that misses the actual point of the line. It’s a powerplay. We don’t learn until later why Dean wouldn’t think he deserves to be saved (aside from his general Winchester levels of self-esteem, but knowing that trait about him actually serves as a pretty good red herring to mask real reason Dean is thinking about himself as irredeemable now until the reveal. It’s not that Dean had a low opinion about himself in general, but that he tortured people in Hell and can never forgive himself for that.) , but Castiel does know. All of Heaven knows what Dean’s sin in Hell was. Without saying it, Castiel can remind Dean of it here. This line isn’t about Dean being so inherently good that Castiel had to rescue him. It’s about making sure Dean knows that the only way he can be ‘redeemed’ is through obedience to the heavenly powers who own his ass now. This is how he deserves to be saved. Because God commanded it. Because they have work for him.

And if he doesn’t bow? Then, as Castiel puts it in the very next episode, “I dragged you out of Hell. I can throw you back in.” This threat hanging over Dean’s head won’t go away for the rest of the season, not from Heaven. The only shift is that Castiel’s continued doubt and disobedience levels the playing field between them. They’ll both be punished, rather than Castiel taking on the role of disciplinarian. (It’s a really clever way of dealing with that power gap between them, actually. There’s always a bigger fish.)

The handprint and Castiel’s early conversations with Dean serve as a reminder of the precarious position he’s in. We shouldn’t take him ‘being saved’ at face value, no more than we should take Heaven being good just because they’re the angels in this equation as a given. Dean hasn’t been saved. He’s being used, just as much (if not arguably more) than Ruby is using Sam. (Because at least Ruby truly believes this is for Sam’s benefit, in the end.) And the worst part is how aware of it Dean is. How could he not be? His entire stint in Hell is defined by how Alistair used him. He’s just been handed off to a different owner, one that will still happily push him into the thing they ‘saved’ him from the minute it proves useful. Dean needing to torture Alistair reminds us just how little his circumstances have actually changed. He’s not allowed to say no to this.

So. The handprint is Heaven’s mark of ownership. It’s Dean’s status as their tool, their victim, burned into his flesh and inescapable. What does it mean when Anna places her hand over it?

I’ll lay my cards on the table. I’ve been thinking about this for so long because the aforementioned tendency to assume that the handprint is evidence for destiel means that the scene between Anna & Dean also gets lumped into being interpreted as more evidence for destiel. For over a decade, I have endured people joking about Anna being jealous of Cas for getting to leave a mark on their boytoy. And that’s one of the nicer things the Supernatural fandom will say about a woman who they perceive as a threat to their ship.

So, not to be rude or anything, but fuck Castiel. This ain’t about him.

This scene—It’s a lovely scene, a fantastic continuation of Dean and Anna’s previous conversation into the language of a sex scene—is about two people who have both been used and threatened by Heaven connecting over that shared trauma. Before, Anna gives space for Dean to open up about Hell, but he can’t, not yet, and though she knows what he’s gone through, she hasn’t been there herself. But when it comes to what Heaven has made of them, she does understand. It’s an incredibly vulnerable moment.

You make the handprint about Dean and Cas, and you erase what that scene is about entirely: the way Heaven’s abuse has tangled itself deep into Dean and Anna’s lives, into their bodies, and how they can resist it, if only for a few moments together.

The handprint was never about Castiel at all. It was about Heaven and its dehumanization of Dean.

[miekasa]

worst tropes

men dating women in the same career/field as them an get silent/bitter because she's having a big moment/is more accomplished than him

men dating women in time-demanding careers and then are upset that their careers demand their time

men with podcasts

men dating independent/emotionally unavailable women and then are upset that they are independent/emotionally unavailable

men who can't drive

best tropes

friends to lovers

men who can drive

love on purpose, love that's intentional, love that's not rotten work because it's you

[possamble]

Ohh okay it's just a theory. Thank god. The thought of "him dying prompted the continent to lift" straight up didn't even occur to me. I 100% assumed the implication was that it started happening as soon as the dungeon was destroyed, it just took a few days to reach the surface (and a few days more after that to fully re-emerge, as is stated in canon)

[navnae]

I just want Eddie to be the one to tell Steve that he shouldn’t feel anymore guilt about how he behaved at school when he’s grown from that, he doesn’t need to apologize anymore because as long as he can realize his mistakes there’s no need for him to blame himself for the past. I person think it’s stupid to keep throwing the past in Steve’s face when he’s clearly changed but for some reason something is always written the script to add more guilt and sadness onto his shoulders. STOP THIS NONSENSE!

[frobby]

Fukigen na mononokean doesnt really fit cleanly into the gagmangaverse but it would be really funny if it did because ashiya is implied to be related to ashiya douman

[mixmangosmangoverse]

Hello I'm randomly thinking about Healin Good PreCure for the first time in years and looking back at how wildly people misunderstood the point and expected every other season to follow a plot point that's very specific to it

[eternallovers65]

Thoughts about dramatrio as a forever viewer (and occasionally bad and baghera viewer)

RP WISE!!!! DON'T GO BOTHER THE CC'S

From q!forever's perspective, you can see how the dramatrio was always a duo and not a trio. qbad and qbaghera do not trust forever, and if they do, they don't trust him enough for their secrets.

- They never supported qforever during his presidency (qbad did vote for him, tho). qbad always complained about everything forever did, even tho qforever always tried to listen to him and everyone else.

- qbaghera did not told him the secret about her childhood, but she told qbad. Just like bad didn't tell qforever about the fed worker he kidnapped but he told qbaghera.

- "Oh but qforever took his waystone first" he did that because he asked for an item and no one helped him, so he got tired of helping people but no one helping him

- Also, qbaghera is dapper's mom, and qbad is pomme's dad. qforever was never included in this conversation.

- They say forever will get easily manipulated by the federation because he's the president, but yesterday both bad and baghera said they don't think cucurucho is bad

- They both banned forever from their houses

Anyway, they like to have forever around for the fun part of it, to joke and all but when stuff get serious they don't tell him anything and keep talking about him behind his back. And the only people that actually trust qforever is the favelafive

[hermitw]

Usually I forgive gege/sukuna for his crimes bc gege gives us so many beautiful images of true form sukuna and it takes me an hour to read a chapter bc I just. Keep looking at him. And he's one of my favorite characters.

But he's in time out rn!! Both sukuna and gege ughhhhh that was........ No.....

It can't be Chosover.

[gonnagobankai]

The reason why I can’t deal with either bnha or atla discourse is because I’m of the apparently controversial opinion that it doesn’t matter if it’s a result of child abuse, if your sibling is causing you great harm or trying to kill you (or helpless civilians and children) then you are fully within your right to cut them out or not take their feelings into account

Zuko doesn’t owe azula anything and the todoroki kids would not be selfish or inconsiderate for being angry at touya

[im-still-watching-anime]

one piece is crazy fr like what do you mean you’re following up Everyone’s Dead™️ with Objectifying Women: The Arc™️

[artykyn]

"Be careful about being mean to the poor geek, he might be your rich boss someday!"

"Be careful about being mean to the ugly girl, she might be hot someday!"

Listen I know the *intention* of tropes like this is "don't be mean" but what they actually teach is "if you want to be a bully, that's fine, but choose your victims wisely" and "if you're a victim of bullying, it's deserved. Put in the time and effort to be worth something"

So what if the "ugly" girl doesn't become hot one day? Does that mean it was okay to bully her?

Your "don't judge a book by its cover" stories have got to spend more time focusing on the consequences of being judgmental, and not at all on the victim needing to meet a standard to be judged by.