#every other run of robin93 feels comic book weird. mutants and aliens and wizards and whatnot

[welcometogrouchland]

Its all good man, I'm major busy atm too. Good point about how Steph's gender is a core part of her character in the sense that her female relationships are as important as, say, her experiences with gendered violence. I think a lot about her relationship to female mentorship, re: Cass, Dinah and Babs. All very complex relationships with a lot of rough patches but you can tell that when they're good, especially w/ the batgirls, all of them feel very...seen, I guess. Encouraged.

But yeah Steph and Nocturna's dynamic has been revisited approximately twice since this initial arc and i find both instances interesting but lackluster- there's one post-crisis in the gotham gazette mini, which is sort of a thematic prologue to Steph's batgirl run (lots of talk about how Steph's been left behind by the batfamily but is still fighting, how people return to Gotham despite everyrhing fkr a second chance- all of which shows up in Steph's BG run). Nocturna's comitting a robbery, Steph stops her (and weirdly has invisibility tech?? That she stole and is never brought up again??? Okay?) Its overall not a very significant interaction, just interesting that they pull on nocturna as a rogue for Steph instead of any of her dad's gang. I like that.

(Gotham Gazette: Batman Alive? #1)

Post-Flashpoint (and post-rebirth and infinite frontier...i think?) Steph and Nocturna interact in road to dark crisis #1 where we have a story about Nocturna taking advantage of Batmans 'death' to rob a museum, only to have a sort of hostile heart-to-heart with Steph, who talks her out of it. It's an interesting little appearance for multiple reasons? It seemingly tries to canonize every version of nocturna as one, using pre-crisis nocturna as a reference for flashback art, referencing her robin 93 version by having her already know Steph (and know her civilian name too weirdly? HC that was one of the things Steph told Nocturna on the roof ig) AND referencing her post-52 version just via design and whatnot.

(road to dark crisis #1)

Certainly doesnt work continuity wise but that was kinda the motto with the dark crisis era soft reboot. Also implies Steph was chillin' with Jason's adoptive mom. Funny to me

Anyway it doesn't get too into the weeds of nocturna and Steph's history and in fact most of it is actually about how they're feeling about Batman being gone (so, second time they've reunited post-batman seemingly dying. If i had a nickle, etc etc).

It's interesting to contrast how Steph feels in dark crisis compared to how she expressed herself in, say, world's finest #4, and it's also interesting that even tho Nocturna tries to needle Steph's insecurities (and she doesn't let it get to her, which, good for her!) implying she's inferior to the "real heroes", Nocturna seems to bring out some vulnerability in Steph.

It feels like it could tie into her whole ~lower inhibitions~ thing she had going on (could've been a cute use of the spoiler ninja mask actually) but that's not really said.

(road to dark crisis #1)

(sidenote: Clayton Henry is a very talented artist but man this may be the absolute worst the spoiler suit has ever looked post-flashpoint. Too shiny, Symbol is an off-purple shade and overlapping the paneling, no texture on the paneling. Frightening stuff here)

Again it's just an interesting pull for a Steph rogue and also interesting to me that they keep pairing nocturna with Steph during times of uncertainty/upheaval in Steph's life (not counting their first meeting which is actually one of the more stable periods of Steph's on-page life probably), considering how pre-52 nocturna was all about getting people to Reveal Truths n junk (via her weird girl astrology and pheremone powers).

Neither interaction references the 'sisterhood' they once shared (which makes sense bc it was only a few days in canon and ended w/ nat getting sent to S.T.A.R labs by Steph) but it still feels like there's untapped potential there between the two of them.

Finally re-reading Robin 101-104 (the nocturna arc) bc I remember being intrigued but overwhelmed the first time and looking back I really, really enjoy it (it's timsteph at their most enjoyable and has decent balance between the conflict in Tim's life and the inner workings of Steph's life, which was always unequal in Dixon's robin to the point of being slightly infuriating) but an interesting addendum to what you were saying a bit ago visa vie Steph's costume: Nocturna keeps saying to Steph "I see the colours you wear" as a means of arguing that her and Steph have some Fundamental Aspect in common. Which is potentially connected to womenhood/feminity? Said bc Natalia calls her "little sister" during the second time she mentions the colours Steph wears and bc Steph connects hers and Natalia's experiences of gendered violence in her head. I also mentioned in my comments on that post that the pink/purple colour choice feels connected to Steph's status as the 'young girl' character of the batman cast at the time (since Cass' character actively subverts a lot of teen girl stereotypes that Steph's character more incorporates and is in conversation with, Buffy Summers-style) so that feels like a personal win lol. Tbh a connection between Steph and Nocturna over ~feminine energy~ is kind of fitting from a modern lens considering like, modern tiktok influencer 'woo woo crystal energy' spiritual girlie phrases and buzzwords that sucker young girls into believing a bunch of borderline medievalist garbage.

Which got me thinking about Steph and Nocturna and how brief their relationship is but how interesting it is and how it's been referenced and revisited briefly in modern continuity but that's a whole other can of worms. Wish someone would take the time at DC to sort out the continuity between Nocturna's tbh, pre-crisis post-crisis and post-flashpoint all feel so different I can't reconcile them really, even tho post-crisis and post-flashpoint are meant to be the same(?) now.

Anyway yeah. Random Steph and Nocturna thoughts as I reread this arc! Hope they give some food for thought

Thank you for this! Im always so happy to see I got an ask from you, you always have such great Steph takes and thoughts.

I totally get how this arc can feel overwhelming. On one hand, I adore how much detail and nuance Jon Lewis brings to the table when it comes to Steph, and I definitely appreciate how we get so much of her internal monologue aside Tims, really emphasizing her perspective as a valid and important one. (As you point out, this stands fairly in contrast to Dixons approach). But on the other hand: there’s so much fucking internal dialogue. Swaths of it. It’s a lot sometimes, especially when it’s not broken up, and (for me at least) is sometimes easy to get lost reading.

(Also have to confess something: i didn’t realize Natalia was meant to be a version of Nocturna. Whoops. Definitely good to know, thanks.)

Big fan of the take about Stephs costume and femininity. Especially fun to look at this in contrast to Cass. Like you mentioned, Cass stands in contrast to the expected archetypes and trappings of a teen girl character, while Steph tends to conform to them. (Which is especially ironic to me given Cass begins with the explicitly gendered title ‘Batgirl’ while Spoiler is gender neutral.)

Steph being a female character is (for better or worse) essential to how her character is treated on every level. Misogyny and especially sexualization and sexual violence are kind of core parts of her character. Unlike Cass, Steph isnt detached from femininity, she is constantly reasserted to be part of it and hurt by her association with it, both through the sexual violence she is threatened with consistently and more than that through the way she can be narratively treated, dumbed down and villainized and discarded when convenient.

But Steph’s ‘femaleness’ can also be core to her character in a (somewhat) positive way. Her strongest familal relationship (while rocky) is by far her relationship with her mother. While pretty much every male relative in her life we see is some degree of absolutely shitty, Crystal and Steph’s relationship is deep and compelling and genuinely touching.

One of the first missions she gave herself as Spoiler was to track down Jim Murray: for the specific reason of protecting other young girls he might try to prey upon.

So given that, I’m interested the read of Steph’s femininity as connected to the purple of her costume. Given how often is Steph doomed or defined by her femininity I think it’s interesting to have it grounded in her costumes coloration as well, for better or worse.

Anyways, another bit of the connection between Nocturna and Steph and femininity which you got me thinking of is the moment where Steph tries to contact Natalia’s mother.

Maybe it’s just because I’ve had Crystal and Steph’s relationship on the brain so much recently, but it’s so interesting to me that Steph thinks to try to contact Natalias mom.

Especially as a character who we know spent a long long time seeing Crystal as unreliable or unsafe to confide in, and who Steph is at times more accustomed to seeing as someone she has to take care of instead of Vice versa.

Maybe this is because they’re in between these rough points right now. Steph is probably experiencing a high point in their relationship. (Crystal is clean and present, they’ve commiserated over how shitty Arthur is, and Steph has gotten a lot more time getting used to her mom wanting to be there for her.)

Good point about the whole ‘feminine energy’ spiritualistic stuff w Noctura retaining relevance, huge agree.

Their relationship is just generally very interesting, with the ‘little sister’ of course, and Steph seeing Natalia as a child to some degree, and their connection through music. I also find her convo w Steph with the stars just so enduringly touching, definitely a highlight for me.

(And who fucking knows w continuity at this point. It’s rough out here. Also, didn’t know her and Steph’s interactions had been revisited, that’s very interesting, good to know.)

Anyway great thoughts as always, thanks for the ask, and sorry this took like literally forever to respond to I’ve been stupid busy.