#even though Jack AND Quincey also both proposed to her!

[plutotunealouette]

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again and again until I die: the love and care that the suitor squad all have for one another without any resentment or jealousy over lucy is really really special and important

[vickyvicarious]

May 24, or: Lucy and the Three Suitors

The first was too straightforward, the second was too jolly, and the last was just right.

...Okay, it's not quite that simple, especially given that Lucy didn't describe Arthur's proposal in detail, but it's still interesting to notice the differences in their proposals and what that reveals about them as characters, or more specifically about their relationship to Lucy. Let's take a glance. (This wound up just being Lucy/Arthur propaganda, basically.)

John 'Jack' Seward

"number One came just before lunch"

"He was very cool outwardly, but was nervous all the same. He had evidently been schooling himself as to all sorts of little things, and remembered them; but he almost managed to sit down on his silk hat, which men don't generally do when they are cool, and then when he wanted to appear at ease he kept playing with a lancet in a way that made me nearly scream."

"He spoke to me, Mina, very straightforwardly. He told me how dear I was to him, though he had known me so little, and what his life would be with me to help and cheer him."

"He was going to tell me how unhappy he would be if I did not care for him, but when he saw me cry he said that he was a brute and would not add to my present trouble. Then he broke off and asked if I could love him in time; and when I shook my head his hands trembled"

"with some hesitation he asked me if I cared already for any one else. He put it very nicely, saying that he did not want to wring my confidence from me, but only to know, because if a woman's heart was free a man might have hope."

"he looked very strong and very grave as he took both my hands in his and said he hoped I would be happy, and that if I ever wanted a friend I must count him one of my best"

Number One obviously practiced for this. He rehearsed it in his head, had a clear script, and only broke away from that when it became very obvious that his straightforward and direct approach was upsetting Lucy. He cut himself off right away once he did notice, to his credit, but still seemed to hold hopes that perhaps this might be just because she doesn't know him well enough yet, or that he might hold out hope for the future. Depending on whether or not you think the suitors all knew they had shared affections for the same girl (I lean towards yes), then the hesitation kind of points towards him hoping it isn't what he already suspects to be true.

He knew he would be extremely nervous and attempted to hide his nerves by carefully and deliberately controlling his actions. But again and again, Lucy saw through him. I think his coming earlier in the day points as well to 'getting it over with', not letting his nerves build up even longer (especially if he knows the others are proposing too and if she says yes he won't get a chance). The way he spoke to her, very directly and clearly, points not only to nerves and trying to stick to things that are simple/difficult to bungle, but also to a more direct approach socially. He's not as comfortable with talking around things, he wants to be clear and direct. This isn't a bad quality but is one that might be difficult for Lucy if he expects the same from other people. She has already made a couple of comments that suggest she has a hard time being honest/direct with her words. If this man doesn't notice her unease until she is literally crying in front of him, he's probably not tuned in enough to be able to get her to admit when something is bothering her.

While he meant only the best, he was unable to easily read her feelings, and unable to hide the depth his own. He left Lucy feeling guilty that she couldn't reciprocate, knowing that by failing to do so she was causing him pain.

Quincey P. Morris

"number Two came after lunch"

"He is such a nice fellow, an American from Texas, and he looks so young and so fresh that it seems almost impossible that he has been to so many places and has had such adventures. [...] I know now what I would do if I were a man and wanted to make a girl love me. No, I don't,"

"he found out that it amused me to hear him talk American slang, and whenever I was present, and there was no one to be shocked, he said such funny things"

"Mr. Morris sat down beside me and looked as happy and jolly as he could, but I could see all the same that he was very nervous."

"'Miss Lucy, I know I ain't good enough to regulate the fixin's of your little shoes, but I guess if you wait till you find a man that is you will go join them seven young women with the lamps when you quit. Won't you just hitch up alongside of me and let us go down the long road together, driving in double harness?'"

"he did look so good-humoured and so jolly that it didn't seem half so hard to refuse him as it did poor Dr. Seward; so I said, as lightly as I could, that I did not know anything of hitching, and that I wasn't broken to harness at all yet. Then he said that he had spoken in a light manner, and he hoped that if he had made a mistake in doing so on so grave, so momentous, an occasion for him, I would forgive him."

"He really did look serious when he was saying it, and I couldn't help feeling a bit serious too"

"before I could say a word he began pouring out a perfect torrent of love-making, laying his very heart and soul at my feet. He looked so earnest over it that I shall never again think that a man must be playful always, and never earnest, because he is merry at times. I suppose he saw something in my face which checked him, for he suddenly stopped, and said with a sort of manly fervour that I could have loved him for if I had been free:—'[...]Tell me, like one good fellow to another, is there any one else that you care for?"

"That quite won me, Mina, for it was brave and sweet of him, and noble, too, to a rival—wasn't it?—and he so sad; so I leant over and kissed him."

"He wrung my hand, and taking up his hat, went straight out of the room without looking back, without a tear or a quiver or a pause; and I am crying like a baby."

Quincey followed right after lunch, right in the middle of the day. Once again, she saw that he looked nervous, but by and large he succeeds too well in hiding his own feelings from Lucy. This is the opposite problem from the last proposal. She notices his charm plenty, but because there is so much of it and because he does it so well, she initially feels that he is less sincere, or at least less vulnerable. Lucy is more moved by Quincey, and thinks he could win her over if she weren't already in love, but she also seems to think his charm is more generally polished and not as specific to her. In reality though, Quincey has been altering his behavior to please her and came with a planned proposal that he thought would make her happy. Once again, it didn't go the way he expected and he had to improvise, but the way he did so was different. He deliberately opened up and let her see how deeply he felt, and then that moved her much more than his lighthearted approach had. But he also noticed her emotions weren't quite matching his, and stopped himself. He noticed sooner, and she again responded to him more, but this was still after he had given his big speech 'before she could say a word', somewhat cutting her off. Once again, the communication isn't quite on a level, although it comes closer.

Quincey is more socially adept but also more likely to hold back his own feelings. He tells stories and jokes to please others. While he's generally more confident, I think the way it takes him so long to bare his emotions also can point to him having difficulty opening up like that. Sure, it was a strategy, but one that speaks to how he usually approaches difficult conversations. He's generally not as comfortable being so direct, at least about his own feelings (of course when he has to face that she doesn't return them, he isn't hesitant/is brave, and once he acts he does so resolutely). He's more similar to Lucy in this way, but maybe too similar, enough that it's hard for both of them to be serious/straightforward with one another. When he got her to take him seriously and it didn't work out, he retreated and she was left feeling guilty once again. Less so than before, I think, as she has more confidence in his ability to handle his own emotions, but that could also just point to her not being able to see him as clearly.

Arthur Holmwood

"Arthur tried twice to make a chance, and I helping him all I could;"

"it was all so confused; it seemed only a moment from his coming into the room till both his arms were round me, and he was kissing me"

"I am very, very happy, and I don't know what I have done to deserve it. I must only try in the future to show that I am not ungrateful to God for all His goodness to me in sending to me such a lover, such a husband, and such a friend."

Less to say here! But let's notice how it contrasts the others. While they had only one successful try, Arthur has taken three attempts to get out his proposal (counting this successful one). This could point to a couple of things - he sees her more often, he's alone with her more frequently but for shorter amounts of time, he's more confident he will be received well, he's having trouble holding his feelings back. I think it's probably a combination of all of the above. They've spent a lot of time together, enough to start rumors. Her mom likes him a lot and wants to spend time with him too, and perhaps thus interrupts them more. Lucy has also been trying to help him make chances, which he's noticed. And lastly, he doesn't even attempt to hide his feelings here.

Earlier, Lucy mentioned that she wasn't sure he loved her back, but it seems like that may be more her doubting herself than him trying to restrain his emotions. Because at least as far as we are told, he doesn't try to control himself at all. He also does not have a speech. Maybe this is down to the earlier failed attempts, and he wants to just get it all out now in a rush. But regardless, in this entry at least Lucy is able to clearly read his interest, and he can clearly read hers in return. Rather than the mistakes made between the others, there is no confusion here. They are both on the same page.

.

Any one of these men could have potentially won Lucy over in different circumstances. They all genuinely love her and they all have good relationships. (I love the way Lucy emphasizes that Arthur is her friend too, as well as the others.) But Lucy/Arthur is the couple we end up with. Partly this is due to pre-existing feelings. But I think timing aside, we also see that there are some communication difficulties with the other two men. Whether it's trouble noticing the other's emotions (Lucy for Quincey, Jack for Lucy), or difficulty communicating the depth of their own feelings (Quincey, Lucy), etc.

The usage of the planned and specific proposal vs. the more spontaneous and confused one illustrates this well. Lucy entries continue to have a focus on the ability to speak freely. Sure, we don't actually hear either of the couple speak directly here, but that actually points to them being so caught up in/openly expressing themselves that it's all just a jumble. There is no long stilted conversation, no one-sided speechifying. They're both involved, both equally caught up in emotion.

Not to get into spoilers, but... I think it's important for Lucy to be with someone who is able to tell how she is feeling, and communicate his own emotions clearly to her. It's a good match for her tendency to downplay or have difficulty expressing herself. While everyone could do well enough, the way the proposals are written set Arthur up as having the best ability to be open/get Lucy to open up as well.

Sure, her mother likes him, and he's rich and titled, but on an interpersonal level I think he is genuinely the best choice for her, not merely a safe one.

[gellavonhamster]

Jack, Quincey, Arthur for character ask meme! (aka Trio with some braincells that mostly just vibing)

Jack:

First impression: Honestly, I don’t remember what I thought of him when I read the book for the first time. I think I liked him, though less than I do now, but I cannot recall what was my very first impression when reading his chapters

Impression now: I love this very flawed but trying-his-best depressed romantic bastard with all my heart

Favorite moment: proposing to Lucy and almost sitting down on his hat and fidgeting with a lancet and overall being the opposite of the “calm”, “resolute”, “imperturbable” picture of him Lucy has literally just painted to Mina, because it’s hilarious and endearing

Idea for a story: *bangs fist on table* I want a prequel about the adventures of Jack, Quincey, and Arthur around the globe, and I want it NOW

Unpopular opinion: I think he handled being rejected by Lucy really well for someone who seems to be in a bad place mentally regardless. All his complaints are confined to his diary, it’s not like he’s going around whining about his broken heart. 

Favorite relationship: My favourite relationship for all three suitors is the three of them together, but I am going to try to say something different in reply to this question for all three of them. So, apart from the Trio with Some Braincells™ (you’re honestly being very generous with “some”, haha), I’m going to single out Jack and Quincey, because I’m going through a very bad case of “character you project on x your type” with them. And I feel slightly bad about it, because it’s pair the spares in a sense, but listen, if I’m not supposed to ship this then why on top of that sweet sweet friends-to-lovers opposites-attract shit everything Jack says about Quincey sounds like the verbal equivalent of the Twink Boutta Pounce meme

Favorite headcanon: All men in his family used to be doctors, so he kind of knew from his very childhood who he wants to be when he grows up. His position as the head of the asylum is probably inherited in some sense, that’s part of the reason why he got it so young (though not the only reason).

Quincey:

First impression: omg they have an American with a Gun, this is going to be fun

Impression now: I’d die for him but he wouldn’t let me

Favorite moment: his letter to Arthur! After reading about two men being rejected and one being favoured by the same lady, a reader would expect to see the three men in question as rivals, probably even hating each other, but then we get Quincey’s very fond, very warm letter, and it subverts all these expectations because SURPRISE, they’re actually friends who go way back and had adventures together and LOVE each other! I wish we got more of his POV in the book.

Idea for a story: I just think this world needs more stories in which he survives

Unpopular opinion: he’s not stupid. I mean, every man in the Crew of Light is a little stupid (affectionate), but you know what, he realized that something or someone must be drinking Lucy’s blood way earlier than Jack, who’s supposed to be the smart one, and he was their strategist when they went to purify Dracula’s coffins. This man is not just muscle 

Favorite relationship: apart from what I’ve already mentioned in Jack’s part of this ask, I really love his friendship with Mina. I think they’re alike in how they try to ease the burdens of the ones they love while suffering themselves and not letting anyone else see this suffering, hence this instant understanding, which manifests in how she meets him for the first time and immediately sees that despite all his toughness, he needs a hug and a kind word, and in how he’s the first to understand what she means when she asks the men to kill her if she turns into a vampire.

Favorite headcanon: he’s the only member of the Crew of Light whose parents are alive throughout the events of the book (if we want to be particularly cruel and canon-compliant, the only one whose parents outlive him). He also has a bunch of siblings, both older and younger, including some older brothers, which gives him an opportunity to keep wandering around the world with those Englishmen because there are other people to take care of whatever it is that makes their family rich (I imagine they definitely have a lot of cattle farms; I also like the idea I saw in one fic that they profit off the oil discovered on their lands). 

Arthur:

First impression: Look, Lucy, to each their own, but... of all three, why him?

Impression now: I have loosely expanded in my head whatever personality Stoker deigned to give him, and now I love him

Favorite moment: his army of dogs, dogs ex machina as I call them

Idea for a story: I’ve made a post about it some time ago but. Will someone write a short cute fic about him giving Lucy a puppy, that would be adorable

Unpopular opinion: I get where people who hate on him for being bland are coming from, but at least he’s nice and brave and did nothing wrong. Also, his best friends are like “adventures fuck yea, let’s shoot at whatever problem we have at hand!” and “what if I conducted this experiment that violates medical ethics”, and I just think that at least someone in this boy band has to be a normie, for the sake of balance

Favorite relationship: again, apart from the three suitors, I really like the father-son relationship he has with Van Helsing

Favorite headcanon: he’s good at socializing and conversing with people and similar things that come with belonging to high society, but it always ends up at a certain point with him being drained of energy, and then he just disappears to spend time alone at his estate, with his dogs and horses and the forest. In general, he loves nature and being in the woods. Unfortunately, that includes passion for hunting.

[mxcottonsocks]

The fact that Arthur has already made attempts to propose also potentially provides a bit of context for:

Why Lucy says with relative certainty, in her previous letter to Mina, "I think he loves me, [even though] he has not told me so in words" - if he's been trying to get her alone, that's a fairly clear sign that he has romantic and/or sexual interest in her;

Why Lucy and Arthur pretty much just fall into each others arms when they do finally find themselves alone. They've potentially been doing this dance for weeks, romantic tension building the whole time, and then when they finally succeed, the dam just bursts.

Why Lucy is so definitive in her rejection of her other suitors. She didn't really have to be - from what I understand, it was fairly common at the time for a woman to weigh up her options following a proposal. Lucy had the option to "to refuse, and yet not dismiss"* Jack and Quincey (and they knew that - which is why they both asked clarifying questions to gauge whether they had any chance of eventual success.) She obviously likes both of them quite a lot, and hates hurting them, so the fact that she didn't take this option implies that she knew that keeping them on the hook would hurt them more in the long run - because it was only a matter of time before she would become engaged to Arthur.

*Source for the quote "to refuse, and yet not dismiss" in paragraph 3: Shall Girls Propose? by 'a speculative bachelor' in 1893. I haven't read it as I'm struggling to find a version I can access, but it is mentioned and quoted in this article: "Some other girl's mediocre brother": Rejected Men in Nineteenth-Century English Culture.

Mr. Quincey P. Morris found me alone. It seems that a man always does find a girl alone. No, he doesn’t, for Arthur tried twice to make a chance, and I helping him all I could; I am not ashamed to say it now. Letter, Lucy Westenra to Mina Murray. - 24 May

This is such a sweet, often-overlooked Lucy/Arthur line.

By the time Arthur finally manages to get Lucy alone and propose to her, it's his third attempt. And she's been hopeful and eager and proactive --

❤...fully-aware mutual yearning...❤

[vickyvicarious]

Imagine you are Arthur Holmwood for a minute. You're a young nobleman, had a few adventures, have a couple of very good friends. You've fallen deeply in love with the same girl as said friends, and you all propose on the same day but luckily you are the one she chooses. She loves you back, and is excited to marry you. Even better, your friends bear you absolutely no resentment, staying as true as ever and even congratulating you. This is the best summer of your life.

...Your father isn't in the best health, and unfortunately neither is her mother. You both want to get married as soon as possible - all the more once you learn just how poorly her mother actually is. You want her to be able to see the wedding. But Lucy seems worse after her seaside vacation than she did before. It's not just stress. She looks ill too, very ill, wan and tired though she doesn't want to admit it at first. She doesn't want to worry you or her mother, but you insist that she allow a doctor to examine her.

Jack's a true friend, and answers your call even though he was rejected by Lucy such a short time ago. The very next day you're called away because your father's health is getting worse too. Suddenly, everyone around you is very sick, and in two of the cases the best you can do seems to be prolonging the end a little more. Once your father dies, you'll inherit his title, so even outside of love for him, there are duties you'll have to take up that are keeping you busy at his side. Jack's supposed to figure out what's going on with Lucy, and while he claims she is doing better he also has no idea the cause and has immediately called in a specialist, which is terrifying in its own way. And then a few days later he writes that she is worse. You can tell immediately he's trying to soften the blow, and rush back to visit - and thank God you did, because she's dying, she needs your blood given to her. Of course you do it, you'd do anything at all to save the woman you love. The doctor praises your bravery and lets you kiss her sleeping form, but they tell you not to stay, to go home and rest. You understand, they don't want to worry her by seeing how weak you have become. It's amazing how exhausted you feel. Is this how Lucy has felt all this time? At least the latest message from Jack says the operation was a success.

But then the messages get that familiar tone again, of trying to cover up a terrible situation, and then they stop altogether. Your father is gravely ill and you're all he has, you can't leave him but you fear Lucy may be doing just as badly. You're desperate, so you turn to your other best friend, ask him to please go and check up on the situation. You feel terrible asking both Lucy's rejected suitors like this, but you know they will stand by both of you. And once again you're glad you did, because the same morning he sends you a telegram that Lucy's mother has died. She'll never make it to the wedding now, but that's the least of your concerns anymore. You just pray that there will still be a wedding at all. Quincey claims she's doing a little better, but you've heard that before.

Sure enough, the next afternoon she asks for you. You already know what that means. Lucy, your Lucy who always puts others above herself, who had to be convinced to see a doctor in the first place for your sake rather than her own... She wouldn't ask for you when she knows your father is dying. Even with her own mother dead, she would try to be strong and to give you comfort; if she's asking you to come it can only be because she feels it may be her last chance. She thinks she is dying. ...And she is, that's apparent as soon as you arrive. You both try to be cheerful for one another, but you both know what's happening.

They won't allow you to remain by her side all the time. She looks to be in great pain. You're afraid to receive news of your father's death also. She asks for a kiss, but the doctor won't let you give it to her. She asks again, your Lucy who never asks for anything. The doctor physically throws you away from her. If this were any other time, any other place, you would have something to say to him - but Lucy is dying. And she cares about this doctor, seems to love him; and he's been here for her when you couldn't be. At least he lets you kiss her on the forehead.

And then she's gone. Only a few months ago, she was in perfect health. She was young and beautiful and so, so kind. She's the only woman you have ever loved, the only one you ever will. She's gone. You still don't know why. You were supposed to marry her this very month. Now she's dead, her mother is dead, your father will probably die soon, you have lost everything so abruptly and there's nothing you can do.

You break down and sob.

[gellavonhamster]

Lucy Westerna and Abraham Van Helsing for character meme! (Lucy could use a father figure and being alive; Abraham could use a daughter or two)

Anon, are you psychic or what, because recently I’ve been thinking of how in an AU where Lucy survives (for example, if the Crew kills Dracula before she has turned into a vampire, so the process gets reversed, like in case of Mina in the novel) and gets to marry Arthur, Van Helsing would probably be the one to lead her to the altar because both of her parents are dead and he’s the closest thing she has to a father figure... well now I’ve made myself sad

Lucy:

First impression: she’s cute, I don’t like her as much as Mina, but I definitely like her

Impression now: I wish I could protect her from everything bad that happens to her, but I can’t :(

Favorite moment: I love her earliest letters to Mina - for example, the one in which she described the proposals. They’re so much fun and yet unclouded by the impending doom 

Unpopular opinion: I don’t think she was in love with Jack and Quincey - or, rather, I don’t think she was as much in love with them as with Arthur. I like the idea of all of them being in a poly relationship (add Mina & Jonathan to that mix too), but I don’t think that in canon her “why can’t a girl marry three men” signifies anything else than her being upset that she had to hurt two people she really likes by rejecting them. Going into a more headcanon territory, I think she sometimes fantasized what it would be like to marry Jack or Quincey, or even - gasp! - to kiss them (this must be unrealistic because it’s Not Victorian Enough, I guess, but I’ve always pictured that one kiss she and Quincey shared as a proper kiss on the lips, which made her think “...should I say yes to him maybe” for a brief moment; the next instant she was already extremely ashamed of having thought that), but for the most part whatever feelings she had for them were friendship.

Favorite relationship: definitely Lucy and Mina. There are certainly things to be said about how Stoker writes female characters, but I think he did a great job at portraying the friendship between these two (which I also cannot help reading as at least half-romance, because hello? “She has more colour in her cheeks than usual, and looks, oh, so sweet”? “If Mr. Holmwood fell in love with her seeing her only in the drawing-room, I wonder what he would say if he saw her now”? “I love you with all the moods and tenses of the verb”?? Hello???

Favorite headcanon: she’s younger than Mina, and by the time Mina became a teacher (not yet an assistant schoolmistress), she was still a student. Sometimes Mina had to teach classes to her, which always involved Lucy trying her best to be a good student but in the end starting to grin or wink at Mina, while Mina would stare at her like STOP I AM TRYING TO BE AN ADULT

Van Helsing:

First impression: well, here we have the man, the myth, the legend, let’s see what he’s like without being filtered through the lens of modern pop culture

Impression now: the man, the myth, the legend is actually a weird uncle who adopts every younger person he meets, and I personally think it’s much better than whatever ~cool~ interpretations of him pop culture has produced

Favorite moment: making cocoa for - oh wait that’s not book canon. Pulling Jack’s ear, because I find it so funny that their dynamic is simultaneously a respectful relationship of two fellow scientists and Dad’s Here to Embarrass You in Front of the Girl You Like

Unpopular opinion: I am lowkey mad at him for suggesting that they leave Mina out of the vampire hunt because I’m not sure if the rest of the Crew would’ve made the same decision if he, their authority figure, hadn’t suggested that (at least I don’t think Jonathan would’ve kept secrets from his wife). Still love him, though

Favorite relationship: What I said above about him and Jack + him and Arthur because Van Helsing’s lost his son and Art has just lost his dad and I find it beautiful how they fill these voids in each other’s lives 

Favorite headcanon: Quincey Harker calls him “grandpa” :’)

[gellavonhamster]

me: wait, didn’t I make a reference to Dracula* in The Eye of the Storm, or A Still Life with Pineapples? Isn’t it factually incorrect? I wrote that one quite some time after reading this novel for the first time. Did I accidentally make Lemony freaking Snicket, of all people, misremember a book because the fic writer (me) is a dumbass?

but phew, turns out I didn’t:

When we understood that both of us were in love with her, we promised each other that we wouldn’t let that circumstance ruin our friendship. There is an absorbing Gothic novel in which three friends propose to the same girl, and remain friends after she chooses one of them. Similarly, my friend and I both courted Beatrice, leaving it up to her to choose one of us and not expecting that in the end, just like in that novel, there would be three contenders for her heart, and it would be the third one that she would favour. One could only hope that at that point, the similarities with the novel would end, although taking into account Beatrice’s fondness for bats, she would surely be amused by the prospect of being turned into a vampire.

(I was somehow convinced that I wrote “we promised each other that we wouldn’t let that circumstance ruin our friendship” about the suitors, who do not explicitly make that promise to each other in the book (though, imo, that might well have happened off-page), not Lemony and Ramona, but I didn’t, it’s fine)

Also, it amuses me now that in my head, based on how I personally write these Snicketverse characters, I can expand this reference by drawing parallels between Lemony and Jack (the narrator, depressed, bit of an asshole at times), R and Quincey (charming, fun, tries to cheer up her friends even when feeling down herself), and Bertrand and Arthur (extremely nice, blond, the one to marry the girl of everyone’s dreams in the end). 

*ok, I know y’all didn’t sign up for this, I am sorry I keep talking about it, I’m actually sitting on my hands not to talk about it more