#even in da2 where the outcomes are usually very hurtful

[tethrarisms]

DAV spoilers

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Nothing against all the following characters but as a Varric fan since DA2, it feels like a punch in the stomach when you learn that his sacrifice meant absolutely nothing. Solas wouldn't stop tearing the Veil apart if not for Mythal. And if you bring your Avellan Inquisitor, it's only a plus. I'm not saying they didn't deserve a happy ending, I think Solas had an incredible redemption and it fits him to spend his eternity with his partner in the Veil.

But Varric spent a whole decade feeling responsible for Solas and did what the Inquisitor couldn't due to DAI's consequences. Harding doesn't say a word when he's gone for "plot purposes". She only addresses his death when she's bashing Solas in the final fight. Which sucks. The "villain" got his happy ending while Rook lost his mentor and one of the their friends (which I still think will be solved in a DLC but that's for another time).

Varric's death serves no purpose for the narrative whatsoever. It doesn't push Rook towards improvement because, first of all, Rook wouldn't have to go through a sudden grief if Solas didn't use blood magic to alter their mind. Rook would have forgiven themselves for Bellara/Neve and Davrin/Harding in the Veil just fine. Rook didn't know about Varric, it was a result of literal gaslight, not a personal journey like the usual protagonists go through all over media.

Oh, and what about leadership? Dude, Varric says a single statement of encouragement and that's it. Talk about underdeveloped dialogue.

Lastly, Solas doesn't even address it when he's about to complete the ritual. Varric meant nothing to Solas, and that was kinda up to interpretation in Inquisition, but not in Veilguard. Because Solas doesn't even flinch and it's not brought to the table at all.

If anything, Varric deserved more than just a Lion King cloud. It's kinda insulting, honestly. The potential Veilguard has a game is huge but it feels rushed and underdeveloped in so many points.

No shame to writers, BioWare sucks for what they did and fuck capitalism. But this decision was disappointing for how much Varric not only carried this franchise for years and was one of the main points to promote the game. It felt disrespectful even how they gave the players some hope that he would be fine.

I hate it. I really do, and that's the main reason it gets so hard for me to replay Veilguard. It's low when the narrative lies to the player (this is far from a prestigious media like, idk, Fight Club and The Sixth Sense. It makes sense for the plot. That's not the case for Veilguard).

Anyway, good for people who are able to enjoy a second experience. I'm trying but I'm still stuck at the ritual scene cause I know things will change forever :')

[squirrelwithatophat]

Same.

Programming-wise, it definitely wouldn’t be difficult to include more romance-specific dialogue, to at least make each play through feel more unique even without any deep or substantial changes. All that would take is getting the actors to voice more lines. The writers could also pin extra information (background, lore, internal/emotional reflections) about the Ll on the active romances — for example, having Dorian delve into more detail about coming to terms with his sexuality, his coming of age as the son of a magister, and so forth if romanced. Or maybe throw in more pre- or post-mission chats, with the LI worrying about you or expressing fear/hurt at being left behind. Using banters and conversations, there could be more roleplaying elements regarding the nature of the relationship and characteristics of the LI during the romance. We see something like this in a non-romantic context in DAO, where potential dialogue choices could be used to indicate not only different attitudes and beliefs but fundamentally different backstories, personality traits, interests, etc. With the romance, there could be dialogue options referring to the pace and intensity of the relationship, the PC's romantic/sexual history and experience, etc.

It would also be relatively simple to have scenes where they could swap out different characters (with different accompanying dialogue) depending on who the LI is supposed to be. In DA2, for example, the quest Best Served Cold (Act 3) varies which character ends up being kidnapped by the conspirators — typically the surviving sibling, but otherwise the LI (if both siblings are already deceased). So you only get to swoop in and rescue your LI if you deliberately get the younger sibling killed off in the Deep Roads in Act 1 by dragging them down there without your Warden buddy. There are obviously many more potential options than a Damsel in Distress plot. For example, the LI could refuse to be left behind on a certain especially dangerous and/or personal mission (thereby providing an in-universe rationale for locking them into the party for that quest), then have them step in to defend the PC at a particular moment. Or there could be a particular one-on-one quest, reserved for the LI, that doesn't specifically revolve around romance.

In addition, the game might alter particular scenes or quests depending on the LI (if present). There are definitely a number of quests in the Dragon Age games where it seems like there should be differences (at the very least an additional cutscene in the quest or a post-mission chat) if a romance is active.

Incorporating plot changes with branching options depending on LI would be a lot more difficult (or at least effortful and time-consuming), but all other things being equal (and that's a big "if" right there), it would make each play-through much more rewarding. RPGs generally heavily restrict player choice in order to avoid ending up with a massive game with 20,000 different combinations and outcomes, so unfortunately the developers would probably end up cutting player choice and eliminating potential branches elsewhere to compensate for introducing plot changes based on LI choice. But there are definitely places where it would make sense for LI choice to cause broader plot/story changes in the Dragon Age series. We have more differentiation in DAO (as per usual), although this doesn’t occur until towards the endgame — only a male Cousland can marry Anora after the Landsmeet, thereby becoming Prince Consort over Ferelden, and a romanced Zevran can be persuaded to remain on as a side lover; only a female Cousland can marry Alistair and become Queen of Ferelden (with Loghain executed and the Dark Ritual performed); Alistair will sacrifice his life to save his lover even if she wants to inflict the final blow (if the Dark Ritual is not performed and Alistair is taken along to fight the Archdemon, meaning that one of them must die); only a (male) Warden who romanced Morrigan can follow her through the Eluvian, potentially raising their child together (with the Witch Hunt DLC). Sticking these branching options at the end is obviously much easier, given that they don’t have to write that many canon AUs into their own game. By the third game, which reintroduces the old characters from DAO, they collapse all these branches back into one (along with negating other previous player choices)— no matter what happens, a living Warden mysteriously disappears several years after defeating the Archdemon and is reported to be seeking a cure for the Calling though may at least temporarily reunite with their LI in the epilogue (i.e., returning to Leliana).

In DAI, especially given the position of political and religious prominence your protagonist enjoys, it does feel like there should be at least minor plot changes with at least some of the LIs. Dorian especially, considering that he's the son of a powerful reformist Tevinter magister, and the villains are mainly Tevinter magisters and fanatics from a despised Tevinter-based cult and their slaves/dupes/puppets. There's Dorian's personal quest involving confronting his homophobic father over the blood magic conversion therapy incident, but that's not at all romance-specific (or even tied to approval) nor does this apparently have ramifications beyond the personal. It's not even like Magister Halward Pavus or his buddies or intermediaries send you extra money, offer more help, or improve ties with Tevinter if you reconcile him with Dorian either. It's all about the father-son relationship. To be clear, I'm not saying this a bad thing in itself — what I mean is that I think there should have been more Dorian-specific Tevinter content or story that wasn't just about internal family matters. (And maybe I’m just a little biased). In general, Dorian's mere association with the Inquisition should have political ramifications, although we only see them pop up in sporadic references to reformist allies back in Tevinter (mainly Maevaris Tilani) in the text of War Table missions, but the romance seems like it ought to be just... a huge goddamn deal. Mother Giselle has a couple of lines complaining that fellow Chantry members are gossiping about this Tevinter aristocrat's "influence" over their treasured prophet, and in one banter Vivienne recalls receiving a letter from a Tevinter magister whinging about Dorian's relationship with the Inquisitor (about which she reports politely telling the guy off), although it's unclear to me whether the objection was on political, religious, or simply homophobic grounds. But that's basically it? No one tries to interfere (other than that quiet 10-second aside from your ally Giselle, who backs down easily) or conspire against the relationship, this doesn't tangibly affect relationships with other members of the Chantry, nor does it elicit any greater assistance or antagonism from Tevinter. Maybe the lack of reaction coming from Tevinter could be attributed to Dorian already being a bit of an outcast or self-imposed exile. But the number one closest person to the new prophet of Andraste — now leader of the largest military force under the Orlesian Chantry, the only person who can stop the apocalypse, a kingmaker in one of the largest countries in the known world (at least post/Wicked Eyes), someone whose status and influence has become so great that proximity to and endorsement from them is enough to determine the equivalent of the next pope — is an elite from an Official Enemy Nation under a religious denomination deemed heretical (to the point of meriting execution) in all lands under the Divine... and this has almost no effect on anything. It's barely even talked about either. You could say some similar things about the Iron Bull relationship too; a Qunari spymaster not simply working with but in a passionate romance with the Inquisitor. Realistically, people would read into this an intent to pursue closer diplomatic ties with or expand religious toleration towards the Qunari (similar with Dorian and Tevinter) and adjust their behavior accordingly, but I don't recall this happening.

No shade to poly romance mods or anything — in fact, I love ‘em and have them installed for each game — but if you can keep four (or five or six) romances going at once without creating a buttload of conflicts and inconsistencies, the romance is probably a pretty minor element of the overall story. Whether that’s good, bad, or neutral obviously depends on your perspective.

Personally, though, I tell myself every day that the Solavellan romance will have massive plot and character development implications for DA: Dreadwolf, because I need something to hold onto until they release the next game.

A thing I wish the Fade section had: additional dialogue from Nightmare if you brought your LI with you to the Fade. I get that the way who you're romancing (if you're romancing anyone at all) kind of gets forgotten outside of the actual conversations that are part of the romance is a limitation of the game since they can only have so much situational dialogue without the main dialogue starting to sound weird, but it would be nice if it got acknowledged occasionally! That's all I'm saying!