#ep: 3x15

[justyncase]

wesley wyndam-price my beloved <3333 if he has no fans i am dead

[juanabaloo]

we were robbed of a great Consequences Faith line! i'm a big Faith Lehane fan, obvs. i feel like one of her weakest famous lines - despite Eliza's good delivery - is this one in Consequences:

ANGEL: You can't imagine the price for true evil. FAITH: Yeah? I hope evil takes Mastercard.

that line needs a harsher ending IMO, or more syllables or something. ANYWAYS apparently there was another exchange in the script that wasn't aired. it would have picked up RIGHT AFTER the Mastercard line.

ANGEL: You and me, Faith, we're a lot alike. FAITH: Well, you're kind of dead... ANGEL: Like I said. A lot alike. FAITH: Sorry, buddy. I'm alive and kicking. In fact, I've got a bodily function that needs attending to pretty quick here. ANGEL: You're not alive. You're just running. Afraid to feel. Afraid to be touched... (Faith averts her eyes, then speaks) FAITH: Save it for Hallmark. I have to pee.

(source)

I'm sorry?? Save it for Hallmark, I have to pee? THIS is GOLD. (*snort* pun not intended) Much better than the Mastercard line and still very Faith.

(also OMG Angel projecting his own issues onto Faith is just so very on brand and consistent and yet very flawed. like i'm glad he eventually does get Faith to admit she did wrong but overall his attempt here gets a C- from me.)

TLDR: my new favorite Faith line is SAVE IT FOR HALLMARK, I HAVE TO PEE!

[aspecbuddie]

can't believe they mentioned christopher's hamster exactly once and then never again

[chaosandwolves]

Something about the lightning being the reason for the collapse of the well

Being the reason Eddie makes Buck Christopher's legal guardian, makes him family (a dad) .

Something about the lightning almost being the reason taking Buck from Chris (while becoming a "father")

Something about Buck not getting to Eddie and trying to get to him with his hands only.

Something about Eddie not being able to get to Buck while he hangs there, not being able to pull him up with his hands only.

Something about Buck wanting to go down the well, something about "so we can end up with two cut lines?"

Something about Eddie rushing up the ladder, no thoughts given about the danger, something about Buck hanging on that one line.

I'm not ok

[gleepolls]

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[on-this-day-btvs]

February 16, 1999

Consequences aired for BTVS season 3, episode 15. At the start of this episode Faith has accidentally killed a man, in the previous episode Bad Girls. By the end of this episode Faith has intentionally made several poor choices, including blaming Buffy for the accidental killing to Giles and assaulting Xander. She also officially joins The Mayor.

This is the last appearance of Mr. Trick. He appeared in five episodes, all in S3. Mr. Trick was played by K. Todd Freeman, who originally auditioned for the role of Spike.

[asexualjedi]

O’Brien after this episode walking past Julian and Garak argue in the commissary: hey… wait a minute

[maximilff]

again with the maya parallels. ow

[piperslovebot]

Loving the Grace, Denise, Laura trio

[themoonandthedogstar]

okay but wtf was Bonnie not being at the Mikaelson ball or even mentioned in that whole ep, just for 3x15 to start with Bonnie testing a spell Elena saw whilst listening to her rant about Damon the next fucking day?!?

Bonnie should’ve been at the ball especially because that’s where Esther - who is channeling the whole Bennett bloodline - did the spell that linked the originals

[charismaticsage]

Hi, IDK if you answer Klamille asks anymore but if you do, please tell from where everyone found out that in 3x15 after Cami told Klaus she didn’t love him anymore, Klaus was supposed to go back to her to tell her that he would return for her. I can’t find any source for it but it seems like a common consensus in the fandom that this was a deleted scene.

Are there any other Klamille deleted scenes you know of and could you point me to sources?

So one of the many failings of TO writers is they would cut things, or underwrite things so they’d have to explain it on twitter. Carina Mackenzie was the most active on twitter (to her detriment—90% of the time because she’d end up fighting stans). I believe she wrote the episode, and she had this to say when asked:

Carina also had the annoying habit of deleting tweets. So if you can’t find it, this is why. This tweet is still up.

Anyway this would’ve been a beautiful scene, as the one we get in the final cut does feel like something is missing. If you didn’t know, the decision to kill Cami was not the initial plan for the show and you really feel it in her storyline pacing. It’s clear they were building to Cami gaining control over her vampirism, being in a relationship with Klaus, and helping Hayley in the time jump while TO were imprisoned (or whatever Idk what happened bc I quit watching after 3x19). Remember 3x18 being a Hayley/Cami team up? It was to build up their brains/brawn dynamic so they’d work together in the future. THAT’S why they made Cami a vampire, so she wouldn’t age in the time jump. Either 3x19 or 3x20 would originally be Klaus and Cami reuniting, being together, having a sex scene, etc. before shit hits the fan for the finale. That’s the pattern for the show, the lull before the big finish in the last 3 eps. That’s why they played up the klamille angst, the themes of Cami’s struggle with vampirism, Lucien telling Cami “against vamps humans always lose”, and Aurora antagonizing her. We were originally going to get payoffs for ALL of that build up, but it went nowhere because they decided to make the DUMBEST decision ever and kill Cami. It halts the pacing of the season, it doesnt make sense, and it led to the following episode getting the lowest ratings in the shows history up to that point (I always have to point that out).

This everyone’s 2025 reminder that Camille O’Connell, the Brave Bartender, deserved better.

[bisidneycarter]

Guys I've got sad news. I'm like 90% sure its true... Jude tindall has died (sister boniface and shakespeare and hathaway creator and writer of my favourite father browns (think 3x15, 4x01 and the panto xmas ep etc) She also wrote me a letter in response to one i sent. I'm really really so upset. Of all the screenwriters :((

[catmomjudy]

So, I just read a comment about Helena treating Christopher like an invalid. I’ve been really careful with this one because I’m pretty sure this is a fanfiction trope.

I dug around in the transcript of “Eddie Begins” recently when I did my Army Eddie meta (and when I was looking for the “drag him down with you” conversation). I also just looked at the post-funeral conversation in 2x18. The only other episode she was in (other than 7x10) was “Hero Complex” (5x17), and that centered more on Eddie and Ramon.

Canon Helena:

Corrects Eddie for serving juice wrong (3x15). Although this is a common mother/MIL trope when dealing with babies/children.

Thinks Eddie works too much (3x15 & 2x18)

Thinks she’s spent more time with Christopher than Eddie has (“your father and I are the only constant in his life. We have been there almost every single day since the day he was born. You can't just take him away from the only stable thing he's got left. He belongs with us.” 3x15)

Tells Eddie that Chris should live with them “permanently” (3x15)

Thinks Christopher should be with family (which she said right in front of Pepa and Abuela) (2x18)

Urges Eddie to move back to El Paso after Shannon dies so that Christopher can be near family (2x18)

Tends to using a caring voice and act empathetic while telling Eddie everything he’s screwing up and offering to take his son off his hands for Eddie’s own good (3x15 and 7x10)

Said to her son “Don’t drag him down with you.” (3x15)

7x10, if you rewatch the scene, reiterates these ideas.

Canon Helena is all about Christopher and not very supportive of Eddie at all. She wants to take Christopher off of Eddie’s hands rather than lending the support Eddie needs while he gets back on his feet. I have opinions about her, for sure. But there’s no indication that I can see that she’s ableist.

Is there something somewhere that I’m missing? Something said in passing in another ep?

[erikiara80]

A beautiful Byler-Polivia parallel

Olivia Dunham is Subject 13, and she has the ability to see and travel to the parallel world. In ST there are many mentions of the number 13, and that could be a hint that there are different timelines or a time loop, not actual parallel worlds. Will mentions the number 13 in the very opening scene.

Will-Olivia parallels

It was a seven. I read many interesting theories about this moment and Mike's strange reaction. That maybe Will is in a Vecna vision, and that's why the lights flicker and "Mike" looks confused and doesn't know what Will is talking about.

Those "eyes" definitely seem to suggest that Vecna is spying them.

But if this Mike is actually Vecna, shouldn't he know about the game and the Demogorgon? He can read minds, wouldn't he at least try to smile?

Then I remembered why this scene seemed familiar. It reminds me of a scene of Fringe, ep 3x15, when Olivia, who can't control her powers yet, travels to the parallel world and for a moment sees the other Dr Bishop, who is quite surprised by what she says (in 3x15 Olivia also meets Peter for the first time)

So, this is just a thought, but I wonder if, when he talks to Mike, he's seeing a Mike from another timeline, or a different memory. Maybe a timeline where Karen interrupted the campaign earlier, or Will rolled the dice and won? That would explain Mike's confusion.

And now I'm thinking about other parallels

The zeppelin and the Rainbowship

The first time Olivia sees the parallel world, she draws this

What if Will didn't just imagine the rainbowship, but drew what he saw, like he drew the vines? Nina kinda looks like a rocket. So, more connection between Will and the experiments.

(EDIT: The First Shadow spoilers) Now we know that in 1943, the ship of Brenner's father wound up in Dimension X, during the Philadelphia Experiment, which was connected to the Rainbow Project. So, maybe Will's rainbowship is a reference to that

But back to Olivia and Will. Here she's drawing while the adults are talking about her, and Will is drawing while Joyce and Hopper are talking with Owens, who gives major Walter Bishop vibes, and even has a son named Peter.

Byler and Polivia, the parallel of their first meeting

The rainbowship is mentioned in the shed scene, the same scene in which Mike reminds Will of the first time they met.

In 3x15 Olivia draws the Zeppeling, and in the same episode Peter finds her sketchbook and sees her drawing of the field of white tulips. Her drawings, that are connected to her powers and visions, help him to find her. And this is a beautiful parallel with Will and Mike, because Peter's life changes when she meets Olivia. They talk about her abusive father (in the shed scene Jon mentions Lonnie) and it's after they talk in that field that Peter decides to accept his new family and his new life.

Asking Will to be his friend is the best thing Mike has ever done, and their lives changed too, when they met.

Like I said, I don't think there are parallel worlds in ST, just different timelines, because for some reason they're stuck in a loop. They mention time loops a few times, and Max even mentions it when they are in Henry's house.

In S2 Nancy tells Murray that his timeline is wrong, and in his letter Hopper says that you can't turn back the clock. But then Henry does it in the flashback. There's also this Back to the future line: The appropriate question is 'When the hell are they?'

And if there's really a time loop, I think Will and Henry can see other timelines or maybe the timelines are merging? There are so many hints.

From Will's Marty Mcfly outfit in S1, to Henry seeing the Mind Flayer when he was a kid. The crystal ball in the Will the Wise drawing, used by clairvoyants, the Forever Clock that Dustin gives to Will, Will's name engraved on the grandfather clock and him saying, in his Will the Wise outfit, that he's seen into the future. If they're stuck in a time loop, then the future is actually the past, since the story has repeated itself many times. Steve and Robin even mention the whole going back to future/present thing.

In 4x01 El says that they're all time travellers, so yeah, if Olivia can see and travel to a parallel world, maybe in ST people can see (or travel to) different timelines of the timeloop.

Eleven, Twelve and Thirteen

In the Nina scenes I noticed that Thirteen is often in the frame with El or Twelve (who I think represents Will). At first I didn't understand why. She never speaks or interacts with El. And I didn't know why they cast a girl that looks like young Millie. The actress said that the crew kept telling her that she looked like Millie, and before S4 many fans speculated that she would play El. Everything means something in this show, and the casting is always on point, so I thought maybe they want us to notice something? Then I remembered that Olivia was Subject 13.

So that kid could be a subtle hint that we're seeing different timelines in Nina. From the beginning, when El wakes up and see the rooms of Four and Nine. 4+9=13

Twelve and Thirteen

Twelve and Thirteen in the Rainbow Room. It's interesting that in both these scenes they focus on 12, "Will", and 13, who looks like little El, after they show the twins. Willel, twins, and different timelines...

Brenner and Thirteen's room

Thirteen and Eleven (and Twelve)

I really think that Thirteen is a reference to Olivia, and since Olivia can see parallel worlds, maybe this is a hint at the ability to see/travel to other timelines. I already thought that El was seeing different timelines, and that she was actually there, with her mind, but this is a nice detail.

*Another interesting 13 mention. The 13th birthday of a kid named Georgie. George, like George Smith in the play? We know that Will's birthday is important, and since this scene is about his parents, I think this mention is connected to both Will and Henry/Edward

Hm, a bit lost, because of other timelines/a time loop?

Anyway, I love Fringe and I love that ST has so many parallels with such a beautiful story.

[tiggymalvern]

Listening to the Burn Noticed podcast for 3x15 Good Intentions, and the podcasters are having an argument over whether it’s weird for Fiona and Sam to be hanging out at Madeline’s house when Madeline isn’t obviously around (specifically the scene where Sam puts a bug in Fi’s phone). Bri thinks it’s likely Madeline was initially in the scene, but she got cut for time. Chris thinks it’s just normal behaviour for them to drop in whenever. “Sam lives right next door.”

Bri: “So then go to Sam’s house.”

Chris: “They can’t go to Sam’s house! He lives with Miss Reynolds and her mother. How much do they know? They can’t be putting together bombs and bugs and shit at Miss Reynolds’ place.”

This is something that’s always made sense for the set ups in Burn Notice. Even if Sam’s girlfriends do have a pretty good idea of what he does (Veronica knows a fair bit, from what Sam tells Michael), he wouldn’t want to keep anything dodgy at their places. If he ever did get arrested, they would be implicated as soon as their house was searched, and in this ep we learn specifically that he keeps his document forging kit at Michael’s loft. It works for the show because it gives Sam an excuse to spend so much time hanging out at Michael’s loft and Madeline’s house without it looking gay. It comes up again at the start of season four, when Madeline's converting the garage for a lodger and Michael and Sam look at one another in horror and they're all, "We keep things in the garage!" Any normal mother would think the garage was just their innocent gay sex dungeon, but Madeline knows better 🤣

[gleepolls]

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