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flameontm · 3 years ago

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BASICS

FULL NAME: jonathan lowell spencer storm; goes by johnny to most, john on occasion (but only to sue, reed, ben & wyatt wingfoot) ALIAS: the human torch AGE: 23 AFFILIATIONS: fantastic four GENDER AND PRONOUNS: cisgender, he/him FACE CLAIM: evan roderick

IN-DEPTH ANALYSIS POINT OF ORIGIN: comics ( 616 verse ) ABILITIES/SKILLS: johnny has his plasma form, in which he transforms his entire body into fiery plasma; additionally he can use pyrokinesis to generate shapes and manipulate these flames into weapons, extending outside his body. he has the ability of flight, as well as fire immunity, cold resistance and thermokinesis. his most powerful form and rarely-used power is his nova flame – this is the highest, hottest level he can create, but he cannot maintain this for as long as his ordinary flame. it has around the power of a nuclear warhead detonation and he can use it in the form of a burst to devastate the area around him. extensive use of his powers typically exhausts and weakens him. HAVE THEY BROUGHT ANY FAMILY OR PETS WITH THEM: to be determined depending on other potential players, but for now i’m gonna say the whole fantastic family is here: sue, reed, ben, alicia, franklin and valeria. johnny isn’t grateful for much in this new world, but at least they’re all together. that’s all the fantastic four have ever needed for johnny to believe they can win. ANY HEADCANONS YOU WANT OTHERS TO KNOW:

- the basics: despite his young age, johnny’s been in the superhero business a long time, having helped his sister, her boyfriend and her boyfriend’s best friend steal a rocketship and head to the stars. their run-in with cosmic radiation changed them all into superpowered beings and they became their world’s first superhero team, with johnny still in high school.

- inferiority complex, oh boy. the ff never had any secret identities, so johnny’s life changed overnight when he became the human torch. one day he was a lonely teenager, with no friends, no parents, and no potential. the next, he was famous, a superhero, a teen icon and sensation. he loved his powers, loved the attention, loved being famous, all things he’d wanted for so long that, at first, he didn’t really care why he was finally getting them. but it didn’t take long for johnny to realise without the powers, he’d still be nothing. especially given that it’s always been obvious he’s the weakest of the four, the liability, the one that causes the team as much trouble as he actually helps. they’re all so much smarter than him, so much stronger, more selfless, worth more, and johnny knows it. that’s part of the reason why he always likes being in the center or a crowd, is always hungry for more fame and attention. it’s the validation he craves.

- despite his reputation as a player, in reality, johnny’s far from it. he’s definitely not career minded and the only real consistent ambition he’s had in life is to be in love, be in a relationship, get married, have a family. it’s just... never worked out like that in reality. but he’s almost always strictly in committed monogamous relationships, with a tendency to fall hard & fast and get hit hard by a breakup. when he’s brokenhearted tends to be the only time he goes for hookups, since it makes johnny feel better about himself again to be wanted, even if it’s only physical. his reputation in the media is something he plays into, however, and he has a tendency to flirt and to make up stories about far more experience than he’s actually had.

QUESTIONNAIRE

HOW DOES YOUR CHARACTER FEEL ABOUT EMPEROR DOOM?

look, it’s complicated. the fantastic four have known victor von doom a long time - they’ve been fierce enemies, uneasy allies, and weird pseudo-family. there was that one time they deposed victor from the throne of latveria and also that one time they helped him get it back, mostly just because he asked. and like, fair’s fair. he did eliminate hunger. it’s complicated. but johnny also wouldn’t trust him further than he could throw him. he knows victor hasn’t supposedly saved them all out of the goodness of his heart, and it burns knowing that they’re living in doom’s world now, that he won. the tight watch he keeps over the baxter building is infuriating, suffocating, humiliating. and there’s always been only so long johnny can control himself before he explodes.

HOW DOES YOUR CHARACTER FEEL ABOUT THE BATTLES? ARE THEY TRYING TO AVOID THEM? OR ARE THEY EAGER TO JUMP IN?

johnny is pretty sickened by the whole concept. he’s a hot-head who tends to rush into a fight, but he’s never really liked the actual action of fighting and has worked hard for a long time to gain the control over his powers that he has today. their destructive nature has always bothered him, and he’s mastered using an offensive power for defensive purposes above all. the last thing he’d ever want to do is partake in unnecessary fighting and risk burning someone, always his greatest fear. while johnny is often careless and thoughtless about almost everything else, his powers are the one thing he is always, always in control of, and one large reason for his playing along with doom’s rules is that he fears being forced into the battles as a punishment.

WHY HAS YOUR CHARACTER ACCEPTED THEIR JOB POSITION? WILL THEY USE IT TO GET CLOSER TO DOOM? OR WILL THEY USE IT EXPLOIT HIM? OR DO THEY SIMPLY LIKE THEIR JOB?

johnny is back in college again. does he like it? definitely not. is he determined to finally stick with it this time, attempt number he’s-lost-track? yes. but it’s not easy. he’s never been much for school, and has dropped out of college in the past in favor of different things - cosmic adventures, saving the day, going all in on a relationship or just because he couldn’t hack it. it’s something of an insecurity - he knows he’s seen as the dumb one of the group, he knows he actually is the dumb one and being at college really doesn’t help, because everyone seems to be doing so much better than he is. but he definitely needs the distraction or else he’s likely to do something stupid, like go after doom alone, and get himself sent to the deadlands. he has zero plans against doom at the moment - but johnny never really has any plans. he’s all emotion, all impulse, and at any moment he could decide to do something drastic. that’s just how he is.

#latverion:intro #file; johnny storm.

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doctorofmagic · 3 years ago

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First of all your blog is like a Bible. I read pretty much every issues on your masterlists and now I can't get Stephen out of my brain. Hands down my favourite character of all time. But now I wanna read something else and I am very curious about doctor Doom. I know your blog is stephen-centric but do you have something to recommend me if I want to deepen my knowledge about him?👀

Oh, anon! Thank you so much for your kindness and sweet words! I'm glad you concluded this incredible journey, I hope it was a good one.

Now, I also concluded Doom's chronology but I gotta admit my memory skills only work for Stephen. I'll try my best to recall my favorite stories for Victor tho! He's my second favorite character and he's SO deep and interesting on so many levels when well written.

I'm assuming you've read Triumph and Torment and Secret Wars, so I'll focus on other stories. This is not a top 10, btw, just a basic list.

1 - Books of Doom

If you've already read T&T, I'm sure you're familiar with Victor's past before becoming King of Latveria. But Books of Doom goes deeper into his past, from his relationship with Cynthia and Werner to Valeria and Reed. It's definitely a must read and an awesome start. It was my first contact with 616!Doom, along with T&T and Unthinkable. I accidentally was fated to read incredible stories when I first got into comic books ehehehe.

2 - Avengers - Emperor Doom

This one is definitely a favorite. Here we see how Doom could choose to be a good man if he wanted to, making the world a better place in exchange of love, but that only makes him bored. Because he's not inherently good. He's selfish and petty on many levels so he gives up on everything so he can live a thrilled life. Not to mention that this is the inspiration for the God Emperor Doom from Secret Wars.

3 - Fantastic Four #247

My favorite Doom stories are not those in which he is portrayed as a shallow one-dimensional villain. And this is why I love this issue. It's Kristoff's first appearance and it shows how much Victor cares for his people. Some writers go for a cold ruler who can't be bothered and see his people as tools, which, in my opinion, is incorrect. Victor has an incredible background as part of an oppressed group. It's only natural that he won't stand for injustice. A must read!

4 - Fantastic Four #570-611 (+ FF #1-23)

Of course, if I'm talking about Fantastic Four and Doom, it's my duty to mention Hickman's run. I don't think that, till this very day, someone will ever surpass the levels of understanding Hickman holds when it comes to Doctor Doom. Also the depth in Reed and Victor's relationship is... pardon the pun, fantastic. And I also love Valeria and the Future Fundation as a whole. I know it's a little too much but I promise you, you won't even feel the time pass.

5 - Fantastic Four v3 #54

I'm SO soft for villains and their children. In this case, of course Victor would have a fundamental role during Valeria's birth. He was the one who saved both Sue and Val while Reed couldn't be there for them, which only makes their bond stronger. And it's so interesting because, again, Doom wants to be part of their lives. He wants to be recognized and antagonized because it's the sparkle in his life. And of course he will make Reed's life miserable in the sense that he's constantly reminding him that Doom won't let his family be. He wants to be noticed, he craves Reed's attention. So what is more outrageous than being the godfather of your nemesis' daughter? The pettiness this man holds is *chef's kiss*

Summing up, those are definitely my favorite stories. I could also recommend the recent Ewing's Guardians of the Galaxy run (#13-18) for funny and cunning moments, Fantastic Four v1 #57 for super funny and dramatic classic Victor von Doom, War of the Realms: War Scrolls #3 for one of my favorite quotes ("he's victory"), and so on.

And yes, I'm not recommending the super fundamental issues featuring Stephen and Victor because, again, I'm assuming you've read them. But of course, OF COURSE those will always be my favorite stories. It's only natural, giving these two are my bread and butter.

Thank you for your trust, I hope you like these stories. Victor is definitely a super interesting character in the right hands and these stories are definitely a love letter to his characterization.

Thank you for passing by!

#how can the sorcerer supreme be of assistance?#ask #victor von doom #doctor doom #reading rec #marvel comics

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baconpncakes · 3 years ago

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wow that character you're obsessed with sounds so cool can you explain them to me. im sure you get them more than anyone else

Omg I would be honored to explain Victor von Doom to you ❤️

First of all- his obsession with Reed Richards is fun and sexy and valid. Here's a man who spent his whole life haunted by death, his childhood best friend, his mother, his people, his father- and he survives. He gets the chance to study in America and he has every intention of building the portal to save his mom and keeping his head down. Then suddenly he meets this guy who sees himself as Victor's equal, and what's worse is that he actually is, and worse than that he wants to be friends. Victor doesn't do friends, friends just die and leave you alone. He doesn't need peers either, they just get in the way. This guy has made a complete nuisance of himself- trying to be friendly despite Ben's disapproval and Victor's own rudeness. Okay, Victor can recognize a rival. So we can play chess together and we can compete for the top of the class but we can never be friends.

Now Victor is so close to completing his plan. He almost has his mother back. And who butts in but Reed Richards: the guy who tried to bond over also having a dead mom, about growing up without a dad. As if he could understand what it's like. Sure, he had a rough relationship with his parents, but he was a white boy raised in a beautiful multi-story house in America by a nanny. Victor was a Romani boy raised in the woods in Latveria by a friend of his parents. Reed sees Victor's blueprints and actually has the gall to comment on them. A man with no understanding of magic. With no understanding of what Victor has been through. He presents it as concern but to Victor it's threatening. If Richards discovered his plans who knows who else might find out, who he might tell. They'll pull his funding, they'll take away the portal and he needs to do this right now. And he does. And it explodes. And Victor is scarred and shipped back to Latveria. And it's all Richards' fault.

So he overthrows the man who manipulated his mother. If he can't save her, at least he can save his people.

He spends years rebuilding his homeland, hiding his face and never truly abandoning his mission to find his mother. Then who starts making headlines but Reed Richards. Victor is the emperor of a whole country (and a damn good one too) and somehow Reed Richards has found a way to invade his life, to place himself at the same level. Again.

Reed Richards manages to become one of the few constants in Victor's life.

Victor and Reed are both so incapable of giving each other up. A lot of the time, Doctor Doom is doing something that the Fantastic Four needs to thwart, but there are other instances, especially earlier in the comics, that Victor seeks them out and attacks them. Why? Because Reed Richards is his nemesis. Because Reed understands him better than anyone, whether he wants to admit it or not. Meanwhile on Reed’s side he won’t give up on the idea that Victor can be saved, that he can redeem himself. Reed would never let Victor die. Victor always regrets when Reed is gone. They miss each other.

Reed will always try to save Victor. And Victor will always try to best Reed.

#darrin i love you mwah #ask of cakes

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krinsbez · 4 years ago

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Infinite Four, Refurbished: A Marvel Fanfic Concept

Here is the complete-as-of-now, refurbished version of Infinite Four, my attempt at envisioning an FF version of the eXiles or Web Warriors. Comments and suggestions welcome.

On Earth-9499729, Victor Von Doom has finally defeated the accursed RICHARDS! and assumed his rightful place as ruler of the Earth. Unwilling to rest on his laurels, Emperor Doom has begun studying the Multiverse. And when he finds out that in most realities, a version of himself is repeatedly defeated by a version of RICHARDS! he reacts….poorly.

Meanwhile, on Earth-75845525, Victor Von Doom, smarting from his latest defeat at the hands of the accursed RICHARDS!, decides to distract himself by studying the Multiverse. And when he finds out that in most realities, a version of himself is repeatedly defeated by a version of RICHARDS! he reacts….poorly.

Meanwhile, on Earth-34373402, Victor Von Doom takes a break from planning his latest attempt to defeat the accursed RICHARDS! by studying the Multiverse. And when he finds out that in most realities, a version of himself is repeatedly defeated by a version of RICHARDS! he reacts….poorly. Yeah, so in an infinite multiverse, there’s an infinite number of Dooms throwing an infinite number of shitfits over the fact that in most realities, the Richards family wins and he loses. And because Doom is often kinda bad at recognizing and/or caring that his actions can have negative consequences for everyone else, this gets very, very bad, and needs to be dealt with.

Someone has to clean up the mess, and that responsibility has been taken on by the Baxter Brain, an artificial hyper-intelligence housed inside a massive arcology that began as the combined uploaded consciousnesses of a version of the FF. But, even it’s astounding intellect and power can’t cope with ALL of the various Dooms (and Wizards, and Mad Thinkers, and Diablos, and occasionally an evil Reed) screwing things up for everyone with their egomaniacal disregard for everyone else. So, it has to recruit agents, and what better agents could their be than alternate versions of it’s previous selves? There are four teams: Alpha Team and Beta Team are each made up of an alternate Ben, Johnny, Reed and Sue; in the former case, they have additional power-sets from the "baseline", in the latter, they have additional skills or alternate powersets. In both cases, the individual team-members come from realities where they lost their version of the family. Gamma and Delta Teams are made up of versions of allies of the core four, and serve as support for Alpha and Beta. I only have two members of either ATM, help please? Alpha Team: -Reed Richards, Dr. Fantastic; from an Earth where, instead of Ben being the only member of the Four who was mode-locked, Reed was the only one who wasn’t; obviously, the celebrity adventurers thing didn’t wasn’t going to work. Desperate to find some way of curing his friends, Reed turned to magic, and eventually ended up becoming Sorcerer Supreme…which unfortunately led to the Dread Dormammu killing his family. -Johnny Storm, Ghost Torch; from a world where Reed’s guilt over turning his friends into freaks caused him to commit suicide. Unsurprisingly, this made things even worse for Sue, Ben, and Johnny, the latter of whom ended up being so lost that he joined a Satanic cult and found himself bound to a demonic Spirit of Vengeance… -Ben Grimm, Wolf-Thing; from an Earth where Reed’s moonshot wasn’t canceled, meaning that when it went to space it had adequate cosmic-ray shielding, and Ben managed to make it to the Moon without any problems whatsoever. Whilst on the Moon, however, he found a certain red gemstone…Fortunately, Reed figured out the wolf-monster stalking NYC was his best friend and built a gizmo to restore him to sanity, albeit by blasting him with cosmic rays that turned him into a rock monster. Unfortunately, he ended up dead in the process of using it (I can’t decided if Ben mauled him, or if some triggerhappy cop or something shot him by mistake) -Susan Storm, the Invincible Woman; a version of Sue who was forced to become a Herald of Galactus. Beta Team: -Dr. Maggie Wingfoot, the Human Torch; a female version of Johnny (named after her Aunt Marygay), who left the team to marry Wyatt Wingfoot and go to college, eventually earning a PhD in Mechanical Engineering. Unfortunately, at some point, something went wrong and the Baxter Building was destroyed, killing the rest of the family. Convinced that, if she’d been there she could’ve prevented it, Maggie’s marriage subsequently fell apart. -Susan McKenzie, Sub-Mariness; from a world where Reed died, leading Sue to take up with Namor; she was subsequently given an infusion of Atlantean DNA to enable to her to live underwater, and ended up with same mutations as him and Namora, but lost her cosmic-ray induced powers. -Ben Grimm, Juggernaut; during his service in the Korean War, got shot down and ended up falling in with a bunch of of Army grunts, including a pair of bickering step-brothers named Charles Xavier and Cain Marko. When they stumble onto a hidden temple, it is Ben who finds the crimson Crystal of Cytorrak and is transformed by it’s power into the Juggernaut… -Reed Richards, Director of SHIELD; from a world where the FF got caught trying to steal the shuttle. Fortunately for everyone, Nick Fury stepped in and offered his old OSS buddy a deal he couldn’t refuse; if Reed came to work for him at SHIELD, he’d make the charges against the other three go away. Not wishing to ruin his friend’s lives, Reed agreed, and became one of SHIELD’s top operatives, ultimately taking over the organization when Fury eventually went down. Gamma Team: -Victoria Von Doom-Grimm, Dr. Grim; female version of Doom, fell in love with Ben when they were in college, and subsequently married him. Unfortunately, having her genitalia on the inside didn’t make her less of a narcissistic megalomaniac, and their marriage was…rocky, with them constantly separating and getting back together. During one such separation, the fateful trip to space happened. Victoria was…displeased that her handsome husband had been turned into a monster, and was so determined to fix it, that she did not adequately test the cure she concocted. On the plus side, inadvertently making herself a widow forced her to take a good hard look at herself and try to change her ways. -Namor McKenzie-Richards-Storm, Sub-Mariner. From a world where Reed and Namor were both bisexual, resulting in Reed, Namor, and Sue all getting together. Unfortunately, this led to Reed and Sue being assassinated by one of Namor's political rivals. Also, presenting two teams of recurring sometimes enemies/sometimes allies: The Brides of Doom (women who had been married to their local version of Doom, who have dedicated themselves to cleaning up his mess): -Susan Von Doom (duh) -Ororo Von Doom (again, duh) -Victoria Von Doom (female clone of Victor. Honestly, given how egomaniacal Victor is, it’s astounding this isn’t a thing in canon) -Natasha von Doom, it’s happened in a couple weird alternates, so might as well. (thanks to Xero Key for this suggestion) A Natasha who made some different choices after the USSR fell apart, and ended up working for Doom instead of the new Russian government. -Jennifer von Doom, because a Hulk is required here. (ditto) Haven’t quite worked out how this one happened. Suggestions? -Shuri Von Doom, owing to a political marriage in order to obtain Doom’s aid in fixing the mess that resulted when one of the many attempts to oust T’Challa that failed in 616 worked. Was not happy about it, but accepted it for the greater good of Wakanda. -Anelle von Doom, likewise owing to a political marriage, albeit rather different. Anelle was even less happy about this, but her father was on an enemy-of-my-enemy kick and thought he could handle Doom after the FF were eliminated. Suffice to say, this didn’t work out so well for him. On the plus side, Emperor Victor I is actually doing a good job running the Skrull Empire, which as a bonus is a lot more work than running Latveria, reducing the amount of free time Doom has to scheme. -Emma Von Doom, from a world where the Hellfire Club thought they could get away with manipulating Doom. Unsurprisingly, they were wrong. Emma still ended up making a Heel-Face Turn eventually, though. -Loki Von Doom, from a world where the whole Cabal thing went very, VERY differently. The Token Evil teammate. The Stormborn, a collection of sons and daughters of Johnny Storm, from timelines where everyone’s favorite matchstick was killed by Doom. Said folks have therefore dedicated themselves to avenging their parent by hunting down and killing every single Doom in the Multiverse. -Namor Storm, the Human Geyser; leader of the team, son of Johnny and Namorita, named for his uncle. Has the standard human/Atlantean hybrid powerset, plus steam powers. -Agatha Evans-Storm, the Fantastic Witch; Johnny’s daughter with his OG girlfriend Dorrie Evans. Despite having a kid together, the issues that caused them to break up in 616 remained, and they separated, retaining joint custody of their daughter (who was named after her cousin Franklin’s nanny, who had recently died). Unlike her cousins she appeared to be totally normal. When she turned 13, however, she was kidnapped by Dr. Doom, who was on a magic kick and had discovered that being named after the old witch created a slight but distinct mystic connection that he could exploit as part of a plan to become the God of Witchcraft by ritually sacrificing her. She was saved, but at the cost of her father’s life. Also, she became a witch, and was subsequently apprenticed to Wanda. -Luna Storm, She-Serpent; from a world where Johnny left the FF to be with Crystal. Like her cousin Franklin, Luna is a mutant, with the power to control the weather, though it took people a bit to figure this out what with living on the Moon and all. Obviously, the subsequent history of the Inhumans was rather different, but a Terrigen Bomb was eventually released, and to everyone’s relief Luna managed to survive. She did turn into a winged snakewoman who breathes poisonous gas though, which kinda sucks. -Wyatt Storm, Speed-Hulk; Johnny and She-Hulk’s kid, named after Johnny’s BFF and Jen’s ex, Wyatt Wingfoot. As the name suggests, is a Hulk, and also a speedster. -JJ and Jeannie Storm, the Mutant Torch and Firebird; Johnny’s twin son and daughter with Rachel Summers (or Rachel Grey, whichever you prefer). They’re both Omega-class mutants like their mom; JJ is a teep, Jeannie is a teek, and they’re both pyrokinetic. Also, they can do that thing Aurora and Northstar or Fenris do, where they can become even more powerful by holding hands. -Jimmy Storm, the Human Robot; from a world where Roberta the Robot Receptionist was upgraded to sentience, and she and Johnny fell in love and got married. The one flaw in their marriage was the obvious inability to have children, and so for their second anniversary, Reed presented them with a child-form robot (named after the OG Human Torch) with an AI that was initially simple but designed to learn and grow in the way child would, albeit somewhat faster. The plan was to periodically upgrade him to simulate physical aging, but when he was two years old (though emotionally, intellectually, and in physical appearance being more like ten), Doom decided to launch a frontal assault on the Baxter Building, which involved destroying Roberta. Driven berserk by rage and grief, Johnny subsequently killed Doom, but was himself killed when Victor’s armor self-destructed, leaving Jimmy orphaned. That was ten years ago, and he has refused to change his appearance since. Like his mother, despite his harmless appearance, Jimmy is super-strong and tough, and possess a small arsenal of built-in weapons. -Ramonda Storm, the White Wolf; Johnny’s daughter with Shuri. Has no inherent powers (unless you count being able to consume the heart-shaped herb safely), but is a tactical/strategic genius on par with her Uncle T'Challa. When said uncle was injured and her Aunt Ororo killed by a Sentinel attack, she donned the long-abandoned ceremonial garb/vibranium-laced hi-tech suit of the White Wolf to assist her cousin Azari in tracking down and bringing to justice those responsible. You can imagine how she reacted when her own father was killed by Doom.

#Infinite Four #Fantastic Four #Marvel Comics #Fanfic #Marvel Fanfic

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gods-own-xman · 4 years ago

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Thanks to @sebastianshaw, I now have a bunch of headcanons for the Munroe-Von Doom marriage and family based off of the Chaos Engine Triology (which I still must read). @victor-of-latveria feel free to add or correct any!

Qadria was planned. That said, Shaw would hide his disgust when World Emperor Doom would have the throne room cleared when Ororo would enter. He knew what they were up to...

Victor was very attentive during Ororo’s pregnancy. Despite having the world’s finest care, changing hormones and weather manipulation is still something to worry about.

Doom had declared the day of her planned birth to be a holiday, except Ororo had a long labor and Qadria was born the next day, making it a two day holiday. (Ororo and Victor joke that much like her parents, Qadria made a dramatically late entrance.)

#v: chaos engine triology #sebastianshaw #victor-of-latveria #pregnancy tw #baby tw

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f4liveblogarchives · 5 years ago

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Fantastic Four Vol 1 #198 & #199

Mon Aug 26 2019 [12:46 AM] Wack'd: It probably bares pointing out that this story is being billed as "The Greatest F.F. Epic of All!". I disagree [12:46 AM] maxwellelvis: I thought that kind of hyperbole on the covers died out with the Silver Age [12:46 AM] Bocaj: I wonder what the greatest FF epic of all is [12:47 AM] Wack'd: Thus far I'm not sure anything's topped the Lee/Kirby epic of the Four being trapped in Latveria, if only for its sheer manic energy as it ping-pongs wildly from one twist to the next, only to end on a shaggy dog note when Doom gets bored and lets them leave [12:47 AM] maxwellelvis: Some people would argue it's the original Galactus Trilogy. [12:48 AM] Wack'd: I mean. If you define "epic" as "more than two issues". Otherwise it's probably the Thomas/Conway/Buscema one where a janitor gets a sentient cosmic cube to turn the world into a bonkers 50s mashup [12:48 AM] Wack'd: Isn't Galactus just 49-50? Otherwise I guess you could include that [12:48 AM] maxwellelvis: Man, that story got kinda last-episode-of-The Prisoner-y in the middle when they're both captured. [12:49 AM] maxwellelvis: People count the Silver Surfer stuff in #48 as part of it. [12:49 AM] Wack'd: That's probably fair [12:49 AM] Wack'd: Anyway! Reed has the Pogo Plane and is going to get Doctor Doom [12:50 AM] Wack'd: Weirdly, he figured this out because only Doom could've designed all the neat stuff he saw at his new job, funded the rocket that got him his powers back, and captured his friends so easily [12:50 AM] Wack'd: And not because his boss is the spitting image of his old college roommate [12:51 AM] Wack'd: Seriously there's one bit where it looks like Reed might recognize Son of Doom and instead it's like "that face? where have I seen that face?" [12:51 AM] maxwellelvis: How could he know what Victor Von Doom looks like? WE barely see his face even in flashback. [12:51 AM] maxwellelvis: I just assume he always has a shadow around that he lurks in. [12:51 AM] Wack'd: Pffft [12:52 AM] maxwellelvis: Like, from what I remember from his origin story, we see his face when we see him as a boy, but as he grows to college-age, his back is turned to us or his face is obscured more. [12:52 AM] Wack'd: The Four have left Latveria alive. Numerous times. But okay.

[12:53 AM] maxwellelvis: When did Doom start hiring goons? I thought his only human employee was Boris. [12:53 AM] Wack'd: We've seen him have human goons numerous times! [12:53 AM] maxwellelvis: Oh [12:53 AM] Wack'd: Just last issue a human goon he had in the 60s came back! I made a joke about what a ridiculous continuity pull it was and everything! [12:54 AM] maxwellelvis: Right [12:54 AM] Wack'd: Okay this feels like a little much but I'm sure everyone will forget he could do this soon enough

[12:54 AM] maxwellelvis: It's just weird because I'm used to him having an army of robotic henchmen, aside from the Doombots even. [12:54 AM] Wack'd: He does run a country. It'd be weird if there were no federal jobs [12:55 AM] maxwellelvis: These guys, to be specific. His Servo-Guards. [12:55 AM] Wack'd: I never said he didn't have robots

[12:56 AM] Wack'd: Man, those are some Tony Stark lookin' goons [12:56 AM] maxwellelvis: Wow, they look way less efficient than the Servo-Guards. [12:57 AM] Wack'd: Anyway Reed tries to rewire one of the robots and as a safeguard it explodes, knocking him unconscious and into a nearby lake [12:57 AM] Wack'd: Yeah, Reed's gonna die less than halfway through the issue, I buy this

[12:58 AM] Wack'd: "Face down in the water." Keith Pollard wins yet another art award [12:59 AM] maxwellelvis: Don't they write the scripts after the art is drawn? [12:59 AM] maxwellelvis: This could be on Marv's head. [01:00 AM] Wack'd: To the extent that this wasn't a myth perpetuated to justify Stan's writing credit, it was dying out by the 80s as comics became more of an auteur medium [01:00 AM] maxwellelvis: Ahh [01:00 AM] Wack'd: So possible, but unlikely [01:00 AM] Wack'd: Last time Doom was thwarted when someone pointed out he probably didn't want to destroy all the historical artifacts in the building so he's learned literally nothing. Very in character for him

[01:01 AM] maxwellelvis: This is the same guy who burned an original Renoir because he didn't like looking at it. [01:02 AM] Wack'd: Also apparently the statue Alicia's sculpting is "a gift to the UN when they vote not to condemn Latveria for its...more aggressive policies" [01:02 AM] Wack'd: Presumably also why Doom's "stepping down"--makes him look good in the run-up to the vote [01:03 AM] Wack'd: Little does he know the UN has no power and any condemnation they issue is basically just to make themselves look good! A rare day one manages to get one over on Doom [01:04 AM] Wack'd: Doom's also convinced the spaceship explosion killed Reed. For some reason. Even Sue has to point out that's a really dumb assumption [01:05 AM] Wack'd: Love me a good "Ben doesn't know when to quit" moment

[01:08 AM] Wack'd: Love a resistance. Don't love that they're big into hereditary monarchy

[01:08 AM] maxwellelvis: Especially because the guy Doom overthrew was a genocidal monster. [01:09 AM] maxwellelvis: Or maybe Doom just does that thing were every Latverian nobleman he undermined and disposed of, in his mind, he always saw the face of the man who killed his father. [01:09 AM] maxwellelvis: Y'know, like Batman. [01:10 AM] Wack'd: Possibly. Marvel Wiki says Rudolpho appeared in person occasionally through the 70s but doesn't mention anything about him being the guy who killed Doom Daddy [01:10 AM] maxwellelvis: I didn't mean to imply that. [01:11 AM] maxwellelvis: But Doom IS the kind of guy who would probably hold him just as accountable as that man was. [01:11 AM] Wack'd: Fair [01:12 AM] Wack'd: So we get to see a bit of the statue carving and the back of Doom's head looks like he's melting and Ben says he "has a puss that makes mine look like Robbie Redford's" [01:12 AM] Bocaj: I wonder if Doom will ever do a T'Challa and make Latveria a democracy so he doesn't have to put in the hours anymore [01:12 AM] maxwellelvis: Never [01:12 AM] Wack'd: Is basically every interesting or sympathetic aspect of this guy besides his origin a massive retcon [01:12 AM] Bocaj: Historically, Doom has walked away from ruling the world at least once because he found it tedious [01:12 AM] maxwellelvis: He loves being in charge [01:12 AM] Wack'd: I'm starting to feel like it id [01:13 AM] maxwellelvis: That sounds more like he didn't realize how much work the entire world would be compared to Latveria. [01:13 AM] Wack'd: So Son of Doom shows up and is like "it's time for the transference" [01:13 AM] Wack'd: I feel like we can all see where this is going [01:13 AM] Bocaj: Whats funny is that I think Doom keeps trying to conquer the world after the Emperor Doom story [01:14 AM] Bocaj: I guess wanting is better than having [01:14 AM] maxwellelvis: He's transferring his mind into his son's body, isn't he? [01:14 AM] Bocaj: He also definitely had some airs of ennui during God Emperor Doom in Secret Wars [01:14 AM] Wack'd: I also guessed this but apparently not [01:14 AM] Wack'd:

[01:15 AM] Wack'd: He's gonna give Son of Doom all the Four's powers [01:15 AM] maxwellelvis: Ah [01:15 AM] Wack'd: Minus one [01:16 AM] Wack'd: hahahahaha

[01:16 AM] Wack'd: This is basically a Superdictionary entry [01:16 AM] Bocaj: HAY THAT MACHINE [01:16 AM] Bocaj: THAT’S THE SAME MACHINE HE USED AS A SKRULL DETECTOR IN AVENGERS EARTH'S MIGHTIEST HEROES [01:17 AM] Bocaj: "It does more than one thing. SHUT UP!" [01:17 AM] Wack'd: Huh! [01:17 AM] Wack'd: Deep cut! [01:18 AM] Wack'd: Love me some casual mook dialogue

[01:18 AM] Wack'd: God so much of this issue is just letting Reed show off [01:19 AM] Wack'd: "How will we climb this mountain?" "I'm a rope now!" "How will we hide from this drone?" "I'll make myself look like part of the mountainside!" "How will we cross this moat?" "I'm a bridge now!" [01:20 AM] Bocaj: So him giving Reed his powers back is thus implied to be not about Doom's self-serving definition of a fair fight but to fill that fourth bubble? [01:20 AM] Wack'd: Probably yeah [01:21 AM] Wack'd: Marv Wolfman: Should I pace this slower so that everyone that's been complaining about Reed not stretching has time to nut? [01:22 AM] Bocaj: pfft [01:22 AM] Wack'd: I fucking love these two

[01:24 AM] Wack'd: I would watch a sitcom about these people [01:25 AM] Wack'd: ...weren't you trying to put a king back on the throne?!?

[01:25 AM] Bocaj: Maybe they don't know what democracy means [01:26 AM] Wack'd: Latveria doesn't seem to have a robust education system [01:27 AM] Bocaj: But they do have a robot education system [01:27 AM] Bocaj: Every latverian schoolchild is taught how to make a Doombot [01:27 AM] Wack'd: So all of the rebels but the main one get trapped between sliding doors and gassed, thus massively simplifying the plot [01:28 AM] Wack'd: Zorba is distressed his men might be dead but Reed reassures him they can still win, which I'm sure was his main concern [01:29 AM] Wack'd: So it turns out Hauptmann is the brother of the original Hauptmann, who died in that Latveria epic [01:29 AM] Wack'd: I forgot [01:29 AM] Wack'd: He's totally on board with overthrowing Doom since his brother...was killed by Doom? Died on Doom's watch if nothing else. [01:30 AM] Wack'd: FINAL SHOWDOWN TIME [01:31 AM] Wack'd: I like that Doom assumes this was a clever ruse on Reed's part and that he did not, in fact, almost die

[01:31 AM] Wack'd: Anyway not final showdown time I guess! Cliffhanger time!

[01:32 AM] Wack'd: Boy the "soul-shattering secret" thing kinda makes me wish I hadn't looked him up

Mon Aug 26 2019 [01:32 AM] Wack'd: FANTASTIC FOUR VOL 1 NO 199: [01:34 AM] Wack'd: I like that Doom plays the piano. That it's just a thing he does and incorporates into his plans just because he likes it. It's a nice little thing

[01:34 AM] maxwellelvis: That's an organ setup [01:34 AM] maxwellelvis: Just as cliche and ten times as bombastic [01:34 AM] maxwellelvis: Which suits Victor [01:36 AM] Wack'd: Anyway Zorbo is...back outside, now? And he's leading a mob? [01:37 AM] Wack'd: Doom tries to fire on them with his suit weapons but the entire mob pulls out guns and draw on him [01:37 AM] Bocaj: Normal guns? A trifle for one such as VICTOR VON DOOOOOM [01:38 AM] Wack'd: You'd think [01:38 AM] Wack'd: But he backs down and redoubles on his promise to retire [01:38 AM] Wack'd: The mob has formed, essentially, because they don't believe him [01:39 AM] Bocaj: Do they know his plan to put his son on the throne? [01:39 AM] Wack'd: Yes [01:39 AM] Wack'd: Zorbo is threatening to expose the "dark secret" behind Son of Doom [01:39 AM] Bocaj: So they're fine with that but they just don't believe Doom is really retiring? [01:40 AM] Wack'd: Well, they don't know what it is yet [01:40 AM] Wack'd: Zorbo is keeping us them in suspense [01:41 AM] Wack'd: stupid 👏🏼 baby 👏🏼 word 👏🏼 games

[01:43 AM] Wack'd: So apparently UN is threatening to expel Latveria [01:43 AM] Wack'd: This is a weird set of circumstances to slowly unfold over the course of the story but I'm digging it [01:44 AM] Wack'd: Meanwhile: Reed punches out of his sphere and frees the others while Doom is distracted with statue stuff [01:45 AM] Bocaj: Ego is his downfall as happens [01:46 AM] Wack'd: I hadn't thought about it until now but it's very interesting to me that this arc ends not with Reed learning to value his other virtues in lieu of his powers (before of course getting them back) but with him completely forgetting his midlife crisis and reforming the team

[01:47 AM] Wack'd: Like in modern comics there'd be some kind of character beat before the big return but nah, Reed can stretch again! All problems are solved forever! [01:49 AM] Wack'd: Anyway they fight some mooks, dodge some lasers, the usual, before reaching Doom. And Alicia, who is being threatened with a dislocated finger

[01:50 AM] Wack'd: So naturally the Four surrender [01:50 AM] Wack'd: Doom's speech here has big Mother Gothel energy

[01:51 AM] Wack'd: Zorbo frees the Four and Alicia. Quick turnaround time, but then the arc is ending [01:52 AM] Wack'd: The Four show up, reveal Son of Doom as a clone, fight fight fight [01:53 AM] Wack'd: ...huh. Did not see this coming

[01:54 AM] Wack'd: So anyway Son of Doom declares he has no interest in his dad's petty cruelty and thirst for revenge, and the two duke it out [01:55 AM] Wack'd: It's...pretty cool

[01:56 AM] Wack'd:

[01:56 AM] maxwellelvis: I don't think I've ever seen Doom have a breakdown like this before. [01:56 AM] Bocaj: "Learn some self-care, Doom!" "NEVER" [01:57 AM] Wack'd: As with the thing with Agatha and Nick Scratch I kinda wish the hammer had dropped sooner so we had more room to explore this dynamic [01:58 AM] Wack'd: But we definitely get some good mileage out of it in the final moments

#1978 #Marv Wolfman #Keith Pollard #The Main Book

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welcome-to-latveria · 5 years ago

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Different anon but technically to be Pope you just have to be male & baptized Catholic. Many Romani adopted Christianity & Latveria likely has a lot of Catholic history considering its location. So what I'm saying is Victor von Doom is absolutely eligible to be Pope and I, for one, can't wait to see an army of Doombots in fabulous hats

God Emperor Doom but he wears the Pope's outfit ejahdjdkdlf

#victor couldn't be a catholic cos he'd be like *commits blasphemy in every sentence by comparing himself to God*#ask #victor von doom

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siscosfavoritecomics · 6 years ago

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I have a bonus graphic novel from 1987 to post about. I present Marvel Graphic Novel number 27: Emperor Doom by David Micheline and Bob Hall. Here is how Goodreads describes the story:

“To combat those threats which no single hero can stand against, Earth's mightiest heroes have forged together, from across America, to unite in battle for the protection of all mankind!

For years the Avengers have fought to keep the world free - but now Victor Von Doom, despotic monarch of Latveria is about to change all that. If the Avengers cannot stop him, his flawless, most desperate plan yet will put the entire world under his armored thumb.

And the Avengers will be the first to fall.”

As usual Victor Von Doom wants to take over the world and this time he’s found the way to do so. With the “help” of Zebediah Killgrave aka The Purple Man for Doom’s wonder weapon and with the assistance of Prince Namor, Doctor Doom is elected by the United Nations as Emperor Doom. Doom brings peace to the world, ends worldwide famine and for the machinations of a supervillain, he actually makes the world a better place. But in taking over as the ruler of the world, Doom starts to realize that its not all it is cracked up to be. He gets bored. Luckily for him, though the Avengers are believed to be neutralized by Doom and Namor, there is one lone Avenger left: Simon Williams aka Wonder Man.

This is an Avengers based story during the time of the Avengers and West Coast Avengers (WCA). Wonder Man, who is a member of the WCA, is in stasis when everything breaks out and upon coming to, he realizes something is wrong. He’s able to break Doom’s control over Captain America. They later free the Wasp, Iron Man (Tony Stark) and Hawkeye and off they go to fight Emperor Doom. They succeed but the reason why Doom is defeated isn’t in the way you would think. I’ll leave it to you to give it a read to find out how.

Here is what I find interesting about the story. First, Doom obviously is a victim of the old adage: Be careful about what you ask for, you just might get it. The minutiae of being the ruler of the world gets to him. There’s no challenge being surrounded by sycophants all the time.

Secondly, the Tony Stark we see in this story from 1987 is nowhere near the Tony Stark we know today. This story follows Stark’s fall in the epic “Demon in the Bottle” story line where due to his alcoholism, Tony hits rock bottom losing his fortune, his company and almost his life. Wonder Man questions whether Stark has the will to continue to resist Doom’s weapon. Captain America believes he can though throughout the story, Stark in armor fights the effects. He’s definitely not the swaggering Tony Stark in later years and the movies.

Thirdly, the Avengers face a moral dilemma. The world seems to be a much better place with Emperor Doom in place. On their way to confront Doom they debate whether taking Doom out is the right thing to do since things have improved for billions around the world. They decide that people need to decide for themselves how to live life than have a tyrant do it for them. After Doom’s defeat, things go back to how they were. Its an interesting tangent to the story line that you can see redone in Alex Ross’, Jim Krueger’s ad Alex Braithwaite’s Justice for DC Comics in the 2000s.

In that story line, the Legion of Doom seem to change their ways and help to eradicate hunger, inequity bring peace to the world. In the end it was a plot to undermine the Justice League as part of Brainiac’s master plan. Whether or not Doom had a similar plan in place in the Emperor Doom graphic novel is unknown or not referred to. But it is interesting to see the heroes debating the moral implication of deposing Doom in relation to the general population.

Though its an old issue, I recommend that you give it a read.

***On a side note on the early Marvel Graphic Novels, for those who don’t know, Marvel used to number their graphic novels when they first started printing them in the 1982. The idea for graphic novels was influenced by the European comic albums. The majority of the graphic novels had original stories (not reprints or collected editions of single issues or story arcs) starting with the Death of Captain Marvel.

#Emperor Doom #Doctor Doom #Marvel Graphic Novel #The Avengers #West Coast Avengers #Purple Man #Prince Namor #Wonder Man #Iron Man #Captain America #Wasp #Hawkeye #Graphic Novel #Graphic Novels #Marvel #Marvel Comics #Comic #Comics #SIscosFavoriteComics

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