#elmyra literally called her a 'handful' and cloud agrees

[sevi007]

Almost 10 hours of game time and reaching chapter 8 I FINALLY found my (other) girl!

(I mean as a real party member this time)

(And GOD she and her church - and her home, and her flowers - are so freaking gorgeous!)

(Oh and I kicked Reno’s ass. Highlight of my day LOL)

[silver-wield]

(1/3) Agreeing with the 🌼 anon. That blogger didn’t use “woman empowerment” but she did use “female assertiveness”, and she’s actually an abuse victim herself. Only problem is that she seems to invalidate people who’ve had different abusive/uncomfortable and toxic experiences with behaviors like Aerith’s. I think she raises some good points about the use of the word “abusive” in fandom spaces, but her assumption that the people speaking out haven’t suffered abuse is what makes me critical.

(2/3) She’s recently talked about how Tifa forced Cloud to do things as well. I’m of the opinion that the two situations are largely different for a variety of reasons. Cloud never outright tells Tifa “no” and has it ignored. His grumping is often just a front. With Aerith, on the other hand, he’s consistently uncomfortable. Forced to take little to no pay for his work, faced with people who don’t take no for an answer, and is prevented from leaving by Aerith intercepting him.

(3/3) I said “prevented from leaving” when I should have said she exhibited some truly stalkerish behavior and jumped out at him in the darkness from an alley as he was trying to go. It’s not exactly shining behavior on her part. Especially when she then delays his leaving even more. I think it’s strange to grasp for a lot of people because Cloud doesn’t put up more of a fight, but I also think some manipulation tactics were put into play.

(4/5) Anon who agrees with 🌼 again. The issue has been bothering me a bit because she does raise a good point: why doesn’t Cloud ask anybody else for help? I was wondering if you could answer that question (no pressure, of course). What bothers me the most is that this blogger keeps assuming people are mentioning this as a way to justify hating a character. She implies that the people speaking up haven’t experienced abuse and that they only know it as an abstract concept.

(5/5) That’s incredibly damaging to a lot of people. I myself liked Aerith as a character once I got to know her better, and actually ship her with Cloud (I’m a multishipper), but there’s no ignoring that Aerith acts very strange in chapter 8, at the detriment of Cloud’s consent, comfort, time, and stability. The fact that so many people have spoken up about this isn’t a coincidence. People with bad experiences are coming out and getting disregarded. That shouldn’t be happening.

Apologies for the long post 😅 I hope you don’t mind. I’m pretty impassioned about this issue, honestly. Because I do actually agree with the blogger on multiple points, but find that she seems to keep missing the issue and hurting other people in the fandom. Cloud doesn’t need to be held at gunpoint to be put into an uncomfortable (and possibly dangerous - he doesn’t know Aerith all that well) situation. She’s right about how certain words are misused, but she’s dodging the heart of the issue.

Honestly, it’s exhausting how these people take concepts they don’t understand and slap them on shit that’s the exact opposite like if they scream they’re right enough people will believe them. 

It takes as long as your browser and typing speed to look shit up.

Assertiveness is the quality of being self-assured and confident without being aggressive.

WITHOUT.

Assertiveness is not gender oriented, so what the fuck even are people blabbing about now? Female assertiveness? Gimme a break. Being assertive is a character trait. Some people are naturally assertive, while others need to learn how to stand up for themselves. Like a particular spiky haired protagonist.

Aerith’s not assertive, she’s pushy because she doesn’t respect Cloud, and respect is part of being assertive. Being able to get your point across without being a douchebag about it. Like how certain people are constantly screaming how they’re right and dragging everyone else through the mud. Those people aren’t assertive because assertiveness is a positive trait. It implies confidence in oneself and one’s ideals. There’s no need to be a dick to people because they believe in their viewpoint and see no reason to pull others down. 

Ex: I’m both assertive and can be a dick because one of my other traits is petty bench, but on the whole I’m assertive without activating that petty bench mode until people piss me off because I operate on a respect and respect alike policy. If people come to me and give me shit then they shouldn’t expect flowers in exchange. 

Back to the thing.

Aerith talks over Cloud, ignores his opinion, bullies him into doing what she wants “this is the plan, Cloud, and you’ll learn to love it” and deliberately ignores the fact he says no. That line creeps me tf out and it obviously does Cloud too because he literally steps up to her and says “what?” in an aggressive voice. Cloud has a limit and Aerith was very close to going over it. 

Cloud. said. no.

And guess what? Cloud’s not assertive. Not for himself. Not until he’s pushed beyond normal means.

He couldn’t say no to Jessie, despite not being happy about the job. He couldn’t refuse to help Aerith, despite not wanting to fight Reno -- he knows how tough Turks are, he’s not an idiot -- and then he got compensated with a date that made Reno call him a weirdo (and he never accepted it either, so Aerith’s yet another person in sector 5 who took him for a fool). So, yeah, no goddamn wonder Cloud’s reluctant to argue when Aerith could ruin his hard won reputation inside of an afternoon. He says “That wasn’t the deal” when she tries to force him to stay, but can’t keep insisting when that doesn’t work. Because Cloud is shy af. Were people not paying attention to the promise? To CC? That’s real Cloud and real Cloud makes up the core of soldier Cloud. He’s a shy, awkward boy who could barely speak to his crush. He didn’t get along with others because he’s introverted. He’s quiet and reserved. Just because he kicks all the ass doesn’t change that about him. 

Cloud isn’t a talker. Everyone knows this about him. It’s a canon fact. So, not being a talker, being reserved, quiet, introverted, unable to speak up for his own sake when he wants something that together showcases someone who isn’t good at standing up for himself. He tries. He tried so hard to refuse Aerith, but he was stuck between a rock and a hard place. He either got lost trying to get home or he put up with the pushy girl who keeps making him do shit he doesn’t want to. He sighs and pulls faces and doesn’t look happy. He wants to go home. He still said no several times to her whenever she tried to waylay him further. She didn’t care about what he wanted. That doesn’t make her assertive. It makes her the asshole because she has no respect for him.

People think that because he called Jessie desperate that it meant he wanted to stay with Aerith. That he’s capable of speaking up for himself. Nope With Jessie, he’d had a long ass day of work and longer ass night, been excluded by both Barret and the Avalanche trio, made to break into Jessie’s house (which doesn’t sit well with Cloud’s actual moral compass), then did a bunch more difficult shit fighting off Shinra and then literally jumped off the plate. Okay?! Cloud had a long ass day and it was like 4am by that point and he was tired. Anybody tries to say after that much work they’d be nice Imma call them a goddamn liar. 

Aerith refused to tell Cloud the way home, absolutely prevented him from leaving, made him do a bunch of work for shitty or no pay, belittled and insulted him, then barricaded the hallway so he couldn’t escape and stalked him to the exit when he escaped. He literally pulls a yessh face after reluctantly agreeing to let her show him how to get home. And then when they get there she withholds vital information for how he can actually get into the sector (or did people not notice him saying the giant gate was shut too?) until she gets what she wants out of him. And he sighs. Again. He has no say in anything because Aerith doesn’t listen to anyone but herself. The only reason he starts being nice to her is she tries to get info about Zack out of him and Cloud’s a nice guy who feels sorry for her. He knows he’ll never see her after this (or did people also misinterpret that reaction to Elmyra? Probably, since the only person he’d want to make a normal life with is Tifa, so being told he can’t is gonna get a reaction duh), so why be a dick to a girl who’s obviously upset about her boyfriend? Literally the second he saw Tifa -- barely even saw her because he knew that was her from the back of her head, her shoulder and hands -- he ran to her. He forgot Aerith even existed. But, sure, please do focus on the fact that he respected Tifa enough to do as she asked after an entire goddamn day of being disrespected by someone else. He’s not gonna treat Tifa the way he was just treated by Aerith. He actually cares about her.

And what did they think the message in Stand Up was? It’s not about dancing ffs. Andrea’s telling Cloud not to be afraid to be himself. That means speaking up for himself too, not about being real Cloud, which is a message he wouldn’t even understand at that point because he’s soldier Cloud and not aware of real Cloud. Andrea figured out Cloud right away. He saw a boy who’d do anything for the woman he loved, even let himself get pressured into something he’d be embarrassed by. That’s what stand up means in relation to Cloud. 

Tifa never forced Cloud to do anything. She asked him to go with her to collect filter money, then immediately backtracked when she realised she’d have to pay him for that too. Cloud agreed and smiled at her. She also let him keep all of the money they got, which in the end gave him a grand total of 2150 gil, not the 2000 he was promised, so they overpaid him to make up for the delay.

She also asked him after the first quest “what do you want to do now?” and he said “Dunno,” so she made a suggestion. There’s no force behind that. He could refuse and go take a nap or something. She spent the day getting him work and helping him with that work, so much so that he was fully prepared to split the fee with her. Unlike with Aerith. 

I could go on and on about this because I’ve gone over that chapter so many times. I don’t just replay odd chapters to get stuff, I replay the entire game, so I get to see the development of everything as it unfolds and see those connections between things that I overlooked before because I was too busy looking at something else. People think because they spend umpteen hours in sector 5 that Cloud did too. Nope. Cloud was there for around 11 hours before he left.

It was morning when he woke and since in December the sun would rise around 8am, that’s the earlier possible time that it could’ve been. In fact it could’ve been later. Cloud and Aerith spend several hours getting back to the sector so that it’s close to dinner time when they arrive. She then makes him do odd jobs for a few hours and then they eat and Cloud has a nap -- because he literally has a dream. You know, that thing people keep clinging to. He can’t dream if he’s not asleep. When he wakes up it’s dark and since it’s past dinner time, it’s around 6-7pm when he escapes and makes for the sector 6 exit. And that’s chapter 8. 

Chapter 9 takes around 4 hours for them to complete. They spend a couple of hours fighting in the coliseum, then Cloud messes around while Aerith’s getting ready, which from Madam M seems to take around an hour. That leaves the rest of the time for the honey bee inn show, getting Cloud changed, walking to Corneo’s and the bit in the dungeon. Then they get dropped in the sewers. 

Do you see how little time Cloud actually spent with Aerith? He’s known her for like 15 hours total before he reunites with Tifa. And people think he fell in love with her? Ew. Even Disney knew better than to try that.