#elia deserves better

[katshuya]

Rhaegar's wife, who had delicate health, gave him two children. One caused her to be bedridden for half a year and another that he impregnated her with during her recovery or, immediately after and almost killed her, deserved that crown.

Yes she deserved it more than Lyanna Stark who braverly defended her father's bannerman yet impulsively and naively when there was a well known mad king watching and entered as a mystery knight that grabbed everyone's curiosity for being unknown.

Elia Martell, who endured Rhaegar, his prophecy, racist people, and their opinion about how unworthy she was for him AND his racist, mad cruel father desrved respect as well as that crown.

Yet she was gifted with humiliation one after another after all that she sacrificed.

This will trigger many. But that crown was Elia's right after all the hell this strong woman had been through. Not Lyanna's. Yet, in the narrative, it is all about Lyanna and the winter rose.

Rhaegar only endangered Lyanna, and even if Aerys and Lyanna's family and betrothed weren't there, it was still Elia's right.

Honoring Lyanna could have been done more respectfully and wiser, yet it was extremely dumb and cruel.

Yet the audacity to put Elia in such a humiliating situation

She deserves more respect and attention from GRRM, which I doubt he will grant her any true respect.

Elia was killed for the sake of the narrative. So the promised one can happen. She was used and then killed in an unnecessary way for it.

What even happened to Elia's body along with her children's? Definitely weren't sent to Dorne. While we know Rhaegar's was burnt and Lyanna's in winterfell.

If George wanted us to like the Rhaegar x lyanna thing, then he failed miserably. For sane people, of course.

This will always be where he failed the writing.

We hear of Lyanna's suffering in the books, and how she was killed to bring important child for the future of the realm and its safety yet we barely hear of Elia's, who gave and suffered much, much more.

I like the Starks, but this is where George crossed the line with his favoursim.

She is barely there in the narrative, yet her story and the things she had been through and everything associated with her upbringing make her more interesting character than Rhaegar or Lyanna to me and many people.

I believe George unintentionally made her more interesting to many of us when he wanted us to care for Rhaegar and Lyanna.

Edit: I'm talking about the crown, not the winter rose itself. Since some Rx L shippers entered the asks and were acting so unruly like usual.

[spearsndragons]

The Women and Men of Hourglass (1/?)

Part 2 HERE

[alishaaxo]

Elia: “I gave Rhaegar permission to take leave and make Lyanna his wife”

💥💥THIS IS NOT MY ELIA 💥💥

WTFFFF STOPPP

all the elia fics im seeing rn r saying this…..

I THINK I NEED AN BAMF-ELIA MARTELL RESURGENCEEEE‼️‼️

[katshuya]

Oh, you mean it hurt her?!! How???!! She was Oberyn's sister! I mean, Lyanna was also Brandon's sister, but still!!

Elia Martell at The Tourney of Harrenhal

[badwriterrr]

Just two lil curious Targlings, I’m sure nothing bad will ever happen to them.

[martellspear]

.ೃ࿐ “I will hear you say it. She was Elia of Dorne.”

The Mountain snorted contemptuously, and came on . . . and in that moment, the sun broke through the low clouds that had hidden the sky since dawn.

The sun of Dorne, Tyrion told himself.

[florzzzs2]

Princess Rhaenys 🌺

She should have been the delight of the kingdom ☀️🥹

[tenthmuseondine]

𖤓 Princess Elia of Dorne and her newborn daughter, Princess Rhaenys Targaryen 𖤓

[throwawayasoiafaccount]

Why do you think the tides have slightly turned from "Elia deserves better than Rhaegar" to shipping her and Rhaegar together? Like what is the psychology behind these people because I've seen some of them like/reblog anti Rhaegar posts while also shipping Rhaegar x Elia at the same time.

hey anon! my thoughts are a bit messy, but i’ve done my best to explain them coherently :)

so, rhaegar was the best man anyone could have when elia was alive, and most people want the best for their favs. he was considered the most handsome, didn’t have a bad personality, and he was crown prince—meaning elia was almost queen, which is often seen as the greatest role a woman can have. the narrative also treats rhaegar as a beautiful, tragic, haunting figure, and elia actually had this very aesthetically pleasing man all to herself at one point! she was married to him, had children with him, and her life was so close to perfect! but rhaegar just had to go and ruin it. 😠

for many elia stans, if rhaegar hadn’t fallen in love with another woman (they want him to have been a completely different character), then everything would’ve been perfect, and elia would’ve had the best, most desirable life. however, that’s not what happened—elia met a very tragic end, and as a result, these stans feel double the bitterness. because of this bitterness, they blame rhaegar for everything (even though it’s not logical to do so), but he’s just too ‘perfect’ to let go of. so, for years these stans have made rhaegar revolve around elia, filling his tag with posts about her out of bitterness. so, i do believe that this obsession with rhaegar x elia has always been there, but i think it’s become a more favorable stance on the elia stan side of the fandom because of a mix of reasons.

plus, rhaegar is one of the few canon relationships we know elia had, since she’s not much of a character. because of this, and the fact that most people don’t like to stray too far from canon, most elia stans are forced to focus on rhaegar, which has created an echo chamber. basically, if a sentiment about elia and rhaegar’s relationship becomes popular, then the whole elia stan side of the fandom will likely regurgitate the sentiment. (also, this desire to stick close to canon is likely why the elia x arthur ship was so popular. while it’s a total crack ship, it had good aesthetics, and since elia and arthur at least knew each other, it allowed the stans to create their perfect fanfiction whilst sticking it to rhaegar. but remember, elia was actually married to rhaegar and had children with him, so while arthur is cool, rhaegar was always ‘top dog,’ meaning arthur would never be able to match up to rhaegar to most elia stans. also, the arthur x elia crack ship is likely her second most popular ship, which just shows how little elia stans have to work with, so they’re always forced to eventually return back to rhaegar for a lot of things.)

however, even if the elia x rhaegar ship gains more popularity, these stans will never stop hating rhaegar because he wasn’t ‘perfect’—and he wasn’t perfect because he didn’t love elia. plus, rhaegar loving another woman and supposedly kidnapping her is what began the war that led to elia’s tragic death. that’s bitterness times 1000. and while i don’t actually blame rhaegar for the war, i do think that this is how an elia stan sees it. i also don’t view rhaegar’s complex relationship with elia as a bad thing—it’s actually a very realistic take on an arranged marriage between two decent people. but most elia stans will never be able to get over the fact that they almost had everything, which is why many have it out for lyanna, as they consider her a thief who ruined their ‘perfection.’

tbh, that might be why so many elia stans are so obsessed with the idea that rhaegar only got with lyanna because of the prophecy—they don’t want to believe that rhaegar actually loved a different woman and not their perfect self insert elia. that’s a bit mean of me… but i don’t know what else one would call the ‘elia’ elia stans have created.

now that i’ve laid all those thoughts out, i’ll try to explain why the tides seem to be turning… i think it may have something to do with the ‘targaryens are all evil and bad’ sentiment losing popularity. i think this shift has occurred due to a mix of factors, such as years of fandom fights and fandom cycles leading to the targs being more liked now than before. it helps that canon doesn’t actually condemn the targs/favors them quite a bit, and the influx of new targ fans from HOTD has also contributed. this combination of reasons seems to have shifted the way the mainstream fandom discusses all the targaryen characters, including rhaegar. so, with this shift, it’s only natural that some elia stans/elia x rhaegar shippers—who’ve always been there—are using this opportunity to push their agenda. while these stans still hate rhaegar and see him as the bad guy, they just can’t let go of him. and as the mainstream fandom moves away from the anti targaryen sentiment, these smaller corners of the fandom, which tend to be echo chambers, are also affected, which has therefore led to a rise in rhaegar x elia shippers and the ‘shifting tide’ that you’ve also noticed.

[driedlillies]

Tma AU where Jonah fucked up his ritual when transferring to Elias’ body and still exists but is like. On the backburner unable to control the body. Because he’s a loser. So OG Elias is able to hear everything he thinks but Jonah can’t do anything. And so he learns the evil plan to end the world and immediately decides nope that’s NOT happening.

And since James Wright appointed him as the next Head of the Institute he has full control over everything he destroys every single bit of Jonah’s carefully laid masterplan. And Jonah suffers seeing everything he’s build fall like a house of cards. At the end Elias just goes and kills Jonah — there were concerns that it may also kill him, but he was ready to sacrifice himself — and comes out alive and free from voyeristic georgian men.

Elias establishes something of a truce with Gertrude after explaining the situation and also perhaps maybe telling her that Jonah mentioned one of her assistants is of the Web and what does that mean? Also what are the rituals and why does Jonah keep saying they don’t work unless you— (Gertrude cuts him off before he says it out loud. Walls have ears. You never know who might be listening).

Michael doesn’t die. Neither does Gerry, because after he faints for the third time at the Institute — Elias doesn’t have spooky eldritch eye powers, but he has office gossip, and that’s basically the same thing — Elias personally goes down to the Archives and tells him to go to the fucking doctor dude. Gerry smokes weed with him after a few months and thanks him for potentially saving his life

By the time Gertrude dies, which is post Stranger ritual (not shot by him, but still probably not peacefully, knowing her) Sasha becomes the next Archivist, and her role in the overall world of the Fears — Elias is not an avatar, doesn’t want to be, but has some leftover traits from Jonah’s inhabitance in his body, and knows a lot — is explained before she signs any contract. Also you’re not tied for life, fuck that. There’s a mandatory Entities 101 for every employee, no matter what department they work in; the vast majority of them come here seeking answers for what really ruined their lives, none of them deserve to die because nobody tells them what they’re actually fighting against. Tim — very much alive — goes to the Archives with Sasha, Jon stays in reaserch and eventually becomes Head Researcher. Martin goes to college part time at some point. Life is good

[katshuya]

No matter what George does. No matter if he twisted it into "Elia was ok and never felt humiliated nor used, and the Martells didn't mind what Rhaegar did" or if George decided never to talk about Elia. R x L will always be disgusting and not a tragic love story.

Any sane human being can see that.

Even in a creepy scenario where she was ok with it OR one where she didn't love Rhaegar, he will always be to blame, and he still used her.

That's why the R x L stans always try to either ignore her existence or reduce it into nothing and her into some kind of supernatural alien human that is ok with everything dirty done to her.

Because they know their oh so tragic, self insert true love story will always seem disgusting because of Elia's existence in the story.

No amount of excuses or fanarts will ever change this truth. No matter which characters George will make accepting and supporting of them (Ned, Arthur, Oberyn, Doran, Ashara, Lewyn and even Elia herself....ect). Why? Because it's unrealistic.

Even if R and L's were running away from Aerys, then suddenly *accidentally* saw a prophecy or fell in love.

OR Even if George made it that Rhaegar wouldn't have left her if she had been able to give him another child. It doesn't change that he abandoned her and their children in the worst way possible with no protection against Aerys and his loyal kingsguard. And even then, it's hard to believe she'd accept just because he told her : Hey, I see in my dreams that I have to have 3 children or we all die. Like, what is this? She almost died for that, no thanks to you and your one after another impregnation.

It's disgusting and not well-written at all.

That's just the plain truth.

That's why a huge part of the fandom dislikes it. Not because they "didn't read the books" or "they lack critical thinking".

It's actually because they know how to think instead of inserting themselves as not like other girls girl and shipping themselves with terrible husband and father, charismatic depressed prince charming.

Poor Rhaegar had a sense of doom following him and knew he'd die soon so Elia let him be? That's very idiotic.

No. Elia being fine with annulment or polygamy isn't normal unless she is forced to. And you know it.

[spearsndragons]

I HATE IT WHEN RHAELYA FANS SAY THAT ELIA WANTED RHAEGAR TO TAKE LYANNA AS A SECOND WIFE.

UHM???? FUCK NO!

DO NOT GET ME STARTED ON THIS.

first of all, elia was the only daughter of the RULING PRINCESS OF DORNE. do people think her mother sent her off to king’s landing to be disrespected? to be humiliated? NO. she was sent there to be the next fucking queen. aside from political ambitions, the princess of dorne was canonically friends with both joanna AND rhaella. she entrusted her daughter to her friend’s son.

second, elia knew how different the rest of westeros treated their women. sure, dorne isn’t the land of equal rights and milk and honey and all that shit but she definitely enjoyed more rights and higher standing back in sunspear, especially as the daughter of house martell. she knew how precarious her status can be despite being the crown prince’s wife. what fucking good would it do to her if she allowed her husband to forcibly break a betrothal between two MAJOR houses? to basically declare to the entire world and in history forevermore that she wasn’t enough for her husband and he had to get another wife?

third, HER CHILDREN??? she gave rhaegar two healthy babies. maybe she could have given him more had she gotten proper care (no, i do not fucking trust pycelle. he’d probably been sabotaging rhaella’s and elia’s pregnancies to please tywin). rhaegar getting another wife and thus having legitimate children not hers would put aegon and rhaenys IN DANGER. sure maybe lyanna would be oh so kind enough to not contest their inheritance but do people forget the STAB alliance??? the dance???

fourth, er the mere fact that lyanna was betrothed to robert fucking baratheon? disregarding the entire shit about lya running off (or not) with a married man after shitting on robert for being a manwh0re, YOU DO NOT JUST BREAK AN ALLIANCE BETWEEN TWO MAJOR HOUSES. even if the crown had a good reason to do so (which they didn’t), it was an agreement between house stark AND house baratheon. they DO NOT get a say in it. lord, this is contract law 101. robert’s rebellion was built on a lie my ass. the rebels had every good reason to rebel bro.

I CAN GO ON FOREVER BUT ILL JUST BE MAD

[katshuya]

Ah yes. R x L stans famouse 'facts'. Like that girl who stole our boyfriend when we were teens. Not the whole disturbing story? Or maybe the screaming, crying, and throwing up over a self-insert ship? You go, girl! So edgy! 🤣 I'm honestly beyond the point of being surprised with this mentality. It's getting funny here. I'm glad you helped and edited the response, too.

Y'all love being progressive and edgy until the dishonor to the HOLY MATRIMONY and the HOLY WIFE and the SANCTITY OF A FICTIONAL ROYAL ARRANGED MARRIAGE comes to the table. Then you get flashbacks of that cool_girl/slut™ in your class that stole your boyfriend at 9th grade even though you were always so respectable and had his mama's approval, so all progressiveness flies out the window.

[cowboysanddragons23]

Debunking Rhaelya shippers' arguments:

-"Dorne doesn't frown on polygamy.": Dorne is very sexually liberal in many things, but polygamy is not one of them. They are still a class society (ex. Oberyn would never marry Ellaria even though he genuinely loves her, Quentyn Martell was a virgin and Arianne would never marry Daemon Sand.) and polygamy is illegal under the eyes of the Old and New Gods and since Jaehaerys I outlawed it and for a very good reason.

-"Elia and Rhaegar had an agreement about his affair with Lyanna." "Elia would have been ok with Rhaegar going with Lyanna." "Rhaegar took Lyanna as a second wife along with Elia.": Elia would have never agreed to Rhaegar cavorting with Lyanna, because that would be giving her enemies a recently sharpened sword to murder her and her children, as she knows that the cause of the Blackfyre Rebellions was the anti Dornish sentiment towards Myriah Martell and her son Baelor. Also, Maegor was the last Targaryen king who attempted enforced polygamy having a dragon and even he couldn't make the Faith bow. Rhaegar has no dragons to inspire obedience.

-"Rhaegar and Lyanna were in love." "Rhaegar and Lyanna was a love story." "Rhaegar would have been a great king." "Rhaegar would care about Jon." "Rhaegar and Lyanna could have been a great king and queen.": There is no evidence that points out that Rhaegar and Lyanna were in love, aside from the testimony of Barristan Selmy (who was never at the Tower of Joy, thus he doesn't know what truly happened). Rhaegar was Summerhall made flesh; obsession with prophecies, grandiose plans to save the world and willingness to sacrifice women into its altar. He took Lyanna because he wanted to prove that the prophecy that led to his birth was real and that the sacrifices his family made were worth something. Whatever fondness he had for Lyanna, his Third Head of the Dragon always came first. Rhaegar and Lyanna wouldn't have been good parents to Jon, because the former would give up on him from birth because he isn't the Visenya he wanted and the latter would be too young to be a mother (Viserys II and Larra Rogare everyone?). And besides, thousands died for it and the same happened when Duncan Targaryen married Jenny of Oldstones (who are exactly the romantic love story Rhaelya is erroneously interpreted as). Rhaegar is too obsessed with prophecies and Lyanna is utterly disinterested in ladylike pursuits.

[alishaaxo]

List of All Elia Martell-centric fics I enjoy:

Elia Martell And The Crown She Didn’t Want: AU where she marries Baelor Hightower yet Rhaegar is longing for her, which is unreciprocated.

Two Father’s, One Son: Everyone Lives AU where Jon Snow dies unexpectedly and Elia comes back to KL, married to Baelor Hightower.

The Isle Of Faces Does Not Welcome: Elia and Rhaegar have a third child, and Elia confronts Lyanna. No bashing of her, from Lyanna’s POV.

Clean AU: Elia and children are missing, assumed dead for 15 years, until a mystery knight returns to KL, claiming the blue roses his mother deserves.

The Queen And Her Bastard: Everyone Lives AU. Legitimised bastard Jon with sympathetic Lyanna slowly turned more cunning against Elia. Jon-Aegon have positive relationship, in spite of their mother’s ambitions.

The Brightest Sun: Elia and kids transported to Harry Potter Epilogue era. Train and arrive to Westeros during GOT. 200K words.

Poetry is what he thought, but did not say: Erik Kilmonger as Rhaegar. Ruthless Elia with ruthless Rhaegar who has a controversial temperament and bad reputation. Interesting dynamic with Barristan, Arthur and Aerys.

Dragons spin and spin: Spiders weave and weave: Mainly Elia Martell AU oneshot collection, with other characters included.

A tigress, not a woman: Elia Martell scorned by Rhaegar, wants for a annulment. Elia beloved by the Smallfolk.

Poison is a Woman’s Weapon: Queen Regent Elia watches on as Aegon gets crowned, reminiscing on the past.

An unexpected news item: Elia Martell gets shocking news. Very exaggerated bashing of Lyanna.

With Careful Hands and A Strong Chin: Doran died as a babe, Elia is the heir to Dorne. Arthur-Elia.

With Duty In Mind: Elia and Rhaella clean up Rhaegar’s messes.

Gone Girl: Elia dies only to wake up before her wedding. She runs away, with Rhaegar following suit in her trail in regret.

In The Chaos Of A World: Rhaegar dies while Lyanna and Elia live to see Robert ascend. Robert-Elia not in a romantic light, but political.

Caged Beasts And Cloudy Skies: Braime-centric, yet Elia-focused as they wish to crown her after the scorn from R+L, and bring her to rest at her homeland.

Lex Talionis: SIOC of Elia, takes the war into her own hands. Jaime-Elia centric.

Lady of Stormsend: Annulled Elia-Rhaegar, yet Elia married Robert and jealousy and resentment arises.

From Where Blessings Flow: Robert and Elia marry, yet the Realm is not settled as Aegon and Rhaenys grow. With Rhaenys-Viserys.

Living With Regret Of The Chance Not Taken: Rhaegar and Lyanna are married, while Elia, Aegon and Rhaenys are missing… until they are not. And life turns on it’s head. No bashing, just critical of R+L.

Planetos React: Modern AU react to historical figures Elia, Aegon, Rhaenys and Jaime found within tombs, and go wild on tumblr.

But A Woman Is A Changling (always shifting shape: My fic!! Selfless promo! Elia has a green-dress moment ala Alicent where she shows pride in her heritage and snarks towards Rhaegar and Lyanna.

This is all the Elia-centric fics I know of and enjoy! If you have any, please comment them and I’ll add them to this masterlist!!

[martellspear]

“Princess Elia was a good woman, Your Grace. She was kind and clever, with a gentle heart and a sweet wit”.

my princess never did anything wrong, genuinely one of the sweetest asoiaf characters and deserved the entire world george martin i am outside your door