#either magically (and not just I Must Give Prophecy Baby To Prophecy Womb) or politically!

[mummer]

hrrrmmm this very long conspiracy at the tourney of harrenhal theory is such food for thought..... i do not agree with everything in it of course but it’s just so thought provoking! giving preasoiaf the same level of political complexity as current era stuff... all our preconceived notions literally have to go out the window! def feeding my suspicion that rhaegar kidnapping lyanna has in fact almost nothing to do with the starcrossed-lovers or horrible-creepy-assault angles we’re presented with but at least BEGUN as something completely out of those zones! agency for lyanna that isnt demeaning moon-eyed bullshit! it’s all politics and plots and gaming the thrones or whatever... it’s all tragedy of circumstance and being forced into terrible situations... yeah let this shit be complicated!

[sheikah]

Hey! I've noticed that a lot of people, yourself included, speculate that Jon and Daenerys will have baby(/ies) in the future. This is confusing me, though, because isn't Dany supposed to be unable to have children? I can't remember how this is addressed in the show, but I know in the books it is mentioned that she will never have another child after losing Rhaego, and it's implied that she has a miscarriage in book 5. Am I missing something?

Hi there anon! Thanks for this ask. I think it’s a really interesting topic to discuss :)

First, you aren’t “missing” anything! You’re exactly right that as far as we know Dany is barren and has had at least one miscarriage. 

So why do people assume there will be a baby? Well I can’t speak for all the others but here’s why I am fairly convinced that Dany will actually have a child. 

First let’s look back Mirri Maz Duur’s words to Dany that alert us to her supposed inability to conceive: 

“When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east. When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before.”

What I think is important about these words is that they are more about Drogo than they are about Dany and her fertility. This is what Mirri says to Dany when Dany first realizes that the blood magic didn’t have quite the effect she’d hoped, when she sees that Drogo is basically a vegetable. 

So Mirri is telling Dany that all of these impossible things must take place before Drogo is ever himself again, and the inclusion of “your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child” then implies that a future pregnancy is in the same class of impossible events as “the seas go[ing] dry” and “mountains blow[ing] in the wind.” 

But Mirri never actually tells Dany that she is barren! Dany did miscarry Rhaego, but losing Rhaego makes sense because we know that since “only death can pay for life,” he had to die in order for Mirri to keep Drogo alive using blood magic. 

So I think that Mirri’s prophecy is 1. meant to upset Dany because Mirri was a salty hag and 2. a literary allusion, something Martin is really fond of. When I heard Mirri’s words to Dany I was instantly reminded of the prophecy of the Weird Sisters to Macbeth. If you aren’t familiar, in the play Macbeth visits the three witches and they tell him (among many other things) not to worry about being opposed until Birnam Wood (a nearby forest) comes to Dunsinane (his castle up the hill) and that no man born of woman can harm him. So Macbeth thinks that it is impossible for anyone to threaten him because obviously forests can’t move and all men are born from a woman. 

But then the opposing army cuts down trees in Birnam Wood and carries them up the hill to Dunsinane, and Macbeth is mortally wounded by Macduff–who reveals he wasn’t “born” in a traditional sense but “untimely ripped” from his mother’s womb via C-section.

Still with me? So basically Macbeth was given this crazy prophecy full of seemingly impossible events that came true in an unexpected way. I think the same will happen at some point toward the end of ASOIAF. We won’t see actual seas dry up or mountains blow in the wind, just like we didn’t see the woods stand up and walk to the castle on their own, and there wasn’t some godly, motherless man who opposed Macbeth–but in some way the prophecy will be fulfilled, and this will allow Dany to become pregnant. 

This raises the question of Drogo. If all of this happens, do the people who believe Dany can get pregnant also believe that Drogo will come back to life somehow, as mentioned in Mirri’s prophecy? Personally, I don’t think so. When Mirri said this to Dany, Drogo was still alive, albeit catatonic. So she was telling Dany that all of those things would need to happen for Drogo to be normal, walking, talking Drogo. But since Dany put him out of his misery Drogo is now truly dead, and not just brain dead. So I don’t think there is any coming back from that. Dany burned his body after all. 

So that takes care of Mirri’s prophecy and the first miscarriage. Dany’s implied book 5 miscarriage doesn’t give me much pause because we know that miscarriages, still births, and infant mortality are common in ASOIAF as they were in the Middle Ages. Also, if Dany did actually have a second miscarriage that itself pokes a hole in Mirri’s prophecy because it means that her womb “quickened”–she actually got pregnant in the first place in order for the miscarriage to happen.

But I have other reasons for thinking we will get a Targ baby. 

We know that GRRM and by extension D&D are big on plot twists and big reveals. The unexpected execution of Ned, the surprise upset at the Blackwater, the Red Wedding, the revelation that Lysa/Petyr essentially started the Stark-Lannister conflict, Jon’s resurrection, and R + L = J just to name a few.

So based on all of these I think it would be fitting with the style of the narrative so far for Dany to become pregnant in what is supposed to be a big shock to the average reader/viewer. I don’t buy the leaked script pages, but they suggest a conversation with Jon and Dany prior to boatsex in which she tells Jon that the dragons are the only children she will ever have. Now I don’t expect those exact words since I don’t credit the script pages, but I do think that a similar conversation will go down in order to establish that she is barren. 

So Dany’s infertility is a useful plot device because 1. Jon will feel more comfortable about his sexual relationship with Dany, thinking that he has no chance of fathering a bastard. 2. More importantly, having this idea that she is barren will makes the revelation of her pregnancy all the more satisfying and exciting for the audience since it will be such a huge surprise to mom and dad. 

So I think that the fakeout of her being barren is included for narrative reasons/dramatic effect. 

Lastly, I simply don’t believe that even GRRM/D&D would leave us with no idea of the future of the realm. While I don’t think that it is likely that the story will end happily with Dany on the throne, Jon her loving husband at her side, and bouncing baby Jonerys in her lap, I do think that it is important that we have a Targaryen heir to hint at someone to carry on the legacy of peace, freedom, and equality that have been the hallmarks of both’s Jon’s and Dany’s leadership styles. 

I’ve said before that as much as I will hate it I don’t think they will both survive, and I don’t think that either of them will truly rule the 7k on the IT. BUT I do think that one of them at least will still end the series with a considerable amount of power/political pull and the faith and love of most of the survivors of the war with the WW. So Jon or Dany (still a tiny chance they both could live but I am not holding my breath haha) will end the series as the closest thing to a king/queen in the realm. So we need the promise of an heir to give the audience the closure of thinking that their sort of leadership has a future in Planetos. 

So, for all these reasons, I don’t think Dany is really barren. I hope that makes sense anon :)