#dunlend

[anghraine]

I've seen some posts lately assuming that the Rohirrim are basically descendants of Hadorians who didn't go to Númenor. It's an understandable assumption because that is an in-story belief about the Rohirrim. However, Tolkien repeatedly suggests this is essentially a Gondorian myth.

They're not lying—by the WOTR, they genuinely believe it's correct—but it isn't true. In "Of Dwarves and Men," Tolkien wrote (c. 1969) that Gondorians "attributed to them [the Rohirrim] actual direct descent from the Folk of Hador in the First Age." Furthermore, he said:

This was a general belief in Gondor at that time [the War of the Ring], and was held to explain (to the comfort of Númenórean pride) the surrender of so large a part of the Kingdom to the people of Eorl.

In a footnote, he adds that the Rohirrim had no ancestral traditions or cultural memories of the wars of Beleriand at all. They don't really have any reason to care about this version of their history, though they accept it as it contributes to the strength of their alliance with Gondor.

Then there's a marginal note about the footnote (because this is Tolkien) that says this belief in an ancient Edainic kinship with Men of Middle-earth could have actually been true of some of the Men the Númenóreans found when they came back to Middle-earth, but not of the Rohirrim specifically. The Rohirrim may be similar to the Hadorians in appearance and temper, but they are at most related to the larger group of First Age Men that all the Edain had originated from and not any of the Three Houses in particular.

This "Edainic" concept of the Rohirrim's history is also thrown into doubt in Lord of the Rings itself, right before their first appearance, when Aragorn explains to Legolas and Gimli:

'they are true-hearted, generous in thought and deed; bold but not cruel; wise but unlearned, writing no books but singing many songs, after the manner of the children of Men before the Dark Years ... They have long been the friends of the people of Gondor, though they are not akin to them. It was in forgotten years long ago that Eorl the Young brought them out of the North, and their kinship is rather with the Bardings of Dale, and with the Beornings of the Wood...'

You know who are actually kin to the Edain, though?

Also it must be said that 'unfriendliness' to Númenóreans and their allies was not always due to the Shadow, but in later days to the actions of the Númenóreans themselves. Thus many of the forest-dwellers of the shorelands south of the Ered Luin, especially in Minhiriath, were as later historians recognized the kin of the Folk of Haleth; but they became bitter enemies of the Númenóreans because of their ruthless treatment and their devastation of the forests, and this hatred remained unappeased in their descendants, causing them to join with any enemies of Númenor. In the Third Age their survivors were the people known in Rohan as the Dunlendings.

[highkingpetermagnificent]

"of Dunland" heritage title when

[ceescedasticity]

Notably they apparently picked up some words from Dunland before coming to the Shire, and this is represented by Buckland names often having Celtic elements.

So apparently I should have been using an extinct Celtic language to stand in for Dunlendish all this time! Well, not gonna change it now.

every step of this thought process makes sense and yet somehow it ends up problematic

[hobbitwrangler]

Dunlending Remains

Prompt: Day 7 of @tolkienocweek

Summary: In the aftermath of the Battle of the Hornburg, Gamling, his grandson and an angry Dunlending must reckon with grief and loss.

Character(s): Gamling, Gamling's grandson, original Dunlending character

Rating: T

Word count: 9.7k

She stared at Gamling with a flat, empty expression on her face, waiting to see what he would do. "Greetings," he said. "I am Gamling of the Westfold and you must give me that sword." The girl was unmoved, although he could see the sweat prickling her hairline. "I am Heledd of the Marchag,” she said. Her voice was stiff and hoarse and Gamling saw that the edges of her eyes were red. “This is my father's sword." “It was your father’s sword,” said Gamling. “Until he rose up against us.” It was the wrong choice of words and he knew it. The girl’s lip curled, rage flaring behind her eyes. “We rose up against you,” she said, then repeated it in Rohirric. “We aren’t your subjects, old man. We marched against you - our enemies!” One of the Dunlending prisoners nodded but most shook their heads, glancing warily at the swords and spears that they saw about them. “Yes,” Gamling agreed. “I will grant you that. And we all know what happens to the weapons of the enemy when they have lost.” “I did not fight against you,” said the girl quickly. “Can I not take my father’s sword?”

AO3 link - lovely dividers by @saradika-graphics - tagging @from-the-coffee-shop-in-edoras because of minor Rohirrim characters!

[ridingforrohan]

1 and 2 for Fearghal <3

He's one of my favorite OC's I've ever made, so thank you so much for requesting him.

Fearghal is very handsome and he knows it. Given this ask he would probably demand that it would be unfair to limit it to just one and I would have to agree. Fearghal passed on his striking black hair to his son, only Fearghal wears it a little longer and braids it up away from his face on the right side to show his tattoos. He thinks those are worth noting too as not only are they works of art in themselves, but the blue-black ink is symbolic of his heritage and the story of his life. Fearghal also has very pretty gray eyes and is quick to smile at whatever amuses him.

As for his clothes, Fearghal is a hunter and likes to wear things that don't stand out too much. Furs and leather are readily available, but wool and linen are much harder to come by in Dunland than in Rohan. His favorite garments are dyed with the same blue-black dye used for his tattoos, but he wears a range of earth tones as well and usually has gold earrings and a gold armband (unless he has to give them up as part of a bride price or to ransom a captured cousin).

[cupkakie]

Watching the trailer for The War of the Rohirrim leaves me, at best, hopeful and at worst, sinking into cynicism hoping that it won't be a reprise of the RoP treatment by Amazon.

I don't know if I should take it as a warning sign that a Halbrandriel? Saurondriel? shipper finds parallels in a seeming enemies to lovers (but I would argue the lovers part gets thrown out the window when you look at the lore, even if the movie hints that in childhood a friendship existed between the two as children).

If this will be more of a Héra-centered movie, I wonder if the movie will also pose the question of deeds remembered or what gets recorded in history as a possible answer to why she was not named or why her potential deeds were not remembered as other members of her family were, like her father, brothers, or cousin Fréaláf.

Then again, Tolkien must have had his reasons for not including more information about her. I just hope they do give equal attention to her father and brothers in the story.

In short, I just hope this film is nothing like the hot trash fire that is Rings of Power.

[essenceofarda]

Across the River Isen (Ch5) Updated!

Read from the beginning on Ao3 | Chapter 5

Summary: When a Dunlending girl is captured by Prince Elfwine of Rohan and brought to Helm's Deep for trial for theft, events are sprung into action that will spell change across the lands. A Star Crossed Lovers kind of story.

Yay for another chapter on this fic! For those of you who like stories exploring Rohan after the war of the ring, and especially if you like Dunlendings focused fics!!

[chadsuke]

why are they making a lord of the rings anime,,,

[archaic-arda]

Dunlending by John Howe

[piano-hoarder]

This is the funniest thing I've seen all week

(from behind the making of Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers)

via YouTube.com

[anghraine]

It's weird to describe any Tolkien thoughts as "coming out of nowhere" given who I am as a person, but I woke up thinking about Ghân-buri-ghân.

I wish the depiction of him were not deeply entrenched in noble savage tropes, because there's something kind of amazing in this idea of a people who have barely survived through the ages yet still persist; who saw the earliest warning signs and ditched Númenor before most people had the slightest idea of what was going to happen; who have gotten profoundly screwed over by basically everyone except (iirc) the Haladin; who have had their own powers since the First Age; who have always been implacable opponents of Morgoth's and Sauron's forces, even as these days they're hunted for sport by the Rohirrim; and at the same time who are facing down the threat of total obliteration by Sauron. And Ghân-buri-ghân manages to navigate all of this and get his people security and autonomy.

So like ... there's a seed of a really intriguing concept there, but I'm not sure Middle-earth has ever been in the right hands to actually do it right.

[body-horror-himejoshi]

Finally getting through the lotr books after having been a huge fan of the series through the films for a long time is such a bizarre experience for a lot of reasons but the thing that's sticking out to me the most is how different the orcs are? Specifically how human they seem and how talkative they are. The conflict between the Uruk-Hai and Moria goblins is extended a lot and really fleshes them out and they have a whole back and forth with Aragorn at helms deep. It's much harder to buy into the sort of post lotr mindless evil type thing and as a lifelong orc/evil fantasy "race" lover it's honestly all the more disappointing that even this already pretty bad position got dumbed down to the point that no one blinked at orcs being barely above beasts in the films

[lukedanger]

I have some thoughts on Héra's "death" line at the climax of War of the Rohirrim and how it relates to Rohan's story during the War of the Ring.

Spoilers below for the movie!

When Héra tells Wulf that she was promised to death on the siege tower, I think that she was genuinely expecting to die there. Even if the plan went perfectly, she would be isolated from the Hornburg (as the siege tower's gangplank burned down) surrounded by an enemy army. Even if Fréaláf showed up, which to her is still a big if on timing if nothing else, that is not a situation one can reasonably expect to survive.

Yet, it's the only hope her people have to escape. She might die, but the rest would live if she could keep enough attention on her. Is this not what Théoden would do centuries later, first on the ramp of the Hornburg drawing the attention of the Uruk-Hai? Then again at Pelennor Fields, one probably last charge to try and win survival for their people. Failing that, at least choosing to die on their own terms instead of waiting for their turn to fall.

Is that not why Théoden's riders cheered "death!" at the enemy as they charged, throwing back the fear Mordor sought to spread back at its hosts? That they had accepted it and were ready to meet it? Is that not what the ideal of a warrior is so often touted as, fighting because they love what stands behind their aegis?

Héra may not have been fighting the same kind of existential war that Théoden was, but the same kind of courage was needed. Even if it all went well, I doubt she had any expectations of surviving that night. She nearly didn't, even with Fréaláf arriving and utterly terrorizing the Dunlending host into such a panicked rout. Yet, it was the way she could save those under her charge.

The moment she rode out onto the tower's gangplank, Héra truly promised herself to death.

[imperatorbaronius]

So I'm a little too obsessed now and ordered this and the art book (which comes out in February) and it's got some very interesting information about ages and relationships that'll be very useful going forward so I'll drop the ages below and anything else interesting I found

Helm: 55 years old, king for 5 years at this point in time, spent almost his entire life fighting the hill tribes and Dunlendings. This is what makes him a king who dislikes to be challenged ok his authority and decisions

Héra: 19 years old, deep love for nature and especially the more fantastical kind, her horse is Ashere. The rest, I'm sure you remember from the movie itself

Lief: 16 years old, main roles are protecting the old maps and scrolls that keep the laws and customs recorded

Haleth: 30 years old, first in line to the throne, not expected to rule for another 20 years based on Helm's own life. A brawler by nature, he's very intimidating to those who threaten his family and he's known as one of their best warriors skilled in sword, spear and axe

Háma: 22 years old, more of a gentler spirit than his father and brother, more passionate about the songs and legends. He likes to think of himself as a warrior poet and is always carrying his carved lyre. A skilled swordsman but an expert with bow and arrow

Fréaláf: 28 years old, lord of harrowdale and first marshal of the Riddermark, the highest military rank and is charged with protecting Edoras and the surrounding lands. His horse is named éored. He was raised alongside his cousins and so has a deep bond with them all but is not above teasing them frequently. He's also very ready to stand up to Helm if he believes a decision unwise

Olwyn: 45 years old, lady's maid to Héra but more become a mentor than a simple maid or servant. Thought in many battles over the years and has known great loss but finds ways to move forward and doesn't suffer fools. She sees herself in Héra as only she and a few others know Olwyn's past as a shield maiden

Freca: 40 years old, lord of the west-march. He claims to be descended from the fifth king of Rohan, Fréawine but his hair and beard instead cast doubt and suggest the Dunlendish blood runs through his veins instead. Has very little love for the kings of Rohan. Spends a lot of time dwelling on what he doesn't have and pays little heed to the king refusing summons to attend the witan

Wulf: 20 years old. Only son of Freca. His mother has also passed like with Héra. Quiet and intense most of the time, dressing in sombre colours. His belief that Héra loves him is very fragile. Expert in swords and bows. Has very little personal ambition at the start, growing up under his father's shadow and subject to his father's whims, despite this he loves his father and should anything happen he'll repay it tenfold. Should his youthful affection be spurned, that love will turn into a pathologically hatred for Helm, Héra and all the people of Rohan

General Targg: born and raised in Dunland, he has become a trusted advisor to Freca and will likely be key to Wulf's own reign. He is wise and calm but in the heat of battle will fight fiercely yet he retains a deep sense of honour as a warrior

[annabthesolitarywriter]

I re-watched this movie last night (one of my all-time favorites) and Keira here really gives me Dunland vibes. I might add one more OC just to have her in.

Guinevere. King Arthur. 2004. Keira Knightley.

[archaic-arda]

Frank Frazetta