#ds9 meridian

[walkingstackofbooks]

DS9 3x08 Meridian thoughts (I'm re-watching, so there may be future spoilers)

Oh no it's this creep

"This is Odo. My lover." Soooo convincing, especially Odo's expression XD

"I've convinced starfleet that we must continue our expansion..." BUT WHY THOUGH? I love DS9 to pieces but this never makes any sense to me that exploring is more important than the saftey of the quadrant!

He's a creep and I hate him

"I never won anything before" Awww Kira, your delivery her is just too heartbreaking. She's completely nonplussed

Quark being at a loss when he plan fails to work

I still don't really get how Jadzia can fall for someone so quickly but he's obviously the kind of flirt she's into...

I love finding little things about characters, like Jadzia being afraid of heights

It's so cheesy and romantic, the scene by the lake

"I've got to get this to Commander Sisko and Chief O'Brien... And then we can count each other's spots." Oh boy

Kira is somehow in disbelief over Quark's rapidly escalating lies XD

"I realise you have a life on Deep Space Nine, but now you'll have a place here as well, for when you visit." That's actually pretty cute.

"The person I feel sorry for is Quark" HAH. No, you don't XD (I was so confused when i read this back in my notes, I was wondering why I'd said I feel sorry for Quark :P)

She's surprisingly competitive XD I guess that's actually not so surprising come to think of it...

"I'm going to clean you and Quark out." I thought later on Julian had never played it?

This is the skeeviest thing ever. Ugh ugh ugh ugh UGH

"I'd like to prepare a little surprise." I'm excited for what she'll cook up? I'm imagining she'll replace the holo with herself then slap him or some other such delicious revenge

"Because I discussed it with Julian." Oh to be a fly on that wall.

"I bet this is the first time anyone's ever requested a sixty year leave." Oh, Benjamin, his wide smile and joke and laugh are covering up such a big sadness. You can see it threatening to burst through. This acting tho

Sisko and Jadzia's emotional goodbye is everything <3

I still can't believe she's leaving all her friends behind like that, but I guess I can see the adventure aspect? Weirdly this feels more okay than the first time I watched, I guess because I was expecting it and it wasn't so out of the blue

Hah! Not what I was expecting, but that was sure... not what he was expecting

SHE'S NOT EVEN ABLE TO SAY GOODBYE TO KIRA. THIS IS MADNESS WHAT ARE YOU DOING JADZIA

Oh man, the way she's trying to hold it together as she sinks into the corner, even as she's left on her own. FEELS

The fact she thinks she'll have sixty years left 😭😭 I wonder if Dax goes to Meridian in 60 years time to let him know...

Yeah, this is still a weird episode.

[filmjunky-99]

s t a r t r e k d e e p s p a c e n i n e created by rick berman, michael piller [meridian, s3ep8]

'I've been waiting for you.' - hologram quark

[jvlianbashir]

why does "move along home" consistently get placed in those "worst star trek episodes of all time" lists when every actual person i've spoken to about it is either neutral towards it or likes it and thinks it's good corny fun

[sirellas]

[directedbyjonathanfrakes]

[hawkp]

Sisko trying not to straight out sob when he was saying goodbye to Jadzia hurt me a little ngl

[stopthatbluecat]

Meridian 3x08

[dragontamerno3]

DS9 S3 E8 - Meridian

This episode was sweet in a lot of ways but I also kinda found it boring. I will fully admit Jadzia and Sisko's goodbye, though, had me crying. I love their friendship.

I'm not a fan of random one episode romances, the ones where they meet someone and within days turn their lives upside down or make instantly life changing decisions. I'm fairly certain its because I'm ace and don't understand the love at first sight tropes, but it feels silly to me.

That said, the Jadzia and this guy seemed to have some chemistry that it wasn't the worst to watch them come to like each other. Him deciding to stay felt like an okay thing given the planet disappearing part and how their people are dying out. If he stayed he might have been able to help them come back sooner or even had kids if Jadzia wanted to. Jadzia leaving, though, felt... sudden. I realize I'm being hypocritical but its what I think lol

Quark on the other hand, trying to creepily con Kira into walking into the holosuite to get her info? It's rare that I dislike Quark, he's probably my second favorite character but I adore most of them so its hard to pick, but in this episode I did. He was gross. He got what he deserved and so did the creep that tried to buy Kira's image.

4/10 - Because Quark is too awful in this one

[poisoncherrywine]

the lines in this episode are so cringe oh my god why is jadzia suddenly head over heels for some rando with poor acting skills

[asexualjedi]

Trying to do a Kirk episode with Jadzia… this does not work they are different characters. She would not fucking do this.

[sarahwatchesthings]

Rewatching DS9 is just an endlessly repeating cycle of "Oh yay, this episode!" and "Oh no, not this episode!"

[isthereintruthnobeauty1968]

wow this delta quadrant world looks so much like los angeles

[longsleevelaceration]

plus it's the episode where they just put out produce for alien food.

Everyone knows that ‘Meridian’ is a bad episode, but I have a specific argument for why it’s out of character for Jadzia: all of her other impulsive, risk-taking behavior is about preserving her existing relationships! She places an extremely high value on loyalty. Jadzia Dax was willing to suffer total alienation from Trill society and the eventual death of her symbiont to maintain a relationship with Lenara Kahn that Torias Dax started. Jadzia Dax was willing to risk her Starfleet career and commit murder to uphold an oath of vengeance that Curzon Dax made. Yes, she’s gregarious and flirty, yes she’s the kind of person who could meet a guy on a day trip down to his planet and immediately start a relationship with him, but she is not the kind of person who would prioritize that new relationship over her career, her symbiont, her friends, and her family.

[lostyesterday]

There’s an ethical question in Star Trek I’ve seen several people here talk about that I’ve thought about a lot. Basically, what are the ethics of having a romantic or sexual relationship with a non-sentient holographic version of a real person? This issue is brought up several times in canon, but never dealt with well, in my opinion. The main canon discussions of this topic that I remember (and it’s possible I forgot something) are in Booby Trap (TNG) where Geordi has a very brief romantic relationship with a holographic version of a real woman he’s never met, in Hollow Pursuits (TNG) where Barclay presumably has romantic/sexual relationships with extremely out of character holographic versions of Deanna and Beverly, in Meridian (DS9) where a guy wants Quark to sell him a holographic version of Kira to have sex with, and in Human Error (VOY) where Seven has a semi-long-term romantic and sexual relationship with a holographic version of Chakotay.

So, first of all, I don’t think that any of those instances mentioned are morally okay. Booby Trap is the most complicated case morally speaking since, to my memory, Geordi didn’t intentionally initiate anything romantic, though he didn’t stop it once it started either. I don’t want to imply that what Geordi did is morally as bad as the other examples I’m discussing, especially since Geordi is the only character of color being discussed here and his actions are not really equivalent in intention or impact to the other characters’. As an episode, Booby Trap doesn’t seem to have a clear idea of whether or not what Geordi is doing is unethical. In fact, it felt to me as if that question wasn’t something that occurred to the writers at all (until Galaxy’s Child, but that’s a whole other thing and the hologram portion of it is arguably the least messed up thing there, so I’m ignoring it in relation to this topic). Hollow Pursuits does portray what Barclay does negatively, but I feel like the episode is much more concerned with the negative emotional effects this has for Barclay rather than for Deanna and Beverly. Meridian, from what I remember, is the only episode to portray this situation as definitively bad, and Kira is portrayed as justified in being angry. However, the episode is a mess in other ways and does not explore the topic with nuance, making light of it with humor when I think it needed to be taken more seriously. Human Error is in some ways the most baffling case here because what Seven does is portrayed almost positively, as something that is a potentially good step in Seven’s “social development”. Apparently, there is no thought given to what Chakotay would think of the situation. I’ve seen people suggest that the narrative and fandom treatment of Seven versus the other characters is a gendered double standard, which I do think makes sense.

But the problem here isn’t having a sexual/romantic relationship with a hologram, the problem is that the person didn’t consent to having their holographic image used this way. There’s obviously nothing wrong with having sex or a relationship with a hologram not based on anyone’s image, or based on the image of someone who gave clear consent to have their image used in that way. But using someone’s image this way without their consent is pretty obviously analogous to making nonconsensual porn of someone. Do the ethics of this situation change if the hologram is of a historical figure? What about a famous person who is still alive? I don’t necessarily have answers here, but I do think the situation can become more complicated.

And then there’s another factor to consider – is the sexual/romantic relationship the biggest issue here? In the cases of Hollow Pursuits and Human Error, Barclay and Seven’s simulations of the crew are much more extensive than just the romantic/sexual portions. Would it have been all right for Barclay to create potentially offensive and demeaning holographic versions of his crewmates if there was no romantic/sexual component? Would it be okay for Seven to recreate a version of every Voyager crew member and live out an intricate alternate life with them without any of their consent if she never had romantic/sexual relationships with any of them? Is it any less a violation of someone’s rights to use their image without consent for, say, a propaganda campaign for an issue they disagree with, or a story that portrays their holographic version as a horrible person? That second scenario is the plot of the Voyager episode Author Author. This episode seems to take the moral stance that it’s bad for the Doctor to use the images of his fellow Voyager crew members to portray horrible characters, but there are other questions it doesn’t raise. Would it have been okay for the Doctor to use their images without consent if he had portrayed their holographic versions positively? What is the line between an acceptable and unacceptable usage of another person’s image without their consent? Is it ever okay to use a person’s holographic image without their consent? Is such consent implied when a person agrees to holographic scans of their body? What exactly is one consenting to when they consent to have a holographic version of themself created? I don’t necessarily have answers to these questions, I just wish any of these episodes had explored these issues with more nuance. And I do think that it’s important to consider extending the question of consent here beyond sex and romance.

[trekkie-polls]

I appreciate his contributions so much. Glad he’s had one nutrek role but it’s not nearly enough.

[hawkp]

Couldn’t give less of a fuck about this Jadzia love interest arc in this ep tbh.