#dragon theorycraft

[flightyquinn]

Since I'm once again reminded about how D&D 3.5 specifically encouraged players to pitch ways that their character is different from the standard statblock to their DM, here's a bit of theorycraft;

Eitrik Goldenbrook is a half-orc, born in a large trade city. He is the only child of an orcish workman and an elven barmaid (he counts as Orc and Elf, rather than Orc and Human). As orcs typically don't have surnames, he and his father use his mother's, and even Eitrik's first name comes from his dwarven godfather, one of his father's coworkers and a good friend of both his parents.

Physically, Eitrik takes more after his mother than his father, inheriting her slender, graceful build (he trades the +2 Con half-orcs get for the +2 Dex given to elves). On the other hand, he still has prominent tusks and notable green skin, making him mostly just look like a particularly lank and gangly orc. He has been teased by his peers about this, and developed a bit of a temper about it, which along with his difficulty speaking around his tusks makes it hard for him to make good impressions. However, he has still received a proper education, even if living in the city means he is less "in tune" with the natural world than orcs raised in the tribes (he trades his -2 Int for -2 Wis, but keeps the penalty to Cha).

[karniss-bg3]

what are your thoughts on why was kar'niss turned into a drider? your theories are so god tier, and i want to cry over my babie a little bit 💔

also how do you look at the possibility of turning him back into a drow?

Greetings!

This is a bit of a loaded question to be sure. I’ve mulled over Kar’niss’ origins for months and unfortunately the clues offered in-game aren’t substantial enough to form a solid through line. At best I can offer speculation based on drow lore alongside what information we do have and go from there. As you can imagine, none of the outcomes are good.

1) The Gambler’s Debt

A bit ago I dug into the meaning of Kar’niss’ name. With the help of an astute Anon, we managed to piece together that his name means “productive gambler”. Drow names can change throughout their life and I believe Kar’niss changed his name, either by choice or by force, after his transformation. It makes me curious what his birth name was but that’s another drop into the unknown bucket.

In this theory I believe Kar’niss wagered something valuable and lost it, or he bet on the wrong person to trust and was subsequently backstabbed. Drow societies are notorious for underhanded behavior as it’s a necessary evil in order to survive the harsh environments. If it was an item he lost it would’ve had to be something of high value and/or it belonged to someone notable in drow society. We know Minthara is part of house Baenre, the most notable clan in Menzoberranzan. She is also familiar with Kar’niss to some degree which leads me to believe they have history, especially as she seems sympathetic to his condition. Perhaps he took something from a member of house Baenre or was even a servant/slave to one of its members. I highly doubt he was related to anyone in the Baenre clan as I’d like to believe Minthara would’ve mentioned that at some stage.

Regardless of the chosen method, Kar’niss did the equivalent of “fuck around and find out” and was ultimately caught. As punishment he was turned into a drider and exiled to the outskirts of drow society.

2) Loyalty is Skin Deep

The next running theory is that Kar’niss is a Szarkai, otherwise known as an albino drow. If that is true then that would’ve gained him extra attention he likely didn’t want. Either by women coveting his unusual appearance or men who saw him as competition. The more likely outcome is that he would’ve been tasked in infiltrating the surface as he could pass for an elf without much trouble. He acted as a spy for his given house, Mistress or organization and was tasked to filter information back.

Perhaps time on the surface altered his perception. He was likely treated better by his peers and even accepted to some degree, even if that acceptance was based on deception. Maybe he fell in love with a surface dweller or simply became close with those he called friends. He could’ve either decided to abandon his post and opted to live with those on the surface, or his true identity could’ve been discovered by those he came to care for and he was ousted.

Following the tree of outcomes, these are the possible branches:

-His secret is discovered by his surface friends who turn their back on him for the deception. Kar’niss is either exiled or nearly killed in the process of escaping. For his failure in the mission he is turned into a drider.

-He is found out by his surface friends but is instead accepted by them. Other spies learn of Kar’niss’ alliance, reports back to Lolth, and eventually Kar’niss is kidnapped and brought back to the Underdark for his punishment. Instead of killing him they turn him into a drider knowing his new appearance would horrify his former companions and thus isolate him once more. Ashamed by his form, Kar’niss becomes a recluse and never sees his old allies again.

-In an attempt to deny his growing bond with the surface dwellers and in a bid to get in good with Lolth, Kar’niss opts to betray his new friends. He leads them into a trap where they are ambushed by drow scouts and killed. Kar’niss is a witness to the massacre and sees the betrayal in their eyes as the life leaves them. Consumed by guilt, Kar’niss begins to crack at the seams mentally over time. He starts to hear their voices, sees their visage from the corner of his eye, haunted by the terrible crime he committed. Eventually he comes to snap entirely, turning on fellow drow in violent outbursts and accusatory tirades. He may even severely injure or kill another drow which is what leads to him being transformed. This only worsens his fragile mental state and the “ghosts” continue to follow him everywhere he goes. The delusions are amplified once he reaches the shadow lands. To him, the shadows are the phantoms of his fallen former friends, stalking his every waking moment to remind him what he has done. It is why he is so thoroughly terrified of them and lashes out anytime someone foolishly tempts fate.

3) Love Lies Bleeding

This is more of a personal headcanon I began to write sometime ago but never finished. Essentially, Kar’niss is a slave to a cruel and overbearing mistress named Kyrzhal. She abuses, torments and mocks him at every opportunity. At some point she brings home a new male drow pet, Xaros, and parades him around in front of Kar’niss, intentionally seeking to disturb him so he no longer feels safe in his position. Kar’niss despises this man and wants him gone as he sees him as a dire threat.

To his surprise, the new addition is not only helpful but is nice to Kar’niss. He helps treat Kar’niss’ wounds after their mistress beats him, cares for him, shows him affection in a way he’s not accustomed to. Over time Kar’niss begins to trust him and even finds he feels something a little more than he anticipated. After this trust is gained, Xaros convinces Kar’niss to run away with him and escape the Underdark. At first Kar’niss is vehemently against the idea, still loyal to Kyrzhal despite the abuse. It takes time but Xaros eventually convinces Kar’niss to defect, and the two make a plan to flee.

The day comes and they take their shot. They leave the manor when Kyrzhal is gone and make a break for one of the exits out of the Underdark. Before they can reach salvation they both hear a familiar voice call out behind them. It is Kyrzhal with a hunting party of female drow. She knew about the betrayal all along. Xaros retreat from Kar’niss’ side to go to Kyrzhal as it is revealed he was working alongside her the entire time. It was a game for her amusement and both drow men were the pawns. It would be Xaros who’d gain a reward while Kar’niss was to suffer punishment.

Heartbroken and betrayed, Kar’niss is taken away, beaten for two weeks, mutilated and verbally abused. Once Kyrzhal became bored of that she opted to turn him over to Lolth who then warped him into a drider on Kyrzhal’s request.

“Death is an easy out for that one. It is my desire that he live on in the form that suits him the best. I warned him that someday I’d remove his manhood and this is the most inventive way of doing so. I hope he’ll remember this moment the next time he thinks to turn his back on his superiors.”

And he would remember, forever and always. He’ll never betray his Majesty, no matter the cost.

***

Those are just a few backstory ideas and of course all of them are sad as hell. I’ll forever be a sour apple that I can’t recruit the poor bastard and show him some love. But at least I can do so in my head!

As for him turning back into a drow, I’m all for it. I’ve written a fanfic where he does exactly that here. The most viable option we know of is the wish spell, which is rare and hard to come by but would be a cool option thematically. In the end though I’d want Kar’niss to make the choice. If he prefers to remain a drider I’d be happy with that but I’d still love him as much as a drow. One thing I do believe is that, whether drider or drow, his mental state will never fully recover. He’s been through too much and suffered immensely and that has long term effects. Still, with the right amount of care and attention he could have a happy life moving forward.

Thanks for the ask!

[cellphishthekaiju]

Crackpot Headcanon: The Emperor's 'Grand Design'

Goes without saying, that spoilers abound for Baldur's Gate 3 and course, lotta this is gonna be extrapolated ravings of a deluded fan reading too much into events, subtext, and the Forgotten Realms wiki.

This will be a lengthy doozy. I hope it's, at the least, enjoyable or useful.

The Emperor, a.k.a Balduran... our 'savior', ally, and back-stabbing squid friend who does nothing but pretend to have noble intentions from the moment he speaks with you under the guise of 'The Dreamer'. To Larian's credit, The Emperor is a very well-written character, as he can appear as either an ally or enemy based upon how players interact with not just him but the game overall. There are layers upon layers of secrets, deceit and half-truths when it comes.

But ultimately, The Emperor is the true antagonist of The Absolute crisis, only overshadowed by the Elder Brain itself, if the Player goes against him and puts the final nail in the coffin of his Grand Design.

So, first order of business; dissecting the squid's character as much as I can.

The Emperor has a very unique design when compared to illithids encountered in Baldur's Gate... which, granted, is not many as we only encounter one other named illithid and the 'common' enemy types seen, sparsely, across the game. The common sense case of this is because, obviously, this is an important character so of course they'd stand out extravagantly.

But it's this fanciful drip that leads me to believe The Emperor is much more than just some other illithid, that his deception about his opposition to The Absolute is far more sinister than the game makes it appear (and with the way the endings with The Emperor work, this feels further validated)

The Emperor may be a 'unique' breed of illithid known as a Ulitharid, a powerful and sinister 'evolution' of illithid that others view as godly, only second in power to Elder Brains... and this is what Elder Brains evolve from, usually at the Ulitharid's leisure but before it ages too far for its brain to be decrepit.

However, The Emperor's 'drip', attitude... just 'him' just screams he is an Ulitharid that broke away from The Absolute, yet has his own ambitions and no intention of furthering the Grand Design. He simply does not wish to rule a mere colony...

He IS the Grand Design (in his twisted squid brain, at least)

THIS DUDE TRIES TO SEDUCE YOU FOR GOD'S SAKE!

Anyway, The Emperor is quite powerful in his own right, both physically and mentally but when it comes to evolving, becoming an Elder Brain has its downsides; namely that he would become a massive brain forever floating in a jar or Morphic Pool. All that physical power he is proud of would be gone, forever. His mental strength would be unmatched but without a body... The Emperor doesn't seem to like that idea at all, especially if his host had been the 'great hero' Balduran, as he claims (confirmed by Ansur if one does Wyll's personal quest through Act 3)

At first, The Emperor passes himself off as The Dreamer, an entity within the Astral Prism that, repeatedly, tries to assure you that you both are in the same predicament, that The Absolute is a threat to you both and he protects you out of some noble benevolence... as well as that you need to embrace your illithid infection, consume other Netherese tadpoles to strengthen yourself, all for the 'sake' of your survival without actually explaining what is going on or who he is fighting within the Astral Prism (which turns out to be the Githyanki Honor Guard)

Once you hit Act 3, you learn of The Emperor's true nature (surprise, he's a squid!) and the reason he is able to guard you against The Absolute's attempts to transform you is due to dominating the mind of the trapped Githynki Prince to manipulate his unique psionic null-zone powers.

As you continue exploring Baldur's Gate itself, The Emperor continues to try and lure you to his 'side' of things but speaking of how he had once been an adventurer the illithids had captured and turned, how he escaped The Absolute and came back to his beloved city to protect it from the shadows (and how he took the moniker 'The Emperor) but through the course of this deceit, he seems to unintentionally reveal things about his true nature; how he was manipulating magistrates and politicians, such as his dear friend Stelmane.

This is further "supported" in-game by The Emperor attempting to seduce you.

Like guys... WHY?! What about this dude does it for some people? I'm a monster-fucker myself but like The Emperor inspires nothing aside from punching him in his squid face... with a sledgehammer.

When you reject him, The Emperor will still speak to you in a very passive tone (though a bit disappointed) but if you reject him more severely... basically call him a freak, the mask falls off and he will aggressively tell you that you are nothing more than a tool, a servant, to him

Nothing about The Emperor is noble or sincere, hell if you side with him and go full illithid, you are enslaved to him along with The Absolute, free to continue his own Grand Design to dominate the Sword Coast.

Alright, now that THAT part is over, let's move on ya.

So how the hell does The Absolute, the Crown of Karsus and the Astral Prism factor into all this?

*clears throat*

The theft of the Crown of Karsus and the Astral Prism are integral to the Emperor's plan; The Crown of Karsus would enable him to dominate and control the Elder Brain via the use of the Netherstones and the Astral Prism, due to Prince Orpheus's unique psionic abilities, would enable him to preserve and guard his mind (I assume to prevent his evolution into an Elder Brain and/or protect against other illithids, including Elder Brains)

However, he needed to orchestrate the theft of the Crown of Karsus, which lay in Mephistopheles's vault in Cania, the Eighth Layer of Baator (The Nine Hells) and the Astral Prism from some unknown location, likely guarded similarly to her phylactery (perhaps Larian referencing the old lvl 16-20 adventure module 'The Lich-Queen's Beloved')

The Dead Three were easy to manipulate, Chosen of godlings with grander ambitions but at odds with each other otherwise. Through them, The Emperor fostered his plan by managing to fool them into stealing the Crown of Karsus. Convincing and fooling the Dead Three into thinking an army of illithids, rehensible creatures without souls, was how Bhaal, Bane and Myrkul would ascend to Jergal's

This plan, in part, can be learned through finding texts in Kethric's personal quarters in Moonrise Towers along with looting Gortash's Vault in Baldur's Gate.

The theft of the Astral Prism, however, likely proved much trickier for The Emperor, since it was under the possession of, what is essentially the Apex Predator of illithids; The Githyanki Queen Vlaakith CVII. This is how Viconia and Shadowheart become involved. He needed a backup plan in the event the Dead Three failed to retrieve the object.

Manipulating disciples of Shar, especially Viconia DeVir, was likely the best answer, especially if he needed agents that had a chance to retrieve the Astral Prism, given how obsessively Vlaakith likely guarded the device and being a powerful lich, her safeguards would be powerful and many. The Emperor, and by extension the Dead Three and The Absolute would lose nothing.

Heh, irony amirite?

I suspect The Emperor found some means to convince DeVir, under the pretense of Shar's command, to put together a means to steal the Astral Prism. Unfortunately, all the game ever gives us is a list of who was on the strike force, including Shadowheart, who does have the Astral Prism when introduced.

However, there was always something that bugged me about this part and that is in the notes about the theft. The Dead Three were planning to make the theft themselves, using tadpoled agents and a nautiloid (though giving no indication WHERE they were going) with the assumption that The Emperor was leading the team (believing they controlled him and not the other way around).

This, kinda, explains the 'story' of how Tav and the rest of the characters are tadpoled on the nautiloid together. (The Dark Urge was tadpoled before but that's a whole other thing)

My thoughts?

Ready for more crazy?

The Emperor manipulates DeVir and the House of Grief into going after the Astral Prism. The Dead Three 'assign' The Emperor to go after the Astral Prism but he simply intends to 'retrieve' (ala kidnap and tadpole) what's left of the Sharran team and collect the Astral Prism for himself. We see the first signs of his duplicity in the opening cinematic, even. Several of the illithid crew are dead before the githyanki kith'rak attack the ship... but there's no indication as to how and why they were killed

(There's some thoughts to be had there)

Interestingly enough, The Emperor planeshifts the nautiloid to Yartar and starts attacking the city, which seems to draw the Githyanki raiders to attacking the ship... then he jumps it to what is (presumably) Cania, the 8th layer of Baator (where the Crown of Karsus had been stolen), then ultimately Avernus before taking shelter in the Astral Prism... which I think man explain why we find Shadowheart's pod seperated from the cauldera room Lae'zel and Tav (Any Origin) start in.

To make a long, lunatic story endless, the Emperor manipulated everything from the day he left The Absolute (his story about leaving The Absolute twice is absolute horseshite), envisioning himself ruling all of the Sword Coast with Baldur's Gate as his 'throne'.

Welp, this went on WAY longer than I expected but I hope it was, at least enjoyable. If folks enjoy my crackpot theories, ah... well, you're welcome to ask me stuff or a pitch. Asks are always open (I think)

[themarydragon]

Dragon Age: Origins potentially started with a bloodbath/tragedy (depending on which origin you picked) and then a betrayal in the prologue takes out your mentor/savior, king, new friends, and a whole-ass army (not to mention a lot of very good doggos).

DA2 kicked off with the loss of a city we knew from DA:O and then a character death (a sibling, no less), and then a major betrayal in the first act (not to mention the OTHER sibling's fate). And that's just the EARLY tragedy.

DA:I kicks off with the destruction of the Temple of Sacred Ashes (also from DA:O) and then jumps right into the destruction of Haven & death of countless allies in the prologue.

So it would follow suit if they killed someone(s) very early on in a way to get the DA veterans immediately invested in murdering the new antagonist(s) instead of focusing solely on Solas.

That said.

Tell me why Varric didn't get his name flashed across the screen when Lace Harding did.

Is there anybody that could get merc'd in the prologue that would piss all of us off more than Varric?

I don't want to be right. But I only trust Bioware to hurt me.

[arcandoria]

because some of my poor friends are struggling to keep up with 10+ year of Dragon Age OC lore that only existed in my head so far:

DA Origins

Alythess Cousland Rogue, Warden, Hero of Ferelden, the canon protagonist (LI Alistair, becomes Queen)

Elros Mahariel of the Sabrae Rogue, not a warden, joined the party post-Ostagar, father to Serilyel (no LI)

DA 2

Garrett Hawke Warrior, Champion, the canon protagonist (LI Anders)

Marian Hawke Rogue, Garrett's twin, largely unknown (no LI)

DA Inquisition

Ekaterine "Ekko" Trevelyan Mage, Inquisitor, Herald of Andraste, the canon protagonist, half-elf (LI Cullen)

Serilyel Mahariel of the Lavellan Rogue, Regent (right hand of the Inquisitor), Elros' daughter, Ekko's half-sister (LI Solas)

[icespyders]

ooooh i got all mad about veilguard again, time for more word vomit

so the release date trailer tells us more about the plot of the game: in an attempt to avert the destruction of the Veil, rook instead inadvertently freed the Evanuris, the elven gods who once ruled Arlathan and have been imprisoned in the Fade/Beyond since the Dread Wolf tricked them and trapped them when he created the Veil in the first place. in the trailer, solas's dialogue refers to the Evanuris as "corrupted," and the main hook of the game seems to be defeating the elven gods before they destroy the world (idk why they want to destroy the world, i guess they're just super cheesed off about being imprisoned in the Fade for eleventy billion years). it also seems like the return of the Evanuris and/or whatever damage solas managed to inflict on the Veil has made magic go haywire in Thedas (it looks like harding is doing some sort of magic akin to magic we've seen sandal inexplicably do in DAO/DA2, probably linked to the Titans introduced in The Descent, which means it's all linked to lyrium somehow, and that's cool at least), which makes sense, since Arlathan was a society suffused with magic and the lack of magic post-Veil led to their destruction, as far as we've seen so far; them coming back and bringing wild magic with them tracks to me. the fact that we're specifically using the word "corrupted" suggests Blight sickness, which also makes sense, since both elven lore and the tevinter lore features a distant city, where the Evanuris are trapped and where the tevinter magisters trespassed and brought the Blight down on the world; if this is the same city in both traditions, it makes sense for the Evanuris to be Blight-sick, if that indeed is the source of the Blight and the darkspawn etc

my big problem is that: i really really hate the evil Evanuris rewrite, because our only source claiming the Evanuris are evil is solas, the Dread Wolf, a literal trickster god who lies constantly to suit his own ends, both in lore and in practice in DAI. he spends all of inquisition lying directly to everyone around him! even solas stans have to admit that; he's not telling the truth about himself, his goals, and his knowledge of the whole situation with the Breach and corypheus. i simply do not trust anything he says, so i'm really disappointed that, apparently, this whole time i was supposed to fully believe a trickster when he talks nonsense that contradicts previously established lore.

the elves are one of the most oppressed groups of people in the entire series, whether city elves or dalish; imo only the qunari have a rougher time in thedas. merrill, for example, talks all the time about the hole left in her understanding of herself and her heritage because their records are gone, their artifacts are scattered or broken, their society was all but destroyed (Jaws of Hakkon ultimately is all about this, too, ameridan being an elf was deliberately erased from records and i doubt he's the only one). so the elves hang onto their traditions about the Evanuris and Arlathan because it's pretty much all they have left of their culture, and it just really rubs me the wrong way that Veilguard takes the faith culture of this deeply oppressed group of people and twists it into something nefarious. i've played an elf in most of my dragon age runs where that option is available to me, and i've always really enjoyed picking up codexes about the lore and legends. i thought really carefully about picking vallaslin when i played as a lavellan inquisitor in my first time through DAI. i really hope that there's more to the Evanuris in Veilguard than solas's rewrite of the lore, but i have a bad feeling they're just gonna be the bad guys no matter what, and it sucks for me. i went all through Trespasser skeptical of anything and everything solas claims that contradicts previously established lore, but i guess i was the idiot all along!!!! stupid me, refusing to trust a trickster god who played me for a fool for all of inquisition, doing his Dread Wolfy play-both-sides bullshit. i should have realized solas is actually the main character of the entire franchise. fuck this game

[thisfragilesky]

on the idea of godhood and my one giant lore catchall post

spoilers for dragon age, inquisition, and trespasser dlc, etc.

this plays off of a post i read recently (i didn't remember to save it) that referred to a word used in a codex entry that basically corresponds to 'the idea and worship of power/godhood made real', as in the worship of a figure, at sufficient quantities, granting them real power. the post theorized this was how the evanuris went from being mere generals in a war to being worshipped as mage-gods, same for solas and possibly mythal. i believe it also mentioned the idea that the way the 'gods' were worshipped would've affected the gods' demeanor as well, though that becomes more of a chicken vs egg situation.

anyway. here's some thoughts i've been having.

according to solas, 'Falon'Din's vanity and desire for worshipers was so great he started brutal wars to gain more, killing all who would not bow to him.' it's unknown if the other evanuris did similar things, but the general idea is that: gain worshippers to gain power through their worship.

the chantry's goal '...is to spread the Chant of Light to all four corners of the world and to all races... Once all peoples have accepted the Chant and practice its teachings, the Maker will return and restore the world to its former glory.' (emphasis mine, quoted from the wiki)

so.

would the idea of 'worship of power/godhood made real' apply to this as well? that the meaning of the chantry insisting on spreading the chant of light to all of thedas is to mean that once everyone/enough people worship and believe in the maker, he will have power (again) to affect the world, whether the chantry knows this or not?

going down this line of thought leads me to think.. regardless of whether the maker is Real God or a Powerful Mage Worshipped to Godhood, the concept of the Original Sin would line up with a very primeval 'had his children/worshipers turned away from him, thus diminishing his power' that may have happened before the actual original sin.

would the same apply to how the qunari leaders try to spread the teachings of the qun? as far as i can tell, the qun maybe honors the askhaari koslun, but he isn't venerated as a god or as in having powers aside from the tales of his visions and prophecy regarding his teachings. i think. i did a brief skim on the wiki.

in light of it all, this could be an aspect of atheism trying to quell all the powers vying for godhood in the world. don't believe in gods! any of them! you'll give them power! all you need is order and obedience!

in works, in theory.

anyway, the thing that's been on my mind the MOST:

the Forgotten Ones, the void, and the blight. bear with me.

All that the Maker has wrought is in His hand Beloved and precious to Him. Where the Maker has turned His face away, Is a Void in all things; In the world, in the Fade, In the hearts and minds of men.

(emphasis mine, quoted from the wiki as from the canticle of threnodies)

i've read and may or may not subscribe to the theories about the blight originating from the void, from the implication of andruil going hunting in there for the Forgotten Ones and becoming Infected, bringing a plague back to her lands. assuming this story is true, then that is where the initial taint came from that could have affected the primeval thaig in the free marches (it being somewhat close to the forest of arlathan could lend credence to this) before the tevinter magisters ever entered the fade.

according to the wiki, the codex for fen'harel gives us that 'Forgotten Ones are a dark mirror presiding over the worst aspects of existence: disease, terror, spite and malevolence. They serve not as shepherds of the elves, but rather as figures of fear and dread.'

SO. IF:

andruil's plague = blight the plague = came from the void the void = either 'the maker turned his face from it' or 'the maker is not present here' The Forgotten Ones = worst aspects of existence, reside in or were born of the void the evanuris = aspects of the maker? (i THINK morrigan mentions this idea)

the evanuris as the relatively more positive aspects of the maker warring against the forgotten ones, the objectively more negative aspects of the maker, while both try to spread their versions of.. idealogy, i guess?

i say this because i question what the whole point of the blight is. but if the blight comes from the void, and the void is where the forgotten ones are or live or come from, and if the forgotten ones are.. possibly.. negative aspects of the maker... it's less that 'the maker is sending us trials by cleansing fire via the blights' and more 'this splintered part of the maker (the forgotten ones) wants to spread this negative blight to make themselves more powerful'.

the evanuris, though relatively More Positive, also apparently just want to make Themselves more powerful (because ambition can be both good and bad). and maybe initially the war between the evanuris/ancient elvhen and the Forgotten Ones WAS a war against the negative aspects of the maker, to prevent the bad from overtaking the good.

(but perfectly good and perfectly bad are in no way perfection, in and of themselves)

solas says the evanuris were mortal. there's theories that they're spirits, whose identities depend on how they are remembered and worshiped.

i say: who is to say that solas's insistence on their mortality ISN'T just another way to alter their state, to MAKE them mortal just be believing that they are. spirits can alter their reality. and with how cole made himself corporeal, the idea that spirits can just become Real and Physical if they Believe it (or are believed in?) hard enough has implications on, maybe, how some things came to be:

the evanuris: the practice of vallas'lin dedicating (unhappy, ungrateful) slaves to the evanuris affecting their later behavior (madness, vanity, betrayal) the avvar gods: powerful spirits(?) given stewardship over the avvar clans by their reverence and worship. one can even be bound to a dragon, just like how the grey wardens bound demons. just like how you could bind cole, if you wanted. the void: did the maker turn away from those dark parts of himself, whether in fear or shame? did they fester in resentment and give rise to things void of love? the forgotten ones: because every light makes a shadow, whether intended or otherwise. these shadows are black and forgotten, and they want you to know that you are, too. the dragons you fight: were they heroes worshipped to dragon-godhood, like the ancient human tribes of old did? which hero was hakkon made to possess and subvert? which angry soul perverted hakkon's purpose? the old gods: who created them, and for what? (i have ideas.) the titans: did they make the dwarves or did the dwarves make them? (i'm thinking about this) the archdemons: like demons. a spirit's purpose, perverted. the blight: a perversion of life? or the spiritual equivalent of terraforming the world for an incompatible race? the inquisitor: are you who you are or are you what they believe you to be? how do you know? you are, inevitably, a product of society and what it expects from you. the maker: did someone make him, too? what did they expect of him?

...and, you know, maybe i'm a bit crazy to theorycraft in this direction. but you know what?

i wonder if the impression of teyrn loghain on the fade is ultimately that of a traitor or a hero. i suppose that depends on how you, the player, altered his story and what people believed of him, how they remembered him. if he is remembered as both, is he both? can he only be one?

does this make you a spirit? does that make you a Maker?

[mistswalker]

Some thoughts on the Void and the Mists

End of Dragons has been on my mind a lot. I found the Void fundamentally and thematically intriguing beyond its clear reception of the real-world emotions contemporary with the EoD release.

It raised many questions— About the difference between the Void and Mists. The differences and reasons for the differences between the apocalypses of Kralkatorrik's rampage and Soo-Won's void corruption. About the nature of the Void and its role in the Eternal Alchemy.

What I hadn't expected was the way those questions were answered, or the greater implications they seem to have. I felt like many things about the larger metaphysical lore clicked into place with this new understanding— The deeper nature of the Mists. The "madness" of the Elder Dragons. The role of the Forgotten, and the lasting and unintended impacts of the Six on Tyria. While I'm sure I'm extrapolating and reading a bit much into certain things, as I always have with this series, I'm definitely glad to have this understanding of these concepts for moving forward with my own fanworks, and I haven't quite been able to shake the high of cracking this metaphorical Da Vinci code.

Now, this all gets a big disclaimer that some of this includes extrapolations and headcanons I've previously built for my stories, but that aside, let me just rehash some of the basics of the Mists. As we know, the Mists are potential incarnate. The Mists, "the All", and the "Void" are all facets of this same concept, and each of these facets are interconnected. Each culture in Tyria seems to interpret what it knows of the Mists in different ways. The way most of Tyria seems to best understand the Mists' nature of infinite potential is when it's represented as a physical space. Areas of manifested potential all chaotically swirling, building, deconstructing, and rebuilding. The God realms. The afterlife. The Fractals. The Mists War.

This facet of the concept is what's most observable. But that aspect of the Mists is only the answer to the question "where?" "The Void", on the other hand, is raw coalesced magic. The clay of reality. The raw potential that could be shaped into anything and that manifests reality as its observed to its inhabitants. In this sense, the Void could be considered the Mists' answer to "what?"

"The All", also known as the Eternal Alchemy, is what ties these two pieces together. It is the fractal-pattern of how that reality manifests. The "blueprint" for what the clay is built into. Each new reality's blueprint is slightly off from the last, creating the infinity of the butterfly effect, and the in-world nod to the multiverse of commander timelines. The Mists' answer to "how?"

I speculate that the overlap of The All is an important factor in the distinction between the two potential apocalypses of Kralkatorrik and Soo-Won.

This is what the people of Tyria have decided is the most genuine representation of "the Eternal Alchemy" at work: Six magical aspects that balance and sustain a world. We see this with the elder dragons, obviously. But where's the other notable place in which six magical aspects tried to balance and sustain a world, only to strangely leave theirs and seemingly planehop to the setting of our story?

The Human Gods.

They aren't perfect matches for each of the Elder Dragons— but they didn't have to be. They were what was created with the clay of their universe, following the larger scale "pattern" in their own unique way. They also exhibit a parallel ascension to that of Aurene taking the mantle of Elder Dragon, and we witness this with the birth of the goddess Kormir from the spearmarshal Kormir.

Another noteworthy parallel between the Gods and the Dragons is something only observable over time in their lore and history— we notice the Gods beginning to go mad, and manifesting in darker and more twisted aspects of themselves as time goes on during their ultimately brief stint in Tyria.

We see it clearly with Abbadon. We see implications of it with Dhuum. And finally, we see further hints of it with Balthazar (including some very creepy deep-lore and environmental storytelling in his realm, but I'll get to that some other time...) But to get into the Gods and the God Realms further, I need to explain what leads me to believe that the Human gods are the reason for the distinction between the Kralk apocalypse (where all of the Mists began coming undone), and the Soo-Won apocalypse (where this facet of reality began dissolving into Void). And to do that I need to talk about inter-planar travel. So we know that many finite universes within the Mists share many aspects with each other, just altered in small ways that stack up over time. We also know that the people of the world experience the Mists to be a sort of afterlife in addition to being a source of all history and potential. We have also seen and visited different "domains" within the mists. The part of the Mists that is the physical living realm, influenced by these forces is the globe in the center. The gray and colored areas outside of it are pieces of reality concretely formed enough to influence that globe very strongly. Tyrians perceive those things as "real", and those include the "domains" in the Mists.

Everything else out here? That's what Tyria thinks of as "the Mists" in a small-scale sense. The parts of reality that don't have strong shape. The place where potential fragments. This is where the Fractals are. This is where Rytlock was trapped. This is where Kralkatorrik rampaged.

When Kralkatorrik fell back out of the Mists on this rampage, he pulled parts of the God Realms with him. Aurene noted he was being drawn to familiar magics— Melandru's realm and that of Grenth were included alongside the Fissure of Woe this despite Kralkatorrik having only tasted the specific magic of one of those three gods. We could take that a number of ways, but, to me, that speaks to not only a continued parallel between the Gods and the Elder Dragons, but also as a hint to how the Six gods stepped over the border between their original shard of reality and ours.

The Six were magically fluent inherently. They were gods—the Elder Dragons of their homeworld. They used the aspects as a tether between their own domains and the matching magic here in Tyria. They were able to find stasis in the magic aspects themselves.

If we accept the Gods as parallel Elder Dragons, then we can further extrapolate that the Elder Dragons potentially have their own connected pseudo-realms within the less firm parts of reality. Personally, I've long believed this made a great deal of sense as to the nature of their hiveminds, and have talked about that in other non-tumblr babbles about the nature of the Dream and Nightmare to Sylvari.

That aside, since the Elder Dragons were asleep and any "domain" aspect of the Mists connected to them was only utilized for their hiveminds, the Gods would be free to shape some of these mirrored domains to match their own preferences. This borrowing of the Elder Dragons place in our world, ultimately, is what I believe utterly destabilized things when Balthazar was killed.

It wasn't an immediate destruction because of the other Five's foresight. They'd had the good sense to drain most of his magic when they detained him, but they couldn't drain all of it without destroying his essence itself.

So despite their best efforts to mitigate the risk— taking their personal exodus of not just Tyria but the Tyrian Mists as a whole, and draining Balthazar of as much of his magic as they could safely take with them as only 5, upon Balthazar's death there was still excess otherworldly magic lingering in the Tyrian Mists. And the Mists had already become very volatile due to the destruction of two of their own six structural guardians. Magics were mixing in ways they hadn't since the formation of structure in the realm. Things were already heading toward Void and unmaking of this reality, but what tipped the scales into an unmaking of all reality was that lingering excess magic from another realm. One that's very nature tied two realms together.

Kralkatorrik, with Balthazar's ability to walk between planes, began rampaging in multiple facets of reality, ripping bigger and bigger holes and mixing the contents inside like containers of different liquid.

And because of the fractal-like way the Mists infinitely follow the same larger-scale patterns, this was happening not just in several planes, but several iterations of those connected planes. (which you can visualize with the different commander-timelines. Each different commander who reaches season 4? Is another "iteration" of that fractal.)

Aurene, when she ascends to Kralkatorrik's place as an Elder Dragon, spends a huge chunk of time repairing the Mists after this. And the most important part of that would have been isolating Balthazar's magic and putting it back in the realm it belongs in. Limiting any future fallout to their plane. Now that each plane has the same amount of clay it started with, things are more stable in that sense.

Glint gives Aurene advice on Ascension posthumously prior to this. That same Ascension that was tied to the Forgotten, and "True Sight", and the equivalent of the Canthan concept of "Weh no Su" ("Closer to the Stars") and described by humans as being a "state of communion with the Gods". Which leads me to the next piece of this larger puzzle: The Forgotten.

We know the Forgotten appeared in Tyria during the last Dragon Cycle. We also know they reappeared and made their presence known in association with the human gods— but we also know that the Forgotten originate from the Mists. They are yet more planeswalkers.

I've mentioned before believing that the Forgotten worked with the human gods to minimize the fallout from their arrival in Tyria. We see Forgotten philosophies echoed in Glint, the Exalted, as well as in Ventari and his peaceful centaur clan. They were very dedicated to Balance. I hypothesize that they were some of the first planeswalkers. They likely learned about the impacts of mists-travel firsthand and resolved to dedicate their existence to preserving stability as a result. (Which may be why even they call themselves "the forgotten". They've existed for so long on the fringes of reality that they may not remember where they came from, only why they're still there. But I digress.)

Ascension and the Forgotten were something integral to fighting the Mursaat (yet again, even more planeswalkers in Tyria) because of how it granted the subject "True Sight" and the ability to see between the realms where the Mursaat liked to slip away and hide.

The Forgotten also had found a way to cleanse individuals from the elder dragon hiveminds as we see in Path 3 of the Arah dungeon, allowing them to preserve free will. I think these two concepts are related in a way.

if Ascension is what taught Aurene how to re-stabilize multiple planes of reality from such a catastrophic mixing of magic, and was also what turned her from a being of crystal into a being of prism? Something that filters light into its base components and sorts it all out? Ascension must be something gives one a sense of their place in the All, their role in the broader workings of the Mists, while helping them reshape themselves to fill that role.

(As a brief tangent, that may also play into Scarlet's fall in Omadd's machine— Omadd's machine was intended to "see and understand the Eternal Alchemy". An artificial ascension. And she certainly embraced her larger role.) Now back to Soo-Won, the origins of Tyria and the Elder Dragons, and the Void-based apocalypse...

Soo-Won talks about being the mother of the other elder dragons. The first one. How she eased her own pain of loneliness by creating children to share the magic with. We see a similar narrative in some senses with the human gods-- Dwayna is looked at as the "first" and the "leader". she's the literal mother of Grenth.

We also see Soo-Won hold off the madness of the Void the longest. Her elemental representation is water-- the foundation of life as we know it. I think that her account of history as being the mother of the other elder dragons and raising them as hatchlings is in some ways true and in some ways metaphorical, as it likely predates Tyria as a concrete reality.

It makes sense to me that Soo-Won was the first consciousness to manifest in the Void as reality began to shape itself. The first sense of will to help the blueprint unfold. the other elder dragons are, in that sense, her "children", but also nearly peers in terms of age in concrete reality. They were created by her will, her loneliness, but reality only solidified into what we know as "Tyria" when all of the aspects found a natural balance.

It makes sense that the Elder Dragons lived lives of isolation— if their distinction had created structure from chaos— something that clearly frightens even Soo-Won, the most familiar with it — of course the answer to that would be separation. Isolation. Loneliness even when no longer alone.

Of course this forced isolation would slowly erode loneliness and despair into selfishness and resentment in many of them. And so of course, then, their own madness and corruption stems from that internal agony. And what is it's drive? How does it take from the world? Consumption. Forced assimilation under their own domain.

"Become part of me. Not the void. Me."

What is the Forgotten's answer to this? The way to preserve balance? To replace the cycle of consumption with a cycle of distribution. willful sharing. Social sharing. A bond between dragons and mortals.

The answer to the fear of being alone isn't to force others into your realm. It's to learn to coexist with them. That's how you fight the instinctual call of the Void.

This is what finally made sense as the answer to Aurene's question. "Why do they all go mad?" The "madness" of the dragons is that— the instinctive call of the Void as they become overwhelmed by pain and suffering and can no longer stand their isolation. They consume and consume more and more to try to sate that emptiness. They grow imbalanced in their identities as they struggle to process all that they consume that doesn't fit.

They don't want to give it back. They don't want to be alone again. Eventually though, it seeps out of them and they awaken more pained and ravenous than before.

[criffyzou]

More random D&D transposition because overthinking things is my favorite hobby. All 3 of my Thedas girls conveniently fit into my fav d&d class, ranger.

Tini Brosca (legionnaire scout/assassin): Hill dwarf Monster Slayer Ranger I love tanky, warrior-like rogues; legionnaire scout is my fav for that reason. Monster slayer does not exactly scream tanky rogue, but it has the magic defense and wardenish vibes.

Emmanuelle Hawke (shadow/assassin): Human Fey Wanderer Ranger Hawke has the shadow spec because Isabela already had duelist. My fav aspect of it was the misdirection and confounding; fey wanderer has that plus purple Hawke energy.

Sheana Lavellan (assassin): Wood elf Horizon Walker Ranger Sharing a specialization with companions was my least favorite part of DA:I, but assassin was alright. Horizon Walker has good Inquisitor vibes, with portals instead of rifts.

And now all companions with no explanation whatsoever:

Leliana (bard/shadow): Human College of Whispers Bard

Alistair (templar/guardian): Human Oath of the Watchers Paladin

Morrigan (shapeshifter/blood mage): Human Circle of the Spores Druid

Zevran (assassin/duelist): Wood elf Assassin Rogue

Sten (reaver): Goliath Path of the Zealot Barbarian

Wynne (spirit healer): Human Divine Soul Sorcerer

Shale (no spec): Warforged Rune Knight Fighter

Oghren (berserker/champion): Hill dwarf Way of the Drunken Master Monk

Velanna (keeper/shapeshifter): Wood elf Circle of the Land Druid

Sigrun (legionnaire scout/shadow): Hill dwarf Phantom Rogue

Nathaniel (assassin/ranger): Human Hunter Ranger

Justice (spirit warrior/guardian): Scourge aasimar Oath of Vengeance Paladin

Anders (spirit healer/battlemage): Human Celestial Warlock

Fenris (spirit warrior): Drow Psi Warrior Fighter

Isabela (duelist): Human Swashbuckler Rogue

Aveline (guardian): Human Oath of the Crown Paladin

Merrill (blood mage/keeper): Wood elf Archfey Warlock

Bethany (force mage): Human Graviturgy School Wizard

Sebastian (shadow?): Human War Domain Cleric

Varric (artificer): Hill dwarf College of Lore Bard

Dorian (necromancer): Human Necromancy School Wizard

Sera (tempest): Wood elf Swarmkeeper Ranger

Solas (force rift mage): High elf Aberrant Mind Sorcerer

Iron Bull (reaver): Goliath Path of the Berserker Barbarian

Vivienne (knight enchanter): Human Bladesinger Wizard

Cassandra (templar): Human Order Domain Cleric

Blackwall (champion): Human Banneret Fighter

Cole (assassin): Changeling Way of the Shadow Monk

Bonus round !

Ariane (champion): Wood elf College of Valor Bard

Finn (spirit healer): Human Knowledge Domain Cleric

Jerrik (duelist/ranger): Hill dwarf Beast Master Ranger

Brogan (reaver/berserker): Hill dwarf Path of the Battlerager Barbarian

Tallis (assassin): Wood elf ??

Rules were: max 3 characters of the same class (not counting my 3 ranger gals), every class has to be there at least once, and it has to be thematically coherent with my own lore builds. I didn't do multiclass as it is more fun to me to integrate the different themes of a build into one (1) subclass but, mechanically, some should put levels elsewhere. I will not be taking criticism at this time for my decision to make the reavers barbarians instead of the berserkers. I know I am right.

Now I know I said no explanation but I can't resist rambling about characters sharing a main spec in Dragon Age but not a D&D class:

Force mage: Bethany & Solas Rift mage is just reflavored force mage, but in Solas' case I wanted to imply that something sinister was afoot, even if some force mage essence was lost in the process. It does tie back to force mages using their mind as a weapon though.

Assassin rogue: Zevran, Nathaniel & Cole This one is very straightforward in the ways they differ: Zevran is the only trained assassin, Cole hides in the shadows, and Nathaniel is a darkspawn killer.

Spirit Healer mage: Wynne, Finn & Anders Despite Wynne technically being possessed, her spirit is not a presence she feels, more like an abstract protection; Finn is a book nerd; Anders is in a committed relationship.

[aikoiya]

Dragonsbane Flower

There is a flower colloquially called dragonsbane.

When used raw, then boiled into a tea or soup, it can poison a dragon by making them drowsy & filling them with a feeling of contentment & coziness. It's important that said dragon not sleep as it will only advance the poison's progress.

If they can stay awake until the dragonsbane has gotten out of their system, it's possible for them to survive. If they sleep, though, they will fall into an unresponsive coma, then die if left untreated, though if nothing else, it's a peaceful death.

If it's treated quickly, then it lowers the risks present & raises survivability by quite a bit. Thing is, it's a very deadly killer precisely because it's so unassuming. You get sleepy after drinking a good tea, your immediate thought isn't gonna be, "was I poisoned?" Rather, "goodness, I feel so comfy & relaxed; time for a nap."

However, if dragonsbane is properly processed, it can be used to temporarily subdue the draconic blood of draconids.

Dragons also have an allergic reaction to the pollen of dragonsbane, but other than some pretty bad hayfever, not much else happens. So, it isn't deadly unless consumed.

Fae & shamanic dragons were known to be able to isolate what chemicals conjured the soporific & cozy/comfy feelings of dragonsbane tea & use them to make a safe version that many of the dragon aristocracy used when they were stressed & could not sleep. This version was a tincture called Dragonsdream.

At the same time, this process takes an at least halfway decent knowledge of toxocology & herbalism. So, illicit alchemists (illegal drug manufacterers) will sometimes try to make dragonsdream cheaply & end up with a product that isn't as effective &, thus, create something that the law enforcement at the time called Dragonsdread or knock-off Dragonsdream.

This Dragonsdread, depending on how badly the illicit alchemist did, it can result in a product that initially works as intended, but then puts the drinker into a coma that could last for months if not years. Sometimes, the drinker will die if a healer doesn't apply an antidote quick enough.

But if it was particularly badly done, the drinker can die as soon as at the end of their normal sleep cycle.

The only known cure is Mawkap pollen. It is a horrendously virose orange mushroom with a yellow top. So putrid is it that it easily acts as a natural smelling salt. Has a vile taste & should never be eaten under any circumstances besides in exact, miniscule doses & even then, it is highly unpleasant & it is very, very heavily recommended that one not take it frequently. Will cause violent nausea, vomiting, & diarrhea to the point of internal bleeding. Can easily kill you if you don't act quickly enough & it won't be a pleasant death either. On the other hand, a tiny amount acts as a damn good laxative which is the only reason one should use it, ever, & only, as mentioned before, in exactly measured, miniscule doses. Not to mention, smelling is relatively safe if horrid to experience.

To wake a dragon from a Dragonsbane-induced sleep, they must breathe in a Mawkap's pollen. Problem is, they are extremely rare. - Inspired by the smelly mushroom used to wake the Shoemaker in Minish Cap.

---

While not necessarily a Zelda applicable Flower, I like to be thorough.

So, in Zelda, Zonai can simply boil a tiny amount into tea & get the same affect as Dragonsdream. However, this is mainly due to them not being true dragons unless they undergo draconification.

LoZ Wild Masterlist

[nadas-dirthalen]

Very, VERY much agree!

I think it's because people have been waiting ten years. All the fandom had after Inquisition were the veritable crumbs left behind — threads that could and did lead to the next instalment in the series.

But the problem is, since that's all they had for a long time, now there's this misconception that that's all there is. But to me, it's like if Bioware would have explained the Conclave before DA:I. Does it seem like a major event to someone who has just come out of DA2? Yes. But how does it compare to the entirety of Inquisition?

Now, gonna say off the bat: I'm new, by comparison. I wasn't around when DAI came out, so I don't know what Bioware's last marketing push looked like (and it should be noted that that was in a different age of the internet, too).

But let's say that they had done exactly what they're doing now: giving creators a pass to play and record the game for 6 hours, then show it, as long as they're not showing major story content. Explained the Conclave, the demon rifts, and that there's this guy named Corypheus. Even with all of that, the game still would catch people utterly by surprise.

How do I know? I just got here. I just played Inquisition, 10 years post-release. I joined the community so late that when I went to look at texture mods, I saw one for Solas with the word "Fen'harel" right in the name of the mod.

And I had a GREAT time. There was SO much that surprised me, even so!

If we compare this current content push to Inquisition? My first time playing Inquisition, the first 6 hours got me like....... 10% into the Hinterlands. Yes, Veilguard is linear by comparison. But let's all remember how many hours it takes to get to Skyhold even if you're running through the story at full speed with a mod to increase XP.

Let alone all that happens at Skyhold. Let alone Adamant, or Halamshiral, or the Temple of Mythal. Jaws of Hakkon. Trespasser. All the things that made Inquisition magical to me.

I have faith that the way they're teasing so much now means that there's so, so much more to come. And I, for one, can't wait to see what Veilguard's equivalents for all those magical moments are.

am i crazy or has very little of what bioware has revealed so far been actual "spoilers" and not just very typical game marketing to get people interested in the story... like i get wanting to go in blind of course but then you shouldnt be watching this marketing stuff to start with lol

[nadas-dirthalen]

I Saw Solas's Origin in an Achievement Icon and It Opened My Eyes on 15 Years of Lore

— PART THREE: if you haven't read previous parts, do it now! —

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Welcome, friends and travelers! I wanted to get some thoughts recorded before Veilguard's release so I could see if I am right about an absolute BOATLOAD of theories I have.

In short: I saw the achievement list when it was released. I have seen the backstory hints for Solas included in said list. AND MY MIND WAS BLOWN.

You have been warned: THIS COLLECTION OF THEORIES INCLUDES SPOILERS FOR EVERY DRAGON AGE GAME AND ALL PROMOTIONAL MATERIAL UP TO AND INCLUDING OCTOBER 18, 2024.

Come sit down with me. Make a nice cup of tea (and hide it from Solas). We've got a lot of unpacking to do.

(this photo isn't the spoiler, I just like it.)

Today's Discussion:

So far, we've covered a few things. We know Solas was "born" from (or manifested from) a branch of raw lyrium while he was still connected to a Titan. We know there were hints toward this from across all three previous games, plus a lot of external media. We know his "birth" was initiated/instigated by Mythal.

We also know that there are quite a lot of hints about memory and forgetting across what we've covered so far, from Cole's dialogue to old elvhen lullabies.

But from here, we must ask ourselves: What ARE the Forgotten Ones? And if Solas really IS Titan-born, what does that say about the rest of everything we know about the world of Thedas and its magic?

Why the Titans are the Forgotten Ones

Fen'Harel Walked Between Both Clans of Gods

The Abyss and the Fade

Lyrium: Titans' Blood, Emerald Waters of the Fade

What IS a Spirit, Then?

Solas's Magic: What Was He Born With?

Solas and Petrification

Solas and "Blood" Magic // The Red Lyrium Idol

What Did Solas Absorb at the End of DA:I?

Why the Titans are the Forgotten Ones

Okay. This, I admit, could have been its own post. There is a LOT to cover with just this topic. I was in the midst of outlining such a post when one of my favourite Dragon Age theorycrafters (girltriesgames) came out with this video, which summarizes every point I'd gave gone into at length. Go watch it, if you want the full deep-dive!

For now, I will summarize some of the video's points:

There were two clans of gods, according to Merrill. The first was the Evanuris, and the Forgotten Gods were the second.

Fen'Harel walked among both clans without fear, and both believed he was one of them.

The Forgotten Ones have been "sealed" in the Abyss, which we know is the deep underground from the Descent DLC and other sources such as the Anvil of the Void.

The Forgotten Ones are cited by Merrill and the World of Thedas books as being at war with the Evanuris, namely Mythal and Elgar'nan being at war with four Forgotten Ones; in the Trespasser DLC, it mentions that the Titans were at war with the Evanuris, and slain by Mythal and Elgar'nan.

The Hissing Wastes features codices from ancient dwarves who fled to the surface to escape a war that was ultimately... forgotten, featuring dragons being used as weapons that slaughtered their kin. Obviously an above-ground enemy!

There are countless mentions of the word "Forgotten" around the Titans and dwarves. The Titans have been forgotten. They do not exist in the Memories of Orzammar. The sleeping Titans have forgotten how to wake up.

Cole makes many mentions of forgotten songs in relation to the sleeping Titans and also to the dwarves. Curiously, he even ties these concepts to the Templars, who employ the same magic (according to Cole).

Fen'Harel Walked Between Both Clans of Gods

Once I knew that Solas is made from lyrium and that the Titans are the Forgotten Ones, everything clicked into place for me. The legends say that Fen'Harel walked between both "clans" of gods because each one believed him to be one of their own. That sentence made less sense to me before, because I wondered: how does an elf fool an entire other clan of gods into believing he belongs to them?

Understanding that the Titans are the Forgotten Ones, famously the clan of gods that the Evanuris (namely Mythal and Elgar'nan) warred with... well, it makes sense now, doesn't it? Solas was able to walk between both clans of gods because he DOES have roots in both. Solas is crafted FROM a Titan. Solas BECAME an Evanuris. The Titan would recognize him as one of its own; the Evanuris accept him as one of their own.

This is backed up even further by a piece of Solas's dialogue in The Threat Remains.

"I have journeyed deep into the Fade in ancient ruins and battlefields to see the dreams of lost civilizations. I’ve watched as hosts of spirits clash to reenact the bloody past of ancient wars both famous and forgotten."

The Titans' existence was struck from Orzammar's Memories. Cole makes endless mentions of forgotten songs, old songs. Beings that are sleeping and don't remember how to wake up. Beings that have forgotten even themselves. Solas refers to dwarves as the severed arm of a once mighty hero.

"Wars both famous and forgotten," therefore, might refer to a war that was famous among the ancient elvhen, but forgotten by the rest of the world. One side takes pride in the mining of lyrium from slain titans. The other is doomed never to know what was lost.

But the question remains: When Solas created the Veil to imprison the Evanuris, what exactly happened to the Titans?

The Abyss and the Fade

To truly understand what happened to the Titans, we must first understand what, exactly, the Veil was making a divide between. We know much of what happened to the Fade: that Solas says it was once a state of nature like the wind, flowing through everything. That now it is mutable and unpredictable, with little in the way of permanence in anything. That it takes the shape of the thoughts and memories of those within it. That magic functions unpredictably within it.

But what about what that meant for the Titans? What happened to them with this split? And, more importantly, what was the Fade in relation to them?

Let's start with what we know about the Titans' domain. Frequently called the Abyss or the Void, the realm of the Titans is below the surface. Yet, in much elvhen literature found in Trespasser, their domain is referred to as the Earth.

I believe, based on the context of those codices, that the Earth and the Abyss are not the same. The Abyss refers to the caverns in the deep underground. The Earth, specifically, is the Titans who live within the Abyss. Earth, in the ancient elvhen, pre-Veil context, may refer to the Titans' bodies—lyrium—while "Pillars of the Earth" refers to the Titans as sentient beings. The Song to Elgar'nan talks about wanting victory over the Earth, capital 'E.'

Though the Chant of Light describes the Void as more a state of being, the ancient elvhen describe it as Andruil's old hunting grounds.

One day Andruil grew tired of hunting mortal men and beasts. She began stalking the Forgotten Ones, wicked things that thrive in the abyss. Yet even a god should not linger there, and each time she entered the Void, Andruil suffered longer and longer periods of madness after returning. Andruil put on armor made of the Void, and all forgot her true face. She made weapons of darkness, and plague ate her lands. She howled things meant to be forgotten, and the other gods became fearful Andruil would hunt them in turn.

The time of Andruil using the Void as her hunting grounds predates the Veil. Overall, we already know much of what this codex implies about the Void: that it is dark, underground, and that there is reason we know of that would send Andruil back with madness (the abundance of raw lyrium and the fact that the Evanuris are mages, plus Andruil's lyrium armor).

What I want to focus on is that the Forgotten Ones were thriving in the Abyss before the Veil went up. They were alive and, ostensibly, able to fight back. They had access to their will and to their consciousness.

That consciousness seems to have disappeared with the creation of the Veil. Let me rephrase.

The Titans lost access to their consciousness with the creation of the Veil. At the same time. And what did the Veil do? What is the SOLE thing it did?

Separated the Fade from the waking world.

A collection of facts, when taken together, lead me to my conclusion about the relationship between the Abyss, the Fade, and the Titans.

The Forgotten Ones (Titans) live in the Abyss

They were conscious and "thriving" before the Veil went up

Cole remarks that they have "forgotten" how to wake up in the time since

No one has memory of the Titans, not even the dwarves

Lyrium is the blood of the Titans

and lyrium grows in the Fade.

Lyrium: Titans' Blood, and the Emerald Waters of the Fade

I think a lot of us (me included) have been thinking about the Fade all wrong. I think a lot of people consider the Fade to be this Other Thing™ that was once a part of the world, and is now separate. Now, I believe differently. I think that the Fade and the Titans were once two pieces of one whole, and creating the Veil effectively sundered all Titans' consciousness from their bodies.

In short: I think the Fade is the Titans' missing consciousness.

That's why I think it is very important not just that Lyrium exists in the Fade, but that it grows there. It implies that the Fade is still alive, just like the Titans are still alive, but asleep.

When Solas says, "I seek... regeneration" in Vows & Vengeance, I think this is what he means: reconnecting these two sundered pieces.

We've always thought as the Fade as the realm of spirits. Those characters who contemplate the Veil being torn down immediately think about how many spirits and demons that might unleash upon Thedas.

But I must ask: If the Fade is the consciousness of sundered Titans, where did the first spirits come from, before the creation of the Veil? What relation could Titans have with spirits?

What IS a Spirit, Then?

I'm sure that I am not alone when I say that my original guess for Solas's origin story is that he was a spirit that took mortal, corporeal shape. We've all heard Cole say, "He did not want a body, but she asked him to come." We all know that the Dread Wolf's six eyes greatly resemble a Pride demon, and we have seen that Solas' Manifestation achievement icon features those same six eyes.

If you're like me, you might've seen that and wondered how exactly this is all related. How can Solas be a spirit of Wisdom turned to Pride if he came from a Titan?

I'm here to tell you: I think those are the same thing.

And the Chant of Light agrees with me.

Here lies the abyss, the well of all souls. From these emerald waters doth life begin anew. Come to me, child, and I shall embrace you. In my arms lies Eternity. —Andraste 14:11

Many believe that the well of sorrows and the waters of the Fade must have elemental associations with, well... water. But I'd like to put forth a different interpretation.

Lyrium exists in liquid form, once refined. The Bastion of the Pure in the Descent DLC has a literal underground sea. We know that lyrium is the Titans' blood, growing both in the Abyss and the Fade. We also know that the Fade, domain of spirits, is likely the Titans' sundered consciousness.

The "well of all souls," then, is the same as the "emerald waters." Both of them refer not to water, not to oceans, but to lyrium.

I think every spirit on Thedas, not just the dwarves, came from the Titans originally.

To test the validity of my idea, I then asked myself: what do we know of spirits and their nature?

We know that spirits all boil down to one singular quality: Wisdom, Compassion, Purpose, Love, Justice, etc etc etc.

We know that those qualities can change back and forth from "virtuous" to "demonic" depending on the spirit's own feelings and reactions to the world. The trauma of crossing the Veil or being bound can force Wisdom to become Pride (Solas's personal quest) or Compassion to Rage (Down Among the Dead Men from Tevinter Nights).

Not all spirits are named for "virtues" or "sins." For instance, there are Hunger demons, and hunger is not a sin.

Spirits can be killed outright. When that happens, they may reform, but they are never quite the same when they coalesce again. There are also "ancient spirits" mentioned throughout the franchise, which tells me that not all spirits are the same age. They were not all created at the same time.

Many spirits are mere wisps, without one of those one-word qualities. They must gain power before they take such a shape.

To me, that sounds a lot like how thoughts work.

Our singular thoughts could also be boiled down to singular qualities, if framed in a certain way. For instance, my current craving for food is very much a Hunger thought. My constant joy in reading World of Thedas stems from Curiosity. Terrible traffic conditions inspire fleeting Rage, which changes when I remember my Compassion for other drivers who might be erratic because they're going through an emergency or something traumatic.

People don't remember every single thought they have. The ones that stick with us over time? They remain with us because they are powerful. Stronger memories stick around longer; the rest fade away or become shapeless until we try really hard to remember them again.

But when we do remember things we have forgotten? We never remember them exactly the same, do we? If I remember I thought I had as a child, I have to remember it with the context of my current 30-year-old self. I will never experience the thought exactly as my 5-year-old self did.

As long as I have access to my own consciousness, I will constantly produce new thoughts and memories.

Therefore?

Specifically, I think that all spirits on Thedas are the thoughts of Titans, once either held in lyrium or free to drift through the Fade before the Veil existed. Those spirits may then manifest into a corporeal shape, like Cole does, if they have enough power.

And Solas? Solas is one such thought-spirit, who used to be held in lyrium, who Mythal convinced (or coerced) to take shape.

Which explains a great deal about every type of magic we see him use.

Solas's Magic: What Was He Born With?

Oh, Solas, you beautiful enigma. For so long, we thought of you as an ordinary mage. Then, with the big Fen'Harel reveal and the way you began petrifying people in Trespasser, we thought you were something else.

Mages draw their power from the Fade. It looks like the dwarven magic we're seeing (from Harding, from Valta, from Sandal) draws its power from the Stone, in addition to manipulating it. So what gives? How is Solas able to pull from both schools of magic? Is he a mage? Is he kin with the dwarves?

Now, with all the knowledge we've gained through one singular achievement icon jpeg, I understand: you are both, and you are neither.

We must remember that all ancient elvhen are born in a pre-Veil era. With the knowledge we have, that means an era when the Titans were not sundered from their thoughts, and all magic in the world was one thing. If all spirits are the thoughts of Titans made manifest (either as living concepts or as corporeal beings) and the Fade is just one part of Titans' whole existence, then a world without the Veil is a world where we don't need to think of those magics as two separate things.

Rather, they are both magic, but opposing schools of the same magic. When we think of the four elements here in OUR world, we think of earth and air as opposites—but in a lot of media, magic users have access to both. Often, they are weak to each other, one cancelling out the other.

We see this laid out more clearly in this codex from the Vir Dirthara.

"The unchanging world is delicate: spells of power invite disaster and annihilation. The unchanging world is stubborn: the pull of the earth fiercely resists making fire run like water or stone rise like mist. The unchanging world rings with its own harmony. Listen with fearless hearts, and great works will unfold."

This codex is actively encouraging the magic users of ancient elvhen (AKA, all people from that time) to listen with fearless hearts to the "unchanging world" to exert will over the "pull of the earth." They're not saying to avoid the Titans, or to dominate them with an abundance of their own (Fade) magic. By tapping into the Titans' rhythm, even the magic of the Fade is embellished. Made stronger.

To be alive in that time is to be able to wield both magics interchangeably—but just like Aang in Avatar: the Last Airbender, the pull of the earth is a notoriously difficult thing for "air" (Fade) magic-users to grasp, and vice versa.

(A tiny aside: I believe these discoveries about spirits and magic teach us the distinction between elven and elvhen. The latter translates to "spirit-soul," loosely—the spirits that came out of the Titans. I believe elven refers to the corporeal descendants of those elvhen that sexually reproduced.)

Solas and Petrification

Many of us speculated for a long, long time that Solas's ability to petrify people—an ability associated with Sandal and Harding—was something he took from a dwarven or Titan-aligned source. People speculated that Urthemiel, the archdemon, must be somehow connected to the magic of the Stone.

I have a different theory: Solas has always had this capability, but the power he absorbed from Mythal is what has allowed him to once again perform the magic of the Stone from whence he came.

Maybe utilizing both magics to such a powerful degree (remember his Mind Blast from Trespasser?) requires that a mage be more powerful than most, carrying two "sects" of magic within them and using both in such a great and terrible capacity (like how the Avatar is more powerful than other benders, able to carry multiple elements because of bonding with the spirit of Raava, to continue with my previous example).

Solas and "Blood" Magic // The Red Lyrium Idol

I'll preface this by saying: no, I have no idea why Solas has changed his tune about blood magic in DA:tV. I hope to find out in five days!

I do want to suggest that, for Solas, blood magic might mean something different than it does for everyone else. Solas's blood, while he has taken a corporeal shape almost identical to any other elven person, may not be the same chemical make as the blood of mortals. That might explain why he has not experimented with it much during the time of Inquisition, and might explain why he does not want to use his own blood in DA:tV.

Instead, his blood might be closer to lyrium than we expected. And the red lyrium idol might be HIS idol.

Some of you might remember that way back in part 1, I noted that a hint for Solas's origin from previous games and external media is that, in Tevinter Nights, the Dread Wolf refers to the red lyrium idol as "my idol" before slaying the Mortalitasi trying to perform a blood magic ritual with it. It confused me, for a long time, why the Dread Wolf (the big wolf form, not necessarily one with Solas) would refer to the idol as "my idol" before actually retrieving it to keep. The explanation seems simple: it was his first.

This makes me wonder, given everything we know, if the idol first belonged to the Dread Wolf because it is made from the Dread Wolf's blood. Since the Dread Wolf is a piece of a Titan, that would make its blood likely at least related to lyrium, right?

Many have also speculated that Solas's ritual dagger, which gets passed on to Rook, is made from a purified/reforged red lyrium idol. Given the blood connection between Rook and Solas, it makes sense to me that if the dagger is indeed made from the blood of the Dread Wolf (and/or Solas), that is why Rook has access to its abilities.

What Did Solas Absorb at the End of DA:I?

I cannot for the life of me find a well-cropped image, but this post on Reddit talks about a designer note from the post-credits scene of DA:I between Solas and Flemeth. Namely that Solas does not take Mythal's soul when he absorbs power from her. Before he absorbs that power, Mythal passes her soul on to Morrigan.

While David Gaider had previously advised fans to not necessarily take this as canon, it seems to be proving true in Morrigan's design change, featuring Flemeth's crown.

That means there are two things Solas may have still absorbed from Mythal, since her soul was already "spoken for."

Raw power

The soul of Urthemiel, the archdragon slain in Origins. This is true in every world state with Kieran, but I would wager that Urthemiel's soul belongs with Mythal in every world state, since Flemeth said she had an "appointment to keep" in the prologue of DA2, which is why she did not travel with Hawke. My guess is she went to Denerim, poking at the remains of the slain archdemon until, 10 years later in Inquisition, she was in possession of Urthemiel's soul no matter what.

We know, however, that archdemons are sundered pieces of the Evanuris. We've been able to suspect this since Inquisition, where we see Corypheus's archdemon is in possession of a piece of his soul and is therefore the secret to his immortality.

I don't think either of this gave Solas access to any new spells. Rather, I think either one (or both!) might have granted him the power necessary to access spells he already knows from both Fade magic and Stone magic.

However, I'd like to touch on just one thing before this post concludes.

I believe that Urthemiel is June's archdemon. The Chant of Light references an Architect of Beauty, just as it references Corypheus, the Conductor of Silence. These are high priests of the so-called "Old Gods," which were revealed as archdemons when Dumat appeared during the First Blight. Corypheus was the high priest of Dumat, the old god of Silence.

I believe the word Architect being used as the title for the high priest of Urthemiel is indicative of the Evanuris that Urthemiel belongs to. There is one Evanuris known for craftsmanship: June, who we know nothing about.

The reason I mention this is that, if nothing else, June's abilities may have allowed Solas to "purify" and shape the red lyrium idol into his ritual dagger that we see in Veilguard.

In conclusion: I believe Solas has always had access to the Stone, but it would certainly be interesting to see if each Evanuris has their own suite of magical abilities, potentially due to the Titan from which some of them originated (more on THAT in a later post, stay tuned!).

If you read this far, THANK YOU, as always! The collective hype of everyone reading and sharing these is making me all the more excited for Veilguard.

Keep an eye out for the next instalment in this series: What the Chant of Light teaches us about Solas, Mythal, and the Evanuris at large.

[felassan]

i havent been able to keep up with all the veilguard news, but i was hoping you might know if theres been any word on a potential comeback for Sandal Feddic?

hello! ◕‿◕

this post is just listing references to him in interviews/marketing etc, not going into theorycrafting. ◕‿◕

around 2012 in an interview somewhere a writer mentioned a concern that they had around how the portrayal of Sandal could be insensitive/uncomfortable.

around 2 years ago there was an article:

‘Sandal Probably Isn’t In Dragon Age 4′ At least not with his usual voice actor, Yuri Lowenthal. Speaking to USA Today, voice actor Yuri Lowenthal revealed that has not been asked to return for the fourth game. “I don’t think I’m speaking out of turn, but as far as I know there’s no Sandal in Dragon Age 4. If there is then it wasn’t played by me because I would have loved to have come back.” The only silver lining for fans is that Lowenthal would love to play the quirky character again. “100%, I love that little guy. He could have just been a terrible joke, and he wasn’t. They gave him some turns that nobody saw coming. He’s a right badass.” [source]

that was 2 years ago however, and things can change. as we know from Morrigan/Claudia Black, it's possible for this kind of comment to be made prior to a studio asking an actor to reprise a role. NDAs and changing voice actors are also a thing.

about a year ago Mark Darrah said this, on why he doesn't directly appear in DA:I -

[on Sandal] “I told the team if you put him in DA:I you gotta put him in everything because he basically then becomes a central figure of the franchise. So they gave him a rest. So you can blame me for him not being in DA:I” [source]

I don't remember seeing any other direct/specific Sandal mentions in promo/marketing type material one way or the other in more recent times.

[surelyspacejunk]

Messmer & Melina Speculation

After playing the DLC, I'm starting to wonder if both Messmer and Melina were sired by Marika and two other gods who weren't Radagon. A few DLC spoilers and big speculations under the cut:

If we are to take the butterfly theories to heart, the introduction of a the black pyrefly in the DLC would support that there are four siblings born from a union of gods. Messmer's Kindling also states that he has a sister who also bore visions of fire; supporting that they are all siblings.

Unlike the twins though, Messmer and Melina seem to have been completely glossed over in the Lands Between.

I'm guessing it's because they both have traits that simply could not have let them exist within the Golden Order; these traits being their affinity towards fire and traits of The Gelmir Serpent (Messmer) and the Gloam-Eyed Queen (Melina.)

Marika/Radagon has already been seen settling disputes through unions with the Carians. Even the Golden Order created a union with the dragons when they realized they could not defeat them. Could Marika have started the pattern of creating truces and betrayal before the creation of the Golden Order? The Hornsent Grandam calls Marika a strumpet, and while she could just be slutshaming Marika, could there be some implication that Marika had relations that were looked down upon?

When you play the DLC, you learn that Messmer is still devoted to Marika, while the latter seems to have abandoned him while being the one responsible for his bloody campaign. While it's obvious to see why the Hornsent despise him, most accounts show that he commanded great loyalty from his men and had genuine friendships with Gaius and Radahn. All this makes me believe that Marika got rid of two birds with one stone, by sending her Messmer who could have never found a place in her order away to do her dirty work of enacting her revenge and solidifying her rule.

As for Melina, the circumstances of her birth seem a little shaky and I don't really have a timeline for when she could have come to existence. That said, her color scheme in the Frenzy ending, the color of her eyes and her quest to deliver destined death seem to tie her to the Gloam-Eyed Queen. The butterflies and Marika/Radagon being able to sire her either way makes it seem that this might not be too crazy but idk, im extremely sleepy now from staying up too late playing this game and theorycrafting.

Anyways those are just some thoughts from a sleepdrunk fan, what do you guys think?

[askdacast]

Life Series SMP/Eyes and Ears AU Thematic Discussion + Theorycrafting (pt. 1)

WARNING: Extremely long post

Kachow what’s poppin fellas, I’m back at it again talking about boomer block Youtubers and their surprisingly in-depth improv series. Now that the Life Series’ 5th season has finally concluded, I’m back on the lore train and poor Scar is left to suffer the consequences, and Martyn’s concluded yet another lore stream, I decided to compile a long master post of lore notes and theories about what we have so far.

Obviously all the ‘lore’ of the Life Series is purely unofficial; Grian has not approved any of it as being actually official/set in stone for what he intended the series to be. Most of it has been us in the crazy fandom extrapolating their really good storytelling, and also “semi-canonized” by Martyn in what he calls the Eyes and Ears AU (and this post assumes you are familiar with it). As someone who’s been a fan since the beginning way back in 3rd Life, I’ve pretty much hopped on the lore train since the beginning as well (if casually) and enjoying all the different extrapolations/analysis/angst written around the players. Rather than just theorizing lore details in a vacuum, however, I’ve always liked imagining the lore based around the reoccurring themes, symbolism and arcs we’ve seen across the series. I’d been bouncing my various thoughts and theories around these themes for a while, and finally I decided to compile my notes together.

This post is basically my imagining what the Life Series/Eyes and Ears AU story is “about,” as if it were a fleshed-out, long-running and story-driven tv show. Initially this post started as simply a gigantic “Eyes and Ears Theory,” me trying to sus out my own theories/ideas of what the Life Series’ mysteries were based on Martyn’s lore. However, considering that Martyn is ALSO writing the lore on the fly, and I have some details I would interpret differently or change, this ended up less a ‘theory’ and more ‘me writing an entire AU/interpretation of the Life Series as a whole.’ My intention is NOT to ‘correct’ Martyn’s lore, nor to claim my theory as the ‘right’ interpretation; rather, this is my personal interpretation of what the Life Series story is about, based on information shown in the original SMP and in Martyn’s AU.

One last disclaimer: I am ONLY drawing on lore details from the Life Series, Martyn’s lore streams, and Minecraft EVO, and also references to the iRL creators. I am not drawing on any story from other SMPs such as Pirates or Empires; there may be some Hermitcraft references here and there.

This is going to be very long, and a multi-parter, because I can’t summarize to save my life. And I promise I’ll come up with a proper name for my series of posts another time. If you’ve stuck around to read, I thank you.

Part 1: The Overall Plot + Understanding the Watchers

Recap of official lore details

Although Martyn hasn’t given specific details on the Watcher + Listener species (he hasn’t come up with a name yet), we know the following details for sure (from EVO, lore streams etc.)

Watchers + Listeners + The Council are all deity-like beings of the same species, and they all consume human emotions

The Council are the upper ranks/possibly leaders, whereas the Watchers + Listeners are separate factions

The Watchers are at LEAST two high-ranking members of the species (the two dots being outcast from the wider circle, as is their logo)

The Watchers were behind Minecraft EVO, where they gave all the players tasks (much like Secret Life) and eventually ending in them fighting the Ender Dragon separately

While the Watchers may not have been evil in EVO, they certainly became so AFTER, when they began to crave more negative human emotions, viewing them as “tasty” (Martyn’s words), s p i c y

They first kidnapped Grian at the end of EVO season 1, turning him into a Watcher to possibly have him join their ranks, but he’s gone rogue after realizing what their plans for the Life Series were, and plans to rescue his friends from them

The Life Series was the Watchers’ ploy to trap the players in an infinite death game where they betray and cause each other pain, all to harvest their negative emotions. Grian, in defiance to this, takes control as the ‘game master’ to make the whole thing…well, a game, so that his friends can enjoy, have fun and ease their anguish. In Martyn’s words, this is like “pouring ketchup all over the Watchers’ sundae.”

The Listeners (EVO season 2) are an opposing faction to the Watchers who disagree with their methods, although why is unknown. They’ve attempted to contact some players (e.g. Jimmy) before back in EVO in order to oppose the Watchers, but it’s not known how successful they were. They’ve also tried to swap in players in the Life Series before (e.g. subbing Lizzie and Gem for Pearl and Cleo in Lim. Life) in order to sneak them in and try to subvert the game. The Watchers kidnapping Gem for Secret Life is partially in retaliation to the Listeners. The Listeners may not be good and may have nefarious intentions also, it is as yet still unknown.

There’s potentially a third faction, the Speakers, but very little is known about them and Martyn doesn’t want to elaborate on them yet.

Okay, but what are the Watchers even after?

"Accept your fate."

From here on out is my real conjecturing/theorizing. The main question on my mind has been why are the Watchers doing what they’re doing? Obviously Martyn has confirmed that they are malicious deities who find negative human emotions tasty, but this raises further questions. Why exactly do they desire such emotions, or need them to survive (if they do, anyway)? Why do they favour negativity, when the other members of their species consume a wide range of emotions? They were confirmed to be outcast in some way from the other factions for this ploy, so what does that say about them then?

The whole species fundamentally do not understand human emotions (or perhaps do not even possess them)

This seems to me the most logical conclusion. These are powerful deities who can create miniature worlds/dimensions, life, and time to an extent (death loop). They should theoretically be self-sufficient, so I doubt that their consumption of human emotion is for survivability reasons (i.e. I don’t think Watchers will literally die if they don’t consume emotions, the same way humans die without food). What seems more likely is that human emotions bring them some benefit to their intelligence or power that they’d otherwise be quite non-functional without. (Think like the demons in The Promised Neverland, who regress to feral natures/lack of sapience if they don’t eat humans)

The Watchers’ powers and their lab-rat experimentation on the players gives a huge vibe of not being able to understand human emotions in an involved way, but only from a distance. They know methodically things like murder and betrayal cause panic and anguish, so they enforce these experiences through the game, mechanics like the Boogeyman, the Secret Tasks etc. But they don’t really know internally why these emotions come about the way humans do. Being above time, they probably don’t understand why the funny small animals have so much attachment to their transitory experiences and memories (more on this later).

world's angriest pumpkin

The Watchers are Losers, Actually

Going further, don’t you think the Watchers have a very misanthropic mindset all around? “Anguish and panic are s p i c y.” They conversely have a complete disgust for positive emotions, and can’t stand Grian making things fun for everybody. It almost feels like they have the mindset that only things like hatred and fear are exciting, bringing motivation and life to the humans, whereas things like happiness and fun are ‘useless’ because they don’t bring about the same results. Let’s also not forget their name – Watchers – and that Martyn’s confirmed them to be symbolically based off us, the audience. It’s almost like a commentary of the worst of the entertainment industry, of an audience who crave watching anything and everything to satisfy their own desires, even at the expense of the privacy and safety of the entertainer. Given the current state of the internet and social media, I don’t think I need to elaborate how awful things can get.

In other words, I believe the main motivation the Watchers are eating humans emotions is because they WANT to understand and ‘take into themselves’ such emotions. I don’t think they’re totally emotionless – Martyn does portray them with moments of glee and anger. But their understanding of emotions is superficial (self-centered, if you will) at best. As deities with no needs, being above time, they have nothing to be afraid of and nothing to feel sad or anguished over. It’s a boring, dull and empty existence. And that’s precisely why they’ve set up the Life Series game: by kidnapping a few humans and putting them through the artificially constructed wringer of panic and betrayal, they think they can create a human farm of such rich, complex and exciting emotions, all for themselves to enjoy at their own pleasure and fill the void they have.

(Listeners’ side note: If all that is the philosophy of the Watchers, it’s probably not difficult to see how/why the Listeners oppose them. The Listeners likely disagree that negative emotions are the most optimal state of humans, and unlike the Watchers do not think human suffering is just tasty popcorn one can eat at one’s pleasure. Their name – Listeners – implies they’re a more sympathetic faction, as in they listen to one’s troubles and heart rather than take delight in suffering at a superficial level. But if they are the same species, it’s very likely they have the same lack of instinctive understanding of human emotions that the Watchers do, and this could cause…problems.)

Why turn Grian?

All this is also why I believe the Watchers kidnapped Grian + turned him into a Watcher in the first place. Firstly, if they were going to concoct their plan to trap humans, they needed a collaborator from the humans in the first place. Secondly, and most importantly, this collaborator was going to be their only direct source of how human emotions work/feel like, and therefore what were the most optimal conditions needed to ensure their death game would generate the most pain and anguish. They picked Grian because he’s always the ‘leader’ of the SMP players, the person gathering and organizing everyone, so logically, he is the most ‘representative’ of the humans, and the one with the greatest ability to control them.

Of course, it’s also true that Grian was a little $#@% throughout EVO and actively rebelled against the Watchers’ tasks, so making him their collaborator might seem strange. Ignoring the meta reason that the ending was written to explain Grian’s exit from the series. But I figured in this case, they considered the benefits more than the costs. Grian’s chaotic nature is not unlike the Watchers’, considering how much he loves causing pranks and trouble to others. So, as a huge oversight, they think Grian is just like them: he loves to see people suffer, so they think. Additionally, the Watchers are desperate to understand how Grian gets his fellow humans to follow him and do what he asks with little effort. You’ll notice the Watchers have very direct, authoritative ways of trying to wrest control (e.g. the tasks, “do this or you fail”), and they get very petty and upset when people rebel against them (re: Scott’s refusal to be the Boogeyman, their motto is a very demanding “OUR WILL BE DONE.”) They see Grian’s charisma as yet another aspect of human emotions they fail to understand and thus WANT to possess for themselves.

Pictured above: The Watchers, coping and seething

Of course as we know, the Watchers believing Grian would help them is a major oversight. Becoming a god doesn’t just fundamentally change who Grian is, and he definitely doesn’t want to consign his friends to an infinite death loop of suffering. That being said, I don’t think Grianhas truly gone ‘rogue’ so much as taken as much advantage as possible of his ‘deal’ with the Watchers. We can guess the Watchers promised to him some kind of control/leadership over his friends’ circumstances as long as he worked for them, which led to them giving him the keys to the Life Series. In other words, so long as he fulfils their requirements of things being a death game that will generate ‘food’ for them, and lets them revive everyone each loop, he gets to decide how the games go.

And we know exactly what Grian’s done with this: he created the green-yellow-red lives system, he creates a fun gimmick each season, he inserts himself into the game as a player, all to bring out the best and most creative side of his friends rather than the worst. The Boogeyman probably is the only gimmick the Watchers added on their own initiative (re: Martyn’s POV in Last Life) in order to make things more spicy. Probably Grian’s conversation with the Watchers each time goes, “hey, I got an idea on how to bring out the most creative ways for everyone to cause pain in each other, [comes up with some bullcrap justification for the game’s fun mechanics].” I like to think the Watchers were going to make the death games even more vicious, cruel and competitive, but because of Grian’s wrangling he’s convinced them that a slow burn from joy to horror creates better results, and they tolerate it as long as they see him useful.

Memories and Emotions

There is also one BIG detail of the Watchers’ plan I’d like to mention: Martyn claims that the Watchers do NOT erase the players’ memories. At the end of each season, they consume everyone’s emotions so that there’s no more angst/ill will towards each other, and they start each season afresh. The players remember what’s happened in past seasons, but they don’t continue to hold the pain and negative feelings they had towards each other.

I don’t buy this, for numerous reasons.

For one, Martyn has confirmed the Watchers ARE capable of removing people’s memories. The one memory they have outright altered was the ex-EVO players’ (Martyn, Jimmy, BigB etc.) memory of what happened to Grian: they don’t remember that Grian was taken to be turned into a Watcher, and instead remember it as him either going missing or dying after the Ender Dragon fight. All this presumably to not give away the Watchers’ schemes and to ensure they still listen to Grian as if nothing ever happened.

More importantly, however, memories are vital to humanity’s emotional experience and mental health. I am not an expert by any means, but there are studies showing how people with amnesia, PTSD or other conditions affecting memories have flashbacks/emotional reactions to trauma they don’t remember consciously. The Watchers have (supposedly) done something far more simplistic yet fantastic by just eating up everybody’s emotions. All this, even though they see humans as emotion factories, constantly able to generate emotions just by existing, by their ability to draw and create meaning through emotional experiences, and by creating memories – the clearest embodiment of a mortal’s attachment to time (which if you remember, I believe the Watchers have no concept of).

You cannot just tell a human to stop feelingcompletely (under normal circumstances anyway), but especially not if they remember something very very traumatic.

Besides, there ARE clear instances when some of the players remember the events of past seasons and are STILL not over them! Impulse and Tango still being bitter/distrustful after Bdubs betrayed each of them separately, Cleo distrusting BigB for the same reason, Scott referencing Flower Husbands a lot, Pearl feeling betrayed by Cleo/Scott when they supposedly broke up the Gaslight/Gatekeep/Girlboss trio at the start of DL, Bdubs’ “I wanna be your favorite son” in Secret Life, the list goes on. Note that I’ve only listed negative/bittersweet instances; there are plenty more cases of the players remembering past seasons and alliances positively which the Watchers may have ignored. The point is, if the Watchers truly consumed everyone’s emotions to the point of a clean slate, they haven’t exactly been thorough. Nor do I think it’s very conducive for them either – don’t they want players to have enduring, unending, unresolved pain, the sweetest of all (to them)?

No, I think the Watchers HAVE been erasing/suppressing the players’ memories – they’ve just been very selective which ones. Martyn’s said that the Watchers do not care what families or connections they separate so long as they get the people they want and the plans they want. I’m going to assume the players in my theory/the Eyes and Ears AU are exactly the same as their CC counterparts. In other words: they’ve stolen Grian away from his wife. They stole Martyn away from his and his daughter. Ditto with Skizz, Impulse, Tango etc. They stole Scar away from his family. Joel and Lizzie are the only couple they didn’t separate, perhaps because they needed both for their plans, and also so they can inflict the most torture on them by ripping them away from each other, over and over again. And in order to ensure the complete submissiveness of the players to the game, the Watchers have taken away their memories of their past lives, their families, basically anyone who isn’t a fellow player in the game. The Watchers don’t erase the memories of bonds between seasons, because it’s a pain to have to teach the humans how to play all over again, but they erase any memories they find disadvantageous to keeping the game running.

They might even go one step further: while they haven’t erased the players’ memories of who each other are (so as to not cause confusion), they do try to suppress important memories. Things like how they met, the times they confided in each other after a bad day, cried on each other’s shoulder, laughed in each other’s successes, the times they hung out with each other’s families. Imagine the different alliances constantly gravitating to each other, but never being able to remember why they care about each other so much. Imagine Bdubs’ “Come on, you know you and I go way back!” when trying to justify taking Cleo’s stuff, and Cleo laughs back, even though she can’t quite remember what exactly Bdubs has done to warrant that. Imagine Joel or Lizzie trying to remember why they loved each other so much.

They fight and kill some of their friends, and protect others, because…because why again? It’s for survival value, surely, so the Watchers whisper. It’s because the strong must congregate with the strong and leave the weak to die, surely. It’s because Martyn’s always been a loner, and always will be, and should remain so. So they tell him. So they whisper, this is a deathmatch for a reason.

Grian’s Fundamental Rebellion

I think all this is the real reason Grian is rebelling against the Watchers. The most immediate reason is obvious: he wants to free his friends from this death loop. But the deeper reason as to why he’s rebelled is that the Watchers are torturing and robbing his friends of their humanity. They’re taking a tight-knit group of friends who love and would do anything for each other, and turning them against each other in a cruel and unescapable death game. On TOP of this, the Watchers have constantly messed with their heads in order to make them obedient and submissive to their schemes and the worst of their human nature, trapping them in fear, pettiness and paranoia. Of course Grian is upset. Of course he wants to save them from this fate. It’s an insult to who he knows these people to be.

This all leaves Grian in a pretty precarious position. While outwardly the Watchers want to make him a lackey as the “game master”, both he and they know he really wants to save his friends (they probably see it as their ‘cattle’ showing a bit of resistance, which once again they need to suppress). And while on one hand he’s making the games fun to ease his friends’ pain and bring the best out of them, this is just a hotfix rather than a real solution. In order to really rescue the players, Grian’s got to get them to rebel against the Watchers as well. Refuse to play by the rules, by the expectation that they must murder and kill without mercy, without any attachment to their alliances or past friendships. Make everyone like Scott refusing to be the Boogeyman, or Skizz constantly trying to be wholesome (until the bloodlust gets the better of him anyway).

Ironically in order to achieve this, Grian’s best bet is to try to jog everyone’s lost memories of each other and the things they lost, both good and bad. But ultimately, this is going to make them (in the short term) suffer more. This is where you can insert all your Desert Duo/Flower Husband/whatever alliance you like most angst. But more practically, I like to imagine when “the cameras” are not watching, when Grian knows no one will notice or catch him, he sneaks around to the different alliances, even the ones he’s not part of, to ask them how they’re doing, if they remember anything from the past etc. (in a meta sense, the players edit and cut stuff from their videos all the time; who’s to say he isn’t trying to catch a quick chat while everyone’s mining?!) It also reflects in why Grian is constantly trying to make alliances with different people instead of just gravitate to one person, he needs to check on everyone and capitalize on every single opportunity. (besides the meta reason, being that cc!Grian wants to be creative, and sticking to the same person all the time isn’t very entertaining from a content creator perspective)

One last detail about the winners: I don’t have much to say about the fragments yet, because Martyn (sneaky boi) hasn’t yet revealed the significance of the fragments nor of their healing, although he has hinted Bad Things™ will happen if a player gets too fragmented. But I do think the winners are important: with the game finished, they give Grian a very short window of time to talk to one person directly, without Watcher interference. They’re always the last to be killed/swept away/revived by the Watchers, and I can imagine there’s a brief period of time when their souls are being transferred to The Void w/e where Grian can step in and interfere. In my theory, Grian passes on some sort of clue/push to the winners, as like a subtle message about what they can do to stand up to the Watchers. I’ll detail on what I think these individual messages were in part 2. Needless to say, 3rd Life was a traumatic experience for Grian for many reasons, but the nail in the coffin was the fact that he won, and therefore there was no way for him to pass a message onto anyone.

Conclusion

Hooooooo jeepers that was long @A@; Thank you so much for your patience reading this if you made it to the end, I really appreciate it. As I said, I’ve had these lore ideas bouncing in my head for a LONG time, and with the end of Secret Life I couldn’t get out of my head the different trends/symbolism that was popping out of an improv series. It honestly speaks a lot to how genius our favorite block dudes are at improv, that they can turn their improv nonsense into a coherent narrative. I really wanted to try my hand at fleshing out such a narrative, and with Martyn constantly drip-feeding lore to the fans, I had more than enough material to not just put out guesses but construct something a full XYZ. As I mentioned, I enjoy workshopping themes and characters a LOT more than just worldbuilding or “what if this or that” details in a vacuum, hence why I’ve written all that I have, so this was a fun exercise for me all around!

Next time in part 2 I talk about Character Development™, or character specific notes and details I’ve noticed and extrapolated from what we’ve seen of each individual player, as well as what their different arcs across the seasons mean for them within the lore. Stay tuned for another wordbarf!

Bonus list of works I was inspired by for this loredump:

Log Horizon

The Promised Neverland

Danganronpa (ironic as I’m not really a fan of this franchise, but the first game has an otherwise solid premise which I found really similar to the Life Series)

The Fate franchise (when Martyn asked “what’s Fate?” on the latest lore stream, let me tell you I couldn’t stop laughing; NO MARTYN DON’T GO INTO THE WEEB RABBIT HOLE)

Various amazing animatics from the Traffic fandom: Earth, Bang!, most of Melloz Heist’s works, and of course all the amazing fanart

Way too many conversations with my friends about fantasy species

[ruumirmir]

─┉─¡! • !¡─┉─

Rumoured rants

𝘓𝘦𝘯𝘨𝘵𝘩𝘺 𝘙𝘢𝘮𝘣𝘭𝘦𝘴 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘵𝘢𝘬𝘦 𝘰𝘷𝘦𝘳 𝘮𝘺 𝘣𝘳𝘢𝘪𝘯 𝘴𝘰𝘮𝘦𝘵𝘪𝘮𝘦𝘴 :)

ੈ♡˳ Gojo Satoru delusional theorycrafting

ੈ♡˳ Zhongli x reader fic brainrot

ੈ♡˳ Genshin headcanon of fatui work environments Ft. Loverboy

ੈ♡˳ The Tsaritza's daughter

ੈ♡˳ Lore crafting for a Pantalone x m!reader

ੈ♡˳ Biblically accurate Genshin isekai

ੈ♡˳ Pantalone with a dragon!reader this time ੈ♡˳ Pantalone ft. sexy suits

ੈ♡˳ Loverboy’s hydro vision

ੈ♡˳ Regrator's personality crumbs

ੈ♡˳ Project Stuzha

ੈ♡˳ Boothill ft. Riri

ੈ♡˳ Flowers for the Harbingers

ੈ♡˳ Gossipposting behind the Harbinger's backs

ੈ♡˳ Big brother Scaramouche

ੈ♡˳ Penny for my thoughts about Loverboy's hydro vision

ੈ♡˳ Annotated notes for Loverboy one-shot

ੈ♡˳ Loverboy memes

ੈ♡˳ Kafka ask

ੈ♡˳ Pantalone nsfw

ੈ♡˳ Played Wuthering waves