#dovetiger (kinda)

[henrybelly]

ik it's not a popular opinion but i think one of the reasons i still don't care for doveti-ger is bc i actually really liked how their arc ended in OOTS. i felt like there was a lot of maturity in dovewing's realisation that he thought her powers were 'cool' and they both got a thrill out of meeting up secretly, but that he didn't really understand her or share her values of what mattered--

but then the erins were like "lol first love is always true love, no exceptions" and then we regressed from there

[yuridovewing]

WAH thank you!! I like the idea of playing with Tallstar's family dynamic by adding more moving pieces like Finchkit who could potentially be pitted against each other and have that trauma ripple through the generations, and they have to cope with that. And the WindClan conflict being a thing long before Rusty arrived...

Family Tree Base Used

Razorverse!Sandstorm family tree ! I made Tallstar's family sadder. Info/Changes under the cut

Sandgorse:

-Largely the same as he is in canon, except he's held accountable for being a bad father. He does not reconcile with Tallstar, not even in StarClan. Like Rainstar(flower), he doubles down on his actions and refuses to apologize. Tallstar's arc is about realizing he’s never going to win his father’s approval and focusing on the cats who care about him.

-Did make him kinda worse though. He's transphobic to Tallstar. Sorry for putting transphobia in the warriors universe but uhhh. I mean my take on this world is allll about how restrictive and harmful the clans can be and how they need to acknowledge that and change so. Bigotry naturally kinda comes with that.

-Pressures both of his children to be tunnelers and puts their dying legacy on their shoulders. Tallpaw develops claustrophobia, only made worse by Sandgorse. Finchpaw does much better at it and becomes his golden child for a bit, but gives her a perfectionist complex.

-Might have his prefix changed to separate him from Sandstorm more

Palebird:

-Largely the same as in canon, except she doesn't have a litter with Woolytail. She does not want more children.

-She still has ppd and trouble connecting to her children. This is made worse by Sandgorse not being a very good mate to her and dismissing her mental health.

-Taking a page out of For Roads Untraveled's book here, her arc is about how the characters around her, including her mate, dismiss her declining mental health and how that affects her relationship with her kids. She loves them, but she struggles to care for them and be around them. Her only real supports are Brackenwing and Woolytail. Sandgorse holds every favor he does for the family over her head, and to get back at him, asks Heatherstar to make her kits moor runners. This causes a lot of strife for everyone involved, especially when Sandgorse dies on bad terms with them all. Palebird spends years being estranged from her kits, but they finally talk it out and reconcile later in life. She dies peacefully in her sleep.

-Dates Woolytail soon after Sandgorse's death cause she realized that they had more chemistry and respect for one another than she ever had with Sandgorse, who pressured her to give up moor running to be a tunneler with him "if she cared about him".

Tallstar:

-Trans male and gay. Sandgorse is not a fan. Too bad for him. Very briefly T4T with Jake but it doesn't last long- Jake is a kittypet at heart.

-Has claustrophobia and PTSD from the cave in that killed his father.

-More... politically neutral than anything throughout his leadership. He's leery of "outsiders" but doesn't inherently dislike them. He genuinely didn't have much of an issue with Mudclaw's more conservative thinking when he appointed him deputy.

-However, he is more friendly to ThunderClan because of their history. He trusted them enough to allow his niece to be nursed there, and later let his nephew join. He was deeply grateful for their help when they rescued WindClan from exile.

-He had a big change of heart in old age, realizing he has more kin outside of his clan at this point than inside, and the journey especially opens his eyes that the clans bonding together would be more beneficial than not. But by then, it was too late- he ended up hurting more cats than saving by making Onewhisker deputy against the latter's true wishes.

-Has a strained relationship with Onestar in StarClan. Onestar is very bitter over what Tallstar did, and Tallstar wishes he went about his decision differently every day and wants to reconcile with him.

-Misses his ThunderClan kin a lot. His sister's death hit him quite hard as she was his last remaining family.

Finchsong:

-Rescued dead kit... only to die later whoops.

-Very stubborn molly, both a good and bad thing depending on the time. She was always taking risks to do what she thought was right- for example, running into a blocked off tunnel to try and convince Heatherstar to bring back tunneling. Or running away with her brother to find their father's murderer.

-As a kit and apprentice, she was much more insecure. She was briefly Sandgorse's golden child, because she was less "cowardly" than her brother and "more willing to embrace her future". AKA, do what Sandgorse wanted, give up her apprenticeship with no lip, and not complain cause she was afraid of his reaction. She actually did like to tunnel, but Sandgorse took all the joy out of it for her. She just stressed and stressed and stressed over whether she was digging the way Sandgorse wanted her to (even if it didn't suit her) or if Sandgorse was in a bad mood or not. Her relationship with Tallpaw is fractured over this briefly, as she sides with her father and starts begging Tallpaw to "just go with it" so he could be accepted too.

-She doesn't say it, but Sandgorse's death was a relief. She was devastated, she was angry that it happened... but she felt like she could breathe. This made her feel horribly guilty- how could she feel better with her father buried in the earth rather than besides her? It's a big motivator for her joining Talltail on his quest, and when she finally speaks about these feelings to Talltail, it pushes the two of them to process their feelings about their father and helps them reconcile in the long run.

-However, she is still left as a massive perfectionist, to the detriment of herself.

-Bisexual. Sandgorse was not a fan of this either.

-Bonded with Smokemask later in life, and felt very comfortable around him. She felt she could mess up in front of him and not beat herself up over it. She originally wasn't going to have kittens, in fear of restarting the cycle she experienced with her family, but felt confident about having them with Smokemask.

-Unfortunately, Smokemask was slain in a border skirmish with ShadowClan before their second litter was born. The stress of this, as well as the cold season and sickness, left Finchsong weakened, and she didn't survive her kitting, along with two of her kittens.

Smokemask:

-OC character, his parents are filler characters intended to help the gene pool a bit. Born shortly after Tall and Finch, he was mostly just casual friends with them before growing very close to Finchsong later in life.

-He didn't have a lot going on. Go boy give us nothing

-Also bi probably

-Was a more calm and chilled out character than anything to contrast with Finchsong's stressed and stubborn character.

-Was close to his son Longtail.

-Unfortunately died before meeting his second litter in a border skirmish.

Longtail:

-Finch and Smoke's firstborn, he was a single-kit litter. He's only about seven moons older than Sandstorm.

-Might have been in the skirmish that killed his dad. Whoops!

-More trans swag, also aro ace.

-Was devastated when his mother died, as he was very close to her. He was a worrywart over his baby sister, to the point where he was allowed to visit her in ThunderClan and build a relationship with her. He spent a lot of time in the nursery because of this and ended up becoming very good with children. (Minus Firepaw oops)

-When Sandkit wanted to stay in ThunderClan, he was torn. Deciding that he wanted his sister to be happy, but not wanting to be apart from her, he left WindClan so that she'd have some kin over there.

-This does become a point of insecurity for him, however. ThunderClan doubts his loyalty and the older warriors constantly question him when they're at conflict with WindClan. This makes it very easy for him to get sucked up into Tigerclaw's friend group, where he adapts their harmful mindset. He decides that to be a true ThunderClan warrior, he and Sandkit have to renounce their WindClan relation and prove himself by protecting ThunderClan from treacherous outsiders.

-This is part of why he's so antagonistic to Firepaw. He lashes out because this is his chance to prove that he's not like those outsiders. Plus, he feels pretty humiliated being on equal standing with a kittypet. At least HE'S clanborn.

-This gets worse when Sandstorm gets close to Fireheart, he doubles down, but after Tigerclaw's exile, he's thrown head first into what his life will be like if he keeps up his xenophobic beliefs. Slowly, but surely, he tries to patch things up with Fireheart and really empathize with him, realizing they're not so different and opening up to him. Xenophobia loss.

-He gets put through the wringer hard. It's canon compliant from here on out til Swiftpaw's death, which he takes extremely hard. Fireheart, despite their terrible past, is a shoulder for him to lean on during this time. At this point, Sandstorm is pregnant, and Longtail decides to put his faith in Fireheart and follow him.

-After Whitestorm's death, Fireheart makes Longtail deputy. He makes for a good deputy for most of the year, but steps down when he's blinded in the first book of TNP (there's a smaller time gap between TPB and TNP)

-Dotes on Sandstorm's descendants pretty hard

Sandstorm:

-Was the only surviving kit in Finchsong's second litter.

-There were no other queens in the nursery when Sandkit was born, so no one could feed her. Thinking fast, Barkface remembered that one of ThunderClan's mollies had had a litter very recently, and said that Sandkit should be taken there to be fed.

-Her foster siblings were Dustkit and Ravenkit. She grew very close to Dustkit in particular. Dust and Raven's parents are unnamed ThunderClan cats that also happen to die pretty early in their lives.

-Bluestar had agreed to give her back to WindClan when she was weaned, but Sandkit cried and cried and clung to her foster mother when the time came. She didn't want to leave the forest, not her mother or Dustkit. Tallstar tried to make her come back... but quickly realized that he would just be making her miserable, thinking back to his brief romance with Jake, where the latter was clearly miserable living as a wild cat full time. Knowing that ThunderClan's numbers had been cut down harshly after their recent plague and that Bluestar was worried about their population, Tallstar agreed to allow Sandkit to be a ThunderClan cat.

-Growing up, however, she definitely felt her clanmates' judgement for not being born in ThunderClan. Even her best friend Dustpaw seemed to agree that while she was a good friend, it made sense that not everyone trusted her for not being born there. Similar to Longtail, her hostility to other clan cats and Firepaw stemmed from this insecurity.

-Loved her older brother a lot and admired him. She was very offended that he lost to Firepaw, which made her resent him even more as an apprentice.

-She was horrified when WindClan was driven out, however.

-When Fireheart, Graystripe, Whitestorm, and Tigerclaw are sent to find WindClan, Sandpaw follows them, outraged that the kittypet was sent to find them instead of her. Fireheart and Graystripe bicker with her, asking why she was bothering with the journey. At first, she refuses to tell them the real reason, embarrassed at what Fireheart may say about her heritage. But when Sandpaw nearly gets hit by a monster on the large thunderpath, Fireheart saves her, hurting himself in the process.

-As he's nursed back to health, Sandpaw stiffly thanks him for saving her. The two of them nearly bicker again, but it actually ends up being a nice enough conversation. Sandpaw finally tells Fireheart about her WindClan family, and how she felt out of place in ThunderClan sometimes because of it. And Fireheart... actually finds a bit of comfort in that, knowing that someone else felt the same pressure he did to prove themself. The two of them realize they have far more in common and Sandpaw gives him a thorough apology for how she treated him when he was an apprentice.

-When they find WindClan, she feels very awkward, but Uncle Tallstar is exceedingly happy to see her. He immediately trusts the ThunderClan patrol because of her presence. The two of them bond throughout the journey back home, Sandpaw feeling encouraged by Fireheart to reach out to her uncle and not renounce a relationship with him entirely.

-Despite running away, Whitestorm encourages Bluestar to make Sandpaw a warrior after the journey.

-There's a pretty big shift in the original five apprentice group dynamic after this. Graystripe pulls away due to his relationship with Silverstream, and Fireheart ends up leaning more on Sandstorm. Sandstorm ends up feeling more comfortable around Fireheart than around Dustpelt, who spends more time parroting Tigerstar these days and making her feel like there are strings attached to their friendship. Fireheart never made her feel like she had to pretend to be someone she wasn't, and she ended up loving his thoughtful and determined nature. Her friendship with Dustpelt implodes when she snaps at him for making a cruel joke about WindClan, and though they reconcile later when Dustpelt gets better, they are never that close ever again.

-She and Fireheart get together in Rising Storm, and their first litter (Squirrelkit/Leafkit) is born in The Darkest Hour. A couple of moons after The Last Hope, Sandstorm has their second litter (Sparkkit/Dandelionkit)

[stellaclaw]

7, 23 ask gameee

7. what character did you begin to hate not because of canon but because how how the fandom acts about them?

the thing about me is that its exceedingly rare for me to truly hate characters just because of their actions. i tend to really like villains and characters who do shitty things lol. its almost always fandom that makes me despise a character.

that being said… crowfeather and appledusk. oh my god, crowfeather and appledusk.

where the hell did anybody get the idea that appledusk is complex. his only role in the story is to cheat on his wife and then take the bullet for reedshine. saying he “genuinely mourned his kits” doesnt make me feel an ounce of sympathy for him when he eagerly threw mapleshade under the bus when she was quite clearly just as devastated as he was. besides that, he also cheated on reedshine, so you cant even pull the “oh but he only cheated on mapleshade because shes scawy”. and the way people just use reedshine as a prop for his Man Pain is so. vomits.

crowfeather needs no explanation. the fact that this guy was on the tragic characters bracket and not yellowfang pisses me off to this day. i have gone off on ragers about this guy when i see stupid takes. im not even against the idea of liking him as a character, i also like characters who are entitled abusive assholes. but his fans are so committed to the idea that hes so sad and complex and its everybody elses fault. it was okay he hit and neglected and berated his son because his son grew up ~evil~. points gun accept that your blorbo is abusive.

23. ship you’ve unwillingly come around to

hm…. dovetiger, maybe? im not exactly a dovetiger shipper. but i used to actively dislike and now im just kinda neutral. i just want dovewing to be happy.

[growling]

please give us the tea on the warrior cats ships!!!

I'll go first by saying Mothpool is overhyped and Leafpool had more chemestry with Cinderpelt. (in my opinion, ship what you like!)

:3c !!! Didn't think anybody would actually ask I am gonna gonna ramble now.. Separating this into pos and neg opinions

Positive:

I did think of leafcinder before and thought it was cute but not really something I'll get passionate about (i tend to be very picky on these kinda age gap/mentor x apprentice ships), now that I'm reminded of it I can really see it! They would have a great dynamic (taking tnp cinderpelt personality into account here. tbh her in tpb and her in tnp are almost different characters to me... where's your whimsy girl...), and honestly, there are almost endless options for Leafpool ships (she interacts with so many cats woagh that's crazy for this series she actually has friends??) that have more chemistry than crowpool. I mean it's fine I guess from a strictly plot perspective (and even that's well. bendable) but why is Leafpool, 30 cat years after their breakup, dead, in cat heaven, STILL deeply in love with cat Clay Puppington. I know they will get back together in StarClan because the authors absolutely love them and think they popped off writing their romance subplot they think they created a banger. Sorry this veered off into negative can't help being a hater.

hollyjaylion, leafsquirrel and bramblehawk are the three shipcest pairings I will never be able to be normal about. Canon to me. I say this as if I'm joking but I'm serious oughhh the goddamn dynamics. On a joking note though, graysky. there is no healthy nothing to see here just bro supporting his bro explanation for whatever the hell gray wing's problem was this entire arc

spottedtiger is cool it's interesting it's mindblowing it saves lives and it's haters are sooo silly I am sorry... "but spotted is his aunt according to the family tree!!!!" ok. and is this made relevant in the books at all? do they ever even acknowledge these two as kin. It's so pointless.. draw them making out

why's the fandom turning on darktiger suddenly now because they're still related (which is not even relevant or explicitly pointed out in the books and them being related was only decided way after both of their arcs together were done I. ughhhh.) wasn't this your favourite little henchman x fascist dictator toxic yaoi ship just a few years ago?? cowards. draw them making ou- ah wait that's just dark being obsessed with tiger, who on the other hand would RATHER NOT he wants that useless lickspittle OBLITERATED he doesn't CARE

ivyhawk good she could fix him. or he can make her worse. once again the fandom are major cowards for turning on it just like they did with darktiger, but much, much more aggresively so. like you people need to calm tf down just take deep breaths it's just a warrior cat ship...

people complaining about dovetiger's age gap (which are commonplace in the wc series tiger is not alone in dating apprentices) are so boring. they actually have the most wholesome dynamic in the current era/arcs I'd argue. they're in love and I love them. as a ship and both as characters.

fallenholly had the option to be one of THE best dubiously-canon wc pairings to come out of this series had they just went the direction of making fallen actually somewhat more messed up after being trapped as a ghost in the torment tunnels for cat centuries like. I remember someone else wording this really well earlier but I'm not really gonna search so just. Yeah. fallen leaves ships.

leopardtiger is hilarious I don't care. she thinks he's sooo correct and intelligent and truly the enlightened sigma worthy of the tigerclan podcast throne while also poisoning his food because he's fucking pissing her off in their side twitter dms and plotting his demise every night while he's snork mimimi'ing next to her in their kitty political marriage cuddle pile. ben shapiro x pragerU fucking ship I hope they kill each other

mudhawk... funny... seriously WHY is the fandom picking the most interesting goddamn ships to get pissed off at and call "problematic"??????? "age gap" THEY WERE BOTH ADULTS WHEN THEY MET WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU ON LET HAWK MANSPLAIN MANIPULATE MANFUCK THAT OLD MAN

I didn't read AVoS in it's entirety (and don't want to. it's... boring for the most part. I mean I love violet but is she enough to make me keep reading all that.) and don't remember if they even had any notable interactions but violetpuddle is very cute and my favourite (and, honestly, only) option for their ships. puddle's mother suckled violet but they don't consider each other "real" siblings just like how their mother doesn't consider violet as her daughter but try telling that to the fandom who can't distinguish between wet nurse arrangement, foster siblings and adopted siblings. Proud only resident of violetpuddle nation...... literally nobody else is here...

Negative: (gonna start censoring the cat/ship names now)

so correct moth.pool overhyped and their fans annoying. and also because I headcanon moth as aroace like there is not a single romantic thought in her body I cannot ever imagine her in a relationship moth don't care.

*takes a deep breath* mouse.fur is not aroace. tall.star, raven.paw and barley aren't gay. authorial statements made 10 years ago at some con ARE NOT CANON. IF IT'S NOT IN THE TEXT IT'S NOT CONFIRMED CANON. Also the latter examples also reek of biphobia lol. you can ship any of these characters with anyone forever, what is any of you people's problem.

long.fire, shadow.root, holly.cinder, bright.cloud, jay.kestrel are boring yaaawn I am falling asleep and do not see it. same with sandfire; these two did not have the groundbreaking dynamic (nor was sand that uh, well-rounded as character) you think they did you're just nostalgic. I actually prefer spottedfire and cinderfire over sandfire. anything over sandfire.

hawk.ash pisses me off because their shippers are always "hahahaha toxic yaoi sooo fucked up they make each other worse!!" but show them an actual toxic pairing and they immediately shit themselves and call you an abuse fetishizer. COWARDS you lot are COWARDS and this is why I cannot get behind hawk.ash at all like I associate them with the most annoying people so much I cannot sorry. I'm sure it's a cool ship or whatever

I actually got tired and now am too sleepy to articulate myself properly anymore but still here are the other ships that I either dislike or just plain out hate seeing: fern.ivy, alder.needle, crow.squirrel, bristle.root, bramble.squirrel (but that's a very popular one lol), lion.cinder.

thanks for the ask! :3

[nanistar]

How about Tigerheart :D

i like tigerheart!!!

sexuality headcanon bi

gender/pronouns headcanon cis but ive seen headcanons where hes a tgirl and i like those ones theyre fun (:

rate them out of ten 9/10 could be less aggro

favorite thing about them i like how defensive he is of his family. a lot of warrior cat parents are kinda meh or are pushovers when it comes to standing up for their kids or whatever, but even when shadowsight is in the wrong he still sticks up for him. also i think its hardcore as fuck to be the deputy and then leader of a clan and be like. yeah ive been dating this girl from thunderclan for like 2 years. shes moving in. im leader what are you gonna do about it. if you disrespect her i will kill you. he;s a wifeguy and i love that for him

least favorite thing about them he seems to flip between reasonable and normal, and GRR ANGRY antagonist. i know its just bad writing but bleh

why i first started liking/disliking them i didn't really like him thru oots but started appreciating him a lot more in the later books

do i relate/project onto/kin them? no

favorite quote/moment when he died and they kinda just said fuck it and threw his body in the moonpool and he rez'd. very good. also its funny that an owl killed him. kinda cringe

my fav ship dovetiger DUH

my fav platonic friendship i wish he could be friends with ivypool but no she has to be an asshole about everything </3

a ship i hate i haven't seen him shipped with like, anyone honestly

do i prefer canon or fanon? canon mostly

random headcanon he wishes that tawnypelt would have named him something else, but is trying really hard to reclaim the "tigerstar" name

what color do i picture them as dark tabby with grayish tones. maybe a lil creme

cat breed headcanon just a regular guy. kinda skinny and fluffy

unpopular opinion he's awesome. i genuinely really like him.

things i associate with them

song i associate with them

favorite MAP/PMV/AMV with them

i mean .

[the-owl-tree]

A bit of a dissenting voice from the other anon, I do appreciate that people are willing to hold the story accountable for age gaps, but I do think to some extent it's... Kinda just how it is? Not saying it's a good thing, because it's definitely not, but a lot of ships in warrior cats have an age gap, and contain members who have known each other since one was much younger. FernIvy has a much larger age gap, and Ivy knew Fern since he was a kitten. There's also DustFern, BlueThrush (not canon but Thrush is rarely held to the standard Tiger is despite the greater age gap), BrambleSquirrel, Mothpool, FeatherCrow, just off the top of my head.

Obviously it's not good, and there should be discussion about the reasons why age gaps can be predatory but I think it's also worth keeping in mind that Warriors is full of age gaps. DoveTiger is not a terribly unique situation, even if it is prone to more criticism because people are more critical of the characters involved (You'll be hard pressed to find someone calling Thrush or Ivy problematic for their own romantic feelings for a much younger clanmate)

While I wouldn’t agree with Thrush and Blue being problematic (the former starts catching feelings when she’s a grown adult after all) or MothPool (it’s a few moons at best and we know that Medic apprenticeships last longer than warriors but that’s a whole other debate), it is kind of interesting that FernIvy and TigerDove don’t really get the same amount of slack (especially when Ivy had a whole prophecy about how she’s related to her much younger mate 😬).

It’s an unfortunate aspect of the series and it’s important to discuss but I also realize how inconsistent ages are in the series makes it difficult (seriously, how old is an apprentice. how old do you have to be to train for war in warriors).

[puppypaw-wc]

So like...

AU where basically Leafpool decides to give the Three (Jay, Lion and Holly) to different Clans.

She and Crowfeather bring Hollykit to Nightcloud, who’s often out late due to insomnia or something, I don’t know. They decide that she’ll raise her as her own and as Breezekit’s sister. She and Crowfeather have a better relationship here - they were in the nursery together and were best friends as apprentices. Holly and Breeze are like... super close here... he comforts his sis after the reveal and lets her know that he loves her as v much regardless of if they’re blood related or not.

Lionkit is brought to Mothwing, who tells Leopardstar about LeafCrow. Leopardstar says that she’s not one to judge for it given that she herself liked a cat in another Clan once (Tigerstar I) and has a half-Clan cat as her deputy. She tells the Clan that Lionkit is an abandoned kit they found, and he becomes very close with Willowpaw. They’re like... best friends. I’m starting to ship them help.

Jay is brought to ThunderClan. Bramble is told about the gist of things, as are Fire, Fern (already told about everything beforehand), Daisy (yet again, already told about everything beforehand), Sorrel (I don’t wanna type that a third time) and Sand. Also like... LeafSorrel might be a thing here... and IceMoth is also a thing... maybe a giant polyship??? We’ll see...

And Dovewing is in ShadowClan... Tigerheart’s still an apprentice when she’s born... I kinda wanna make her be a meddie after Flametail dies... I mean what Flametail doesn’t die... he survive... cuz I need FlameJay...

Basically what happens here: lots of forbidden romances. I don’t know how Dove and Briar meet, I’m not sure on that last bit, I might keep Dove in ThunderClan... I think I will because meddie Dovewing w/ Jay as a mentor is great... and also cuz DoveBriar...

[artyfartyliz]

i just want tigerheartstar to be a lovable goofy boy again like he was in early omen of the stars... i loved him that way a lot