#dos2 is also much more linear

[obsidiannebula]

Husband apparently found some posts of people complaining about trying to play Divinity: Original Sin 2 after enjoying BG3. And to that I say, just be glad you weren't playing with my husband, whose favorite battle strategies were "Laser Ray everything and I mean EVERYTHING in his path" and "use Internal Combustion on allies to turn them into walking time bombs if that maximizes the number of enemies hit, and also out of combat just for fun"

[lunarbard]

After a 6 hour download due to bad internet, I finally got around to playing the Baldur's Gate 3 epilogue. And it feels like yet another piece of a game that fails to be more than the sum of its parts.

I'm a fan of Larian studios - DOS2 is one of my favorite games - and I appreciate how much work went into Baldur's Gate 3. I also ran seven playthroughs in that first release month; I've probably run through that game more than 90% of its players today, let alone given the timeframe. But BG3 had already been the biggest push for me to move away from D&D 5e in my tabletop games just from the Early Access, and I went into the release knowing I would find the combat rather insufferable (especially after a month or so of playing Wildermyth, which probably has my favorite simple tactical combat in a crpg I've played). And the application of skills in general. But honestly the cinematics / story delivery (and promise of consequences later) in EA had me wanting to see the rest of the game.

And the game does have its moments: Karlach's monologue & Dark Urge refusing their blood are fantastic. But those are all that really stood out in their entirety,

I stopped playing the game because the seventh playthrough was my tactician run for the last achievement at the time, and ironically it was the first time I actually got Dark Urge's special good ending (my four other Dark Urge runs I went to Avernus with Karlach). And the game gives this little somber note of reflection for Dark Urge, and it's an incredible moment that gives more closure for the whole game than the default endings and epilogue combined.

Then it's rather strangled the moment you reflect on the rest of the game, because the game doesn't allow itself much space to breathe. And it's all the tadpoles' fault.

If there's one thing missing from BG3 (which is being generous), it's adventure. The tadpoles have a lot of game design uses, but perhaps their largest impact is how they allow the game to yoink you on a single track towards its conclusion. So exploration is limited, and typically just rewards you with the equivalent of a pile of necrotic needles & a blighted shambling mound digesting you (all with a 30 perception check required to not be surprised, mind you). Or you accidentally skip half an act because you wandered into a tomb.

But I digress on why Act 2 is a wad of melting glue desperately trying to bridge the gap between the two actual halves of the game.

DOS2 and BG3 are both built out of wide area maps set in linear chains. There seems to be this philosophy that single, completely interconnected maps are just better than traveling between smaller areas via a world map even when those maps make the story make less sense, like the goblin camp being a ~10 minute walk from the grove down a straight road.

I want you to imagine what Act 1` might look like if the map was instead properly split up into distinct locations across an overworld map:

Your arrival in the grove is timed with the goblins attacking Waukeen's Rest; if you look through the telescope, you see their banners marching in that direction.

That gives you a marker on your world map to travel to, which takes a few hours overland and you find the place burning after the raid and can help the people there.

Here you could get two leads: the Zhentarim sending you down the road to the toll post to check on their shipment (with the flind & gnolls being a set encounter when trying to reach there) and tracks that lead to the blighted village.

In the blighted village you encounter some goblins, get the location of the goblin camp (likely from a dead or alive goblin), and head to that marker to find the warband returned from the inn and celebrating. (or maybe you find information on the Selunites here, and follow the indications of a Selunite temple in hopes of finding a healer, only to find it ruined with goblins in it).

Area divisions - whether short loading zones in old Monster Hunter or a dotted line for travel across a world map - give a ton of space to state or imply time & distance without needing to accurately render them. Pathfinder: Kingmaker did a great job of also throwing in some party banter for companions when you rested, which, with a good budget, could do wonders for providing those little companion interactions a good chunk of bg3 players appear to crave.

Those are some of the breathing moments the game needed. Little bits of connection, reflection, and companionship. I want more small moments for Dark Urge where you get to have them think on their affliction - really think! not "kick cat: Yes / no / normal dialogue." I want more urges that are actually urges and you have to resist, or actively save someone, and build this narrative anywhere other than your head because the game treats the Dark Urge as "here's a really evil option. You're good for not picking it."

Which sums up 95% of the game's "moral" choices too.

The one thing BG3 does better than any crpg I've played is its graphics, cinematics, and letting you make an explicitly trans character.

And I think that's why the epilogue felt so flat to me. You walk around and talk to people, then watch everyone give a toast. For all I've come to dread the thought of playing this game, I would pay a good amount to get an epilogue that's like DOS2, but with cinematics instead of character art.

[superconductivebean]

#870: back in the bibby

Yours Truly has finally completed BG3 for the second time.

I'll keep myself short: as much as I love and adore Larian, BG3 is too easy and linear to my liking; DOS2 has certainly been at play in my judgement. As well as the older games in the series.

I liked: OST, nearly all of the characters, locations, side-quests, side-characters, inventory management, aoe spells.

I disliked: Act 3, Raphael, the Emperor.

I've mixed feelings about: Long Rest idea, I think, was a cool experiment and cutscenes has had an impact on how the story is presented, but at some point it all became too much.

I don't blame Larian for this, though, they always have profound ideas -- yet, if there would be noticeable difference between the map and the camp gameplays, it'd be a welcome change of pace. I'll explain.

In the Darkest Dungeon, characters may refuse to go on a raid if they're scared or low on HP. In BG3, characters often comment on their mental state and ask for the rest but their exhaustion exists within the narrative sense of urgency that never translates into the actual gameplay. Combat doesn't become tedious and restricted, characters don't disapprove of the lack of rest or press on instead, etc etc etc. Would it be an interesting gameplay formula?

idk, needs testing and also more camp gameplay, certainly sorting items by hand isn't exactly it.

However, I must add, the game has been cut from a lot of content from the EA-stage in due course of its release, it's entirely possible Larian will bring at least something back -- and something new and cool along with it.

as of now im back to my daily walks around the loch valley i want drooling over castles x10000 times pls

[thomasroach]

Baldur’s Gate 3 Interview with Larian and Wizards of the Coast

The post Baldur’s Gate 3 Interview with Larian and Wizards of the Coast appeared first on Fextralife.

Catching up with Larian Studios Founder Sven Vincke and Mike Mearls of Wizards of the Coast and Creative Director of Dungeons & Dragons, we had a few burning questions in mind in the wake of the news that Larian Studios are working on Baldur’s Gate 3. The studio is well known for its Divinity Original Sin series, and we wanted to find out exactly how this whole thing fell into motion. It was Sven Vincke who originally approached Mike Mearls with the interest of developing BG3, but as we found out in this interview, a lot went into this collaboration.

Baldur’s Gate 3 Interview with Larian and Wizards of the Coast

We knew fans would be eager to know how previous games would impact Baldur’s Gate 3, whether it would continue the story or use different time frames like their Divinity games. Vincke explained that there have been “several instalments of Baldur’s Gate involving the Forgotten Realm’s lore so you have Baldur’s Gate 1 and 2, as well as the tabletop campaigns”, with the newest one called called Descent into Avernus releasing on September 17th. Baldur’s Gate 3 will take place after these events “[meaning] you are going to see plenty of references to things that happened in city in the past” as well as seeing settings from BG1 was based on the Forgotten Realms, along with references to events that happened in the new campaign Descent into Avernus.

Vincke assures that this will be a new story for fans to enjoy, with “several characters from the campaign” so you will see some familiar faces if you’re fan of the series. We had a number of questions pertaining how their experience with Divinity would influence their development with Baldur’s Gate 3 as well further details features, multiplayer and more.

FL: What rule set will you be using?

Vincke: Based on the 5th Edition because we ported all the rules to the computer game and looked at what worked and what didn’t work. There are somethings that don’t work for video games. But there is also the aspect if you’re playing tabletop, the game master and imaginations is a large part of it. There are things that are just not described in the rule set that you could do and we obviously have to make it work inside of the video game, that is something that we have to add on top of it.

FL: Are you planning to add anything that you had done with Divinity to that, or will it be straight Dungeons and Dragons?

Vincke: No, if you are in combat you say “I take the table and I throw it at him” right so that is something that we have to describe in the video game also, that’s an interaction with the environment, things like that you will see we have gone quite far.

Mearls: We don’t have specific rules for all those interactions, its up to the game master to extend those rules.

FL: How linear are you planning on making it?

Vincke: It is similar to the original Baldur’s Gate, and especially in Baldur’s Gate 2 it has a really cool mechanic that I really liked and I referenced a lot throughout Divinity Original Sin to the team where it had earn I think it was 20,000 gold to be able to take a ship, that was the type of freedom that was present there which we offered in DOS and you will see in BG3.

FL: Can you create a save based on the actions based on your actions in the previous games Baldur’s Gate 1 and 2?

Vincke: No, as they are closed chapters.

Will BG3 have multiplayer?

Vincke: From DOS1 to DOS2 you saw a lot of change how we handled multiplayer. So from DOS2 to BG3 you will see an evolution on how we handle it. The party is a very big focus this time, the slogan of the game is “gather your party”. BG2 was very party focused, they had a lot of mechanics for that time, how they handled the party. So expect innovation in that direction. Yes it will have co-operative multiplayer.

We did asked more specifics on the mechanics of parties and how many would in a party but Vincke was not willing to share exact details at this stage.

FL: What engine are you using, is it the same as DOS2?

Vincke: It’s the next generation of our own engine, Dragon Commander was 1.0, DOS1 was 2.0, DOS2 was 3.0 and Definitive Edition was 3.5. Now we are heading to 4.0, a completely new shift, we’ve upgraded the engine, there’s a lot tech that has been developed for quite some time.

FL: In regards to the artstyle of the game is it going to be similar to Divinity or are you guys going in a different direction?

Vincke: You’ve seen the teaser trailer? That sets the tone.

FL: In terms of camera angles, are you going to use the top down isometric view or go with the approach that you had with the definite edition of DOS1?

Vincke:[Laughs]You’ll see.

FL: How long can we expect the game to be in terms of gameplay?

Vincke: I expect players to spends 100 hours, if they go through everything. We’re making it a more a length to what we had in DOS2, its hard to tell until everything is done but I would say approximately 100 hours.

FL: Are you going to keep the traditional D&D classes, will you maintain this or expand upon it?

Vincke: Yes. If you know D&D 5th Edition and start Baldur’s Gate 3, you will know what to do.

FL: Will you be able to take sub-classes like in other D&D games?

Vincke: Yes you will.

FL: Will you have any famous D&D players appear as Easter eggs in the game?

Vincke: No comment.

FL: This is a hugely anticipated sequel, how much pressure is that and how do you deal with that?

Vincke: Well there is obviously a lot of expectations, people have been waiting for this game for a very long time. We try not to think of the pressure, we focus on making a good of a game as we can, our team is very very talented. We have Dungeons & Dragons we have Wizard of the Coast helping us, the collaboration is very close, we also have the funding to do this also without the publisher pressure as we are doing it ourselves. We have all the ingredients to make a really good RPG, we could still fuck it up, but there’s a really big drive and passion within the team to make it really good, more so than what we saw with DOS2. For a lot of the members of our team, their first RPG was Baldur’s Gate. There are a lot of tabletop sessions going on continuously in the offices and the different studios, so there is a lot of drive in this.

This is what we’re trying to do with BG3, the video game is the game master we’re trying to give you as much possibility of doing things just like you would be able to in a tabletop, that’s literally the drive behind what we do.

FL: In Divinity Original Sin you added a Dungeon Master mode, are you going to add something similar to that?

Vincke: No comment.

FL: Are you going to have modding tools?

Vincke: No comment.

FL: What platforms will it be released on?

Vincke: PC and Stadia.

So far PC and Stadia are the only platforms announced for Baldur’s Gate 3, Larian were unable to comment on whether it will be open to further platform in future.

FL: What is your publishing time frame?

Vincke: We have a time frame we’re looking at, we know people have been waiting on this game for sometime, they will probably will wait a bit longer. We need to get it right, we won’t release it if it’s not right. This is a game we want to play ourselves also, so it’s something we’ve been waiting for ourselves for a long time. We are going to try really deliver on it, we’ll see how much time it takes. We announce now because we to want to talk with the community, really understand what they are looking for, match it against our vision of what we’re doing, then together evolve.

FL: Are you going to do an early access?

Vincke: What we are not doing is a Kickstarter. We will announce when the time is right.

FL: How do you guys know that Larian was the right studio?

Mearls: I was involved in the business side of things, once the deal was signed. It was funny because when I first was told “oh we’re working with Larian” I was running many DD campaigns, there was one DD campaign I was running, I asked people at the table if they were to make Baldur’s Gate 3 who would you want to make it? They all answered Larian. So that told me we were on the right track. I remember when we first started working together, started collaborating, it was just a natural thing. On a creative level I think we have very similar attitudes towards roleplaying games whether they be tabletop or digital computer RPG, and I think we also have a similar sense in idea of developing the community. Roleplaying gamers, it’s funny, we each tell our own story but I think like the role of telling our own stories together, that there just a natural sense of community. That’s what happens when you bring people together in a tabletop, or even in a video game, the idea of sharing what you’ve done or playing co-op. So I think its kind of reflected in how we work together, it feels like almost this adventuring party getting together and plotting out the next great D&D story.

One of our first meetings we just laid down a map of the Sword’s Coast in Baldur’s Gate, “what if we went here? What if we went to this location?” It just felt like a natural design jam, it just felt like the D&D team, it didn’t feel like outsiders coming in, it just felt natural. There’s stuff mechanically where we were thinking of making a change to one of classes of the tabletop game, so I sent email over to your side [Larian], Vicke said “oh we have something very similar, we’re already thinking of implementing”. Theres even some part we were working on in terms of the lore, that’s going to be coming back from the game to the sort of core of D&D, that might influence future tabletop stories. It feels very collaborative, if this wasn’t part of my career it would be something I would be dying to know about, it feels like a very natural partnership.

Divinity Original Sin has been spiritual successor of Baldur’s Gate, it has the same agency, you can do so many things in different ways. From talking with both Larian studios and Wizards of the Coast, this seems to be a match made in heaven. Baldur’s Gate 3 appears to be in very good hands, not only taking inspiration from the previous titles, but adding their own uniqueness with their story as they plan together the next great adventure.

If you enjoyed this interview be sure to check out the Baldur’s Gate 3 wiki which will keep you up-to-date with all the latest information as it unfolds.

The post Baldur’s Gate 3 Interview with Larian and Wizards of the Coast appeared first on Fextralife.

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