#dominic catrambone

[aroacewolfic]

I'm rewatching tmnt (the 2012 version) and I got up to the last few episodes of season and ngl I freaked out when I heard leos voice and now going into season 3 (i know they gave the voice change a reason but like) with his voice even more changed idk if I'm gonna finish this rewatch idk if I can do it like which side of the autism is gonna win this time the not liking change or the i need all the content i can get on this or imma cry.

[indieyuugure]

Do you picture 2012 Leo having the same voice actor for Rise of the Parallel and The Mutation Situation? If you do, which of his 3 voice actors would you pick?

I imagine them having two different actors.

In ROTP, it takes place after the end of the series, so Seth Green in the voice actor I imagine playing ROTP Leo.

In the Mutation Situation, however, it takes place in late season two, specifically between ep20 and 21, so I believe by that time Dominic Catrambone was his voice actor, so I guess that’s how I imagine he sounds.

Good question! :]

[incorrect-tmnt2012-quotes]

curious which of Leo’s voice actors was your favourite? i think i liked the substitute voice actor from the last chunk of season 2 the most. Seth Green was alright imo but sometimes i swear i kept hearing Chris Griffin.

it was like hearing Sonic every time the Pulverizer talked lol

Personally my favorite was Seth Green. I loved his delivery on Leo’s lines and you can tell he was really passionate about being casted in the role. One of the main reason he accepted the role to be the new VA for Leo was because his wife’s favorite Turtle is Leo, gotta respect a man who love his wife!

I will admit, I remember when season 3 first aired and I was really not into the Seth’s voice for Leo in the beginning. It was a big change to get used to. I think it was because I was so used to Jason Biggs’ voice (he’s my second fav of the 3 Leo VAs) at the time and even on rewatch nowadays the first few episodes of season 3 still make it a hard adjustment, but I’d say by the mid of season 3, Seth absolutely nailed it! He makes Leo sound mature (which fits his character given everything he has gone through by that point) but also manages to make him still sound like a teenager, and have that innocent nature to him, for example, when he fanboys over Spaceheroes, and his voice fits perfectly for the strict older brother role.

This is probably an unpopular opinion, but I really did not like Leo’s temporary voice replacement during the second half of season 2. Not that Dominic Catrambone did a terrible job, it’s just he’s stuck out way too much and not in a good way to me. It sounded like Jason’s voice but going through bad puberty and Seth’s voice was the aftermath of it all XD

[katanadepapel]

Voice actors 🇺🇲 and 🇧🇷 of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles

💙LEONARDO💙

TMNT (1987)

🇺🇲Cam Clarke

🇧🇷Manolo Rey

TMNT (2003)

🇺🇲Mike Sinterniklaas

🇧🇷Mauro Eduardo Lima

TMNT (2012)

🇺🇲Jason Biggs

(1°voice)

Dominic Catrambone

(2°voice)

Seth Green

(3°voice)

🇧🇷Antônio Akira

(1° voz)

Bruno Camargo

(2°voz)

ROTTMNT (2018/2022)

🇺🇲Ben Schwartz

🇧🇷Fabrício Rinaldi

TMNT MUTANT MAYHEM (2023)

🇺🇲Nicolas Cantu

🇧🇷Rodrigo Ribeiro

💙

♥️ RAPHAEL♥️

TMNT (1987)

🇺🇲Rob Paulsen

(1°voice)

Thom Pinto

(2°voice)

Hal Rayle

(3°voice)

🇧🇷Marco Ribeiro

(1°voz)

Duda Ribeiro

(2°voz)

TMNT (2003)

🇺🇲Frank Frankson

🇧🇷Renato Soares

(1°voz)

Wendell Bezerra

(2°voz)

TMNT (2012)

🇺🇲Sean Astin

🇧🇷Hermes Baroli

(1°voz)

Felipe Zilse

(2°voz)

ROTTMNT (2018/2022)

🇺🇲Omar Benson Miller

🇧🇷Glauco Marques

TMNT MUTANT MAYHEM (2023)

🇺🇲Brady Noon

🇧🇷Victor Hugo Fernandes

♥️

💜 DONATELLO💜

TMNT (1987)

🇺🇲Barry Gordon

(1° voice)

Greg Berg

(2°voice)

🇧🇷Márcio Simões

TMNT (2003)

🇺🇲Sam Riegel

🇧🇷Márcio Araújo

TMNT (2012)

🇺🇲Rob Paulsen

🇧🇷 Wendell Bezerra

ROTTMNT (2018/2022)

🇺🇲Josh Brener

🇧🇷Marco Aurélio Campos

TMNT MUTANT MAYHEM (2023)

🇺🇲Micah Abbey

🇧🇷Arthur Carneiro

💜

🧡MICHELANGELO🧡

TMNT (1987)

🇺🇲Townsend Coleman

🇧🇷Marcelo Meirelles

(1° voz)

Mário Jorge Andrade

(2° voz)

TMNT (2003)

🇺🇲Wayne Grayson

🇧🇷Yuri Chesman

TMNT (2012)

🇺🇲Greg Cipes

🇧🇷Daniel Figueira

ROTTMNT (2018/2022)

🇺🇲Brandon Mychal Smith

🇧🇷Caio Guarnieri

TMNT MUTANT MAYHEM (2023)

🇺🇲Shamon Brown Jr.

🇧🇷Enzo Dannemann

🧡

💛APRIL O'NEIL 💛

TMNT (1987)

🇺🇲Renae Jacobs

🇧🇷Dolores Machado

TMNT (2003)

🇺🇲Veronica Taylor

🇧🇷Márcia Regina

TMNT (2012)

🇺🇲Mae Whitman

🇧🇷Tatiane Keplmair

(1°voz)

Fernanda Bullara

(2°voz)

ROTMNT (2018/2022)

🇺🇲Kat Graham

🇧🇷Maíra Paris

TMNT MUTANT MAYHEM (2023)

🇺🇲Ayo Edebiri

🇧🇷Any Gabrielly

💛

🤎 SPLINTER 🤎

TMNT 1987

🇺🇲Peter Renaday

(1°voice)

Townsend Coleman

(2°voice)

🇧🇷Dario Lourenço

(1°voz)

Miguel Rosenberg (2°voz)

Orlando Drummond

(3°voz)

TMNT (2003)

🇺🇲Darren Dunstan

🇧🇷Válter Santos

(1°voz)

Renato Márcio

(2°voz)

TMNT (2012)

🇺🇲 Hoon Lee

🇧🇷Nestor Chiesse

ROTTMNT (2018/2022)

🇺🇲Eric Bauza

🇧🇷Raul Rosa

TMNT MUTANT MAYHEM

(2023)

🇺🇲Jackie Chan

🇧🇷Tatá Guarnieri

🤎

[shantechni]

Favourite voice actor for Leo?

I liked Catrambone a lot. Feel like that’s an unpopular opinion but idk for some reason he replicated Biggs’ voice just enough to still sound like Leo but not too much that you still felt like you were hearing Biggs.

Seth Green did well but I kept hearing Chris Griffin occasionally.

Like hearing Sonic when the Pulverizer talked lol

From a basic perspective, I don't have a favorite voice actor for 2012 Leo. I ranted about this on reddit, but each voice brings something unique to the table that fits each point of the story.

Jason was obviously who everyone got used to hearing since day one and he perfectly fit the image of Leo that we were presented with: a dorky teenage boy who does his best to follow in his father's footsteps while doing his best to lead a new team made up of his brothers. He was good at portraying Leo's nerdiness everytime he geeked out over Captain Ryan, he pulled out a cheeky tone with hilarious results when combined with comedic timing, and he managed to make Leo sound perfectly like a cocky, fledgling leader and an older brother. Not too strong, but not too soft. There was even the occasional voice crack lol. When I think of the Leo from S1 & 2 who was still struggling to find his footing as a leader while juggling the weight of his insecurities and concerns, I hear Jason's voice.

Dominic was the best replacement for Jason, I will fight anyone to the death if they oppose me😤I didn't notice right away that Leo had a new voice until he sounded a bit more nasally than I recalled, but Dominic still sounded just fine. There were moments when he managed to sound a lot like Jason, and he did his best to carry the energy Jason pumped into Leo during his time. People can complain all they want, but he did an amazing job considering how sudden the temporary change was.

I honestly don't hear Chris when I listen to Seth as Leo, maybe it's just me lol, but I get what you mean. Especially when you mention Roger voicing Timothy (I heard Sonic at some points too but I love it).

Seth catches more flak than necessary for how different his voice sounds in comparison to the previous actors. I love him as Leo, and everytime I think of the Leo we see post the S2 finale, his voice is what I hear because, again, it just fits. Leo's more experienced and understanding of how fleeting their lives are when they're thrown into battle, and he's grown into his role. The grittier voice goes along with how the story proceeds from S3 and beyond.

Now, from a personal perspective, though there's little space between them since I love them all, Seth is my favorite voice of the three. Dominic filled the shoes for Leo for a brief period of time and he sufficed by sounding as close to Jason as possible, but Seth came in to fill those shoes for the rest of the series. He sounds nothing like Jason and gives a slightly different image to Leo than what we've grown used to, he automatically had a lot of expectations from fans and a lot of weight to pull as the new voice for Leo. And he did a stellar job.

[shadowqueen402]

The English Voice Actors For The NiD Characters

Here are the english voice actors that I believe should voice these characters.

Jackle: Liam O'Brien

Puffy: Nika Futterman

Selph: Ray Chase

Elliot Edwards: Dominic Catrambone

Claris Sinclair: Mela Lee

Roger Wilkeah: Benjamin Diskin

[my-name-is-bunnyfoxy]

Wasn't really gonna explain but meh why not I'm bored.

There might be some people confused so I'ma explain a little. Sadly it won't be in full detail but Jason Biggs, the original VA for 2012 Leo before he was replaced, had from 2012-2014 been making controversial tweets such as sexual jokes about Ann Romney and Janna Ryan in response to the 2012 Republican National Conventio joking about the missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 in 2014, joking about Malaysia Airlines Flight , which was shot down later that year, and mocking the death of The Bachelorette contestant Eric Hill.

Several calls have been made to Nickelodeon asking to fire Jason for this and eventually he was fired around 2014, with episode "Of Rats And Men" being his last episode he would voice Leonardo and would later be replaced by Dominic Catrambone.

MM Fans: With all the controversy, we’re worried that Leo’s voice actor will get replaced!

TMNT 2012 Fans:

[putterpen]

My Favorite Turtle Voices. I frequent a TMNT forum called the Technodrome, and a thread on there brought up this question.

Oh boy. This is not an easy topic for me to tackle. I love all (most) of the voices for the ninja turtles. And I like them all separately in a compartmentalized fashion. So I can't really say I have a favorite but I'll do my best. It will be based on the voice I hear in my head when reading the comics or fanfiction. This is a list of my favorite voices, not necessarily my favorite versions of the character, though the voice can add a lot to that choice for me.

Raphael: Greg Abbey. I know he isn't the only Raphael to have the Brooklyn accent but I liked his the most. His voice has a gruffness I don’t think any other Raphael possesses so he stands out. 80′s Raph is an incredibly close second place. But that might just be due to my love for Rob Paulson, I love OT Raphael’s sass and jokes. 

I must give honorable mention to Omar Benson Miller(Rise). Rise Raphael isn't my favorite Raph but he is my favorite character in that show.

Donatello: Rob Paulson and Sam Riegel. I remember being really apprehensive about Rob Paulson voicing Donatello but after the first couple of episodes I was completely sold. Love the sass. I adore Sam Riegel's voice because he makes Donatello sound calm and introspective. My two favorite voices for Donatello are nearly the polar opposites of each other.

This was a tough choice so I made it a tie. So Barry Gordon(1987) is second place lol.

Michelangelo:Townsend Coleman wins easily. Mostly because his voice is the template every Mikey after him followed. But like I said, I adore every Mikey voice, but Coleman's Mikey is the voice I hear the most in my head. Second place goes to both Wayne Grayson(2k3) and Robbie Rist(90s Movies). Robbie Rist is just a cool dude (And I liked him in Naruto). With Wayne Grayson, I was always yelling "I'm the Battle Nexus Champion!!" at my friends when I'd win in Smash Bros. None of them got the joke unfortunately.

Leonardo: Jason Biggs. *dodges rocks* 

Saving the best for last  here. To be honest, I have no problem with Cam Clark or Mike Sinterniklaas but Jason Biggs' performance was the first time I ever saw Leo as more than just "the boring leader one". For the first time Leo had a personality outside of "leader" and I was immediately charmed. It's hard to explain but Biggs' Leo is of course serious and focused on leadership, but in a "boyscout" kind of way. He is such a sweetheart.  For the first time ever, Leonardo was my favorite turtle...for the first two seasons at least.

I give second place to Mike Sinterniklaas(2K3) for doing a better job at voicing a "serious business" version of the character. I'd give second place to James Arnold Taylor (2007 movie) but I'm more used to Sinterniklaas' voice. 

So you can probably guess I was not happy about the voice actor change  for Leonardo in 2k12. If nothing else I would have gladly kept Dominic Catrambone for the rest of the show. He did such a good job as a temporary replacement that I didn't know Biggs was gone until I checked the credits on a wiki. 

Seth Green shot Leo right back down into that generic "I'm the boring leader" zone that I was quite happy to do without. 

So my most controversial opinion is Seth Green's voice is the only voice in all TMNT history I have actively disliked.

So anyway! Third place goes to literally every voice actor I didn't mention on this list. So that includes the 2007 movie, 2014/16 movies, the 90s movies, Rise, and whatever else I can't remember right now.

[rainbow-filmnerd]

Leonardo (TMNT 2012)

First impression: I didn't think too much about Leo when I began the series/my dive into the franchise.

Impression now: BIGGEST DORK just doing his best.

Favorite moment: Whenever he fanboys about Space Heroes. And also his fights in Fungus Humongous, Vision Quest, The Deadly Venom, and Owari.

Idea for a story: Leo reaching spiritual enlightenment and being in tune with the universe (like his 2003 series counterpart)

Unpopular opinion: I personally liked all three of the actors who got to voice Leo. Jason Biggs for introducing us to the character, Dominic Catrambone for the improvement of filling in for Jason between his last episode and Season 3, and Seth Green for fleshing out Leo's character.

Favorite relationship: Him and his brothers, Splinter, and Karai (platonic/sibling-like!!!)

Favorite headcanon: Leo has a collection of Space Heroes merch in his room (posters, comics, action figures/toys)

[koaticbutaverage4]

From Jason Biggs to Dominic Catrambone and finally Seth Green. I really think Leo matured ever since seth started playing the role of Leonardo. Beginning of season 3 I’m assuming.

[calliecat93]

Ranking the TMNT Voice Actors

(NOTE: I’m only counting the four animated series (OT, 2k3, 2k12, Rise) and am only doing it for the four Turtles. Rank from favorite to least favorite)

Leonardo

Michael Sinterniklass (2k3)

Cam Clarke (OT)

Seth Green (2k12 S3-5)

Jason Biggs (2k12 S1-S2E18)

Ben Schwartz (Rise)

Dominic Catrambone (2k12 S2E19-S2E26)

Raphael

Sean Astin (2k12)

Greg Abbey (2k3)

Omar Benson Miller (Rise)

Rob Paulsen (OT)

Donatello

Sam Riegel (2k3)

Rob Paulsen (2k12)

Barry Gordon (OT)

Josh Brener (Rise)

Michelangelo

Brandom Mychal Smith (Rise)

Greg Cipes (2k12)

Wayne Greyson (2k3)

Townsend Coleman (OT)

[2k18leo]

So I often think about 2012 Leo and the change between voice actors for him. Like I get stuff went down that made Jason Biggs not able to work with Nickelodeon anymore. Although I think Biggs’s performance fit very well with the Leonardo of the first two seasons.

(And idk I’m just gonna ignore Dominic Catrambone’s performance for when he voiced him 😬)

But when Seth Green came onto the show, his voice was much lower which seemed to work really well with an older Leo. Is it just the voice change or did you guys also think Leo was much more matured from season 3 onward ??

Like, I know when the news hit that Jason Biggs was leaving the show I, along with many others I’m sure, was upset because who could replace that voice? But they did. And even though Seth Green has such a different voice than Biggs, I still think his voice fit so well with the new and matured Leo.

I don’t know, I think about this a lot and sometimes I wonder what it would have been like if Jason Biggs stayed on the show, or if Seth Green had started from the beginning.

And again in the Bayverse movies, Knoxville wasn’t called back for the sequel and was replaced with Pete Ploszek. Is it honestly so difficult to find a perfect voice actor for our beloved blue-clad?

Either way, I have fallen in love with Ben Schwartz voice for Rottmnt Leo and if they even think of replacing him (or any other voice actor on that show) I will march up to Nickelodeon studios and RIOT

[indieyuugure]

leo’s always been my favourite too! if i could ask, what makes him your fav? i personally just love how the writers always put heavy emphasis on just how much leo cares for his family and how he’s willing to do anything for them no questions asked. i’ve also always been a sucker for the mom friend trope

Oh geez, idk. I guess if I really have to think about it, I suppose I feel like I see myself a lot in him. Like I’ve totally done (or do) some of the things he does XD Between his burden of responsibility and dorky nerd hero thing, I dunno I just really relate to it and love it!

I will say though, season 1 and 2 Leo is my favorite version of him. I think Seth Green isn’t as natural sounding when delivering Leo’s cringy hero lines and nerd ramblings, whereas Jason Biggs and Dominic Catrambone absolutely nailed it.

Now, don’t get me wrong! I do like Seth Green’s voice for Leonardo, I just think season 3 Leo onward he’s much more serious to match his much more serious voice, which I do like just not as much as silly Leo, if that makes any sense lol XD

I think I also really love his visual design. Believe it or not I really REALLY hated their visual style when I first started watching the show. After the second or third episode I actually gave up cause I hated it so much, and watched the first few episodes of 2003 instead. Although after seeing more tumblr posts of everyone swearing it’s the most amazing show ever, I decided to give it another shot. I think around episode 5 I started actually liking the way the turtles look, and now I think it’s actually my favorite design of Leonardo!

Also I probably have a bias because Leonardo has always been my favorite since I was little. I grew up on the original 1987 tv show and in that show I also loved Leonardo (I was a really cringy kid, actually scratch that I still AM a cringey kid) XD

[vivalatoons]

My Talk: TMNT 2012

Today, 6 years ago, a new TMNT series came into our lives again. Grab a slice of pizza and take a walk down memory lane in a TMNT 2012 reflection. Booyakasha!

During this time, I had finished watching all TMNT series (not including the live action one) and movies. There was one more series that I had to watch.

I admit, I was one of those people when I saw TMNT 2012. Yes, I complain that there was another TMNT reboot. I trashed and bashed it and stated this reboot is going to bomb hard. Understand this. I didn’t hear anything about TMNT 2012 till the year 2015. During that time, I saw bad reboots and Nickelodeon’s “great” cartoons. Seeing that this is a reboot on Nick, this was a recipe for disaster. People were saying that this reboot is better than Teen Titans Go, so I knew this version of TMNT wasn’t going to be horrible. What made me begin to watch the show was the cast of the Turtles and my Turtle nostalgia. I’ll get to that later, but I start to watch the CGI 2012 Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

January 11, 2016. I tried not to get attract to the show. I was excited to see these new Turtles, yet I had my doubts. After watching The Rise of the Turtles Part 1 and 2, I was instantly hook on these turtles. I hated myself for being against the reboot. These episodes were brilliant, and my Ninja Turtles love grow three sizes that day.

Flaws. Not every show is perfect, but there were some things that I didn’t enjoy in TMNT 2012. I didn’t like that some of the characters didn’t get their moment to shine at times. Some episodes were a waste of time, and could have been used to answer things TMNT hasn’t address. I also hate how the shippers would go full crazy when they see littlest of things when the ship does something. It got pretty annoying. My leader in blue would fall to the cliché of self sacrifice and going on crazy one man missions. I hated how Nickelodeon kept making random scheduling changes in season 5. This was a bad move in Nickelodeon, because fans missed something because of those random schedule changes and it was a marketing plan for PlayMates to sell those damn toys. Half of the season was pointless and the other half was awesome. Those flaws didn’t stop me from enjoying the series.

Characters. I don’t need to mention characters, but I’ll repeat myself again. Each TMNT series has the basic set of characters. There’s the Turtles, April, Casey, Splinter, Shredder, etc. Some characters are brought back from past TMNT series like Karai, Rocksteady, Bebop, Bishop, etc. In this series, there are some new characters like Tiger Claw, Fishface, Shinigami, and more. I love how the 2012 series have the Turtles be more like teenagers from other TMNT series. Some of the characters I find to be the best in this show.

Animation. 2012 TMNT uses CGI and a bit of 2D animation when it comes to flashbacks and storytelling. It’s weird at first. After awhile, it’s interesting to see. The CGI is incredible when the characters show emotions and action sequences. I’m impressed with the crew and their talents.

Voice cast. Oh yeah, my favorite part of this show. I said the voice cast is what made me decide to watch the show, and here’s why. The voice cast is outstanding and their voice director is Andrea Romano. This woman was a voice director for Batman: TAS, Teen Titans, Avatar: The Last Airbender, Voltron: Legendary Defender, etc. She’s a legend! Jason Biggs voiced Leo till season 2 episode 19, then Dominic Catrambone voiced Leo till the finale. Seth Green voiced Leonardo from season 3 till the end. Rob Paulsen, Sean Astin, and Greg Cipes voiced Donatello, Raphael, and Michelangelo. Hoon Lee voiced Splinter. Kevin Michael Richardson voiced Shredder. Mae Whitman and Josh Peck voiced April and Casey. Kelly Hu and Gwendoline Yeo voiced Karai and Shinigami. There’s a ton of great voice actors including Eric Bauza, Nolan North, Clancy Brown, Phil LaMarr, Fred Tatasciore, J.B Smoove, David Tennant, Keith David, Corey Feldman, Tom Kenny, Roger Smith Craig, Charlie Murphy, Ashely Johnson, Minae Noji, Mark Hamill, Zelda Williams, and the list goes on and on. I adore the voice cast so much. All of them did a spectacular job.

How is it different from other TMNT series. The CGI is what tells them apart. Hamato Yoshi once lived in Japan with his wife and daughter. Tragedy stuck, and Yoshi goes to New York. One day, he gets four baby turtles. He bumped into someone, following him. Yoshi witness the men meeting, and decided to attack him. Yoshi defeats them, but a canister of mutagen splashes on Yoshi and the Turtles. Yoshi become a rat, and the turtles grew into little turtle tots. April, Casey, and Karai are teenagers in this reboot. The Kraang are a species of talking brain like creatures. Some references from the 1987 and 2003 series show up in this show from characters to arcs. It manages to be silly and dark at times, it’s a nice blend.

Ciro Nieli, Joshua Sternin, and J. R. Ventimilia. These wonderful people helped developed this remake. I thank them for being the right people to be in charge of this project. With great people running a reboot, it leads to the following.

TMNT 2012 is a great remake and best example of doing a reboot right. People can argue all they want about this version of TMNT, but you have to admit this…there was a lot effort put into this show. This show proves to that not all reboots are terrible. This series didn’t dumb down for kids. It manages to be a show for all ages to enjoy. Animation isn’t lazy, same for voice acting and writing. Ok, the writing had dip down at times, but most of the time it’s good. There is some heavy stuff in the show like violence, death, and more death. I enjoy how this show broke some boundaries at times, that makes the show more interesting and groundbreaking.

I’m always impressed about how this series turned out. It has a unique spin in animation, wonderful voice cast, and a perfect example of a good reboot. It really makes me happy that this series will be a part of TMNT universe. I praise the 2012 Turtles for making a few changes and still holds. It’s still the Turtles we all know and love. I still miss TMNT 2012. What I will remember about this version of Turtles is the character growth that the Turtles have. I saw Leonardo from being a nervous leader who doesn’t want to let his team down. He would make decisions and be the best leader ever. Donatello would have fail at times from his creations or inventions. He improves to himself and it helps others. Raphael is still our hothead turtle, but he learns not to his anger consumes him. Michelangelo was seen as a dumb turtle who cared about pizza and made jokes. In the end, he shows the bad guys what’s he made of and he’s not a turtle you don’t want to mess with. These turtles has wowed me and they are the best ninjas in the city of New York.

[rainbow-filmnerd]

They had to have an explanation for it! Seth Green and Jason Biggs (and Dominic Catrambone) have different sounding voices. I felt like it was necessary to have the show to come up with a reason why he sounded different, and damage to the larynx made sense.

man tmnt 2012 was funny when they kept switching leos voice actor and they were like HE SOUNDS DIFFERENT BECAUSE HE ALMOST D I E D have some RESPECT

[bearballing]

danny katiana’s real name is rick zieff

YOU ARE NO LONGER AN ENIGMA MY GUY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!