#does this trope bring a great comfort to me or am I just autistic?

[v-i-r-i-d-i-a-n]

Me when- me when something non-human learns how to be human 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️

[heylabodega]

FINally some of you have asked me for romance novel recommendations. LFG. I mean full caveat can one really *recommend* romance novels? They are, largely, bad, and also extremely Antoni voice which exact regressive heteronormative trope fills you with giddy joy is something that can actually be so personal. But one can *describe* one’s *feelings* about romance novels. So.

Also, I don't really get what my deal is with romance novels? I mean I do, they're recognizable patterns and comforting, but like I am not particularly hornt up for the kissing scenes however I get indignant when they spend too much time on stuff that is not a kissing scene so truly no idea.

Without further ado, a list of romance novels that I have read/listened to audiobooks of and think you might also either enjoy or read while wondering 'am I enjoying this?'

Obvs Red, White, & Royal Blue, truly a gateway drug and also not bad by which I don't mean like 'ok' I mean like I said romance novels are mostly bad and this one isn't.

When I said I loved that one, Ellie's little sister recommended to me Boyfriend Material and it is *almost* good. Like it's real people in bonkers contrived plots. Mwah perfect. It also contains my favorite trope: fake dating, and a dynamic I love: one is just a huge selfish but sweet absolute mess of a person and the other seems very buttoned up but is very respectful and healthy but has a secret disfunction. Most things I like in romance novels are mysteriousbut this one is pathetically explicable ie that I am a selfish but sweet absolute mess of a person and am just WAITING for an orderly healthy person to find that irresistible. 

Lady Fortesque Steps Out ok let us enter the Regency Era of this list. This one is very fun. It has a recalcitrant duke, as regency romance novels are required by law to do. Robbie asked once why that was and we were like cause they're super royal but more abundant than princes. She is the cook in this quirky hotel that a bunch of people's Poor Relations start for extra money and that's so Unladylike but also Admirable. They spar, they stand too close, they kiss a bunch.

Bringing Down the Duke. The Duke seems mean but that's because he's actually Tortured for Mysterious yet Honorable Reasons. She's spunky and not appreciated at home and when you read the back of this book it might sound like it's going to be too about women's suffrage but DON'T worry it doesn't waste much time on that.

obviously I support women's suffrage but I'm here for kissing

The Wicked Duke ok this one I really really don't recommend and YET I read so much of it. I did eventually stop, I can't remember why, but for a while it had all the pleasant beats of "she's so beautiful, if only I were Of A Mind For Romance" "there's just something about him. definitely it's that I hate him for sure that's the only reason my like clit is tingling" and your classic green silk bringing out a character's eyes and setting her complexion off to perfection. So if you need something to read. Here's a duke and a spunky commoner.

I've been getting into the Bridgerton books. Which are...hmm...dicey about consent and sexual innocence and I'm not TOTALLY sure Julia Quinn understands what actions/words are truly unforgivable and which are fun sexy flirting however I do love them. They are chock full of people who maybe want to kill each other but definitely want to fuck, and women who aren't "classically beautiful" what with being too thin and having thick hair that's too dark for their light eyes and distractingly "lush" mouths. Mwah. Mwah mwah mwah.

Which brings us back to modern day with The Roommate in which I think the main character literally describes herself as not hot because her butt and boobs are too big for her waist or something. She ends up, through Circumstances, with a roommate who is a famous porn star--but don't worry, he's like progressive and won't do the hardcore stuff. He finds out a man has never given her an orgasm and is Bound By Honor to remedy the situation. This book was recommended as being particularly feminist/sex positive. I don't think it is that. What I think is *actually* admirable about it is how many times its main characters can have sex while still believing the other doesn't like them. An absolute pinnacle of the contrived if-anyone-actually-expressed-an-honest-feeling-there'd-be-no-plot plot genre.

The Right Swipe I actually really enjoyed. The writing is--I don't want to say bad but. You always know which adjectives will follow a noun, you know? But rival dating app creators who have great chemistry! WHAT a plot oh my GOD kudos to you ma'am.

The Kiss Quotient the heroine is autistic and hires an escort to teach her about sex stuff. Of course he is incredibly handsome and finds her uniquely beautiful and falls for her. As escorts do for their clients. This is, however, very charming and I will say, pretty titillating. 

One Day in December takes so long to get its main characters together--so long in the world of the story I mean, like a decade or something--that by the time it does you kind of hate them both. That said it's a fun book that you could definitely read and plausibly enjoy!

I am delighted to report that in Roomies they have to get married for visa reasons and then they want to kiss--but probably the other person didn't really mean any of the flirty things about wanting to kiss that they said, right? Unless-no--well--oh no we got drunk and kissed.

Ok that's what I have for you now, more to come, natch.

[onthevirgeofdestruction]

35 Q’s for Fanfic Writers

From this post

I’m having a shitty, rude alter-y, crap night so I’m just going to answer all of these to distract myself and focus and to not bother anybody just making my own post and putting it under the cut btw, notice to anyone not aware: since I’m moving I won’t likely be updating anything until I’m done doing so.

1. From one to five stars, how would you rate your writing?  (No downplaying yourself!) 3/5? Could use more editing and description and can be weirdly paced.

2. Why do you write fanfiction? Because it’s better than focusing on pain 24/7. 

3. What do you think makes your writing stand out from other works? I don’t seem to have a specific narrative voice that people recognize but I’m pretty proud of mostly organic dialogue. 

4. Are there any writers that inspire you? as a rule i never look up to anybody for inspiration but there’s some stuff in my ao3 bookmarks I fawn over.

5. What’s the fic you’re most proud of? Right now, none of them. It changes normally, anyway. If get too proud then I’d get my ass kicked by RSD if someone didn’t like it so it’s safer this way

6. What element of writing do you find comes easily? Dialogue. 

7. What element of writing do you struggle with most? Organic description, poetic language kind of stuff. I can paint a scene but I’m not so great with bring out out a feeling with description alone.

8. Which character(s) do you find easiest to write? Janus and Virgil are probably tied. They both have things I struggle with but I don’t have to go back and do much adjusting of language and tone with them. Though admittedly my Virgil is signifigantly more foul-mouthed than canon and I tend to prefer pre-AA feral asshole Virgil.

9. Which character(s) do you find most difficult to write? Patton. I write him the least, so people can probably tell. I love Patton, I really do, but it’s so hard to keep away from fanon Patton. 

10. What’s your favorite genre to write for? Angst w/ H/C obviously. Or if you’re talking about regular book genres, Fantasy. I fucking love fantasy world building.

11. Who or what do you find yourself writing about most? Trauma. I blame Daeram. As if Ayri isn’t a giant Angst Demon.

12. Tell us about a WIP you’re excited about. Slopes. I’m really into it. I’ve got three one shots running right now. Patrons can read the first part of the unnamed cat remus one, there’s also a coffeeshop au tropey nonsense one like eglantine & lycoris, but Slopes is addiction angst. Mmmmm. Virgil is addicted to coke and alcohol and will listening to his friends even be in time? Who knows, especially not me, but there’s already over 30k. 

13. First fandom you ever wrote for? InuYasha. Or was it Harry Potter? Or shit, The Blue Sword? Fuck, I’ve been writing for a long time, I really have no idea.

14. What’s your favorite fandom to write for? Sanders Sides. The characters are the perfect dynamic for writing since they exist in balance of each other and the popular, easy to project on archetypes featured are incredibly fun to do basically any scenario with.

15. What’s the weirdest fandom you’ve ever written for? Weird storywise? Kingdom Hearts? I can’t even follow the plot anymore. Weird Fandomwise? Sanders Sides. Its simultainiously the fluffiest and angstiest nonsense at the same time.

16. Any guilty pleasure trope(s)? Vampires. Gay ones. Gay Vampires. I also love calm tol and angy smol.

17. A trope you’ll never, ever write for. Any tropes that normalize incredibly toxic behaviour or tropes that are inherantly ableist, but I can’t think of any.

18. Wildest fic you’ve ever written? Incorrigible continues to be complete nonsense.

19. Do you prefer canon-compliant, AUs, or something in-between? AUs. I mean closest I even have is canon-divergence other than a single short.

20. Gen fic or shippy stuff? I like it when there is gay nonsense along with a plot that is treated as more important than the relationship the most. But I like both. There’s more shippy stuff in tss so i read more shipping action by default.

21. Favorite pairing to write for? (platonic or romantic!) Anxceit/Sleepxiety, but in general, give me darksides or give me death/j

22. Do you listen to anything while you write? Almost everything I write has a special playlist I listen to to help me write it, but otherwise I listen to my Nyan playlist, an alter is picking the tunes, or a voidfam playlist. I never have music off. When my internet is down I just listen to the songs I own or Anxiety’s theme on loop.

23. Do you prefer prompts and challenges, or completely independent ideas? I’m fine with all of them. I love working with prompts but I tend to deviate. And I’ve never done a challenge since I can’t do deadlines and bad things happen bingo never sent me a card and I applied three times.

24. One-shots or multi-chaptered works? I am generally multi-chaptered stuff, but I’ve been working on a few one-shots lately that are much longer than most one shots.

25. Have you ever daydreamed about side adventures/spin-offs from your fic? Tell us about them! I was originally thinking of doing some little 13-year-old Dreaming!Roman (y’know, the one with a job) shorts but it turns out I just had an alter of that little bastard and that’s why I inexplicably know more about him then I ever even considered. I still might do them after Dreaming is done. But that’s paced so slowly who knows when that might happen. Otherwise I put stuff in my notes and just do shorts of it if I’m like “oh you know what’s cool???” but since I can’t daydream maybe this question doesn’t apply to me.

26. Is there anything you’ve wanted to write, but you’ve been too scared to try? I want to do more autism stuff, and I’ve had it demanded a few times, but I’m scared of being that explict about it for some reason. Possibly because I might be, possibly because I’m scared of doing it wrong even though I’ve accidentally coded multiple characters autistic. I’m scared of explictly tagging them as such, too. 

27. What’s the nicest comment you’ve ever received? That I can remember off the top of my head? I’m going with one from @a-genz-with-trauma-and-kins. It really helped me out and was just so kind and literally the best christmas gift I got in 2020. 

28. How well do you handle criticism when it comes to your writing? I can handle it alright but Daeram is a little fucking pissbaby about it. Constructive criticism helps people get better, so I appreciate it. I can’t handle critism that is incomplete, though. “i just don’t get it” or “I don’t know I don’t like it” kind of things. If I can’t understand the why to fix it then things get out of control. And then I spiral and RSD for like four days minimum. If it came from an anon or a troll, too, It might not bother me for as long. Things that are just like “this is shit and you should feel bad” just make me laugh. Couldn’t even bother to read it long enough to insult me proper? I don’t care.

29. Have you ever gone outside of your comfort zone for a fic? How did it turn out? I have a few times. Mostly in shorts and prompts, I think. I think they turned out okay. They’re not particularly inspired or anything.

30. Tooth-rotting fluff or merciless angst? Depends on my mood. Am I triggered? give me the fluff. Am I vibin? Angst. 

31. Do you have any OCs? Tell us about them! Fuck, fam, no, I can’t, I have so many. I have multiple original stories and some of them have very large casts and like holy fuck. Or do you mean in Sanders Sides fandom? Um, Morgan and Thorn in PD. The lesbian and her himbo dynamic. I love them. They’re dorks. Morgan is strong person with sharp tongue and soft romantic heart and Thorn is just so kind and so dumb and so exciteable he’s like a puppy. They were just filler characters and I got attached to them. Felton even gets redemption for being an ass later in PD, like oof i never intended to include so much OC content, especially for names I just picked randomly. 

32. Summarize a random fic of yours in 10 words or less. nope I’m doing all of them because these are fun plea for my new self: 2 gay vampires, 4 humans, 1 braincell dreaming while I wake: trauma child needs therapy and so do you break: big oof, oh dragons, oh why, go virgil go rebuild: virgil is so not okay there’s more virgil to deal painful death: gay teens drink themselves into a new religion stargazing: whoops we didn’t realize people actually cared whole castle: everyone will throw down for kid!patton, even you incorrigible: found family with a shot of psychological horror and crack dangerous instincts: wholesome crime syndacite action  slopes: addict gets mugged and thinks that’s just fine with him conflagration: logan avoids everything ever like a champ cat!remus: bored fae shifts gay pining from one person to another  caffeine cyptids: caffinated gay panic goes faster than regular gay panic eglantine & lycoris: more tropes than you can toss a shoe at storytime: overpowered virgil also overreacts literally always

33. Is there anything you wish your audience knew about your writing or writing process? an alter and I write together and I have absolutely no idea what’s going to happen, what I’m writing about, or even what year it is. I often don’t even remember what I wrote. There’s no outline. I have an idea and I pick things at random for it. There’s just notes and an evil gleam in a demon’s eye. The only reason I know more than readers is because I take a long time to edit and some of these stories have fucking alters up in my head who can tell me things. Daeram tells me nothing. The writing demon supposedly has all this knowledge but I have absolutely no clue because he does not talk to me, he just fronts and slams out 9k in a few hours or we cofront to write and I’m like “oh no she didn’t” while typing 

34. Copy and paste an excerpt you’re particularly fond of. i’m fond of the entire painful death series and I tried to find something I really liked without spoilers in stargazing and I couldn’t so here’s a random thing from incorrigble: “So, what do you do with your friends?” Patton continued on with a megawatt smile. “Grand larceny,” Virgil deadpanned and glared at Patton, who was taken aback. Remy and Andy just broke out laughing while Virgil tentatively sipped his still-too-hot-cocoa. 

35. Ramble about any fic-related thing you want!  slopes my dudes slopes i have learned so much about cocaine! like wow! I thought for a minute it was going to end with MCD around 30k but it swtiched from whump to hurt/comfort and I still don’t know if it’s going to be MCD but look at that funky little coke/alcohol addict go, it’s a medical wonder he’s alive! It’s not like there’s what seems to be a little talked about interaction between alcohol and cocaine that causes a toxic chemical to build up in the liver which can result in liver failure and sudden death at basically any moment! Which is part of why it may result in MCD but this time no ghosts! maybe it’ll be h/c with whump elements or maybe it’ll be whump with h/c elements we can’t know for sure

[cullinankatsudon]

Let’s get super damn real about representation/education and coded protection

So this is a series of asks I just got, which is actually one ask, which I can’t answer publicly without only answering one, so I just screenshot the whole mess and now I’m “answering” by using this as a jumping off point and going from here. And when I say GOING I mean fucking going, because JFC do I have some goddamned thoughts. There is so much to unpack here, both the stuff said and the stuff which is unsaid, which the asker may or may not have been thinking, but I know other people are so I’m just going to say it and everyone can either listen or leave. I don’t really care. The title of the blog is Just Here For The Ships and it is true. Please skip this and go back to the pics of Victuuri being awesome if you like.

I am not 24. I am 44. I am the author to over 25 published novels of LGBTQIA romance, many of which have won awards and have been translated into...I’ve lost count of the languages. Like, five? Lots. I’m not Big Shit but I’m not some peon who doesn’t know what she’s talking about. I write about sex, though, and sensuality. I have written an asexual romance, and BDSM romances, and moderately sexual romances, and a romance with an autistic hero, several with heroes with anxiety/depression, May/December relationships, and a great number of new adult novels, which is basically the next step away from young adult, and often features 18yos so basically I write, often, teenagers having sex. And as I have said, I am 44, so I guess from the perspective of a 24 year old I am an ancient old creaky person perving like fuck. But we will cover this more in a moment.

I am also by identification a queer woman. No one has any right to that information whatsoever, it is none of your business. But I am public about it and I volunteer it for a specific reason which I will also underline later in this conversation. Now to the answer to the ask.

The incredibly short answer to this ask is, if you don’t like what other people are doing, don’t look at it. Don’t read their shit, don’t read their blogs, don’t engage. I keep quoting @fencer-x in this discussion because her opinions and mine align, and I respect her way of dealing with frustrating topics: she blocks people when she knows their views and hers clash and interactions with them will only make her angry/frustrated. My god, what an adult reaction. She doesn’t chase people down and harass them (not adult). She simply says, “This will make me ranty. I’m going to end this before it can start and go on with my happy ways.” Incredibly proactive because she has high-volume interaction on Tumblr.

But this ask isn’t a harassment, it’s an honest ask: why would an adult want to read about two teenagers having sex. I find it a frustrating ask, but I’ll honor it because I’m in a waiting-for-email loop and anyway, I’ve been seeing this go by my feed for months, Fencer keeps hammering at it and why should she have to keep saying the same thing? I’ll take an axe swing for the team. Just be ready because I am here with some fucking receipts.

Answer A: Assuming that adults people are reading about teenagers having sex because they are getting off is incredibly juvenile and reveals shallowness of comprehension of literature in general.

I don’t have hard sales on YA romance in front of me, but I’m a member of Romance Writers of America and could probably get it pretty quickly with a few emails; what I do know is that YA romance is doing fine, more than, and it’s not being read by only teens and whatever magical cut off is considered not-gross in legal adulthood. I don’t have any comprehension over what moment that is, when an adult human becomes old enough and now reading about teenagers is gross--is it simply always someone younger? Am I not allowed to read about thirty-year-olds fucking?--but whatever this is, I don’t care, because I don’t subscribe to it, largely because I know that readers of romance in general but especially young adult romance are rarely reading for sex alone. There are some people, yes. There’s nothing wrong with those choices, but they’re rare in any event, and we’re not talking about them yet. 

My new adult novels, however, while they are read by some college age people and some high school students, are largely read by adults, many of them my age or older. For the queer identifying reader especially, the books featuring young protagonists starting out in life often move them to write me passionate letters which in turn make me cry. But the heterosexual readers will often feel just as strongly. 

Why? Because it will possibly surprise (or depress?) a number of twenty somethings to discover that when people hit their thirties or especially forties/fifties, they look back at their twenties/youth and feel nostalgia, regret, and sadness over possibilities lost, time slipped away, and in the case of many women and queer youth, opportunities never granted. For many bi/pan people in particular of my generation, we quietly slipped into a heteronormative path because it seemed like the only choice, and while we may have made happy marriages, there are parts of our selves which never got to see the light of day, and that hurts. These books, these explorations, are ways to have those moments. 

Writing fiction is an even more empowering way to explore those same themes--and not everyone wants the hell of chasing down a publishing career, so fan fiction is a nice alternative. 

Perhaps you’re about to say, “But Heidi, those straight women are FETISHIZING!!!!!!!!” Oh, sure, maybe some are? I don’t know. I imagine you’d like to point them out to me? I suspect you have a list prepared. I bet you know who alllll those bitches are, eh?

Let me tell you a story. 

In the publishing world, people do the same thing. Readers and published authors alike loooove to play that game, imagining who is entitled to do what, and every so often someone decides to go on a witch hunt. Now sometimes there are truly people who have been deceiving others and the betrayals are horrible to see unfold, and they always break the community. And then sometimes--several times in my tenure--I have watched people go after “straight” women who have “dared” to step wrongly in queer romance...and all the while I have known that these women are in fact not straight, but rather are simply not out. I have done what I can to help, but there isn’t much to do, except that I keep a list--a real list--of the people carrying torches and I do not engage, do not highlight, do not give oxygen in any form, ever. So be very careful when you make your judgments of shippers FETISHIZING!!!!!!!! because you might be completely wrong, even if the bio on that person’s blog says they’re straight. If you don’t like what someone is doing, you should probably take Fencer’s approach and simply block them.

One of the reasons I am out--though only one--is because it is more uncomfortable for me to think about being jumped by assholes from my own team wanting to accuse me of appropriation than it is being accosted by an antigay bigot. I would like you to think about that for a long time before you ever approach someone about being allegedly straight.

But even the straight shippers have plenty of agency to enjoy writing about teenagers having a relationship which may include sex. That brings us to the next answer, though.

Answer B: women have a lot of unpacking to do in this damn world about sex, and in nearly every culture they are saying, over and over, romance between male same sex pairings helps them do this work. Including young pairings.

This answer comes with a ton of controversy and has taken me eight years of being published to come up with, and my way of speaking to it is ever evolving. While it is true that I have many gay male readers and nonbinary readers for my books which are largely about gay males falling in love, I also have many female readers of all orientation, though a large chunk of those are straight. This phenomenon has been the butt of jokes and point of ire depending on who is writing the article or asking me questions over my years as an author. 

This is a whole other essay, gnarly and deep, but the main gist is that women’s sexuality is so fraught and politicized that many women--worldwide, across cultures--feel more comfortable exploring issues about sexuality when the pairing is between two men than a woman and a man or two women. Now: personally, I want us to move beyond this and evolve, to move to two women as well as two men, to add in some heterosexual pairings but have the man be different as part of a trope--but we aren’t there yet, clearly, for so many reasons.  I think it’s important we keep pushing and trying, but it’s going to have to evolve there, not be shamed there or rammed there. 

We have a patriarchal culture; it’s no surprise that to undo this women pit two men against one another and attempt to undo the power structure by domesticating it, by rewriting it (literally), by remixing it on their own terms. Now--speaking as a queer woman, I do think we must, especially when writing gay men, be respectful and be aware we are writing about a marginalized group. However, this is a marginalized group writing about a marginalized group--women/gay men--and especially if the pairing is about white men, it’s an even power match. Gay white men in fact can seize more power than white women, if they want it--they must deny their orientation, but the choice is there.

It’s true that women writing about gay men can and have been sloppy, that descent into rape fantasy and feminization harm the relationship between gay men and women of any orientation. It’s also true that there are gay men quietly reading those same tropes the same way women in the 70s and 80s read rape fantasy and rescue fantasy in romance as part of their own evolution to claiming power (and yes, that is a thing). 

But wait, Heidi, you say, what the hell does this have to do with teenagers having sex?

Plenty. 

Because we’re talking specifically about Otayuri, yes? Yurio having sex with Otabek, who is not an adult, but is for some reason to some people, and we’re talking about adults reading about this. They are a gay pairing. And unlike Victuuri, they are not canon, not yet, maybe not ever, and this is very important right now, because there is more power in a non canon ship when you are writing them yourself, because you are creating the link. When you write Victuuri you’re celebrating a couple the creators literally put rings on. When you write Sterek or Sheith or anyone else who is not in their actual fictional show a couple, and when you are taking straight men and queering them up in a pairing, you are claiming power. I don’t care what your orientation is. You are taking a big dildo and aiming at the patriarchal system of the world through fiction and you are saying, “I am going to fuck with this, literally.”

To do that with young men is another statement on top of that. I don’t know, do people bitch about Sterek? Are there people freaking out about TEEN WOLF, TEEN Sterek and the older guy, the mentor, the adult graduate jailbaiter who gets shipped with him? I don’t have a problem with it at all, but if you want to go legally by the show, those are the terms. Why do people do it? Because there’s something in that power play that speaks to them. Something specific about Styles, who appears weak and young and vulnerable, and Derek, who is older and powerful but has a vulnerable side. 

Derek is the patriarchy, and Styles is how you bring him down. It’s more complicated than that, nobody thinks like that, but if you want to get deep as fuck with it, and I do, that’s what’s happening, and why it’s important. Styles is a kid, technically. As an actor I get that he’s an adult. Maybe that’s why there’s no freak out?

Okay let’s go to Sheith. Shiro is 24 and Keith is 18. Legit no legal issues here, plus they’re in space and in the future, but still youth is on board, and we have an age difference. Age differences are powerful. May/December is a thing and they’re heady in gay romance. Boy do people love the idea of a younger man bringing an older man to heel through love. This is not May/December, 24/18, but that age gap is enough to make people feel the pull, and the power dynamic is another. Shiro is the leader. Patriarchy. Keith is the feisty underling. You want to know why that ship is hot? That right there. Staid patriarchy needing feisty youngling to fuck it from underneath and get it to unlace.

You want to know why gay romance is so alluring, why people love gay ships, especially with straight characters? Because we are so goddamned desperate to change our culture and it won’t change and we don’t know how to do it and we feel like we have no power, and materially we don’t have a ton, but what we do have are these stories and a few hours a night to read or write subversive literature.

So I did everyone but Yurio. Let’s talk about Yuri P. Yurio is fifteen, a baby, a precious baby. He is not a baby. He tells you over and over he is an ice tiger. He got an upgrade in the BD where he explained how he wanted to dress himself and do his own music and he got his friend boyfriend to help him get dressed and pick a song and choreograph a new skate overnight, and then when he saw Victuuri was going to one-up him he came up with something to top them on the fly and it was hot and sexual and not at all contrived. The boy bled sex all over the ice, and if he had skated that routine up against Eros and Chris’s ass grab he would have won the competition. The boy is not a boy, he’s a young man and he is aware of his sexuality. He gets to play with it and claim it.

And people get to play with it too. It is a real thing, it is there, and it is ripe for the exploration. It is valid and on the table. Which brings us to the last answer (except there are about fifty more, I’m just only going to give one more because this is long as fuck and I have a family and I”m getting bored of this)

Answer C: Sex is fabulous and it is okay to like sex (and okay to not like sex)

Okay at the moment I am answering this in the theoretical, as a hysterectomy and PTSD over a past trauma regarding sex and way too much work-related stress have made the actual having of sex not something I’m interested in personally, but theoretically I find sex to be a wonderful, beautiful thing, and I’m currently going to therapy once a week to get my shit straight so that someday I can have it again because I do like it a lot and I believe in the power and beauty of sex and everyone’s right to have it and enjoy it (or not) in whatever way that pleases them so long as it is safe, sane, and consensual. I’ve written books that open with a blow job (true story) and books that are described as about “fisting cowboys full of feels” and also books with nothing more than two kisses and make out sessions holding hands and books where the sex is awkward and books where the sex mostly fades to black and everything in between. 

This includes sex by and for teens, because they have it. It’s okay for them to have it and it’s okay for me to read about it (and watch shows where they have it) and find it hot if it is because there is not an age limit where this happens. It’s an amazing thing, but I read books and find things hot or funny or sexy or scary or happy or sad and I don’t feel they are happening to me personally. I don’t feel that I am now that person. I don’t think that I am entitled to that character’s life, and I don’t mistake that I am suddenly that age. 

Nobody, by the way, would ever say this of someone about a horror novel for teens, or anything else for teens, and amazingly, nobody would ever and has ever said this about men reading fucking Lolita, a “literature” book about a goddamned girl and the pedophile who ogled her. Well, women. But people usually tell them to shut up because literature. Nobody says this to Woody Allen or the other men who have done all kinds of nasty shit. We are talking here, in a coded way, about “older” women reading about young men having sex. Because that’s a dirty act.

It is not. I am not old. I am older, yes, and so much wiser, and I can argue like this all damn day. 

But I might not do it every day because I also have a lot of work to do. Really, to sum it up: if you don’t like it, don’t look at it. Absolutely nobody on here is the morality police and nobody is entitled to protect anyone. The odds are really good you’re fucking up and hurting a lot of people if you try.

Just be here for the ships. Your ships. And everything will be fine.

[thoughtsnocontext]

I have some thoughts, but I suppose I need to give some context first, as well as some disclaimers. Disclaimers first: I genuinely think friends at the table is a great podcast and have been very touched by it. I am only writing this because I care so much about it. I also understand that there are people who will disagree with me and of course I respect that, but I also don't think anyone will be able to change my mind about this.

1. I've listened chronologically and reached episode 36 of Partizan and am honestly not sure I can continue to listen anymore.

2. About 6 months ago I asked if there are any canonical or even just headcanons of autistic characters in fatt in the official fan discord server. The short answer was no. The long answer was... a lot and I have been carrying a bad taste in my mouth since. If you search the server for "autistic" you can probably find the whole conversation. I will admit that I was having a bad day that day, and really not prepared for the responses I got but I remember that I tried my best to understand the other's positions.

3. I am myself autistic and have during the last months written a thesis project on autism, what it is, why and how it fits in the larger context of humanity. What became very clear is that although autism is a psychiatric diagnosis, the traits associated with autism exist within a much larger part of the population, are very stigmatized and also part of human diversity. I really recommend anyone who is not familiar with neurodiversity to read up on it.

4. I'm bringing this here in hopes of getting input from other autistic/neurodivergent fans and in case anyone here has listened further than me and could tell me if this is something they acknowledge in later episodes of the podcast.

So, what about the autistic representation in f@tt? Supposedly there is none, and the answer for why I got from Austin was that he doesnt feel comfortable representing a specific diagnosis without knowing more about it and haven't had time/energy etc to do that research, but also isn't against ever doing it. Fair, one person can't represent everyone and obviously there is a lot going on. My position at the time was that I would rather see them try than not have any autistic people represented at all. Others disagreed and would rather that they didn't risk doing bad representation. Also a fair point. My position now though is that they have already fucked up. Representation isn't only the labels announced for a character, especially when it comes to something that is largely defined by behaviour. An example of autistic representation done poorly is Sheldon from the big bang theory. He is basically a charicature of the autistic archetype, but canonically he has specifically not been diagnosed even though he's been "tested" several times. Does this erase the fact that his traits are autistic? Does this erase the fact that fans of the show tell autistic people that they are "just like Sheldon"? No. And the same goes for at least two characters in Partizan, which neatly fit into the stereotype of autistic traits only being represented by robots.

I'll start with Figure A. Tbh I dont remember too much of this character, but I do remember that they were described as having different ways from most to interpret sensory input. This is also common in autistic people. I personally can experience smell, sound and visual stimuli much more intensely than the average person and it can be both wonderful and overwhelming. Apparently, this is a robotic trait.

The other character is Thisbe. And I'm sad to say that I've started to hate her existence in this podcast. Thisbes characterisation, although not intended to be representative of autistic people, is the closest thing in partizan to resemble an autistic person - and not in a good way. If the only character being asked if they could be autistic is a robot, that just means that the same old tropes are being used. I have other issues with how her autistic traits go together with other aspects of her personality, but that is a whole other layer.

I don't think it's right to take autistic traits, only present them in robots and then say that you're not hurting autistic people because you never intended the robots to be autistic and never put that label on them. That isn't how it works. And I do know that I'm not alone in feeling like the lack of human autistic characters makes it feel like people like me just don't exist in these worlds. And honestly, the robots would be fine if there were also humans having those traits sometimes. They don't have to be major characters, but like... I feel like I shouldn't have to explain to this community how this is really really harmful. I also feel like if you're "weird" enough it's apparently okay to be misrepresented, invisible and alienated even in a community that is supposed to be welcoming specifically for multiply marginalised people.

Short addition: I recently found out Keith has adhd, and for me that explains why his characters are the only ones I've felt some kind of neurodivergent representation in. That doesn't take away the harm in how autistic traits are portrayed though.

Tl;dr Friends at the table is contributing to harmful stereotypes about autism and apropriating autistic traits to flavor robot characters. Choosing to remain ignorant and not specifically representing autistic characters does not lead to less hurt, because you are more likely to make the mistakes unkowingly.

[i-just-really-like-ladies]

Hey op, I saw your post about discovering you were autistic. Something similar is happening to me except I haven't gone for a diagnosis yet. Would it be okay for you to talk about how you knew?

For me there are things that...fit really well, that hit very close to home, but others not so, so Im not sure if whatever it is that I've got (because clearly, something is there.) I'm not very sure if the autistic spectrum can be so wide as for me to be included in it.

Any tips?

Of course, happy to help.

For me there were three kind of bigger indicators.

First, and after discussing this one with my therapist, it seems to be very consistent across autistic people: I've always felt different. Like I knew that I was at the very least slightly off in comparison to other people. (Please excuse the phrasing, I couldn't think of another way to put it properly).

Second, linked with the first: I have always experienced this thing I like to describe as 'not feeling like a real person'. All that really means is that I see the way other people are out laughing boldly with friends or joking or just straight up experiencing the world, and I think "man, I wish I could be a real person." And it always made me sad because I was consciously realising that I cannot and do not experience the world in the same way most neurotypical people do. It was just this huge feeling of otherness. (My therapist indicated that this is very common)

Third: masking. Now, this one made me feel bad for a really long time because I had no clue what was going on until my ex-girlfriend was like "oh, yeah, that's masking." For me, one of the biggest ways I mask is to copy mannerisms and speech patterns of people I'm around. I do it the most when I really like someone (friend like or romantically) or when a person makes me so extremely uncomfortable that I guess my brain is like "you need to mimic them for safety reasons." The reason this one bothered me so much is that I always felt like I just couldn't have my own personality, why was I always copying other people, surely they've all noticed and think I'm a fucking weirdo. It was very upsetting until I learned it was masking. Finding that out has helped me to accept it when I do it, even though I am trying to mask less.

So, those are the big three. There are lots of other minor things. I have ocd, which very commonly goes hand in hand with Autism. I got that need for rigid schedule and following the same patterns almost daily (slight variations are okay, but people planning stuff and not telling me when I've already set up my personal schedule for the day in my head, big no no). I eat the same foods on repeat and have an extremely difficult time changing it up. When I like food or dislike it, the primary reason is texture. (My fiance actually pointed this one out. Apparently I talk about the texture of food a ton).

I'm sure you've probably come across information about the emotionality of Autistic people. The common trope is that we are very emotionless. However, thats not accurate at all. There are two main big categories of where we can fall: tending to not feel emotions very strongly (the trope), and feeling emotions very intensely, more intensely than neurotypical society says is appropriate 🙄. I fall into this category, and I hate it because I have spent so much time trying to just not feel my emotions because they are so intense and my expression of them is 'inappropriate' that it has caused a great many mental health issues for me. So the eye roll face is because I think that the appropriate expression of emotion dictated by most of society is stupid. Along with this one, I have a hard time verbalizing and verbally identifying how I am feeling. As a result, I tend to just tell people I am upset. My therapist says this is somewhat common amongst Autistic individuals. I cannot recall the reasoning she gave for it being common, but I am including it because it was brought up in the process of discussing all this.

I also have this huge tendency to overexplain my reasons for things I've done or said because I do not want to be misunderstood/I have experienced misunderstanding so many times that I learned to do this at some point (I consider this to be part of my masking). This one seems to be pretty common, at least from tiktok. I've seen a lot of Autistic people on tiktok mention it.

Side note in relation to this but still relevant to the post imo, I hate that society tends to think you are lying the more detail you provide. I have a tendency to find all details absolutely vital. So when telling someone about what happened in a situation, I relay as much information as I can. Apparently, that means you are lying. It frustrates me a lot.

In that same vein, another thing my therapist said is fairly common: many Autistic people like to ask why continuously. Not as in just repeating "why," but rather that someone will say "I don't know" or provide an answer, but we often are still seeking a further reason. I've done this my entire life, and booooy does it aggravate people. For me it is just that I want to know the reasoning behind things. I want to know as much information as possible about the topic, and, as mentioned above, I tend to find every single detail absolutely important. That just leads to continuously asking why.

So another one for me, of which I am unsure the commonality: I have a very difficult time maintaining friendships unless I see someone most days of the week. I would say about 5 out of the 7 makes it the easiest for me, but it has worked out on less than that, rarely. The reason for this is that I forget to talk to people when I cannot physically see them. I mean, I just don't think about it for weeks on end. Then I will for a second, but won't message them because I'm doing something, and then forget about it again for ages. Part of this is that I prefer in person communication because I can try to read people's body language and facial expressions. The other part is tone of voice is more clear in person than via text. Now, this one bothered me when I was trying to figure out if I was autistic because it is common for Autistic people to not recognise facial cues and body language the same way as neurotypical people. Turns out, according to my testing results paperwork, i just have a higher ability to recognise facial expressions than most people diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder. So, I just vary a bit from the average.

Within this same vein is the commonly known 'eye contact issue'. The stereotype is that we cannot and do not make eye contact. This is so false. Many Autistic people do not make eye contact well, yes, but not all. For example, I do. I told one of my brothers I was getting tested for Autism and his response was, and I quote literally here, "I don't think you're Autistic because you make eye contact." What he didn't know is the reason why I make eye contact. I do it because I was taught repeatedly that it is how you show people you are listening. So, basically, I'm masking when I make eye contact because I'm solely doing it to show someone I am listening to them. In fact, 😆 I commonly am sitting there telling myself to make eye contact in order to indicate that I am present and interested in what the other person is saying. I also have a harder time masking this way when attempting to talk about things that are important and emotionally relevant to me. In therapy, I rarely make eye contact with my therapist because it is so difficult to talk about things in general that I cannot also make eye contact. Lastly, for this one, the more comfortable I am with someone, the less I make eye contact with them. My fiance, for example, not very common at all that I do it.

There is also the very common special interests phenomenon. The media tends to show this as a math or science thing, but it really isn't. I follow one tiktoker whose special interest is bugs and, I believe, art. I highly recommend her. Her handle is: soundoftheforest. For me, it's language/linguistics and ancient egypt, Greece and Rome. Really, I'd say ancient anywhere history, but those are the big three. Egypt has been my longest interest, besides language. I actually remember the moment I was like "this is it for life." I was 7 and had finished my library books but was bored at daycare. So I went to the book shelf and picked up a book about King Tut. It was the page I read about the day Howard Carter found the tomb. And I just knew me and Ancient Egypt were meant to be forever. As for language, I've literally always been fascinated by it. I started speaking very early and with more complex words than is usual. And I just continued to love language from there. I ended up studying ancient Greek and Latin in college. Also, I info dump about these all the time, almost anytime I possibly can because they're so fucking cool. 😁

Another side note, it is common for Autistic individuals to have delays in speaking, I just did not. It is not something required for the diagnosis. It is just very common.

This one is a little bit weird, and might just be a me thing, but I've discussed it with my therapist. She indicated that it very much aligns with Autism. I cannot, or can but with extreme apprehension and knowledge that I will leave depressed; I simply cannot go into buildings of certain lighting, age, and design. It seems to be buildings that look and/or feel like they were built in the 1960s or 1970s. We haven't really figured out why that is a thing, but it is. I once didn't bother to finish applying for a job to teach Latin that I'd basically been guaranteed so long as I sent in the app because when I went for the interview I saw the building and knew I could not teach there, even part time, because the building would depress me constantly. It's a weird one, but if you have anything at all where you just cannot do it because you know it will affect you like this, I'd bring it up in discussing potentially being Autistic.

I nearly forgot to mention this one, but you've probably heard about the sensory issues that many Autistic people deal with. I have some with touching things, but it is less common an issue for me than my sound sensitivity issues. I am very sensitive to sound. If I had to give a 4th big reason, this would be it because I get overstimulated and overwhelmed by sound multiple times a day. Its rough. If you also have this issue, I cannot recommend enough noise cancelling headphones and chew stim toys when you don't have your headphones. It's really helpful.

This last one I'm going to mention is something that I think I do just to help prevent burnout from masking, but is also part of me specifically. I am an introvert. So that plays a role in this. I spend the vast majority of my time completely by myself. I do mean even when at home with my fiance. We are often in different rooms. I have no problem with it. It doesn't feel like it is bad for our relationship, thankfully. I just prefer to be alone most of the time. The more time I spend around people, the more time afterwards I need alone. That is partially my introvertedness but also me needing to because I am socially exhausted from masking and trying to read all the social cues and not make weird errors when in social settings 😳, which I do a lot. I think I just default to spending time by myself when I am not required to engage with people in order to ensure that I can later. Plus, in discussing this one with my therapist, we concluded that I do this at least in part to prevent burnout and overstimulation.

As for the testing itself. I discussed this with my therapist for a while when waiting to get tested, and by the time I did get tested, I had a nice long list of stuff to bring up. I would definitely recommend compiling a list of the symptoms/signs you feel are indicative for yourself. It was very quick after I first brought it up in therapy that I decided I needed the official diagnosis for myself. So my therapist gave me recommendations of who to see. I also looked myself because the recommended people were so booked they couldn't even schedule further out. Once I got it scheduled, I had to wait like 3 months for the appointments. So, if you are seeking the official diagnosis, don't give up because it's a long wait. From what I've seen others saying, it's pretty common to have to wait a bit to be seen.

There were 3 appointments, an intake, a testing, and a feedback appointment. The intake appointment involved me talking to the doctor about my experiences and why I thought I might be autistic. She asked me a few questions about the more commonly known signs of autism if I did not mention them. The testing appointment took about 4 hours and involved a self report personality assessment, several verbal and memory activities, a teaching activity, two story telling/creating activities, and (the part I thought was most difficult) an activity in which I had to identify the emotion being expressed by just the eye and eyebrow area of black and white photos of people. I also had a take home assessment for someone who knew me really well. It was related to executive functioning abilities and emotional regulation abilities. I cannot speak on the feedback appointment because of technical issues resulting in not actually having that appointment. I have rescheduled it and will be doing that later this month.

If you have anything more specific you want to ask me about, please do. I am happy to answer.