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mihrunnisasultans · 3 years ago

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Süleyman is such a piece of shit, so hypocritical towards everyone! He is so judgmental of others yet treats people who truly love him horribly. And bad people around him stay and get rewarded for being worst. You are right, how can Rüstem be forgiven all the time, while Ibrahim was treated so awfully? Bullshit

Ah idk whether it’s the same Anon or two, but will just answer (and add some stuff on topic) jointly.

Yep and it’s clear foreshadowing that Ibrahim will be the one to come for him at his deathbed (how some souls will find way to each other only at the end of their lif!).

The quote was from Victory of Mohács and Great Expeditions documentary,I love it so much because it discusses not only the military issues, but also how Mohács was such a big moment in MC Suleiman’s character arc. They all praise Meral’s writing here and I have to agree, it was truly so well done. Dark side to victory that is very conducive to Suleiman’s gradual descent into arrogance, God complex and paranoia.

Of course he already started the show with trauma that gets revealed gradually in flashbacks later and he always displayed faults, especially concerning extreme insensitivity towards certain people in less privileged positions that him, particularly Mahidevran, but not only: he could go on how love is so beautiful because Hürrem wants to be Muslim for him in front of Ibrahim, who as convert wants to literally combust while hearing Suleiman talk about such matters so lightly, especially since he suspects that Hurrem most likely asked for conversion because she’s become aware that if she wants to truly achieve anything there (and we know it’s true, she’s not even aware she’s in love with Suly yet and still keeps her cross), she must be Muslim.. It just strikes a cord with him already (not that he blames her, but Suleiman’s... attitude). Suleiman also always blames Mahidevran for hurting and disappointing him, even when she’s upset following a miscarriage -“Don’t be sad and don’t make me sad”. Then when Hürrem mentions to him before he sets out for war that as a result of it many people will lose their families and she’s also scared she would lose Suleiman because she has only him in the world (like.. get a hint why she’s all alone), he simply delivers her a talk how war is progress and civilisation survives by fighting 🤡 . Bah, he even says to little Mustafa that his mum miscarried because he didn’t want to have a sibling (this is why Mustafa later feels guilty and prays to God to have his sibling back, so mum does not cry…). Ironically, he can display some sensitivity when others act without it, e.g. when child!Mustafa refers to Ibrahim as subject/servant, only to do so himself when Ibrahim is out of sight some time later (and older Mustafa never displayed such attitude!). He’s a hypocrite and very prone to lecturing people without noticing similar problems in himself. It’s fascinating how his biggest victory and feel of “God-like power” when so many lost his lives and other achievements influence him in this way.. Here he does have actual achievements as a ruler that might blind both him and others around him, unlike Mu rat who derives his God complex and narcissism simply from his “birthright” (which gains importance in era that put less focus on individual Sultan instead of dynasty, nd him being God, with depositions and even regicides by common people happening, him and others stressing their birthright is their desperation to performatively turn the clock back).

Obviously Suleiman could not comprehend Ibrahim’s identity crisis and all his friend was going through that affected his behaviour. He was there to give him more and more prerogatives, wealth and power, but ignored Ibrahim’s concerns when the latter expressed his doubts that in this way Suleiman might make him closer to death.

I don’t even know whether he’s a bad judge of character… he later is obsessed with himself, so he does not want anyone to outshine him. This is why he settles for opportunists - none of them has any vision of their own, they just want to get most personal gain and know the best way is to ass kiss the “God” and always be in his good graces. Since Padişah’s position was very strong back then, they would have most likely not even considered crossing it. And this is what at the end of the day Suleiman began to choose. Rüstem never opposed the Padisah, but yet betrayed practically everyone else and always prioritized his own games and gain over Empire’s welfare, like when he encouraged Suleiman to fight Persia, only to cover up his and Hürrem’s schemes and later to further strike against Mustafa. The moment when Suleiman decided against marching towards Rome and instead go on expedition against Persia in S4 is very symbolic because it shows that his initial plans for his reign which he had devised together with Ibrahim got abandoned once and for all, in clear counter parallel to the scene when he declares it’s not Shah Ismail who is his enemy, but Western European kings at very beginning of S1. And his hypocrisy is further exposed when he laughs at Christians fighting each other over religious divisions, but then instead of using it for his own purposes he goes to fight Persia to establish himself as the ultimate Caliph of Islam and made them turn from heresy aka Shia Islam. Again, what Meral says - he says one thing, then does the opposite.

I think it’s one of lesser known facts about also historical Suleiman - while he could grant religious tolerance to Christians or Jews, he could be very cruel in persecuting people whom he saw as Muslim “heretics”.

“In its effort to impose an officially-sanctioned form of Islam, the Ottoman establishment allowed domestic dissenters no quarter,” writes Caroline Finkel in Osman’s Dream: the History of Ottoman Empire.

And an interesting quote on the topic from same book because it mentions Ibrahim:

Listening to the preliminary interrogation of Kabiz from behind a grille in the imperial council chamber, Sultan Süleyman remonstrated with İbrahim Pasha for having brought a heretic into his presence. Kabiz refused to renounce his beliefs, and after further interrogation he was executed.

Even when we look at Iskender Celebi - we might say he had “vision” - to remove converts from holding highest offices of the Ottoman Empire… but what he did was constantly to cause disruption by the use of his “disciples” and Muslim brotherhood and then he even sabotaged Ottoman army in war against Persia, all to remove Ibrahim. Ibrahim, on the other hand, does take his duties very seriously and does all in his might to act in the best interests of the state, even though he is a convert and one that displays strong attachment to Western culture. Even him getting a table for their palace shocked his mother-in-;aw and we all know the neverending problems and scandal caused by the sculptures he placed in his garden. Even such preferences made him being suspected of being a fake convert and facing a whole ass trial, followed by Hürrem & Rüstem aka converts as well trying to continue to stir the issue by further spreading rumours about his lack of love for Islam. It’s truly hard not to symphatise with him there, seeing him so rejected despite having done a lot for the Ottoman Empire (and again it’s painful how he landed in forest with no grave after such achievements smh). Iskender was most likely simply jealous of his power, so Hürrem and Rüstem did not bug him there, since they weren’t at the peak of their power yet, unlike Ibrahim.

Among Grand Viziers, only Kara Ahmed and Ibrahim paid with death on the show and in the first case there was at least serious office proven and documented (yet still others complicit, including Sokollu, did not suffer any consequences)... with Ibrahim it was mostly paranoia, and with Mustafa being older did actually Ibrahim have so much to gain to even consider going against Suleiman?

Ibrahim stepped into father figure to adult prince because Suleiman stopped being a father to him once Mustafa grew up and even himself announced to him: “as you grow up we both lose our innocence”. Yet even an adult needs to have a father and some advice provided, so it was natural Ibrahim continued to be that to Mustafa and even to defend him to his father if necessary. The fact that for Suleiman this is a vice and reason to become paranoid fuck is just… deeply, deeply sad. He later similarly (though thankfully not with death) punishes Matrakci for trying to defend Mustafa and Bayezid with accusing him of “taking the princes’ side”. Those are your sons and neither of them is intending to rebel or plots against you ffs. In this way, he becomes deeply alienated and surrounded by a bunch of opportunist hyenas in the end because all people who saw more than personal gain due to certain bonds or vision got removed or like Bali Bey decided to leave the court, knowing very well what is to come (Bali Bey knew very well that his being neutral would not be enough for Hürrem and she will take care to have only people in palace who clearly serve her & it was confirmed by her and Rüsty ass poisoning Barbarossa, also another father figure for Mustafa).

As Mustafa stressed: “He never betrayed my father, his only crime was to love me and allow me to spread my wings”. It was in fact what Ibrahim paid for in the end.

How Suleiman later selects his viziers and other statesmen is reflected after Barbarossa’s death - he’s no longer the one who recruited an independent pirate as his admiral. Turgut Reis explains to Suleiman his plans for further sea expansion of the Ottoman Empire as a man with long experience in the field, but Suleiman selects Sokollu, a talented statesman, but with no knowledge of sea matters at all, only because he assures Suleiman that he will “follow only his plans and path”. Later it gets even funnier when a man with no experience in state matters at all aka Rüstem’s brother gets the position.

As a result, Suleiman’s younger sons truly did not have good male role models. We saw Suleiman rarely spending time with Selim and Bayezid, unless he needed to scold Bayezid of course. Another scene with bow and arrow, parallel to the Mustafa one from S2, shows the dynamics perfectly - Selim provokes Bayezid, Bayezid attacks him, and Suleiman puts all blame on Bayezid and then on Hürrem (”How do you bring up my sons?”). He completely forgets he’s their parent too. Or when Bayezid runs away and he decides to punish him by executing his teacher and other members of household A+++ parenting.

Suleiman even spared Lütfi after all he’s done to women with his oppressive laws. Yes, it was because Sah asked him for it for her daughter’s sake, but Suleiman knew from Hatice she and Ibrahim solved their issues and were happiest ever… yet her feelings were disregarded. And poor Mihrimah had to free herself from Rüstem herself lol.

He literally deserved nobody. They all loved him too much and were too loyal to his ass.

Even Bayezid once he is an awful situation stuck with his sons in Persia refuses Tahmasp’s offer, which at that moment was his only realistic option for survival. He does not intend to be like Mustafa and he did rebel… but yet he cannot just finish it and with his father being alive any action against Selim is pretty pointless when his Dad is alive, unless he eliminates Murad too.

Yet he just cannot bring himself to do it or consider it. Tahmasp pretty much does not sugar coat by reminding him of Cem’s fate and how he was poisoned even while hiding at the Pope’s. The allusion is clear, even despite Tahmasp’s clear “I’m not a pervert Pope” (lol) stance. Bayezid has had no illusions about his father for a long time already after the issue with the Pseudo-Mustafa rebellion when during supper wiith Suleiman he was so scared he was just looking for executioners all the time because he expected them to appear at any moment and was so scared to eat any of the food served. Supper with Daddy Ottoman Style ™.

Bayezid replying to him: “Judging by what you did to Mustafa and Ibrahim one could expect everything from you” is absolutely on point. [You invited your best friend to sleep at your place only to send executioners to him at night, inviting your son to supper to poison him totally sounds like what you might do, Suly!] Even Selim in the final episode does not want to even hear from Sokollu that he might prepare for Suly dying soon and since he’s the only Suleiman’s son living, of course the succession is absolutely clear and it is natural to begin to think about his future reign.

Suleiman’s another big problem is that later he does not have anyone with authority to feel strong to call him out on his bullshit - back when Hafsa was alive and noticed any of his “darkness” emerging she was able to tell him the truth without sugar coating - after she called him out on his treatment of Mustafa and how Suleiman begins to resemble his father, he later does acknowledge she was right. No wonder he called his mother “his conscience”. She was literally the only person there allowed to provide him with critical advice. Later everyone is scared because each misplaced word can cause trouble if not for them, then for their closest. Fatma finally says what has been bubbling inside her for so long once she has nothing to lose and even says to her brother he might execute her like others if he wishes so and she’s keen on leaving Topkapi forever anyway. Suleiman also later refers to Cihangir as his “conscience”, but there’s a marked difference in how he treated this concept in Hafsa’s case and his disabled son’s - with Hafsa he actually listened to her and tried to understand, she was an active agent shaping his conscience, while with Cihangir he never truly listened to what he was saying and Suleyman’s “Cihangir was my conscience and he died” following Mustafa’s death shows now a different perspective to someone being “your conscience” - a passive, one being more a reflection of one state’s of soul, instead of a factor shaping it. This attitude towards Cihangir in fact smacks of objectification.

He also uses this attitude to try to avoid accountability - because people feel more free to express anger at other people involved, not the Master of Lord and Death. And he can be very sly in doing so, for example after Batlle of Konya he maintains fetva against Bayezid and says he wants him dead or alive, he does not care in which condition of these, and then orders Selim to go and fetch his brother. Dude we see what you are doing here! Finally Gülfem, who has been the most patient and kindest soul around, loses this patience and tells him everything - Sülmbül and Fehrad Agha later remark it’s something the walls of the palace scream about, but everybody is afraid to say out loud here - “Even a leaf cannot fall down from tree without your approval.. All the misfortunes that fell upon our heads were your doing. For what? For the throne you cannot even sit on anymore!”

Mihrimah herself is very blind in this aspect at beginning of ep. 139 condemning only Selim and Nurbanu, while continuing to admire her father. Selim is right to also remind her of what happened to Mustafa when she calls him brother killer because… honestly. We might understand her trying to push Nurbanu’s buttons by giving Murad a concubine that they say is from her own noble family, but some other of Mihrimah’s actions are...just further perpetuating the toxicity and discord in family, aka what caused Bayezid’s demise. She uses her nephew to turn him against his own father, makes him ass kiss Suleiman, so that Suleiman punishes Selim by favouring Murad… please it’s the same thing over and over again. She still enables Suleiman’s favoritism, being not held accountable, and tries to create father-son conflict. Even her saying how she “imbued Safiye with all her hatred for Nurbanu” (and she still worships her mum unconditionally)..just what are you trying to achieve with this other than getting more people involved in the neverending drama? Same with her imposing on Murad to be like “Uncle Bayezid” and “other uncles” when the dude was initially uncomfortable with this because he was the one who shot Bayezid to save his father during the Battle of Konya.

It’s a blessing Mahidevran, who endured similar fate yet chose not to pursue revenge and leave “matters to God”, steps in. She tells Mihrimah bluntly: “There was one person responsible for misfortunes that happend to us all. Your father, Sultan Suleiman. Didn’t we all live the life he chose for us?”. While in front of Mahi, Mihrimah maintains her stance but, later she does decide to leave Topkapi and also leave matters to God and their [Selim and Nurbanu’s] children instead of actively pursuing vengeance.

As for Suleiman, he continues to talk beautifully in words that do not reflect reality and what he truly does, talking of friendship, love that are more important than volatile power etc. Even in his final monologue we see this discrepancy - he talks about going to God with no crown throne, how love and friendship are most important, while the visuals show something completely opposite - a huge ass crown and throne. This is sadly what he chose in the end to prioritise, despite trying to pose himself as merciful and just until the end of his days.

#suleiman the magnificent #suleyman the magnificent #magnificent century #muhteşem yüzyıl #aka another post #in Joanna never misses #opportunity to rant on Suleiman #ibrahim pasha #Joanna answers

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