#do you have htn? i can't remember

[lady-harrowhark]

I'm- I am- * takes a deep breath* ᗷᖇᑌᕼ It's 3 am rn, I want to laugh I want to scream I want to cry Emily why you did this to MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Gideon my pookie bear, my boo, my box of chocolates and "ur mom" jokes and soft heart I am in pain I'm DEVASTADED OKAY NOOOOOOOOO MY BB WITH THICCCCCC ARMS THAT WOULD GIVE THE BEST HUGS sobbing That being said; The writing dont explain you much in the beggining + the vocabulary was NOT one I'm used to so it took me a while to get the reading going but then????? it got so good ??? yesterday I went to sleep 6 am cause I just lost myself reading. So thanks for presenting it to me, even if my heart is now in shambles (+ Palamedes. He also pookie). Now I'll go cry myself to sleep, if you excuse me.

I'M SO SORRYYYYYYYYYY

but also welcome welcome, you've entered an elite realm of emotional distress full of the most wonderful people you'll ever cry with

[lastflowerofyourhouse]

ok i'm sleepy and having emotions and i'm not gonna grab my copy to pull the specific quotes but. you remember that scene in htn where mercy and augustine are arguing. i think it's the "you have rendered yourself unlovable" one. and augustine tells her that he could kill her if he wanted. he could do it without a second thought, could stub her out like a cigarette beneath his shoe, and john would forgive him? john would understand? augustine is his favorite, and they all know it, to such a degree that mercymorn ceases to matter in the slightest?

cool great. now remember that time when john killed mercy? without a second thought? stubbed her out beneath his shoe? and then he turned to augustine and he said, you understand why i did that, right? you know that you're my favorite? you know i love you? she doesn't matter. we can put this behind us. augustine, can't you forgive me?

and augustine says no, john. no, i can't.

cause i'm thinking about that and i'm tearing my hair out. i'm eating the drywall. her death was too far. it was too far and augustine couldn't forgive him. he was right about john, probably more right than he realized, but he could never have brought himself to do it. it was unforgiveable.

[liesmyth]

Is it better if John erased their memories, or if they came back that way and he just decided not to fix them?

It's immensely better if he intentionally mindwiped them. TO ME.

I'm a John fan. I think he's a tremendous tragic antagonist, and that everything he does in the HtN backstory is relatable if not painful familiar. He was under immense pressure, trying to mitigate the literal end of the world, having his mind and his whole self changed in ways he had no frame of reference to understand. He went from being desperate and trying to do his best to being carried away by circumstances to going absolutely fucking insane. There are many ways to rationalise John's actions all the way to the end, which is what makes it such an effective corruption arc. If you want to engage in some blorbo apologism, there are plenty of excuses to be found.

There's absolutely no fucking way to excuse mind-wiping his friends. THAT is why it's so important to me that he did it deliberately, in cold blood, justifying it to himself as a way to take their burdens upon himself so they wouldn't have to feel guilty. He removed their agency. He didn't want any peers in the world he'd created. He could have acknowledged what had happened, for better or worse, and tried to make amends - but instead, he chose to remove their knowledge that something had even happened in the first place. It's the turning point! I need him to go into that with his eyes fully open. He's doing it on purpose! He weighed the pros and cons and prioritised his comfort over his friends' identities.

EYE believe that his story arc is infinitely more powerful if there's a point we can look at and say "here is when John's story went from things happening TO HIM to John doing terrible things". Especially in a backstory that's ultimately about divine corruption and losing touch with your humanity, I think that turning point needs to be something that has a personal value to him, something that can't be chalked up to "he was high on death" or "humanity was doomed" or even "he touched the soul of the earth and went insane."

I think it's important, thematically, that one of his first actions after acquiring godlike powers was to make sure that no one would be able to remember his human self and challenge him on equal footing, even if he's still internally lamenting his own loneliness and wishing things were different.

Obviously, this is all coming from a known John Girlie™ and Eldritch Alecto Enjoyer — I interpret John's ascension to quasi-divinity as something that was mostly imposed ON him and he couldn't control, which is why I need him to cross the moral event horizon outright with the mind violation of his inner circle. Someone who views John as more directly culpable in the end of the earth might feel less strongly about the importance of the mindwipe in his story arc than I do, but TO ME it's the culmination of the tragedy. You've become the inhuman horror, baby.

/post that inspired the question

[mayasaura]

sorry if this has been answered before or if there's a post about this, but I've been seeing a lot of posts labeling harrow as schizophrenic and/or having trouble recognizing reality, including the one you just made about crux as harrow's caretaker and reality-indicator.

I realize that these interpretations come from htn, but I'm curious as why people feel that it's always been a trait of harrow's instead of a side effect of the lobotomy?

I was under the impression that she created the reality problems as an excuse to cover the blocks in her memory, especially since we know that wake/the sleeper didn't possess her until after gtn and most of her confusion happens in the river bubble.

even the "hallucinations" of the body don't really impact her perception of reality, and it's actually alecto's soul not a real hallucination. the only questionable moment I can remember is when she sees cytheria under the bed and ianthe says there's nothing there, but we know ianthe is a duplicitous legend so I read it as ianthe lying to harrow lol

long story short, I was wondering if there was scenes in gtn, ntn, or post-realization htn that indicate harrow has had these reality problems pre-lobotomy? or if you know of a post analyzing it further? sorry to throw this at you, I just haven't seen any analysis of it but I saw your post so I was hoping you would have more info :) I really adore all of your tlt analysis posts!

Hi! Yeah, if you go into my '#harrow's schizophrenia' tag, I've made several posts about it, and other people have added on to a few of them with further elaboration.

But I don't think I've ever laid it out fully like a thesis. And I have several stressful things I should be doing right now, so I can't think of a better time to get into it.

When Harrow's brain is editing Gideon out, there's an effect a little like a record skip. Her memory snags on something, very briefly, and then quickly moves on. Or she'll make an assumption or say something that doesn't actually make sense without Gideon in the picture, but she won't notice. The most prominent example is the details in chapter 3 surrounding her opening of the Tomb:

Just ellipsis "found out" ellipsis to skim over the very large part Gideon had to play in those events. If she were to interrogate the memory, it would be strange that she doesn't remember how her parents found out, but doing so would make her brain bleed. She would black out, and most likely forget what she was trying to remember.

And an example from the same chapter of a statement that doesn't make sense, unless you know about Gideon:

Two things are important about these examples, the first being that they don't upset Harrow. She doesn't think they're strange, because she barely thinks about them, which was sort of the point of the lobotomy in the first place. The second is that they can be immediately explained by plugging Gideon into the Gideon-shaped hole in Harrow's memory. If you know about Gideon, and what Harrow's done, there's no mystery remaining.

In contrast, there are other details in chapter 3 about Harrow's childhood that Harrow did, and does, find strange and upsetting.

Gideon didn't attend services, and she most definitely didn't participate in chants. Putting Gideon back in the picture does nothing to explain the "weird, thuddering beat" Harrow finds disruptive. But it does sound an awful lot like an auditory hallucination, as does hearing doors open and close where no doors were opening and closing.

Maybe we could try to explain the doors by supposing she was hearing Gideon coming and going without remembering the source, but that doesn't really track with how we know her mind processes the missing pieces. If Harrow were papering Gideon over in her memory, it wouldn't be important who was or wasn't opening doors and where. The focus of her memory would quickly shift, just like it did when trying to remember how her parents found out about the Tomb, in order to avoid looking at what she's hidden from herself.

Then there's the next paragraph:

Again, plugging Gideon into this memory does nothing to explain it. Even if Gideon had been in the habit of sneaking up behind Harrow and attempting to choke her out—which, yikes—Harrow has already seamlessly blocked out the memory of one attempted strangulation. Then there are the phantom ropes she sees, her parents' method of suicide haunting her.

The forgetting where she was, losing time, and false memories do seem at first glance like they could be explained by the lobotomy, seeing as that is sort of the whole purpose and effect. But I'm pretty sure even these are real memories. Again, because of the focus of her attention. She's remembering having forgotten, while the lobotomy make her forget to remember.

Then there's Harrow's overall behavior. Her reactions to her hallucinations, especially in the River bubble, which imply that not all of this is new to her. She isn't shocked, or caught off-guard. She has coping mechanisms. She's figured out what evidence she can probably rely on to rule out hallucinations, and what's more likely to be suspect. A lobotomy, even a necromantic lobotomy, doesn't come with built-in tools for coping with its effects. Her memory of her past without Gideon in it is fractured and incomplete, not an entirely new life story with new life lessons.

Finally, from Nona the Ninth, some evidence that Harrow's problems with reality definitely predate the lobotomy:

Crux remembers them.

[katakaluptastrophy]

Hi! I really love your metas and they’ve cleared up a lot of what I missed when I read the books. I was wondering if I could ask you a question. (Totally fine if not!)

So we know that John killed the entire Solar System because he was angry the trillionaires got to escape a dying Earth and leave of the rest of its inhabitants behind. He details killing Earth, the Sun, the other planets. My question is, what happened to the moons? Did he overlook them? Did the Lyctors get to them later?

I ask because I’m wondering if the moons have anything to do with the Resurrection Beasts and/or their Heralds. Frankly, I’m just curious about what happened to them.

I get that killing a planet and everyone and everything on it would create a Resurrection Beast. But I’m wondering if size matters. Pluto is a dwarf planet. I’m sure there are moons that are larger. I’m not sure whether life-supporting environments mattered either. I can’t recall if any of the planets had stations that could maintain human life before the Resurrection.

John mentioned killing the Sun and later resurrecting it into Dominicus. I thought that was interesting because there is no way humans could have lived near or on the surface of the Sun, so its thalergenic potential would be incredibly limited if not zero, right? But it is now a thanergetic celestial body. Dominicus is remarked upon in the books and seems to have some significance because it is tied to John’s life. (Or was that a lie he told the Lyctors? I don’t remember.)

In comparison, moons get almost no mention. I’m wondering if that’s a choice or if there are just some thalergenic moons in the Dominican System. That seems unlikely to me and I’m wondering at the significance.

Perhaps I’m overthinking it lol. What are your thoughts?

I'm honestly so confused about moons.

There's only two references to moons that I can think of:

Mercymorn says to Harrow "I'm going to go do the moonlet next door. It'll be covered in reflected thalergy." But what is a moonlet, and is this a real phenomenon, or just one she made up as an excuse for Harrow to encounter the BoE crew?

And of course, there's Pyrra's "half-flipped moon", which is again rather confusing - what does it mean to be 'half-flipped'?

John doesn't mention them in his Very Hungry Caterpillar adventures, and there's no direct references to moons from any of the other Housers we meet - with the exception of Gideon using 'moonspeak' to mean something like technobabble or nonsense. There's no specifically moon-based pre-res stations mentioned that I can recall - there's some kind of city on Mars, the Kuiper Platform (perhaps near Neptune), and the shell being built around Uranus. So we can't assume RBs for Jupiter and Saturn came solely from humans living near them.

The Glossary in GTN goes out of its way to specify that "planets and gaseous bodies in space usually produce thalergenic radiation." It further says, "thalergy is produced by cellular growth and reproduction. Most planets, even ones without a biological mass of life, are thalergenic." So that's clear... The waters are further muddied by the explanation we get in HTN, where Harrow says thalergy "comes from the accumulation of microbial life" and John talks about how this produces a "communal soul". From the way John describes it, a revenant seems to the result from any swift planetary murder.

So thalergy is caused by an accumulation of microbial life which creates a communal planetary soul...but gaseous bodies also radiate thalergy?

I think there's two possibilities here.

The first is that we try to treat this as a properly sci fi endeavour to create a fantastical yet scientifically cohesive system, and we assume that perhaps that radiated thalergy Mercymorn describes relates to the idea that anything within the planet's gravitational orbit is part of its communal self. Perhaps the gas giants draw their thalergy from as-yet-undiscovered microbial life on their moons? Perhaps the sun is the sum of the solar system in some way?

The second is to assume that while this story is fiction that portrays scientific understandings in its fictional world, it is fundamentally a story about metaphysics. So the value of a moon is not determined by having a particular amount of microbial life or a specific relationship with another planet, but some mythological or metaphysical purpose - for the most part, moons aren't symbolically important to the story as it's being told.

So perhaps the moons of the solar system are part and parcel with the RBs of their planets.

[saintzlouis]

you know, i'm normal, so normal, but i can't stop thinking about johnalecto/griddlehark and the very obvious links between them and i'm rephrasing a dumb video i filmed where i was ranting but. more concise.

johnalecto/griddlehark because... "And instead you rolled a rock over me and turned your back." because this is such a normal thing to say wow!!

but specifically, how both harrow and nona have a very similar experience of remembering their memories/who they are, through love. through the recollection of their most cherished person who has "abandoned" them, who left them behind in a way. harrow sees gideon in her made-up fantaisies, and loses it. nona hears "John loves Alecto.", and loses it (sure, she wasn't doing fine already, but the secret was out so the middle brain disappeared). love is the catalyst, and they both disregard everything that is illogical in the strands of their world, but once the pieces of the puzzle start to fit together, it's in the confrontation to love.

in HtN, it's said "Harrow was too amazed by her body's expanding capacity for despair." and all those apt metaphors of the world destroying itself around her because of the memory coming back. and well, her brain is remodeling itself completely, she's remembering the very thing that made her grief-stricken in bed for weeks, and even if it's all happening inside her soul, it shouldn't be possible to survive this, she's just going through it, and tbh, fair.

foreshadowing much because when a similar thing happens to nona, she, however, unravels in a complete literal way, in the way harrow's body wasn't able to upon remembering gideon. nona remembers who she was, remembers she was, is, loved, and was betrayed also and... she starts bleeding from the heart (fun!) before bleeding from everywhere else, losing limbs every second, etc, etc.

obviously, alecto's emotions hold so much more power than harrow's, in spite of everything, and harrow's body probably just isn't able to withstand it (i don't get/know the specifics of the physical transformations in being a lyctor, but considering gideon's rants on harrow's strength... though i don't think a close-to-human body could handle this anyway, i mean alecto is all of humanity, after all) but still, they can't escape love and it haunts them down and destroy them in unspeakable ways.

also, in both situations, gideon is near harrow in some capacity, in HtN, she's in harrow's body, pleading her to come back to fight the heralds, in NtN, she's near harrow's body, trying to stop her body from completely breaking apart and also begging her in some way, trying to talk to her and reach her. fun times.

anyway, i love thinking about them in those ways because it's interesting to reflect on how different griddlehark's dynamics will truly be in AtN now that gideon is kiriona, tower prince, God's kid, etc etc. basically every fantasy harrow had of gideon being above her in some way or another :)

[llovelyclouds]

notes on pyrrha dve

heres all the relevant info i took note of on pyrrha during my tlt reread, in one place!

(you can find all the other posts from this project here!)

PYRRHA DVE

titles:

Gideon’s cavalier, first gen, founded the second

greek mythological orgin of the name pyrrha

also, pyrrhic victory

notes from gideon the ninth:

G1deon & Pyrrha's room in Canaan house includes a drawing of a chimaera that Gideon describes as "familiar" and a picture on the wall of John and his pals (presumably) with everyone's faces scribbled out with a thick black marker. Also guns (gtn. pg. 205)

notes from harrow the ninth:

presumably lead the development of her and G1dieon's trial at Canaan house, as Mercy refers to it as "Pyrrha's trial" (htn. pg. 97)

 The reason G1deon is named the Saint of Duty (htn. pg. 177)

Asked Wake to kill G1deon quickly (htn. pg. 205)

Was most likely the one conscious in G1dieon’s body when Harrow caught her fucking Wake in Cytherea��s body????? (htn. pg. 216)

"I will remember the first time you kissed me- you apologised- you said, I am sorry, destroy me as I am, but I want to kiss you before I am killed, and I said to you why, and you said, because I have only once met someone so utterly willing to burn for what they believed in, and I loved him on sight, and the first time I died I asked of him what I now ask of you / I kissed you and later I would kiss him too before I understood what you were, and all three of us lived to regret it- but when I am in heaven I will remember your mouth, and when you roast down in hell I think you will remember mine" -Wake's note (htn. pg. 252)

All the lyctors and John loved her (and also thought she was super hot) (htn. pg. 274)

Augustine developed his smoking habit to impress her (htn. pg. 275)

Was ten years older than Augustine (htn. Pg. 278)

G1deon & Pyrrha liked Alecto despite the fact that the other lyctors (at least Mercy and Augustine) didn't (htn. pg. 479)

Mattaius Nonius fought G1deon, and seems to owe Pyrrha a debt (htn. pg. 455)

"We compartmentalised from the Eightfold Word, just like you and your girl- though I'm an accident, and he took more from me than got taken from you. I was able to go underground, even from him."- Pyrrha (htn. pg. 494)

notes from nona the ninth:

Used to be a cop, made detective, knew Gideon from "way back" (ntn. pg. 74)

"'You should be draining and replacing her fucking brain fluid,' said Pyrrha. 'When Gideon and I designed that trial, I used to crack his skull and sieve it myself, just as a control variable. It's aggregative. I doubt you're testing her white blood cell count either. The only other people I put through that damn trial were Mercy and Cris, because only Cris didn't mind being trepanned on the regular. Fucking around with souls is the problem, Sextus… you can't ever get data on souls.'" - Pyrrha, discussing when Cam & Pal "overlap" (ntn. pg. 84)

"I visited her hometown back before Anastasia got settled, and it was grim as fuck then. Just spooky caves all the way down…" -Pyrrha (ntn. pg. 86)

"'Do they still do gravid carry where you come from?' 'On the Sixth, only for research,' said Palamedes. 'I helped at a birth once. Theres a lot of noise and run-up before the real thing happens.'" -Pyrrha and Palamedes (ntn. pg. 121)

"P- was great, but like, Ministry ties or no Ministry ties, a big part of her career was going around to the local high schools and telling the drugs kids that they shouldn't be doing drugs. She'd won medals for competition shooting back north in Hamilton, but we're not talking Jesse James. We're talking Hamilton."- john (ntn. pg. 191)

"She chose us that day, not her career. I always loved her for that. She'd adored being a cop." -john (ntn. pg. 191)

"and it was P- of all people who said, First things first. If they're going to let us fix the world, you've got to make them take us seriously. Get some leverage. If they want to make you into a bad wizard, be a bad wizard. We can write the history books to say you were a good wizard. Or at least an okay wizard. They're not going to listen because we talk nicely, they're going to listen because we scare the shit out of them. He said, Which goes to show you that only getting to NCEA Level 2 isnt going to stop you making waves in life, right." (ntn. pg. 271)

"Nona had thrown exactly two tantrums in her entire life. She couldn't remember anything about the first one, but Pyrrha had told her about it. Pyrrha had been laughing with her mouth, but not with her eyes: her eyes had been very brown and distant and uneasy, as though this tantrum had reminded Pyrrha of something her brain didn't want to bring back." (ntn. pg. 275)

She mentions disco?? how does she know what disco is??? (ntn. pg. 362)

"Gideon… G-, you died for nothing." -Pyrrha (ntn. pg. 390)

“I remember P- behind a barricade… not dead yet… telling me, John, run.” (ntn. pg. 406)

Died pretty immediately after Mercy and Augustine, but before G1deon (ntn. Pg. 407)

“Who are you, foreigner, that you know the mysteries of the Anastasian?” “I was here before it was the Anastasian,” said Pyrrha absently. “Painted a nursery. Mint green.” (ntn. pg. 453)

“Cass and Mercy and I worked on cell thanergy- we need thanergy, fresh thanergy, to activate…” - Pyrrha (ntn. pg. 471)

“And Alecto said, Pyrrha, he laid me down as an appeasement to them; he fed you to them as an appeasement to them; but he has never appeased me, and now all he has done was teach me how to die.“ (ntn. Pg. 476)

[eerna]

sorry, i can't seem to find the answer anywhere, but what exactly happened when gideon saw alecto command someone to do chess compressions at the end of htn? was she hallucinating alecto for cam and pal or something? and why did she get ejected?

No prob, but be warned that this contains spoilers for book 3, so if you haven't read it yet I suggest first doing that and then returning!

My interpretation is that it was a death's door hallucination. Alecto, Harrow and Gideon are all souls within Harrow's body. When Harrow got stabbed and couldn't fix herself quickly enough for her soul not to get ejected, Gideon took over the body the way a cavalier should (her sense of self being preserved because Harrow refused to consume her, usually cavaliers are reduced only to an automatic self defense system). Here's what 2 things could have happened: 1) she died from her injuries in the flood and got ejected the same way Harrow did (not as believable, as she has autoregenerative abilities Harrow didn't have), or 2) the people who saved her hauled her corpse around, so when they pulled her out of the River, she got ejected due to its proximity. In any case, once Harrow's body was free, Alecto took over. So Gideon is actually seeing Alecto's soul patiently waiting for her turn to drive the body, hallucinating it in the place of whoever was trying to save her from dying - probably Pal, as "wrong voice twice removed" could mean it belongs neither to Alecto, nor Cam, whose body he is inhabiting. She isn't seeing Harrow because Harrow decided to stay in the River and let Gideon pilot the body, because if she returned at that moment, having remembered Gideon, she would consume her soul.

[g1deonthefirst]

i've seen a couple people in the notes of that "who saluted harrow?" poll suggest that soul permeability might explain why g1deon saluted harrow (i.e. suggesting that it's pyrrha's personality influencing g1deon) and i honestly think that's not going far enough with the concept of soul permeability. how do we know what pyrrha's personality looks like vs. what g1deon's personality looks like?

most of the evidence we have comes from their behavior in htn and ntn respectively, but we have to remember that in htn and ntn, their souls and memories have presumably already been melding for ten thousand years (assuming "compartmentalization" didn't block this process). not to mention that g1deon's personality has surely been influenced by being a ten thousand year old amnesiac. even then i think there's textual evidence to support the idea that it was g1deon himself who saluted harrow, but we really have no idea what g1deon's original personality looks like, and we also don't know what pyrrha's original personality looks like, beyond tidbits from john in ntn.

point being that you could just as easily argue that the salute is originally a reflection of g1deon's personality that people only interpret as reflecting pyrrha's personality because of g1deon's influence on pyrrha. in the end, we can't really meaningfully tell what belongs to who — just like you can't meaningfully differentiate cells of fully digested meat from the cells of the person who digested the meat.

[a-big-apple]

A selection of readings for this Easter season

💀

And going a little further, he fell upon his face, praying, and saying: My Father, if it be possible, let this chalice pass from me. Nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt. And he cometh to his disciples, and findeth them asleep, and he saith to Peter: What? Could you not watch one hour with me?

Watch ye, and pray that ye enter not into temptation. The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh weak. (Matthew 26:39-41)

She peeled her gloves off her wet red palms and rolled up her sleeves for no reason, except that it gave her something to do with her shaking hands. She made her voice as calm as possible: in a way, she was calm. She was the calmest she had ever been in her entire life. It was just her body that was frightened. "Okay," she said. "I understand now. I really, truly, absolutely understand." Harrowhark leant back on her elbows and was watching her, black eyes lightless and soft. "Nav," she said, the gentlest she had ever heard Harrow manage. "I can't hold this for—much longer." WHAM—WHAM—WHAM! "I don't know how you're holding it now," said Gideon and she backed up, looked at what she was backing toward, looked back at her necromancer. (GtN 431)

💀

And behold one of them that were with Jesus, stretching forth his hand, drew out his sword: and striking the servant of the high priest, cut off his ear. Then Jesus saith to him: Put up again thy sword into its place: for all that take the sword shall perish with the sword. (Matthew 26:51-52)

“Lady," ventured Ortus, voice deepening with timidity, "I would not venture it—but if a cavalier’s duty is to hold the sword—if a cavalier’s duty is to protect with the sword—if a cavalier’s duty is to die by the sword—have you never considered ORTUS NIGENAD?” (HtN 21)

💀

Then did they spit in his face, and buffeted him: and others struck his face with the palms of their hands, Saying: Prophesy unto us, O Christ, who is he that struck thee? But Peter sat without in the court: and there came to him a servant maid, saying: Thou also wast with Jesus the Galilean. But he denied before them all, saying: I know not what thou sayest. (Matthew 26:67-70)

Crux spat on her. That was disgusting, but whatever. ... When Aiglamene slapped her, it had none of the trembling affrontedness Crux might have slapped her with. She simply backhanded Gideon the way you might hit a barking animal. ... There was a pause. "Oh, Griddle!" said Harrow pityingly, in the silence. "But I don't even remember about you most of the time." (GtN 19, 21, 27)

💀

And immediately the cock crew again. And Peter remembered the word that Jesus had said unto him: Before the cock crow twice, thou shalt thrice deny me. And he began to weep. (Mark 14:72)

When the world finally landed its long wound-up sucker punch, a tangled howl came out of her throat, and she was shocked that she was able to make such a noise. Memory hit Harrowhark Nonagesimus with the inexorable gravity of a satellite sucked from orbit, flinging itself to die on the surface of its bounden planet; the world hit her like a fall. ... "If I forget you, let my right hand be forgotten," her mouth was saying. "Add more also, if aught but death part me and thee." And, unsteadily: "Griddle." The hands must have withdrawn; she found herself facedown on the mattress, sobbing as she had not sobbed since she was a child. (HtN 380)

💀

And the soldiers platting a crown of thorns, put it upon his head; and they put on him a purple garment.

Then therefore he delivered him to them to be crucified. And they took Jesus, and led him forth. And bearing his own cross, he went forth to that place which is called Calvary, but in Hebrew Golgotha. (John 19:2, 16-17)

You were afraid someone might take your sword away from you if you left it; rather than lifting it, you lay down next to where it glowered at you blackly from the bed. You rolled over onto its flat steel breadth and bound crisscross straps of dense bone across your back, around the blade, around the hilt. Straining beneath its weight, with nothing but a ripped-up sheet to mask you, pathetic in your turquoise nudity, you found yourself accompanying the Emperor down long black corridors, trying to fix yourself in time and space. You were basically naked. The sword weighed you down so much that you were affecting a hump. Your Inglorious Mask was a patchwork of flaking osteology. You looked like an imbecile. (HtN 33-34)

💀

And Joseph taking the body, wrapped it up in a clean linen cloth. And laid it in his own new monument, which he had hewed out in a rock. And he rolled a great stone to the door of the monument, and went his way. (Matthew 27:59-60)

The breeze blew Harrow's hair into her mouth as she ran back and strained at the arms of her cavalier, pulled and pulled, so that she could take her off the spike and lay her on her back. Then she sat there for a long time. Beside her, Gideon lay smiling a small, tight, ready smile, stretched out beneath a blue and foreign sky. (GtN 439) You set me up. You set all of it up. I gave you one damn job. And instead you rolled a rock over me and turned your back. (HtN 434)

💀

For as Jonas was in the whale's belly three days and three nights: so shall the Son of man be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights. (Matthew 12:40) (Harrowing of Hell)

Before her, the waters parted, speared-through and mute, for an enormous lance of a tower—a tower that had never been there before; a tower that soared, impossible and deadly grey, out of the waters—a tower of grey bricks, lurching out of the River as though gasping for air. An impossible, cone-capped tower—a belled tower; she could see the steeple, but the bell cot was too far from shore to see the bell. "I'll start there," she said. And she stepped into the River. She took another step, and she walked, and she walked. (NtN 436)

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And he said to them: Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise again from the dead, the third day... (Luke 24:46)

So many months had passed, and yet, at the same time, she had only lost Gideon Nav three days ago. It was the morning of the third day in a universe without her cavalier: it was the morning of the third day—and all the back of her brain could say, in exquisite agonies of amazement, was: She is dead. I will never see her again. (HtN 399)

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And behold there was a great earthquake. For an angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and coming, rolled back the stone, and sat upon it. (Matthew 28:2)

There was a wet, meaty sound. The old man exhaled. It was dark. Then there was light, bright, cold, electrifying, like death; and the noise of another rock—slowly—agonizingly—grinding away. (NtN 473)

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But Mary stood at the sepulchre without, weeping. Now as she was weeping, she stooped down, and looked into the sepulchre, and she saw two angels in white, sitting, one at the head, and one at the feet, where the body of Jesus had been laid. They say to her: Woman, why weepest thou? She saith to them: Because they have taken away my Lord; and I know not where they have laid him. (John 20:11-13)

You looked up into her face. Camilla Hect was a closed object, with locks and snaps; she had an expression like the rock before the Tomb, inexorable, giving nothing away. But her eyes—her eyes were dark as the grit mixed with the soil, neither grey nor brown but both. They were they eyes of a winter season without any promise of spring. In comparing the eyes to the face, you saw into a zipped-up agony. And she said, with that same dull, blank, diamond-hard pain: "The Cohort took the rest of him away. And I don’t know where they have put him.” (HtN 306)

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Jesus saith to her: Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, thinking it was the gardener, saith to him: Sir, if thou hast taken him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away. Jesus saith to her: Mary. She turning, saith to him: Rabboni (which is to say, Master). (John 20:15-16)

“Will you not look at me now, Cam, and know me?" Camilla raised her chin. She looked at the dead face. She said quietly— "Yes, Warden, I will always know you.” (NtN 351-352)

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The other disciples therefore said to him: We have seen the Lord. But he said to them: Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the place of the nails, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe. And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them. Jesus cometh, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said: Peace be to you. Then he saith to Thomas: Put in thy finger hither, and see my hands; and bring hither thy hand, and put it into my side; and be not faithless, but believing. Thomas answered, and said to him: My Lord, and my God. (John 20: 25-28)

“Right, Gideon. Let’s have a look at you." He undid her scarf, and Nona looked away. Beneath the scarf a huge wound in the throat made the neck yawn wide open. When she peeked back, wishing she had her braids to screen everything, she saw that Palamedes had unbuttoned the shirt partway and there was another big wound in the chest—a big purple bloodless puncture wound, with white teeth peeking out coyly from within. "Damage is consistent with reported injuries. There’s another wound lower down." "If it’s John’s copy, that doesn’t prove anything. It’s going to be exact," said Pyrrha. "I know. But I do have a personal advantage here—I’ve touched her when she was alive." ... Palamedes had placed Ianthe Naberius’s hand over the wound. He closed his eyes—really his eyes, his nice dark grey ones, not the strange blue ones with flecks—but almost immediately after closing them, he turned his head and sneezed violently; shuddered with the same violence; pulled his hand away, and said— "What? What is that?" "You just met God," said Pyrrha. ... Camilla passed him a little pair of scissors, and he cut a short slit in the thigh of the corpse's soft leather trousers. Then Palamedes prodded around withhis fingers—he placed the needle to the dead skin—and the corpse's hand shot out and ringed around his wrist before anyone could stop it. ... "One, that's not going to work. Two, I fucking hate needles," said the corpse. "Three—Sex Pal, if that's how you get a lady's pants off, holy shit, no wonder I stole your girl." Palamedes rocked back on his heels. "Not my girl. Unlike some of us, I've never much seen the allure of an evil cougar," he said crisply. "Good morning, Gideon." (NtN 365-366, 368)

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Let it be so.

[liesmyth]

was so close to sleep when i thought of this that i absolutely had to log in and ask: do you think john forgot the original names of his friends, or do you think he remembers them, a mausoleum those- who-will-never-be? or do you think that he has forgotten them— one day he slept with the names somewhere in his noggin and the next day he simply couldn’t remember? that brings up quite a bit actually, since lyctor’s have this all powerful control over their bodies can they bring back old memories? i mean the neurons must still be somewhere up there right? where does it stop being physiological and starts into the realm of the intangible, but then again necros fuck around with spirits, so who is to say what is tangible?

do you think john uses their names as passwords

OK SO. It's very important to me that the memory loss was something John did on purpose, because it makes the story more compelling (TO ME) but I really, love the idea that he truly forgot their names. What if, in the chaos of ascending to godhood, that was something that just... slipped out? A detail of his human life forgotten? It's just so sad and compelling to me.

(I also like the idea that he deliberately renamed them when he could have just give them back their old names as a way to trace a line in the sand. I can see both of these scenarios! But I read so I open the window to hear sounds of people immediately after Nona came out and it made such a good use of "John forgot" as a headcanon. It HIT for me)

Also! I don't think Lyctoral abilities could bring back their lost memories because TO ME it was something John did the moment he brought them back to life. I know Mercy says "you could take away my memories" to John in HtN, but we don't know whether 1) she actually means it — could be that she's just trying to trick John into doing something she knows she can undo; or 2) Mercy THINKS John can do it, but he actually knows he couldn't. I don't think John has ever manipulated the memories of his Lyctors post-resurrection because I can't see it from the way he acts around them — he badly wants to be loved by them as who he is, and I don't think he'd be that pressed if he'd mindfucked them in the past. I think it was something that happened parallel to the resurrection, a part of their souls that was locked away more than a manipulation of their brains. I doubt John could undo it if he tried. It's heavily implied that Pyrrha remembers being P—, but it only happened after she died. (So, hypothetically, if Augustine ever re-emerged from the stoma... who's to say)

These are just speculation though!

[imaginatorofthings]

Everything Goes On

I listened to Everything Goes On by Porter Robinson recently after not listening to it for a while, and I was hit with a thought due to hyperfixation: "This could fit The Locked Tomb series"

So! Let's dive into it!

Contains spoilers for the series as a whole

(Does this make sense? I'm not sure, but we try to voice our thoughts anyways!)

Don't try to make yourself remember, darling Don't look for me, I'm just a story you've been told So let's pretend a little longer 'Cause when we're gone Everything goes on

This feels like a general theme for the series (GTN, HTN, NTN), seeing how it's the chorus, but specific lines can relate to different points in the series.

"Don't try to make yourself remember, darling": Harrow's lobotomy to forget Gideon and preserve her soul OR Nona's amnesia, which remembering led to her slowly start to die

"Don't look for me, I'm just a story you've been told": Again, running with the idea that this is Harrow's lobotomy, except told from the POV of Gideon

"So let's pretend a little longer": Alecto chastising Pyrrha for "playing family" OR Harrow and Gideon pretending to hate each other more than they actually did (questionable) to deal with their own self-hatred

"'Cause when we're gone Everything goes on": This screams of Paul's quote of "You can't take away loved". Everything goes on despite us being gone. This also screams of Gideon's sacrifice as Harrow still has to live on, and Nona's yearning to live.

Well, you were staring at the window And I said, "I wanna take you to the sea" And when I'm better, we'll do everything I gotta stop making promises I can't keep

This feels like the beginning of GTN, when Gideon and Harrow are leaving for the Canaan House. Gideon is the one who's saying this to Harrow, and we all know why she can't keep that promise.

But if I was gone tomorrow, won't the waves crash on? Is it selfish that I'm happy as we pass the setting sun? Someday I'll be overcast, but you won't have to cry 'Cause we'll do the grieving while I'm by your side I said

This reminds me of Nona and Gideon, but mostly Nona. Swimming with the jellyfish and happy despite dying and the world going to hell around her.

But the latter parts, about being overcast? That's Harrow's messed-up Lyctorhood. She's grieving for Gideon while Gideon's by her side (in a way).

Don't try to make yourself remember, darling Don't look for me, I'm just a story you've been told So let's pretend a little longer 'Cause when we're gone Everything goes on

See above

And I'm so scared of getting used to this All the vines that keep you tethered in your room Someday both of us are leaving here But for now, I'll just bring to the sea to you, ooh

This is everyone. Everyone's scared. Gideon was scared of never escaping or receiving proper attention or love. Harrow was scared of failing the Ninth House and forgetting Gideon. Nona was scared of dying and remembering who she was (and her tantrums).

The last two lines are largely reminiscent of the end of HTN, when both souls leave their respective body (bodies?), and also feels like Nona in a way (she loves her ocean dips).

When you meet me in the daylight like we did before Then I felt you on my shoulder, and you weren't suffering anymore You said, "I'm sorry that you worry, but don't apologize" I told you to forget me, but you stayed by my side When I said

Nona and Kiriona meeting. But they're both suffering so much, so the second line could read as sarcasm from either party.

The third line onwards could also read as Harrow and Gideon. Harrow in her attempt to forget and Gideon in her stubbornness to stay and live within the depths of Harrow's mind.

Don't try to make yourself remember, darling Don't look for me, I'm just a story you've been told So let's pretend a little longer And when we're gone, ah Everything goes on

See above

[paradoxcase]

Catching up on some older replies:

@racefortheironthrone:

Re languages, BOE do not speak House natively but learn it as a tactical and strategic necessity. There’s more info about this in Nona, but humanity outside of the Nine Houses is quite culturally distinct from the Empire - as we can see from the HTN epilogue.

@wellhappybirthdaytomeiguess:

@racefortheironthrone yeah, well said. There's a line in Nona where someone from the Nine Houses demands that BoE 'speak House' since they can't be understood.

Yes, I'm well aware of that. I didn't say anything in that post about BOE or what language they speak, I was only talking about how people have been telling me that "House" is actually Modern English unchanged from the 21st century

@eye-lantern:

For Gaius Gaia, you presume Jod knows about etymology

That's true, but ugh, it's still dumb, and I have a feeling this isn't going to be called out ever

@wellhappybirthdaytomeiguess:

re: pre-Ressurection knowledge: BoE certainly remembers pre-Rez stuff since that's the whole thing with their names. But residents of the House, less so. I think we can say that what they recall is purpusely limited/selective. John gives a reason why in Nona...

I'm not talking about BOE, though. The Nine Houses characters know about guns, they know how they work, etc. It's not some lost technology

[andordean]

oooooo you're reading the locked tomb👀!! Got any thoughts, opinions so far? You mentioned in tags of one post downloading htn but idk how far along with it you are, do you like it? Who are your current favourites from the cast?

have fun with further reading!

A! A! A! I remembered seeing tlt on my dash but I couldn't remember who was posting about it!

I've only read (listened to) the first book so far, I was supposed to catch up on sleep after getting up at 4am for a flight from London but Shit Was Happening, so guess what... And then I was listening to it while working, OoOpS. So for know my knowledge of the verse is very limited, but I live for the girl himbo and the gremlin! (☠️☠️☠️)

I can't wait to read more. I have Sads about the Sixth, and I can't wait to read more. Guess I won't get much sleep in the coming days, ha. 💜

[beyondthetemples-ooc]

I HAD ANOTHER LOCKED TOMB DREAM.

Well, not exclusively Locked Tomb, this time it was like a wild amalgamation of an anime, a TTRPG, and Harrhowhark was mostly just There for Some Reason.

I haven't even read anything TLT since I read Nona twice??? I think I started reading GtN again and half of HtN when I was on Very Long Flights in November, but I stopped when I got back from England.

Wh...

I can't even remember the Plot details, but the POV oscillated wildly between Me (As I Am In This World) watching an animated show, some kind of choose-your-own-adventure movie that you could interact with, and Actually Being Harrowhark In Those Situations.

I specifically remember being like "Ha, that person with black outfit and white accessories looks like Harrowhark-- and SKULL PAINT, WAIT THAT IS HARROWHARK!"

Throughout the dream, I remember being bewildered and delighted that they made Something Locked Tomb into an Animated Series.

(Why must my dreams tantalize me with so many various media adaptions, only for me to wake up and realize they're not real?!)

Gideon made an appearance for approximately 2 minutes to banter with her at one point, she might have been checking peoples' weapons, but mostly it was Harrowhark and... a huge group of people I can't remember anything about.

(random bits I remember and putting a cut because it did get kinda long, even though it's all just Vague Feelings at this point.)

The "plot" involved a lot of running from people, winning competitions, and some kind of threat from the sky where one character stayed out in the open for too long and something dropped on their head that killed them. I was like "Holy shit, they actually killed someone???" But I specifically remember being like, "probably a good thing that was only a side character", I was more shocked by the death being there than upset that That Particular character had died.

(I think that may have been Dream Canon staying true to IRL Canon where I mostly latch onto One singular Character and mostly only have emotional responses to My Favorite. ^^';; It takes a rare and special piece of media for me to LOVE more than One Character!)

I think my brain drew from Pokemon Horizons, because there were scenes that took place in a thing that was a hot air balloon basket sometimes, and others it was a huge airship???

There were also scenes on the ground though, like something happened in a high school locker hallway that had... something to do with people doing crimes I think, I have no idea why my brain decided that was an appropriate place to put that whole thing.

I wish I could remember the plot because it was Adventurous and I was having a GREAT time, totally engaged (or exhilarated in the moments It Was Happening to Me and not a character on a show).

But alas, I woke up to the alarm and it slipped away. it took a solid 20 seconds to transition from Stirring From the Dream to Actually Being Awake. I was dreaming Really deeply, apparently.

Not sure if that's because my subconscious was Inspired by the concert last night (Breaking Benjamin, Disturbed, and Jinjer!) or if it's because, as I told my qpp last night, "I've done more physical activity in the past 48 hours than I have in the entire past 6 months." And was thus absolutely Conked Out.

(Helped Mom move, moved some things into our own place, and then the concert, which is a situation I'm constantly moving in. Even being sore from moving things for 6+ hours, I can't help but sway and dance and slam the rock fist. So yeah, a Lot of physical activity. The most I've done lately is 10-minute walks to bus stops and physical therapy exercises, which are mostly just little muscles in my hips.)

[hatshepsut9]

Song lyrics that belong to The Locked Tomb now: 1-5/?

1. Talas - Sojourner  (Harrow, HtN montage)

Sight returns Before cruel thought There's such grief in waking I long to drift unknowing here But memory soon Breaks me anew

Again that dreadful whisper It moves across the drowning tide I hide in broken towers But still it knows all that I've done Will I become this darkness? Will I forget all that I was? Only you There's only you

Now, the ghosts drifting forward In the dark of the void But I do not stand alone As I ever have before And I hear the words resound In your voice, "Take my hand" No, I do not stand alone As I ever have before

And I hear the words resound In your voice, "Take my hand" No, I do not stand alone As I ever have before

Here we stand at the heart Of this hopeless World of chaos No, we do not stand alone As we ever have before 2. Frozen - Within Temptation (post-GtN Gideon)

I can't feel my senses I just feel the cold All colors seem to fade away I can't reach my soul I would stop running, if I knew there was a chance It tears me apart to sacrifice it all but I'm forced to let go Tell me I'm frozen but what can I do? Can't tell the reasons I did it for you When lies turn into truth I sacrificed for you You say that I'm frozen but what can I do? I can feel your sorrow You won't forgive me, but I know you'll be all right It tears me apart that you will never know but I have to let go Tell me I'm frozen but what can I do? Can't tell the reasons I did it for you When lies turn into truth I sacrificed for you You say that I'm frozen but what can I do? Everything will slip away Shattered pieces will remain When memories fade into emptiness Only time will tell its tale If it all has been in vain I can't feel my senses I just feel the cold Frozen... But what can I do? Frozen... Tell me I'm frozen but what can I do? Can't tell the reasons I did it for you When lies turn into truth I sacrificed for you You say that I'm frozen, frozen... 3. Stardust - Delain (this works for John et al but also BoE)

Dreamscape in a blanket silver grey Homesick for a memory washed away All light in our hollow eyes is stardust, stardust

Once you learned there is no return to lies Heaven cried as we left the earth to die Homesick for a memory In silent sleep eternally

Bring me to life Come bring me the starlight Come bring me the sun and moon Release the stars tonight

Far away in a distant memory There is lush There is green and you and me All blood in our hollow hearts is stardust, stardust

Washed away Like your face drawn in the sand At the edge of the sea is how we end Painful is the memory We did it to ourselves!

Awaken me Bring back my heartbeat Bring back the warmth of skin The world we're living in

Bring me to life Bring me the starlight Bring me the sun and moon Release the stars tonight

Bring me to life (dreamscape into grey) Bring me the starlight (homesick, all washed away) Bring me the sun and moon Release the stars tonight 4. Angels - Within Temptation (Alecto @ John)

Sparkling angel, I believe You are my saviour in my time of need Blinded by faith, I couldn't hear All the whispers, the warning's so clear

I see the angels I'll lead them to your door There's no escape now No mercy no more No remorse 'cause I still remember The smile when you tore me apart

You took my heart Deceived me right from the start You showed me dreams I wish they'd turn into real You broke the promise And made me realise It was all just a lie (just a lie)

Sparkling angel, I couldn't see Your dark intentions, your feelings for me Fallen angel, tell me why What is the reason? The thorn in your eye

I see the angels I'll lead them to your door There's no escape now No mercy no more No remorse 'cause I still remember The smile when you tore me apart

You took my heart Deceived me right from the start You showed me dreams I wish they'd turn into real You broke the promise And made me realise It was all just a lie

Could have been forever Now we have reached the end This world may have failed you It doesn't give the reason why You could have chosen a different path in life The smile when you tore me apart

You took my heart Deceived me right from the start You showed me dreams I wished they'd turn into real You broke a promise And made me realise It was all just a lie

Could have been forever Now we have reached the end 5. The Proud and the Broken - Kamelot (John + original lyctors?)

Where have all the heroes gone that used to bleed for us? Still holding on to fading lullabies and fear the end when every note is lost

How can we know if a glance beyond the shadow wall could free our souls?

In the wake behind the virtuous we carry on While listening to the poetry of lies And darkened by the prosperous we carry on As ignorance of human life subsides

They left us blind and broke our pride They told us to be brave But like an insect drawn to light, we circle around the radiance of truth

How can we know if a glance beyond the shadow wall could free our souls?

In the wake behind the virtuous we carry on While listening to the poetry of lies And darkened by the prosperous we carry on As ignorance of human life subsides

I am you You are me Feel the grace I set you free I am the empire  I am the empire  I am the empire

I am learning to crawl Denying The Fall In time, I'll stand again I am bare to the skin, I'm refusing to give in You can't break my heart again But I try, I keep trying And I'm dying to forgive All the matters is what's going to be

I try, I keep trying I'm dying to forgive

In the wake behind the virtuous we carry on While listening to the poetry of lies And darkened by the prosperous we carry on As ignorance of human life subsides