#discussion thereof

[wordsandrobots]

Iron-Blooded Oprhans: Urdr Hunt - Episode 15: Brothers' Ship [Part 1]

Trafalgar Log's latest set of fansubs for the Urdr Hunt are up and this installment sees us whisked back to Earth for a Zan Clan family reunion, Wistario going into the mining business, and Berose fervently wishing the job market was more in her favour.

Before we get to that, I need to note my continuing discomfort with the artistic choices made regarding the Zan brothers and now their father. I'd welcome the opinion of somebody actually qualified to have one - particularly in relation to other depictions of African Americans in recent Japanese animation - but from the perspective of a white Englishman well-aware this is far from the worst example of racism in anime you could pick, the exaggeration and colouring decisions nevertheless feel extremely yikes.

Rightly or wrongly, nothing about the writing itself has struck me as egregiously othering. Rome and Aiko are rich, blundering bullies, but they're still presented as people, with this episode unpacking their motivation and adding a little more depth to Aiko in particular. I'd feel differently if they were the only black/non-Japanese characters in Iron-Blooded Orphans, but this is not at all the case.

IBO's art direction, however, makes a lot of its shady underworld types into grotesques. The anime's style is generally fairly unflattering, with few characters being overtly pretty (Shino has his jug-handle ears; Akihiro, his resting thundercloud face; Chad clearly needs to eat more; and while I notice someone has been turning the bishie dial up on his recent art, Eugene is generally more sour-looking in the show itself; etc). But then there are the likes of Orcus, the Brewers and even Jasley, who stand out for ugliness that takes on cartoonish proportions. Mix that with explicitly racialised features and the results aren't great, particularly when the detail level drops during the actual animation.

It's frustrating in light of, for example, Gundam:Narrative being actively edited for things like this in its English release, G-Witch not having the problem to begin with, and IBO's own manga spin-off presenting a comparable example of character design that *isn't* as heavily exaggerated. (This last being the reason I wanted to draw attention to this link with alignment - Jizil Jizin [Gundam names, my gods] is an honourable and upstanding man, in contrast to the Zans.)

Anyway. Didn't feel I could write this episode up without addressing that. Now on to the plot.

Hajiroboshi  (Part 1, Part 2)

Departure (Part 1, Part 2)

598 (Part 1, Part 2)

Corridor of Betrayal (Part 1, Part 2)

Holder of the Ring (Part 1, Part 2)  

Unexpected Encounter (Part 1, Part 2)

Venus’ Worth (Part 1, Part 2)

Brothers' Ship (Part 1, Part 2)

We open with Rome Zan phoning his local wholesaler. He and his brother are heading home to visit their ailing father and Rome wants some souvenirs. Hearing it's for Mr Rubian, the saleperson is happy to oblige, offering flowers before Rome insists on fine booze and a selection of luxury food as well.

Aiko Zan is less interested in the prospective gifts than the fact their dad has summoned them out of the blue: that is usually a sign he's pissed-off -- and not, as Rome suggests, that he's getting weaker and wants to see his sons.

Rome waves away the concerns, explaining that that's why he's going to show up with lots of gifts, but Aiko is unconvinced at his older brother's ability to put Rubian in a good mood, muttering that he always tends to make dad angry instead . . .

Of course, he's not brave enough to say this to Rome's face. But he is brave enough to threaten 'Berosuke' -- that is, Berose Kousa, the Zans' Urdr Hunt guide -- against blabbing about the brothers' total failure to make any progress.

Berose -- who is so utterly done with these two -- tries to explain that she hasn't had contact with Rubian since he gave the ring to his sons, which Aiko doesn't believe, though that scarcely matters. Rome is busy convincing himself that this sudden invite means his dad is about to hand full control of the Zan Clan over to him!

Spoilers: nope.

Down on Earth, presumably in the SAU, we arrive at an honest-to-goodness castle, set in beautiful garden grounds and decked out like a palace. In a fittingly richly-decorated room, Rome greets his 'Big Papa' with an enthusiastic hug, which the elderly man returns, greeting Aiko too. But the formalities quickly sour: the bed-ridden crime boss is not happy with Rome's gifts. He has no time for flowers and his doctor has told him to stay away from booze and meat. He called them here to discuss the Urdr Hunt. How's it going?

Rome deflects the question to Aiko who says it's going so well, dad'll laugh his ass off! Which does not sound like the reports Rubian has been getting . . .

We're then introduced to Jabiro, an actually competent member of this crime family (albeit not an actual relation, as far as I can tell). He has been monitoring the brothers in order to make sure the Clan's reputation isn't tarnished by their shenanigans. It's obvious he has a very low opinion of them and the feeling is mutual.

In any case, Rubian concludes over Rome's protestations that the fastest way to get an accurate update is to invite Berose in to join them.

Berose proceeds to drop the brothers straight into the shit: so far, Rome and Aiko have failed to visit any of the four waypoints, instead starting fights with the other participants that they lost and suffered a great deal of damage as a result. She assumes this places them far behind their rivals.

Rubian thanks her for confirming Jabiro's intel and Jabiro himself is ecstatic, seeing this as proof the brothers are unfit to take over leadership. The old man concurs. He thought choosing between his sons by assessing which of them contributed more to the Hunt would force them to grow as leaders, but instead they've wasted time, people and money. If that continues, he'll need to have them eliminated for bringing harm to the Clan.

Jabiro would be only too happy to fulfill that order -- but at the end of the meeting 'Big Papa' relents slightly. Without much time left, he gives Rome and Aiko one last chance to make him proud they are his sons.

As the scene ends, we are informed that from the bottom of her heart, Berose does not care about any of this.

Returning to the battleship, an infuriated Rome wishes his dad would hurry up and die. Perhaps he ought to kill him and take over by force! Aiko cringes at the idea -- Rubian would definitely take Rome out first -- and anyway, surely he doesn't mean that? Rome shouldn't joke about killing their beloved father.

Rome brushes him off, caught up with worry that Jabiro is going to take over the clan in his place if they mess up again. He rounds on Berose, pissed she betrayed them but needing to know how they can win the Hunt.

She sighs over the fact they're only now asking this and explains she doesn't think it's possible when they're so far behind. She drew the short straw to act as their guide, and has given up all hope of them succeeding.

Rome grows angrier yet but Aiko begs him not to actually hit Berose -- what if that gets them disqualified? Berose herself expresses complete indifference to the prospect. Did I mention how few fucks she has left to give?

Thus thwarted, Rome orders his crew to prepare to crush all their rivals. If there's no one else left, surely that means they win? With another sigh, Berose proposes a more efficient method. The mission of the Hunt appears to be to visit each of the waypoints and hit certain goals (gather a prize, confirm you've been there, collect data). There might be a system by which everyone who reaches a waypoint could achieve the same goal. So if the other participants have completed the four already flagged, perhaps the Zan Clan could negotiate with them to share what they've already collected -- or something?

Predictably, Rome and Aiko immediately decide to take the data by force. But who to rob? They don't want to mess with the Omden Colony Company and one of the crew has found out that the Rakou Pirates are linked to Teiwaz -- definitely a no-no. With Foundling now under the Pirates' protection and the Zans apparently not being aware of Mendou yet, the choice is obvious: the brat in the three-horned mobile suit!

Pause because apparently we have character limits on 'blocks' now. Take a break! Have a drink! Revel in the fact that the IBO Moon Steel manga now has its own website! Now back to the story.

Over at Radonitsa Colony (an indeterminate time later; I assume the Zans were travelling to and fro over the couple of weeks established as passing in the last episode), Wistario himself is inspecting a refitted hangar aboard the Erda II. They'll now be able to carry both Hajiroboshi and Asmodey inside the ship, which Range in particular is happy about.

Katya hurries up with a basket full of cloth -- she's decided to make curtains for the windows inside the ship, putting her sowing skills to use. Although, she's disappointed with the fabric selection on offer in the colony. Don't they have fashionable shops here?

Demner admits it's a results of the limited supplies Radonitsa receives. They barely have what it takes to get by. Katya points out they'll need to improve that if they want to encourage visitors and sets herself up as an advisor on the kinds of goods to sell. Range is taken aback by her leaping straight to planning tourist tat -- shouldn't that wait until they've founded their country? But Katya is firm: there's so much to do, they *have* to start planning ahead. And off she goes to get started on those curtains.

The others reflect on her improved mood, with Korunaru concluding she must have sorted out her feelings before asking to be allowed to help Katya out.

Wistario, Demner and Range head back to the Afam Equipment office, where they find Sprah in the middle of a crisis. Mobius Metals have suspended deliveries of colony repair supplies on account of their entire mining workforce quitting to go find better-paid work further out in the Earth-sphere colonies. While I obviously salute miners seeking greater remuneration, this puts our Wiz in a bit of a bind, since without those metals, Afam Equipment can't keep Radonitsa in working order.

Never one to shirk his duties as an upbeat teen anime protagonist, Wistario decides the best course is to fly out to an asteroid with the mobile suits, mine the ore themselves (scab) and return it to Mobius for processing. If nothing else, it will be a great way to test the upgraded ship while they wait for the next waypoint announcement.

Impressed as usual with his charge taking the initiative, Demner starts to offer him a misuzu candy -- only to be beaten to the punch by Sprah! So many spoiled brats in this game, my word . . .

Might as well start doing segment breaks more generally then. Please stop me if I start doing custom line breaks ala my fanfic. Or, you know, don't. I'm sure I'll end up writing about these guys eventually.

The Zans are back in the Venus-sphere and they pick up the Erda II as it heads off to do some blackleg mining. Rome immediately orders his (I remind you: human debris-piloted) mobile suits to smash the Afam crew to bits in an all-out attack. Aiko reminds him the aim this time is to steal the Hunt data and totally crushing them would therefore probably not be a good idea. Rome counters that he only means to destroy the mobile suits; they'll take over the ship afterwards.

Quite correctly, Aiko points out that they've failed multiple times to best Wistario and Range. He calls on the crew to support coming up with a better plan, which gets a couple of tepid positive responses, to Rome's extreme displeasure. He accuses Aiko of being a coward, telling him not to worry. Rome's taken care of everything so far. Better to let him keep handling things, right?

This proves to be Aiko's breaking point. He insists they need to do things right this time. Because, he adds tearfully, Dad said he was proud of them!

Berose reminds the audience that this is not exactly what Rubian said, but Aiko warms to his theme, saying they have to win the Urdr Hunt to make their father happy (which, to be fair to him, does indicate he's got the gist of his situation even if the details haven't quite landed, and he certainly has a better grasp on what will make Rubian happy than Rome does).

Aiko proposes dividing their forces, with one half creating a diversion to draw the Gundams out before the other surrounds them for the kill. Rome stands fast though. Why should the mighty Zan Clan need to plan against such a tiny organisation? His dad always made the Clan bigger by attacking their enemies head-on. That's how Rome -- the Clan does things and anyone who has a problem with it can step forward now!

With the crew cowed and the ship arriving at the asteroid, he orders the first and second squads out, with two more and a chastened Aiko on standby . . .

The Edra II quickly detects the approaching Gildas and we're treated to a new launch sequence centred around the extended mobile suit bay, which can now deploy both Hajiroboshi and Asmoday at the same time. It's cute and provides a clear idea of how the cockpits work, even if the bay itself is literally just a big box bolted on to the back of the ship.

Range is still wearing his poncho over his normal-suit, by the way. Love a man who commits to the bit.

Anyway, the Gundams unceremoniously wipe the floor with the Zan Clan forces because of course they do. Rome actually appears to attempt a variation of Aiko's suggestion here, allowing the first wave to engage the enemy then sending the third and fourth squads to surround them, but it's to no avail. Frustrated, Rome orders Aiko to head out and take command. But again, Aiko says no. This happens every time! They've got to pull back and regain their strength.

Naturally, this does not calm Rome down. He insists if they keep attacking, it'll be different, and hits Aiko for talking back to him.

Quite possibly from the floor, Aiko correctly breaks down his situation: Rome is always like this. He's always right, Aiko is useless, he does what Rome says. Well, Aiko can't take it any more! He's going to go his own way to do his own thing!

And taking his mobile suit plus a couple of crew members (who came to his assistance when he was struck and now seem very eager to get off this ship), he leaves, Rome shouting impotently after him.

In space, Wistario notes the Zan Clan seem to have stopped attacking, which Range observes was quicker than usual. Where are the gaudy brothers? Well, who cares? Time to dig up some rocks!

Rome gets a report about the Gorgeous Silver and two Gildas escaping the ship. He cannot believe Aiko has turned his back on him. With a roar of rage, he once more demands his brother return.

Watching from the sidelines, Berose wonders what the hell she's supposed to do now.

And there we leave things for this installment. As I said up top, I do feel this started to give us some depth to the Zan brothers. It's nothing unexpected, but it's clear that while Rome is willing to make a performance of caring for his father, he lacks any real affection for the man and just wants him to hurry up and die. Aiko, by contrast, genuinely seems to care about making Rubian happy and definitely craves affection from him. Rome's unthinking aggression in combat is apparently derived from beliefs about the way his dad did things, while Aiko continues to display a greater degree of thought that he can't really do anything with in his brother's presence. It was predictable they'd come to blows and I'm interested to see how this pans out. I think it unlikely Aiko will be in a hurry to genuinely ally with Wistario but I do wonder if he'll do something with Berose's suggestion of negotiation now, even if only as a ploy.

Berose herself gets some extra characterisation too, which is mostly 'this sucks and I couldn't care less about these people', placing her at odds with the other guide we've spent time with. She did leap quite quickly to suggesting ways for the brothers to catch up, though, implying that she could continue to be a source of support for Rome going forward. We'll see.

[transmechanicus]

I know some people have unfathomable beef with the term but i really don’t see the issue with transmascs describing their specific experiences with societal mistreatment and persecution as “transandrophobia”, like i think it’s good to be able to discuss specific experiences and articulate the problems you’re facing actually.

[equusmaniac]

So... I've been collecting references from G1 recently while rewatching a lot of it. And well...

There are days I greatly worry about this show and how in the blue blazes it has the rating it does. It has so casually panned across the most violent robo-gore. Good, GOSH! These poor beans, and they don't seem to care. :')

[miyulien]

rant.

extremely unrelated post regarding Omori/pjsk or my au!

I am very annoyed by how hoyoverse ultimately refuses to incorporate any kind of melanin or dark-skinned characters in their game(s), especially in genshin, where they take cultures of other people. they take all of the food, the landscapes, the language, and the mannerisms as well as the clothing, (be it over-sexualised at times) but they don’t carry the beautiful ethnic features that the people of those cultures have.

i am aware that hoyoverse is a Chinese company, and its player base is full of Chinese and the standard is very much based on the Chinese standards (pale skin, thin legs, tall stature, straight hair etc.) however, regardless of your country’s beauty standards, you can’t take steal other country’s cultures and proceed to not use the people’s appearances as well, it’s like you say everything they’ve made is beautiful, from the landscapes, the buildings, the cultural traditions and the way they act.. but you. its genuinely so hurtful to see in for example; sumeru,

literally based off of middle-eastern and south-asians, which both of these cultures have predominantly dark-skinned people. but our cultures are being used constantly without our own ethnic features along with it.

the only time I ever see a character with my skin tone in sumeru, is the enemies we have to fight. the disrespect that is, to know your skin tone just isn’t good enough, not marketable enough, so they won’t make you a real character.

the idea that everything we’ve created, things we’ve worked years on, traditions that have been kept and maintained as well as shared over the centuries, is practically perfect and beautiful in hoyo’s eyes.. but, us? we’re not marketable enough, our looks aren’t good enough. the idea of having melanin is jarring nowadays, seeing characters with some sort of “imperfections” like “dark skin” is disgusting. why must we cast away the beauties of others appearance, the way they look in general, but we proceed to be overjoyed at their creations yet not the creators themselves.

it is genuinely super annoying to see how little dark skinned characters there are in genshin, and hsr, I’m not even talking about just adding diversity just to appease others, I’m talking about adding dark skinned characters and just making them normal people, without simply adding melanin just to make others shut up. why can u make every single light skinned character normal, and human, yet you can’t do the same with dark skinned characters? sumeru, natlan are based off of countries/regions that are filled with beautiful different skin tones, and hair types that don’t fit the Chinese beauty standards.

and it’s fine, beauty standards are present everywhere, but it shouldn’t be an issue to not make everything fit your country’s beauty standards, especially when you are profiting off of another country’s culture. also, can we talk about how there is literally barely any proper significance dark skin characters have in their storylines? there is barely any kind of importance that dark skinned characters have in events or even the main storyline, they appear once or twice during the quests but barely matter afterwards? they are constantly shunned and cast to the side, as if hoyoverse is ashamed of including any kind of diversity…? you can take everyone’s cultural backgrounds and their own ethnicity’s creations, but you can’t take their ethnicity’s appearance too? is it so hard to make a character with curly hair, or wavy hair for that matter.. or even make them black? is it hard to have afros, or braids, or make styles other then just exaggerated stereotypical anime straight hair?

I know it is to get profit, and that these characters wouldn’t do as well from what hoyoverse sees..

but, so many people are longing for these types of appearances, so many people want these representations, for dark skinned characters to be seen in media without simply having to be stereotypical or just added for basic diversity, just.. to be normal, like any other light skinned characters are.

It’s like me taking Chinese culture, the beautiful views, the buildings, the food, the mannerisms, and the traditions.. but not their ethnic features. people would be complaining over it and be totally pissed off, but why do we brush off the issue when it’s regarding dark skinned people not getting representation when their literal culture is constantly used in different games, like genshin, but the people themselves aren’t included?

i am not stating that light skinned people aren’t beautiful, in fact they are stunning, everyone is regardless of their melanin or lack thereof, I believe everyone’s features are beautiful, from dark skin, to tanned, to light, or pale. straight hair, wavy hair, curly hair, or coily hair, or even mixes. everyone is beautiful, and that is the truth, they all have features that make them stunning. but it’s just that the representations are so minimal in terms of dark skinned people, that is why I’m making this post.

as u can see, the literal pyro archon has not a shade of melanin, like what? none of the archons have melanin, not a single one of them? literal archons based off of regions that have predominantly dark skinned people, are all pale? huh??

i love hoyo games very much, and I love the stories but i just have noticed a total disregard and practical disrespect of dark skinned people who have stated that they want more representation seeing as hoyo uses their own culture but not their appearances, its just depressing to see what your ancestors have created, the hard work it took for you to maintain your culture, only for a huge company to swoon in and take that culture, and market it, but change your appearances to better fit their idea of ‘attractive’. As if you aren’t good enough, you aren’t marketable whatsoever.

they can easily incorporate inazuma accurately, which is based off of Japanese culture, they can use their ethnic features, and the way that they look, they can use the culture, the food, the traditions and events and the mannerisms and clothing, but they can also use their features? what’s the difference between Hispanic culture, and Japanese culture? why is it easy to use Japanese features but not Hispanic? it’s no coincidence.

I don’t like complaining in general, especially abt this, but honestly I have just seen this happen so much during the updates that I really got tired of cultures being used and praised, but the people themselves aren’t worthy of the same thing because they don’t fit the ‘beauty standard’

at the end of the day, you can do what you want, but if you are going to use a country’s culture, and profit off of it, the least you could do is also include their ethnic features instead of appeasing to your country’s beauty standards constantly.

hoyoverse is a multi-billion dollar company, it really isn’t that hard to include other ethnicites beautiful melanin and natural ethnic traits that they have, like greek noses, flat noses, upturned noses, small lips, big lips, big eyes and small eyes. thick eyelashes, long eyelashes, mixed skin tones, freckles and more, it’s just features that carry beauty, the mesmerising history of a culture to them. it isn’t that hard to include it, if you are willing to steal a culture, and call that culture perfect, except the people that created that culture.

do better, hoyoverse.

[etoilesombre]

Hey, do you guys want to hear a story? Let me tell you about the romance between Lancelot and Guinevere, as recounted in Sir Thomas Malory's Le Morte d'Arthur.

So, I thought I knew the basics. I grew up reading modern versions of Arthurian legend that focused on other aspects, but had a general knowledge of the Arthur-Guinever-Lancelot love triangle. It didn't show up too much, but I assumed it was subtext in some other versions. What I picked up was that it was sort of pure, almost an ot3, and not the cause of a lot of problems. 

My friends. In this version it is NOT SUBTEXT, it DEFINITELY CAUSED PROBLEMS, and it is WILD. It is a true will-they-won't-they drama fest soap opera romance, and I need to share. So please, come on this journey with me.

[I’m looking at you, Black Sails fandom people. I need you to know that Flint canonically would have read this. He would almost certainly have also grown up hearing these stories. I’m not saying he’s Lancelot coded, but I am saying it's interesting that he would have been aware that was something it was possible to be.]

A couple notes, before we dive in. I am very much just summarizing what happened in the book. The thing is, the book is a million pages long and also in Middle English, and this is just one of many plots, which I think is why it's not more widely known. I will show some excerpts so you can get a feel for the text, but you don’t need to read them to understand the story. I'm referring to a version that is as close to the manuscript as I can find, though with spelling regularized. For real fun, see what the original looked like. Malory purports to be translating part of the French Vulgate cycle, which likely is where the character of Lancelot originates, but in fact he is doing much more than translating, and compiles other stories as well. Point being, when he says “so the French book sayeth” etc, that is the “book” to which he is referring. Because of my lack of knowledge about the language and cultural context, this lecture series from Mythgard Academy was absolutely invaluable to my understanding. I cannot recommend it highly enough. Inevitably, some of the opinions of the prof are reflected here. I do not have it in me to compare the scholarship of various medievalists right now, I just want to tell you about this DRAMA. 

Let’s start with a prophecy. When Arthur decides he wishes to marry Guinevere, Merlin advises him to take someone else, because if he takes her, she will betray him with Lancelot and it will destroy his kingdom. All of this is foretold, not only to us, but to Arthur himself. Of course he takes her anyway, and all is doomed from the start.

As we begin the main arc of this story (several books after the prophecy), Lancelot is widely acknowledged to be the best and most renowned knight of Arthur’s court. He is plainly and hopelessly in love with Guinevere, and she loves him in return. Arthur doesn’t have a problem with this - who wouldn’t love Guinevere? This sort of love is socially acceptable, so long as they do not sleep together, which would be treason. Arthur in fact seems to support their love, because it means that Lancelot will be Guinevere’s champion should she need one. This is a role Arthur himself legally cannot fill because he is the king, and so would have to be the judge. Lancelot is indeed a good champion for her, and fights for her when she is wrongly accused of murder. 

Lancelot is deeply chivalrous, in a way that seems sincere. This is a great place for a first excerpt, a conversation with a Random Damsel Lancelot has been helping:

‘Now, damosel,’ said Sir Lancelot, ‘will ye any more service of me?’ ‘Nay, sir,’ she said, ‘at this time, but almighty Jesu preserve you wheresoever ye ride or go, for the most courteous knight thou art and meekest unto all ladies and gentlewomen that now liveth. But one thing, sir knight, me thinks ye lack, ye that are a knight wifeless, that ye will not love some maiden or gentlewoman. For I could never hear say that ever ye loved any of no manner of degree, and that is great pity. But it is noised that ye love Queen Guenivere, and that she hath ordained by enchantment that ye shall never love no other but her, nor no other damosel nor lady shall rejoice you; wherefore there be many in this land of high estate and low that make great sorrow.’ ‘Fair damosel,’ said Sir Lancelot, ‘I may not warn* people to speak of me what it pleaseth them; but for to be a wedded man, I think it not; for then I must couch with her, and leave arms and tournaments, battles and adventures. And as for to say to take my pleasance with paramours, that will I refuse, in principal for dread of God. For knights that be adventurous should not be adulterers nor lecherous, for then they be not happy nor fortunate unto the wars; for either they shall be overcome with a simpler knight than they be themselves, or else they shall slay by unhap and their cursedness better men than they be themselves. And so who that useth paramours shall be unhappy, and all thing unhappy that is about them.’ 

So after doing his Knightly Deeds for this damsel, Lancelot asks if she needs anything else. She says no, but you are lacking one thing, which is the love of a woman. It is rumored that is because Guinevere has through sorcery made you love only her, and that causes all of the women great sorrow. In reply Lancelot makes this speech about how he cannot have a wife or paramour and be a good knight, but everyone thinks it is at least in part because his love is reserved for Guinevere.

Now, throughout the book his chastity DOES notably cause all of the women great sorrow. Everyone wants to sleep with Lancelot. Literally he is kidnapped by the four most beautiful queens other than Guinevere, and they say he has to choose one of them as a lover (not even a wife, a lover) or else die. He says he would rather die, though in the end he escapes. This is just an example, truly it is a recurring problem for him. He is, at one point, tricked into sleeping with a woman with whom he conceives his son Galahad (as was prophesied, it's a long story and the romance is only part of it. It is worth mentioning that something similar happens to Arthur, which is how Mordred is sired.) When Guinevere learns that Lancelot has been with someone else, she is angry and banishes him from the court. They still love each other and eventually reconcile. 

So, Lancelot goes on the quest for the holy grail. But he fails, specifically because while he is outwardly dedicated to God, in his private heart he is still dedicated to Guinevere. And so he makes a vow to renounce his love for her, acknowledging that it is beyond measure (beyond what is right, even if they have not technically done anything wrong.) However when he returns to Camelot, he cannot keep this vow, as we see. 

Then, as the book saith, Sir Lancelot began to resort unto Queen Guenivere again, and forgot the promise and the perfection that he made in the quest. For, as the book saith, had not Sir Lancelot been in his privy thoughts and in his mind so set inwardly to the Queen as he was in seeming outward to God, there had no knight passed him in the quest of the Sangrail, but ever his thoughts were privily on the Queen. And so they loved together more hotter than they did beforehand, and had many such privy draughts together that many in the court spoke of it, and in especial Sir Agravain, Sir Gawain’s brother, for he was ever open-mouthed. So it befell that Sir Lancelot had many resorts of ladies and damosels that daily resorted unto him to be their champion: in all such matters of right Sir Lancelot applied him daily to do for the pleasure of Our Lord Jesu Christ. And ever as much as he might he withdrew him from the company of Queen Guenivere for to eschew the slander and noise, wherefore the Queen waxed wroth with Sir Lancelot.

He and Guinevere start spending a lot of time alone together, and so there are rumors circulating about them in court. In order to put a stop to the rumors, Lancelot starts paying other women attention and doing more good knightly deeds for them. Guinevere is terribly jealous, but he tells her it's for their own good, and also tells her about the vow he made, and his concern that their love is beyond what is appropriate. She is devastated, and weeping banishes him from the court (again). 

Lancelot then rides in a tournament, disguised. (Why? Because this is simply a thing knights do.) To make it an effective disguise he takes the token of a woman, the sleeve of the fair maid of Astolat to wear on his helm. When she discovers that he was only using it for the disguise, and he does not indeed love her, she is so heartbroken that she says if he will not marry her or be her lover, she will die. He refuses, on the grounds that love must not be constrained and should arise from the heart, and offers her a thousand pounds a year instead if she marries anyone else. Properly insulted by this, she does indeed die. She has her body sent in a boat to Camelot, with a letter in her hand, saying that she died of her love for him, that he would not return. 

Seeing this, Guinevere reconciles with Lancelot, presumably reassured by the fact that he would let this very beautiful much younger woman die of her love rather than being with her. She insists that from now on he will not fight in disguise, and will openly bear her token. 

Then Queen Guenivere sent for Sir Lancelot, and said thus: ‘I warn you that ye ride no more in no jousts nor tournaments but that your kinsmen may know you; and at these jousts that shall be ye shall have of me a sleeve of gold. And I pray you for my sake to force* yourself there, that men may speak you worship. But I charge you as ye will have my love, that ye warn your kinsmen that ye will bear that day the sleeve of gold upon your helmet.’ ‘Madam,’ said Sir Lancelot, ‘it shall be done.’ And either made great joy of other.

It is important to keep in mind that, to this point, there is no textual evidence that they were sleeping together, and a great deal of evidence that it was important to Lancelot that they not cross that line. There is much less evidence that this is important to Guinevere.

So then one fateful day in May, Guinevere goes picnicing with an entourage of knights. They are captured by someone else who is in love with Guinevere, and taken back to his castle, but she manages to send a message to Lancelot. At the castle, she insists that her knights sleep in her bedchamber on the grounds that they were wounded in the battle when she was captured and need tending, but truly she wants them there to keep her captor from raping her. 

Lancelot arrives to rescue her, and the person who kidnapped her agrees to give her back in the morning. She tells Lancelot to visit her room in the night. He climbs up to her window, which is barred. They have a heartfelt reunion and she says she wishes he could come in to her. He acquiesces and breaks the bars to get into her room, cutting his hand to the bone to do so. Despite the profusely bleeding wound and the ten other men sleeping in the room, they at last do sleep together, in this passionate blood covered consummation. He sneaks back out and replaces the bars.

In the morning, the man who kidnapped Guinevere comes in and sees blood all over the bed. He accuses her of being unfaithful to the king, saying she lay with one of the knights who had been sleeping in her room. She denies it, but it is very clear that she did sleep with someone who was bleeding. 

Lancelot says he will fight to defend her from this accusation, which is right and proper because he is her champion. In this story people take trial by combat and oaths before God very seriously, especially Lancelot. He really does try. So he swears an oath that he will prove with his life that Guinevere did not sleep with one of the wounded knights who lay in her room. This of course is TRUE, but only on a technicality. Lancelot, having slept with her himself the night before, is also the one who defends her honor after. I love this story so much. 

Instead of fighting him, the kidnapper takes Lancelot captive. In captivity he encounters ANOTHER damsel who insists that sleep with her in order for her to help him. He refuses, still faithful in his heart to Guinevere. Eventually she settles for him holding and kissing her, which is not across the line of appropriateness apparently, giving us some idea of where that line is drawn. Anyway, Lancelot gets out, fights for Guinevere and wins. There are indications that he feels like he barely dodged a devine bullet. 

Guinevere and Lancelot return to Camelot. Finally the rumors about them are true, the deed has been done, but of course nothing appears particularly different as there were already rumors about them. Two knights, Mordred and Agravaine, who have been intriguing against Arthur already, go and tell Arthur that Guinevere is being untrue to him. Here is his response: 

‘If it be so,’ said the King, ‘wit you well, he is none other; but I would be loath to begin such a thing but I might have proofs of it. For Sir Lancelot is a hardy knight, and all ye know that he is the best knight among us all; and but if he be taken with the deed he will fight with him that bringeth up the noise, and I know no knight that is able to match him. Therefore, and it be sooth as ye say, I would that he were taken with the deed.’ For as the French book saith, the King was full loath that such a noise should be upon Sir Lancelot and his queen. For the King had a deeming of it; but he would not hear thereof, for Sir Lancelot had done so much for him and for the Queen so many times that, wit you well, the King loved him passingly well.

Arthur says he will not hear of this without proof, because if Lancelot is accused and allowed to fight he would beat anyone. And, it is said that Arthur had some idea of the affair, but would not credit it because Lancelot had done so much for him and Guinevere, and he loved Lancelot greatly. 

So, one night when the king is away hunting, the two accusers contrive to catch them in the act, with a group of twelve armed knights. They do find Lancelot in Guinevere’s chamber, but the text is notably, pointedly vague about whether they are actually in bed. In any case, Lancelot asks for a trial. The knights say no, they have caught him and so may kill him. He is Lancelot, so he kills all of them instead, save one (Mordred) whom he leaves wounded. Lancelot flees, intending to return to rescue Guinevere and take her to his own castle to protect her from Arthur’s wrath. He maintains her innocence, and still intends that they will all reconcile.

Guinevere is to be burned at the stake (normal in this situation). Lancelot rescues her from the burning at the last moment, killing a number of knights of the round table. Arthur seems to blame the accusers more than Guinevere and Lancelot (for good reason; keep in mind that the romance is a subplot, there is a great deal of political intrigue going on.) Now a war will begin, whether anyone wants it or not, because of the people Lancelot killed. Lancelot takes Guinevere to his own castle. Battle lines are drawn, and Lancelot and Arthur confront each other in the fighting:

And ever was King Arthur about Sir Lancelot to have slain him, and ever Sir Lancelot suffered him and would not strike again. So Sir Bors encountered with King Arthur; and Sir Bors smote him, and so he alit and drew his sword and said to Sir Lancelot, ‘Sir, shall I make an end of this war?’—for he meant to have slain him. ‘Not so hardy,’ said Sir Lancelot, ‘upon pain of thy head, that thou touch him no more! For I will never see that most noble king that made me knight neither slain nor shamed.’ And therewith Sir Lancelot alit off his horse and took up the King and horsed him again, and said thus: ‘My lord the king, for God’s love, stint this strife, for ye get here no worship and I would do my utterance. But always I forbear you, and ye nor none of yours forbear not me. And therefore, my lord, I pray you remember what I have done in many places, and now am I evil rewarded.’ So when King Arthur was on horseback he looked on Sir Lancelot; then the tears burst out of his eyes, thinking of the great courtesy that was in Sir Lancelot more than in any other man. And therewith the King rode his way and might no longer behold him, saying to himself, ‘Alas, alas, that yet this war began!’

So Arthur tries to slay Lancelot, but Lancelot, the better fighter, refuses to slay him and indeed when Arthur is unhorsed Lancelot forbids that he be slain, and gives him his own horse. Arthur weeps for the honor that is in Lancelot, and laments that the war began. 

The pope intervenes and tries to negotiate an end. Lancelot confirms that he is willing to return Guinevere to Arthur, and says he has always been willing to do this and will still defend her honor, but that he does not feel he can do so because Arthur has listened to liars and been misled, and he had more reason to take her away than the accusation of adultery - he does not trust she can be safe in that court, with things as they are. 

Eventually they do make a deal, with some assurances, and he surrenders Guinevere to the king. He kisses her openly, says that he will leave, but should she be in danger or ever again accused of being untrue, he will fight for her as he always has. He departs the court forever, to much great sorrow, and returns to his own lands. 

The war continues - eventually Mordred seizes the throne, Arthur kills him in battle but is mortally wounded himself and passes to Avalon. Following the king’s death, although her love would no longer be adulterous, Guinevere retires to a convent rather than reuniting with Lancelot. He seeks her out, and this is her reaction: 

Sir Lancelot was brought before her; then the Queen said to all those ladies, ‘Through this same man and me hath all this war been wrought, and the death of the most noblest knights of the world; for through our love that we have loved together is my most noble lord slain. Therefore, Sir Lancelot, wit thou well I am set in such a plight to get my soul health; and yet I trust through God’s grace and through His Passion of His wounds wide, that after my death I may have a sight of the blessed face of Christ Jesu, and at Doomsday to sit on His right side;* for as sinful as ever I was, now are saints in heaven. And therefore, Sir Lancelot, I require thee and beseech thee heartily, for all the love that ever was betwixt us, that thou never see me no more in the visage. And I command thee, on God’s behalf, that thou forsake my company; and to thy kingdom look thou turn again, and keep well thy realm from war and wrack. For as well as I have loved thee heretofore, my heart will not serve now to see thee, for through thee and me is the flower of kings and knights destroyed. And therefore go thou to thy realm, and there take ye a wife and live with her with joy and bliss. And I pray thee heartily to pray for me to the everlasting Lord that I may amend my misliving.’ ‘Now, my sweet madam,’ said Sir Lancelot, ‘would ye that I should turn again unto my country, and there to wed a lady? Nay, madam, wit you well, that shall I never do, for I shall never be so false unto you of that I have promised. But the self* destiny that ye have taken you to, I will take me to, for the pleasure of Jesu; and ever for you I cast me specially to pray.

Rather than rejoicing in Lancelot’s presence, Guinevere laments that their love brought about the downfall of the Arthurian court, and the deaths of the knights of the round table and King Arthur. She calls upon Lancelot, by all the love that was ever between them to leave her presence, telling him to marry someone else if he wishes and see her no more. Lancelot replies that he wants no one else, and that he will respect her wishes, but will also renounce the world and join a religious order. He asks Guinevere for a final parting kiss, which she denies him. 

When Guinevere lies dying of illness, Lancelot sets out to go to her, having had a vision. She knows of his coming, and prays to die before she sees him, because she cannot bear it. She dies a half hour before he arrives, leaving instruction that he is to tend to her body, and then lay it to rest beside that of her lord King Arthur. Lancelot does this with great sorrow, and after ceases to eat or drink, and within weeks is dead himself. 

And there you have it, the love affair that doomed Camelot.

HUGE DISCLAIMER: Any and all mistakes or misinterpretations are my own. This is what I gathered, but I am not a medievalist. I am barely an interested layperson. I’m just a random fic writer who got obsessed with research for a story, and had to share this tragic mess. 

[thegoodthegrandandtheugly]

[stokesy55]

So I listened to most of today’s play on TMS and I wanted to share some highlights:

Finny: I feel like if I go to sleep before midnight I’ve lost half my day (vibes, Finny, vibes.)

Aggers: Have you ever heard that the early bird gets the worm?

Finny: I don’t like worms so why would I care about worms?

Continued:

Finny: there was always this one kid in school that would find a worm at playtime and bring it in to show the teacher. I always through ‘what are they gonna do with that you crazy unit’

And when Aggers turned into me:

Aggers: I’ve just seen Ben Stokes on the TV screens with a bag… Just having a look to see.. Hmm, I can’t find him on the field… Where’s he gone…

And literally Alex and Aggers telling me EVERY TIME Ben ran into the field with drinks (and what he was wearing)

And AND they discussion how fit and muscular he was. I enjoyed those moments 😛

[allalrightagain]

Also, re: a rb from this morning, and this is the last I’m going to mention it—

I do think there’s something to be said that the gaza gfm spam started up around the time that the US election posts on this website really picked up.

We know, with support from staff and empirical evidence, that spam blogs with gfms have been a thing. We also know that there were psyops last election. Again, not up for debate.

This is not to say that every OP with a gfm or posting about the election or Gaza or anything related is a scam/psyop, but we do definitively know these things have happened before and that tumblr as a community was preyed on. I’m also not saying don’t reblog or post asks or donate, but… the fact is, unless you personally have met another user, you cannot be 100% certain they are who they say they are. Just, be cautious, verify things independently, and if they tell you to give them money or not vote or be mad with no recourse, maybe… look a little closer and think about whether you really want to platform them.

[swinging-stars-from-satellites]

usually I read the ESV Bible because when I was a kid and plagued with insomnia and psychosomatic sensations that was the one version I had downloaded to my Kindle (the original kind, with the clicky panels on the side to turn the page) and so I got strangely and perhaps sentimentally attached to the phrasing and the vague idea of it as "my Bible translation".

my mom, on the other hand, prefers the Holman's translation, and has often suggested I switch even though we both agree that either version is just as God-breathed and useful [insert 2 Timothy 3:16 here]. I've remained sentimentally adamant that the Holy Bible, English Standard Version, is my favorite.

HOWEVER.

Matthew 20, verses 29-34, in the ESV read

And as they went out of Jericho, a great crowd followed him. And behold, there were two blind men sitting by the roadside, and when they heard that Jesus was passing by, they cried out, “Lord, have mercy on us, Son of David!” The crowd rebuked them, telling them to be silent, but they cried out all the more, “Lord, have mercy on us, Son of David!” And stopping, Jesus called them and said, “What do you want me to do for you?” They said to him, “Lord, let our eyes be opened.” And Jesus in pity touched their eyes, and immediately they recovered their sight and followed him.

I read this just now, unable to sleep and so scrolling through my favorite Bible translation in the app on my phone, and something struck me. unlike ten year old sleepless little me, I have something I like to call ✨perspective✨. I also have a decade more education and a good portion of that is in, as we all know because I never hecking shut up about it, Biblical Greek.

see, the thing that tripped me up tonight is that I don't particularly care for the word "pity". maybe that's a very Western way to react, the same way we tend to react poorly to the word "meek". but it's the reaction I had and my instinct, in a very silly nerdy way, was to immediately go look up the original Greek of this verse.

so I pulled up another app on my phone that I keep around just for moments such as this and I typed in the passage I wanted to look at and I had my answer:

Having been moved with compassion then — Jesus touched the eyes of them and immediately they received sight and they followed Him.

I'm not a Bible scholar. except, of course, when I'm a nerdy little Greek scholar and am looking for an opportunity to apply that. I don't have a ton to say about this except that it's incredibly interesting to me how this was translated. from compassion to pity, which carry WILDLY different connotations, at least to most of today's audience. pity is the sense of being looked down on. compassion is more of being cared for. and from receiving sight, to recovering it... different connotations there, as well, if I were more clearheaded to dig into that. something about perspective, maybe, about personal action versus knowing you're provided for and simply receiving. it's almost like in translation, the POV shifts — from how the blind men may have perceived it, to how it really is and should be.

and my mom's favorite translation?

Moved with compassion, Jesus touched their eyes. Immediately they could see, and they followed Him.

(Matthew 20:34 HCSB)

far closer to the phrasing and perspective of the original Greek. there's something to be said for comparing and contrasting, I think.

[fictionyoubelieve]

it’s pretty cool that any artist with a reasonably full portfolio can now train an AI model on their own work and generate something similar that they didn’t make from scratch!

The process of creation—especially once you’re in the habit of creating—forces you to look at your work with a specific focus, and after spending hours with that focus on a particular work, it’s basically impossible to see it the way you would see it “fresh.” For me, at least, I always look at the “worst” parts—which is just part of learning what I could have done better, but prevents me from seeing the work as a whole. It’s reduced into all the component parts that I painstakingly assembled.

Getting a glimpse of what other people see in your art is a gift! Even if the result isn’t sufficiently up to your standards to use regularly, it can inspire you to keep creating on your own.

[bravadoting]

I wonder who ruined things so badly that Kanon closed recruitment to the Variabeauties.

Was it a disaster she witnessed in another team or something she experienced personally? How do you deal with someone acting as a deadweight in a life-or-death situation?

It’s gotten to the point where she would say, “Thanks but no thanks” to the Legendary Player himself — seemingly one of her best options of escape — because of her trust issues.

Bonus:

[obstinaterixatrix]

ok I was following someone for keeping up to date with publishing and indie author stuff but I can't stand their ai opinions I'm pulling the plug. farewell.

[silvery-bluish]

Tag game - 9 people you wanna get to know better

ack thanks for the tag @euelios

last song - Eat Your Young by Hozier, as of the time of typing. I will not apologize for Unreal Unearth consuming me wholly when it comes out.

currently watching - Absently rewatching Batman: The Brave And The Bold for the fun superhero background noise. Currently watching Ted Lasso with my qpp, and Abbott Elementary with the entire House Team, annnd Person of Interest with a smaller subset of the House Team. The perils of watching different shows with different people mean that progress is Very Slow on most of those, but I would recommend all of them. and Will speak further if anyone asks.

currently reading - Intermittently Fallen Hero, but on the non-IF front I don’t have any books I’m Actively reading. Contemplating returning to my October Daye reread, I was on An Artificial Night, and I need to pick up Nona the Ninth at some point. Might reread the Murderbot series, but I’d have to reclaim my copy of All Systems Red from the person I loaned it to. Book Reading Brain has mostly left for now, unfortunately.

current obsession - legally obligated to say Fallen Hero, i have not shut up about it since Retribution came out in February.

I will... not be tagging a full 9 people lol. but if you want to, no pressure, @jj-wildheart, @scrawlsonblankpaper, @fallen-angel161, @honor-among-thieves, @dogueteeth !

[bone-evidence]

-slams fist on table non-threateningly- 15 and 28 for the ask game. 🩷🩷🩷

Aw, hello aggressively gentle anon :D Gonna put my answers under a cut, just in case discussion of death methods isn't someone's cup of tea.

Ranking the methods of death, hm? Well, if I were to be executed for my many crimes, and had the choice between burning, freezing and drowning, I would take freezing first. While it would take the longest, I also would have a chance of false euphoria and/or hallucinating through it, and paradoxical undressing is just a fascinating response to hypothermia. Next, probably burning to death? I work in a kitchen so I'm no stranger to little burns, just kick that up to 11 and it's only agony city until my nerves get crispy, right? Dead last (pun intended) is drowning. No thank you, I'm good, I love swimming and being near bodies of water but I have a very healthy respect for them. The process of drowning and the panic involved does in fact seem worse than burning to death to me! So there ya go!

As for my last meal on earth, hm... for sure I would want a nice big slice of pumpkin pie with whipped cream for dessert, and I think the main course would have to be a nice, medium-rare steak, potato wedges and maybe a vegetable if I'm feeling funky.

[ervona]

also I like Quenthel/Tsabrak after Companions Codex... she already projects on him, being the weirdo she is (re: their mind flayer experiences) and I think she'd want to play around. she rocks up to Sorcere, because she just wants to annoy Gromph... but forgot he isn't there because he's been there her whole life! on Tsabrak's part it's a bit of a rebellion, something just for himself, and his weird mixed self impression... this was bound to happen, as they're my two faves left alive now

[standupcomedyhistorian]

Good morning! 🌞

Although it is Kate Berlant month, I have still been interviewing people who've created some of the BEST Bo Burnham content online.

Case in point, today's post is one that I have been trying to set up for over a year now—Zachary Marsh, the incredible editor who assembled one of my favorite Bo videos: the HCA Virtuoso Award montage! 👀

This is a truly stunning creation by an editor at the top of his game, and we discuss how Zach became a fan of Bo's works, what led to his editing decisions, and what the HCA thought of Bo's acceptance "speech" (the only one he EVER gave for Inside lol).

I hope you enjoy reading this interview, and stay tuned for more comedy fun!

Oh, and a little bird told me my other Top 5 video winners will be talking to me about their creations soon! ✌🏼🐔