#disclaimer: i am not a professional dm and master combat analyst

[thevalleyisjolly]

What the Taste Buds Had Left: A Crown of Candy PVP Scenario

[THIS POST IS ALL SPOILERS FOR A CROWN OF CANDY’S SEASON FINALE]

Like many fans, I was relieved that the last episode of A Crown of Candy did not end in PVP.  Like many fans, I was also a little excited to see how a PVP would have played out.  Now, obviously we can’t reliably predict any outcomes.  There’s always roleplay and player agency, to say nothing of dice rolls, so even the most likely outcome is never guaranteed.  However, we can look at the circumstances of each character going into a theoretical PVP, and potentially how that might affect their performance.  

First, a huge thanks to Kyber Bonsai, Tillie the Paladin, and gluegunshots, who put together the transcripts for Episodes 16 and 17 on the D20 wiki!  The transcripts were my main resource in gathering data, and saved me a lot more time and effort than if I had to go through the episodes, pausing every five seconds.  Thank you for your invaluable work in making D20 more accessible!  Thank you also to the D20 wiki editors!  Most of the stats and information about magical items came from the character pages on the wiki, so thank you for your hard work!  Thank you to Samir Barrett (@sketchmasterskillz), whose amazing official art for ACOC is included below.  And a quick shoutout to the folks at CritRoleStats, whose pre-combat “What Do The Mighty Nein Have Left” posts inspired my own efforts here.

Data Collection

The data reflects the current HP and remaining abilities of each character at the point when Saccharina and Ruby make their decisions.  Data collection began with the first spell slot used in Episode 16 (a 2nd level Pass Without a Trace from Liam before the battle started), and ended with Calroy’s death.  I focused on HP and limited-use abilities such as spell slots and magical items.  

For the sake of brevity, I have chosen not to include in this post every single class feature that each character has, and have instead highlighted limited-use abilities.  Unless otherwise stated, assume the character has access to their regular class and sub-class features.  Most of the class features that I’ve omitted can be found in the standard 5th edition Player’s Handbook, and the D&D 5e wiki contains the information for additional subclasses.  I’ve also assumed that apart from magical items and Lou’s Great Weapon Master feat, no homebrew edits have been made.

For magical items, I’ve elected not to describe every single magical ability, except those with particular homebrew features (e.g. Payment Day, Swirlwarden).  All magical weapons are +1 weapons (except Payment Day, which is +2).

While I was able to determine max HP for most of the characters going into the final battle, I was not able to determine Saccharina’s, as she did not take any damage in the fight, nor in the episode after she levelled up.  At Level 9, her HP max was 58.  She has an unknown Constitution modifier.  If Emily followed the Player’s Handbook when building Saccharina, Constitution would be her second highest score as a sorcerer.  Whether or not Constitution is her second highest ability score, I think it’s safe to assume that Saccharina would not have a negative modifier, giving us a range from +0 to +4 (I’m assuming she does not have a Constitution of 20).

Given those factors, we can estimate her Level 10 HP to be between 59 and 68.  She already had her two levels of cleric when we met her, so every level up since then has been sorcerer levels.  Sorcerers have a d6 hit die, so the lowest increase she could potentially have is +1 (1 + 0 CON mod) and the highest increase is +10 (6 + 4 CON mod).  Since she has healing spells, her exact HP doesn’t matter too much unless it comes to very high damage from a single attack (à la Lapin and Keradin), which it could, but that’s impossible to predict.  Suffice to say that for the purposes of this scenario, Saccharina has full health.

And now, on to the fun stuff!

Saccharina - Storm Sorcerer 8, Tempest Cleric 2

[ID: The official art for Saccharina Frostwhip by Samir Barrett @sketchmasterskillz. Saccharina has green skin and a neapolitan mohawk.   She wears a silver tiara, a blue-green outfit dotted with dark spots and a light brown front panel, a white cloak, chocolate pauldrons with cherries on the shoulders, and waffle shinguards.  She holds a spoon-shaped staff in one hand which crackles with lightning energy, and her other hand outstretched to the side also crackles with lightning energy. She stands with a confident posture, and is looking to the side with hooded eyes and a smile.]

HP: Full (between 59-68 HP) AC: 20 Remaining Spell Slots: 1st level (4), 2nd level (2), 3rd level (1), 4th level (3) Sorcery Points: 5/8 Luck Points: 2/3

Feats: War Caster, Lucky

Magical Items Winterscoop Staff: 0 remaining charges; resistance to cold damage Freezerburn: Magical sword

Cinnamon HP: 65/178 Breath Weapon: Unknown

Cinnamon was one of Saccharina’s greatest assets in the battle.  Thanks to the enemy soldiers targeting Cinnamon with their attacks, Saccharina ends the battle with full health and most of her resources.  While both her 5th level spells are gone and the Winterscoop Staff is out of charges, she still has a good number of higher level spells, as well as access to healing spells.  There is the caveat that depending on how long it took between the end of the battle and the start of the PVP, the Haste spell she cast on Cinnamon in Round 4 of the battle may wear off (the battle ended during Round 11).  If it wears off before PVP starts, Cinnamon can still attack on her turn.  If it wears off during a round of PVP, he is stunned for a round, which could prove decisive.

In a PVP, Cinnamon could once again be her greatest asset, provided he is not stunned.  While it isn’t clear whether or not his breath weapon recharged after its last use in the battle, he’s still a large enough threat with his HP and melee attacks that an attacker would most likely focus on downing him first.  Lou revealed in the Adventuring Party’s for Episodes 16 and 17 that he’d been tracking Cinnamon’s HP and that in the case of PVP, he’d eliminate Cinnamon first to try and deescalate the situation.  Given that Amethar is one of the characters who could drop Saccharina to 0 in one turn (depending on her HP), this may give Saccharina the round advantage she needs to bring down Amethar first.

Lou was absolutely correct in identifying Saccharina as his biggest immediate threat (other than Cinnamon, of course).  With a 4th level Lightning Bolt and a Channel Divinity to deal maximum damage, Saccharina could easily drop Amethar at his current HP to 0 with one attack if he fails his save.  In fact, despite having the lowest max HP of the party, Saccharina is easily one of the most dangerous PCs, thanks to Emily’s excellent build.  With a 20 AC, a spell save DC of 17, and her levels in cleric, it would take a massive single attack to pose an immediate serious threat to her.  However…

Ruby - Arcane Trickster Rogue 9, Shadow Magic Sorcerer 1

[ID: The official art for Ruby Rocks by Samir Barrett @sketchmasterskillz.  Ruby has pink skin and red locks of hair tied back into a high tail.  She wears a jewelled red tiara, an all-red outfit with puffed sleeves, and curved toe black shoes.  She is standing partially crouched, with her hands before her in fists, and looking to the side with a focused expression.]

HP: 55/78 AC: 17 Remaining Spell Slots: 1st level (4), 2nd level (3)

Feats: Squat Nimbleness, Magic Initiate

Magical Items Sour Scratch: Grasping Arrow (once/long rest), Acid Arrow (once/long rest) Flickerish: Shield (once/day), 1d6 Superiority Die (Disarming Attack) Locket of the Sweetest Heart: Advantage on death saving throws if other locket is within 5’ Water-steel Dagger: Imposes three conditions requiring saving throws - extra damage, poisoned condition, prevents target from speaking

Ruby has been very strategic throughout the battle, saving her spells and limited abilities for a potential PVP at the end.  The battle has taken out a chunk of her health, only about a third, but enough to put her in danger if she takes an attack from Cinnamon or Saccharina.  As a rogue, she does have Evasion and Uncanny Dodge, which could allow her to mitigate some of the damage from such an attack, although she would still be brought down low and could potentially go down at the next attack.

Of the six PCs, Ruby is one of the best placed when it comes to her resources and abilities.  She has all her spell slots, and full access to all her class abilities.  In particular, as a first level Shadow Magic sorcerer, Ruby has the feature Strength of the Grave.  If damage from a non-critical and non-radiant hit reduces her to 0, she can make a Charisma saving throw (DC = 5 + damage taken) to instead drop to 1 HP.  Paired with the Locket of the Sweetest Heart (if Liam is nearby and on her side), this provides her with a little more wiggle room if she drops to 0.

Rogues in general are very versatile.  Most of their class features are not limited use, and can be used in a variety of situations.  For a partial caster, she doesn’t have very many damage-dealing spells, but her hefty weapon arsenal compensates for that, with Sour Scratch, Flickerish, and the Water-steel Dagger all having considerable abilities and also meeting the requirements for a Sneak Attack weapon.  As we saw with Ciabatta, 5d6 Sneak Attack paired with the Water Steel Dagger is a deadly combination.  Ruby also has Yak, who can grant her advantage on an attack or check.  She may not be as openly formidable as Amethar, but she is just as dangerous in many ways.

Amethar - Storm Herald Barbarian 5, Battle Master 5

[ID: The official art for Amethar Rocks by Samir Barrett @sketchmasterskillz.  Amethar has pink skin and a green beard.  He wears a jewelled crown of purple and gold, an elaborate outfit of striped red and purple, a purple suit of armour and boots, a furred purple cloak, gold vambraces, and various jewels decorate the ensemble.  He holds Payment Day, a gold-coloured sword with an enormous blade, in his hand, and has a strong stance with a serious expression on his face.]

HP: 48/116 AC: 17 Rages: 2 Superiority Dice: 2

Feats: Great Weapon Master (modified - roll +2d6 damage instead of flat +10)

Magical Items Payment Day: Extra damage die against creature who hit you in the previous round; if you roll a Natural 20 against a creature who has killed a member of your family, they must make a constitution saving throw (DC 16) or be killed

Amethar has been in the thick of battle, getting the kills on Grissini and Calroy, which is reflected in his HP (under half of his total).  However, he has not used his Second Wind yet, which could give him the boost he needs to withstand a round of attacks from Saccharina and Cinnamon.  While he’s already used up his Action Surge, he still has two attacks per round, and if anyone kills Ruby, Payment Day’s special ability could come through once again.

By design, high level barbarians are really difficult to kill, and Amethar’s levels in fighter make him even more scarily efficient in dealing damage.  Rage halves any bludgeoning, slashing, or piercing damage, which effectively makes Saccharina and Cinnamon the only ones who can consistently deal full damage to him, since Liam has used up almost all his magical attacks.  Unless Saccharina or Cinnamon deal significant damage in the early rounds of combat, Amethar is unlikely to go down until the end.

Having said that, Amethar is such an obvious threat that from a purely mechanical perspective, it makes sense for all the other characters to focus on him (à la Critical Role’s Battle Royales where nearly all the players focused on Grog).  Ruby can be very deadly in her own right, but she’s not going to present the same immediate danger as someone who doesn’t take full damage from an attack.  If Amethar tanks and absorbs attacks from other PCs, this could give Ruby leeway to either get her own attacks in or to make an escape.

Theo - Eldritch Knight Fighter 10

[ID: The official art for Sir Theobald Gumbar by Samir Barrett @sketchmasterskillz.  Theo is a red gummy bear with big white moustache.  He wears an entire suit of golden plate armour and a golden helmet, with a purple sash and a red cloak.  He holds a purple lollipop shield in one hand, and a sword shaped like an orange popsicle in the other.  He stands at attention, with a focused expression on his face.]

HP: 116/140 AC: 21 Remaining Spell Slots: 1st level (2), 2nd level (2)

Feats: Heavy Armor Master, Tough, Alert

Magical Items Battlepop: Compelled Duel (once/day) Swirlwarden: Use reaction to move up to 30’ and take attack meant for ally

Yeah, you read right.  Theo’s HP max is 140, with an AC of 21 (I had to calculate this three times because I couldn’t believe it).  His current HP is equal to Amethar’s total max HP.  Theo may not be a barbarian, but he’s not going down any time soon.  He’s also been fairly conservative with his abilities, leaving him with the majority of his spell slots, as well as his Action Surge.  He also has a good list of cantrips, notably Blade Ward (resistance against bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage until the end of his next turn) and Green Flame Blade (1d8 + spellcasting ability modifier fire damage to target w/in 5 feet).  And of course, he has Princess to give him Help on attacks and checks (Find Familiar is so, so useful).

As Murph remarked in the finale, Theo doesn’t do what the other characters do, which is deal lots of damage.  As Brennan subsequently remarked, Theo doesn’t do that because what Theo does do is not get hit by attacks.  One of Theo’s potential roles in this hypothetical PVP scenario is to tank in the action economy.  Like Amethar, he’s a big threat because he’s difficult to down.  Thanks to the feature War Magic, he can cast cantrips as an action and make a weapon attack as a bonus action, so if he casts Blade Ward on himself each turn, he essentially becomes a foil to Amethar.  If Amethar and Ruby focused their attacks on trying to down Theo, this could allow his allies the breathing space they need to heal or make their own attacks.

In Lou’s strategy that he discussed in the final Adventuring Party, he placed Theo as the last on Amethar’s kill order.  While his order of kills is heartbreaking from a roleplaying perspective, it’s a very astute calculation.  Given his build, Theo is likely to be one of the last characters left standing, if not the last.  Even if he consistently uses Swirlwarden to tank damage for his allies, his considerable HP makes him unlikely to drop anytime soon, short of some really impressive damage rolls.  Amethar could try and team up on Theo with Ruby to bring him down to more manageable health, but that would leave them open to other attacks.  Murph really went a 110% in making Theo a bodyguard, and honestly, good for him, it’s what he deserves.

Liam - Gloomstalker Ranger 6, Assassin Rogue 4

[ID: The official art for Liam Wilhelmina by Samir Barrett @sketchmasterskillz.  Liam has pink skin, a red nose, rosy cheeks, and short dark red hair.  He wears pink overalls, a red and white striped shirt, red boots and gloves, and a red and white hat.  He carries a large pack containing a bed roll and a lantern, and has a quiver of arrows and a book attached to his belt.  He is mid stride, looking down at his feet with a neutral expression.  A small pig with peppermint stripe markings trots beside him, wearing a purple collar with the letter “P” and looking up at Liam with a happy expression.]

HP: 77/90 AC: 16 Remaining Spell Slots: None

Feats: Crossbow Expert, Sharpshooter

Magical Items Crossbow: Bursting Arrow (once/day - used), Ice Knife (once/day) Locket of the Sweetest Heart: Advantage on death saving throws if other locket is within 5’ Seed of Change: ???

First, props to Ally for their roleplaying!  Most of the characters going into the battle anticipated a possible PVP at the end and saved their resources, but in-game, no one told Liam the full —or even half— story.  This means Liam did not have any reason to hold back during the final battle, which is exactly how Ally played him.  Liam used up all of his spell slots during the battle, as well as the Bursting Arrow feature on his crossbow, leaving him with his crossbow’s Ice Knife feature as his sole magical attack.

However, Liam is still a force to be reckoned with.  He still has two attacks each turn, and he’s absolutely deadly in the first turn of combat, where Dread Ambusher gives him a bonus to initiative roles, and Assassinate gives him advantage against any creatures who haven’t taken a turn in combat yet, with any hit on a surprised creature being a critical hit.  Dread Ambusher also gives him a bonus 10 feet of movement in his first round, and an extra attack with a bonus 1d8 damage if it lands.  He also has 2d6 Sneak Attack, which paired with his other features, means that Peppermint Batman’s still got a few tricks up his sleeve.

From a roleplay perspective, Liam is the biggest unknown here.  While he told Theo that he would protect Saccharina, that was without knowing the full story, and without being in the circumstances of an actual PVP battle.  Ally’s WiFi cut out during the Adventuring Party when the cast discussed what they would have done in a PVP, which means we don’t know for certain who Liam would have sided with.  If he defends Saccharina, that increases her numbers advantage.  If he sticks with Ruby and Amethar, this potentially tilts the combat in their favour with another big damage dealer.  He’s in a good place with his HP, which means he’s unlikely to go down soon, but he’s also got the lowest AC in the party.  Who knows what might happen?

(Let’s be honest, Ally rolls a narrative nat 20 that results in something unbelievable, unpredictable, and world-altering happening.  They are too powerful, and cannot and should not be stopped)

Cumulous - Long Death Monk 10

[ID: The official art for Cumulous Rocks by Samir Barrett @sketchmasterskillz.  Cumulous has blue skin and poofy light pink hair.  He wears a pink outfit similar to a sleeveless gi with pants, a purple belt, and purple arm and leg wraps.  He holds a white staff in his hand.  Swirls of pink cloud come off of him.  He is mid action pose, with his legs in a mid-dash position and one of his hands brought forwards in a fist.  He looks to the side with a focused, stern expression on his face.]

HP: 85/85 + 6 temp HP AC: 18 Remaining Ki Points: 4/10

Feats: Mage Slayer

Magical Items Fluffwind: Whirlwind Stance; triples long jump; Gaseous Form (once/day)

While not the absolute juggernaut that Theo is, Cumulous is best placed of all the characters in regards to HP, with full health and 6 temp HP remaining from killing a Meatlander.  Although monks in general are not going to see the same staggering amounts of damage as other classes, and are more of a support martial class, Long Death monks excel in the kind of combat we saw in the finale - lots of lower-level enemies that are fairly easy to kill and gain temp HP from.  With a good AC, Cumulous can take a few attacks before being in trouble.

Unlike other martial classes, monks don’t often get the dramatic killing blow.  While they have a lot of attacks, each attack doesn’t deal that much damage by itself.  Monks consistently erode away at an opponent’s health, or stun them so that their allies can get their hits in.  Cumulous burned through a fair number of ki points during the battle, leaving him with a little under half his total, so he’ll have to be strategic about how and when he uses his ki.  Most of the other characters have a good Constitution and decent ACs, so it may be in his best interest to save his ki for mobility.

Cumulous has two big assets in a PVP battle, which are his mobility and the many hogwild (and unlimited) features that monks have.  With Unarmored Movement and Step of the Wind, he can move up to 150 feet in a turn, which includes across liquids and on vertical surfaces.  He has Slow Fall, allowing him to negate up to 50 points of falling damage, and he’s immune to poison and disease (which may come in useful against the Water-steel Dagger).  Thanks to being on Team Saccharina, he doesn’t have to worry about area of effect spells targeted at him.  If all else fails, he can book the fuck out of there to a safe distance and use Gaseous Form to escape from there.  

Conclusions

As I said at the beginning, there is no real way to predict the outcome of a PVP.  Besides raw mechanics, there’s roleplay, player agency, and of course, the dice.  Even looking at how each character is placed doesn’t necessarily translate to performance.  Mechanically, Ruby has the most resources left available, but that doesn’t mean she’d be able to overcome a worse case scenario of four PC attackers and a dragon.  Cumulous and Theo are doing the best in terms of HP, but would have difficulty downing another PC by themselves.  Amethar and Saccharina both have the potential to deal massive damage, but sorcerers are called “glass cannons” for a reason, and even with Rage, Amethar is sitting at a low HP.  Liam is an unknown quantity who could tip the scales in favour of one side or the other, but he has used up most of his devastating “war guy” abilities.

With the multitude of different factors (e.g. initiative order, possible crits, sheer buckwild shenanigans), it could realistically be either side left standing.  Team Saccharina has the advantage of numbers and several very hard to kill PCs, Team Ruby has the advantage of big damage dealers (not to mention rogues and barbarians are A Challenge to deal with on their own, never mind together).  As part of a team, each character has a better chance of survival and “winning,” with other characters being able to balance out their teammates’ weaker areas.  #teamworkmakesthedreamwork  All this, of course, without including the possibility of NPCs being convinced to join the fight.

But if there’s one thing we’ve seen in A Crown of Candy, it’s that there doesn’t have to be just two choices, either or.  There’s a third possibility, not between the two but something more, of change.  The fact that this is just a thought exercise bears that out.  Many thanks to the Dimension 20 cast and crew for an amazing season!