#dinodocs

[a-dinosaur-a-day]

UM???

[ifuckinglovedinosaurssomuchjesus]

Ok, that's it, I refuse to believe this isn't real. This was not filmed in some forest in Louisiana or whatever, this IS Hell Creek. I knew they had a time machine, I knew it I knew it!

It's real, these are real, they filmed real T. rexes. There is no other explanation, I feel like I could reach out and touch them. They're absolutely beautiful.

The aesthetics man! I'm sorry for gushing so much but oh god it's so good, very Phil Tippet esc. Even if it's in every dinodoc, something about a T. rex hunt just gets the kid in me excited, y'know? Plus, showing T. rex as an intelligent hunter IS subversive given how annoyingly pervasive the scavenger theory is. 

My favorite episode of season 2 so far.

[saltedteas]

IM TRYING TO DRAW THE DINODOC BUT I CANT MAKE HER OUTFIT HAVE ARKNIGHTS VIBES IT KEEPS ROTATING TO LIMBUS PLUS BLOODBORNE

[a-dinosaur-a-day]

frankly, I don't think they'll ever show it for that exact reason source: i'm friends with darren and he has indicated he also hates that every dinodoc features the extinction

One thing I like about Prehistoric Planet is how it's set entirely at the tail-end of the Cretaceous Period, and yet for two seasons in a row they haven't shown the K/Pg impact.

I've gotten so sick of damn near every other depiction of the time period showing everything dying at the end.

[awesomlyautistic]

Don't even waste your time with Prehistoric Planet. Pirated the shit out of it and it was the most fucking boring thing ever. It literally drags for 40 minutes and nothing of interest happens except very forced baby dinosaur deaths for cheap shock value. And the CGI isn't even that good. WWD is infinirely superior in every single aspect, because it actually makes you invested in the creatures. Not just "oh a cute baby dino! oh it FUCKING DIED! anyway, onto the next 5-minute segment!"

So same sh*t as most DinoDocs? Shame.

From what I've seen from stuff online the CGI looks.... Not good. Too "soft", if that makes sense? Like the outline of the dinosaur is blurry and the details lack crisp-ness.

I know WWD's CG wasn't perfect, but generally you could at least tell they were trying. And for the most part it looks good, the only real tell is in some wide shots the dinos look kinda blobby, but that's likely more a result of being made during the pre HD era.

PP's Dinos just kinda look uninspired visually. Lots of browns and greys from what I've seen. Aside from a few token splotches like the carno's blue armpits.

So there's alot of filler? Ugh. Lemme guess, they repeat the same facts that seemingly every DinoDoc of the last decade has done?

WWD was created with the intend that it was as if we had filmed dinosaurs in the wild like we do with living animals. No Talking Heads, no X-rays, no computerized simulations, just filming dinosaurs being dinosaurs. That's something I don't feel ANY later DinoDoc managed to do. Some are close but fell just shy of the goal.

[a-dinosaur-a-day]

Hypothetical scenario: you’ve been granted the budget of your average big summer blockbuster movie, but you can only use it to fund a movie / TV series on dinosaurs or prehistoric animals. What would that ideal piece of paleo-programming look like?

o-o

I'd tell the entire story of dinosaurs, from beginning to today. Start with the end-Permian extinction and how that lead to the empty niches that allowed sauropsids to diversify. Discuss the evolution of Archosaurs and what made early Dinosaurs unique from other animals (and highlight that those things were usually things that make birds unique from other animals today). I'd then go into their diversification in each period, showcasing how different environmental events affected their evolution. I wouldn't stop at the KPg, of course; I would talk about why the dinosaurs that survived (birds) did, while others didn't. I then would dig into the Cenozoic and how dinosaurs have diversified through that, discussing notable major groups and their responses to environmental change. I would finish with the modern day, the sheer diversity of living dinosaur species, and how these dinosaurs are affected by anthropogenic climate change.

can you tell I think about this a lot and wish some magical rich person would descend from the clouds to give the money I need to make my projects happen?

[awesomlyautistic]

And to be fair, we didn't have alot of material from Utahraptor, so they had to fill in the gaps with Deinonycus.

I remember reading years ago that a new skull was found was was very different from any known dromeosaur, but it wasn't until like last year I found any actual pics of the new Utahraptor skull. (I think for the longest time the paper was behind a paywall).

I just can't hate on WWD. Even at it's weakest it's still miles above most later DinoDocs.

More Utahraptor gifs for the Utahraptor Week. These are of course very outdated since the series was made almost 20 years ago.

[a-dinosaur-a-day]

SO THIS IS A THING

[a-dinosaur-a-day]

I just want *one* mainstream popular modern (ie, new) dinodoc that

avoids anthropocentrism

outright calls birds dinosaurs

we don't know if life on our planet does the second one, but we do know it's failed on the first if the synposes are to be believed

and prehistoric planet did the first, but as we know, still hasn't called birds dinosaurs

I'm just. So. Tired.

[a-dinosaur-a-day]

Hi! I've seen you discuss many TV series - such as Walking with Dinosaurs/Monsters/Beasts, or Prehistoric Planet - but I don't think I've ever seen you comment on Planet Dinosaur. If you've seen it, I'm curious as to what you thought about it?

As a non-expert palaeo-fan, who has learned much of what they think they know about palaeontology from TV (alongside books), I really appreciate your insights.

It's... extremely awesomebro

everything's a "killer"

birds are dinosaurs until the mass extinction and then they're magically their own thing

focus way too much on dinosaurs fighting than any other kind of behavior

sensationalist language

etc.

[a-dinosaur-a-day]

(Prehistoric Planet person) thanks! And it's okay to take all the time you need, obviously <3

My first question is: how do you feel about it being set in the Late Cretaceous period only? While it is my favourite, I also think it's a little lacking. For example, we only get to see titanosaurs this way. I'd like to see some other sauropods! I want to see what they'd make of Amargosaurus. But, in terms of the narrative, I get why they stay in one period during an episode, at least. So I'm just wondering what your thoughts on that are! Esp if you have time period you'd like them to show.

I also wondered about the bit in the North America episode where the Styginetta are called "duck relatives," but then seconds later the script mentions "but there are also dinosaurs here." It annoyed the crap out of me for the obvious reason of. Well. Birds are just as much dinosaurs as troodontids. So why on earth would they separate the two? Is there a reason? Or is it the face-value slip-up?

Along that line, are there any mistakes that you think they made? I know it was well-researched and all, but surely there's points still to be disagreed upon, right? Or was it overall well done?

Those where honestly my big questions. I thought I had more, but that's kind of it. I guess to end it off I could ask if there's a dino you'd like to see show up in there? (Personally, I want to see Panoplosaurus or Borealopelta :D)

Thanks for taking the time to answer me!

So I get completely why they went with just the Maastrichtian. The whole series is supposed to be "Planet Earth" or "Blue Planet" but at a specific point in the past. All of the animals were, more or less, contemporaneous. So they're trying to show a "snapshot" of the Earth 66 million years ago, as if they were doing Planet Earth then. The whole series reads very much like that - Planet Earth, but 66 million years ago. There are downsides to that, like not highlighting things that existed in other time points, but it makes sense to me. I just want other time points to get similar treatments! Especially because the animals of the Maastrichtian are some of the more famously known prehistoric animals (T. rex, Mosasaurus, Triceratops, Quetzalcoatlus...). I'm hoping the amazing success of Prehistoric Planet leads to more series in other time points. I personally think we need a Triassic series, pronto. It's a weird time period that very very very few people appreciate properly. Selfishly, I'd like a Paleocene or Eocene series, so I have even a 1% chance of getting consulted.

I know the whole story behind the bird-dinosaur snafu with Styginetta, and its not a happy one. The main science consultant on the series, Darren Naish, is one of the leading pioneers in "treat birds like regular dinosaurs you fools" movement - frankly, I learned a lot of what I know from him. He wanted them to acknowledge Styginetta as a dinosaur. It was higher up execs who put the kibosh on that. They literally said no, they would not call birds dinosaurs. The excuses given were crap - something about being accessible to audiences - but we all know that's bullshit. Walking with Dinosaurs called birds dinosaurs in 1999. Jurassic Park called birds dinosaurs in 1993. I don't know what their actual reason is, but whatever it is, it's a bad one. I'm going to blame capitalism and shareholders until proven otherwise. I recognize this sounds like I'm spouting conspiracy theories, but it's not a conspiracy if people involved openly admit this is what happened! Like... damn. this is why scientists and artists suffer - meddling capitalists.

Overall I have very few complaints. I think there could have been more emphasis on the fact that many of these behaviors are our *best guesses* - like, well thought out hypotheses, many even tested, but not fact. In any dinodoc, a lot of the uncertainty about paleontology goes out the window for the sake of storytelling, and that's why I think making of/the science behind features should be part of every dinodoc, not a side note or a podcast or something. They kind of did that in s2 by having the science segments at the end, but that only went into the research for one behavior per episode - not nearly enough to show everything. If people understood more how science works and how research works, we'd have fewer problems... and that's a perfect way to show it to people. Other than that, most of my critiques are really and truly nitpicks, or something I'd want them to show that they haven't, that kind of thing. But honestly, its the best depiction of the Maastrichtian I have ever seen.

I'm personally irritated we haven't seen Thescelosaurus. It's not just a generic bipedal ornithischian! That thing was WEIRD. First of all, we know more about it than most nonavian dinosaurs because we have lots of great fossils. Second off, it had armor on its belly!!! We think they kicked each other like Pachycephalosaurs butted heads!! WHY IS THAT NOT IN A DOC??? Third off, it was just an important component of Hell Creek, which we've now seen in multiple segments, and yet... no Thescelosaurus... wtf, amiright?

And you are very welcome!!! I'm glad I could answer it now :D So yeah, I love PP, but it's not perfect, and there are things I would fix if I could ^_^ That said, huge shoutout to Darren for making this happen. The man is a hero for us all.

[a-dinosaur-a-day]

Also! Sorry that I'm spamming you but I just watched the last episode of prehistoric planet 2 and when the old sauropod died I got rather sad! I always thought herding dinosaurs might have some mourning instinct, like elephants or corvids. Do we have evidence one way or the other?

I got sad by that but at the same time it was nice to watch a prehistoric creature die of old age? something we know happened and yet is rare in dinodocs?

that said, unfortunately that's the exact kind of behavior that doesn't fossilize

[ifuckinglovedinosaurssomuchjesus]

We return to the baby ammonites we saw earlier and I love it. The life cycle of ammonites is something never explored in dinodocs, they're always just background filler, it's so refreshing seeing them depicted as unique and interesting in their own right.

I adore this whole segment, the music is immaculate, I love all the sci-fi noises as we go through the wonderfully weird world of ammonite shapes and THANK YOU for actually identifying them to the genus level this time!

We end this segment with a look at the adults of the babies we have been following, identifying them as Nostoceras, the weirdest of the bunch. 

The pan over the grass beds, seeing all the ammonites as Attenborough praises their success, it's just so beautiful.

[a-dinosaur-a-day]

#ugh#yuck#look i know studios' whole thing now is just redoing the same shit over and over#but seriously how many more times are we going to do cool scary dinos graphically mass-extinctioned MAMMALS WIN#and slapping the word “documentary” on it?#especially bc they don't even really mean mammals win they're just a shorthand for future-people#if i'm going to watch a documentary about dinosaurs i want you to tell me about DINOSAURS#yes yes we all know about the fucking meteor#🙄🙄🙄#prehistoric planet is an actual documentary about the Animals#and that's why it's good!#tell me more about how carnotaurus's arms could've been a mating display!

EXACTLY. Hence Prehistoric Planet will continue to remain top of the dinodoc list for now, I bet.

One thing that generally annoys me is when people say “evolution is just a theory”. BISH WE HAVE AT LEAST 70 YEARS OF PROOF! There’s the fact that there’s basal ceratopsians and then there’s Triceratops and Diabloceratops as an example of evolution.

We have so much proof it’s incontrovertible. We’ve watched COVID19 evolve in real time.

We know more about evolution than about gravity.

[rabbitfootjack]

That biggest-- STUPIDEST-- fucking grin is on my face rn!!!!

SO THIS IS A THING