#different from fanon popular belief

[silver-stake-through-the-heart]

Fanon: Dean has so much internalized homophobia he needs Sam Thee Stanford™ Boy to explain him it's not bad to be queer and Cas to be patient with him through several freakouts. Also, he's so afraid to be seen as anything other than a Manly Man he can't stand being associated with anything seen as feminine.

Meanwhile, in the show (a very few selected examples because there are tons of them):

Sam: Huh, interesting look for a centuries-old witch.

Dean: Yeah, well, if you were a six-hundred-year-old hag and you could pick any costume to come back in, wouldn't you go for a hot cheerleader? I would…

-4x07

-5x08

-7x12

Sam: You got to stop calling yourself "The Meat Man". It… it doesn't mean what you think it means.

Dean, coffing: Yeah, it does.

-15x04

[almightygremlinblob]

Sukuna Ryomen HCs - Canon & Fanon!

CONTENT WARNINGS: Unbeta'd. None, for the first part - which may as well be a part character analysis of sorts along with hcs. Under the cut is when stuff gets weird. So minors and those uncomfy with anything remotely sexual don't click the "Keep Reading" and just scroll past! Will put another warning, tho, just in case.

Personally I LOVE Sukuna's true form, but these can be read as any of his forms (except for the tummy mouth stuff, haha).

Word Count: 1694

Sukuna HCs - Canon Sukuna

1.) Aromantic, Asexual and sex repulsed or; Demiromantic, Asexual and sex repulsed. Listen. Has never done anything to Uraume (MY LOVE) - well, that we know of, anyway. Yorozu, beautiful, beautiful Yorozu, hugs him completely nakey; no reaction AT ALL. Kenny sleeps with his brother and it's "Kenjaku does the grosest things." Come on. 2.) Contrary to popular belief, I don't actually think he's super arrogant. He just STRONGLY believes that the weak should eat their suffering at the hands of the strong - and he's at the top of the food chain. All that smirking during the fights, talking down his opponents and just generally toying with them, completely lines up with his worldview. Even when he converses with Yorozu about her conditions for winning, he says that she can do whatever she wants with him because if he loses, that's "akin to death" and she proves herself stronger than him - again with the previous point. His worldview doesn't exclude himself just because he's been given the title of the strongest, unlike a lot of arrogant characters who think they're exempt from the rules they "follow". Sukuna seems to be…like a whole lot of neutral, as long as it lines up with his worldview. When it DOESN'T (ahem-his soul nephew-ahem), then he begin to lose it. 3.) Speaking of, he's obsessed with Jujutsu and honing his craft, having good food and a good fight - it's all he wants. Sukuna doesn't care where he stands at the food chain, he'll accept if there's an opponent stronger than him and die happy, and if it's weaker but puts up a good fight then he'll kill it and still be happy. He's living moment to moment, doing what makes him happy, poking at whatever interests him and living his life according to his values. (Sounds good on paper but ALSO just sounds like he's chasing the next "high" as long as it comes from an opponent that lines up with his beliefs). 4.) Is a wonderful artist and poet and, much like traditional Japanese painting (which is surprisingly close to Chinese painting), he prefers ink for his works and calligraphy, charcoal, too. He would have plenty of it back in the Heian era. 🙃 5.) UNWANTED. As a child he was unwanted, as a sorcerer nobody liked him or working with him (also because he was tricky to work with - essentially using the other sorcerers to get the upper hand in battle), curses tried to stay clear of him, and even when he was worshipped nobody wanted to do it - they only did it to get on his good graces or get something from him. Sukuna may have been a king, but he was an unwanted one, all the same - an unwanted king who sat in his empty temple. 6.) Views Jin as simply part of himself, because by Jujutsu standards that's the case - twins are considered one - and the Jujutsu world is heavily tied to his worldview. However, Jin himself is a completely different person; personality, physique and all. 7.) Hates modern food. Just…hates it. From the meat, to the veggies, to the spices, to the PEOPLE. It tastes SOOO BAD to him. Everything's become more abundant but at WHAT COST??? Quality of the food is out the window completely. Only Uraume can make something decent out of everything (leave it to our favorite chef). Because most animal meat was prohibited from consumption in the Heian era due to the influence of Buddhism (as far as I know), he had a lot of those to choose from back then. One of the dishes he did eat frequently, though, was Hishio with rice and some kind of meat (any he had access to at the time). 8.) Loves fighting because that's when his worldview IS a reality. It's only win or lose, the strong or the weak…AND THEN THERE'S YUUJI- 9.) Given the themes surrounding his character, and Yuuji's, actually, the quote by Alfred Lord Tennyson comes to mind; "Tis better to have loved and lost, than to never have loved at all." 10.) Generally doesn't like to be stared or looked at unless it's in a fight - he's had plenty of staring and hushed whispers back in the Heian era.

Sukuna HCs - Fanon Sukuna x Reader

These are not specified to be romantic or platonic, and can be read however you'd like. Reader's gender or sex is not specified.

1.) Expect stern, gentle and very QUIET comfort from this guy. Sukuna isn't one to coddle, and he might even be annoyed if you're crying. If he isn't wordlessly wiping your tears away, he'll be softly chastising you for crying over "someone so insignificant" or "a situation you can easily handle". He's not trying to belittle your problems, not at all - he recognizes your strong points, where they are, and he just truly KNOWS you can handle whatever it is you're facing. It's less "Stop being so dramatic, it's annoying." and more "What are you upset about? You can handle this easy…" 2.) Doesn't like grandeur displays of affection, it reminds him of all the (frankly fake) worship he recieved in the Heian era. He appreciates small and meaningful gestures SO MUCH more. Likewise, he also gives small and meaningful gestures to his favorite person; a poem, a painting, good food, letting your touch linger, letting you stare at him. Don't talk down on him or about him, though, and keep the teasing to a minimum; he does demand some level of respect. 💜 3.) As stated before, he's obsessed with Jujutsu and honing his craft, having good food and a good fight - it's all he wants. But then you come along and make days without that…somehow bearable? And then somehow he begins to seek out your company. And then somehow, he feels anxious and as if something's missing without it. 4.) The tummy mouth WILL purr, but it's more of a low and content growling than a cat or cheetah's purr. 5.) Sukuna doesn't like to be looked at, although your gaze doesn't bother him as much. However, he does NOT like it when your attention is on someone else when you're with him - even if you can't look - he needs to know your mind is ON HIM, still.

Alright you know the drill. Minors and anyone uncomfy with anything remotely sexual DNI further, and just scroll past this. Don't click the "Keep Reading" if you don't wanna see all the romantic or sex-y stuff, and just go on with your day furendo!

Fanon Sukuna - Romantic & Explicit

⚠️Further Content Warnings:⚠️ Soft Sukuna, Sukuna fluff, Virgin!Sukuna, Whiny Sukuna, as usual Sukuna writings = food metaphors.

1.) Falls first, face first, and falls HARD. Was in complete denial because "love is trash" but this feeling is…actually NICE??? Actually makes his days better??? For once he's not bored out of his mind (and nearly to insanity) when he's not fighting or eating??? 2.) Virgin. Guy is inexperienced with all genders and sexes. Listen, as much as I love King!Sukuna and his favorite concubine trope, I'll have to do the 180 here. The guy probably never touched anyone in his life - cuz he also didn't want to. Why would he, when all the women and men offered to him were sacrifices from families with ulterior motives, and who were, themselves, harboring alterior motives, too? Nobody actually wants to be with him - he was an unwanted king, with followers who only bowed to get on his good graces and GET SOMETHING from him. Why would he want what they were offering? 3.) This guy has never been this close and intimate with anyone in a way that's not TRYING TO KILL EACH OTHER, and it takes him quite a bit of time to get used to this. It's all so overwhelming the first few times; the emotions, and the pleasure of it, and the fact that he's being so vulnerable with YOU. However, once he starts to get more comfortable, then he gets more eager and if we've seen anything about him - it's that he's a fast learner. Starts to pick up on what feels good for the both of you. Starts to look forward to it, too. 4.) He'll tease you - of course, but all the same he'll growl and whimper and plead for you, too. Yes, the tummy mouth will also growl and whine. The sweet noises he makes are reserved for you and only you. 5.) He WILL lick and taste your skin, let his teeth dig softly into your flesh but never biting too deep to break it - it's his favorite thing to do. Remember how he can manifest multiple mouths? Yeah, he's absolutely doing that to taste you more. 6.) His kisses, once hesitant and dare you say - shy, become passionate. Way too passionate. It's overwhelming. His tongue tastes every part of your mouth he can, gently biting and suckling and licking your lips (your neck, your shoulders, your wrists, your SKIN in general...) as if to drain the blood from them, hands roaming your body and kneading the soft flesh. Every part of you like a feast he can almost eat. 7.) Slow and intense lovemaking; almost violent in a way that feels like he's trying to literally devour you. 8.) Does NOT like your attention elsewhere and WILL NOT share you during lovemaking. Think about him, not someone or something else. Be with him, not elsewhere. Look at him, and only him.

.

GOD is it difficult to be a Sukuna fan sometimes - especially if you like other characters, too. Especially Gojo and Yuji...coughs awkwardly. Well that'd be just terrible now wouldn't it?

[theglamorousferal]

So if you’re new to the Danny Phantom fandom whether that be because you have joined us via a crossover, the new graphic novel coming out or just somehow got hooked into this fandom there are a few things you should know.

90% of content you will see is purely fanon lore.

I’m gonna divide this into two different sections, going over what is canon and then the most common things from fanon.

So if you go by the show, we have at least three different kinds of ghosts. We have ones like the Fright Knight who is a spirit formed from the feelings and beliefs of people surrounding the thoughts of Halloween and we have ones who were once humans like Sidney Poindexter and Desiree. There are also some who are the product of two different ghosts like Box Lunch. We technically also have the Ancients, but we don’t know anything about them except that they existed many years ago and then they enclosed Pariah Dark in the Sarcophagus of Forever sleep.

We know that a high concentration of ectoplasm introduced very quickly can causes human to turn into a half ghost. This happened with Danny at least 3 times, and the accident Vlad had (as well as Jack in an alternate timeline). Danny was changed twice by the portal and then once by being blasted by a bunch of ectoplasm.

In canon, the Fenton parents are very loving parents with just a bit of absent mindedness to them that leads to them missing the obvious signs that something is up with Danny. Every time in the show that he is exposed to them, he is accepted by them entirely. Even when in an alternate timeline where his parents never got together, he is accepted by them.

In canon, Jazz started out not knowing how to help Danny, Tucker and Sam, but it is shown in the show that she trains to be better later on. She still calls the ghosts by things she designated them as though, not how they would like to be called.

In canon, Vlad is awful. He regularly tries to Hamlet the main character. He tried to ruin/kill Jack to get with Maddie and make their kids his kids many, many times. He cloned a child, gaslit the clones into thinking he cared for them and then planned to melt them down to have his “perfect son”. In canon of the show, Vlad is not redeemable. (This sorta changes a bit in the graphic novel, but it’s a toss up whether that is actually considered active canon or if it’s its own canon now.)

In canon, Tucker is a genius after he was forced to sit through 12 hours of study programming. In canon, he is the reincarnation of a Pharaoh. He can speak a made-up language, Esperanto, and can hack into nearly every piece of tech he comes across.

In canon, Sam is obsessed with all things goth and so has tomes about magical beings and artifacts. She is athletic and is always ready to throw down. She only has plant powers in the episode “Urban Jungle”.

Now onto the Fanon, at least the most popular headcanons that I have come across.

The most common thing among the fandom is that Danny is half-dead. Some have him a ghost possessing his own corpse. Some have him be Schrodinger’s boy. Some have him have lower vitals or just no vital signs altogether. He is said to have died and not come back all the way or right. Common things have him be cold to the touch, a lower heart rate, and him forgetting to breathe entirely.

Probably the second most common headcanon is that Danny is the Ghost King after having fought and defeated Pariah Dark in single combat. Ways he takes the throne are varied, everything from him being forcibly put onto the throne and unable to go to the human world, to having to name Jazz or Maddie as regent until he reaches either human or ghostly majority, to him taking the throne but it being more of a figurehead thing. Most stories will have him have a plethora of titles and names he goes by. Along with this he now has a lair inside the Zone, most have him taking over Pariah’s Keep and some do have him have his own new lair.

Another popular headcanon is Ancient of Space or the Balance Danny (going with AGIT, the balance actually is now canon). These lead to things like Danny having an eldritch form. Something that is obviously “other” and hurts to perceive.

Both of these result in an OP Danny and probably around half of them will have him stuck at 14 and/or functionally immortal.

Another very common DP headcanon is Bad Fenton Parents and that their research caused the GIW’s formation. Alongside that come the most common type of fic you will come across which is where Danny has been captured by either the GIW or his parents and then is vivisected. Majority of them will have him vivisected by his own parents. Many of them will have them be varying levels of neglectful, from just not noticing things about their kids to straight up forgetting they were there and Jazz having to take care of them both.

In most fanon, the GIW are actively trying to genocide an entire species. This is closest to a canon thing considering that they did try to nuke the GZ, which would have resulted in their universe also collapsing. The things that some people write/draw for the atrocities the GIW and Bad!Fentons are things that I bring up to my therapist frequently. Be prepared for descriptive gore.

There are a few characters that have spawned in fanon that are widely accepted as canon characters now. The main one is Wes Weston along with his brother Kyle. Wes Weston was a background character that we see for about 3 frames in one episode, but he looked similar to Danny and had green eyes and the fandom latched onto that. It started out with someone claiming the A-listers would think that Wes is Phantom because he’s athletic, had the same build and green eyes. From there, the fandom has decided that he also is the only person to figure out that Danny was Phantom and tries frequently to expose him. Kyle Weston is Wes’ older brother, in the same class as Jazz and he doesn’t believe that ghosts are real and is played for gags a lot.

Another major piece of fanon lore is ghost cores. This stems from a remark Frostbite said talking about Danny’s core temperature and the fans took it and ran with it. In fanon there’s all kinds of different types of ghost cores, usually an element or an aspect of existence. Many have Danny possess an ice core, in some he has a space core. Others take his “death” into consideration and believe him to have an electric core. Commonly people have Vlad have a fire core. Usually cores are an orb that a ghost can retreat into to heal. If the core is shattered, the ghost is ended and no longer exists in any capacity.

Similar to cores is obsessions. These are essentially the purpose of the ghost, their drive and purpose. Skulker’s is hunting, Ember’s is recognition etc. Most give Danny a protection obsession, but will sometimes give him a space obsession.

Something that has gained traction in the last few years (to my knowledge mostly since the pandemic) is liminality. Liminality is where people are contaminated with ectoplasm due to overexposure or ingestion of it and it gives them ghostly abilities. Different people have liminality give people different abilities. Some have glowing eyes, lengthened canines and pointed ears. Some have enhanced senses, strength and speed as well as extra durability. Some have eyes that reflect like a cats and night vision. Some even go so far as give them at least one of the major ghostly abilities.

How someone becomes liminal differ depending on if the writer wishes to have it just be main characters or if it’s the entire town. If it’s just main characters then usually their frequent exposure to ghostly things as well as close proximity to it makes them liminal. For the whole town people will usually have the portal give off essentially radiation or when the town was pulled into the GZ be the cause.

Frequently Sam, Tucker and to a lesser extent Jazz are given extra abilities. Sam usually has residual powers from her time possessed by Undergrowth, Tucker usually has some form of techno Nancy and Jazz usually has some sort of empathetic ability, if not that she get’s the basic extra strength, speed, durability and senses.

There are some lesser known ones that should at least be mentioned in case you come across them. One of those being ghost hunger. This is where ghosts or liminals thirst for ectoplasm similar to how vampires thirst for blood. Another common thing is that ghosts socialize by fighting. That most of the fights are ghosts greeting the baby ghost. The last thing is that the main characters are known as Team Phantom.

I’m probably going to think of more later and I’ll post when I do, but this is the basics that I could remember on the fly. I hope this helps people!!

[mdzs-fanon-exposed]

MDZS Fanon VS Canon: 5/?

Lan Wangji played Inquiry every day for 13 years

Rating: FANON - UNSUPPORTED

This belief is a big one in the fandom, since it's commonly held to be canon or implied canon. It's both romantic and tragic to think of Lan Wangji playing Inquiry for Wei Wuxian every day during his thirteen years of mourning, whether he thought Wei Wuxian would respond or no. Unfortunately (or fortunately?), there is no proof in the novel that Lan Wangji ever tried to contact Wei Wuxian after his death.

In the first place, Inquiry is the wrong method for to search for Wei Wuxian:

"Inquiry" was a famous song composed by the forebears of the Lan Clan of Gusu. It was different from "Evocation" in that it was used in circumstances when the identity of the deceased was unknown and there was no medium. (Seven Seas Ch. 5)

As Lan Wangji knows Wei Wuxian's identity, Inquiry is not applicable. There is another GusuLan method for summoning souls that would be more likely:

The song they played was called "Evocation." Using the corpse, a part of the corpse, or a beloved item of the deceased as the medium, the soul of the dead would come forth at the sound of the music. (Seven Seas Ch. 5)

By default, Inquiry would not have been Lan Wangji's soul-summoning song of choice. Even if we assume that Lan Wangji had to resort to Inquiry because he didn't have a suitable medium (e.g. Wei Wuxian left no body/Lan Wangji didn't have access to a "beloved item"), there is no indication in the text that he ever attempted it or Evocation. We do know that after the siege of the Burial Mounds, Lan Wangji "searched the mountain for days," which may have included one or both methods, but neither is specified:

Although he had found the unconscious, feverish Wen Yuan tucked inside the hollow of a scorched tree, he had found nothing of Wei Wuxian. Not even a bone, a chunk of flesh, or a frail wisp of soul. (Passage and quote above: Seven Seas Ch. 23)

Without a soul to communicate with, there would be no chance of Inquiry working. We as the reader know that Wei Wuxian's soul was intact and able to be summoned back eventually, but Lan Wangji didn't know that. Faced with his own inability to find Wei Wuxian's soul, the years of failed attempts from the major clans, and the assumption that an un-summonable soul must have been ripped apart or dispersed (Seven Seas Chs. 5, 7), it's incredibly unlikely that he would have continued to play regardless.

At best, we can assume it's possible that Lan Wangji played Inquiry briefly at the Burial Mounds, but there is no canon basis for the idea that he played it every day until Wei Wuxian was resurrected.

If anybody is big into fandom history and knows where this idea might have originated, please let me know! I'm curious and it would be an interesting addition to this post. I know that the Lan Wangji character song from The Untamed, "Bu Wang," contains this verse:

The qin plays in the Jingshi A song of inquiry, unanswered (Genius Lyrics)

If not the original source for the "13 years" theory, this official song may have popularized it until it was assumed to be canon to the novels as well as the drama; it wouldn't be the first time that something like this has happened.

[pinkeoni]

During his emotionally charged speech in the van, Will says one particularly potent line.

"When you're different... You feel like... a mistake."

This line is highlighted visually by the camera shifting positions to outside of the van, a shot that is only used one other time to punctuate the end of the scene. This line holds extra weight and the show wants you to know it.

I already made an analysis on the word mistake and what that means for Will, but I want to look at the word different, which feels emphasized in the delivery of the line as well.

"When you're [pause for effect] different..."

It's popular headcanon among st fandom that "everyone in Hawkins is gay!" which sometimes bleeds from into their belief of real canon. Sexuality headcanon lists suddenly are seen with an air of truth to them, and a number of fanon queer ships are accompanied with evidence of their supposed endgame status.

I realize that this is kind of a... weird post to make. I'm not really making this to tell people to stop doing something, this is more of just a rattling off of some opinions I've had for awhile.

I do wanna start off with the obligatory: Do whatever the hell you want. I'm not here to stop you from doing something or tell you that you are wrong for thinking that a character is gay or for shipping something. You are allowed to ship whoever you want, think whatever you want about any character, any ship I don't like I have filtered. But I'm also allowed to not like these ships, or disagree with how others view certain characters. Just as others are allowed to have and express their opinion, I'm also allowed to have and state my opinions on the opinion website.

I think the important thing regarding Will being different is the fact that he is different. As my good friend @karenchildress once put it, if everyone were queer, it would cheapen the message the show is trying to give. Sure, the show displays a variety of ways of being different, but being gay is, among other things Will has been through re: being taken into the Upside Down, is Will's way of being different in Hawkins.

And of course Robin is gay as well, and while there is some crossover, the lived experiences of a gay man is different from that of a lesbian woman, which the show does touch on. Will's story is part of an extended AIDS metaphor, and Robin struggles to gain the attention of women in a world that seems to revolve around the attention of men.

It might be nice to have a moment between Will and Robin, although that alone won't solve Will's problem, i.e. his belief that being different makes him a mistake. Cause that's the thing: the resolution is that being different is a good thing.

If everyone character were queer, this would cheapen the message. Suddenly the resolution isn't that being different is a good thing, but that he isn't different after all.

So then, are queer stories meant to have only token characters?

I think it depends on the type of story, and what it's trying to say. Heartstopper has an eclectic queer cast, but it's also a show that embraces finding community and other people like you. Sex Education has a variety of different sexual identities, but it's also a show that aims to explore a lot of different perspectives.

And there are also queer stories where the queer character's disposition, and their struggle because of that, is a big part of the story. I believe this is what this show is trying to do— highlight Will's difference and how that pertains to his personal struggle and the resolution of that.

One argument that I hear against Will with powers is the idea that making him more different would be bad for his character, because he hates being different. But the thing is, Will is going to learn that his differences are a good thing, which may include any possible powers.

Of course Will isn't the only one with powers, and he also isn't the only gay one. El, Henry, and Kali all have powers, and Robin, Vickie, and Mike (and maybe Henry? I haven't seen TFS myself so I'm not commenting on that) are all gay. So while he's not alone, these things are still a rarity. It's not a case of a headcanon list with mostly everyone gay and some token straights.

"Characters are not straight by default."

This sentiment isn't unique to the st fandom and also didn't originate within this fandom, but it is something that I hear often. And it's... not really true, although it kind of depends on the piece of media we are talking about. It might be easy to say this about a show made in the 2020's, although this same sentiment is hard to state about, well, most shows made before the 2020s. And even then, it depends on what the show is going for.

People being not straight by default is a true statement in real life. You shouldn't assume a sexuality for anyone, gay, straight or what have you. But characters are made by people, and people have different biases on how these characters should be written. Calling the Duffers "two straight men" would go against what I just said, although I don't think that the show was written with everyone being gay in mind. Aside from the 4 (maybe 5) I listed, the other characters are not written to be queer. They just aren't.

All of the queer characters have arcs that feature their queerness. Will's queerness has been mentioned since season one. Robin's romance becomes part of her plot in season 4, and Vickie is introduced as her love interest. Romance has always been an important facet of Mike's story since season one, and his failure in a straight romance is highlighted in seasons three and four. Chekhov's painting of season 4 seems to solidify a gay Mike.

Elmax and Ronance as endgame options not only have no lead up but are also mean spirited towards Lucas and Vickie. Elmax gets together, breaking up Lumax, which has been built up since season two, and Lucas is supposed to be okay with this because????? Ronance get's together, effectively writing off a queer character that the show had introduced, and she can't even fulfill the reason she exists in the first place? Rockie is not the most well developed relationship out there, but it's the one that the show has decided to go for. Maybe Ronance could work, in an alternate universe where the show actually wrote that in.

For those that argue that both Max and Nancy are queer I simply... disagree. And you can disagree with me too, we'll both just agree to disagree. I'm not against headcanons, which are usually harmless, but also usually driven by the desires of the headcanon-er and less so the canon of the show. Which again, is fine, but it's also these headcanons which are being used to drive an argument for actual show canon. Usually the argument for any character being queer that wasn't already listed in canon rests solely on vibes, not any concrete evidence that may suggest actual attraction to the same sex.

More substantial evidence usually comes when someone applies a queer lens to a certain character, but an interpretation can be different from authorial intent. And sometimes, the viewer may be so focused on the metaphorical, that they fail to see the literal.

I do think that you could easily apply a queer lens to El's story. Her story is about, in her words, "not belonging," in society, having to remain in hiding, and deviating from feminine norms. I can easily see how you can derive a queer message from this, but all of the traits listed above are a result of her having powers and being raised in a lab, not being attracted to the same sex. Metaphor alone cannot prove that she likes girls.

Going back to Nancy, Nancy's romantic options are between Jonathan and Steve, although the show seems to make it clear that it's going with Jonathan in the end, what with Jancy holding hands at the end of season 4. Steve get's brought up in conversation between the two, alluding two some unresolved tension that's likely to be brought up in season 5, and Robin is... at the high school with Vickie. That is the end of the season establishing the arcs and romances for the final season.

"Gay people didn't exist in the 80's."

That's an argument on the opposite end of things that just isn't true, although I've also heard the counter for this argument, that gay people did in fact exist in the 80's, as evidence that everyone is gay. I'm not really here to argue whether or not gay people existed in the 80's (they did) I'm just here to argue what I think the canon of the show is presenting.

That being said, the show taking place in the 80's is still significant. It may not be a hyperrealistic depiction of the 80's, but the show does seem to understand the idea that at that time, it was very difficult for gay people come out and to start relationships. It's the reason that Robin can't just go up to Vickie and ask her out, and it's the reason that Will can't just say that the painting is from him. It's the reason why Mike hasn't quite yet left his relationship with El and accepted himself. It's the reason why Rockie has to discreetly flirt through peanut butter sandwiches. A character who hasn't had queerness built into their plot, or a relationship that has no buildup, isn't suddenly going to become canon in the last season.

I was talking about this once with a friend who used the show Only Murders in the Building as an example. In the shows second season, Selena Gomez's character is revealed to be bisexual and dates a character that Cara Delevingne plays for most of the season. The show doesn't build up to her character being bisexual, she doesn't come out as such, the other characters don't make a big deal out of it, she just is. So why can this show do something like that but Stranger Things can't?

Well, Only Murders is a show that takes place in present day, and is a light-hearted comedy (albeit with murder). A character suddenly being bisexual with no set up makes sense for the tone that the show has established and when it takes place. Stranger Things takes place in the 80's and establishes within it's first season and maintains it throughout that gay people get killed and are seen as social pariahs.

It's not that I don't understand where the desire to have more characters be queer comes from, especially characters that people already like and relate to. I don't think it's harmful to think that these characters are queer, I'm making an argument purely with regard to authorial intent and the actual outcome of the show. Again, feel free to disagree with me and continue to do whatever you want, these are just some thoughts that I have had on my mind for a while and wanted to put out.

[svsss-fanon-exposed]

I really appreciate your continued emphasis on people being free to enjoy canon and fanon as they want while providing accurate canon information! All the asks and PSAs you've shared on that recently reminded me of a fic where sj actually WAS innocent, even wrt abuse. They had to make an a/n how it was their spin deviant from canon so it'd be great if they could stop getting nasty messages pls. I just think we should all foster a nicer fandom environment, so I love what you're doing~!

Yeah, I personally might be a book-canon purist, but I can certainly recognize that not everyone feels the same way-- and at the end of the day, it is fiction, what people want to do with canon and fanon is up to them and really has little to do with them as a person. I hold authorial intent in really high regard, but no need to bully those who don't, and who want to rearrange things.

Of course, for something like you mention, I would advise using some kind of tag to indicate that it's off-script. Especially since SJ's abuse of LBH is an integral part of the story the novel is telling, changing things like that changes the entire tone of things.

If a fic where the characters are intentionally OOC gets popular, then people will inevitably start going to that fic's portrayal and mixing that up with canon details (this is, probably, why there is so much apologism and denial of SJ's canonical abuse of LBH in this fandom, though it certainly wouldn't be the specific fic you're referencing alone and is probably a combination of many different factors). I personally don't like portrayals like this, but if a writer is changing it for their story, then who am I to judge or harrass them over it? The only issue comes when it spills over into the wider fandom perception, and you have people swearing left and right that SJ had nothing to do with the fake manual (he did) or didn't actually mean to abuse LBH or want him dead (he also did, and this can't just be contriubted to unreliable narrator since it comes from his own perspective in the extras). So I think an a/n at the beginning is a good idea in situations like these. If writers don't want to spoil things, just simply tag that the character is OOC compared to canon-- no need to go into specifics, and readers will know going in that the portrayal isn't meant to be a take on canon or aligning with it.

No one knows how popular their fic will become, after all, and if it gets into the wider fandom space without proper context, things like "Shen Jiu was just treating LBH normally for the time period, he wasn't abusive, LBH was just a self-obsessed person trying to demonize him" become mainstream, widely held beliefs.

Of course, this is what my blog is for, hopefully rerouting some of those ideas, pointing back to the sources where the divergence happened, so that people can see that while they may enjoy this canon-divergent depiction, that they shouldn't bring it into canon-based analysis. I think sourcing fanon is very important for this reason-- better than just saying "you're wrong" is being able to say "this is where the idea came from."

At the end of the day, a deliberately off-script, ooc portrayal should be tagged as such and AO3 provides those tags for a reason. There's nothing inherently wrong with writing characters OOC to change a story. People can write what they want! It's the writer's job to make relevant information known, and the reader's job to filter it out and just not read things they don't like. I'm so particular that I put down probably 80 percent of fics I read before I even get through the first few chapters. That's just me though! I'm a canon snob! Other people have no issues and that's fine.

As long as things aren't skewing into abuse apologism in regards to the canon-universe, there's literally no reason I can't just ignore things I don't like, and there's no reason other people can't do the same with things they don't like.

Anyway, don't harrass artists and writers in the fandom. If you feel it absolutely necessary to leave a comment in regards to an OOC character portrayal, don't be mean about it, just say something like "<Character Name> seems to be a bit OOC here, is this intentional?" but even then, it's really not necessary to come into someone else's space like that. Make your own posts, write your own fics.

There is no reason to assume malice when there are other explanations. This is hard with topics like abuse apologism, but people also need to remember that this is fiction. SJ was abusive in canon, but he's still not a real person, and if someone wants to write a version of him where he's not abusive, then that portrayal can easily be treated as a version from an alternate universe where things were different. This is not the same as saying a person in real life isn't abusive, because in this case, it's not apologism-- it's literally a different universe where the rules of the original canon don't apply. In fictional and fandom spaces, it's a lot easier and better off to just give people the benefit of the doubt.

As long as you're not claiming that his canon behavior wasn't abusive (since that's about behaviors now, and not just a fictional story), it literally doesn't matter what people write in fanfic.

Authors, tag your fics with everything you'd like your readers to be aware of, because when a reader opens up a fic they're probably expecting the characters to follow canon unless stated otherwise.

Readers, read the portrayals and stories you like. Don't read the ones you don't. If something isn't tagged correctly, and you find out you don't like it after reading, just close the fic and stop reading.

No one should ever be harassing anyone else over fandom for any reason.

[vulnonapixes-dc-corner]

I know that Genderbending isn't a real thing anymore, but I thought it would be fun!

Tim is my favorite batbro, so I started with him.

I chose the name Dorothy since it has the same ending as Timothy and a similar meaning. Other favorites were Tiffany and Theodora.

(Timothy: Gods Honor

Dorothy: God's Gift

Tiffany: Manifestation of God

Theodora: God's Gift)

As for her story/Timeline, I decided to throw a few things from Canon and Fanon together.

Her first memory was of her going to the circus when she was 4. Her parents had just come home from a business trip and wanted to spend some quality time with her. There she met Fanny (Female Dick) and saw the incident that killed Fanny's Parents.

She spent a few years in therapy after that.

Her hyper fixation with Batman and Robin when she was 6 after one of her live-in Nanny told her about them saving her from a robbery.

She just wanted to thank them.

At 9 years old she realized that Batman and Robin were her neighbors Bruce Wayne and Franziska Grayson.

This realization also started her career as a Baby stalker.

(The only reason why she was able to sneak out every night was because she played the role of the good and gentle rule-following Daughter to her Caretakers.)

She was 13 when she blackmailed Bruce into taking her as Robin after Jennifer (female Jason) died and Fanny wouldn't come back to Gotham.

Their relationship was rocky and cold in the beginning till Live decided to fuck her over.

At age 14 she had been captured and tortured by the Joker for a few weeks, resulting in her becoming Joker jr for months.

She only snapped out of it after her mother died and her dad went into a coma.

Despite popular belief and the fact that they spent most of their time aboard, she was close to them.

Daily phone calls and the writing of letters were their way of communication.

The Titans Tower incident happened when she was 15. (Her time as Titan started with her time as Robin)

At age 16 Lilith (female Damian) appeared and Bruce died. She became Red Robin and went on a wild goose chase to bring him back.

She laid down the mantle of the red robin and became crow after accepting Lilith as her family member/as robin.

Now to her relationship with the batfam:

Alfred: doting grandad vs granddaughter who has no sense of time and keeps on forgetting to visit.

Bruce: she still sees him as her boss, whilst he is the most parental girl dad to her.

Fanny: still looks up to her despite the feeling of hurt she still feels about her actions. Fanny just loves her little sister a lot but doesn't know how to apologize.

Barbara; she was her first celebrity crush and still adores her. Barbara enjoys spending time with her and they bonded over the whole "Joker ruined my life" thing.

Jennifer: they are surprisingly good. Dorothy used to look up at her and saw her as "her Robin". Jennifer apologized and all but begged for forgiveness after she broke out of the Pit madness.

Stephanie: Exes turned best friends. Their dating was just a try to name the close relationship that they had.

Cass: they are platonic soulmates. Twins from different parents.

Dara (female Duke): She sees her as the little sister that she always wanted. Dara wants to study her /jk. They often talk about comics and video games.

Lilith: She pittys her after having to deal with the league herself and tries to help her. Lilith hates that but has some respect for her after she brought her father home.

[kiisaes]

yes THANK YOU for saying it i hate those specific fanon nicknames as well. my other pet peeve are the terms 'bakusquad' and 'dekusquad' used in fanfic because i feel like those are okay to use in fandom discussion but the actual characters would NOT come up with those names much less use them unironically c'monn

SAMEEE these terms used in fics make my eyes roll fr. and I think the longer I've enjoyed mha the less bakusquad and dekusquad make sense to me anymore, even in fandom discussion

in the early days of mha fandom it was pretty normal to split up deku and bakugou bc 1.) not a super cool awesome amazing relationship at the moment and 2.) both of them were becoming friends with other members of the class (thank you season 2!!!). so if they were befriending different ppl then making two fanon friend groups seemed like the right fandom thing to do.

but fandom has always flanderized relationships pretty badly and mha, imo, is one of the most egregious examples. the loud majority of early fandomgoers were too scared of bkdk being connected in any possible way. they were abusive, toxic, evil, etc.etc.etc. and if you liked them then you fetishized bully/victim relationships. hence, in order to be a Good Fan, you had to separate them.

I fell for this belief back in 2019-2020 so I get it but like. it's crazy now. thinking about it. because horikoshi has Never meaningfully separated bkdk. they have always been joined at the hip regardless of how bad their dynamic was at any point in the narrative. in fact, this has been a core reason why bkg hated dk at the start. it's bc they literally could not distance themselves from each other 😭 idk. do you ever just think about how dissonant the popular fandom bible was to the Legitimate Canon Word Of Mouth.

there is no "dekusquad". there is no "bakusquad". it was a fundamental misunderstanding of the story to assume there are. bakugou has always been a part of deku's "squad" he just refused to admit it until recently. (he is also conveniently drawn in a lot of group illustrations with characters that are stereotypically a part of the dekusquad.) likewise some characters in these groups straight up don't interact anymore. anyway as of late mha has been prioritizing the Entire Class Of 1A as a singular entity instead of splitting it up into distinct factions.

I don't think the dekusquad and the bakusquad should be abolished, after all they're just typical fandom creations that get widely adopted because they're digestible and charming. if you like them then you like them! I don't dictate how you digest mha. but if you think bakusquad and dekusquad are still established friend groups that mean anything to the narrative and you navigate fandom discourse with this particular mindset I WILL look at you funny

ANYWAY THANK U ANON U GET MEEE

[genesisvirus]

I love, you're, jevins...yap for me if you wish

heheh. finally, time to yap about one of my favorites. i have alot of opinions about jevin, most probably different from popular fanon so kinda nervous, but we'll see.

-very VERY few people know what species he's mimicking, due to him always concealing parts that give it away, including behaviors. he is a jerboa tho.

-while all the main sprunkis don't have parents for one reason or another, jevin was in fact orphaned and raised by a cult that worships black. he does call them his "family", but they don't exactly have that kind of relationship with him and can't exactly be considered as such. he was raised under the belief that black was a force of good.. in some way.

-the cult believed that black was kind and showed mercy to those that love him, that he is something to be feared but only if you didn't fall in line. he did exempt children from this mindset (supposedly..), however once the child grows up they're expected to worship him too otherwise they won't receive any mercy either. that's why jevin's family tend to target and take in kids in order to convert them, and why they took in jevin.

-despite what he's been conditioned into, jevin usually keeps his personal life private, and doesn't really rope anyone else into the cult thing. it may be him subconsciously recognizing that something is up with it, or maybe he's just. private all around. who knows.

-that being said, he does take it upon himself to keep an eye on the others. while he doesn't want to get personally attached to anyone, in case they don't receive black's grace, he can't help but worry for them at times. he lets tunner do the more direct approach of helping the others, while jevin stays by the sideline and just watches over them, maybe indirectly assisting them with stuff like anonymously delivering food, locating missing items and putting them in areas they'd find them, walking with others during the night time (out of sight) to make sure attackers can't take the opportunity to sneak up on them, etc. only a couple of people know that he does this stuff.

-he rarely if ever talks, and most of the time others have only ever heard him when they're singing (aka his choir vocals), so most people assume he's either nonverbal or mute. he's not, but it is fairly limited what he can say, so he'd probably be considered semiverbal. he's usually short in his answers (stuff like "yes", "thank you", etc.), and has only ever put in the effort to vocalize more around tunner. and black. but we'll get to that.

-he has autism, however it's not diagnosed yet. his family sees it as him being "gifted" (in the ableist way. yes), so he's aware he's different from others, but not How. this does feed into the whole isolating from others.

-becuz of his problems, he doesn't always join in whenever everyone is singing. if there's too many people it gets overstimulating FAST. he's also mostly seen as odd, and really secretive, due to that + everything else talked about. while others do enjoy his company a bit better than wenda's, since he's not as overtly stand-offish and rude as her, he's still pretty outcast.

-while everyone else has barely interacted with jevin outside of singing, tunner, oren, pinki, and durple do attempt to be friendly with him. oren and pinki are just, kind in general, with oren already recognizing part of the reason jevin is "different" and tries to offer help in little ways, such as suggesting noise-cancelling headphones and keeping his own vocals down when jevin is around. durple is just mostly laidback, so while he doesn't pry into jevin's business, the two can usually chill in silence away from the others.

-tunner at first wanted to know a bit more about jevin, due to him being so secretive and the fact that he knew jevin was indirectly helping others. he mostly just wanted to make sure he didn't have to be cautious of jevin's intent. the two did start bonding when they accidentally ran into each other a couple of times (tunner practicing his whistling by himself, and jevin sneaking away from the group when overstimulated), and eventually it became routine for them to chill with each other when they needed a break from the others. they'd have conversations on and off, usually not super long convos, but still noteworthy enough considering jevin barely talks to anyone else.

-he has a soft spot for sky, and worries about the kid. the two barely, if ever interact with each other, however jevin tries to make sure sky is safe in little ways.

-he is tech-illiterate and doesn't know how to work a computer. he'll outright freeze up if he's forced to figure out a computer. he's slightly embarrass about it and so only tunner really knows about this.

-his religious faith is so multi-layered that he does get bouts of "i need to be pure and faithful No Matter What otherwise i deserve to burn". while he refuses to lose his cool in front of anyone, even tunner to an extent, he does go thru the mental gymnastics of self-loathing if he does make a slip-up.

-his faith in black was so sturdy, he put in the extra step in figuring out how to summon black himself, something his family hasn't fully figured out how to do yet. or maybe just didn't bother to attempt it. either way, he did find a way to summon black, bringing him into the mortal realm. while he was (inwardly) ecstatic to be able to converse with the entity, it slowly changed as they talked. not only did he get extremely bad vibes from the entity, but alot of the things black was saying made him extremely skeptical of the "kind and just god" lie he had been fed. eventually it came to a point where the rational part of his brain finally kicked in and told him to get out of there, running away from the entity he summoned and hoping he'd be trapped in the circle jevin made, something that was supposed to keep black contained. it didn't.

-he tried to believe that black just went back to wherever he came from, when he realized it was gone. he tried to ignore the feeling of being watched afterwards. he tried to ignore wenda and simon's odd behaviors, as he wasn't close enough to them to truly know if it was cause for concern. he tried to ignore oren going missing. he couldn't really ignore the sky turning red, tho. he knew what that meant.

-at first he tried to keep his cool, as his family had technically trained him for this day, and so he knew what to expect. those "blessed" by black, hunting down those that opposed or didn't believe in him. he was just not prepared to recognize the faces of those "dead", and realized that he had no clue if anyone else actually believed in black like he did. he had no clue if anyone he knew, outside of his family, would be spared.

-he eventually found brud and tunner, and they grouped up. tunner immediately was suspicious when jevin made the comment that brud must've been spared, and he pried into jevin a little bit, suspecting he had a better clue of what was happening - especially since he's being so calm about it all. that's when tunner properly found out about the cult stuff - he heard bits and pieces, but assumed jevin's family was just a bit more religious than tunner was. now there was confirmation there was something more sinister.

-the two did argue about it, but during it they both realized that jevin had no clue what he was summoning wasn't what his family promised, and what the true extent of the damage was. tunner knew that jevin wasn't a bad guy, and so said in no uncertain terms - if he didn't want more innocent people hurt and killed, he'd find a way to fix this. jevin agreed.

-eventually tho they were found by wenda, and while tunner tussled with her, she stole his gun and shot him in front of jevin. jevin had frozen in that moment, however wenda didn't even attack him, and instead left him to watch tunner die. he pretty stayed with tunner until he passed, trying to make the situation as comfortable as possible for tunner. it was only when he realized brud was missing, and that there was screaming in the distance, did he decide to get up. he wasn't fully aware of how exactly the "dead" were created, and had assumed tunner was properly Dead dead. if he knew tunner would reanimate, he probably wouldn't have left.

-the screaming turned out to be pinki instead, however he managed to help her get away from durple. once they were safe, he helped patch up the injuries on her face, and as of currently the two are surviving together.

-he does attempt to reach the "dead" and try to help them, get them back to awareness and everything. unfortunately blackhat and the others stop him before he makes any actual progress, although blackhat finds it amusing to watch him attempt to help them.

-he still keeps on a stoic appearance, especially after tunner's death, however considering all the guilt he's experiencing right now, he is very close to losing it at some point. the promise he made to fix everything is kinda the thing keeping him together. for now.

-like the wiki says, he does own an axe, and does have it in case of emergency. it's highly doubtful he'll use it. atleast for now. he doesn't want to cause the others anymore pain, but if there's a life or death situation..

[thevalleyisjolly]

I think part of what troubles me about the opinion that Maglor and Maedhros were the “best” people to raise Elrond and Elros is that many (though not all) such interpretations often refer to fanon interpretations as if they were canon.  Which there’s nothing wrong with enjoying fanon!  But when popular fanon starts being treated as a definitive canon and subsequently starts being used as a lens for textual interpretation and engagement (and in some extreme cases, an excuse for bashing other characters), that’s when it gets a little eyebrow-raising. 

So in this post, I’m going to examine some of the more common fanon beliefs and headcanons around Maglor and Maedhros as parental figures/guardians to Elros and Elrond.  The point is not to debunk them and say that you cannot interpret the texts this way or enjoy them as a fan reading.  Indeed, if there was no textual or analytical basis for these headcanons altogether, they would not exist.  Neither is this meant to bash anyone.  Rather, I’d like to show that many of the assumptions we hold are nowhere near as solid or definitive as they sometimes seem to be, and that there is in fact room for a plurality of different headcanons and readings to coexist without elevating one over the other.

1. Maedhros and Maglor were both involved in Elros and Elrond’s upbringing.

As the wealth of Kidnap Fam content demonstrates, this is a very common headcanon.  However, let’s look at what the Silmarillion says.  Bolding is mine for emphasis.

For Maglor took pity upon Elros and Elrond, and he cherished them, and love grew after between them, as little might be thought; but Maglor’s heart was sick and weary with the burden of the dreadful oath. (”Of the Voyage of Eärendil”)

Nowhere is Maedhros mentioned.  He is mentioned in the version of the story included in The Fall of Gondolin, where the passage instead reads:

For Maidros took pity on Elrond, and he cherished him, and love grew after between them, as little might be thought; but Maidros’ heart was sick and weary with the burden of the dreadful oath. (”The Conclusion of the Quenta Nolodrinwa”)

Christopher Tolkien’s commentary directly interjects after this to observe that the passage was rewritten to be the version in the published Silmarillion, which is an interesting distinction to make when the entire version of the story it comes from is very different from the one in the Silmarillion; it is also worth noting that apart from changing which Son of Fëanor it was, Tolkien kept this passage nearly verbatim in the Silmarillion.

Maedhros is also mentioned in the preceding chapter, in Tolkien’s sketch of the mythology, with the line:

Their [Eärendel and Elwing] son Elrond who is part mortal and part elven, a child, was saved however by Maidros. (”The Conclusion of the Sketch of the Mythology”)

So yes, there was once a version of the story in which Maedhros was the one who spared Elrond (Elros did not yet exist, at least not as Elrond’s brother, at this point in Tolkien’s thinking).  This version of the story differs quite significantly from the published version in the Silmarillion; as Christopher Tolkien comments, the Silmarils were of much less significance and had differing fates (Beren and Lúthien’s Silmaril was lost in the Sea after Elwing threw it in, Maglor threw another into a fiery pit, and the third was taken from Morgoth’s crown and launched into the outer darkness by Eärendil).  Also notably, Eärendil does not intercede on behalf of Middle-earth before the Valar.

Of course, being a Tolkien fan pretty much entails picking and choosing which bits of the Legendarium you like.  If you want to take Tolkien’s original thinking that it was Maedhros rather than Maglor who cherished Elrond and Elros, and mix that with the more common version of events in the Silmarillion, go wild.  You can say that the narrator is unreliable, that it makes logical sense for Maedhros to be involved, or that it’s simply more fun to imagine domestic shenanigans with the last two Sons of Fëanor.  But there’s a difference between blending versions of the story as your own personal headcanon, and asserting that headcanon as the one true fanon.

It is also interesting to observe that at no point are both brothers mentioned in relation to Elrond and Elros; it is either Maglor or Maedhros.  The version in The Fall of Gondolin has Maglor sitting by the Sea and singing in regret after the Third Kinslaying while Maidros saves Elrond; in the Silmarillion, it is only Maglor who takes pity on Elrond and Elros.

2. No one else cared about Elros and Elrond; only Maedhros and Maglor did.

Very explicitly in The Silmarillion, “Great was the sorrow of Eärendil and Elwing for the ruin of the havens of Sirion, and the captivity of their sons, and they feared that they would be slain...” (”Of the Voyage of Eärendil”).  But we also read:

Too late the ships of Círdan and Gil-galad the High King came hasting to the aid of the Elves of Sirion; and Elwing was gone, and her sons.  Then such few of that people as did not perish in the assault joined themselves to Gil-galad, and went with him to Balar; and they told that Elros and Elrond were taken captive, but Elwing with the Silmaril upon her breast had cast herself into the sea. (”Of the Voyage of Eärendil”)

Again, bolding is mine for emphasis.

What we see in the Silm version of the story is that 1) when Sirion was attacked, Círdan and Gil-galad raced to help but were too late, 2) a very large percentage of the population of Sirion died in the Kinslaying, and 3) those who survived reported that Elros and Elrond had been taken captive.  That’s it. 

True, there is no mention of any rescue attempts or negotiations, but there also isn’t mention of anything else because at this point, the narrative returns to Eärendil.  Which makes sense, because the voyage of Eärendil is the whole entire point of the chapter, and arguably the climax of the version of the narrative that’s in The Silmarillion.  It’s not “Of the Captivity of Elros and Elrond,” or “Of the Third Kinslaying,” the main focal point of the story is Eärendil sailing to Aman and pleading for all the people of Middle-earth.

There’s also another version of this story in The Fall of Gondolin, where we read:

...but the folk of Sirion perished or fled away, or departed of need to join the people of Maidros, who claimed now the lordship of all the Elves of the Hither Lands. (”The Conclusion of the Quenta Noldorwa”)

In this version, the survivors do not go to Gil-Galad, but either flee or join Maedhros who now claims lordship of all the Elves.  If you go by this story, then there really is very little possibility of a rescue, since 1) Maedhros is now the most powerful lord among the Elves and claims authority over all who are left, where would they even go if they got away, and 2) it would therefore be a betrayal to stand against or attack one’s lord.  It also opens up the possibility that Elrond (this is the version without Elros) had other survivors of Sirion around him while he was a captive, and was therefore not alone.

What all this means though is that we can headcanon whatever we like regarding what happens in Beleriand during this time, but we really don’t have enough information to definitively say what did or did not happen.  And what information we do have in The Silmarillion at least suggests that Círdan and Gil-galad cared about the people of Sirion and tried to help them, and also that the people of Sirion were not in great shape to be mounting any sort of attack on Maedhros and Maglor.

Also, just because someone who survives a horrifically traumatic mass murder which killed nearly everyone they knew does not immediately go out and fight for the well-being of other survivors, it does not therefore mean that they don’t care about them or that they care less than the perpetrators.

3. Maglor raised Elros and Elrond to adulthood.

This is another one of those instances where the absence of evidence does not make a positive.  We don’t actually know for certain how long Elros and Elrond were with Maglor.  In the early letter where Elros and Elrond are found in a cave, it is implied there that they were left there by the sons of Fëanor after they were taken captive, and later found by other, unspecified Elves.  In another version, in The Fall of Gondolin, it reads:

Yet not all would forsake the Outer Lands where they had long suffered and long dwelt; and some lingered many an Age in the West and North, and especially in the western isles.  And among these were Maglor as has been told; and with him Elrond Half-elven, who after went among mortal Men again... (”The Conclusion of the Quenta Nolodrinwa”)

This is also the version of the story where Elros does not exist and it is “from [Elrond] alone the blood of the Firstborn and the seed divine of Valinor have come among Mankind” (”The Conclusion of the Quenta Nolodrinwa”). 

Then there’s also this which Elrond says in Fellowship of the Ring:

Thereupon Elrond paused a while and sighed. ‘I remember well the splendour of their banners,’ he said. ‘It recalled to me the glory of the Elder Days and the hosts of Beleriand, so many great princes and captains were assembled. And yet not so many, nor so fair, as when Thangorodrim was broken, and the Elves deemed that evil was ended for ever, and it was not so.’ (”The Council of Elrond”)

What we see is that Elrond, at least, witnessed the end of the War of Wrath, including the breaking of Thangorodrim.  Then there is this passage from the Silmarillion:

Of the march of the host of the Valar to the north of Middle-earth little is said in any tale; for among them went none of those Elves who had dwelt and suffered in the Hither Lands, and who made the histories of those days that still are known; and tidings of these things they only learned long afterwards from their kinsfolk in Aman. (”Of the Voyage of Eärendil”)

In most versions of the story, the Elves who lived in Beleriand took part in the major conflicts of the War of Wrath.  Men do -“And such few as were left of the three houses of the Elf-friends, Fathers of Men, fought upon the part of the Valar...” (”Of the Voyage of Eärendil”)- but very clearly no Elves.  So Maedhros and Maglor did not participate in or witness the main battles of the War of Wrath, but according to Lord of the Rings (which I would argue holds the “most canonical” status over every other text in the Legendarium) Elrond was there to remember firsthand, if not take part in, major events in the War, suggesting that they were no longer together at that point (which does not preclude Elrond returning to them afterwards, though it would be a very tight timetable with the Fourth Kinslaying).

Returning to the original point, Elros and Elrond could very well have stayed with Maglor until they were grown, even up to and beyond the Choice.  They could equally have left Maglor and Maedhros at any point, or Maglor could have left them with their other kin.  Tolkien changed his mind a lot about the details of the end of the First Age!  There are a good number of different canons, to say nothing of opportunities for different headcanons. 

4. Elros and Elrond turned out to be great people which is all down to Maglor (and Maedhros)’s childrearing (and therefore they were the best possible people to raise them).

Hear the sound of that old familiar bell ringing again?  Absence of evidence one way does not mean that another way is automatically true!  We actually don’t have any information at all about how Maglor brought them up, only that emotionally, there was some element of mutual love in the relationship.  We don’t know for certain how long Elros and Elrond were with Maglor (a few months? a few years? all the way to adulthood?) and we don’t know how or what sort of things Maglor taught them or to what degree they absorbed those lessons.

Yes, Elros and Elrond became great people.  But there is simply too great a gap of information to correlate (either positively or negatively) all their future deeds and character to Maglor (and/or Maedhros)’s upbringing.  Not to mention, people are not only the products of the people who raised them.  So many people influence us on a daily basis, from friends to coworkers to enemies.  While Maglor (and Maedhros) doubtless did have an influence on how E&E grew up and who they became, it seems a little reductive to credit them as the defining factor in Elros and Elrond’s morality or greatness, when both of them (E&E) lived very long lives for their respective fates and met many people and experienced many things.

Narrative Analysis: What’s this about themes?

Textual analysis aside, there’s one other factor which I think is missing in a lot of these discussions, which is genre.  The Legendarium is full of tragedy.  Good people make bad decisions, or suffer (often unjustly) the consequences of another person’s decisions.  People are placed in terrible situations where there is no “good” or “right” decision, where anything they choose has tragic consequences.  Sometimes people make decisions believing that it is justified or for good, only to discover that it was very much the opposite.  Sometimes people know that what they are choosing will hurt them or others, but for one or many reasons, they do it anyways.

The point being that many of the characters Tolkien wrote are purposefully nuanced and tragic.  Yes, there’s a Dark Lord and some very terrifying spiders who are unequivocally evil, but otherwise, nearly every character is some shade of grey.  Characters make decisions with both positive and negative consequences; they exist simultaneously as figures of both heroism and antagonism.  In short, they’re complex!  That’s why they’re so compelling and enjoyable!

So why set up a dichotomy of “So and so is better than so and so”?  Rather than pitting the sons of Fëanor as “the best” in comparison to other characters, why not embrace the complexity of the narrative? 

In order to save the entire world, Eärendil and Elwing had to leave their young children forever.  They could have decided to go back and try to rescue their children, and in doing so they would have also doomed the entire world.  Whatever they chose, someone would suffer for it.  It’s a question that we see explored a lot in fiction but which most of us will never have to confront ourselves: if you were in a position where you had to choose between your loved ones and the fate of the world, which would you choose?

Maglor, a character who has acted almost exclusively as a follower throughout most of the narrative, for once realized the consequences of his actions and, crucially, took active responsibility by caring for and cherishing the children he kidnapped.  It does not absolve him of responsibility for the Kinslayings because children are not tools to redeem the adult figures in their lives, and in any case, it is a fruitless pursuit to attempt to moralize fictional characters existing in a very particular setting and narrative.  However, it is a significant moment in his character arc, especially as we afterwards see him begin to openly contradict and disagree with Maedhros, multiple times within the same chapter after being a relatively silent follower throughout the narrative.  Which makes it all the more tragic later when he slays the guards with Maedhros and steals the Silmarils because we know now that he did not want to, that he might have chosen differently, but ultimately he did not.

Maedhros knew that the kinslayings were wrong and repented of them, and did not attack Sirion for many years.  However, he still did it in the end.  *mumbles in V for Vendetta “I have not come for what you hoped to do, I have come for what you did do”* He did not kill Elrond and Elros, and in some early versions of the story, was indeed the one to save them rather than Maglor.  He also continued to kill in the name of the Oath.  Rather than isolating any one of these things as proof of goodness or badness, all of them work together as part of his tragic figure - a prince, once great, with good intentions, who has fallen to such a point in his life that all he can see around him anymore is death and despair.

(On a side note, Maedhros-Hamlet AU when)

Elros and Elrond were young children who survived a horrifically traumatic event.  They were able to develop some sort of loving relationship with Maglor (or Maedhros), and as adults, they took pride in Eärendil and Elwing as their parents.  Rather than pitting Maglor against Eärendil and Elwing, is it not more important that amidst the apocalyptic horrors of late First Age Beleriand, Elros and Elrond had adult figures in their lives who loved them and cherished them, both before and after the Kinslaying?  Love is not the only important thing in the world, of course, and it is not meant to justify any of the actions taken by the aforementioned adults.  But.  Amidst the tragedy of the broken world they lived in, they were loved. 

Summary: Headcanons are great and can co-exist with each other

Not to belabour the point, but there is really so much we do not know about the end of the First Age.  Tolkien changed and developed his thoughts on his world throughout his life, and even with what he did set down in writing, there are plenty of gaps where we can only guess.  That’s part of what makes the Legendarium so fun to engage with as readers!

With all that in mind, there’s nothing wrong with having a preferred version of the story or a favourite set of headcanons, so long as we acknowledge that they are not the only way to engage with the text.  Furthermore, fiction and fan engagement is not meant to be about the moral high ground.  Especially with the complex characters and world that Tolkien created, you don’t need to put down other characters or narratives in order to justify your preferred reading.  It’s First Age Beleriand!  To modify a parlance from Reddit, Everyone Sucks At Least a Little Bit Here.  Characters can have good intentions with tragic consequences, make bad decisions but have some good come out of it nonetheless, or do things which have both positive and negative impacts.

Eärendil and Elwing do not need to be horrible or unfit parents in order for Maglor and/or Maedhros to genuinely pity and cherish Elros and Elrond.  Those are separate relationships with no correlation.  And none of them need to be perfect parental figures in order for Elros and Elrond to have real loving relationships with all of them.  It’s not a competition for who can “best” raise Elros and Elrond or who loves them “the most.”  You can love Maglor and Maedhros as good parents!  There’s just no need to go putting anyone else down, or to treat it as the one definitive interpretation of the characters and the story.

[chaztalk]

I’m going to go on a little rant here but this “canon is canon” mentality isn’t as healthy as some of you like to advertise. There is a real problem with thinking nothing in canon is wrong. And, contrary to popular belief, it’s not for petty reasons. It’s because you are actively, and unabashedly, turning off a whole group of people trying to enjoy the fandom themselves. We now have a whole lot of fans that have differing views than us, and that isn’t a problem to us.

Regardless of your opinions on JKR, media literacy is important. People should be able to read and form their own opinions before being told what to think. Scaring fans away from fanon because you convinced them that canon is somehow better is bad.

And when these “fans” come on here to share their opinions that they’ve based off of the misinformation they’ve been fed (cough cough Harry finds Hermione boring cough cough), they will still act like they’re in the right even though they are wrong.

And because they can’t argue their case (what do Ron/Hermione, Harry/Ginny do in their spare time?), they will start to associate disagreement with hostility. They will go on the defensive - use the excuse of “what’s canon is canon” - and thus the cycle continues. No room for healthy debate. No room for conversation.

TLDR; “canon is canon” completely shut down the chances of any kind of productive discussion. It’s ruining fandom.

[silver-stake-through-the-heart]

Every time I read a fanfic where Sam knows about Destiel and Dean being queer, I'm like…

…since when Sam knows actual stuff about his brother? He's the first Dean's misunderstander and the first one to buy his façade. The whole season 1 is literally Sam saying "I didn't know that about you". And it carries on.

[crazykuroneko]

What I like about IWTV is it forces me to re-evaluate my relationship with media and fandom as well. Through S1, I learnt how far I want to distance myself from the media yet still be able to enjoy it (too lazy to link my old post, but it thanks to S1E5). Now, I find myself paying attention to the connection between the media and the fandom's "voice".

Back then, I went into S1 completely blind, and I have to admit I wasn't (am still, I think) that familiar with Black media, Black stories, or Black history. I literally didn't know even one (1) individual in the fandom. So a lot of my initial conclusions and impressions of S1 mostly came from what I saw on my timeline/dashboard aka the things people reblogged/retweeted the most, the "popular" contents. And as the time goes by, I realized those contents are actually fanon; They're made based on someone's interpretation and expectation of canon, and they get blown out, and they eventually shape the fandom's "consensus". And I found that to be so misleading. Especially in a lot of cases they're contradictory and feel like an overcorrection to another. And it took me like months of curating my own timeline - blocking and being blocked, applying my newfound distance with media, reading/watching opinions from different kinds of people and rewatching the series until I could say this is my core opinion/beliefs of this media and these characters.

And it's happening again this season. IWTV is a very rich story which is open to very different interpretations, and it's easy for you to just want to "go with the flow". Go with the metas you see the most on your timeline. But as much as I appreciate good metas, and I have shared them all here, sometimes there are nuances that I can't agree with. So, I don't want to read them too much. I feel like the writing in this show deserves to be judged as itself - free from previous fanon, book canon, theories or expectations. I don't really know where I am going with this actually, but I think "let the tale seduce you" is really the right way to process this show. Like, watch it, write down what you take from it, stick to what you wrote, and see how the show evolves your perspective. Anyway, idk, I'm just looking forward to rewatching S1-S2 and making my own conclusion.

[miiilowo]

Me me! I have so many questions about Afton but I'll jsut ask one. How far does his knowledge in robotics go? I thought Henry was the one who built all the animatronics, and that William was only a business partner who managed the accounting and all that stuff, but in Sister's Location he was the one who programmed Circus Baby so now I'm super confused

Sorry if it's basic knowledge for most, I'm still new to the fandom

hey no prahblem i got you covered

The details of the answer for this one will vary wildly depending on who you ask, but as a general baseline, youre both right and wrong. Henry was generally more knowledgeable on robotics, working behind the scenes, and William WAS more of the businessman + social relations type half of their whole schtick. This is partially due to their personalities (Henry being quiet and reserved and haunted looking, William being outgoing and charismatic and a bit weird) HOWEVER !!!!!!!!!

William's skill in robotics eventually DID surpass Henry's; either that, or William simply had more drive for it. There is a popular fanon belief (half-backed by evidence in one of the novels) that he was jealous of Henry, admired his skills in robotics, and purposefully decided that he needed to get better than Henry was. This is partially due to TSE bringing up that William had '...stacks of journals full of raving paranoia, [and] passages about Henry that ranged from jealousy to near worship.'

It can be pieced together based on other evidence in the novels that these journal entries about Henry were specifically referring to his robotics expertise, alongside stuff about his family, but we're focused on the robot thing here. William says on multiple occasions that he thinks his animatronics are vastly superior to Henrys, but also backtracks and sort of contradicts himself by saying that a lot of what he (will) has achieved was purely DUE to Henry.

It can get kind of muddy there, due to the novels getting into illusion disc territory (which, as far as im aware, are not canon to the games and will be ignored effective immediately) BUT we can easily assume that William is mostly entirely responsible for the funtime animatronics. This is for a lot of reasons, but these are the basic obvious ones:

they belong to the afton robotics label, NOT fazbear entertainment

baby is designed after williams daughter, elizabeth, and was essentially built for her as stated by the little lady herself

the blueprints having things in them that william would never let henry know about in one million years (having compartments to store bodies in + ways FOR those victims to be attained by the animatronics)

they have a very different direction than the robots we know henry worked on (mostly in how theyre built; endoskeletons are different, the plates, so on so forth)

william used the funtimes for the express purpose of toying around with remnant/possession. the dead kids from fnaf 1? theyre in there ! im like 90% sure theyre in the funtimes! (remnant is...strange. the souls can be kind of split apart and stored in different places its confusing and fucked. something something memories something something presences idonr.know its not worth trying to explain)

anyways. aside from that. even if we dont take williams WORD for it because im not sure hes the most trustworthy individual, it can be easily observed that the animatronics he worked on himself are leagues more advanced than most anything Henry created. the funtimes are one of a kind, and you can see across the board that anything henry had a hand in tends to stick to the same sort of frame. the og animatronics, the toy animatronics, spring bonnie, the mediocre melodies, the rockstars, so on so forth.

Williams own creations have....More. Going on. And it makes sense for them to, given how their motivations were very, very different; Henry wanted to make robots and entertain kids. William wanted to entertain kids. He also wanted to kill kids. He also wanted to be better than Henry. He had more of a reason to become more skilled, and so, he did. sorry that this is so fucking long btw i have a lot of. information up there

[greatwyrmgold]

Comparing Animorphs to Worm

The first comparison is my relation to the series. (Serieses? How do you pluralize that word?) I was obsessed with Animorphs in grade school, starting younger than my parents probably would have allowed if they were familiar with the books. (I knew the name "Scholastic" from these books before my first Scholastic book fair, which should tell you a lot, if kids these days still have Scholastic book fairs.) I was obsessed with Worm immediately before and during college, shaping the way I engage with fiction and fandom to this day.

That's one of the reasons I'm comparing the two series, but there are plenty of other comparisons. Their teenaged protagonists, their heavy subject matter, the stories framed in an almost YA format that slowly peels away like old paint over rusty metal, the planetary threats from outer space...

And of course, the characters.

The Heart

This might sound weird if you're used to the fanon versions of Cassie and Taylor—the former being a weak-willed hypocrite who's constantly whinging about whether they're doing the right thing, the latter being Chuck Norris if he was a war criminal and controlled bugs. But they're very similar characters.

Superficial stuff out of the way: They're both unpopular introverts with unusually strong connections to animals, and end up in a messy interracial relationship with their team leader.

Now onto their shared core. They both have a powerful moral compass, which slowly warps under the pressures of the violent plotlines they're involved in without completely vanishing—even when they commit acts of shocking brutality.

Cassie's character arc is relatively simple. She's reluctant to hurt anyone, even Yeerk soldiers and especially their Controllers. She's so reluctant that she leaves the team in the first third of the series. But she also comes up with a lot of really concerning ideas for the group, including David's fate (I'll come back to this).

As for Taylor? She starts out joining a villain team to help the local superheroes, and becomes the voice of caution and moderation pretty much immediately. She also comes up with some pretty brutal ideas for the Undersiders, albeit mostly ones she implements herself.

As far as this aspect of their characterization goes, the big differences is where their moral compasses go in the end. Cassie becomes more comfortable with the moral compromises required by war, but not completely comfortable. She's always at least a devil's advocate, but she doesn't start arguments every time the animorphs need to premeditate their violence.

On the other hand, Taylor falls face-first into moral decay, whittling away at her moral beliefs until she finds the unbending core that she refuses to compromise. And a big part of that is critiquing inaction as strongly as action. People who could have stopped something but chose not to are as culpable as people who actively choose to cause it. That's part of why Taylor is as ruthless as she is, in the "seeing the bright clear line that goes from motive to means" sense.

Both of them also have strong self-sacrificial tendencies. Taylor's are front and center (our girl is practically jumping at martyrdom from her first night in costume) but Cassie is also willing to sacrifice herself for her beliefs. She traps herself in caterpillar morph to prove her conviction to a Yeerk, which is a pretty serious sacrifice since she didn't know she could demorph after metamorphosis. (...yeah, for all its darkness, Animorphs is still a YA series.)

Oh, and they also have a strong friendship with the team's pretty blonde extrovert and its violent butch bitch. But for Cassie, they're the same person.

The Big Guy

Rachel and Rachel are both the most violent members of their teams, but their arcs go in different directions.

Rachel Berenson started as the pretty popular mall-loving cheerleader gymnast type, but started sliding into blood knight territory as she adapted to the war.

Rachel Lindt, on the other hand, starts out antisocial and violent, and she only starts getting friends and finding a more comfortable, less violent life after meeting Taylor (and, to an extent, the other Undersiders). Rachel climbed out of the pit that swallowed Rachel whole.

This comparison is a pretty obvious one...probably the only obvious one.

The Leader

We're getting to the part where it's hard to compare Animorphs to Undersiders; I don't think I have any substantive comparisons to make between the other halves of their team. (You could make comparisons between Marco and Lisa, or maybe Alec or Aisha or Taylor; Tobias turning into a bird is kinda like Taylor's cape escapism but they go different directions; and Ax is too literally alien to have a clean parallel with the earthly Undersiders, except maybe Alec.)

But I think there's something between Jake and Brian, beyond their shared status. For starters, neither one wants to be a leader. Jake chafes at the title of Prince, and Brian stubbornly refuses to take sole responsibility for the Undersiders. In both cases, this flattens their team's hierarchy. Jake and Brian help set the agenda and direct discussions, but they don't force their will on the group if they can avoid it.

They also care strongly about their family, especially their siblings, Tom and Aisha. They're putting their lives in danger in large part for those siblings—rather more directly for Jake, whose brother has a Yeerk in his brain, but Brian explicitly says he became a supervillain to provide for his kid sister. (Which is a lot funnier from an outside perspective, since both of their parents are alive.)

The big differences are age (Jake is 13-16; Brian is 17-18 pre-timeskip) and the scope of what they care about. Brian is very clear; he cares about his family, he cares about his friends, but the rest of the world can sort itself out. Jake, on the other hand, knows he's on a mission to save the world and acts accordingly.

But if Brian was a few years less jaded, and given the nearly sole mandate to defeat a threat to the entire human race...I think he could end up a lot like Jake. War crimes and all.

The Traitor

David and Cherish were both trapped just offshore by the team they betrayed, and their screams can sometimes be heard by people on the shore.

David's fate is a bit less nightmarish (he's a rat on an island instead of a brain in a box) and his screams are less deadly, but the fact that I'm comparing something the Animorphs did to something the Slaughterhouse Nine did should indicate how dark the books can get when they aren't engaging in instant maple-ginger oatmeal shenanigans.

If I reread the series, I could probably come up with more comparisons. But for one Tumblr post, I think this is enough.

[wordmoth]

Origin of the words "canon", "headcanon", and "fanon" in fandom spaces

Canon originated from the Church from slightly before the beginning of the 12th century. Early usage of the word meant the regulation or dogma decreed by a church council. Canon also refers to the texts that religious authorities accept and regard as scripture.

Note: Not to be confused with "cannon," canon comes from the Greek word kanōn, meaning "rule." Although canon has many different meanings, it most often means of "a rule or law of a church," "an accepted rule," or "a sanctioned or accepted group or body of related works."

In contemporary thought, the meaning of canon has broadened to include the works of a writer or any group of writings considered as accepted within a circle. The books and writers that are considered as belonging to the canon are almost always the subject of argument and tend to change with the times. But for the sake of fanlore, let's just assume this means the creator of the original media. Canon can also refer to the narrative universe that exists inside the "main" work. Fun Fact: Arthur Conan Doyle's Holmes stories were one of the first of its kind to encourage an analysis of a canon universe! This was because it was a popular series that maintained consistent details through each novel.

Headcanon stems from canon, of course. It refers to something that a fan imagines to be true about a character even though no information supporting that belief is spelled out in the text (or maybe you have "evidence", but it's not explicitly stated or acknowledged by a work's creators. There's a whole section on subtext I could talk about, but I digress.)

Sometimes that involves filling in your own explanation for a character’s strange motivation, or projecting aspects onto a character that make them more relatable to you. This is like if you choose to believe that Anakin was mind-controlled to kill younglings in Star Wars- that's a headcanon. A headcanon is a canon that exists only in your head.

The term itself came from memes shared on Livejournal and fan blogs around 2007. Headcanons are also prevalent in fan fiction, in which fans create whole fictional narratives based on another writers’ characters.

Fanon is a portmanteau (combination) of two different words- fan and canon. This is just when someone's headcanon becomes widely accepted across a fan community. Think of the Marauders fandom here.