#desires in specific rather than the societal expectations as a whole due to her insecurities in regards to ollie

[cloudeling]

dinah "id love to make babies with you but i won't make orphans" lance vs carol "don't you think its time we got married" ferris. both characters who find traditional ideas of womanhood (kids, marriage) uncomfortable and unappealing but the difference is their response to these feelings. dinah refuses to change her stance & while she feels insecure in regards to how this might affect ollie's feelings towards her & her relationship w him she still maintains confidence in her own conviction and refuses to back down. carol pushes back against these feelings and tries to mold herself into her idea of the ideal woman, literally splitting herself in two & excising the traits she sees as masculine/not befitting her role as hal's "perfect girlfriend" + her marriage proposal to hal being less because she wants it and more because its being pushed on her and she sees it as a necessary next stage in their relationship, regardless of whether its actually good for them. am i making sense

[kitchenalia]

i do wonder at times if the whole ‘mlm’ movement on tumblr (mlm aesthetics, mlm suggestions, etc.) was born out of heterosexual women’s anxiety and insecurity with heterosexual men. straight men are not expected (on a societal scale) to be loving, accommodating, and emotionally available partners, and women are often teased for expecting these things from men in the first place. take a straight woman who’s unconventional in some ways (a tomboy, believes she’s ugly, not “in step” with others, etc.) and this anxiety can become worse.

then consider the state of slash and m/m fanfiction on the internet. yeah, some of it is due to outright fetishization of gay men and thinking that they’re sinful and hot...but then there’s a lot of it that simply has to do with the emotional complexity of fictional males (who are often idealized as kind and at least sort of vulnerable, not violent or sexist like many real men). slash and m/m fiction portrays two men who, while they may have their differences at first, typically become emotionally open with one another. they accept each other as they are and treat each other as, more or less, equals.

would that not look highly attractive to a woman who is used to being told not to expect much from the men who would be attracted to her? does that not look better than her own prospects and make her wish that she, too, could be in a gay male relationship? after all, a relationship with two men in it is considered on some level to be more equal, and fiction portrays a lot of these relationships as far more emotionally involved and fulfilling than heterosexual ones. a straight woman who feels awkward or afraid of straight men might seek some ill-advised refuge in gay male relationships, not thinking about how it impacts actual gay men (because, after all, their main point of reference is fanfiction/fiction in general, not real life).

i don’t think it all comes down to fetishization, at least not to the extent that male fetishization of f/f does. i think the emotional aspect, and the understandable anxiety that straight women have about straight men, is a big factor here and might contribute to the sudden influx of heterosexual women who rather suddenly desire to be (specifically gay) men. a lot of the ‘mlm aesthetic’ blogs are full of words like tenderness, care, vulnerable, cuddle, soft, safe, et cetera...and i feel like this aspect of it could stand to be acknowledged a bit more, even if just because i think it’s important to be honest about people’s motivations instead of painting them all with the exact same brush.

[while this post is about heterosexual women, it could easily apply to bisexual women who call themselves gay trans men; i understand this is a complicated sort of demographic and that there are a lot of different facets to be discussed here. don’t take this as commentary on every single blog out there, but instead just a particular type.]

[the-cryptographer]

Ettushipping for the ask!!!!

Ah~ Thank you for asking about the OTP. I kind of figured I’d have nothing to say about it except repeating what I answered about polar and JouKai for the meme, but I shouldn’t have underestimated myself x_x  I also apologise, because it feels impossible for me to talk about them without talking about my fic project talking about writing fic instead of writing it so this might not be all that exciting mea culpa, but imma post - no obligation to pay attention to me - thankies~

when I started shipping it if I did:

In 2015, I was watching a lot ofygotas, feeling kind of bummed out, and looking through fanfiction. And I kindof had an ongoing interest in fmm and ffm polyships at this point, so I waslike, ‘okay, let’s smash my two favourite ships together and read all theMaiJouKai’.

A few minutes and some searchesaround the net later, I came to the tragic realisation that there /was/ noMaiJouKai. And then I was like, ‘fuck that. What has fandom spent the lastfifteen years doing then?’ and decided to write my own.

So I wrote a fic called On Public Relations and IndefiniteDefinitions which, instead of being the humorous longform fic I wanted toread, was some oneshot filled with Kaiba angsting about how he not only endedup with this moron, but he ended up with this moron that he’s kind of afraidwill leave him for Mai. It was also about the paparazzi, and the fact that Jouis Kaiba’s kind-of employee, and trying to understand where exactly we draw theline on somebody being a golddigger, and how to reconcile vastly differentlevels of income in a relationship. And, tbh, the fic is kind of shitty imo,but it still has some interesting ideas in it that are more or less ignored orunexplored so far as I’ve been able to see (and also it’s my humble fanficroots so I appreciate it for that).

I kind of dropped the fic and ran,and was going to just leave it at that. But then about a year later, due tomore ygotas and a sudden desire to revisit manga canon and watch the rest ofthe dub, I dropped back into the fandom and started revisting the ideas I’ddropped in my fic. I came to realise I really wanted to reuse the ship andbasic premise and try to write a fic where (1) Kaiba and Jou’s relationshipgoes from its approximate canon form with all the animosity to a romanceonscreen, (2) you’re given a lot of the factors commonly used to cause Mai& Jou to break-up except considered and explored in their own right in thecontext of Mai and Jou actually being invested in and feeling strongly for eachother, (3) Jou is working for Kaiba and the issues involved inemployee/employer relationships are laid out without an attempt to villainiseeither character, (4) wealth and poverty are not just having or not-havingmoney (something that could then easily be solved by Mai or Kaiba handing Jou acheck) but an entire relationship with money and employment and society andself-expectation and the cause of pretty severe cultural misunderstandings, (5)etc. etc. Yeah, this fic has way too many themes in it.  I mean, more than anything I wanted a ficabout Jounouchi’s entire existence postcanon – every single one of hisrelationships – and this ended up being a good way to do it. And, jeez, if thiswasn’t my OTP before I started planning LottoTicket, it definitely was after.

my thoughts:

idk, part of me is like, ‘you’rejust being really self-indulgent and forcing your two favourite ships into one,aren’t you?’ and then the other part of me is like, ‘but I don’t feel at alllike I’m forcing the characters to behave in any way that’s unnatural for them.I mean, I certainly commandeer the situational factors to make them moresusceptible to certain behaviour, but it doesn’t even feel very outlandish. Infact, the more I think about it, the more I think the ship as a whole couldease a lot of the individual tensions of its components.’

idk, I think the true answer is…both. It’s both indulgent and reasonable.

But I feel like I should say,insofar as my WIP is going, I’m not attempting to justify it as a ship thatwill last until everyone is dead, as much as I’m attempting to justify it assomething that helps brings stability to the characters during this ratherspecific period in their lives. I might eventually write something thatattempts to do more with the ship in the future, but I think those willdefinitely be more on the silly and fun and wholly indulgent side of things.

What makes me happy about them:

That Mai gets to travel and duel,Seto gets to have his company and its projects, and Jou doesn’t have to feel unsupportedand completely attention-starved in the meantime.

Also I’ve talked before about howSeto and Jou can pretty easily create a positive feedback loop for terriblebehaviour. I think having another person involved is one of the easiest ways tointercept that. It doesn’t have to be Mai, and it doesn’t have to be somebodyone or both of them are romantically involved with, but it does have to besomeone close enough to them, that they can witness the cause and effect oftheir behaviour on the emotional aspects of their relationship, and that Jouand Kaiba can’t just turn to and say, ‘buzz off, our relationship is our ownprivate business’. I think Mai and Jou, in different ways, both end upmediating quite a bit between Jou & Kaiba and Mai & Kaiba respectively.Kaiba less so for Jou & Mai, but I think, even in his presence, he canencourage Mai and Jou to consider when they’re being inattentive andunreasonable with each other respectively.

What makes me sad about them:

The amount of trickery I have to useto get them together, lol. I’ve tricked Seto into thinking Joey is gay andsingle. If he knew Joey was bi and had a girlfriend, I don’t think he’d beentertaining this idea for even a second. That’sright, Seto, let’s get you nice and overly invested ahead of time so you can’tdismiss the idea out of hand~

idk, everyone’s an insecure mess,but… even if I was writing for a more proper triad/threesome like miranova’settushipping, or battleshipping, or how I think most people talk aboutflareshipping, I imagine Seto at some point pitching a fit about how the othertwo like each other more than they like him. It is inevitable. It’s only amatter of how terrible the explosion is, and how well they manage to reassureeach other in the aftermath. So isn’t MaiJouKai as a V even worse because, ontop of all the personal insecurity, you’ve got a lot of societal messagingabout how you probably shouldn’t let yourself feel secure in letting your boyfriendsleep with someone else? idk, I see why Vs aren’t that popular in fandom.Before this I’d mostly shipped polyships where all the people were sexuallyinvolved. But I feel like, if you read a lot of OT3s, you realise how that mostof them are Vs on one level or another – it’s pretty naïve to think you’regoing to find two other people you feel equally strongly about in all theimportant™ ways, who are also going to feel equally strongly about you and eachother in those same important™ ways. Maybe it’s also naïve to think that aninequality in a sexual fashion is more profound than an inequality in anemotional one? I mean, /I/ think sexuality in relationships is one of thehigher ranked things in terms of profundity, but I don’t think everyone thinksso. Jou and Mai and Kaiba probably don’t agree with me or each other on thattopic – everyone has a different set of values, right? …I guess it makes me sadthat I don’t know whether or not they can make a poly relationship work incorrespondence with their expectations for a relationship – whether thoseexpectations are based on their own needs or on kind of a societalunderstanding of what a relationship should be – but maybe I shouldn’t say thatmakes me sad like that’s the end of the story either? When you are curious anddon’t know the answer – that’s a time when your mind is still open to newinformation and possibilities, right? You can let the characters bounce offeach other without an investment in the answer. That’s a fun place to writefrom.

things done in fanfic that annoy me & things I look for in fanfic:

lol, what fic? I liked Love Boat, although it’s more arrogantshipping than ettu.

Who I’d be comfortable them ending up with, if not each other:

I think it’s pretty clear I ship allthe people with all the people at this point. Anyone can end up with anyone andI’d be comfortable with it if it was considered with care.

My happily ever after for them:

I feel like it came up in a memeonce, or as a response to a fic comment, or something of that nature. Jou andMai and Seto are at some sporting event for their kid. Jou and Mai are theembarrassingly loud and enthusiastic parents who are ready to fight anyone thatsays their kid isn’t the greatest. It’s a hot summer day and Seto is wearing aheavy jacket and shades and being incredibly unemotive. He’ll save hiscongratulations until the end, thanks.

That’s a happily ever after of sorts, right?

who is the big spoon/little spoon:

idk, about spoons, but sleepposition headcanon is that Seto and Mai both like sleeping in the middle whenall three of them share a bed. It is the warmest and most comforting spot. AndI’ve already said that Seto is always cold, and Mai likes feeling safelyenclosed.

(Oh, god, Seto probably starts a riotthe first time Mai wakes him up and teasingly tells him to move because he’spopping wood into her stomach/thigh. For a while he refuses to sleep near herat all. And then for a while he refuses to sleep near her except with his back facingher.)

what is their favorite non-sexual activity:

For all three of them together? Sleeping. That’s aboring one though, lol. I think they like going to tournaments together, eitherwhen somebody’s competing or none of them are.

I think more they like doing things just the two ofthem though. I answered for Jou and each of the others, but for Seto and Mai –they probably go to gallery openings or something, or get lunch and talk shopabout work and talk smack about everyone. Mai’s an easy guest for Seto to taketo business party type things too. She’s all the charm and he can just sit nextto her and lean into her shoulder and zone out while she’s socialising.

:’)  Thank you again~